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Supreme Court today deliberates suit blocking Obama presidency

(UPDATE: The Supreme Court had issued no statement on its discussions by the close of business Friday.)

It may come as something of a shock to those millions planning trips to Washington for the Jan. 20 inauguration of President-elect Barack Obama that he isn't really legally capable of taking the oath.

It's the birth certificate thing. And we have a tendentious video below to show the kind of claims being made that he is not a "native-born" American.

That's because he was born in Kenya to an alien father and isn't a natural-born American as the Constitution requires and the copy of his Hawaii birth certificate looks fake to many and the state won't release the original, which makes everything that much more suspicious.

This controversy has been brewing for many months online with few taking it seriously. The Ticket wrote about it last June and again in August.

We published a birth certificate provided by the ObaBarack Obama's birth certificate as provided by his presidential campaignma presidential campaign, which has caused hundreds of commenters to argue back and forth over its authenticity, especially in recent weeks.

And we'll publish it again right here.

Crackpot controversy, you say. He's been accepted as a U.S. citizen.

But here's the thing: The United States Supreme Court officially takes up the issue of whether to ponder whether Obama can become president in formal discussions today in Washington.

What? Yup! A similar case was thrown out earlier this fall, but Justice Clarence Thomas distributed the legal papers in Donofrio vs. Wells to his court colleagues for legal conference today.

Hardly anyone thinks the case has a serious chance of ...

... succeeding, given the court's distaste for hanging chads and public disfavor for its involvement in settling the Al Gore-George W. Bush presidential contest over Florida in 2000.

Similar conspiracy efforts were mounted over John McCain having been born in a U.S. naval hospital in the Panama Canal Zone, where his father was stationed. They too might well have proceeded had the Arizonan won on Nov. 4.

But just think what would happen if the court did consider blocking Obama's inauguration, with the world already having congratulated him and Obama's Cabinet half-formed, not to mention him already having resigned from the Senate. Oops.

You'll note that Sens. Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton have not yet taken that irreversible step. Just saying.

Our blogging colleague Frank James over at the Swamp has pulled together considerable material on the controversy:

A young Barack Obama now president-elect with a relative in Kenya his father's native country

The suit originally sought to stay the election, and was filed on behalf of Leo Donofrio against New Jersey Secretary of State Nina Mitchell Wells.

Legal records show it is only the tip of an iceberg of nationwide efforts seeking to derail Obama's election over accusations that he either wasn't born a U.S. citizen or that he later renounced his citizenship in Indonesia.

In one of those delicious ironies that makes life so interesting, the justice who distributed the case to his colleagues was none other than Thomas, only the second African American to sit on the high court. One presumes the justices saw some legal issue to mull.

A recent Tribune story wrote: "The most famous case questioning Obama's citizenship was filed in Pennsylvania in August on behalf of Philip J. Berg and sought to enjoin the Democratic National Committee from nominating Obama.

"The U.S. Supreme Court declined to accept the case. Earlier, a federal judge rejected it for "lack of standing" -- ruling that Berg had no legal right to sue. In cases like this, judges sometimes believe the matter is best left to political institutions, such as the Electoral College or Congress, according to legal scholar Eugene Volokh of the University of California at Los Angeles."

The remaining case with the highest profile is Donofrio vs. Wells. Because it was distributed by Justice Thomas to other justices, it gained undue importance for people unschooled in how the court works, Volokh said.

But it was. Now come the court's discussions. And presumably some decision on deciding.

James has more on this much-ignored story over here.

--Andrew Malcolm

Speaking of the Obama Cabinet and inauguration, we'll have full Ticket coverage. To get cellphone alerts on each new item, register here. RSS feeds are also available here.

Photo credit: Family via Associated Press

Comments () | Archives (304)

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The law is the law; produce the documents and get it over with as there can not be any credibility issues with the most powefull leader of the free world.

Do you really beleive the Democrats would run an ineligible candidate?

By the way, George Washington's father was born in England. I am a naturalized U.S. citizen born in a foreign country. When I was preparing my citizenship exam, I learned that the only two postions that I can not hold were the ofiice of the President and Vice-President of the United States. Obama is not a naturalized Amereican citizen. He was born on American soil; therefore, case is closed. On January 20th, 2009 let's all go to Washington to be part of history. STOP BABBLING AND BLOGGING NONSENSE! Obama is well on his way to becoming the greatest U.S. president ever.


a) For all you people spouting a written defination of "Natuaral Born Citizen" which is defined in the Constitution please show me. It is not. the only place citizen is really addressed is in the 14th amendment which states that anyone born in the United states is a Citizen of the United States, it places no caveat on the citizenship of the parents. You people who state that he had duel citiizenship and therefore is not a Natural Born Citizen. Why exactly are you stating this? The Constitution has not one word in it that says that in order to be a Natural Born Citizen both parents must be US Citizens.

The original verbage of the executive portion of the constitution is “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President”. Any logical person would interpret this as anyone born in the United States or Anyone who imigrated and was a citizen at the time of the constiution being adopted.

2) Second one needs to question if the Supreme Court has any authority in this matter. The constitution says the Electoral College Selects the president not the Supreme court. If the Electoral College determines that Obama meets the qualfications to be president, I'm not sure what authority the supreme court has. We have 3 coequal branches of the government.

3) I'd like to point out that if the theory some of you espose were true, than Chester A Arthur could not have been president. He was the son of a Baptist preacher who had emigrated from northern Ireland, and married in Canada before coming to the US where Chester was born shortly thereafter.

This certificate of live birth doesn't pass the sniff test for me. Since when is "African" considered a "race"? Weren't the terms "negro" or "colored" still being used to refer to the race of a person of color back in 1961?

"There is more to this issue then just if he was actually born in Kenya. There are unique requirements if only one parent is an American citizen. It is not enough that one parent is a an American citizen, there are also time requirements; how many years the parent lived inside the USA and how many of those years were after the age of 15.

So, in fact it is not just a question of the location of his actual birth, but other specific requirements of the citizenship law."
Actually if i recall hearing correctly you are half right... the age limit you mentioned only matters in cases where the birth in question takes place off of US soil. So long as the birth takes place on US soil then the age of the parents in question is irrelevant.

So the question of where Obama was born does still matter. If it was Kenya, then the age of his mother made him ineligible... if it was Hawaii, then the age of his mother is moot and he is still a born a US citizen

Grant it, there are those talking about him not being a natural born citizen due to being born with duel citizenship, however i have yet to see any kind of legal documents or laws that say that having "duel citizenship" means that your american citizenship is not considered "Natural born citizenship". i have seen much that said that you can have a foreign parent and still be considered a natural born citizen, but nothing saying that being having duel citizenship made you ineligible to be considered "natural born"... i not sure, but i would not be surprised if the constitution did state that the president must not have any citizenship other than american citizenship, however, the foreign citizenship that is granted through duel citizenship can be freely revoked at any time.

I think the case has merit and is not a waste of time. Once and for all we can maybe get the Supreme Court to define what "Natural Born" means legally. Does it mean they have to be born on U.S. Soil? Or does the nationality of the parents weigh in on the issue? Some illegal immigrates have children in the U.S. are those children considered Natural Born U.S. Citizens? If so, then it should work in reverse as well and any children of U.S. citizens born in other countries should be considered citizens of those countries. And then there is the whole issue of dual citizenship, how does that play into this issue? If one thinks about it, the only reason to have such a requirement was to keep foreign nationals from gaining control of the presidency as it might develop into a conflict of interest if said person still had allegiance to their native land. Same could be said of someone with dual citizenship. Of course, it's all a moot point, because even a totally Natural born U.S. citizen born on U.S. Soil to loyal U.S. Citizens could develop allegiance to another country and become president. Well, at least in theory they can. Oops almost started to go off on a rant. Anyway, I still think it is a very valid issue to resolve once and for all so we can stop worrying about it, regardless of what happens. Oh, and from my understanding the Supreme Court case was filed before the election, and it challenges both McCain and Obama's legal qualifications. And if you people really wanted change in this country you would have voted for Ron Paul, he's the only one who actually represented change and moving this country back towards constitutional governance. But you don't and you didn't and now you have to lie in the bed you made. Oops, that rant came out anyway. Sorry, never mind the man behind the curtain or the fool on the hill. Peace.

"All internet research says..." -- mark s

"Relying on blogs for anything other than a down-the-rabbit-hole view of the world is like trying to forecast the weather by looking in your closet." -- The Unknown Blogger

"The Internet is not so much an information superhighway as it is an information epidemic" -- Gene Spafford, seminal co-creator of the Internet and Usenet, nineteen-eighty-something

"... the Certification of Live Birth posted on the internet is NOT a birth certificate." -- Jose

"When *I* use a word," said Humpty Dumpty in a scornful tone, "it means precisely what I want it to mean -- no more and no less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether one *can* make words mean so many different things."
"The question *is*," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master -- that's all."
-- "Through the Looking Glass", Lewis Carroll

If you have a real birth certificate then what is the point of getting a certificate of live birth
was up bro!!!
why do both birth certificate states born alive or born still

It just amazes me, how many buffoons commenting on here saying "Ignore the Constitution !! Ignore the basic criteria ! The election is over, and our guy supposedly won !! Lets get on with the show.... HOW ABSURD. If any of you were hired to a job, after you had forged documents that presented you as having a Hardard JD, when in fact you had quit college in your second year, and lacked the proper credentials... would you still expect to retain your job at a prestigious law firm, after such an act of deceipt ? The bottom line is simple... there is a question about Barak Hussein Obama's eligibility to become the PResident of the United States. We don't care about his Hollywood backers, or he elite sponsors and all the money they raised for him. RULES are RULES and the Constitution is and has been our RULE OF LAW for several hundred years here people !!! Obama has simply to PROVE something really simple..and so far, he has NOT. He has dismissed it, dodged it, mocked it, and yet all the evidence, including his evasiveness in the media about this HUGE ISSUE< points to one fact... he is NOT a US Citizen. The Supreme Court, the highest court, supposed to protect its citizens and the Constitution above all else MUST conclude to HEAR OUT THIS proceeding. Barak Obama MUST PROVE his citizenship. That Hawaii document is an obvious forgery, for several reasons. Its unbelieveable that his campaign was dumb enough to submit something like this thinking it would go under the wire....
If the Supreme Court dismisses this, then this country is in for a perilous descent into ruin...where the Constitution has been completely dismissed from within, from within the ranks of the elite, who no longer consider this a Republic ruled by citizenry.
Obama, isn't even legally one of those, and its high time the man put his hand on the BIBLE and not the KORAN and swore to tell the truth, and submit legal documentation proving his natural born citizenry, a pre-requisite (it does not matter how many people voted for a non-citizen) to become the leader of the free world.

He cannot do it. This is why the Supreme Court MUST CHOOSE the Constitution and STOP this TRAVESTY at once. Fraudulent elections are not good for the future of this nation, nore are fraudulent people.

Not to mention, the guy is only 47 years old, and a crackpot with no experience to lead even a State. If he was a white guy from Louisiana, I'd be saying the same thing. I didn't vote in John Edwards either, even though he was more qualified than Clinton-Obama. Notice John Edwards isn't nominated as Secretary of State... the whole thing is a joke. The entire election, the politiking and the BS.

One thing that needs to be non-BS is the Supreme Courts rulings.

Barry is NOT a natural born US Citizen.

If Obama's lips are moving he is lying.

If he gets away with his lies. That is because it would open the way for the Kennedy family to get Arnald in the Oval office. I care about the constitution, I want to see Obama's birth certificate his school records and more. Every one I speak to even if they voted for Obama also wants to see his records. This will cause a revolution if not handled right. It seems only Obama has rights and the rest of us don't. I will fight until I see the truth. I know some blacks want to see a black man in the white house but not this one. He is not even black he is Mulatto and Kenyon black not at all related to the slave black decendents of America. Obama is a Constitution Attorney he has planned for a life time to bring down our country. Think where that will leave us. maybe a fouth world contry. No wonder he is getting so many death threats and the Muslims have said he will die because he changed his religion and that to them is a Capital punishment, meaning death.

A birth certificate can stop all but the Muslims, they will kill him and have people here alrady. It's jsut a matter of time.

Why do so many of you think this is about Republicans having lost the election. If Obama is disqualified, then Biden would be President, not McCain. This is about the constitution. If Obama is a man of truth then show the birth certificate. Why is he hiding it?

If someone is born on US soil, like Hawaii, it doesn't matter where his parents were born. He is a natural born US citizen. Period. This is not open to interpretation. The fact that Obama's father was from Kenya, and thus confers dual citizenship for Obama, doesn't make him any less of a natural born citizen. Why would any of you think that it would??? That doesn't make sense.

There are a lot of states that do not issue 'vault,' or long form, birth certificates. Hawaii is one of them, so it Washington. One of the states that does is Nebraska. Asking for a 'vault' certificate from a state that does not issue one is simply stupid.

As for those who are arguing about why Obama hasn't released any and all records of his, that's very simple. It's none of your business. The fact that some Presidential candidates have done so certainly doesn't mean that it's a requirement, and the majority of American's agreed with that. Get over it.

The fact that there are lawsuits doesn't mean that they have a valid basis. ANYONE can file a lawsuit. All it takes is filling out the papers and paying the filing fee.

Here's a question (actually pertinent to a family I know):

If someone is born outside the U.S. and one of his parents is a U.S. citizen, isn't that person still a natural-born U.S. citizen?

Posted by: starbug | December 05, 2008 at 06:38 AM


Here's where this gets complicated, Real Complicated!

First, let's look at John McCain. He was born in Panama. BUT, both of his parents were natural born Americans. His father was a commander in the Navy and stationed in Panama

Anyone born anywhere in the world, if BOTH Parents are natural born citizens, is declared a natural born citizen.

However, it's more complicated with Obama. His father was Kenyan. Kenya was a British Colony in 1961, thus making Obama's father a subject of the British Crown.

Now, his mother could have, in a grey area sort of way established Obama's natural born status, as SHE was a natural citizen.

But, under the 1961 law, Ann Dunham, Obama's mother, had to be at least 19 years of age. She was only 17 when she got pregnant, and 18 when Obama was born, thus, if he was born in Kenya, not Hawaii, he wasn't a United States citizen, period, end of story.

To complicate matters further, Hawaii allows folks who have had a child anywhere in the world, to register a Certificate Of Live Birth, making that kid a citizen. But not a Natural Born Citizen.

Article II, Section 1 of the United States Constitution requires one to be a natural born citizen. No ifs, ands, or buts!

lets all admit BO is god sent to save our economy.stop the nonsence issue of birth whatever, lets get down to business and do not distract BO he is busy getting people in the cabinet to help him fix the economy... what a shame that this issue has to come after the majority of the american people voted for him,,, stop it stop it i am tired of people who can not help the eocomy and destroy this man BO . let us give BO the chance to fix our econmy and hope for the best thing to come.

There is a great misunderstanding amongst all the posters here it seems. The constitution specifically says natural born citizen. It does not say citizen. The terminology means BOTH parents were US citizens AND you were born in the US yourself. Being a US citizen is not enough. I am very liberal. I feel W should have been impeached and put into prison long ago. I think the Patriot Act is as unconstitutional as you can get, no knock warrants are an affront to the people and this govenment is out of control. However, no matter who introduces what question or suit, the office of President has certain requirements. I would not want the governor of California to be president. He is a nut job. He is also not elegible under the constitution. I am glad Obama won and hope he will be president. That being said he has been trained in law and he knows the answer to this question. He needs to present evidence that he is qualified under the laws of this country. He needs to lay this aside or he needs to be a real citizen and step aside. I hate Bush, he has ruined this country and trod on the consititution at every turn. He did so with the blessing of congress. Most of them need to be turned out for allowing this crap. But putting someone who is not qualified to be in office as the president is an even greater slap in our faces. Please step forward and clear this matter BO. BTW I also feel the SCOTUS had no right to hand the election to W in the beginning. They should have all be ashamed of themselves for over reaching their mandate.

The point of fact is, in the USA we have "Birth of the soil" not the blood. If he WAS NOT BORN HERE his parents origin is MOOT. He has denied access to his addmission records, his Birth cert, is sealed in HI , he can make this all go AWAY by opening them all. He did not make full AKA discloser to the IL BAR. This man is hidding something. As an American born birth of the soil as were MY parents I want him to open the files, records or what ever it is he is standing on. When he does this, simple enought, then I will be satisfied! Until then you robots and fools who disregard the Constitution can get the Phuck out of here! This is NOT a Democracy, Democracy is NOT freedom , Idiots, you have been trained to accept nonsense and word meaning changes. The United States of America is a Constitutional Republic! Recite the pledge and READ the costitution! No where is democracy meantioned, not once. So, Mr. Obama produce the records, stop hiding with legal crap Mr. Harvard! Then we can all lay this to rest once and for all.

Everybody needs to contact there US Sen and push for the removal of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. This did not make any since, Justice wanted to make headlines and administer law from the bench. Now since these Court is right wing it is a good chance that the issue is taken up.

This is some BS and the Party Leaders need to make a trip to the Court and find out the hell Clarence sell out uncle Tom ass is trying to do.

He want stand up for the people but places his noise in presidental election that's over. This dude is a sell out and I hope we can through him out, sorry motherfucking negro.

As others have pointed out, factcheck, snopes & others have already debunked this nonsense. Still, some repeat the idiocy they read somewhere on the internet, "but a live certificate of birth is not a birth certificate. Nevermind that the head of the agency in Hawaii, (who happens to be a Rebublican btw) has made public statements attesting to the validity that he was indeed born in Hawaii. Nevermind that there was a birth announcement published in the local newspaper at the time of his birth.

Apparantly these fools staged a protest in front of the Supreme Court and a whopping 15 people showed up. I'm sure each one there represented 15 more of the lunatic fringe.

Psssst. Your desperation shows and is so pathetic it's funny. Keep it up. I need a good laugh in these stressful times. I have no doubt that this nonsense will continue throughout President Obama's presidency. I'll buy plenty of popcorn.

this stories are a continuetion of obama's opposition fighting to see how they unseat him, but it is too late to lie about the truth. we should all know that victory without battle goes without honour.
the battle continues anyway, we are not afraid of battles and we are doing what we supposed to do now: appiontment the A-team cabinet for the winning team-obama.
the republicans have had their day and could not deliver. they should allow change that we can believe.
this kind of false accusations and lies are are a purposefull fight against change from our opponnent. we are used to it, but indeed YES WE CAN.

is it to much to ask for the original? I had to produce it just to get my drivers liscence. He wants to be president and is keepin his locked up, why?

The REAL ISSUE here is not the fact that BO wan not born here, I have a problem with him trying to hide the TRUTH. Now tell me, why would he want to have all of his history locked up so nobody can see the REAL INFO? What is he hiding? What other lies has he not divulged during the campaign other than every time he opened his mouth? What other cards does he have up his sleeve to destroy the AMERICAN way of life? Why won't he just come out and say he is promoting socialism and wants the USA to become the USSA, just like his mentor Rev Wright has stated and his good friend Bill Ayres is promoting, along with countless others surrounding themselves around BO. You 52% that voted for him make me sick. You people are the reason why people in other countries think Americans a re stupid and weak. Maybe we should take lessons from the Israelis, the Russians, the Chinese, the North Koreans, etc etc etc and behead those trying to destroy our way of life and us...THANK GOD FOR PRESIDENT BUSH, IF GORE WAS IN THERE WE WOULD STILL BE TURNING THE OTHER CHEEK WITH MORE AND MORE TERRORIST BOMBINGS GOING ON...WHO KNOWS, IF GORE WAS IN THERE, JOSE PADILLA WOULD STILL BE ON THE RUN AND HAVE SET OFF A COUPLE OF DIRTY (NUCLEAR) BOMBS AND KILLED THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS AS WOULD OTHER TERRORIST CELLS IN THIS COUNTRY...PRESIDENT BUSH STOOD UP AND SAID "NO MORE"...YOU SHOULD TAHNK HIM FOR YOUR SORRY BUTTS STILL BEING HERE

The racism and hatred from Obama supporters against arguments that Obama is not qualified to be POTUS due to DUAL citizenship is amazing. Will we soon say, "Heil Obama?" As a Democrat, I'm disillusioned at the destruction of the great liberal mindset. A Liberal today is a cold hearted fascist. Allowing millions of illegal immigrants into the USA, plus Hispanics from the Caribbean, Arabs and Blacks from Africa - has tilted the Judeo Christian ethnic nature of America into a mental sludge where intelligence is ridiculed and barbaric jungle thinking celebrated. An intelligent response to the Supreme Court's inquiry of Obama's dual citizenship is: deal with it fairly and in the open. What is there to hide? Doesn't pass the smell test!!

If the Electoral College decides that Obama is properly qualified when they consider him for President on Dec 15 then it's end of story.
All Obama has to do is to produce to them his genuine authentic Hawaiin Birth Certificate that he has been saving for the occasion.
I don't know if the Electoral College will be allowed to have forensic experts check that the document is genuine. I don't know how long they will be permitted to complete the check if it is allowed.
BUT I do know that millions of Obamabots will be standing by to riot if the Electoral College decides not to elect Obama.

The fact is that Obama has 3 three law firms fighting in this case. Why? It just makes it appear he is hiding something.

If the constitution prohibits Obama's POTUS eligibility, then it also prohibited Van Buren's eligibility. By the right-wing nutjobs' reasoning, Van Buren was not a citizen although he was born in the U.S.

Van Buren's mother was not born in the U.S. (dutch) and his father could not have been a U.S. citizen given the date of his birth (prior to the formal existence of a U.S.). Van Buren was also not a founding father since he was born in 1782.

The only difference between Obama's parents' heritage and Van Buren's parents' heritage is that Obama's African father's citizenship is contrasted against Van Buren's Dutch mother's citizenship.

If the President-Elect is deemed ineligible, the 20th Amendment resolves it.

20th Amendment - "...If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the PRESIDENT ELECT shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified."

What a bunch of nonsense!
If Obama were truly not eligible to be president, Hillary Clinton would have used that during the Democratic primaries. McCain would have certainly used such powerful ammunition; IF IT WERE TRUE!!!
Get over it, people!

These lawsuits started some time ago but the liberal media chose to ignore them. Instead, getting on the bandwagon for BO and trashing the Republican candidates. These allegations are not new. BO has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to lawyers to fight this. Whereas he could have very simply produced his original birth certificate. This isn't brain surgery's not like pulling teeth or a root canal. BO wants parts of his past hidden.

It all centers around The Constitution of The United States of America. Once we lose the structure of The Constitution we all lose.

The Democrat Party certainly DID NOT do it's job of properly vetting BO.!

But now some in the liberal media are saying they know nothing about BO's past...well duh. If you would have done your job correctly as responsible journalists that would have been great. But emails and calls to the liberal media from concerned citizens fell on deaf and dumb ears....thank you liberal media! Why are his school records hidden? Perhaps because his records list him as a foreign student? Plus the problems with his Selective Service Registration. He has used 4 or 5 different names in the past and campaigned for Odinga in October! There is way too much the American people DO NOT know about him. The liberal media chose not to report any of this until now....shame on you.

Bashing of Sarah Palin was done without confirming the sources. And now liberal media says they were mistaken because their stories were not confirmed. A little too late doncha think?? Again thank you liberal media.

The liberal media has lost millions of viewers and have no one to blame but themselves for that and the current mess that has snowballed over the past several months concerning BO's past.

What makes all of you people think that there is a difference between a 'native born' and a 'natural born' citizen? They mean the exact same thing.

This is like the MIA hoaxes and the Kennedy assasination theories. A bunch losers imagining plots to fill their empty

" Usualy photo copies are made from the original document on file and then stamped with the seal from the issuing facility, and signed by an legally notarized representative from that organization."

This depends on the state. Some have the originals to photocopy and some don't. Hawaii does not do it, neither does Washington.

A Certificate of Live Birth IS a birth certificate. The certificate from the hospital is not a legal document. It is issued by the hospital as a courtesy to the parents, nothing more.

Where are all of you getting your weird interpretations??

Obama has responded to every lawsuit filed against him. He has not responded to those that have not been filed against him. Why should he?

No evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii is going to change your minds. I even seen several posts on here that state that if the Supreme Court rules that he is a natural born citizen, then the Supreme Court is not following the Constitution. In other words, it doesn't matter what is produced, you are not going to believe it. If you are not going to believe it anyway, why do you keep acting like it's some kind of conspiracy

I don't know whether Obama is qualified or not. However, I take exception to those of you who claim that "the people have spoken" or that the people elected him as their president and this should not be overturned. I object to that line of reasoning, because if he is not qualified, then the people who voted for him didn't know who that were voting for. They were hoodwinked. For that reason there should be no hesitation in barring him from office if he is found to be unqualified. Even more, if he isn't qualified, many campaign contributors may want to sue him for their money, and criminal charges should be brought against him.

I hardly think the Supreme Court will touch this case, leaving it to the Electoral College and Congress, which will pass on the whole thing as well.
So it begins, as it did with Bill Clinton. The right wing is bound and determined to undermine Barack Obama's presidency. But not this time, not now; the election result was a repudiation of these tactics.

I wanted Obama to win. Period.

He needs to produce an actual birth certificate. Frankly I do not care what someone in Hawaii says or anything else. None of this would still be going on if he would just show the certificate.

Those who blindly get emotional because he's their guy are still just that: blind. Step back and look at it objectively.

I hope he produces the certificate. I hope he's inaugurated. What will happen if the court decides that something is fishy here will be extremely dangerous for the stability of our country and the rest of the world.

I have already shown PROOF that McCain was not born in a U.S. naval hospital in the Panama Canal Zone. (linked above)

John McCain, widely reported to have been born in the Panama Canal Zone in the Coco Solo Naval Hospital, COULD NOT have been born in Coco Solo Hospital and probably wasn't born in the Canal Zone at all.

The Coco Solo Hospital was not even built until after 1941and the nearest hospital to the base was in Panama Proper (in Colon, Republic of Panama), NOT the US Administered Canal Zone and NOT on a US military base.

According to Franklin D. Roosevelt's "Executive Order 8981 - NAVY HOSPITAL AREA, COCO SOLO, CANAL ZONE " Dated *1941* (remember McCain was born in 1936) The executive order lays out the boundaries for the land that the hospital would eventually be built on.

Anyone who is foolish enough to not want to question obama and this issue of citizenship should leave this country now. I am sick and tired of the "educated elite" in this country that bad mouth anyone who questions the SYSTEM. That is what your education did to you; it damned you from ever questioning anything.

Wake up for once and realize that there is more going on behind the scenes than you will ever know. And it's easy to just play it off as someone having to weak a foil hat in order to question the system. obama is not a true american. why do athletes, actors and musicians generate more interest, gossip and QUESTIONS than our presidential process? Why is it ok to ask what brittney spears had for lunch, but a sin to ask a president elect where he was born??? Come on you sheep...wake up!!! Have you no concern for your future? Do you really not care that much what happens to our ONCE great country???? You foolish americans have yet to pay for your sins of ignorance. maybe next time we can all text in our votes for president and ryan seacrest can make the final decision.

it does not matter if he was born in hawaii, the law from Dec. 24, 1952 to Nov. 13, 1986, Presidential office requires a natural-born citizen if the child was not born to two U.S. Citizen parents, which of course is what exempts John McCain though he was born in the Panama Canal. US Law very clearly stipulates: “…If only one parent was a U.S. Citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16.” Barack Obama’s father was not a U.S. Citizen and Obama’s mother was only 18 when Obama was born, which means though she had been a U.S. Citizen for 10 years, (*or* citizen perhaps because of Hawaii being a territory) the mother fails the test for being so for at least 5 years **prior to** Barack Obama’s birth, but *after* age 16. It doesn’t matter *after* . In essence, she was not old enough to qualify her son for automatic U.S. Citizenship. At most, there were only 2 years elapsed since his mother turned 16 at the time of Barack Obama’s birth when she was 18 in Hawaii. His mother would have needed to have been 16 5= 21 years old, at the time of Barack Obama’s birth for him to have been a natural-born citizen. As aforementioned, she was a young college student at the time and was not. Barack Obama was already 3 years old at that time his mother would have needed to have waited to have him as the only U.S. Citizen parent. Obama instead should have been naturalized, but even then, that would still disqualify him from holding the office.

1. Obama is SHADY. He has lied and hidden much. His entire family is Sunni and his second dad died in Jihad.
2. His first bill in 1997 was an attempt to sponsor Islamist Day SR_0110
3. He has hired to NON "african american" people and passed them off as "african american" Valerie Johnson is from IRAN and Eric Holder is Alledgedly from barbados yet sympathizes with terrorists and was implicated in FALN and had to testify.

It is not unreasonable for us to question this guy. In fact, questioning authority IS quite sane.

Perhaps: we have a Manchurian Candidate among our midst.

I got it!!!!!!!!!!!

We have to have everyone come forward with birth certificates from that same month and year and then compare them to this Birth Certificate.

Pass the word!

By the way, Hawaii is one of the most LIBERAL states in the union.

Why hasn't Obama simply provided the documents that will prove his legitimacy to be president? I think it's pretty obvious that he's hiding something that would have prevented him from being elected. Barry is a smart slick lawyer/politician. He knows that if he keeps stalling on this issue until after he gets settled into office that it's going to be just too damned late to oust him without causing extreme havoc in this country. This makes him just a typical politician who puts his own ambitions ahead of the Constitution and the good of the country. All the people that are saying it's too late to check his qualifications because he's already been elected are falling for Hussein's fraudulent ploy.
So show us the documents Mr. Obama. Please prove me and all the other who want some transparency in your past to be just a bunch of right "wingnuts".

GetOverIt at 03:23 AM:
"Nevermind that the head of the agency in Hawaii, (who happens to be a Rebublican btw) has made public statements attesting to the validity that he was indeed born in Hawaii. "

This is simply NOT TRUE, and endlessly repeating the big lie does not make it true.

The HI DOH Director Chiyome Fukino.actually issued the following carefully worded statement: "I ... have personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

How about it, GetOverIt ... where does that say he was born in Hawaii? (Remember that HI procedures allow for registration of out-of-state births.)

Constitutional issues should be taken with consideration. If we forsake the U.S. Constitution, Then the government ceases to exist. I am for keeping our government and keeping the "Constitution" intact. We need to continue to protect our country and bide by the "Constitution" for which the "Founding Fathers" were so careful to create in our best interest.

Thank you,

Obama should have just provided it a long time ago.
There is not reason to keep it locked up.
I think the Jun - 2007 in reverse on the form is a stamp of some kind.

We have to produce Birth certs when getting drivers lic.
The presidnet should do it as well.

The requirements to become president are bifold: (i) citizenship and (ii) natural-born. Thus, Gov. Schwartenegger cannot become President because although he is a citizen, he was born in Germany.

The Hawaiian certificate posted on-line is a secondary record based upon the initial document, which is typically referred to as the vault certificate setting forth the hospital/doctor and signed by the physician. By statute, Hawaii from 1911 to l972 permitting the obtaining of a birth certificate after the age of one year by submitting an affidavit of the parent(s) or even the individual. This statute was enacted because many individuals in the Hawaiian islands were not born at a hospital and found themselves without a birth certificate. Thus, it is possible that Obama's mother or grandmother obtained a birth certificate for Obama post-birth by affidavit. If this is true, then some credence has to be granted to the assertions of Obama's paternal grandmother that he was born in Kenya. Of course, all of this could be put to rest if Obama would just produce the "vault" certificate. However, in spite of numerous lawsuits, he has failed to produce it thereby fueling speculation. Politicians, by nature, are risk-takers: one only look at John edwards (affair and child); jim mcgreevy (homosexual) or elliott spitzer (prostitution) to see how it is not uncommon for candidates to go forward with their campaigns despite facts that, if know, would preclude their election. Of course, it seems somewhat improbable that Obama's mother traveled all the way to Kenya to give birth. However, it would be best for Obama to put an end to all the lawsuits and produce the "vault" certificate.

By the way, the statement by the Hawaiian department of health was very carefully couched: they verified that they had documentation, but, obviously did not address the contents or form of documentation. I have not addressed the other claims relating to Obama's birth status - i.e. British citizenship, adoption, relinquishment of citizenship etc., because, frankly, I am not sufficiently conversant with the arguments (and applicable law). However, the 1911-1972 statute is available on-line at the Department of Health for Hawaii website if you look for it. I think that, at the least, Obama should produce the "vault" certificate.


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It is evident that he is not a natural born american; he is intelligent. Furthermore, it is claimed that he was born by caeserian surgery, and that is not natural born. To inaugerate him as president would violate the sanctity of natural birth. willi

SHEEPLE! YOU ARE ALL WRONG. DON'T LET THE PRESS DEFINE THE ISSUE FOR YOU. It doesn't matter where he was born. Heather is the only poster that seems to understand this. Obama is stuck with the laws in effect at the time he was born. If both parents are US citizens, there is a set of rules. Unless BOTH were US citizens, there is a different set of requirements to be natural born. His mother must be in the US for 10 years before giving birth, 5 OF WHICH MUST BE AFTER THE AGE OF 14. (in other words, she must reach age 19 before giving birth) Obama's father is not a US citizen and his mother gave birth when she was 18. That is all you need to know. He can't be the president.

Do you realize the implications? Every directive he signs, every treaty he executes, virtually everything he does is void of authority?

This provision of the constitution is an anti-terrorism provision. What if the US or a friendly country goes to war with Kenya? Obama has already received high security briefings. The highest security in the nation has been divulged to him BEFORE his qualification was questioned - while you and me must take our shoes off to get on a plane.

My guess? The corrupt supreme court will find a way not to hear the case. Or they will make it an issue on the Hawaiian birth. No way will they hear the Berg case because that one will end Obama's presidency.

Factcheck is owned by Annenberg. Obama sat on the board of Annenberg. How stupid can you be to use Factcheck as an authority on this controversy?

have you noticed down at the bottom of the birth certificate it says 70 02 - 8 - (25) backwards?

jt's pretty hard to read but it looks like somebody wrote it in pen. It shows it pretty clearly. And why is there at the top certificate no: and a long black line across the page. If the Hawain officials say that it is under lock and key how did the fatcheck people get it?

I think the Fight The Smears website is not owned by Obama himself. Fatcheck must own it as well as the same certificate was on the website.

And Obama refuses to release the original document. Why dosen't he release the real one for all to see like McCain did when immediately requested by the Obama campaign in the begining?

Think about what has happened and forget about your personal desires....three candidates for president have been placed on the ballot in every state in the union with questionable having been born in Nicaragua. The parties responsible for doing this are obviously colluding to force constitutional change illegally. Our country is now under siege from within and the Supreme Court is now considering the proper course of action. Let's hope they opt to continue our method of government because it is entirely possible they will rule the constitution unconstitutional and if that happens this country may well fall into a civil war the likes of which it has never seen making the conflict between the North and the South look like child's play!

What a bunch of Obama Morons I don't care what color he is or if he's Jesus Christ incarnate or the AntiChrist. He refuses to clear the issue up once and for all. All the hype about parents and bull is just that. If he was born on American Soil he would be a natural American. Try the Anchor Baby law. If he gave that up, voluntarily or not(his adoptive father seems to have put him in a muslim school in Indonesia and he would have been made a naturalized citizen there) he is probably not a natural citizen in the US. If any of that is actual truth then he is not eligible. The one thing I do know is that our constitution HAS to be upheld or we have nothing. it's not a white or black thing or any other nefarious issue. If he is a natural citizen the prove it or step down. By the way morons, he isn't even close to the first "African" American president. There were 4 before him. Abraham Lincoln was half black. It also bothers the hell out of me that he totally shuns the fact that he is half white. As far as I'm concerned he isn't jack. Regardless he should put up or shut up. Just the fact that he is taking a lot of action NOT to prove his citizenship gives one cause for worry. Does anyone else care that he can't pass a background check to even be an FBI agant or Secret Servise guard due to his past aquaintances? He aint the messiah. You get over it. He appears to be dirty. I say if it walks like a duck......

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