Fight or not? Hillary Clinton supporters are split

Now that the Democrats have voted on seating the disputed delegations from Florida and Michigan (all the delegates get to come, but they only get half a vote each), some of Hillary Clinton's highest-profile supporters are divided over what should happen next.

You'll recall that those two states broke party rules by moving their primaries ahead of the dates on the Democrats' schedule. Primary voters in Michigan and Florida were told that their votes would not count, and Democratic candidates did not campaign in either state. In Michigan, Clinton's was the only name on the ballot; the other choice was "uncommitted."

Top adviser Harold Ickes, a member of the rules committee, appeared on CNN's "Late Edition" Sunday and reiterated his threat to take the matter to the party's credentials committee at the convention in August. He and other Clinton backers are upset that the committee allocated 69 of the Michigan votes to their candidate and 59 to Barack Obama, who was not on the ballot. (By their count, Clinton should have gotten 73 delegates and "uncommitted" 55.)

He did acknowledge that after the final three primaries -- today's in Puerto Rico and Tuesday's in South Dakota and Montana -- Obama could be in a position ...

... to claim the votes needed to capture the nomination. Based on the current delegate math (which takes into account the rules committee decision Saturday on the seating of the Florida and Michigan delegates), that figure is 2,118.

But, he added, "in our view, the final number for the nomination will not be fixed until Michigan is ultimately resolved."

Another Clinton adviser, Mandy Grunwald, argued on CBS' "Face the Nation" "that in the way delegates were apportioned by the rules committee yesterday, they broke their own rules. And that's a terrible precedent. That's a terrible precedent. That's why our campaign has said we will consider taking this fight to the convention."

"Just to explain -- they took the votes, the delegates, and apportioned them the way they chose," she said. "It had nothing to do with the way votes were made in Michigan. That is an arbitrary ruling that simply violates the rules of our party."

But appearing on the same program, one of Clinton's most prominent supporters seemed to back away from a battle.  Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell started his comments by noting, "I'm not inside the campaign mechanism, but I believe she'll do the right thing for America."

"I don't think we're going to fight this at the convention, because even were we to win it, unless it's going to change enough delegates for Sen. Clinton to get the nomination, then it would be a fight that would have no purpose," he said.

That view was bolstered by an Obama supporter, Sen. Claire McCaskill, who also appeared on CBS. Asked about a fight over credentials, she said: "I think we all want to believe that will not happen. And I think Sen. Clinton will do the right thing."

-- Leslie Hoffecker

Comments

[charles NJ]

Fight on to the convention Hillary-- YOU are the BEST Candidate.

[Alessandro Machi]

Hillary Clinton is the more popular candidate.

http://www.Florida-Michigan.com
http://www.CaucusCheating.com
http://www.Hillary-Wins.com

[Frank]

The Party must not yield to the Veiled Threats from the Clinton Campaign.
Nobody is stealing this campaign from Hillary,.. she’s losing it. As an former Hillary supporter I will candidly state, that her greatest mistake was revealing her true self to the voters.
As the father of three daughters, I had hope that we would have a woman candidate that reflected the qualities that would advance the cause of women. My hope at this point is that Hillary’s demonstration does not send the message that gender is more important than good character.
The Clinton’s “Rule changing tactics” and veiled threats was farther reflected by Mandy Grunwald, a longtime Clinton advisor on Face the Nation. When did the measure for the Party’s presidential nominee change from “Delegates” to “Popular Votes”? It has not and will not do so. Its as if they are saying: "Here is something you can use ("The Popular Vote") to steal the nomination for me, because if you do not I will undermine the November election". Is this a preview of what a President Hillary Clinton would be like? Its hard to determine Hillary's motivation at this critical point..."Selfishness" or "Madness"?
“We the People”, can not place our nation’s trust in this candidate. Hillary’s resistance to play by the rules of the Party and lack of respect for the voters, speaks volumes as to her true character and that of many of her advisors.

[Confused]

Other than Hillary showing just a tad of what she is capable of in fighting a dirty fight so far... I only have one question. Why the hell does Puerto Rico get a vote? If they are unwilling to become a state, pay taxes or become citizens, why do they get to help decide who runs our country? Am I missing something or is it just me? Someone please explain this to me. If PR gets a vote, why not America Samoa or the Virgin Islands? Help me out here.

[phood]

I'm not sure what the purpose of Hillary taking this to the convention would be? She isn't going to win it, and her attitude is not winning her any respect or super delegates.
This is simply roiling the ranks against Obama who will need the Dems to rally around a win in November.'
To listen to the Clinton rhetoric, she is the ONLY person on the planet who can be president. This is simply not true.
If you compare the two campaigns of the democratic frontrunners there is considerable talent, savvy and toughness to spare. This feels like HIllary is painting herself into a corner and I don't see what it serves, except ego.

[William H. Stoddard]

I think the Democratic National Committee did exactly the right thing, and indeed the only thing they could have done, in insisting on penalties for Florida and Michigan. It isn't as if the legislatures of those states hadn't been warned before they made their decisions. If they get away with jumping into the primaries early, with no penalties, then what would stop other states from doing the same next time around? Just imagine California holding its primary on the first Tuesday of January 2012, or even the last Tuesday of December 2011! We could totally dominate the early primary season; the candidate who took California would have a huge lead in the primaries. Is it really a good idea to go down that road?

The fact that Hillary Clinton is more concerned about her personal ambitions that about the long-run harm from not enforcing the rules she herself agreed to is one of the strongest reasons for not wanting her to be her party's candidate.

William H. Stoddard

[Democratfor Democracy]

The Democrats did not vote on seating the delegates. It was forced down their throats by a national committee that is drowning in its own self importance. If something is not done to control these egomaniacs, the entire party and Democracy its-self are doomed.

[Larry'O]

The argument that the RBC overstepped its boundaries in awarding Obama 4 of Clinton's delegates is a red herring. If the RBC were to go by the book, they would have split the delgates 50/50 and Harold Ickes knows it. He helped write the rules in the first place.

Donna Brazile said today, on ABC with George Stephanopoulos, that Obama had the votes on the RBC to get the 50/50 split, but he took the high road and compromised for the 69/59 split. That, by the way, was what the democratic Michigan delegation had asked for.

[Andrew Austin]

Clinton's name was not the only name on the ballot. Only some of the candidates took their names off the ballots and they did so voluntarily. Uncommitted is a valid presidential preference. The only campaign run by Democrats in Michigan was an attempt to get Democrats to vote uncommitted rather than for the candidates whose names remained on the ballot. Uncommitted means uncommitted. You cannot attribute those votes to any candidates. Since four times more voters turned out in 2008 than in 2004, one cannot make the case that belief that the vote wouldn't count suppressed turnout. If anything, it enhanced turn out. Moreover, in the end, it seems the vote did count, though partially and in an perverted manner, one designed to benefit Obama - who received no recorded votes in Michigan. Incredibly, not only were uncommitted votes given to Obama, but delegates were taken away from Clinton and given to Obama. I knew it was going to go down like this, but I was still astonished. I kept thinking that maybe reason and fairness would prevail. But the party decided a long time ago that Obama will by the nominee and so they have made it so, democracy be damned.

[Steve Barry]

Hillary has already lost.

[Cat]

Clinton should contest the decision. What the DNC did by offering only a half vote for each delegate in Florida and splitting the votes 50/50 in Michigan, they spit in the face of everyone who cast their ballot. Obama and Edwards pulled their names off the ballot in Michigan and by giving Obama those uncommitted voters (which means they never made a choice either way) the DNC decided for many people who gets their vote. That is not only unethical but it tells the voters that their vote doesn't matter and the DNC will take your vote and give it to someone who didn't even earn it. A handful of people shouldn't be allowed to decide an election and who gets your vote.

I hope Clinton will fight the decision. What the DNC did was indeed hijacking the election and also penalized the voters. It seems like the Democratic Party is trying to fix this election. Why? Obama is a racist, an anti-semite and has absolutely no experience to be our next President. This man has also stated he's willing to negotiate with terrorist nations like Iran. People need to wise up and see that Obama is bad news.

The Dems also need to wake up as well. It isn't Hillary that is causing a devision in their party, it's the DNC themselves. Every vote should count, and if you want a fair election then you need to let the people be heard.

[Morsell Johnson]

Hillary is trying to destroy the party in order to serve her ambition. She is mistaken if she believes Blacks will tolerate her blatant acts of Racism and believe Blacks will support her if she is on top of the ticket after violating party rules attacking Obama relationship with her history of questionable relationships. There is a reason Blacks rallied with 90+% vote for Obama. That same passion will cause Blacks in large numbers to boycott the election and become an independent.if she steals this nomination..

[lin]

Do we want a lush answering the phone at 3 am in the morning? Particularly one who is a proven liar and who cannot tell the difference between fantasy and reality? I'm a feminist and believe Hillary's scorched-earth, hopelessly inept, shamelessly nasty campaign has proven a disaster to feminism's cause and will set us back at least twenty years.

[ApostasyUSA]

Please.....dems take the cake.........Hill is cool...it was a good contest.......there is nothing wrong with competition. I mean come on......look at the GOP "winner take all" system.......maybe if the Republicans had a more Democratic system they wouldn't be in such the crapper right now..............but for real......why in hell would I vote for the tragedians? The way I see it, the GOP lost all concept of justice. Democrats on the other hand, are still pro-choice, pro-consumer, pro-education, pro-civil liberties, pro-net-neutrality!, pro-healthcare, pro-gay rights, pro-environment, anti poverty, anti Iraq war, anti trying to teach our kids ID in science class rooms.............the way the world looks to me right now.........and believe me...I've been paying close attention to our leaders these last 15 years................. I can tell you in no uncertain terms.......that ONLY Democrats will get my vote....please... the Democrats win in 08.....there is no debate.

[political observer]

Confused - the other US territories DO get a vote. American Samoa, the US Virgin Islands, and Guam all had primaries/caucuses:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2008_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

[Charles Johnston]

I am against the Democrat committee decision and will vote Republican rather than accept a decision based on superdelegates. The people (majority) should have the final word. And please note, Obama chose not to enter his name in Michigan.

[Charles Johnston]

I approve of what I wrote

[Stupified]

Is Harold Ickes insane? Award 73 delegates to Clinton because Obama didn't have his name on the ballot?? His name wasn't on the ballot because he followed the rules as were laid out in regards to the punishment handed to the states. I do not understand how any Clinton supporter can rationally explain how she should get the delegates. A FAIR method in regards to people's desired vote, would be to simply put both candidates names on the ballot, and have a re-vote. This would settle quite quickly what people wanted to vote. Instead of this crazy "give me all the delegates because I was the only one on the ballot!"
How retarded!!!

[Chantal]

I am most grateful to Mrs. Clinton and her team for fighting to win the nomination. They are fighting for my vote. And millions of us are counting for her to win. I will not vote for any other Democratic nominee. My vote is only intended for Senator Hillary Clinton or maybe John McCain. I voted for President Reagan and President Bill Clinton. I became a supporter of Mrs. Clinton when I saw her first on 60 Minutes, I thought then, now I can have my first woman President in my lifetime. She is the most competent and the most experience of all the candidates, being a woman is even a plus. The way the Rules Committe have treated Mrs. Clinton makes me wish to change my party affilation. Thank you.

[Miche]

It is becoming clearer day by day that America is not ready for a woman president. Most of male politicians are chuvinist in disguise. They either cannot stand a woman being in power or they have a vendetta against Bill Clinton. It is truly sad that in America it is okay to be gender bias, to be putting a woman down. But on the other hand, if one makes any kind of remark, no matter how true it is against the non white race, they are damned! Shame on America for being so biase. I totally agree with the lady in one of the videos who said why is it okay for for non white to call them white but when a white calls a black person black, it becomes almost sacreligious. Much as I am a supporter of the Democrates, if Hillary is not the nominee, I hope McCaan wins with a landslide victory!

[anonymous]

Where is our country here? I am so ashamed in the past eight years to be an American. Bush has lied and lied and lied. Our brothers have died and died and died. We have killed so many innocent civillians in the name of our country. When is it going to stop?
Bill Clinton openly lied in his administration. Billary continues to lie. How can any American vote for any of this?
We are the joe public. We are not told what is really going on.
If Obama can realistically meet with some of these Yahooos and get some world peace going on ...... who are all of you to say it is wrong?

We don't all paint our God the same way. Some of us paint on the sidewalk with chalk, and some of us are picassos. We all have a rgiht to our beliefs.

No one ismore dangerous than someone killing in the name of their God. I think they are wrong. Everyone is more productive naming their God in peace.

Peace, brothers and sisters, in your own God (mine is the Lord Jesus Christ)

Obama 08

[Stephen Cobb]

Will somebody PLEASE acknowledge the fact that a lot of voters in Florida and Michigan simply did not vote in their states' primaries BECAUSE the DNC had decreed that in effect their votes would not be counted. Those voters were disenfranchised. Those voters have NOT been heard from. Yet.

If Clinton challenges at the convention, they WILL be beard from. Since a re-running of those primaries has been ruled out, the only solution has to be a somewhat arbitrary apportionment like the one agreed on Saturday.

How can Sen. Clinton argue honestly that she 'won' states where the voters were told not to vote, the candidates were told not to campaign, and some didn't even appear on the ballot?. For example, she cannot possibly know the number of votes Obama might have received if the DNC had not sanctioned those states.

[Jennie]

Just because the governor of Michigan is a friend of Hillary's and wanted to give her a boost by passing into law that the primary could be held earlier than the DNC ruled, does not mean every one of our votes shouldn't count. Obama is a goody two-shoe. Hillary fights a little dirty, but she has to. She was born to be our president. All of my friends want to tear Obama's head off. Hillary for '08!!

[wolf]

The original primaries held in Florida and Michigan, despite being unsanctioned --- were also unfair. You cannot tell people "stay home - boycott the election - your vote won't count" and then blindly go back on this later, when it suits your purpose ( as it does one candidate ) to do.

Although not perfect, I think, the RBC decision was good enough for most people. And I was very proud to see them focus so intensely upon finding a solution and sticking close to the rules - even if contrary to their own preferred outcomes.

If only we would have a Congress that did that.

[Disgusted Democrat]

I for one think she should take it to the convention. The way she has conducted herself on this campaign, the way Bill has played his games on the trail, the pimping of Chelsea, they truly need to be brought down, on live network television, coast to coast, to a humiliating defeat. This ensure that the Clinton legacy, her political career, and any remaining influence they having in the party is forever severed. At this stage of the game, and they have truly turned this into a disgusting game of personal entitlement, I no longer care about how her supporters feel, or care about their feelings! In fact, I will judge every woman that runs for office now as weak, inferior, and all to ready to use the crying game, or back stab to get their way. We have had enough of this in politics as it is, and if this is what women want to bring to the table, then STAY HOME! This country has been brought to a precipice, thanks to both the Clinton's and Bush's and their posse's of deadbeat hanger-ons that have done nothing except entrench themselves into the public purse!
So go ahead Hillary, take your ego and sense of entitlement into battle, a political pariah is truly what shall your destiny! So hurry up, announce your intentions to fight, or leave. Either way, history will not judge you kindly.