Wesley Clark targets John McCain, then takes return fire

Some Democrats have been known to complain that the party's last two vice presidential nominees -- Joe Lieberman in 2000 and John Edwards in 2004 -- shied away from the "attack dog" role often assumed by the politician holding down the second spot on a party's national ticket.

If Barack Obama is looking for combativeness in his pick, retired Gen. Wesley Clark signaled today that he's up to the task. Then again, Clark may have pursued a critique of John McCain that Obama and his aides would just as soon stay away from.

Appearing on the CBS chat show "Face the Nation," Clark -- who has rated prominent mention as a veep prospect both because he was a strong Hillary Clinton supporter and his credentials on the national security front -- backed off not one bit from his previous characterization of McCain as "untested and untried" as an executive leader.

Pressed on that quote by moderator Bob Schieffer, Clark said that "in the matters of national security policy making, it's a matter of understanding risk, it's a matter of gauging your opponents and it's a matter of being held accountable. John McCain's never done any of that in his official positions. ... He hasn't held executive responsibility. That large squadron in the Navy that he commanded wasn't a wartime squadron. He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall. ..."

Pressed further by Schieffer, Clark then delivered perhaps the day's marquee quote:

"I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president."

The McCain campaign responded quickly, teeing up Clark as a surrogate for the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee and blasting away:

"If Barack Obama's campaign wants to question John McCain's military service, that's their right. But let's please drop the pretense that Barack Obama stands for a new type of politics. The reality is he's proving to be a typical politician who is willing to say anything to get elected, including allowing his campaign surrogates to demean and attack John McCain's military service record."

For a wrapup of some of the other back-and-forth on the Sunday shows -- including independent White House contender Ralph Nader pressing the assault he unleashed last week on Obama -- see this posting on the Chicago Tribune's Swamp blog.

And The Times' Evan Halper recounts the needling California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger took from NBC's Tom Brokaw during a "Meet the Press'" appearance. As Halper notes in his story, Schwarzenegger generally gets fawned over by the national media, but that wasn't the case in this encounter.

-- Don Frederick

Comments

[Christopher]

Two words that have just in the past week changed the course of this election. We may not see it now or in the coming weeks, but this turkey's cooked.

North Korea.

[ghostcommander]

I simply cannot get out of my mind the picture of John "Baghdad Bob" McCain standing in the market in Baghdad with body armor and surrounded by a large group of heavily armed American soldiers telling his fellow Americans and the world that everything was peaceful and wonderful in Baghdad. How many of our brave young soldiers have been killed since that lying statement. Can we really trust what he says or should we check out his voting record and see what he really does?

[Greenjeans]

John McCain deserves credit for his wartime service. That was thirty years ago. Today, McCain is an empty suit without the courage to stand for any principles. This is borne out by his complete abandonment of virtually everything he said he stood for before his presidential campaign began succeeding as his rivals' campaigns imploded. A vote for McCain is a vote for warrantless wiretapping, endless war, torture, opposition to Roe v. Wade, immigration back and forth, radical right wing judicial appointments, no economic plan, coziness with the lunatic fringe of the evangelical movement, and anything else his neocon advisers tell him to do to consolidate power for the corporate elites. Vote no on McSame.

[brkdckdawg]

in this time of hero worshipping gone mad from the clerk at the supermarket to the pizza delivery person all being classified as real American heroes gen. Clark speaks what many of us are thinking the same as when it was pointed out that Rudy g was just a noun a verb and 911 as much as we all empathize with McCain for what he went thru he was not the only pow in that war who suffered at the hands of his captureers but being a pow doesnot give one national security credentials nor does empathy or sentiment replace commonsense RIGHT RUDY G?

[Kevin Keller]

I would like to hear from General Clark where he thinks Obama's Executive and "bomb dropping experience" comes from?

If Clark wants to help Obama, he should go away.

[Scott]

I don't seem to recall Senator Mcain spending any time referencing his military record. As for Clark, apparently he doesn't realize that his failed career as an on air miltary pundit doesn't qualify hin to be a political analyst.

[Patriot]

It's about time somebody called McCain on this! He graduated 894 out of 899 from Annapolis. He became a Navy pilot in deference to his Admiral Father and Grandfather. He lost 4 planes before being shot down in the fifth. He spent most of the Vietnam War i the Hanoi Hilton doing who-knows-what (not helping the war effort, for sure). He has ALWAYS been a liability to our government and has never collected a non-government paycheck. Hero my ass! McCain is an flip flopping warmonger who needs to retire.

OBAMA 08

[sarantx]

This, from the man who once said he's have been a Republican if Karl Rove has just asked him.

No one - and I mean no one - has the right in any form, to question John McCain's service to this nation. Not now - not ever. I am a John Edwards voter. I was trying to reconcile Obama. Not anymore. He should never have allowed this.

[Michael Day]

I disagree, perhaps not respectfully, but certainly with total conviction, to the yapping little Yorkies that are going after J McC on this one.

First, it does count, and it is germane. Just as John F. Kennedy's wartime service in the second world war counted, JMcC's service in VIetnam counts. It counts to know that when it is REALLY tough, you know that this person is tough. It counts that when it was easier and considerably less painful for him to take the easy road out, JMcC took the road that was right-but very painful. Most who have served would know this, which is where most of these who attack him come up a little short I suspect. General Clark auditioning for a role as VP does not withstanding, I doubt that many vets are going to go after JMcC on this. They may disagree with him on policy, but not on a matter as basic as the value of honor.

Obama fanatics recoil from this like darkness recoils from light. They recoil from it because BO will throw anyone and anything he believes at the moment under the bus the moment it becomes more hurtful than helpful, and the comparison between the candidates on this is stark. This has value today because, unlike when he was in the Senate, PRESIDENT Obama would not be able to vote "present" 100 times plus when tough decisions needed to be made. By contrast in recent years JMcC has stood for immigration reform when the entire Republican party was against it, told voters in Michigan that not all the auto jobs were coming back, and told the voters in Florida (when he REALLY needed them) that he didn't think that Federal hurricane insurance was a good idea. In all those cases, whether it was standing up to his captors when he had an offer to go home or telling voters the truth instead of what they wanted to hear, courage and conviction are absolutely important factors in the consideration of a President.

The second reason that his service was germane was the concept of service itself. I suspect that the more fanatical of the "O-Zombies" recoil from this concept for the the same reason that Obama never served. Whether they were "too good for it", or whether service was something that "the little people did", either way, the selfishness of those who live under the cloak of freedom provided by others and then attack those who volunteer to provide it has a unique and repugnant stench. When JMcC is around them they are reminded of their civic failure in comparison, so the only thing for them to do is to try and reduce the value of his honorable service.

Ultimately, the choice of a President is far less about specific policies than it is about the character of the individual. JMcC, whether you agree with him or not (and I do disagree with him on many things), has proven that he will take the tough road, while Obama will take the easy one. Those who are attacking JMcC ought to be ashamed, but shame must be another thing reserved for the little people. I guess anything is permissible when your cause is so noble, right O-Zombies? Lord help us.

[X Herrera]

Clark thinks Obama could make better strategic decisions for our country, oh yeah like bombing Pakistan, over someone whom practiced honor while held captive by our enemies. Obama practices courage only when it becomes apparent it could interfere with his political goals. Clark lacked moral courage he waited until his pension began before speaking up. He’s a loser yet again.

[Johnsy]

General Clark should have been the nominee in 2004.

[Jack]

Will all respect to the LA Times...This article does not state how the exchange happened on Face the Nation and somewhat distorts what Clark said and how he said it.

Schieffer noted that Obama did not have any of those experiences, nor had he "ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down."

"Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president," Clark said.

Which his a perfectly fair statement. He responded to a Schieffer comment. Period

[E.D]

Wesley Clark is a piker. If he wants to help Obama...he should shut-up.

[volunteer]

When is the media going to vet wesley Clark ie. why was he removed as European US services command

He was seen as a back slapper in the military and did something that caused the military to remove him

Do your job media

[volunteer]

Why people are so impressed with a community organizer fro Chicago with questionable relationships is beyond me

Wake up people your being conned by a con-man

Look at his inconsistencies and get your heads out of the clouds

[HELEN SABIN]

To patriot and other Obama supporters: John Mccain has years more experience in EVERYHTING than Obama. OB has NOT stated anything substantive on ANY issue except raising taxes!!

Further OB uses a FIRED AF general as his surrogate and who was fired by CLINTON!! can you imagine how bad Clark was if Clinton fired him? Ask folks in the AF and they say, Clark was NOT a good general! My Colonel husband is one!

OB has NO experience in war, little in politics, doesn't know the economy, is against the second amendment, will raise taxes on us ALL - and he gives one million of our tax money to his wife's hospital!! NICE GUY HUH?

Who else will he enrich with OUR TAX MONEY??

[mtn2top]

It is a stupid political ploy and huge mistake to question the heroic nature of John McCain's military service. This can only backfire on Obama.

[primarywatcher]

McCain's response to Clark's comments are about as lame as they come. Obviously Clark's impressive authority was beyond reproach as the McCain camp immediately unleashed their peevish assault on Obama. What a pathetic spin. Clark would be a FANTASTIC VP! Would love to vote for an Obama/Clark ticket!!!!!

[MSG R. Moore]

General Wesley Clark is the most brilliant military man alive today. General Clark is 100% correct. John McCain has no military ground combat experience and isn't qualified to make decisions related to ground combat operations. Getting shot down doesn't give a person ground combat experience.

[primarywatcher]

Posted by: Jack | June 29, 2008 at 07:11 PM WROTE:

Will all respect to the LA Times...This article does not state how the exchange happened on Face the Nation and somewhat distorts what Clark said and how he said it.

Schieffer noted that Obama did not have any of those experiences, nor had he "ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down."

"Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president," Clark said.

Which his a perfectly fair statement. He responded to a Schieffer comment. Period
----------------------------------------------------------------

XCLNT!! Thanks for that important clarification.

[Bill M]

Kudos to Michael Day; excellent commentary!

If the fired-from-his-military-command Wesley Clark views John McCain as an inexperienced, unproven "empty suit," where does that leave Obama and his almost total lack of relevant experience?

O made a good speech at a convention, served as a part time Senator for a few years, and sat in the pews of a rabid preacher for a few decades (without hearing a word).

What does that qualify him for? Perhaps a TV talking head the likes of Wesley, but surely not the US presidency.

[Robin B]

I don't remember Clark making these arguments about John Kerry during the last election. If heroic military experience doesn't qualify McCain, then neither did it qualify Kerry. But of course Clark is selective when it comes to applying his standards. He's a Democrat, after all.

[jackstpaul]

Everyone should know that McCain himself has referred to himself using the "just getting shot down” phrase as a way to diminish put in perspective his own military record, that is to say--as I've heard him--tot he effect what sort of military leader does it make you to get shot down and what sort of hero does it make you to get shot down? It doesn’t, as McCain has noted.

Clark is right on - and right off, as some interpret his words.

His point is that being in the military doesn't make one qualified to be a military leader--as Prez is as Commander-in-Chief. McCain was of a rank in the military matched or outranked by how many tens of thousands at any given time (across all services)? McCain wasn't a military leader of a y weight - at all - was Clark’s point. Ike was a real military leader, so was Clark--there are something like 1-2 Army 4 star generals at any given point in time. Clark led a whoel swath of military forces. McCain at best led a squadron of pilots. That’s not policy-making, decision-making, that's not weighing political interests, that's not weighing military interests other than on a very small scale.

But people have made McCain into some sort of military/national security/foreign policy God. He was a run-of-the-mill officer and his notoriety comes from being a POW.

[MowTin]

You know that kid who just barely graduated and almost failed every class? Well that's John McCain. He graduated nearly last in his class. I guess that qualifies him to be president.

I though we were done electing C students to the presidency.

John McCain keeps claiming he has experience but as Clark correctly pointed out McCain has NO EXECUTIVE EXPERIENCE...NONE. He's just old...and dumb.

[Chuck Cardiff]

Um, does anyone think that Wesley Clark's piddling command in Kosovo qualifies him as military genius? The scary think is that Clark apparently thinks it does.