Live blog of the final John McCain-Barack Obama presidential debate

(UPDATE: A complete debate transcript is available here.)

Final thoughts: In political lore, this final candidate faceoff of the longest presidential campaign in U.S. history is destined to be remembered as the "Joe the Plumber" debate.

Joe the Plumber, aka Joe Wurzelbacher, the Ohio plumbing contractor who recently asked a question of Barack Obama about tax policy, which prompted the Democrat to invoke the phrase "spread the wealth," which John McCain clearly decided could be used effectively to depict his rival as embracing a liberalism akin to socialism. By one quick count, McCain referred to "Joe the Plumber" 15 times.

But if Wurzelbacher achieved instant stardom, the real winner tonight was the American public. The third time truly proved the charm as McCain and Obama -- after two false starts -- finally engaged in a rhetorical battle that spelled out clear differences between them on a number of fronts.

These include the federal budget, healthcare, education and abortion (the latter two issues had been virtually ignored in the previous debates).

McCain delivered his best performance, at least during the debate's first 30 minutes. As befits his self-proclaimed "underdog" status in the race (confirmed by the polls), he immediately and aggressively challenged Obama on economic matters -- most obviously taxes.

And he delivered an effective retort when Obama played the "you're-a-Bush-third-term" card (see below). McCain partisans may rightly wonder what took McCain so long to come up with such an effective sound bite to this long-running Obama refrain, but better late than never.

Obama seemed off his stride -- and perhaps too passive -- as McCain got off to his good start. But once the William Ayers matter came up, was dealt with and set aside (again, see below), Obama rallied. And as the debate proceeded, he got stronger while McCain at times lost his focus.

McCain's campaign, though, can be expected to keep its focus on what he seemed to telegraph will be its main line of attack over the next few days -- and perhaps through election day. And that is hammering Obama over the "spread the wealth" phrase.

7:25 p.m. Unlike the previous debates, which focused largely on the economy and foreign policy, tonight Schieffer is asking questions about a wide range of issues, from abortion to education.

Although the candidates agree that America should have more charter schools, their education policies differ in some important ways.

McCain calls for an overhaul, including the implementation of a voucher system that would allow families to pull their tax dollars from public schools and use the money for tuition at charter or private schools. Obama does not favor vouchers.

Obama would pump billions into the school system and overhaul the No Child Left Behind program. He also talks about the need to improve college accessibility and affordability.

McCain, in responding, ignores the college issue and concentrates instead on the....

...disagreement that he and Obama have over federal funding of vouchers.

7:22 p.m. As the discussion turns to appointing Supreme Court justices, the two men ultimately spell out their clear difference on the controversial Roe vs. Wade decision that established a federal right to abortion.

After saying he would not impose a “litmus test” on those he would nominate to the court, McCain -- with prodding from Schieffer –- acknowledges that it would be unlikely he would name someone who disagreed with his opposition to Roe vs. Wade and his belief that the abortion issue should be determined by each state.

Obama also insists he would not impose litmus tests on court nominees, but acknowledges that it would be unlikely he would name someone who does not support Roe vs. Wade. He adds that he believes “a right to privacy” is inherent in the Constitution (the key to the ruling legalizing abortion nationwide) and that this is a matter “that shouldn’t be subject to state referendum.”

Again, the voter benefits: The difference between the two men gets clearly enunciated.

7:10 p.m. McCain misspeaks during the healthcare debate, referring to Obama as “Senator Government.”

But it’s a slip of the tongue that, in its own way, encapsulates the basic distinctions between McCain and Obama that the Republican came into this debate clearly hoping to drive home.

7:07 p.m. After a discussion of their respective healthcare plans had generated little heat, McCain seeks to draw a distinction with Obama by again invoking Joe the Plumber.

McCain insists that under Obama’s policy, small-business owners like Joe could face a fine if he failed to provide what an Obama administration deemed adequate healthcare coverage. He asks Obama to spell out what that fine might be.

Responds Obama, clearly relishing the moment: “Zero” (and to emphasize the point, he forms a zero with his fingers). He says that his plan would provide exemptions from some requirements for small businesses and that they would not face fines.

7:00 p.m. The candidates seem more relaxed than at either of the previous debates. This one really does have the feel of a natural conversation, which is no small feat.

Both candidates have been candid in their reactions too. When Obama doesn't agree with something McCain says, he flashes a wide smile. When McCain hears something he doesn't agree with, he raises his eyebrows and grins.

6:54 p.m. As the discussion turns to their respective running mates, Obama takes a pass on criticizing Palin.

Asked directly by Schieffer whether he viewed her as qualified to assume the presidency, Obama says that’s for voters to determine. He gives her credit for being “a capable politician” who has fired up the Republican base. Noting that McCain had mentioned the focus she has put on special-needs children during the campaign, he praises her for that. But then he notes that helping parents cope with special-needs children could require spending by the federal government that McCain would freeze.

It’s a good point, but then McCain has an effective response. He asks why the Obama solution, on this and other fronts, would be to “spend more.” Instead, he says, greater efficiency should be demanded of federal agencies.

Bottom line: A clear difference is delineated between the candidates that voters can chew on.

McCain is less kind when he's asked about Joe Biden. He says Biden has made bad decisions when it comes to foreign policy, including opposing the Gulf War. And then he calls Biden's ideas about Iraq "cockamamie."

6:47 p.m. The much-anticipated discussion of Ayers yields little new on Obama’s links to him.

Having dutifully bought it up –- as well as Obama’s association with the suddenly controversial ACORN group (accused by Republicans of having engaged in massive voter registration fraud) -– McCain changes the subject without being prompted. What does he come back to? The economy, stupid.

“My campaign is about getting this economy on track. . . . And I’m not going to raise taxes” like, he charges, an Obama administration would.

6:39 p.m. Finally, about 30 minutes into the debate, as the two men neared what seemed like the end of a discussion of negative campaigning, McCain mentions Ayers’ name.

Obama responds, “Let’s get the record straight.” After identifying him as an education professor who lives in Chicago, Obama notes, as he has so often before, that he was 8 years old when Ayers engaged in “despicable acts” (i.e., helping plan violent protests and some domestic bombings in the early 1970s).

McCain responds by saying that Americans need to know more about the extent of their relationship (McCain has been saying that a lot on the stump this week, he often asks audiences, “Who is Barack Obama?”)

6:36 p.m. Schieffer, after listing the harsh charges and countercharges each campaign has lobbed against the other -– including Sarah Palin’s comment that Obama “pals around” with a terrorist (William Ayers) –- asks each candidate if he would repeat the attacks to each other, face to face.

McCain answers by decrying Obama’s refusal to conduct a series of joint town hall meetings during the summer. He also mentions the incendiary charge made by  Democratic Rep. John Lewis of Georgia, who said the tone of the Republican campaign, especially at some of Palin’s rallies, reminded him of the poisonous atmosphere that Gov. George Wallace of Alabama helped create during the fight for civil rights in the South in the early 1960s. He calls on Obama to repudiate that statement.

Obama at first avoids that request. Pressed on the matter by McCain, he first mentions the shouts of “terrorist” that his name has evoked at some Palin rallies, and then says he thinks some of what Lewis said was inappropriate.

6:32 p.m. We just got word of a clever gimmick by former Rep. Bob Barr, the Libertarian Party’s presidential candidate.

Barr was barred from tonight’s debate by the Commission on Presidential Debates, so he’s having his own debate against McCain and Obama on his website, showing the moderator’s questions, the answers from the Republican and the Democrat, and then giving his own answers as if he was at Hofstra too.

You can see it here.

6:29 p.m.

McCain again shows that he came into this debate more focused and more disciplined than in the past ones.

After Obama seeks to tie McCain to the outgoing –- and unpopular -– GOP administration, McCain snaps, “I am not President Bush. If you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have run four years ago.”

Obama is undeterred. He again argues that on economic policy, McCain marches to the same tune as Bush.

6:25 p.m. Schieffer takes a crack at what previous debate moderators Jim Lehrer and Tom Brokaw tried -– for the most part unsuccessfully –- at the last two debates: Get the candidates to specify federal programs that would have to be curtailed because of the huge financial commitment made to stem the economic crisis.

Obama, as at the last two encounters, declines to be pinned down. Instead, he stresses that as president, he would go through the budget “line by line” looking for savings.

McCain initially ignores the question to tout his mortgage program –- another sign that he went into the debate firmly fixed on driving home particular parts of his agenda.

He then repeats his call for a spending freeze on most parts of the federal budget. Noting that Obama previously has zinged that plan as a “hatchet” approach, he agrees, saying, “That’s a hatchet and then I would get out a scalpel.”

6:17 p.m. Move over "Joe Six-Pack" -- there's a new Joe in town.

McCain, in his first rejoinder to Obama, brings up “Joe the Plumber,” a fellow who has become a central figure in Republican talking points this week.

During a recent appearance in Ohio, Obama was working the crowd and the plumber (a "big, bald man with a goatee," according to the pool reporter) asked him about his fiscal proposals, which he complained would increase the taxes his business pays. The exchange was caught on tape, including Obama saying he wanted to “spread the wealth around.” You can watch it here.

As they engage in a discussion, McCain refers to that line and flatly accuses Obama of wanting to start “class warfare” in America.

Clearly, McCain wants to throw his rival off stride and make some key points with the debate audience. He has succeeded in focusing the forum on the tax issue before Schieffer insists that they must move on to another subject.

6:12 p.m. Schieffer begins with what we expected him to: the economy. He talks about the tanking stock market and asks each candidate to explain why his plan for fixing the chaotic economy is better.

McCain focuses on what he acknowledges is a short-term proposal: stabilizing the home mortgage market. He outlines the plan he unveiled at last week’s debate, which calls for the Treasury Department to essentially buy up a vast batch of mortgages and help the homeowners meet their obligations.

Obama starts out with the big picture, saying Americans understand the nation is facing its worst economic situation since the Great Depression. He details some of his proposals, including a new one he offered this week that would temporarily allow older Americans to tap their retirement accounts without tax penalties.

6:07 p.m. And they’re off!

The candidates have taken the stage, and Schieffer kicks things off with a warning: “By now we’ve heard all the talking points,” he says, before asking them to abandon them. Let's hope they listen.

6:02 p.m. Bob Schieffer takes the stage to prep the audience on being quiet, turning off the cellphones, etc. But first, he expressed one regret: that his friend, the late NBC journalist Tim Russert, was not among those at Hofstra tonight. “Tim loved this campaign,” Schieffer said.

5:56 p.m. Spotted: Hillary Rodham Clinton and Mitt Romney, two politicians who would rather be onstage than in the crowd.

5:38 p.m. Good evening, and welcome to our live blog of the final debate between presidential candidates John McCain and Barack Obama. In less than 30 minutes, the pair will take the stage at Hofstra University in Hempstead, N.Y.

As they do, we'll be wondering whether a campaign that so often has turned conventional wisdom on its head will produce yet another surprise.

Received political wisdom has it that the first debate is the one that counts the most -- the one most likely to produce a dramatic shift in political trends. But perhaps tonight's third McCain-Obama encounter will accomplish that, in part because of the format.

The two men won't be standing behind lecterns and separated by several feet on the stage. That was the set-up for the first debate Sept. 26, and it's an arrangement that tends to discourage give-and-take. Fireworks also failed to fly in the second debate, on Oct. 7, as the attempt at creating a lively town hall environment failed miserably.

Tonight, Obama and McCain will to be seated together at a table, with CBS News anchor Bob Schieffer serving as moderator. Their proximity -- which will cry out for actual interaction -- has the potential to produce some memorable moments. So does the subject: domestic policy (which will mean, mainly, the struggling economy).

And, of course, Schieffer almost assuredly is going to broach the name that the McCain campaign has been dropping periodically over the last 10 days but which did not come up at last week's debate: William Ayers, the Vietnam-era bomber-turned-education-reformer who played a role in the start of Obama's political career.

You can watch live coverage alongside us by visiting the L.A. Times home page and clicking on the "live video" link (you can also tune in to CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS, CNN, MSNBC, the Fox News Channel, C-SPAN or BBC America).

Get ready -- the debate begins soon!

-- Don Frederick and Kate Linthicum

Photo credits, from top: Ron Edmonds / Associated Press
Justin Lane /European Pressphoto Agency

Comments

[lee]

How can you be undecided. Know your history. For a refresher see a brief history about the great depression.

[noway]

BERG V. OBAMA

blah blah blah nobmaa

[Joe]

I don't get how Ayers gets so much buzz. They both helped the same education charity, so what? If you say that it means Obama should vet all his friends, why not apply that to McCain?

The guy McCain hired as his transition chief (the person who figures out all the Presidential staff to hire, who to put in the cabinet, etc.) was a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein!

So you can either claim that McCain is "palin' around with terrorists" or you can admit that this whole thing is ridiculous. Personally, I think that it's all 100% ridiculous and I'd rather hear about how they're going to fix the economy. So far, only Obama seems to have a plan, though McCain does come up with random, crazy ideas on what to do. Unfortunately, the only thought behind them seems to be that they need to sound good and get him elected, not that they'll actually help the economy.

[Rudy]

Go Obama!

[D MIner]

Good lord, McCain is a jackass!

[Olen Batchelor]

Obama tries to keep the focus on issues and off character. In a position of such power, temptation is so strong that personal character should be a major consideration.

[William]

Look back to Jefferson, John Adams, Lincoln and
all the other real Americans and you will find no-one
who has a thouth like Obama. He cares nothing about
America , its history , rights or freedoms. He is not a
true American and should not even be in the running.
I am ashamed of those who vote for him and fear for the USA. He will be the handle that flushes America.

[gdread]

McCain is lying scum. I loathe to use such a characterization, but it is the only thing that works without falling into the pit of profanity.

[Bob Lowry]

It is very frustrating to continue to hear the socialist dribble of Mr. Obama. As a business man, who has struggled to build my career and life for my family I am offended that he would now like to take my money and give it to people who do not share that motivation! If we take other's money and give it to people, they do not strive to make things better, but instead just sit and wait for more $
His egotistic attitude is irritating. His political history and directives toward socialism is scary. His personal alliances and judgment are evidently poor yet all this seems to be ignored and he is treated like a celebrity. We DO NOT need a celebrity with liberal socialistic views to lead our country. We need a strong and proven American!

[joe sixpack]

McCain appears frazzled.

[Barry]

Seems American's are losing jobs and homes at an alarming rate. I wonder when we will wake up and smell the coffee and work toward becoming an energy independent country. What short attention spans we have. When gas is scarce we conserve and look to produce, buy and drive energy efficient cars. When the oil is flowing cheap we forget, we have been there before. I am reading a newly released book by Jeff Wilson called the Manhattan Project of 2009. It should be a required read for all members of our government.
www.themanhattanprojectof2009.com

[mary]

William, you are an IDIOT!!!!!
I will be voting for OBAMA and am proud of it......

[Harold]

I had to turn off the debate and go to the ball game as I could not tolerate the insulting remarks by McCain.
He is a Bush clone-he has selected a religious zealot as his vice president and still talks down to the American people.
He is no more interested in Joe six pack-the all American plumber who will have to pay more taxes ( if he earns over $ 250,000-taxable income).
The Republican attitude is insulting and offensive as it tries to connect with the "people" while extending more and more deductions for industrial giants like Exxon- Haliburton and others.

[Karen]

Why does Senator McCain keep breathing so deeply, is that an anger management technique?

[Terry]

We need to pay attention to which candidates focus on the very important issue of energy independence.Seems American's are losing jobs and homes at an alarming rate. I wonder when we will wake up and smell the coffee and work toward becoming an energy independent country. What short attention spans we have. When gas is scarce we conserve and look to produce, buy and drive energy efficient cars. When the oil is flowing cheap we forget, we have been there before. I am reading a newly released book by Jeff Wilson called the Manhattan Project of 2009. It should be a required read for all members of our government.
www.themanhattanprojectof2009.com

[Mini]

Obama, won! McBush tried to do a good job on the economy but, as always he tried so hard to turn everything into a personal attack on Obama instead of staying on the issues and playing fair! We are tired of welfare for the corporations and the rich!, We want someone to look out for the middle class and the working poor not someone so associated with the privileged and rich corporations,.

[jon]

its really really really a big gamble for the americans to vote for barack...i just cant see how well he can handle this global economic crisis...because its not all about how good you talk but how well you perform....

[lisa b]

McCain has the personality of a hexed toad. Will he ever realize that his attitude, or his lack of emotional intelligence directly attributes to his own downfall? Probably not. It's a Republican trait.

[BJ]

Obama is definitely a sliver tongued fox... but be careful of this man. He definitely has an agenda, and that agenda is not for the good of America!

He lied about ACORN. He tried to downplay his past affiliations by bringing up his present, notably Warren Buffet. However, this does not excuse his past 20 years. Ask yourself, what and who do you think had more influence on your present character? The thoughts and words that surrounded you in your 20's-30's? Or the ones you seek out now because it will enhance your ambition?

I'm glad McCain finally said this to his face! Obama's campaign is basically funded by the VERY PEOPLE who claim that "they" are the taxpayers, whose "backs" this economic bailout rests on! The people who fund Obama's campaign ARE THE 40% WHO DO NOT PAY TAXES! Why? Because he will repay them a thousand fold by the social programs he will implement ON THE BACKS of the taxpayers that pay 90% of the taxes that will fund these programs. Not only that! Obama wants to TAX THESE SAME PEOPLE MORE!

Give me a break... I refuse to support the sloths of society.

[Evelyn]

I'm surprised to read that the candidates seemed "relaxed." Obama, yes. But McCain was audibly seething, leaning back, breathing through his nose and acting like he might explode at any moment. He seemed furious through much of the debate.

[Ginger K.]

We DO NOT need a celebrity with liberal socialistic views to lead our country. We need a strong and proven American!

Posted by: Bob Lowry |

And have eight more disastrous years like last eight? Uh, I don't think so. Your team is out of chances, bud.

[jon]

i just hope the american people will never ever forget the great american dream...america as a symbol and model of liberty...the real and true blue american ideals...and one of them is mccain....

[MARTIN]

Even with the comments above, I don't recall such a lively and truly, in terms of the U.S.'s future, significant debate about a presidential election. I believe both candidates are in earnest (save the national joke named Palin). However, between the two, the lines are clearly drawn. Obama will win in a landslide. We all know it. It's in the polls, in media comments and in every other media report about he election. Can we just get behind the winner and help dig us out of our county's problems?

[Freedom Eagle]

RE: Bob Lowry

Wow, who knew John McCain had time to comment here?

You've hit every Republican talking point nearly word for word.

It sure looked to me like Senator McCain veered from angry to smug, and while he tried to claim righteous indignation over a variety of subjects, mostly he stuck to fully discredited lies, like "voting to let babies die", which really deserved some fire from Senator Obama.

Does Mr. McCain have no decency left that he resorts to the ugliest of smears? Baby killer? What happened to his honor and dignity? What happened to the respectable person he used to be?

[Ken]

Nothing new here with the exception of how Barack explains his ties to Ayers and ACORN. If you are still undecided, what is your problem? The choice is pretty simple, find out where you fit in, in society, and make your choice. Quit waiting for the Genie in the bottle to come and grant all your wishes! It doesn't work that way. It's either more of the same or something new!

[Carracticus]

Only once did I hear in the presidential debates the word 'Immigration!' One of the most damaging issue that is tearing our economy apart, and it was spoken only one time. It scares me to think that although the greater part of the American people are against a path to citizenship, better known as AMNESTY. It amazed me that although jobs of low payed citizens are given to illegal aliens. Yet high paying jobs have been spirited overseas to cheap labor countries. The next president failed to bring this seething bubbling problem to the general public. Both candidates have something to hide and after November we will see who panders to the millions of foreign nationals surviving here. Nearly everything Obama and McCain talked about, such as health care has a great deal to do, with giving free health care to illegal aliens, including billions of dollars which is forced by mandate for education. I guess if you added the money extracted from taxpayers to underwrite the pariah employers of illegal aliens, it would be well over $1.trillion dollars.

Some five million fraudulent home mortgages are in the hands of illegal aliens, according to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development.

The middle class already overburdened with war appropriation funds, is still force to pay for the education, free health-care and Federal, state welfare handouts for illegal criminals and millions of illegal alien families. SIGN UP FOR THE SAVE ACT(H.R.4088) enforcement 'ONLY' law at www.numbersusa.com.

SIGN JUDICIAL WATCH, A LEGAL ORGANIZATIONS PETITION, TO RESCIND ALL 'SANCTUARY CITIES & STATES. www.sanctuarybusters.org / source. www.numbersusa.com to Petition the SAVE ACT. For immigration facts not propaganda or lies,

PASS THIS ON COPY, PASTE & DISTRIBUTE FREELY

[kj]

I want a president who is calm. We already had 8 years of a Bush. Obama will bring respect and leadership role America needs.

[Drasail2]

Re: the celebrated Joe the Plumber

Ho ho ho! McCain really missed on this one. Has he ever
had to pay a Plumber? I'm positively sobbin' about the poor poor plumber who makes 250K + a year. Who else should we have a pity party for? Todd the Lawyer, Chet the auto mechanic or Biff the Wall Street trader?

[kit]

Geez what were you smoking?

Obama mentiioned AYERS in a HUGE gaffe!

No child left behind- apparently YOU were author of this article.

[MontyMoose]

Its amazing on who or what we do in our past is MORE relevant than what we do today.
Changing ones mind is not FLIP FLOPPING ! Its taking new evidence and inputing it and coming out with a different result or idea and using the new evidence or knowledge to make a decision!
We have all gone to meeting or a group or a college or an association that later on we found to have members of groups that we would be ashamed to be part of. Frat brothers whose fathers were in the KluKlux clan, members of the communist party, teachers who have belonged to groups that are abhorent

[Bob]

NoBama! The US does not want or need to become a socialist society!