Jason Beghe, Scientology's newest critic; Norway joins the fray

I've been on a hiatus from the Scientology vs. the Internet story, but enough threads have been spun in the past week that a refresher is in order. 

First of all, there's the Jason Beghe Conspiracy (Village Voice), wherein the well-established character actor tells all about his none-too-enlightening experience as a Scientologist.   The video -- it's f-bomb laden so I can't link directly -- was picked up and widely circulated after it was published by venerated Scientology critic Mark "Wise Beard Man" Bunker on his YouTube channel. After Bunker posted the first part of the Beghe interview on YouTube, his 10,000-subscriber account was yanked.

The reasons for Bunker's YouTube suspension are somewhat Byzantine (Dawn at GlossLip tries to make sense of it, as do the forumheads at Enturbulation). It has to do, apparently, with an earlier instance where Bunker had used unlicensed video from "The Colbert Report." But the timing -- so soon after he posted the Beghe video -- has people asking questions.

Norway has now signed itself up for a role in the Scientology saga too. The picture at left is the cover of Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet.  The Norwegian press is reporting that the daughter of a member of the nation's Parliament committed suicide not long after taking a Scientology personality test in Nice, France. (The cover at left reads:  "TOOK HER OWN LIFE," and the quote at the bottom is from Parliament member Inga Marte Thorkildsen, who says, "All indications are that the Scientologist sect has played a direct role.") Here's an account in English, in which a Scientology official notes that millions of people have taken the test without a similar result, and "pointed to Ballo's earlier eating disorder and suggested that she had a history of psychiatric problems." 

Note to commenters: kindly focus your discussion points on the article at hand, rather than posting generalized statements in support of, or in opposition to, Scientology.

Comments

[Anon]

Excellent video series by Mr. Beghe it tells it from a celebrity viewpoint that is getting all the special treatment. He's the cash cow this cult tries to milk.

The human rights abuses within the sea organization are well documented. www.exscn.net is a good place to start if you are uninformed.

OSA the militant arm of scientology which specializes in character assasition and has been criminally convicted under it's previous incarnation the GO is still well at work.

In the meantime while we wait for the federal government to wake up and take out this cult join us at the preorder party around the world on may 10th.

See details here http://www.battletoadspreorder.com/

[Justananon]

Co$ is trying hard to suppress the truth about its crimes, but thanks to thousands of leaderless anons out there, Co$ in its present form (pyramid scheme - brainwashing deadly cult) is counting its last days. I can't wait for the day when Co$ leaders will have to face justice and answer for their crimes.

[observer]

From the English account:

"He [Matthias Fosse, information chief for the Church of Scientology in Norway] also pointed to Ballo's earlier eating disorder and suggested that she had a history of psychiatric problems."

This is exactly why they should not be practicing medicine. They are not prepared to handle someone with serious emotional and/or mental issues. They are so brainwashed, they just don't get it.The COS is not a religion. They have no regard for human rights. This test is nothing more than a scam designed to draw you in and steal your money.

[TerryEO]

Thank you Jason, I've been so afraid to speak out.

[Lilly von Marcab]

I hope that Beghe's speaking out will make it easier for thousands of other uncertain and frightened Scientologists to make the break. As for the Norwegian Scientologist's response to the girl's suicide: This is so typical of the cult, to viciously attack any criticism. This approach is as Hubbard intended. He advised to "always attack, never defend." Disgusting. This pyramid-scheme/mind-control cult should be completely exposed and its leaders put in jail where they belong.

[Anonymous]

Jason,

After reading up on scientology doctrine and the life of Hubbard, I have been an active critic of Scientology. I always knew that in my crusade for free speech and the rights of those whom CoS has blunted, to always make a distinction between the individual scientologist, and the corrupt organization he is a part of.

In this interview you talk alot about how much individual scientologists 'just want to help' .thank you for humanizing the 'boots on the ground' 'true believers' for myself and those who share my convictions about the crimes of CoS.

I have no beef with people 'who just want to help', but false imprisonment, tax fraud, extortion, illegal practice of medicine. . .

[anonydog]

Jason Beghe's interview is a must-watch for anyone who does not understand how seemingly intelligent people "choose" to allow themselves to be entrapped into abusive organizations, political movements or relationships.

The point is, that in the beginning, the signs of the abuse or insanity are not readily apparent (i.e., an abusive man wines and dines the woman; she has never felt more seen or validated in her life). Then when the cognitave dissonance sets in, it is so hard to make the break, because one has invested so much. Not just money, but time and emotional energy. It is really hard to come to terms with the fact that the best part of you (in Jason's case, the desire to "know thyself" and to live an authentic life) has been coopted and perverted into a cheap fascimile of what one knows "should be."

Jason needs to hook up with some psychological folks who study PTSD. Because I think that he is suffering from this on some level, and his intense honesty and self introspection can help a lot of other people suffering for other reasons (like you sign up to fight the war on terra and end up with a brain injury in Iraq, a place which had nothing to do with 9-11. Talk about cognitive dissonance).

I hope to see a lot more from Jason Beghe, both as an actor and as a human being who has something important to share.

[Graham S. Richardson]

Jason Beghe's interview is incredibly fascinating - a very honest and insightful look at how normal people can be manipulated into giving up their money and their lives for something that is truly empty. I hope anyone thinking of becoming a Scientologist watches this first, it is important they know what they are getting into.

What happened to the Norwegian lady is tragic. The personality test is part of the Scientology recruitment and sales strategy. Essentially, the test is rigged to find flaws in a person's character. The stress tests are similarly used to find what Scientologists call a person's "ruin." When the person is in a state of vulnerability and low self esteem, the Scientologist then presents Scientology as the solution. This is used to sell books, courses, and Scientology auditing to potential recruits.

[mistegirl]

You can watch the whole interview here: http://xenutv.wordpress.com/ It's great

[Gumby]

I applaud Jason Beghe for coming out and sharing his story of his involvement with scientology. I am happy he and his family are no longer a part of this global scam. Jason was unbiased in his summation.For this, i thank him for his candor.

[Plupsyeah]

This is extraordinary stuff. Even if Jason weren't the first celebrity to speak openly about the CoS, his powerful insight - even insight into his own frailties, his authenticity and his capacity to articulate some pretty arcane material sensibly makes for gripping and devastating viewing. Because Jason is the thoughtful and intelligent person he is, and because of his character, what he has to say will blow the lid off Scientology. Thank God. And Jason.

[Snoware]

The 'Church' of Scientology is not a walk-in clinic. They do not have the medical expertise to recognize someone in crisis. Performing a stress test on someone with the medical history that the Norwegian girl had was criminal. I look forward to manslaughter charges being laid.

[anon@anon.penet.fi]

Amazing. The juxtaposition of stories: the "rebirth" of a man by leaving Scientology, and the sad death of a young woman by reaching for Scientology. That in itself speaks volumes.

www.xenu.net

[Christine]

It's about time someone with a media presence spoke out against this dangerous cult. Kudos to both Jason Beghe and Mark Bunker. And it's about time major media picked up on this. So, Kudos to the L.A. Times, too.

[Plupsyeah]

Thank you for highlighting the tragedy of Kaja Ballo's death just hours after taking Scientology's "personality test". Former Scientologists have told how they are taught to emphasise the negatives in the "results" of the test, to find the person's "ruin" - the thing which is causing them the most unhappiness - and to cause them to "cave in" and buy Scientology courses and materials.

A trained psychologist or psychiatrist would - as well as using a more up-to-date and reputable test - have been alert to the emotional well-being of the individual and been very careful about how and what they said - with the wellbeing of the person the highest goal. Instead, Kaja reached out to an organisation that sets itself as "the authorities on the mind", but which delivers the arcane, unscientific rantings of a mentally ill, science fiction writer.

After Kaja's death - AFTER HER DEATH - a disturbing poster turned up in Scientology promotional material (emails). It has since been removed from the relevant host website (where I myself saw it hosted), but you can still see it here: http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8739/66174731gi6.png

[William Buddusky]

Beghe is truly a man with courage. The Scientology leadership has a long, documented history of harassing, intimidating and destroying detractors by every means possible. They do this to avoid the truth of the scam they're running from coming to light.
Thanks to the frank and detailed descriptions of people who were on the "inside" and the fearless anonymous protesters, the tactics this cult has used to supress information can no longer be used to hide the truth.
Scientology is a fraud of immense proportions. The leaders of this cult will stop at nothing, including murder, to line their pockets. Beghe also points out that most Scientologists are people of good will who really believe they are doing the right thing, people who make large personal sacrifices to do so. They are completely unaware of the cynical and destructive abuse they have fallen into and are propogating.

[Anonymous]

Now if I am not mistaken, a well known Scientologist claimed that Scientology is the "authority on the mind". So why is it that when someone with mental problemsturns up, they get turned away? One the one hand Scientology is claiming that they can fix your head, on the other hand they lay blame on the fact that someone's head is broken. Which on is it then?

[Bgodley]

As an ex-Scientologist I can attest to everything Jason has said about the lies the Church of Scientology is built on. It's unfortunate these same lies have now taken the life of a vulnerable young woman. Who knows if we would even know her name had she not been the daughter of a politician. Scientology has certainly been able to bury stories of this nature in the past. It is an important sign that the LA Times is willing to report on these significant developments without fear of retaliation.

[Evey]

I hope you have actually watched the interview. The preview was ladden with f*bombs but the overall video is pretty good. PG-13 at worse.

Jason speaks clearly of his view within the corporation of Scientology and his views now that he has become reacquainted with the rest of society. Its an interesting and genuine look into life "inside."

I'm shocked you all as reporters haven't done more stories on this subject. Does it have to take another Jonestown to take place before you all step up to grab the story? Lets have some humanity.

I would assume you would go to Xenu.net to read the legal documentation of them infiltrating U.S. Government agencies, harassing Journalists, stalking and harassing critics, having the equivalent of slave camps on their premises, encouraging ABORTIONS in their Sea Org, etc...the list seems never ending.

You all should do more indepth research on the abuses and the reality of this organization, and man up and do some real reporting instead of just saying Jason's experiance is "none too enlighting."

Do some real reporting...people have died...just like that poor girl in Norway. They are being banned and raided by cops in other countries and yet America seems oblivious. Do some reporting and get to the bottom of this.

Perhaps you are biased, you are in Los Angeles, which is one of the central's for Scientology. Use Jason's story as a spring board and get to some investigating and stand up for Human Rights. You have the power of Press, stand up for the people and do the right thing.

[anon]

What i find remarkable about the video is how clearly it illustrates the kind of person that can get into scientology. Intelligent, articulate and morally good. These are the kind of people that want to make a difference in this world. In some ways that makes them special, in others vulnerable. It illustrates the truth that 90 percent of scientology is good people, with good intentions. And as one walks the bridge to total freedom, as their own ideals get replaced with those of scientology, such as their crusade against modern psychology, the passion and righteous indignation of these people is wasted.

Jason hits on the fact that a scientologist having reached the state of clear is someone who is capable of believing whatever he is told. When you become clear, you do not question the fact that you do not have the powers you were promised, such as a total recall memory. You have been conditioned to accept explanations, that someone close to you is against scientology, and that this potential trouble source is robbing you of your ability. You accept it because you have invested so much time and money, the idea that you have been scammed is so terrifying that you simply reject it as a concept. It is the emperors new clothes.

What saved jason, was the fact that at his core, he is a critical thinker. He wanted both sides of the psychology argument, and was not buying the looping logic that is fed to those who do.

And the really terrifying thing is, the sheer number of scientologists that will believe whatever they are told, simply because scientology says so, it is a directive to never question the text, never think outside the box, and always presume the individual is at fault not the system, the same methods being pushed into public schools by scientologys applied scholastics program.

What makes the jason interview so staggering i think, is that i think this is a man who can reach a lot of scientologists. He is a man who speaks in the voice and terminology of a scientologist, but who, standing outside the lie, can communicate the logical fallacies of it to those within with crystal clarity. All it takes as he says, is a snap realisation. For any clear to say. Where is my perfect memory??Why was I told going in that this is what I would get, and I didnt get it. But for a scientologist gone clear, thats probably the hardest question you could ever ask yourself.

[Tin]

There may have been many people who have taken the Scientology free stress tests or free personality tests without incident but that misses the point. The point to be made that should concern everyone is the fact that the death of one person should matter when there is an organization trying (and failing) to replace legitimate medical and psychological treatments.

They are sending people out on the streets with carts like that of a hotdog vendor to peddle books and administer these tests. They present them in such a way as to lead people to believe they have some manner of scientific or medical validity which they do not. The people that give these tests are instructed to find or create fault in the test results. Therefore the person taking the test, no matter how brilliant or well adjusted, will find himself being told he or she is in some way faulty. The reason for this is so that the peddler/test giver can sell them what they call the cure - Scientology.

It is a cold, sometimes cruel, sales and recruitment tactic presented as science and it needs to be stopped.

[Steve Daly]

My word, I've watched this interview in its entirety, and having done so I have many questions as to the "convenient" timing of Mr. Bunker losing his YouTube account coupled with the release of the teaser for Mr. Beghe's interview. I congratulate Jason for being willing to step up and speak these truths that have obviously hurt him deeply. If this is par for the course in Scientology, then I fully encourage this video's distribution to everyone so that we may be better educated against the crimes of this "church".

[Buddy]

For those looking, you can find the full 8 part interview here:
http://xenutv.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/jason-beghe-interview/

[orlando]

GREAT JOB JASON.....scientology will need several firetrucks to put out this fire, and that will be a losing battle, because there are bad dogs nipping at their heals.

[Mary McConnell]

Jason Beghe is a very brave man for doing this. MAny people will be helped by it.

Regarding Norway, for the readers, here is a link to the google english translation of the related story : "Kaja, 20, commits suicide in Nice: Scientology called into question"
http://tinyurl.com/3z2geb

Scientology can do nothing to help a person's mental health. In this case, which is certainly not an isolated one, if a person has a history of any asssociation with the mental health industry, they are turned away from the church or made to 'volunteer' their life away showing that the psychs are evil.

Poor Kajja Ballo took the free personality test and talked CONFIDENTIALLY to the test evaluator and was told she was too messed up by psychiatry to be able to be helped.
Scientology professes to be a religion that holds confessional sacred but that it far from the truth. Confessionals of any information can and wil be used aganist members, as the Kaja Balla demonstrates . Celebrities need to listen to this interview because Beghe is correct that scientology records via video tape the counseling sessions. And as wll, the written worksheet of the counselor are supposed to be " confidential' but they are not. Just ask any former member who is a named critic.

During the initial hours after her death, Kaja Ballo's father says that in response to the family's questions, which were legitimate, the spokesman for Scientology in Norway saw fit to "sully the memory of my daughter", presenting her as "a sick person, addicted to antidepressants" saying that over the last ten years she reportedly made incessant trips to Psychiatry. Presuming that Mr Ballo is an enemy because he asks questions, the task of scientology become attack, in the form of 'fair game'. One can look that up at Wikipedia

Let's be clear here: This test was created to guide the staff in finding areas of problems people had so they could sell they scientology services. So here we have Kaja Ballo, devasted by her test results which were worthlesss to scientology because they would not bring MONEY into thecoffers. Kaja was not a money prospect because of her admissions. They handed her her test results, an act done only with those not allowed back in, and she went home feeling as if her world had been ripped apart. In fact, it was.

What kind of church besides Scientology does something this? Well, I lost a dear friend under similar circumstances when I was in Scientology. Her name was Dale Bogen, formerly of Philadelphia . She believed Scientology was her only hope. So over the years they made many promises to her and took all her hard earned money and when the practices of scientology began to have an ill effect on her, they sequestered her instead of getting her appropriate mental heath medical care. What happened next is either one of two versions, both equally gruesome with a common result being death. The circumstances of her death are too much for the family to death with and I respect their wishes. But one day I will know all the terrible details, more than I was told by the church and I will share her story with the world so that her death can help prevent others.

In the meantime, Kaja's death, the death of a young innocent girl pulled in off the street by a cult with no conscience, stands are evidence tht scientology is a con game, a deadly con game. May she rest n peace and may Scientology be held accountable for her death.

Mary

[Merrill]

As a Scientologist for 34 years I can speak directly to the other side of this story. I've continued studying and applying Scientology because it works. It is a very difficult path that requires significant self-discipline and commitment. The results in bettering one's life and the lives' of one's fellows are tremendous. It is a highly structured sequence of steps and to me the key has always been ensuring I fully grasped the step before moving on to the next.
I've seen too many Scientologists try to take shortcuts, skimming over important materials and moving on without the correct foundations. Their results have been poor, often with the conclusion that "it doesn't work".
I've also seen many Scientologists mis-apply the techniques and policies to their own detriment and the detriment of others. I look at this as zealotry, not a good operating basis for anyone in any activity. It is the job of each and every Scientologist to maintain their own integrity and refuse to agree with actions they deem wrong, whether inside their own church or in the secular world.

[OKAY]

Hey Merrill...

If you are implying that Mr. Beghe went too fast, how long do you think people should expect travelling the bridge to take? I mean, about 15 years in, and he made it just over halfway...and you're saying he RUSHED? Seems a bit off to me. By the way, with 35 years under your belt, I take it you're OTVIII? Or are you still struggling up the bridge?

[User Name]

Hey Merrill...

Why have I read the exact same comment from you in two other comment sections? As in you cut and pasted this exact comment to multiple news articles. The Village Voice article for one.

You would think being that different things are being discussed in each comment section (all in relation to the video, but different subjects FROM the video) that you would respond to the comments and arguments presented. Are you even reading the comment sections before you post your cut & pastes? It seems like you are not, and if you aren't, did you even watch the full 2 hours of interview Jason did?

Please make direct arguements to Jason's points he made in the videos. What are your opinions of the language used at Gold Base (referring to Jason's comments)? Better question to find out if you actually bothered to watch the videos... How many dogs does Jason have, and what colours are they?

[SNARF]

Hey Merrill..

Are you implying that Jason Beghe rushed his study? Then why did they declare him 'clear' twice?

How many people have you signed up and are collecting lifetime 10% commissions from? Sounds like you have more then an invested interest to keep this nasty cults crimes secret.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Charles Manson was a Scientologist.

Manson took 150 hours of auditing. Co$ taught him to “Be Godly”. Manson claimed, he completed all courses from 64′ to 68′while in jail & was theta clear. He visited the celebrity center in Hollywood and purchased books and a Emeter. Then he left the church and took his newly twisted reality and a Emeter to go create his own flock. When they caught these brainwashed hippies, Manson had Co$ books and a Emeter at the Death Valley ranch.

Makes since. Hang out with the crooks to learn how to be crooked. How many other dangerous people did scientology create and unleash on the world?

[Dio Brando]

Beghe is truly a man who is informed, and not afraid. It's not a matter of "oh, they didn't praise me enough" or "hey, i'm getting paid to turn against"-- you can feel in his words how he seriously woke up to the reality of things, and how aghast it made him.

As for the suicide case, that's just horrible. If Scientology claims itself to be so perfect, why could they not prevent her from killing herself? Why would she suddenly drive to the edge?

It's simple. Everyone that walks in for their free test is told that their life is in shambles, that they're worthless without Scientology. It's a hook to get people to think that they need saving, and only the CoS can help. The spokesperson alone confirms that there was no intent to help, no encouragement given, except possibly to drive further the desire for death.

[Artoo45]

The Silence of the Clams.

Kind of shocking actually, since the OSA Rondroids love a flame war. Not one troll on this list except for a weak attempt at sarcasm by the omnipresent Terryeo. They can say NOTHING in response to Jason Beghe's experience. I think David Miscavige's head just exploded.

[Anonymous]

One other interesting tidbit about the xenutv1 channel of YouTube, just to add a little more evidence of wrongdoing and make it seem less like tinfoil-hat-wearing conspiracy... when Mark's first channel (Xenutv, without the 1) was shut down, YouTube told him that it was closed because of a copyright infringement claim by Viacom for the Colbert Report clip that he had posted. On the same day that Viacom complained, CoS also sent him a notice to remove the Tom Cruise video. His account was suspended by YouTube before he read these messages, so there was no way that he could have complied.

When xenutv1 was suspended, YouTube (eventually) told him that it was because someone had complained that he was operating a second channel in violation of the YouTube Terms of Service. But although they had had no problem telling him that the previous channel was closed due to a complaint by Viacom, they declined to say who complained to have xenutv1 suspended.

Hmmmmm...

[Jennifer]

I find it amazing that Mr Beghe went public. He and his family most likely struggled with this choice, knowing how the backlash could be far worse than the loss of his 15 years un Scientology.I remember being inundated with Dianetics books in elementary school by 2 sisters who's mother was into the CoS. I always felt sorry for them, schlepping these books to every school function, with no one ever being remotely interested. The scary thing is, these girls were MOCKED by the other kids. And why? Because even as school kids, everyone thought that this "made up" religion was just that, made up.
Now many years later we see the obnoxious celebrities hawking their CoS as if it actually helps the masses. Where are the massive charitable endevoursof the CoS, like the ones done by Christians, Jews and Muslims? Where are all the happy, well adjusted kids who freely share their faiths with their friends? Kids who are well educated in their beliefs and feel free to discuss them with their peers? Most religions encourage debate and free thought as part of their spiritual path. I have always thought that if one's faith cannot stand up to a well meaning , educational debate, then what is that religion hiding?
And I doubt that any rabbi, mullah, priest or pastor would charge money to bring further enlightenment! Anyone can own a Quran, a Bible or Torah. Most study guides can be bought for under 30$. Why does the CoS charge thousands of dollars for secretive "tests"?
Any good church will open it's door and invite discussion and debate. The New Testament urges people to be able to give reasons for their faith. Jesus urged compassion and love.
What does Scientology offer to the poor and down hearted? And don't tell me that "it kept me off drugs". Any athlete will tell you, their coach will know by evidence of their performance, and that coach will tell you, a good athlete STAYS off drugs or the whole team fails.
I hope Mr Beghe and his family and friends stay alert and safe, who knows what goons are lurking behind them now.

[Mariah]

I was so touched by Jason Beghe's interview. This is a stand-up guy. Who took the risk and sat in front of the camera to tell his story of how this so-called religion, messed up his life. There are countless stories that one can find on the internet --- stories of people whose lives have been destroyed financially, emotionally, spiritually.

People who have lost their families, friends and their lives on this money-making phony religion. For as long as Scientology hides behind a tax exempt status and idiot celebrities like Tom Cruise and John Travolta, unfortunately, it will continue to flourish. We'll continue to see people who are going through rough patches in their own lives, seek out some sort of magic cure from this sect.

If Jason Beghe helps just one person in Scientology find the courage to get out -- and stops just one person from going down there for the phony stress test, or even thinking of buying a copy of Dianetics, he will have been a success.

My greatest hope is that enough people on the inside of this cult can find a way out. And that the mainstream media will begin to cover this.

Funny, the so-called "entertainment news shows" will spend three days covering a stupid celebrity wedding, or buy and then attempt to air a video of the late Heath Ledger snorting cocaine, or air video or video after video of Anna Nicole Smith self-destructing, but no one will cover a celebrity escape from a dangerous cult.

Interesting.

And shameful.

[Dawn Olsen]

David, thank you for continuing to cover this story in the mainstream. It is not only significant from a cultural movement standpoint, but also as it pertains to free speech and freedom of expression.

[A. Nonn]

I think it's important to look at how Scientology has reacted in Ms. Ballo's death. They do not offer her family words of sympathy. Instead, they attack the poor girl, basically saying "well she was obviously screwed up, it must be her own fault she killed herself"! This is no different than saying a girl who got raped was "asking for it" because she was wearing something more revealing than a burqa.

A more important question is this: why is Scientology making a psychiatric judgement about Ms. Ballo? They claim to hate psychiatry, yet they are the experts on this issue? This doesn't make any sense.

[Pete]

Hi.

In regard's to Scientology's public statement, why is it that they never take responsibility for anything negative that surrounds them?

L Ron Hubbard's writings preach 110% responsibility in many areas (Advanced Procedures and Axioms and State of Man lectures, for example) -- he says you are ultimately responsibile for your problems because you are ultimately responsible for everything you experience -- that's circular child-like logic that limits thinking.

Then LRH tech preaches "know vs not-know" which address the dichtomy of "knowing everything" vs the advantage of not knowing what's going to happen next.

It is clear that whatever Scientology has to offer, mankind has failed at applying it.

That is what we are witnessing here, in the current information on the state of the "organization."

I, personally, found a certain value and astounding logic in the mind of L Ron Hubbard -- that is completely my opinion.

However, the organization, we are witnessing, finding and accelerating, is in demise.

It will be interesting to know what is happening at the Upper Management Level.

When I was in Scientology, working at a church, I almost had no contact with Upper Mgmt, and they were generally to be feared and appeased. They were basically your boss--a scary version of Charlie in Charlie's Angels.

But they require too much faith in these unknown people for me to stay in it.

Once I had access to the internet and educated myself on the WHOLE picture, it makes it easy to get out.

I had a conversation with my boss (Executive Director) in the church about reading books that criticize the phenomenon of Scientology, and she said she would never read a book like that, but I could never trust anyone that much...I guess it's my upbringing.

[Love Scientology]

I've taken the Stress test a few times, and I find most of the attacks on it not to be true. The fact is that there are people taking this test for the first time, never been Scientologists, that gets high scores on the test. They also get the correct positive feedback on it. What I've learned in the Church, is that the stresstest reveals how I think of myself, not necessarily how I actually am as a person. You have to know that a lot of good people regard themselves as bad, because they can't live up to standards given to them by others, I don't believe that this test killed the Norwegian girl. To say so, is actually to put her down.

When that is said, I really hope that CoS does not declare Jason Beghe as an SP. I think they use that description of people too loosely, on behalf of thousands of Scientologists that might not agree with them. There must be room for questions and doubt also for Scientologists. The organisation can not be so desperate to maintain the right tech between the members of the Church, that the CoS themselves are using the wrong tech to maintain the right tech.

Because, as long as there are Scientologists who decides to leave the Church, there must be used wrong tech. If the tech were used correctly by CoS and personell officers, they wouldn't want to leave, I'm sure.

I understand the importance of selfdicipline to keep Scientology living and to clear the planet, but note the word itself; SELFdicipline. It's not up to CoS or any other staff to dicipline anyone, because that can only be done by ONESELF. This is basic Scientology knowledge, something CoS should know. Scaring off undiciplined staffmembers with cramming they might not be ready to confront, is not a good solution. And nobody should be forced to do anything they're not willing to do.

I, myself, was put on the E-meter by an Ethics officer, just because I had been in contact with a former Scientologist that was critical to the organisation (not critical to Scientology). And I was only a DIV 6 student and not even a member. I came off good, and they didn't do anything more out of it. But to some people this is hard to experience. Some newbies might believe that the E-meter is a liedetector, and feel uncomfortable being questioned in a situation like that. I do understand that there is no room for undiciplined Scientologists with false pretences, but there still must be room for doubts.

The main goal of Scientology is so pure and loving, that it's a shame that CoS manage to destroy the purity of it by using the right tech the wrong way. They've handled the media so poorly, that they are alienating Scientology from our society.

I know for a fact that Scientologists and staff members only want to help people. I do not believe that they said anything to that Norwegian girl in Nice that would want her to kill herself. We don't know who she might have talked to before she killed herself. Who knows, maybe she was talking to someone else after being in the Church, someone who told her how stupid she was to contact them, and how misserable she was in general. We don't know that. Only she herself knows the real reason for her own death.

[Norwegian]

A comment to A Nonn who says:

I think it's important to look at how Scientology has reacted in Ms. Ballo's death. They do not offer her family words of sympathy. Instead, they attack the poor girl, basically saying "well she was obviously screwed up, it must be her own fault she killed herself"! This is no different than saying a girl who got raped was "asking for it" because she was wearing something more revealing than a burqa.

A more important question is this: why is Scientology making a psychiatric judgement about Ms. Ballo? They claim to hate psychiatry, yet they are the experts on this issue? This doesn't make any sense.

What you say is not true. I have followed the case in the Norwegian media, and the Scientologists in Norway are very compassionate with her family, and they don't say anything negative about Kaja Ballo.

They just say that they think it's unfare to blame a test taken by millions, and that they have not experienced a suicide because of the test ever before. At the same time, her own family has told the press that she a few years ago had an eating disorder and was treated by psychiatrists, The scientologists says that her suicide might be the result of other problems in her life, and not the test.

The Norwegian scientologists has actually been very thoughtful in this case, and they have not said anything that can be hurtful to her family.

[William Buddusky]

Response to Norwegian's post.
Here is what her father and uncle had to say:
"Her uncle claimed she was fully recovered from problems she'd had as a young teen seven years ago. Her father blasted Fosse's remarks, telling newspaper VG that the Scientologists were tarnishing his daughter's memory and showing utter disregard for her private medical history."
It doesn't appear as though the Norwegian scientoligists were "very thoughtful in this case" as you suggest.
I'm going to go with the interpretation of the family regarding how scientolgists have treated them, not your impressions from following the case in Norwegian media.

[Myspace Quiz]

I wouldn't consider scientology as a whole for the cause of her death, if discovered it was true, i would focus on the indvidual(s) involved. take a note from the catholics