Live blogging Barack Obama and John McCain's presidential debate: The nominees come out swinging

(UPDATE: A copy of the complete debate transcript is available here.)

Parting thoughts: So Bill Ayers, despite all the huffing and puffing about him going into the debate, was a no-show in the debate rhetoric -- and for that, voters who wanted the nominees to focus on the future probably were thankful.

But those voters also might have been disappointed by what, to us, was the lack of a clear, clarion call from either Barack Obama or John McCain on how the country -- under a new administration -- will confront what appear to be unprecedented economic challenges.

McCain provided one surprise by using the forum to unveil what he called a new plan to have the Treasury Department come to the aid of homeowners struggling to renegotiate their mortgages. But it was unclear how that expands on -- if at all -- the role the agency will play under the sweeping financial rescue plan signed into law last week. (The Obama camp, in a post-debate e-mail, insists it does not.) Nor did McCain elaborate on or spotlight his proposal after laying it on the table.

Too often, the men yammered over their Senate voting records -- symptomatic, as we noted below, of a congressional mentality that doesn't translate well in a presidential debate.

More vision -- something Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan would have spun out effortlessly -- would have better served Obama's and McCain's purposes.

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7:30 p.m. What Brokaw terms a question with a “certain Zen-like quality” to it ends the proceedings. The nominees are asked, “What don’t you know and how will you learn it?”

Presented with that variation of the perennial job interview query most of us dread –- What are your shortcomings? –- Obama pretty much punted....

...while McCain gave it a shot before moving on.

The Democrat used the question to remind voters that he –- like most of them -– came from “modest means.” He then drove home the basic rationale for his candidacy –- a call for “fundamental change” from the eight years of the Bush administration.

McCain acknowledged that he, like all of us, doesn’t know what the future holds –- “what’s going to happen. Both here and abroad.”

He then used that to segue to the basic rationale for his candidacy -– that he offers the experience, the “steady hand” to shepherd the nation through unanticipated challenges.

7:25 p.m. As the discussion turns to Russia’s recent assertiveness in central Europe, Obama gives an answer that might have attracted little interest a month ago but may have sounded a wrong note now.

McCain said that America has to “show moral support” for Georgia, Ukraine and other nations feeling threatened by Russia. Obama said more than that is needed –- he calls for “financial assistance” from the U.S. to help such countries build their economies.

Given the state of America’s finances, public support for increasing the foreign-aid budget probably is not high.

7:19 p.m. The senators, with Brokaw’s assent, throw the debate guidelines by the board and engage directly and aggressively on U.S. policy toward Pakistan.

It begins with McCain asserting that Obama was foolish to threaten to “invade” Pakistan to fight terrorists.

Obama, in turn, charges McCain with misrepresenting his position. “Nobody called for the invasion of Pakistan,” Obama says. Obama repeats the policy that he first laid out in a speech more than a year ago, when he was one of many candidates in a crowded Democratic primary field, that if Pakistan is “unable or unwilling” to hunt down Osama bin Laden and his terrorist allies, he would do so.

McCain repeats his assertion that Obama displayed his inexperience by threatening to “invade” Pakistan.

Obama takes this as an opportunity to bring up one of McCain's worst gaffes: the comment in which McCain joked that America should "bomb, bomb, bomb Iran."

7:14 p.m. We now bring you an update from our mole who is watching the debate over at NBC studios in Burbank, where Jay Leno just finished taping "The Tonight Show."

Our spy reports that Leno will deliver this line about the debate on his show: "It's a town-hall format, which is John McCain's favorite way to speak to crowds. As opposed to Barack Obama's favorite way, a sermon on a mount."

7:08 p.m. As the debate hits its hour mark, the subject turns to what would have dominated the discussion a year ago –- foreign affairs.

McCain repeats what was his mantra in the first debate –- Obama “does not understand” the nation’s national security responsibilities.

Obama, who some thought too often allowed that assertion to go unchallenged in the first debate, focuses on Iraq and seeks to turn the charge on its head.

Recalling his opposition –- as an Illinois state senator –- to the congressional resolution authorizing force in Iraq, he says yes, he does not “understand how we invaded a country that had nothing to do with” the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

"And it’s been costly to us," he adds, focusing on the “enormous strain” the war has put on the federal budget –- a point that may carry more force against the backdrop of the economic turmoil.

6:59 p.m. The debate is approaching its hour mark and, as yet, one notable name has yet to be uttered –- Bill Ayers, the Vietnam-era radical who ultimately became a college professor and played a role in the start of Obama’s political career. He has dominated much of the campaign dialogue since the weekend, and some McCain supporters were hoping that he would broach Obama’s link to Ayers as a way to question the Democrat’s judgment.

Nor, for that matter, has Iraq or Afghanistan figured in the debate.

Instead, the debate has centered on domestic issues.

On a deceptively simple question –- Is health care a privilege, a right or a responsibility? –- a key difference between the men emerges, completely in line with their differing political philosophies.

McCain terms it a responsibility, Obama a right.

This divergence almost assuredly will get vigorously dissected in the days to come.

6:57 p.m. In answer after answer, the men can’t resist arguing over their prospective records and how they voted on this bill or that bill, despite the general perception that both the questioners in the hall and the audience in general would prefer forward-looking responses.

This may, in part, be one of the wages of having senators squaring off –- they simply can’t resist lapsing into the tried-and-true debating habits of legislators.

6:53 p.m. Asked how swiftly his administration would address environmental issues, especially global warming, McCain seizes the opportunity to distance himself from the man he is seeking to replace as leader of the Republican Party (as well as president). “I have disagreed strongly with the Bush administration on this issue,” he says, touting his credentials as one who has called for a more aggressive government policy on global warming.

He then mentions nuclear power as something he would aggressively promote as president and criticizes Obama as an opponent of such efforts.

Obama charges McCain with misrepresenting his record, saying, “I favor nuclear power as one component of our overall energy mix.”

6:47 p.m. Asked about offering a long-term plan to ensure the solvency of Social Security and Medicare, Obama briefly pledges to try to do that during a first term. He declines Brokaw’s invitation that he commit to doing so within his first two years in office.

But what he really wants to do is dispute McCain’s characterization of him an unvarnished tax hiker. “The straight-talk express lost a wheel on that one,” Obama says. He then lays out his call for repealing tax cuts enacted under President Bush for the affluent –- those families with incomes exceeding $250,000 a year –- and cutting taxes for others.

Obama has referred several times to the truthlessness of some of McCain's claims about him. McCain, meanwhile, has been swinging at Obama hard, leaving Obama largely on the defensive. But that doesn't mean that McCain is winning. Several times McCain has turned to Obama to pose sarcastic questions -- that could appear mean to voters watching at home.

6:45 p.m. Two quick things about body language: First, McCain is moving around the stage quite a bit -- he is sitting and writing instead of looking at the audience, then standing up when Obama is talking. Obama seems more relaxed.

And as the always-observant Andrew Malcolm notes: Both nominees are left-handed! Like several other recent presidents.

6:43 p.m. Brokaw is trying hard to get the nominees to limit their responses to two minutes. Brokaw say that if the nominees don't mind the time limit, "We're going to have larger deficits than the federal government does."

6:41 p.m. An Internet question comes from “a child of the depression,” asking each candidate what sacrifices, as president, they would demand of citizens who –- despite a raft of crises in recent decades -- have not been asked to make any meaningful sacrifices as of yet.

McCain says he would ask Americans if there will be some government programs “that we may have to eliminate.” He then reiterates his previous call for a spending freeze on all programs but defense, veterans benefits and a selected, unnamed few others.

Obama does not identify a specific government program that he would cut or abolish. Instead, he talks about the need for citizens to start making sacrifices in the ways they live their daily lives. He also disagrees with the call for an across-the-board spending freeze, saying that would be unfair.

6:34 p.m. McCain takes a pass when Brokaw asks him to rank what he would deal with first -- healthcare, the cost of entitlement programs (such as Social Security) or energy. The Republican says all three can be dealt with at the same time.

Obama says energy is most important.

6:31 p.m. A questioner cuts to the chase: How can either party be trusted to grapple with the daunting problems facing the nation?

Obama says he understands “both your frustration and your cynicism.” He then, again, lays much of the blame on President Bush. But then, perhaps realizing that the blame game is exactly what voters don’t want to hear, he talks about his plans. A priority, he says, will be dealing with healthcare costs. Another will be energy costs and its supply.

McCain also spends much of his answer on criticism, labeling Obama a liberal who has no track record of dealing with problems in a bipartisan way. Only at the tail end of his answer does he discuss his goals, mentioning his focus on increasing domestic energy production.

6:14 p.m. Brokaw begins the proceedings on an ominous note, saying that “We still don’t know where the bottom is at this time” with the economy. And the first audience question concerns the nominees' plans to deal with the economic crisis, especially as it is affecting the elderly.

Obama, answering first, gets off his chair, approaches the questioner and reiterates his belief that the country is paying the price for the failed policies of a Republican administration. He also stresses his belief that he is well suited to grapple with the nation’s economic woes. McCain, when it’s his turn, outlines the high points of his economic plan, including providing mortgage relief to some homeowners. Neither directly address the particular problems of older citizens.

McCain does take a veiled shot at Obama, telling his rival “it’s good to be with you at a town-hall meeting.” It's a reference to Obama avoiding McCain’s standing invitation throughout the summer to join him at such forums.

He takes another shot at Obama while answering the second question, "How will the fiscal recovery package help people?" He slams Obama for his ties to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Obama, when it's his turn to speak, lashes back, reminding McCain that one of McCain's campaign managers, Rick Davis,  lobbied for Fannie Mae in the past.

It's a nonsensical thing to argue over: Both Obama and McCain have advisers who have connections with the companies.

6:06 p.m. It’s show time! The nominees are on stage, and the debate is about to begin.

There was a coin toss to determine who would answer each question first, and Obama won that privilege. He also won the coin toss that determined who answered first in the first debate. And his running mate, Joe Biden, won the coin toss to answer first during the vice presidential debate.

The New York Times recently wrote about McCain's propensity to gamble, but it looks like the Democrats may be luckier when it comes to tossing coins.

5:56 p.m. Moderator Tom Brokaw is on stage, prepping the audience. His main point: This encounter is about the nominees and their responses, not audience reaction. So he rather sternly warned the crowd to curb its enthusiasm.

As for the structure of the debate, the nominees will answer questions from the audience (made up of about 80 likely voters from the Nashville area) and from the Internet (more than 6 million questions were submitted online). Each candidate will have two minutes to answer each question, and then there will be a short period for rebuttal.

Although Brokaw had a hand in picking the questions, he will not be allowed to ask follow-ups or make comments. The person who asks the question also will not be allowed to ask follow-ups. Too bad.

5:42 p.m. Hello! And welcome to the second presidential debate. In just a few moments, Barack Obama and John McCain will take the stage at Belmont University in Nashville, Tenn., to answer questions from voters.

If the photo to the left is any indication, the stage will be very clean. We don't expect the same of the debate itself. 

Indeed, as our Peter Wallsten notes, the campaign has taken a dirty turn since the nominees met last. Both campaigns have unleashed a barrage of attack ads, and the nominees have toughened up on the stump. McCain's running mate, Sarah Palin, said it best at a recent campaign rally in California: "The gloves are off," she told the cheering crowd.

We will be live blogging the debate. If you'd like to watch along with us, we will be streaming it live here.

Stay tuned.

-- Don Frederick/Kate Linthicum

Photo credits, from the top:
Jim Bourg / AP
Mark Humphrey / AP
Mark Wilson / Getty Images
Jim Bourg / AP
Ron Edmonds / AP

Comments

[RICK SIEGEL]

he pulled a Palin. Why answer the question when he has something else to say.

[Marc Jackson]

John McCain does not look healthy or maybe he just looks awkward in this format...

[Cynthia Besio]

Why can't they just answer the question instead of slinging mud? Do they think people who are watching haven't heard it all before? We are listening to get ANSWERS! Both are failing at this point.

[Zach Schuyler]

I am very surprised that they do not even touch the topic on industrial hemp... It has the ability to completely replace all fossil fuels. It even grows without chemical farming. Yet the government remains to be stubburn due to the taboo on the word hemp.

[john]

This blog sucks. Fire whoever is running this.

[Mike]

i think obama is doing pretty well

[john]

LA Times live blogging? Great, just declare Obama the winner already and get it over with.

[Rose]

Did I hear McCain say "we're the best importers" ???

[awag]

McPalin is too old!!!

[KK]

McCain is tanking...i watch the voters graph lines and whenever McCain talks it goes down.

[Danny]

$860 B in new spending by Obama? Sounds bad per McCaine. Reality, McCaine will spend more. What a liar.

[Enough]

McCain.....Ok in 25 minutes we now know how much you love to work with those across the aisle.

Now answer the question.

[KK]

flatline McCain...stop taking Obama's policies!

[Once a Conservative]

McCain is right - we need more tax cuts for the guys who got the bail out, I hear they're hurting :-(

[Bill Nahay]

John McCain

TAKE OFF THE GLOVES!

Bill

[N. Ziemer]

Very nice that theres live videos all of the internet showing the debates going on right now....

but guess what? NONE of that means SQUAT since the Concil on Presidentaial Debates continue to purposefully omit closed captioning for the approximately 32 Million Deaf and Hard of Hearing Americans. I'm one of them since birth.

That's just the TIP of the iceberg... we're not even COUNTING the millions who lose their hearing as the baby boomers continue to age.

So... just like the Tsunami that hit certain areas in a flash... the country has NO IDEA the influence of Deaf Hard of hearing voters will have come Election Day.

Talk about a nasty Election Day Surprise.

[boop]

OMG-- McCain is breathing heavy and gasping-- PLUS REPEATING himself-- memorized lines--- I almost thought he might fall over. I think we need to go with the younger fellow!! plus the younger one is more sane and has integrity

[Bill Carey]

Obama wants to add regulations to try and fix the mess that the regulations he supported in the past to force banks to make bad loans to people who can't pay them back. Wake up, he a socialist who wants the government to be your mother and father. Is that what you want?

[Andrew Berman]

I'm waiting for them to move off their talking points and actually address the questions that are asked!

[Keisha Thomas]

Its amazing how John McCain discussed Sen Obama's spending plan, his own budget cuts, but failed to discuss his spending plans and Obama's cuts.

[Ben]

Clean coal has not been tested and may contaminate drinking water. Coal is on its way out why is McCain trying to bring it back.

[Carol]

Why doesn't health care discussion ever include anything about preventative care coverage? How about universal preventative, alternative medicine coverage, help people pay for nutrients, vitamins, herbs, accupuncture, stress management, health club memberships and behavior modification for healtful living?

[J]

Sure seems that Tom Brokaw is favoring his buddy McCain. He gives a question to Obama which gives McCain time to come up with something to counter it and then Obama isn't allowed a rebuttal. I'm sure that's part of the platform they agreed to, but it seems not really fair.

I"ll keep watching to see if Brokaw gives McCain a question first and then allows Obama to rebut it.

I also hated the Palin/Biden format in which everyone was afraid to call Palin on her stupidity. That isn't a real debate.

Let's have some back and forth in these things.

[Seth Thomas]

McCain says that the government should buy up bad mortgages and reduce them to the current value of the homes. Would this be fair to a homeowner that put 20% down who purchased the same home next door to a person who got 100% financing. Assume a 20% decline in home values. So the person who put down 20% has lost their entire equity, but the person who got 100% financing has their mortgage reduced to the same amount. McCain shows a complete lack of understanding about how the responsible people who purchased homes and have suffered declining values feel about proposals to bail out people who should never have purchased a home in the first place. What is wrong with renting if you can't afford a home?

[Ben Parkeen]

McCain is really making me angry with his lack of knowledge of the American government. He seems so clueless...

[vinay]

McCain is still a guy from old generation. Still doing the same politics. Just pointing fingers at Barack Obama doenst help.

[Lorraine Bedus]

For both candidates. With all of the money we are spending on the war, including the expense of rebuild why are we not negotiating with these countries to give us the oil for the work we are doing?

[c.m.]

What is up with McCain's posture? He needs some oil on those limbs....

[steve roddy]

It's 9:30 and I'm already sick of Mccains gibberish.He musta been takin' lessons from Palin.

[KW]

Obama---
he wants to review the budget line by line---
Isn't that his job as a senator?

[Chris]

Young people to join the peace corps? I think he means require young people join a volunteer corps or peace corps for a period of time.

[Derek]

I am a new home owner. I saw the prices rise after Katrina and I knew it was bound to crash. I waited for the prices to come down. My question is why should I help pay for someones house because they paid too much for their house?

[Toni Rivera]

Did McCain just diss the young guy when he said you probably never heard of Fannie Mae, or Freddie Mac before this downturn?

[Jerry Rea]

Why don't either one of the candidates support the FAIR TAX proposal as a means of (1) cutting down government costs i. e. eliminating the IRS and (2) creating tax breaks for industry that will encourage American industries to return tothe U. S. soil with their operations? and (3) Why aren't the candidate more irate and verbose and outraged about pork barrel (earmark) wasteful spending of hundreds of billions oof our taxpayers' dollars?

I am the author of tis comment and I approve of it for publication.

[Brian]

McCain has an economic plan.... but it's secret. What?!?! It's a debate... voters want to hear specifics but McCain gives up a lead-up to his plans, and then sits down?

[tg]

I'm sorry America but we have sold all r liberties down the road with this 2 party system. These two jokesters have the same agenda and thats selling out AMERICA to the U.N. I cant believe that one american can be on board with the United Nations millennium goals but yet the two clowns running for president of the United States do. WOW.

[Deby]

I lived in Arizona back in the da. McCain avoided indictment because he was a national "hero"....not because he was without guilt!

[Cameron Brown]

This year has been such a show put on by Washington.. this is all so fake and meaningless! RON PAUL!

[AKJ]

McCain

Be patriotic -- retire!

A

[Trudy]

How does McCain plan to buy all those mortgages back without spending money? He plans to cut taxes, cut spending but buy all those mortgages?!?!? Wish I could spend without spending!!!!

[GWB]

Ross Perot was dead on in 1992 regarding NAFTA and the loss of American Jobs. None of these Politicians have a clue what to do.

[ryan]

john mccain is not my friend. so does he expect me to listen to him when he addresses his friends?

[S Wright]

The Dems are quick to blame Bush and McCain for the economic woes. Did they forget that their party has run Congress for the last 4 years? What about the responsebility of the those running the failed companies and the consumers? We have a balance of powers in the USA. If the people in our country would start learning how the government works, they would realize that the President does not have all the power they think he has. Oh, yes, I forgot, it is politically incorrect to study and learn about the best country in the world. Modern teaching just teaches about how terrible America is. I should know, I'm a public school teacher. And yes, some of us are very consevative!

[Leslie Weinberg]

Both candidates talk about energy problems, but neither has mentioned the fact that all over the Country, Electric Utilities are spending billions of dollars on the installation of "Smart Meters", which will remotely monitor electric usage, and lead to differential pricing depending on time of day. Most of the cost of these meters is going to be borne by the homeowners, in taxes and other surcharges added to their bills. In addition, once differential pricing goes into effect, the cost of energy during peak hours may make the cost of gas at the pumps look like a bargain.

In this time of economic distress, why are these Utilities being allowed to implement these programs at the expense of the American people who are already in dire straits?

[Jimmy Chen]

both of them are attacking each other but not answering the current crisis in details. I don't care their voting record tonight because the records are there already. Why do they avoid their real thought or any plans to deal the current financial crisis because it affects our daily life.

[De Sai]

Is Tom Brokaw an impartial moderator ? At this stage he looks very partisan.

[Larry in NC]

McCain is babbling!

[Rob]

What about the average American that isn't in debt and doesn't have a house payment losing their retirement to this downturn. What's being done to help them. Dumping your 401K to put your money into bonds comes with an instant tax penalty. It's lose-lose for anyone that's been a good steward for their money.

[Kym]

I'm sorry, but if McCain says "my friends" one more time, I'm going to scream! Not only am I not happy with what he's saying, I'm annoyed by how he is saying it. I thought Palin's talking down to Americans in her overly folksy, flirty way was extremely offensive, but McCain is just as annoying to listen to.

[Ross D.]

To fix health care , take away health care benefits from all the members of the house the senate and congress and tell the you ll get your health care when the system gets fixed to include all Americans