Harold Ickes' parting shot suggests more Democratic turmoil

Maybe it will prove an idle threat.

But as the Democratic rules committee ended its lengthy meeting today in Washington today with a decision on the Michigan primary that left Hillary Clinton's campaign irate, the words from one of her chief strategists have to haunt party leaders striving for elusive unity.

"Mrs. Clinton has instructed me to reserve her rights to take this to the credentials committee," Harold Ickes said.

The rules panel, which Ickes serves on, achieved its goal of resolving one of the party's two disputed primaries -- the Florida contest -- in a way that Ickes and other Clinton loyalists indicated they could live with. And combined with the more contentious action on the Michigan vote, the result was to put Barack Obama on the cusp of securing the number of convention delegates needed to soon declare himself the presidential nominee-in-waiting.

But Ickes' admonition on Michigan means that the Clinton camp has not signed off on the new "magic" number: 2,118 delegates. And that means any claim by Obama to be the presumptive nominee will carry an asterisk -- perhaps all the way to the late-August convention in Denver.

Indeed, along with Ickes' words, the chants of "Denver, Denver" by disgruntled Clinton supporters as the rules committee gathering broke up must be uneasily echoing in the ears of other Democrats.

-- Don Frederick

Photo credit: Associated Press

Comments

[Phil Newton]

Florida and Michigan broke the rules. They were punished, but ultimately will participate in the convention.

It's done. No nomination voodoo is going to get Hillary Clinton the Democratic Party candidacy.

Done.

Move on.

[jerry]

THE ONLY REASON HILLARY AND BILL ARE FIGHTING TO MAKE THE NOMINATION IS SO THEY CAN BEAT JOHN MCCAIN IN NOV. HOW ARE YOU EXPECTED TO WIN IN NOV. IF YOU CAN'T WIN OHIO, KENTUCKY, FLORIDA, AND MANY OTHER STATES. IF HILLARY IS THE NOMINEE SHE WILL GET FLORIDA, OHIO, ARKANSAS, KENTUCKY AND OTHER STATES MUCH EASIER. REALIZE THE FACTS THAT HILLARY IS FIGHTING FOR US AND SHE KNOWS OBAMA CANT WIN...IT IS TRUE, HE REALLY CAN'T . I PROMISE YOU IF OBAMA MAKES HE WILL LOSE...HILLARY IS THE ONLY CANDIDATE THAT CAN BEAT MCCAIN IN THE SWING STATES THAT IS NEEDED AND A MUST TO WIN....

PLEASE REALIZE THAT...

HILLARY 08

THATS WHY THEY CARE..AND FIGHT...BECAUSE THEY CARE ABOUT US

[andy]

This democrat candidates conspired to boycott election by taking their names out.in Michigan and also some people who also boycotted the election should not be given fair representation for they did not exercise their right to vote .
The voters should always insist that their votes should be
counted by the people and not by the central committee
of the party .

[Munk]

The outcome of the DNC deliberations could not take away from Senator Obama and give to Seantor Clinton. And, it did just that based on two rouge states that disobeyed the rules. Hillary claimed and wanted votes counted were they were not contested by order of the DNC. Talk about dishonesty! In this respect, Hillary tried to implment Banana Republic voting tactics: Let's vote for president, I am the only candidate for which your voting counts. Somebody put this woman back on her medication.

[Munk]

God, some of you people are assinine. Hlilary should not get any votes or delegates from Michigan and Florida, BECAUSE THOSE STATES DID NOT HAVE PRIMARY ELECTIONS OR CAUCASES. The DNC voided whatever they had. How in the F**k did they count these votes when they were not legal?

Whatever they had may have been a beauty contest, a bragging contest, or whatever. But, it was neither a primary election nor a caucas.

[mtlyorel]

Leave it to the Democrats to screw themselves - again. Pity the Florida and Michigan voters who diligently stood in line to vote in a 'democratic process'. This will not go unnoticed by the other nations and indeed by the world,. when these countries are being lectured by the US on voting democracy.

Frankly Barack Obama is being a very petty and small candidate by refusing to accept all votes voted to be counted. He is going to win the nomination - with or without the two states and by allowing the votes to be counted would be a very gentlemanly gesture towards HRC and also win him much good will among the HRC supporters.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned - Barack Obama and the chickens will come home to roost for the Democratic Party come November. Another 4 years of the Grand Old Party!

[DaveT]

Sen. Clinton and Harold Ickes represent all that is bad with all politicians: greed and power. And her campaign followers who now say that if Clinton isn't the nominee will vote McCaiin, or "McSame." What happened to "change"?. Apparently it meant only a sex change. President Hillary Bush. A Republican with "Democrat" skin. Or dress. Or in her case a pants suit. There is something fundamentally wrong with Clinton. That she is the true savior for the party. That, she is not. If it means catering to white bigotry, then we have a big problem. White working class people are the key to winning the White House. Since when? The majority of the citizens in these United States are not white and uneducated. Do we disenfranchise mIllions of African Americans, Asian Americans, Latino Americans ad infinitum? The reasons now are about race. It's clear as the swastika on Clinton, Ikes and all her supporter's face. And for that matter anyone who supports McCain. A black man isn't electable. foreign
We need change. And Hillery isn't that person to do it.
She is politics as usual. Gimmicks. Lobbyists. Pandering. She tells the corn farmers of the Midwest that E85 production is not contributing to the higher cost of feed and food. Bull pucky. Corn ethanol is a dead issue now. Move on. Stop telling people what they want to hear. Sen Clinton says she is experienced with foreign policy, so her opening line is "We will nuke Iran."
Clinton is another jingoistic idiot. Like McCain. Perhaps that is why many of her supporters will turn to McSame.
And that is sad. Is the Democrat Party doomed? Perhaps. But the American Nation is doomed. Four more years of GW Bush politics. A 100 year war (according to McCain). What will it take for America to wake up? Nothing at this point. We were stupid enough to vote for 8 years of GW Bush. We are the sum of our stupidity. We deserve McCain. We deserve to go down in flames. McCain is campaigning on fear. The fear of terroist. But we are the cause in the rise of terrorism. Especially in Iraq. Iraq is a lost cause. Suni and Shiite will never form a coalition government. Never in a million years. And McCain cannot see that. Only the barrel of an American gun can keep these people "under control." American imperialism doesn't work. Imperialism doesn't work. Go ask the British. Some person said that his family is voting for McCain because his father voted for Eisenhower. Where did Ike get us? The Korean War and and unresolved outcome. We didn't "win" my friend.
Eisenhower did not support racial integration. Ike's political legacy will always be a footnote.
Now in light of former press secretary McClellan is book, we now know that this war was a sham. And that we were all mislead. And Hillary and McCain were on the war bandwagon. These are the people we want representing us in the White House? Again, because this country is a plurality, we are the sum of many parts. And much of those "parts" are sad, frustrated, bigoted and sadly uneducated individuals. A giant bell-curve. And when intelligent, well-educated people are now regarded as "elitists" it smacks of Hitler and Stalin and Chairman Mao. Politics run from a bottle Bud and a bucket of hot wings. That's who we are. And Ikes, Clinton and McCain are leading the way.

[Eric Stratton]

The behavior of Clinton and her supporters is despicable. They care not one bit about "counting every vote" in Michigan and Florida. If they did, where were they in November '07 when the decision was made to NOT count the delegates? Oh, that's right, Clinton wasn't losing then. So, she agreed to the sanctions.......right up until she started losing. Then, it was some dog and pony show, a mixture of self-righteous indignations and veiled accusations of sexism, about how the "voices" need to be heard.

What an absolutely disgusting and pathetic display put on by Clinton and her supporters today. I'm glad I have a person with dignity in Obama to vote for in November.

[sailhardy]

Hillary supporters are right. The Rules Committee should have allowed the Party to nominate two candidates to run against John McCain, and after combining their votes in the national election, awarded the presidency to the Democrat with the most votes. True, this would have meant overturning the Constitution of the United States, but a little pressure on the Supreme Court could accomplish that.

[President Obama]

All you racist who would rather have high gas prices, a terrible economy, and a never ending war in Iraq, than to vote for a black candidate, feel free to join McCain, and the Republicans in destroying this country.

If you are a real Democrat, this wouldnt even be an issue.

[SandraL]

In what alternate reality does an election in which the voters are told beforehand "your vote will not be counted" and (in one case) in which there is only one candidate on the ballot - because the others were encouraged to remove themselves - constitute a "democratic election"? Apparently, this bizarro world exists in the minds of Hillary Clinton and her supporters.

Florida and Michigan knowingly broke the rules, and they are very lucky that their delegations will be seated at all. Clinton agreed early on that those votes would not be counted and only changed her tune and started playing "defender of democracy" *cough**choke* when it became obvious that she was going to need those votes to have any chance at winning.

What's going on now is a farce. Clinton can whine all she wants, but everybody except her most brainwashed followers can see what's really happening here. If she continues to insist that the DNC spit on democracy so that she can have her coronation, I suspect a lot of superdelegates who previously supported her will jump ship, and fast.

[MaggieCat]

She started her campaign with the bigggest namebrand in the political world.

Her spouse is a former President of rock star dimensions.

She was supposed to be the presumptive nominee from the beginning of her ill-managed campaign. No one put a gun to her head and forced her to enter the race as the arrogant person she was prior to Iowa.

She has been absolutely ruthless in every negative attack against every male competitor throughout this year, from Edwards to Obama. Funny how Obama was gracious to give her a pass on the latest gaffe regarding RFK assassination remarks.

She said pretty much the same thing in an interview with Newsweek and she was given a pass then.

Another by the way; when the rare time that any of her opponents in this year long race have ever criticized her, she then cries, Abuse!

She has been given a pass on every mispeak uttered out of her mouth from NAFTA to Bosnia.

She can claim that she had nothing to do with any of the ugly things launched at Obama, but the funny thing is that there is always one of her camp involved.

She boasts the support of white racists as her justification for being the nominee. Despicable!

I remember her insistence on Obama during one of the debates, that he use the right exact word to denounce, reject, renounce the support of Farrakhan as an anti-Semitic. So, I am confused, which is worse for her, racism, anti-Semitism, or now is it sexism that she is now using to gain sympathy for herself and her campaign?

There has been case after case of her hubby sexually accosting women throughout their careers, all the way through to Monica Lewinsky and Hillary has aided, abetted and directed the counter reactions to any charges and allegations. How does any Feminist argue her membership as a feminist at the expense of every woman that he abused? Defending her only diminishes true feminists everywhere!

Furthermore, she and Bill are in the 100 Millionaire Club and you folks feel sorry for her?! How does she dare take the money from a child who sold his bike to donate to her campaign? Wow.

For the record, I started out supporting Kucinich, then Richardson, then Edwards and now Obama

[Paul Maco]

It comes down to this ......the liberals are trying to take over our party. We moderate dems won't alllow it. The country is too moderate now... the sixties are over folks most of the country is in the middle now. Obama represents the extreme left. McCain being more moderate as a republican candidate will attract all the Reagan Dems back to the fold once again. Wake up Dems! Look at the primary results. Clinton won all the swing states...Obama , all the small and caucus and what are traditional republican states in the general election He is behind in the polls in all the southern states also. Whether you like her or not. She is the better candidate to go up against McCain. God help us! What should have been a slam dunk for the Dems could be more $ waisted and lives lost in Iraq for who knows how long. (Also, did we forget Bill Clinton's watch produced the best economy in our history?)

[Bob]

Why on earth does Obama earn the uncommitted votes? is his name 'uncommitted"?

Good point. No doubt they were really casting a vote for Bo Schembechler who they really wanted to see as our President.

I agree whole heartedly. How egotistical is Obama to think that anyone would drive to their polling station and vote for someone who wasn't even on the ballot.

[Ken]

The Ickes thing will have some bad consequences for Hillary. Regardless of the merits of his arguments, many on the rules committee, and on the credentials committee, and the superdelegates, are people who are running for office this year. They were already worried that Hillary can't help them with fundraising... she's in debt whereas Obama is rolling in cash... but now it's gotten to not only where Clinton is unable to help them, but things like the Ickes outburst, which was so vitriolic it could have been a scripted GOP commercial, will actively hurt them. Without addressing whether or not Hillary can win, the Ickes thing stirred up memories of a certain other Clinton, who though he could win for himself, left the rest of the party in tatters. Ultimately, the superdelegates are going to look out for themselves by voting for the candidate that can raise them money, and isn't out there giving the GOP fodder while simultaneously lavishing McCain with undeserved praise.

[ed in fort lauderdale]

I would like to know if HRC or any of her supporters know what math is... or have ever heard of laws .... every day if things do not go her way its a different way of adding the votesor she simply changes the rules on her own...
DO YOU HRC SUPPORTERS HAVE AMNESIA >>SHE AGREED THAT VOTES WOULD NOT COUNT IN NOVEMBER ...so explain to me how anything she says now has any merit except to WIN to place the her at the cost of all democrats into office..
Man talk about another 4 years of bush .. if she steals thenominatiopn...could u imagine her ever listening to congress , the constitution or the supreme court? anything that does not go her way she spins .. or pouts about.. thats just the person i want answering the phone at 3am... we will be in a nuke war in 1 month

[farnk]

The writer of this article thinks they are cute, with its subtle anti Hillary between the line comments. But this whole mess is very good for the country, the racial mess we have been afraid to discuss is now in the open, and will even be more in the open when Obama loses in a landslide.

[Matt]

Allowing a flawed and unfair primary process to be validated according to Clinton would have violated the bedrock principles of our democracy. YES, count, consider and recognize all the votes that were and would have been casted in a sanctioned and fair process. In a true democracy, the process to cast a vote weighs more than the vote itself. The DNC did the right thing. Clinton defectors to the GOP reserve the right to stupidity and self hatred.

[Genevieve01]

Dave T- Please keep your facts straight and stay informed as to what is presently going on before you submit such long posts.
For clarification purposes:
If you want to discuss "race", please explain how your candidate (Sen. Obama), was a a contributing member to a church which has done nothing put publicly degrade and trash non AA's races and the congregation stands up and cheers this practice. This is not guilt by association nor just a believe of one Rev. Wright, this is a practice which is continually followed in that church.
As to lobbyists - Most campaigns only receive 1% of their funds from lobbyists. What you need to do is research the millions which Sen. Obama has received in the form of campaign funds from "special interest groups", (healthcare, etc.). These are the same groups which will expect something in return when he becomes Pres. So he is not using the term lobbyist and they are not affiliated with Wash. but he is maneuvering it from another angle, all to the same outcome, he will owe someone at the end.
The War - the two Senators, Clinton and McCain voted to give Pres. Bush the power to enact war based on misinformation which indicated Saddam Hussein did have WMDs and he was willing to use it. All of that information came to light in 2004. When Sen. Obama was asked how he would have voted had "he been in the U.S. senate at the time", he replied, " I don't know". From the time he has been in the senate he has gone along with all the rest to fund the war without pushing for a time withdrawal of our troops.
Presently, the war in Iraq is working, (even tho most of us never wanted to see us go to war), and the region is stabilizing. This has all been in the news for weeks now.
Under Sen. Obama, the troops will not be coming home but redeployed to Afghanistan and into northwest Pakistan in search of Bin Laden.
The 100 years war is a misquote, which has been posted repeatedly by the press. You should learn the difference between "being at war" and "having security troops stationed in the region", just like we had after WWII and in South Korea.
And I will finally add, intelligence is not a sign of great wisdom. That you gain by observation and understanding how all that surrounds you, interacts with everything else. Please spend a little time googling or researching points I have shown to disagree with you. Thanks.

[Gono Ganyaz]

In shona we say... " Clinton amama, mboko yomunhu" meaning, Clinton has mersed up her backside. See Bill was enough, we loved him! that doesnt not mean we also love her to lead the FREE world. Amama! Duzvi!

[bfg]

The saddest thing about this whole process is that it has split the party so much. I remember the beginning of this primary...It was so exciting to have two strong candidates from two underrepresented groups in American politics, women and African-Americans. This has now just turned into just another election for me. I see how acrimonious things have gotten on both sides and I see why the Republicans win so many elections.

They are willing to unite behind their candidate, even if they are not 100% happy. Unfortunately, the Dems seem unable to do this...The rules were the rules far before this race started and Clinton was aware of them. She wasn't disputing Michigan and Florida losing their votes until she needed them.

I agree that it was idiotic to strip the votes from two key states but there has to be some rule structure in place to ensure that all the states aren't shifting their primaries around to be "first" and get the attention that comes with an early primary.

McCain is going to be a tough opponent for either Democratic candidate. He is a likable guy and will draw independents and some of the more conservative Democrats. If the party is split going into the general election the Dems lose again and we are treated to another 8 years of Republican administration.

If the Dems can't come together in this election to beat McCain, a historic election that many expected they would win because of the poor handling of, well everything, by the Bush administration they certainly will not beat an incumbent McCain in 4 years.

[ggordon]

Hillary supported the decision to exclude Florida and Michigan for the sake of Party unity back when she was sure of being nominated. Now she flip-flops on her decision and breaks Party unity for the sake of her vanity. She is proving that she cannot handle being a President because she is completely illogical.

[bruce]

This week Howard Dean was quoted: "This is a big – bigger issue than Florida and Michigan". Apparently the DNC Chairman and his advisers didn't see the signs. This is also a big bigger problem for Barack Obama. For presnting himself as the inevitable nominee, nomination will be his single greatest acheiveiment if this issue isn't put to rest, properly. Don't hold your breath, as it is a Big Bigger problem, and the democratic party has suffered a greater setback than Dr. Dean and his group could imagine, let alone understand.

[Mark]

All you Clinton loyalists are outrageous sourpusses. It is preposterous to throw your hands up in the air and proclaim that the presidency will go to McCain as a result of the RBC's ruling -- a claim that in turn suggests that as a Clinton supporter, you will either refrain from voting or cast a vote in November for the Republican nod. Everyone needs to take a step back and remind themselves of the very minute policy differences that actually separate Obama and Clinton and the grave differences that separate Obama and McCain. I'm inclined to think that any remaining diehard Clinton supporters are and have been so set in their ways regarding a Clinton candidacy -- the first female president -- that they have never adequately given Obama an opportunity to win them over. Once the contest is boiled down to Obama vs. McCain -- as it WILL be -- Clinton supporters must listen to Obama instead of simply holding a grudge he never deserved. Anything less would be a disservice to your fellow democrats.

[Hillary Fan]

If Hillary doesn't get the nomination I'll do everything I can to make sure Obama doesn't win. I can't believe so many true AMERICANS listen to all his fancy talk about hope and fixing things. He is like a snake oil salesman. It is clear that Hillary is so much stronger and deserves to be the democratic nominee. And it is an outrage that we act like a third world country and not count EVERY vote! Michigan and Florida voted for Clinton, it's Obama's own fault he took his name off of the ballot, why punish people in Michigan. If Hillary doesn't get it, then McCain 08!