Gov. Perry: Texas may secede from union over Obama spending

There were lots of tax protest tea parties all over the nation Wednesday to mark the April 15 tax deadline, with lots of genuine anger over President Obama's $787-billion stimulus package and $3-trillion budget. One classic sign spotted during the day: "Don't tax me, bro!"

But only one -- in Texas -- prompted talk of stimulus spending so severe that it could prompt another Civil War.

Gov. Rick Perry -- the hero of Hurricane Katrina who made way for thousands of evacuees from Louisiana and Mississippi -- is facing a tough primary challenge this year from popular Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison. So maybe he should be forgiven for a little hyperbole.

But even when invoking the patriots of 1773 who dumped tea in the Boston Harbor to protest the British crown's "taxation without representation," threatening to leave the country seems a bit severe.

Before a fired-up crowd on the steps of Austin City Hall, with some in his U.S. flag-waving audience shouting, "Secede!" Perry said Texas' economy was in relatively good shape compared with other states and with the "federal budget mess.''

Later, answering reporters' questions, Perry said:

We’ve got a great union. There’s absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that. But Texas is a very unique place, and we’re a pretty independent lot to boot.

See what you think.

-- Johanna Neuman

Click here to register for free automatic Twitter alerts of each new Ticket item.

Photo: Karen Bleier / AFP/Getty Images

Comments

[flight]

God bless perry, a leader of state rights a leader of wat the founder intended.

[Thomas Mc]

Hey, I'd be more than happy go give Texas back to Mexico!

[Carl Wiley]

Yeah right. Go ahead and lose all of the government investment in your state. This type of bluster isn't needed now or ever. He should worry about Texas and if he doesn't like how the country is being run, then run for President. What is most annoying is conservatives act like we are 6 years into the Obama administration.

Author
The Ring of Knowledge

[RestoreFederalism]

This sort of talk by Texas Governor Perry is actually quite rational. The 17th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution took away the state governments' voice in the federal government. Without that essential check on democracy, excessive spending and taxing (and growth of scope) by Washington cannot be stopped, even with better politicians and better laws. What Governor Perry seems to acknowledge is that the problem is structural, not legislative. With the 17th Amendment, there is no other alternative than what we have now: a federal government that treats the states like dependent children, and a presumed (but faulty) paternalistic relationship requiring national intervention. Return the voice of the states to the national government by repealing the 17th Amendment and we will fix the structural problem that must be addressed first. Learn more at restorefederalism.org.

[Jason]

I think I speak for many Northerners in saying, "Please do so. We promise we won't stop you this time."

[Robert]

I find it amusing that people from a state with the financial problems that California faces, would even begin to throw stones at Texas. If your state government is so great why are you so far in debt, while Texas does not face this problem?

You have gun laws that don't work, thousands unemployed as companies leave your state in droves, no courage for imigration enforcement, and more violence per capita then Texas.

All the feel good rhetoric you all chant does nothing to solve any of your problems. Lets start with immigration enforcement; The opinion of Mrs. Pelosi is that we need compationate immigration enforcement. In California verbage that equates to none.

Let me ask you all a question, would a Houston police officer be dead after being shot to death by an ILLEAGAL immigrant still be alive if we enforced border security? Don't give me the explination, tell it to his family, I'm sure they would love to hear it.

Ok on to gun control. This said officer was shot dead with his own pistol taken from him by said offender. We have some of the loosest gun laws in America, but yours are some of the most strict. Why does California suffer more murder per 100,000 people then Texas?

Figures are as follows;

2006 California per 100,000 : Murder 6.8 %
2006 Texas per 100,000 : Murder 5.9%

Makes you wonder.

The L.A. Time can write anything it wants, with liberal bias expected. It's readers can try to defile the name of Texas, and it's residents. Calling us "right wing wackos, red necks, ignorant", and any other thing it wants. I actually will even defend you right to do so. But only because the constitution affords us ALL this luxury.

If you were all so much smarter then us as you like to believe, awnser this; Why is Texas in better shape then you? Why is unemployment, taxes, and the price of goods and services lower here? Why do we enjoy more freedoms, and a better quality of life then you?

People who live in states with your problems shouldn't throw stones. But hey, I'm sure your medical marijuana can make all your problems go away!

[MPS]

Where was this rage when their own home-grown boy spent all of our money and put us in the largest deficit in histroy? Did they just wait until he was out of office so they could blindly blame it all on the new guy? He can only work with what he was given.

[Dan]

I can only hope Texas leaves. That's just one less state to make us, per capita, dumber, fatter, more religious, more racist, and every other bad thing that the South heaps upon the rest of us. Go on Texas, get the hell out, and take the rest of the Confederacy with you. And Utah while you're at it.

And while your new country can be the super-duper Conservative bastion you've always dreamed of, where you can finally outlaw queers and non-believers and pass draconian laws about what sort of materials adults are allowed to purchase and view, maybe the North will have finally learned the lesson that secession would be best for all of us.

[Dave]

Okay Texas, go ahead and leave the union. Here are a few items to consider before you go:
- What will you export to make your country money?
- How many businesses that you would be depending on to pay tax dollars will leave your country because they see you as unstable?
- How will you defend yourself? The United States will pull out all of the military personnel and equipment they have there. You might get a little bit that you steal, but the rest of it is gone. If you steal some of it, you should hope the United States will forgive it.
- How long will it take to establish laws and policies for things you don't yet have, such as trade relations, welfare, immigration and so on? Your state constitution only goes so far.
-Where will the money come from to run your country?

[rar]

"The 17th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution took away the state governments' voice in the federal government. "

The 17th amendment is direct election of senators. I fail to see how a corrupt state government chosing the people who represent (supposedly) the regular people would cause this problem.

The 10th amendment gives the states their power, actually. Power which cannot be taken away, ever unless THAT'S repealed.

"Return the voice of the states to the national government by repealing the 17th Amendment and we will fix the structural problem that must be addressed first. "

no, you mean "let us elect the senators, we know better than the people". sorry. i like my right to elect who i see fit.

[Ellie]

Obama will not let us leave the union.

C'mon man! We have the largest military base in the world!
Besides, though people in Texas do consider them Texan before American, people really wouldn't want to secede from the union.

[Washingtonian]

Hey Robert! Great job pointing out the flaws of one state to make your own look better, while leaving out all the other information that cancels and avoids your point.

By the way, where was George W. Bush from again? Oh yeah, right.

[JonnyDeekay]

HAHA! Sure! Leave the union.....oh just one thing....you happen to be surrounded by a country; who just so happens to be THE military power in the world today. See what its like to be invaded by your friends and family in our military. You really think this country would just LET them have all that land? Texas, don't mess with US!

[Andrew White]

Thumbing their nose at the American People? You mean, the ones who voted these guys in? I think Perry is the one thumbing his nose at America. And where was Perry when the Supreme Court handed the White House to Bush? Was he concerned about said thumbing then?

Nope. Just another hypocritical hack politician. Move on, folks.

[Brian Gatten]

Calling Perry "the hero of Hurricane Katrina" is the real hyperbole in this article. Have we really lowered our standards so much that not preventing people in danger from entering your state is considered heroic?

[testington]

I find a lot of this concervative tax protest non-sense to be rather frightening actually. It's like people are so brainwashed by Fox News they don't take even the slightest amount of time to research things. One of the reasons Obama's budget is so high is because he actually is putting the Iraq spending on the books.

Also I would bet the majority of the people protesting aren't actually paying higher taxes (as most Americans aren't) but instead just have less money than they did last year so paying seems like less of a burdon.

But a lot of conservatives would rather have a president cut all programs that spend money on America and Americans out of greed, so they vote republican...not realizing it was the war hawk's spending and neo-con banking deregulation that caused the recession.

[David Ryther]

As a Texan I can say that I find it crazy that 3/4 of the people that read this article think that Perry would secede. I realize that many people in my state don't think much of a Democratic President/Congress, but almost everyone would call secession ridiculous.

Rick Perry is playing upon the dislike of the current national government by many of his constituents. This is more like saying: "I disagree with Washington!" which nets him some cheers from people that agree with him and sneers from people that wouldn't vot for him anyway.

His public speaking about less government is just political; he's still taking a nice bit of stimulus money, but publicly denying some and lambasting the plan gets him votes.

I disagree with the above comment that we are Texans first and Americans second. People here are much more proud about their nation than their state.Believe me when I say that people seeking secession look just as crazy to you as to us. But Texas is not threatening to, and will not secede.

But it looks like a lot of the commenters here would be happier if it did...

[Clare]

If Texas secedes, Mexico will reclaim them. Good luck to Texas with fending them off.

[Thomas]

I find it funny that some people still think the tea parties are a republican movement (they're not over yet.) You happen to be way off base. It's not only about the income tax. We have more than 60 taxes besides the income tax..not to mention all of the "fees" we have as well. Tell me why it is that our representatives (mostly on the liberal side) were demonizing "big oil" when the federal and state governments get a bigger piece of the pie than any of the oil companies do....when they're doing all the work extracting and refining...? Are you happy paying a DEATH TAX? How about a GIFT TAX? INCOME? SALES? PROPERTY? SOCIAL SECURITY? MEDICARE? I can go on and on. The tea parties are about a government that keeps getting bigger. A government that keeps dreaming up new ways to tax us. Have you heard of the proposed mileage tax? Taxing us not only on gas, wheels (wheel tax), registration, license, emissions testing....but also we are heading down the road of being taxed on how many miles we drive, and on which type of road we're driving on. It's getting ridiculous. Government I mean. Republicans and Democrats alike.

[Go away Texas]

I hope they do secede. Good riddance!

[Mexican]

Keep Texas in the U.S. We don't want it back in Mexico.

[Clay Laird, Hamilton, Texas]

I see all all these comments about whether or not Texas can secede from the USSA. Those comments are not worth a cup of warm spit. Sorry, but Texans will make that decision.

The ONLY question that must be answered is: If some of us are willing to die to leave the USSA, are some of you and/or your children willing to die to keep us? Everyone reading this blog knows the answer to that question.

If you want your children to live in a free Capitalist county, then come and join us. Those of you that want someone to take care of you, please leave before we drive you out. You only have a few years to make a decision. After that the fence on the West, North, East will be built to keep all socialist out will be completed.

You can be living with us in a country that NOW has the 15th largest GDP on the planet. Think of what it can be in 10-20 years.

Also:

Every real Texan knows they are required to have weapons and ammunition.

Plenty of oil for our own use. Who do you think refines all that oil into gasoline? We will let you have it for an additional $1.00 per gallon export tax.

No toy cars built by the USSA government.

No cap and trade.

No 10-20% VAT tax that is coming to the USSA.

No criminals released to prey on us.

Great ports.

Practice religion as you choose.

Who do think runs most of the Military bases we have?.
The boys we have fighting overseas will be coming home. Want to do battle with them?

And several dozen other advantages . . .

[Steve]

To all of those that think many services, businesses, industries, and people will leave Texas should a secession occur: You have failed to consider the other side of the coin. Think of how many Texas residents/natives in the military who would most likely refuse to turn on their own when commanded, and likely declare their allegiance to the Republic Of Texas and come back and fight for it's independence, as well as other native and NON-native civilians outside of who share the same sentiment and beliefs, socially and politically, who would also emigrate/defect to Texas in droves to support the drive for independence, as supported by many posters in this very blog. Do not forget, Texas is heavily armed, even without the military, and I do believe the military bases,installations, and all property that lies within would fall under siege to the newly seceded republic, purely by reason of them lying within the newly independent borders, thus arming a new Texas military. There are enough gunsmiths and foundries within Texas to keep a newly created military armed and ready, plus it creates new jobs in the military manufacturing sector. Other companies that manufacture military components like McDonnel-Douglas, Boeing, Stewart and Stevenson, and many of their related technological companies that are within close proximity, etc, also lie within TX, so I'm quite sure they would stay (due to reasons stated in the paragraph below).

Texas provides a great economic climate to do commerce in, with lower costs of operation (and living), at-will employment, low union presence, and tax breaks to invigorate commerce. With many of the technologies being applied worldwide today with many of those technologies originating in Texas, it seems the commerce segment here would thrive, and you can bet Texas will be the hub of worldwide oil & gas operations, as well as research for alternatives. Since NASA has some funding reductions/issues by the US gov't I do believe Texas would retain NASA and the US would be happy to let go of that financial burden. Texas could be free to do trade with other nations who would find Texas a very hospitable place to do business, as Toyota already has done with their manufacturing plant outside of San Antonio (for example).

Imports into TX from the US could have tariffs levied upon them, should the US want to play economic hardball; that could curtail US production and increase TX imports from other nations the US does business with as well...it just seems like a win/win situation for TX to declare it's independence. Texas could easily model it's foreign policy and trade practices after those practiced during the successful Reagan era (a Californian whose ideas seem to have been lost on his own former constituents).

An observation: Blue states with the highest taxation of their independent commerce and constituents/residents to spend in useless and degenerative social programs and etc, also seem to have the highest costs of living, the highest unemployment rates, and the most fiscally challenged state budgets. A coincidence?

[Steve]

In addition, Mexico does not want Texas, nor could they ever hope to defeat them, as the number of well armed civilians would far outweigh and outnumber than Mexico's military. Add to that a Texas military, and in all likelihood, Mexico has no chance. By circumstance, Texas could likely annex Mexico without much fervor.

I just hope they would not change the name to Texaco...

[Jason]

Oh I pary for the day Texas secedes from the union. You realize Texas has the most overweight people in the US. We will become a more healthier nation. Let them be part of Mexico. I will gladly "forget the Alamo". Then we can declare war on Texas over oil, kick their ass and they''ll come back anyway. Oh well it may not be such a great idea after all

[James]

Amusing that people are posting the fact that Bush came from Texas is a bad thing because of the deficit he left. How is Obama better? He has spent more money in less than a year than Bush did in all 8 years and he is still just getting started. Taxes have already risen for the lower and middle class which is something that never happened with Bush. I like my right to what I worked for. Obama is stealing our money and doing absolutely nothing with it that benefits anyone besides big business.

[LOLTexas]

Didn't Texas try to be independent once before? Lol! But on a serious note, I say go for it. Maybe Obama will get scared and change his socialist ways.

[Lord Astral]

"Yeah right. Go ahead and lose all of the government investment in your state. "
Author
The Ring of Knowledge

---------

I tell you what, why don't you reconsider what it would mean if Texas left the country. We don't need federal money. If we were to secede, we could implement an income tax, at a lower rate than we already pay to the Federal government. As for money, we'd be just fine.

For one, we have the single largest field of natural gas in the WORLD. And we have twice as much as Wyoming, which is the second largest producer of natural gas. Texas is the leading crude oil-producing State in the Nation. We also account for 25% of the total oil refining capacity in the country.

You would do better to ask, what would the United States do without Texas? After all, we make up nearly 10% of the total land area of the whole dang country.

[Lord Astral]

"Dave" asked these questions, so I thought I would answer them.

Okay Texas, go ahead and leave the union. Here are a few items to consider before you go:
- What will you export to make your country money?

Oil, refining capacity, beef, produce, natural gas, computers, Texas produces quite a lot of stuff which goes to the other forty nine states.

- How many businesses that you would be depending on to pay tax dollars will leave your country because they see you as unstable?

Texas has lower property taxes, sales taxes, and other taxes than most other states in the nation. We also have no state income tax. Were we to secede, we could implement an income tax at half the rate of the current federal tax and we'd be doing good.

- How will you defend yourself? The United States will pull out all of the military personnel and equipment they have there. You might get a little bit that you steal, but the rest of it is gone. If you steal some of it, you should hope the United States will forgive it.

Wrong doofus. The Texas National Guard is the state's militia. It belongs to the Texas (which btw, is its official name) All those Texas boys and girls fighting in Iraq and Afganistan, and all that equipment they brought with them, belongs to Texas, not to the Federal government. Plus we got 24 million Texans, many of them with guns that would be perfectly willing to go shoot some people down to defend our state. I personally can but a bullet in the head of a deer at close to 500 yards, and I am by no means the best shooter in Texas. Bring it on.

- How long will it take to establish laws and policies for things you don't yet have, such as trade relations, welfare, immigration and so on? Your state constitution only goes so far.

Our "state" constitution was originally the constitution for an independent country, which is what we were before we signed a treaty with the US. We'd be fine.

-Where will the money come from to run your country?

see question one. I have no doubt the other forty nine energy hungry states in the union will be happy to give us their money so they can continue to drive cars and heat homes.

------------

[im under 13]

Canada rocks!

[Dennis]

Texas has so much money? I guarantee you there's no faster way to waste it all then trying to go it alone.
Not that it'll happen. It's a ridiculous notion, entertained by a minority group that makes a point out of being extra loud to look bigger than it is.

[Ryan]

WUSS

[Rich]

Yee haw ... say didn't you sillies gift the nation with one of the biggest morons ever elected President? LBJ, yeah that was you guys all right...

[Sarah W]

Oh, how I wish Texas would really leave the Union. Everyone I know in the northeast would have a bash of a magnitude never encountered.

[Rebs]

That would be nice, but I don't think Mexico wants them anymore...

[ohplease]

Flight must be from Texas. "God bless perry, a leader of state rights a leader of wat the founder intended" What is spelled with an h. Perhaps you should learn how to spell or type correctly before throwing in your two cents.

[Scott M. Stolz]

Some interesting observations and facts about whether Texas would be able to secede from the Union:

During the civil war, Texas was actually winning. It was the Confederacy that surrendered. If Texas had declared independence, as Sam Houston urged, instead of joining the Confederacy, Texas may have won, even though the Confederacy lost. Texas actually won the last battle of the civil war against the union, after the Confederacy surrendered, because it did not know the war was over.

Every state has a military (or state militia), and retains its military powers, even to this day. After WWI, the federal government offered a deal to the states. The federal government would help fund the state militias in exchange for being able to call the state militias into service when needed, in addition to the state being able to call it into service when needed. The National Guard system you see today is actually state militias operated under this arrangement. Like another poster mentioned, they are technically and legally state military forces, not federal. If Texas would secede from the union, they would no doubt keep their state military, the Texas National Guard, and the Texas State Guard, which already exist.

If Texas were an independent country, it would rank economically somewhere around Canada and India in GDP (Gross Domestic Product), and ranks higher than Mexico, Russia and Australia. Texas is an economic powerhouse, so it definitely can survive independently economically.

Speaking of economics, more tax money flows out Texas to support other states, than is returned to Texas. Essentially Texas is subsidizing other states. So Texas would actually benefit from leaving the union, since more tax dollars would stay in Texas.

Texas pretty much does what it wants anyway, since it does not depend on federal funds like many other states do. It's glad to take federal funds, of course, but it does not need it to survive. Even if it stays in the union, it can and will assert its will when it needs to.

Also, most people have forgotten what was taught in U.S. History class. The United States is a union of sovereign states, with most domestic laws being state laws, not federal laws. And that is by design. The federal government was designed to deal with international and interstate issues, but not issues within the states themselves. The original states (former colonies) were all independent states with their own military, currencies, laws and customs. This is so the California Republic and all the other states can pass laws that are appropriate for their own citizens.

The fact that there is a division of power between the states and federal government is probably one of the only things keeping this country a democracy. If the states get out of line, the federal government will step in and protect people's rights, just as they did when states violated people's civil rights. On the other hand, the states will also step in and prevent the federal government from getting out of line as well, by refusing to implement draconian laws. Federalism works because the states and federal government are in a constant power struggle, which helps prevent one or the other from becoming a dictatorship. If you don't think that can happen, remember, Hitler was elected.

Just some things to think about.

[Katherine]

Didn't the US explicitly make it illegal to secede after the civil war?

[Andrew Y.]

go ahead and succeed texas, the us military will just conquer you back by force.