Fresh off his Saturday Saddleback triumph, John McCain attacks on Iraq

To the surprise of many, John McCain seemed in his element Saturday at the candidate forum Rick Warren conducted at Orange County's Saddleback Church.

As Peter Hamby notes today at CNN.com, McCain's supposed reluctance to discuss his faith was not evident; indeed, he told the evangelical audience that he had been "saved and forgiven" by Christ. Adds the MSNBC political shop: "We seriously underestimated how Saturday’s religious forum was made to order for McCain, despite the perceptions that McCain rarely talks openly about his faith. On all the questions regarding hot-button social issues, the Arizona senator didn’t have to depart from GOP orthodoxy one bit, except on stem cells."

To the surprise of no one, McCain was definitely in his element this morning as he spoke to the annual convention of the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

He returned, with relish, to the theme he had stressed during Barack Obama's overseas trip last month: that he was right in strongly advocating last year's surge in U.S. troop deployment in Iraq, while his rival was wrong in strongly opposing it and is having a hard time admitting that.

McCain didn't quite reprise the charge he made while Obama was stopping in Iraq -- that his foe would rather win the White House than win a war. But he walked right up to that line, saying: "Behind all of these claims and positions by Sen. Obama (on Iraq) lies the ambition to be president."

Our colleague Mark Silva at the Swamp has more on McCain's speech; Michael Muskal and Maeve Reston have a story at LATtimes.com.

Obama appears before the VFW on Tuesday.

-- Don Frederick

Comments

[Janice Silverman]

There are reports that McCain's "cross in the dirt" story is suspiciously similar to a story in Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's "Gulag Archipelago." Love those Republican values!

[Michael]

Liberal media, right.............

[Jordan Loder]

It's funny that you say that because to me, he looked uncomfortable and shaky as usual. Also interesting to note that all of Senator Obamas answers are readily viewable by a quick qoogle search while there are only two short clips of Mccains, one of which has no video to it. This is exactly what happened with Ron Paul, the media reports things that are not true and the majority of people just believe it. Then again the GOP has Diebold so who needs voters

[john baguta]

NO COMPARISION BEWEEN OBAMA AND McCAIN
Obama is towering chrismatic personality, young, energetic, full of wisdom, compassion and human dignity in his golas. Where, McCain has alomst passed his political life making waves here and there, never was trusted by any one, has no political wisdom but would like to continue the failed and miserable policies of Bush-Cheney. American by this time knows well who is right and who will be the WINNER in November. In my view Obama will win with not 10-15% margin but may be 20-30%. An great historical win, who will change the image of America and will make the world more peaceful, resource full, and just and fair for all..

[Hilary Smith]

When you say triumph, you mean McCain triumphed over himself right? Yeah, his Saddleback performance was a departure from his usual bumbling. Listen, whatever it is you think about Obama, the reality is that John McCain is not smart enough to be our president. McCain is not capable of navigating the increasingly complicated international environment that exists now and will exist into the future. McCain’s strong-arm, knee-jerk, black-white thinking makes him no better than the current Russian leadership. Vote for Obama if you care about regaining American moral authority and bringing economic stability back to the working-class.

[FV]

Triumph?!? Did the LA times just get bought by the OC register?!?

The only 'triumph' McCain had saturday was remembering his blatantly rehearsed lines/lies.

It's SO obvious he had been fed the questions ahead of time, and THEN to be even more insulted he REPEATEDLY disobeyed the Pastor's request to avoid stump speachs and made his appearance exactly that.
McCain should change his name to McCheated.
Obama OWNED his butt at this forum.... that is an obvious fact to anyone possessing a functional brain.

[McCain is Bush]

Say, does anybody have the footage of the Anti-American propoganda films John McCain made for the Viet Kong during the Vietnam war? I didn't find it on YouTube.

[Freddie]

THIS IS YOUR TYPICAL REPUBLICAN NONESENSE, JOHN MCAIN HAS NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT, VIETNAM AND STUPID ATTACKS, WHAT ELSE HAS HE PROPOSED TO DO TO THE AILING ECONOMY BESIDES GIVING MORE TAX BREAKS TO THE AFFLUENT, ALL HE SAYS IS THAT OBAMA WILL RAISE YOUR TAXES, WELL, I PREFER TO PAY FOR STUFF THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE THAN TO HAVE MY 5YR OLD PAY FOR IT, THIS IS YOUR TYPICAL MCBUSH ECONOMICS, WHY SHOULD I ELECT THIS SEPTUAGENARIAN WHO KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT THE ECONOMY AND HIS ECONOMIC ADVISER CALLS ME A WHINNER BECAUSE I COMPLAIN ABOUT $4 GALLON PRICE OF GASOLINE? GIVE ME A BREAK, WELL THERE ARE THOSE WHO THINK IT IS OK TO HAVE A PRESIDENT WHOSE OWN HEALTH WILL BE A PROBLEM MORE THAN THE HEALTH-CARE SYSTEM OF ALL AMERICANS, GIVE ME A BREAK!, I WILL NOT VOTE FOR YOUR GRANPA!

[Warren K]

Triumph? The triumph of the cheaters must be. McCain can go any lower that lying to a reverend in a religious forum inside a church. What is next?

[Jose]

Since we seem intent on stomping out the first amendment, why don’t we just throw out the constitution and establish a theocracy?

[Warren K]

Triumph? The triumph of the cheaters must be. McCain can go any lower that lying to a reverend in a religious forum inside a church. What is next?

[Kay Simons]

Interesting that this was supposed to be all about morals and doing/saying what was morally right. Funny that none of the news organizations are covering that the basic rules of the forum were broken by McCain's campaign, giving him access to questions for a full half-hour ahead into the forum. Click my name for video at yutube if you don't believe it.

Who has moral character - one who implies he has followed the rules? Or one who follows the rules?

[Janice Silverman]

Did anyone notice that McCain defined "rich" as having an income of over $5 million?

[bern]

What Saddleback triumph? McCain cheated...in church.

McDummy knew the questions in advance. He can't be trusted to tell the truth or to run the country.

[Terry]

Obama was terrible on Saturday.

Obama is not used to churches - he's more comfortable in mosques.

[Ron]

Rick Warren.....
"How was it like in the CONE OF SILENCE "
John McCain....
"I tried to put my head against the wall to see if I could hear any of the answers" Laugh Laugh

It's not the deed ... it's the cover up.... Why is the McCain camp all riled up ? He cheated.
Why wasn't his answer " You know Rick... I have to be honest.. I got here late and didn't make it to the CONE OF SILENCE when I needed to be, but I didn't hear anything.

[Bum Chicken]

Obama's decision to speak out against war in Iraq in October 2002 was the "most gut wrenching" he's ever made? When running unopposed for re-election to the Illinois State Senate in a liberal district that votes 90% Democratic? In a city (Chicago) that one month later would give 82% of its votes to the most vocal opponent of the build-up to the war in the United States Senate at the time (Dick Durbin)? Please. If not for the requirements of his foreign policy judgment "fairy tale," it should have been the easiest and most politically convenient call he ever made.

[NK]

John McCain didn't really answer many of the questions thoughtfully - instead focusing on the military for the majority of his responses rather than opening up about faith. He used the forum to basically talk about his military experience and what his treament was like in the camps. I did like some of the crispness of his answers, Obama tended to be more conversational and reflective which at times appeared less than precise. I appreciated Senator Obama's nuance compared to Senator McCain's stark black or white answers. At least Senator Obama explained why he wouldn't have wanted Justice Thomas and Scalia on the bench as well as his issue with Justice Roberts. McCain just said he would remove all the liberal judges without any rationale behind them other than them being liberal. McCain's answer on "evil" was also very basic...what would you do against evil?..."Defeat it". He twitched slightly here too with a sense of anger. This is the same kind of black or white us or them thinking that got us buried in Iraq.

While I thought McCain did better in the forum than his speeches, listening to him only solidified his position as a war hawk who will likely use the military as an answer to everything - which by a majority of accounts is not what is needed in the 21st century foreign policy.

[Michael A.]

Talk about sour grapes and SORE LOSERS.

Re the Saturday forum:

(empty suit): Equivocating, ambiguous, vacillating.
McCain: Resolute.

"Above my pay grade?????" If elected, (empty suit) will likely choose 2 or 3 new justices to the Supreme Court, in whose hands will be the fate of Roe v. Wade and he says it's "above [his] pay grade" to decide when legal rights begin?????

Like I keep saying, it's like asking the paper boy to run the paper.

GO (empty suit) Lemmings, GO!

[Beth Harrison]

It is no surprise at all that out of every Democrat's mouth will come the opinion that McCain was fed the questions and therefore cheated because he had a firm and direct answer for every question. It's not hard to readily answer a question when your core values are strong and consistent. When they are not, you tend to take a longer time to answer; giving thought to what will sound good for the "right wing" all the while being "politically correct". I find it ironic that God has richly blessed a ministry like Rick Warren's since; he of course, must also be a cheat and liar. Go ahead, put your trust in the new Obamessiah - God is watching!

[Ang]

McCain is God. He will destroy evil. And as everyone knows that evil is anything that prevents the oil companies from making their billions in profits every quarter.

[HFF]

Regarding patriotism and serving our country, I note that a higher percentage of American president's have been assassinated while serving in office (four = Garfiled, McKinley, Kennedy of forty-three or 9.3%) than have died while in military service, even during wartime (for examples, Civil War = 7%, Vietnam War = 2%).
Using one's willingness to die for one's country, being a serious contender for President is in itself as strong an indication of patriotism as we have.

[Kathy]

Oh my...attempting to claim that Senator McCain cheated at the forum....simply because Senator Obama did not do very well in comparison. Desperation?

[Richard Terrell]

It's really interesting that even the liberal LA Times had to admit that McCain mopped the floor with Obama. This was the difference in a lightweight and a professional heavyweight. Obama bobbed and weaved and McCain delivered knockout punches time after time. McCain knows who he is. Obama is defined by his liberal supporters whom he doesn't want to offend. He is a sham and not ready for prime time. What a disgrace that this is the best the Dems have to offer America.

[An Independant]

The objective of the forum was to see through the souls of these candidates.
As an independent and with totally unbiased view, I think Obama came very good in fullfilling the
objective. I felt very comfortable as he showed his reasoning and analytical qualities.
He was always ready to have healthy conversation and that was the motive of the forum.

On the other hand, Mccaine seemed to be opposite. He took this as an election debate kind of thing.
Taking words from the old speeches and whenever there was time for discussion he just avoided by his firm tone.
In this world we definitley dont require those tried and tested believes and ideas which John M is bringing with him. We need to add new thought process to the Amaerican believes which John M does not seem to have at all.

As a true christian , I have started leaning towards Obama for now.

[Steve007]

In point of fsct, I agree with Obama on the issue of abortion and some others as wel. lBut facts are facts.

While the questions were theoretically about "values"(non-hardcore doctrinaire minister asked the questions in front of a church-going audience), they were perfectly valid questions for anyone.

I presume the press will emphasize the differing opinons on abortion in an attempt to obscure the main fact, which is that McCain just rolled all over Obama. Mr.Cool and Supercilious Ivy Leaguer just philosophized, parsed, nuanced, rambled, fumbled, sought to explain. McCain stated his clear reasoned tough-minded beliefs with occasional touching stories in the context of the question about his time as a POW.

It was a boy searching for answers versus a seasoned man who knew the answers. Great job by McCain! No honest objective viewer can deny it.

[Republican]

I liked the audience's cheering and clapping to show support for John McCain's straight talk.

[Samuel Twain]

I went to the Dodger game and the score was -
Reds 10 - Dodgers 2
But the fans cheered more for the Dodgers... so the Dodgers won...
Obama won that round for sure...

[Claire Solt PhD]

People who make baseless slurs just make themselves look bad. Think about it and shut up; unless you were a POW, too.

[Steven]

Entertaining......please check your facts before spewing vitriol. McCain had less advance info on questions than did BO. All he did was answer, which the charismatic Mr Obama had considerable difficulty doing uncoached.
Also, please rsearch BO's background in the Chicago political machine.....you want change...... that's all you'll have left from your hard earned wages.

[troy]

well, what this formum showed is that MR Obma is not ready for primetime. McCain didn't answer Obma's question for him. And I hate to say it 250K is not rich, it depends on where a person live, or their comfort level.

As for the rich, who do you think pays your paycheck? Its not the poor. If you want jobs, let the people that make them, profit from them.

[chase_79]

So some of you say McCain cheated? To me, you're saying that McCain did a much better job then your canidate. Grow up.

And the 5,000,000 dollar comment Janice, instead of watching the saddleback forum maybe you should have gotten your hearing checked and maybe even a ct scan.

McCain was joking he even said he was joking and that idiots like you would spin it and use it against him. Congrats john mccain is one step ahead of you.

It was tax question and Mccain said he didnt want to raise taxes on anyone. He said that the spending was out of control. Raising taxes wouldn't help it, it would just justify it. Obama wants to raise taxes on families who make 250,000 dollars or more. Great, so the harder you work and the more you accomplish the government gets to take it away from you for their ridiculous spending spree, great solution.

[Ed Weirdness]

I thought Rick Warren was an "Obama man"? What, he is? Wow, even with softball questions form one of his fans, Barack Obama still manages to come off as unprepared.

[Jesus]

Jesus Would be a Democrat (Overall)

I believe that Jesus Christ would be pro-life... I also believe that he would be against the death penalty, against initiating a war with Iraq, against the torturing and detaining of prisoners without due process, against spying on thy’s neighbors, against offshore drilling for more of the types of fuels that are destroying our (and his father’s) planet, for our duty to provide adequate social services for the least of us (old, poor, disabled) and opportunity for the disadvantaged, and that he would show nothing short of compassion for same-sex marriages.

I believe that he would also show compassion for the woman if child birth would be fatal, but that if a woman’s pregnancy had resulted from rape, he would still be pro-life and see the pregnancy as a blessing.

These are not necessarily my beliefs, but I do believe they would be Jesus’, and therefore, I believe that overall, he would be a Democrat.

[Republican]

The candidate forum hosted by Rick Warren was a setting that favored John McCain.

[Andrew]

At least Obama didn't striaght up lie about his past to gain acceptance from the religious.

Here is the "cross in the sand" story McCain used in a speech in 2000.

"Many years ago a scared American prisoner of war in Vietnam was tied in torture ropes by his tormentors and left alone in an empty room to suffer through the night. Later in the evening a guard he had never spoken to entered the room and silently loosened the ropes to relieve his suffering. Just before morning, that same guard came back and re-tightened the ropes before his less humanitarian comrades returned. He never said a word to the grateful prisoner, but some months later, on a Christmas morning, as the prisoner stood alone in the prison courtyard, the same good Samaritan walked up to him and stood next to him for a few moments. Then with his sandal, the guard drew a cross in the dirt. Both prisoner and guard both stood wordlessly there for a minute or two, venerating the cross, until the guard rubbed it out and walked away."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.ht ml?res=9904EFDE1239F93AA15751C0A9669C8B6 3&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn had a similar story in his pulitzer prize winning novel, a book and a person McCain talks about extensively inn his own 2007 publication.

"World-famous Russian author Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was sent to a Siberian prison because he criticized communism. Languishing there under intolerable conditions year after year, he decided to end his life. But suicide, he firmly believed, would be against God's will. He thought it would be better for a guard to shoot him.
So at a public assembly of the prisoners, he sat in a front row, planning to get up and walk toward an exit, compelling a guard to kill him. But to his surprise, another prisoner sat down, blocking his exit. That unknown man leaned over and, to Solzhenitsyn's astonishment, drew a cross on the dirt floor.
The cross! Wondering if that fellow prisoner might be a messenger from God, Solzhenitsyn resolved to endure his imprisonment. There in prison he became a Christian and was eventually set free to bear witness to the world."

Whether McCain was in a "Cone of silence" or not is a moot point when it comes to lying about your faith. McCain is a sham.

[patrick]

"Triumph"? A GOP candidate appears before a conservative Christian audience, utters a few anecdotes from his stump speech, and gets applause? That's a triumph? You're setting the bar pretty low, aren't you?

[viktor]

wow, and to think that possibly a russian interrogator(they did have plenty of them in Vientam) may just have read about Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn and behaved from the story in the same manner. Would that be a stretch? I think not. Even if the guard were asian, much russian literature was spread throughout the Vietnamese officer corp in order to get a common ground.
Or maybe it was all a setup to remove credibility if he were to run for president in some future time. Maybe the story by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was awarded the pulitzer in 1970 for Gulag Awareness. Could it possibly be that the McCain's (taken prisoner) story was related to Solzhenitsyn? Odd that possibly a Russian author might receive a story from a russian interrogator. Or maybe while researching his book, he came across the story and being certain that the POW was dead or never going to make that story public, related it as his own?
Or, maybe somone heard the story in russia, found it meant something for them, and in turn did a good deed for another to ease his guilt for what he had to do to people in the name of communism.
Let's hear Barry's struggles. I am sure there are plenty of them in relation to hell week at the frat at harvard. Or working hard on his tan as a youngster at a private school in Hawaii. Or maybe even how it was such a chore keeping those women in line and happy while pushing his agenda in chicago.
Better yet. Ask Barry and John questions. Who thinks that they don't get paid enough to think for themselves?