In Ohio, battle of the plumbers (actual and otherwise) breaks out

As if further evidence was needed of the phenomenon that is "Joe the Plumber" (however brief it may be), there comes this e-mail advisory:

Real Toledo Area Plumbers to Hold Press Conference to Express Their Grave Concerns with Senator McCain’s Economic Policies

The message goes on to advise that in Northwood, Ohio, today "members of Local 50 Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics" will not only take questions but "share their concerns with several of Sen. McCain's proposals, including his plan to tax employer-based healthcare insurance, his tax proposal which favors the wealthy over working Ohioans and other issues that will impact working families."

The gathering takes place shortly before a scheduled McCain appearance in Westerville, Ohio.

Joe the Plumber -- aka Samuel "Joe" Wurzelbacher -- lives in Holland, Ohio, and was invited to McCain's rally. No word on whether the fellow the the Republican presidential candidate thrust into the spotlight as an iconic working stiff (but who, as it turns out, is not an officially licensed plumber) will make it.

(UPDATE:  The Huffington Post reports that in Colorado, Democrats have unleashed electronic messages that feature a plumber identified as Joe Martinez. In the robo calls, Martinez touts Barack Obama's tax plan.)

-- Don Frederick

Comments

[celloinil]

This shows a consistence of McCain's vetting process - skimpy. Same with supreme court justices? Existence of weapons of mass destruction? Vice presidential nominee? His effectiveness as president?

[Tommy]

Will these last 2.5 weeks ever get behind us? I'm thinking most of us are as tired as the day is long about all of this....sheesh

T

[Joe Zappull]

Joe the Plumber asks a legitimate question to Obama, and Obama's attacks him with everything he has. How can anyone with half a brain not think that Obama et al are trying to steal this election. Obama is truly and evil person, who will do and say anything (his campaign tells him to say) to win this election.

[amccoy]

Great! I hope the news gives them as much coverage as they have given Joe.

McCain using Joe as an example during the debate might have been a good debate move, but I am amazed he is STILL using him as an example on the campaign trail. Sure, he isn't really a plumber, doesn't have any real plans to buy the business he said he planned to buy, would pay less taxes under Obama's plan (whether he bought the business or not), and was clearly less interested in getting an honest answer from Obama than in causing a problem, but when have little things like facts stopped the McCain/Palin team.

[rickywahoo]

This usually happens. Think you have something good and then it backfires. This is typical of a desperate campaign to dive into and cling without thoughts of long term. This is going to be bad.

[Mark]

I don't think this ol' boy (Joe, Sam, or whatever his name is) is going to be doing much plumbing in Toledo any more. He's not licensed and the city Building Inspector's office has sent his boss a letter to cease and desist from doing unlicensed work.
Joe has no license, he dropped out of a plumbing apprenticeship without completing it, and his plan to "buy his boss's business" was more "aspirational than operational".
In other words, he's full of sh*t. Just like the rest of the G.O.P.

[Jeff Balla]

He's not an actual plumber (doesn't have a license).

And he owes back taxes (about $1,200) to the state of Ohio.

And Barack Obama would raise his taxes by $700. 700.

So if Obama were elected, Joe-The-not-actually-a-Plumber would get to be even more of a deadbeat.

Good job trumpeting him at the debate, McCain. Good to see who you're fighting for.

[letsjustvote]

The real plumbers and Sam Joseph will recieve a tax cut under Barack Obama's Tax Plan.

Eight is enough!

[Geoffrey B Slater]

First; Has it always been so completely stupid, this election process of ours? I guess when I was young I just didn't pay attention but it seems that our society has come to the point that we would rather focus on someones plumbing capabilities rather than perform a detailed evaluation of the potential impact of any candidates proposals. I have yet to see one major publisher do that; not one!

Second; The core of Obama's tax change is to increase taxes on those making > $250 M, which he will then redistribute in the form of a $500 check to those now not paying taxes.OK, perhaps this Robinhood approach is admirable but the question needs to be asked, what impact will one simple $500 check have on any family? My guess is basically ZERO. Of course a free $500 is always welcome but a one time check isn't going to factually help Middle America, period, end of story.

Third; Job creation is the engine that has always fueled the development of the Middle Class. History has shown us that the private sector is a superior engine for the creation of anything than is a huge cumbersome Federal agency (FEMA is a good example). How in the name of Rube Goldberg will Obama spend all that money he wants the new Feds to spend? The government hasn't got any money? Perhaps tax breaks to investors and companies who are willing to start up businesses focused Green technology is a better approach.

Fourth; Can anyone name a country with a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic and multi-racial fabric that has succeeded? Oops!

I haven't got the answers, although given a good salary and time, I am sure that I could. What is more important is that I can read history. We humans have gone through this cycle many times already. The problem is that we haven't learned anything yet. Its time to shut down the TV promotions, debates, grandstanding and have someone truthfully explain in detail how each candidates proposals will impact the short and long term health of our country. With our current cultural morass perhaps we could get Brittany Spears to put that one down in a song!

What happened to America? When will we wake up?

[DEB-Z]

Best of luck to Joe the Plummer!
I am a Senator Obama backer
Being a small business owner, I know that few small business owners are rich. Most of us work 6-7 days a week and make little for the time and money invested in paperwork, benefits, and taxes.
Only the super rich will benefit under the McCain plan!
People who do not work and make MILLIONs just like McCain's wife have accountants and lawyers on business payroll to find all their special interest deductions!!!
John and Cindy do not want to be down to just 5 or 6 homes....or 10 cars...do not tax the rich...just the working class!!!
They just use people like Joe the Plumber in attempt to cloud the issues and think he is for the working class
when he can't relate at all to their lifestyle and struggles.

[Gary]

I think we need to raise the age requirements for voters and see if we can reach some level of maturity with the added requirement for at least one working brain cell. I will be glad to see the end of this goat rope.

[Amphitrite]

WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO MCCAIN???

Some of us went into this election thinking the GOP had nominated the McCain who once was--the guy they passed over in 2000, passed over precisely because he was too moderate. We believed the country had moved decisively away from Bush. We thought, should Obama lose a close election to THAT McCain, there were worse things that could have happenend. That perspective is no longer possible. McCain has disqualified himself for the office in the past month. He has breathed life into the worst remaining elements of the Bush Administration and is presiding over one of the most destructive presidential campaigns in US history. It does not appear that we have seen the worst of it and the rabble that shows up to his campaign events may well get out of control. John McCain is personally responsible for all of it. He has erased any respect his venerated career might have earned him. I no longer "honor his service." Any venom that will be directed his way starting on November 6 will be well earned, and I, for one, will not mind at all participating in the party held on his political grave.

[NinaK]

Good for the certified and licensed plumbers to stand up to McCain and his "Joe the Plumber, oopps, excuse me, his "Joe the not certified, not licensed plumber"!! This guy is about as sharp as Sarah Palin, the supporter of the Alaskan Independent Party!! The plumber unions throughout the United States should unite against McCain and Joe the Plumber. Joe the Plumber cannot pay his taxes and his fines, so how in the world could he buy his boss' business? Joe the plumber is on par with Sarah Palin in intelligence and reasoning. And that's not saying much about either of them. Thank you Toledo Area Plumbers and Joe Martinez in Colorado!!

[Paul]

Unlicenced bogus plumbers are a menace to public health.

[Hurray!]

Hurray! Give the -real- plumbers a voice!

[Jim Treacher]

McCain didn't vet the plumber who listened to Obama accidentally tell the truth about his socialistic beliefs -- beliefs that he's so far managed to keep under wraps, with the eager assistance of the press -- because there was no nearby teleprompter.

...yeah.

Some of the commenters here should be vetted for the possession of brain matter.

[menokki]

I am a foreigner. Can someone tell me, under which administration is it more likely that oil prices will be more reasonable?

[GW]

McCain was a guy I thought I liked before this campaign. He was against the Bush administration's use of torture (waterboarding and other methods), he was for campaign finance reform, he wrote a piece of climate change legislation, and he seemed to buck his party at every turn to do what seemed right.

Now, he appears to have forgotten everything. He dropped the ball on torture, sucking up to the Bush administration, he is taking money from lobbyists left and right (Obama isn't taking a dime from lobbyists), he says he "wouldn't sign" the very laws he drafted regarding climate change, and he is running a smear campaign of ad hominem, i.e., attacking the person instead of his ideas against Obama. It's wrong, Mr. McCain.

I was excited about a McCain ticket at one time. His choice of Srarh Palin has to be seriously questioned. The Governor of Alaska has very little substance as far as I can tell. What has she actually said or done? There is very little to back up the allegedly good things she's done: she voted FOR the "Bridge to Nowhere" only to vote against it when it was already dead in the water. She tried to have a Wasilla, Alaska librarian removed for refusing to take books off the shelves of the Wasilla library, and would have succeeded in removing her if not for the massive support of the townspeople.

McCain chose her for all the wrong reasons. If we choose McCain, we'll be doing the same. I am going to vote for Obama. He appears to me to be a sincere, honest, intelligent and hard-working American.

[Eddie Zalez]

All McCain needs now is for Joe the Plumber to bend over to show the crack down his butt. Maybe it is smaller than the one about the credibility affecting his story: no his real name, no license, no formal training, no union membership, lied about his income, behind paying his taxes, etc., etc. Poor McCain, he cannot even find a real plumber to support him.

[Andrew]

Joe the plumber is not a plumber? Shocking! How far do the republicans go to deceive electorates? That is why its hurting Mccain so much.
It was nice of Obama to talk to that guy and explain his tax policy, even when it was stage managed by the republican camp. Obama 08.

[Rachel Thomas]

This is too funny! The campaign is getting more and more unreal every day. No offense to the plumbing industry, but who would have thought that a single question to Obama at a photo op would put the plumber's presidential endorsement front-and-center at a national level? Even in American politics I think this is a first!

[misty]

Joe the plumber is not a "plumber" and he is not even a "joe". But still the air-heads leaders of the GOP and FOX news are gropping to salvage this election on the shoulder of "Joe the plumber". Do they think that the rest of the Americans are all a bunch of idiots? Well, may be they were when they elected Bush for two times, but not any more.

[Reformed Ditto Head]

I've voted Bush, Dole, Bush, Bush. Of the three that got elected, none of them produced any net gain in jobs. I wish they had. I wished trickle-down theory worked. To the person asking "what is $500 worth to the average family" I urge you to read more. First, Obama would give the average middle class families more than double that amount. Second, Bush's "economic stimulus" package featured a $600 rebate check as its centerpiece. Economists are saying those checks have helped stave off a deeper recession. Third, the real question is what helps the economy more: a $250,000 tax break for Paris Hilton or a $1000 break to Joe the Plumber and the millions like him? History shows Paris and her friends spend the money on foreign goods and resort vacations, not on domestic job creation. Joe the Plumber, on the other hand, would spend it on goods produced in America. With more people buying American goods, companies would have the ability to grow.

Again, I've supported Republicans for the past 20 years. But I was wrong. We were all wrong. I urge others to READ about policies and their effects instead of just repeating, like a parrot, words like socialism to drive up fear. 2% of the country would benefit under McCain, while 98% would benefit under Obama.

And when all is said and done, look at it this way: the republicans have had 8 years to get something done. The DOW is now lower than it was when W took office. "Spread the wealth around" is what republicans do. They take it from the middle class and give it to the "rich" who supposedly will then create jobs. The rich don't do that...look at AIG, they just take the money to a foreign country and get massages.

Please don't vote republican. It hurts 98% of us.

[Kathy]

Joe Zappull,

Why not give it a rest.

I have a whole brain and know that possibly if Joe the non-plumber had refused interviews, this might have died down. But what does he do? He is on talk shows and enjoying the attention. All well and good but how is Obama "attacking" him if he does that? And all the information obtained about him is true and public record.

If you really believe what you wrote, then you need to get a reality check. If you don't then you are just another person trying to sully the first intelligent candidate for president to come along in a very long time. And my whole brain says that won't work. Sorry.

[doug]

Joe The Plummer for President ! Go Joe and how about
Sara Connor for VP ?

[Elef]

If Joe the plumper was a real plumber and if he really wanted to buy the company he was working for he would obviously vote for Obama because under Obama's tax plan he would be able to put aside more money every year and reach his goal to buy a company faster.

Of course Sam is no plumber and has no plans to buy a plumbing company. I do not think economics is what motivates him to support McCain but ideology. Probably Sam likes the Republican platform commitment to suppress women' rights, McCain's thoughtless militarism, and Palin's idea that he is superior and a more patriotic American by simply living in a small town.

[Ted Langs SR]

I am pretty use to GOP tactics and Joe happens in my opinion to be one. First he is a Registered Republican who asked the question and how did McCain group get the information down so pat for the debate? A set up like the previous elections in 2000 and 2004 to con the public that are not that atunned to facts. Once said on National TV it is taken as truth in a lot of people's minds and eyes. Taking from the wealthy and giving to the poor is the tool of of the GOP. Most say we worked hard to get here and it is my money you have no right to it. However the poor say we don't have much but the government still takes it from us.to run the government.
Now if the government was run fairly the tax would be just five percent of total income and no exceptions and no exemptions on that amount. Simple and productive.

[grey_sells]

I am an ex-pat American living in Canada. Can anyone tell me why the USA cannot, apparently, run an election without continiuos claims of registration fraud, voter fraud and purging of votes, etc.? Then come the law suits, litigation and charges or fines, most of them for misdemeanors.

Holding yourselves out to the world as "the" example of democracy that all should emulate? Fairness, including everyone possible, consistency, ease of use, all might be the criteria of an effective election system.

How come this cannot be fixed? Since the flawed election in 2004, the USA has had 4 years to fix this problem. Is it not important enough? If it is not and the people of America prefer the system this way, stop bragging about your democracy and lecturing others how to conduct their elections.

[Wayne]

Since Wurzelbacher is not licensed and the city Building Inspector's office is sending his boss a letter to cease and desist from doing unlicensed work; how is the tax cheat going to step up to the plate like a man and take responsibility for his liability? Is McCain going to resort to a Republican bailout for Wurzebacher to misrepresent the facts for the GOP? SAY IT AIN'T SO JOE!!! Do the right thing, get a job ASAP doing real work, not daydreaming any lying.

[J Earley]

Mr. Geoffrey Slater posted a question: Fourth; Can anyone name a country with a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic and multi-racial fabric that has succeeded? Oops!
Oops yourself, sir. I can name at least three:
Rome. Austro-Hungarian Empire. The United States of America.
All of these political entities bound together many different ethnicities, and flourished for a time. One is still flourishing. Rome was successful much longer than we have been, the Austro-Hungarian for a shorter time. You could make the case that none of the above was totally successful in integrating all groups, but Rome was at least as good at it as we have been.
In any event, none of this has much to do with the matter at hand.
On 'Joe the Plumber'
I think that something has been missed by the media, and perhaps the public. Sam (Joe) is representative of an important part of the Republican base: People who hate to pay taxes, and want to make other people (the next generation) pay. This man is a deadbeat. He ran out on fines owed to Mesa AZ, where he once lived, and he owes property taxes to the point that a lien was placed on his home. In other words, he much like other republicans who want the benefits of our society, but do not want to pay for them.
Obama mentioned this in the last debate, in a way. He said that he did not mind paying a bit more in taxes. We are all going to have to think about how we will pay for the huge deficit run up by Reagan-Bush- Bush (Clinton was paying it down).
Something like $0.50 out of every tax dollar will be going to pay for the interest on the RBB debt alone, and most of that money will be going to foreign banks. Thanks for nothing, Bush. good riddance- you did for the USA what you did for your oil companies. Ran us into the ground. Will your daddy's buddies bail us out too?
I am not a strong Obama supporter, but I am voting for him over the old angry man without a clue. I lost respect for Powell when he lied about the Iraq WMDs, but that does not diminish his role in American history, nor my respect for his ability. If he supports Obama, then any misgivings that I have had about the Senator are now gone. I will vote for Obama today (I live in Oregon, and we got our ballots yesterday)

[Jill Again]

Joe seems to have a hard time understanding why his taxes would be lower under Obama. Perhaps he is locked into the McCain talking points, instead of looking at his W-2 and determining if he makes less than $250k, and understanding his taxes would go down under Obama. Joe may need to review which presidential candidate will offer tax credits for further education. He seems to need math skills.

[KJ Khoo]

Re Geoffrey B Slater's --
Fourth; Can anyone name a country with a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic and multi-racial fabric that has succeeded? Oops!

Isn't the United States a multicultural, multi-ethnic, multiracial fabric? Does Slater mean to say the United States is a failure? Oops! indeed.