Grover Norquist has a label for Barack Obama

John McCain has been trying hard of late to link Barack Obama with Jimmy Carter in the public consciousness, hoping that the "ineffectual" label that many voters affix to the former president will prove transferable.

But Grover Norquist -- the conservative activist who specializes in promoting an anti-tax agenda and, more generally, revels in the role of agent provocateur -- is offering a different comparison.

Norquist dropped by The Times' Washington bureau today and, as part of his negative critique of Obama's liberal stances on economic issues and other matters, he termed the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee "John Kerry with a tan."

Since Norquist isn't running for anything, he can get away with such remarks; we doubt McCain will be incorporating the line into his speeches anytime soon.

Norquist's clout on the right is such, however, that McCain and his aides will pay attention to his thoughts on who would fit well in the second spot on the GOP's presidential ticket. And in his chat with Times' reporters and editors, he was especially high on Bobby Jindal, the recently elected governor of Louisiana.

Norquist touted Jindal's success in pushing through tax-cut and ethics reform legislation during his short tenure as Louisiana's chief executive (no mention was made of the flap surrounding the governor for failing, so far, to live up to a promise to block a pay raise for state legislators).

Nominating Jindal for vice president also would generate a mother lode of contributions for Republicans from Americans of East Indian descent, Norquist predicted.

Another recipient of kind words as a veep prospect was Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota; Norquist praised his record on taxes save for one "mistake" -- approving a hike in state cigarette taxes in years past.

Norquist's most recent book is entitled "Leave Us Alone," which makes the case that Republicans can put together a post-Ronald Reagan governing coalition by appealing to voters who want government to stay out of their affairs.

Along those lines, he predicted that one reason conservative radio talk show hosts will rally behind McCain -- who many of them have been cool toward -- is that some Democratic leaders are advocating a return of the "fairness doctrine." That's the abandoned federal rule that required broadcasters to give equal time to opposing political viewpoints.

[UPDATE: John Kartch, Norquist's director of communications, e-mailed Friday with "two concerns" about the post. "One, it suggests that Grover was singling out Kerry.  The entire statement was that Obama had no policy differences with Carter in 1980, [Walter] Mondale, [Michael] Dukakis, [Al] Gore or Kerry.  'Kerry with a tan,' was simply Kerry was the latest of the string. Two, to be fair to Kerry, Grover pointed out that even Kerry's reputation as a snob never went as far as Obama's contemptuous comment on middle America "clinging" to its guns and faith.]

-- Don Frederick

Photo credit: Associated Press

Comments

[Mark]

Norquist doesn't believe in government. He's not a Republican he's an anarchist.

[Jane C.]

Why is this racist?

Because all Norquist had to do to make his point was to say, "Obama is John Kerry Redux".

What does his skin color have to do with his ideology?

Norquist wants to remind everyone, "Obama's not only like John Kerry......He's an African-American!" -

You can substitute the n-word, too, because that's what Norquist wants voters to think whenever they think about Obama.

Norquist is a disgusting creature.

[Gray Robertson]

Pathetic, reminds me of the guy who tried to ridicule Steve Martins nose in Roxanne.

For substance go to Orwell on John W McCain 'reminds me of nothing so much as a dead fish before it has had time to stiffen.'

[vmjee]

Grover is it? That's his name? He looks constipated doesn't he?But sure I would be willing to vote for him for dog catcher in Ventura County.

[Carl C]

let's not forget Grover was the guy who was appealling to Muslim fundamentalists to get into & outspoken in the Repuke party as they shared "conservative family values." Then it turns out all his buddies had bona-fide ties to terrorists. I guess that's par for the course for the Repukes....

[spacerook1]

If Obama is "John Kerry with a tan."
then McCain must be "J Edgar Hoover
with a pulse"

[SqueakyRat]

See, being black is just a lifestyle. No one's born that way. Barack just needs to find Jesus.

[Rev. Michael Wilker]

I would like to hear from the reporters again. What was the follow-up question after hearing Norquist's comment on Obama's race? Maybe they were too shocked to ask a question: "What do you mean, "tan?" Someone should because Norquist is a powerful person that should be held accountable.

[David B, Ashland, OR]

If Obama is "Kerry with a tan", I guess that means Jindall is Bill O'Reilly with a tan.

Sheesh! These Repugnantcans are real pieces of s...well...you know!

[Derrick Gibson]

Did I read this right?

Grover Norquist stops by the Times Washington bureau to float the latest, "you know he's black line" (version 2.0 - Kerry with a tan) and the correction from his communications team is that Norquist wasn't insulting enough as the comment made it seem like Obama was just like Kerry, when - to their eyes - he is worse?

[Nick Weston]

The fact that a racist windbag like Mr. Norquist is even allowed to grace the pages of a NEWSpaper is why I don't subscribe to the once-great L.A. Times.

Oh, and Grover Norquist is Earl Butz with boobs.

[Watch Your Mouth Scumbag]

Everybody keep your eyes open for this piece of filth. If you don't like Obama, fine, don't vote for him. However, if you want to start throwing racist remarks around, that's a different story. I am not allowed to say what I really want to say....but I seriously hope I run into this guy on a dark sidewalk someday.

[trank]

norquist would be didley without the uncontested repetition that the talk radio has given him and guys like rove- no wonder the fairness doctrine is so scary to them- they would actually have to take criticism and would no longer be able to say whatever they want to 50 -70MIL americans without even having to take a dissenting call.

[JD51]

He wants government to leave us alone, yet he backs a party that wants to regulate our partners, our sex lives, our reproduction, our scientific research, what can or can't be taught in schools regardless of whether it's backed by good science. He backs a party that wants to listen to our private conversations without a warrant, that will torture and hold people forever without evidence or trial and that has wasted trillions of our SS retirement money. Is this guy the biggest joke or what? And republicans can't figure out why the country has turned on them. Norquist is just an a$$hole with a beard.

[Chris H]

Remember folks: We're all drowning in Grover's bathtub.

Grover's Highlight Reel:
New Orleans/Katrina
I-35 Bridge Minneapolis (Site of this year's Republi(can't) convention)
Iraq
Weak Dollar
High Gas Prices
Mortgage Meltdown

Its time to send this joker back to the ashheap of history where he belongs and remember that government:

Put a human being on the moon
Won World War II
Created the internet
National Parks
Passed Civil Rights Legislation
Just found ice on Mars

The government he wants to drown is in the service of
radicalized corprotists who believe there is no such thing as the common good.

And if he and kind are allowed to remain relevant they will make sure:

You will never get Universal Healthcare
Never get democratized access to the internet
Never get green energy

They will sell us out to China to finance their Energy Wars, which will gain us nothing except for the end of America's global leadership.

We will all be doomed to follow if Grover gets his way. And if he does, start learning Mandarin and begin to enjoy lead in your kids Tonka trucks.

Grover is a creature of a perverted 1980's Reaganism and as such he is the dying refuse of a once vibrant ideology that has atrophied in the anamatronic corpse of John Sydney McSame.

From this point forward, Grover will live under the strain of tectonic shift in a world he never bothered to understand because he was so tethered to ideological principles he failed to understand reason.

Welcome to the wilderness Grover, I hope you enjoy your irrelevance.

[Sanjay]

Mr Norquist is off base about many issues, including his assertion that (South Asian) Indians would heavily support Gov. Jindal as VP. In fact Gov. Jindal creates a fair amount of conflict among Indians, who, while proud of his accomplishments are largely mystified at his regressive social and political beliefs.

[Stephen Pitt]

Grover should check his exuberance, as it sprays foamy santorum all over the place.

http://www.light-to-dark.com/grover_santorum.html

[bazokbros]

Hey Don, why no challenge to the " John Kerry with a tan" comment?" You good ol' boys sure know how to stick together. You're just a scummy because it's clear you chose to ignore the comment.

[Plus 15]

Grover Norquist is actually one of the real villains of this period and Americas disastrous decline and economic misery.

He is one of the principal theorists and instigators of the Republicans attack on America, our Constitution and our way of life. A partner of Jack Abramoff, Karl Rove and the group who effected this embarrassing and tragic crisis for our beloved country.

Before 9/11 he lobbied Washington for Arab interests and was disgraced in DC by his now nefarious interests after we were attacked.

He's another of those political big wigs who don't seem to like or be happy in the United States.

[collegegrad]

Oh so does that mean African Americans aren't AA anymore we are just tanned?...

[Undercover Black Man]

McCain = Bush with liver spots.

[George Glass]

Kerry lost by 100,000 votes in Ohio in 2004. That was before a majority of the country had turned against the Republican's Iraq War "strategy" and before the economy tanked.

Obama could do a lot worse than have this comparison made.

That said, clearly, they're trying to turn Obama from man of the people into elitist snob, like was done to Dukakis and Kerry. Obama's a self-made man from a broken home, who until years ago was still paying off college loans. He is the American dream personified. This stuff won't stick.

[Kal]

So Bush is Clinton without a brain?

[Joe Walker]

What can you expect from a fourth-rate mind, but a cheap shot?

[Angel Elf]

Since when is stating the obvious being racist? The Libs can refer to Obama as being black as long as it suits them?

[Chris]

There was a hundred different ways to make that point without mentioning skin color. He knows what he meant.

[Earl]

Grover Norquist.....Adolph Hitler with a beard.

[phredd]

Again: It's the xenophobia, stupids!

[Bob O'Day]

Grover Nordquist:
Adolf Hitler without the military background.

[foxx]

Wow, what can you expect from a racist Republikkkan "inbred"???

[Dionysis]

And Norquist is Beaver Clever with a beard.

[Meredith]

It's almost sad that so much attention is paid to Grover Norquist. Mr. Norquist, tell me why you think Indian Americans are going to throw their money behind a candidate (Jindal) that has not only become a Catholic, but also renounced Hindu in a serious way? You clearly don't understand the culture of these same Indian Americans. Also, how would you explain away Jindal's college writings about "exorcising" the demons out of a girl that just wanted to get in his pants? Americans are fairly religious, but when you start throwing that idiocy at them, you don't understand OUR culture either.

[Andre Washington]

How Ayrian of you grover !!!!!!

[sanang]

Funny how all the Repukes are trying to connect Obama with Jimmy Carter in a negative way! As I remember wasn't it Carter who warned us about what we are going through right now in high oil prices? Wasn't he the one who was thinking ahead and had solar panels put on parts of the White House? Reagan had them removed when he moved into the White House, funny how I have not hear ONE word on the positive side of Carter from the news media.

[Peter]

I'm confused. If Norquist opposes Obama, he's a racist. Yet Norquist promotes Jindal for vice-president. Last time I checked, Jindal wasn't "a white guy" either.

My opinion: The Obamasphere has been itching for a chance to go on the offensive on the race issue. They're making a very large issue out of a very small, not necessarily funny effort by Norquist to make a joke out of how liberal Obama is. It's the Obamasphere that wants this fight -- and they'll do sommersaults and cartwheels to get it going. I think the great mass of American voters are smarter than that.

[Angie]

John Kerry with a tan? That's fine. I like John too.

[Bathtub]

Great stenography! Choice bit of actual racism! Ungrammatical update! Keep on your toes.

[Kal]

I love the comment about Mississippi being the economic engine of the USA because it has the lowest taxes. Show me a state with any taxes at all and I'll show you an empty desert.

Taxes are the price of civilization.

Yesterday someone on a TV showin Columbus pointed out that Ohio got along without an income tax for many years, thereby proving his contention that income taxes are uncessary. Itmerely proved that he is poorly educated, lacking in knowledge of history and too lazy to think. It proves that he is a GOP operative.

During the Eisenhower administration corporations were taxed at about 50%. Propserity reigned and the middle class flourished mightily. Personal taxes were low and wealth was built by most citizens.

Not so today. Is anyone out there smart enough to figure out why and how?

[soulsistah02]

X Lake wrote:

"In deeply Democratic MN, Pawlenty has saved the taxpayer numerous times. In his first term he closed a $4.5Billion deficit without raising taxes. He set a new state record with the number of vetoes this past session - protecting the taxpayer in what is already one of the heaviest taxed states. As a Minnesotan, my only fear if he does get the VP slot is that it would then be open season on taxpayers by the Demo's once again."

As a Minnesotan, I have also witnessed these dubious "no new tax" promises issued by Pawlenty. I've also witnessed property, cigarette and gas taxes go through the roof, along with the doubling of traffic violation and parking tickets, tab renewal fees, court fees and mass transit fares.

X Lake, unless you live in an igloo, these fees are nothing short of regressive taxes. I don't know what the heck you're talking about open season when a new Democratic governor comes into office. Minnesota taxpayers have been walking around with bullseyes on our backs for the past six years.

[alderdice]

Why is this guy not in jail with his co-conspirator the MacDonald-wannabe Abramoff??

[Gerald]

These guys are seeing their corrupt ways threaten they' ll say anything and stop at nothing. Check this piece on Norquist, Abramoff, Rove and the rest of the ilks.

This article appears in the August 26, 2005 issue of Executive Intelligence Review.
Abramoff Indictment Makes
Bush Regime a Fat Target
by Anton Chaitkin

Following a Federal indictment by the Florida U.S. Attorney on Aug. 11, the FBI arrested and jailed lobbyist Jack Abramoff, the financial godfather for House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Tex.). Now released on bail, Abramoff will face trial for fraud and conspiracy in the takeover and looting of the Florida-based SunCruz gambling casino cruise-ship line. SunCruz's former owner Gus Boulis was murdered in a mob-style killing on Feb. 6, 2001.

Abramoff has been an architect of the power cartel behind DeLay, feeding the Congressman money siphoned from the multi-billion-dollar empire of Indian gambling casinos and Pacific island sweatshops under Abramoff's sway.

Abramoff and his two behind-the-scenes career partners, Grover Norquist and Ralph Reed, organized the rise of "DeLay, Inc.," by coercing corporations and their lobbyists (the "K Street Project") and whipping up religious fanatics (the Christian Coalition) for the money and muscle that bought DeLay his dictatorship over Congress.

These same arrangements are at the heart of the political system sustaining the Bush-Cheney Administration. With multiple criminal and Congressional investigations now pursuing DeLay, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, and their cohorts, Abramoff's fall opens a new window on the criminal underpinnings of the entire Bush regime.

Jack, Grover, and Ralph
Tom DeLay moved up fast in the Republican leadership in the 1990s, funded by Enron and other donors through Political Action Committees (PACs), with Abramoff as DeLay's leading fixer and solicitor. The climb to power depended on Abramoff's personal ties to Grover Norquist and Ralph Reed, dating back to the trio's joint leadership of the College Republicans on behalf of radical-right financiers.

DeLay got plugged into money and influence among corporate representatives in what was known as the "K Street (home of Washington lobbyists) Project," run by political manager Grover Norquist.

Grover and Jack demanded that lobbyists work exclusively with the GOP and hire only Republicans into the lobbying firms, if they were to have access to DeLay and Congress. This became the apparatus of the Bush-Cheney Administration after 2000. Every Wednesday, Norquist presides over meetings of financiers' agents (Mont Pelerin Society/Heritage Foundation), lobbyists, herders of religious fundmentalists, and Bush/Cheney representatives.

Abramoff's first big client was the government of the U.S. Pacific territory, the Northern Mariana Islands. He got $9 million for himself and donations for DeLay's PACs by pushing virtual slave labor in the Marianas' unregulated garment sweatshops. Norquist promoted these Asian-Pacific cheap-labor schemes, while DeLay forced legislation through Congress permitting labor-crushing conditions in the islands.

Abramoff made tens of millions as America's biggest lobbyist for Indian gambling casinos, funding DeLay's PACs. DeLay exulted: "Although American Indians were for many years identified almost exclusively as part of the Democrat coalition, that view has changed. People recognize that Jack Abramoff has been an important part of this transition." (DeLay to the Wall Street Journal, July 2000, quoted in Stephen Pizzo, "Tom DeLay's Axis of Influence," AlterNet, May 14, 2002.) DeLay put through a bill in June 2000, giving land to Abramoff's Choctaw tribe in connection with casino gambling.

Federal prosecutors and Senate investigators are now probing Abramoff's reported bilking of tens of millions of dollars from his Indian clients. The scams were aided by laundering of tribal monies through donations to Norquist's Americans for Tax Reform. (Norquist was also the paid strategist for the Internet gambling industry, working with Abramoff and DeLay to profit from and protect Internet casinos.)

Abramoff and Norquist passed along to Ralph Reed monies drained from tribal treasuries. Reed was the founding executive director of Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition—the hard-core support apparatus behind DeLay, and formulator of much of his rhetoric. The tribes paid Abramoff and his junior partner, former DeLay aide Michael Scanlon, for their influence in curtailing gambling enterprises by rival tribes. Reed took millions of this casino loot and paid his Christian Coalition networks to campaign against competing casinos.

Abramoff even took millions from the Tigua Indians to reopen their Texas casino after he and Reed had secretly schemed to shut it down.

The Enron Corporation funded the startup of DeLay's array of PACs. In the late 1990s, Enron hired Reed to push its energy-deregulation agenda through the political process. Reed took in about $300,000, until Enron blew up and took the state of California into financial ruin with it. At the same time, the Karl Rove-directed Presidential campaign of George W. Bush hired Reed as a tactician and dirty trickster. By the 2004 election, Reed chaired the Bush-Cheney campaign in the southeastern U.S.A., and, with Rove, coordinated the Bush strategy for mobilizing religious mobs and demoralizing minority voters.

Interior and Offshore
The SunCruz takeover that led to Abramoff's arrest was only one of the ventures related to gambling enterprises in the complex of lobbying swindles run by the "DeLay, Inc." partners and their Administration accomplices.

The Interior Department has regulatory authority over American Indian tribes, with great potential for corrupt rewards and penalties in matters such as tribal casinos. Gale Norton, appointed as Bush's Interior Secretary in 2001, chaired the Council of Republicans for Environmental Advocacy (CREA), a corporate lobbying/influence front group set up in 1998 by Grover Norquist. CREA has reportedly received some $250,000 in contributions from Abramoff's Indian tribes.

Abramoff also made Congressional arrangements such as with Sen. Conrad Burns (R-Mont.), who became chairman of the Senate Subcommittee on Appropriations for the Interior Department.

In late January 2001, a few days after George W. Bush's first inauguration, Abramoff flew Burns' chief of staff Will Brooke to Florida for a gambling jaunt on Jack's just-acquired SunCruz line.

At the time of Abramoff's Florida trip with staff members for Burns and DeLay, former SunCruz owner Gus Boulis was strongly protesting having been shortchanged $23 million by Abramoff and his partner Adam Kidan. On Feb. 6, 2001, Boulis was gunned down in the street. Was there a connection?

Federal Election Commission records show that 16 days later, on Feb. 22, Abramoff and Kidan each gave $5,000 contributions to Senator Burns' "Friends of the Big Sky" PAC. Some $136,000 from Abramoff and his associates went to sponsor Burns' political machine in 2001-02.

Shawn Vasell, another Abramoff junior partner in the looting of Indians, went to work for Burns' staff in 2002, and then rejoined Abramoff.

Chairing the Interior Appropriation Subcommittee, Senator Burns rammed through a $3 million grant for the casino-owning Saginaw Chipewas, Abramoff's clients, from Federal education funds earmarked for poor tribes.

In the sensation of Abramoff's Aug. 11 arrest, Democratic Party ads hit Conrad Burns as an Abramoff stooge. Vice President Cheney rushed out to Montana to speak on Aug. 15 at a Burns fundraiser, praising the Senator as a loyal supporter of the Bush-Cheney agenda.

Abramoff and Kidan have now been indicted on Federal fraud charges. To get $60 million in loans for acquiring SunCruz, they allegedly forged documents and lied to the Foothill Capital firm and another lender. On Sept. 18, 2000, while closing the deal, Foothill Capital's vice president, Greg C. Walker, was treated to a seat in Abramoff's personal box at the Washington Redskins' stadium, where Walker was introduced to Tom DeLay, then the House Majority Whip.

Jack and Karl
The dubious 2004 elections, which returned Bush and Cheney to office, were conducted under provisions of the Help America Vote Act (HAVA), which had been shepherded through the Cheney-DeLay-controlled Congress. It is noteworthy that the author of the HAVA election law, Ohio Republican Congressman Bob Ney, is implicated with Abramoff and his partners.

When Abramoff sought to pressure Gus Boulis to relinquish ownership of SunCruz, Ney took to the floor of Congress to denounce Boulis as unfit to run his Florida company. After Abramoff took possession of SunCruz (and a $500,000 salary), but hadn't paid Boulis what he was owed, Ney spoke in Congress, praising Jack's partner Adam Kidan, now running SunCruz. Ney described him as a man of integrity, though Kidan was bankrupt, had been disbarred as an attorney, and was paying over $100,000 in SunCruz funds to Anthony Moscatiello, a man identified by law enforcement as an associate in the Gambino crime family and the bookkeeper of the gang's boss, John Gotti.

In the audacious Abramoff/Reed swindle of the Tigua Indians, Ney promised to insert into the HAVA law a clause reopening the Tigua casino. It was a political support deal worked out for Ney between Abramoff and the Indians. Though Ney did get Abramoff-steered contributions, Congress balked, and the Tigua clause was never added to HAVA.

Ney is known as a loyal and close associate of Presidential advisor Karl Rove, part of the Rove team that nailed the showdown state of Ohio in the filthy 2004 elections.

Rove himself has recently come under intense scrutiny, in connection with the felonious leaking of Valerie Plame Wilson's identity as a covert CIA officer (the Cheney team hit back at Plame's husband, Ambassador Joseph Wilson, for discrediting their lies that started the Iraq War.)

Here again, the Abramoff indictment invites deeper inquiries that could help set off a rip-tide, pulling down the regime.

As the Bush-Cheney Administration began in 2001, Jack Abramoff was an official member of the Administration's transition team (for the Interior Department!). Abramoff recommended that Karl Rove should take, as his personal secretary, Susan B. Ralston, who was at the time the personal aide of Jack Abramoff. Ralston got the post as Rove's executive assistant, in charge of screening calls that went to Rove, and thus affecting access to the President.

When the Plame affair went before a Federal grand jury, Ralston was compelled to testify, and had to leave the job with Rove.

Salon online magazine reported that Ralston, while working for Rove, would call Grover Norquist to ask if callers should be put through to Rove; only if Norquist approved, would the call would go through.

So, anyone attempting to reach Karl Rove might have to pass through the Norquist-Abramoff channel.

President Bush has now nominated former White House lawyer Timothy Flanigan as Deputy Attorney General, one of the most powerful officials in the Justice Department. The Cheney team apparently hopes that Flanigan would have oversight and possible control over the Plame prosecution.

But the Flanigan nomination has run into a snag. It has been revealed that when Flanigan was general counsel for the Bermuda-based firm, Tyco International, he hired Abramoff to lobby against legislation that would have barred Federal contracts to companies like Tyco that are based in offshore tax havens. In 2003-04, Flanigan paid $1.7 million to Abramoff's lobbying firm and another $1.5 million to an Abramoff front company

[From MN]

"In deeply Democratic MN, Pawlenty has saved the taxpayer numerous times. In his first term he closed a $4.5Billion deficit without raising taxes. He set a new state record with the number of vetoes this past session - protecting the taxpayer in what is already one of the heaviest taxed states. As a Minnesotan, my only fear if he does get the VP slot is that it would then be open season on taxpayers by the Demo's once again." from X lake

X Lake is full of it. Pawlenty have never won 50% majority vote in MN. He's won the percentage in a 3 pary race. He is the worst govenor ever! His great spending cuts let a bridge collapse and killed people. He would never win in a 2 party race. Let Grampa Munster pick him, who cares, he isn't going to win anyway. What's wrong with MN, Pawlenty!

[Tilt001]

Perhaps Jindal can exorcise Grover's demons.

[Gen. Buck Turgisson (USAF, ret.)]

The neocon conservative reactionary Wall Street coalition hasn't even yet played long enough with its spew in that bathtub Grover's always talking about for it all to splash out getting green over their braces and bowties. Why of course! They've gone Socialist! They took our money for themselves. It's nice to see Grover Norquist: someday soon let's take him and drown him in that bathtub of his own spew.

Incidentally, in the recent Harper's issue (January 2009), Nobel Prize economist Joseph Stiglitz's most conservative estimate of Bush-Bullshit and Company's bill to us taxpayers is 10.35 TRILLION DOLLARS. Norquist and his pals' purpose was to destroy us, and they're close to succeeding. Let's get his nose into that spew before it's too late.

[Steve B.]

It is my wish, no I will pray that Mr. Norquist becomes one of the poorest of our citizens through an act of god, even better yet because of a lawsuit, illegal action on his part or best of all his healthcare will not cover an illness, disease or accident that is outside of his control and then lets watch him deal with no social services of any kind that follows his belief in little to know taxes (and the hell with social services)!