Harold Ickes' parting shot suggests more Democratic turmoil

Maybe it will prove an idle threat.

But as the Democratic rules committee ended its lengthy meeting today in Washington today with a decision on the Michigan primary that left Hillary Clinton's campaign irate, the words from one of her chief strategists have to haunt party leaders striving for elusive unity.

"Mrs. Clinton has instructed me to reserve her rights to take this to the credentials committee," Harold Ickes said.

The rules panel, which Ickes serves on, achieved its goal of resolving one of the party's two disputed primaries -- the Florida contest -- in a way that Ickes and other Clinton loyalists indicated they could live with. And combined with the more contentious action on the Michigan vote, the result was to put Barack Obama on the cusp of securing the number of convention delegates needed to soon declare himself the presidential nominee-in-waiting.

But Ickes' admonition on Michigan means that the Clinton camp has not signed off on the new "magic" number: 2,118 delegates. And that means any claim by Obama to be the presumptive nominee will carry an asterisk -- perhaps all the way to the late-August convention in Denver.

Indeed, along with Ickes' words, the chants of "Denver, Denver" by disgruntled Clinton supporters as the rules committee gathering broke up must be uneasily echoing in the ears of other Democrats.

-- Don Frederick

Photo credit: Associated Press

Comments

[JimBo]

Is Hillary Clinton really the one that women want to represent them as "The First Female President"?

[gaypastor]

Congratulations to the people of Florida and Michigan who also took time out of their busy lives to pull a level in our democracy. You are now second class citizens of the United States! May God help our party!

[BJ]

When the DNC halves Florida's votes, they exalt that it was made possible because of "Obama's concession". When they steal delegates from Hillary to award to Obama, they call it "fairness".

Hillary can't win! What's the point? Why didn't they just hand him the nomination right then and there? Their motivations were very transparent, the Democratic Party decided a long time ago that Obama was going to be the nominee. No wonder they stood by and allowed the media/press and Obama surrogates to "have their way" with Hillary.

What the Democratic Party did NOT count on is, the loyalty and rage that Hillary supporters have for having this nomination stolen from her.

Unfortunately, you may as well close the book on Obama's presidency. It is sealed... a done deal... they have just handed the presidency to John McCain!

This will actually be good for the country because there will be a "check and balance" between the Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches of the government.

[Burton Brashaw]

After listening to that foul mouthed Ickes, there is no way I could still be for Clinton.

[Bret C]

I thought the words, "We should get all the Delegates from Michigan" were the most outragious...

[Bob]

Hillary reserves the right to appeal and carry the drama all the way to Denver!

Part of me wants her to continue making a fool of herself; the other part wants her to just go away!

Hillary, the Queen of Spin and a Legend in Her Own Mind!

http://klintons.com

[roly luis]

The sorrow in my heart has never been this deep, I cried for the death of democracy. The committee choose to take the easy path on a trying journey, shirking the responsibility to do right. Half votes belong to second class citizens somewhere. I felt shred to smithereens because the diminished dignity of anyone is a subtraction from my own.
How can the soul be consoled, the gnawing anguish be extinguished?
A glimmer of an ember can grow to fire righteousness: such start crumbled walls in Jericho and in Berlin, toppled Marcos and Iraqi regimes, dismantled slavery and royal privileges. The DNC may yet to pronounce, this time in unanimous verdict, the full and inclusive decision.
This half-carrot half-stick approach has no name. "Fair Compromise" remains a menacing misnomer, and the goal to punish is a recoil, the boomerang of unforeseen destructive force.

[Chris]

I voted for Bill Clinton twice, and Hillary Clinton for Senate. Now it seems that the Clintons care about their own power more than the good of this country and the Democratic Party.

I have decided that I will actively campaign for a Democratic primary opponent against Hillary Clinton her next run for NY Senate (which unfortunately is not until something like 2013). I suggest that anyone else who is disgusted with her tactics in this Democratic primary, and who is a NY State resident, do the same. If you're not a resident of NY State, help raise money for her next Senate Democratic primary opponent.

[FC]

The Clinton camp won't be happy until the White House is lost to John McCain.

[Dan Sample]

O.K> Superdelegates...pile on with South Dakota and Montana....and show Ickes and his henchmates the democratic party is finished with their kind....

[Hero]

The Stupor Delegates have to wake up on June 3 and tell Hillary thanks, but no thanks.

A 'warmup fight' might be good for a boxer, but in Presidential politics, a 'warmup fight' burns $millions in donations, and Obama supporters are not happy about wasting their hard earned money swatting away an annoying Hillary campaign. She is wasting the Party's money and time.

Go away.

[Derek]

Both Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama agreed to the party’s decision to penalize Florida and Michigan by disallowing their delegates, but because she now needs the votes, the situation is deemed unfair byher suppoters. Clinton is a political predator that does not play fair when the rules do not favor her. Now she wants to sabotage the campaign of Obama because she cannot manipulate the party to screw over Obama. What a class act -- NOT!!

[TomasW]

I believe Senator Clinton will concede the nomination by the end of this week and will join Senator Obama in defeating John McCain in November. Of course, her concession will be helped along by a migration of super delegates to Obama as well as the promise of a major role in health care reform in the new administration. Mr. Ickes, I would want you on my team---only guy to tell it like it is even if he is wrong. No bs from Harold!

[wanda]

`whine and cry, stomp your feet maybe the whole country will just fall in line

[willie in Kansas]

I'm surprised by the generosity of the DNC. It is the GOP in Florida with their antics again. They seem to set up every trap and obstacle to mantain their de facto dictatorship on Florida. Why should the rest of the Nation be held hostage to Florida? Other 55 constest were conducted by rules established by the DNC. The fact the GOP in Florida decided that the interest of their party should trump the health of the best interest of the nation should be an outrage. It makes you so mad, you just want to rant. Florida and Michigan knowingly decided the rest of the country is not as important as they are. This is reminicent of the Confederacy. How much more hurt can the GOP inflict on the people of this nation. Kansas, IOWA, and NH shouldn't have to bow to the narcissistic and selfishness of these two states, nor their toddler like self proclaimed entitlement rights. The DNC should have just let the issue die off. The states new the rules: they made their bed and they should sleep on them. Their local legislatures are responsible for the situation they find themselves in. Florida hasn't learned anything. They did it in 2000, GW is President. It serves them right to have the mortgage crisis, the war, and the high gas prices. Why should we care about people who don't care about the rest of us? They should have never been seated and their votes shouldn't count. No matter what Hillary says.

[Eugene]

It's over when your own people excepting one abstention vote to approve the Florida compromise, and the Michigan settlement generously gives Clinton delegates she wouldn't get out of that state now if the the vote were held again. Politics in democracies pracitces the art of compromise. If you don't get that, take up dictatorship.

[Reschev]

The greedy Hillary Clinton and her democrat supporters are handing the presidency to McCain on a silver platter. Like the drunken and self centered captain of the Titanic, she would prefer no survivors and taking the Democrat party to the bottom with her, than to permit Obama to win the presidency. That's the true evilness and greed of the Clintons, and its far past time for the Hispanic and Negro people to learn that the Clinton don't actually give a damn about them. They have played the race card constantly.

[Renatta McPhee]

I was a former Clintonista, but am now urging her to cede and unify the party--this election is too important for games!

[Tom]

This is horrible. We as Democrats are divided. President John McCain. No matter who gets the nod, elements of one side are going to be very angry.

[Richard P. McDonough]

Ickes is doing the good soldier's job for a lousy commander. "What rules," she said.

On the other hand, he thought he might be able to run things the old way, by bulldozing and herding the frightened sheep into Hillary's camp.

Time has come for that old Tammany power mentality to go away and remake the party as one that not only registers the young, but keeps them engaged and active for a democratic victory in November.

[vote4thebest]

I just made a big contribution to Clinton's campaign because this is an outrage. The very same party who decried the supreme court for stealing the people's vote now is doing the same thing to Clinton and Florida and Michigan voters.

Why on earth does Obama earn the uncommitted votes? is his name 'uncommitted"?

It is time to either take this to the convention or Hillary should run as an independent. This party is no longer the true democratic party; it is a party of 48 states running by oppressors of people's voice.

A whilte house with McCain is definitely a safer choice than with the anti-white and unethical Obama.

[politicsisdirty]

Why not just hand the nomination to Sen Obama. That is what the DNC leadership want all along.

Then let us see what happens next...........

[Jason]

Aren't the Democrats doing exactly what the Republicans did? Michigan and Florida get half representation at their convention as well.
What's the big deal. The state broke the rules.

[Peter Zaduk]

50%? 5/8 ths somehow seems more appropriate.

[dem in chicago]

Oh please. 1. Clinton lost the nomination fair and square. 2. Clinton voters will vote for Obama in the end. 3. Obama will be president.

[Tom from Iowa]

If Hillary was leading this drama wouldn't be going on. But she isn't so everyone has been unfair towards the Clintons. Its the same old story they are being picked on.
Now its the media who has been unfair, sooner or later the right wing has to rear its ugly head. It makes no difference that she is a liar, he is a finger pointing liar, that somehow they feel everyone is picking on them. The poor Clintons I wish there would be a bolt of lightning out of the sky and hit both of them, then I might believe someone was picking on them.

[alee21]

My choice for President:
1. Hillary Clinton
2. John McCain

The DNC has proven itself once again to be run by incompetent bureaucrats – so in love with rules and self-righteousness that they will lose the general election, again!.

Never will I vote for Obama who has shown himself to be a gutter politician from Chicago, without core values, a credential-less liar, with unsavory associations with Wright/Pfleger, Rezko/Auchi and Ayers/Dohrn.

On top of everything else, he is a joke:
- 57 or was that 58 states?
- seeing dead people
- a mythical uncle liberating a mythical camp in Germany
- Arabic translators in Afghanistan
- born before parents met at a MLK rally
- bitter, entitled, arugula munching, elitist

...Must have missed something, there were so many gems.

[Derek]

Both Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama agreed to the party’s decision to penalize Florida and Michigan by disallowing their delegates, but because she now needs the votes, the situation is deemed unfair. Clinton is a political predator that does not play fair when the rules do not favor her. Now she wants to sabotage the campaign of Obama because she cannot manipulate the party to screw over Obama. What a class act -- NOT!!

[Mari]

I can't believe how the DNC, Obama's supporters and now several NY state citizens are willing to throw one of its own under the bus. You are the reason that many of us are leaving the Democratic party. I am ashamed that you would forget what democracy is all about.

[former CA resident]

How is it possible that I find myself agreeing with Howard Ickes? That's enough to send shivers down your spine. He asks a fair quesiton, though. Hill won 73 delegates in the MI primary and "uncommitted" won 55. Now, in its infinite wisdom the Lords of the Rules, er the Democratic National Party Rules Committee arbitrarily "rules" that she only gets 69 of those and that the rest go to the O-man (that is four more than "uncommitted" got. One might fairly ask, why do they bother to have elections at all - just make up the results the way you want them to come out. I'm not arguing about the handing out of the uncommitted votes to O (although you might wonder about that a bit), but I am wondering why he gets 4 of Hill's? This is not democracy, but I guess it is "Democratcy" 2008-style.

[Andrew Austin]

"Maybe it will prove an idle threat." I hope not.

[edgarMI]

My gut instinct is that while all these AARP-eligible women are in pain and really believe that this committee should have and were going to allot Hillary all of the delegates from both FLA and MI, they also realize that voting republican (or sitting it out in Nov) will mean 2 more reactionary Supreme Crt appointments. Roe v. Wade and privacy will be gone for a couple of generations.

That's incentive enough to retain enough of this demographic to win in a democratic year.

[mozella]

What part of "uncommitted" refers to Obama?
Last week, it was "assassination."
I guess tomorrow he gets the copywrite on "Messiah."
That's only fitting, it'll be Sunday and he doesn't have to take a back seat to a mere church any more.

[puzzled]

puzzled why they chose one-half votes; why didn't they use "three-fifths" - that has some historical precedent and it is almost as fair

[Robert P Kane Sr]

It's not my party after 42 years.
The left wingers can have it.
Hillary run as an independent & you will be the President of the middle majority of America.
Stay a Democrat & McCain wins.
Obama's are dreaming.
McCain will get 300 electoral votes.
His total lack of experience will be exposed by
the Republicans. Wright, Ayers & how many more.
Who knows, but we will find out.
Eloquent public speaking is no replacment for experience.

[dipthought]

>>Why on earth does Obama earn the uncommitted votes? is his name 'uncommitted"?

Why does Clinton earn any delegates? Was that a primary?

[former CA resident]

to Willie in KS: You are right that the FL legislature and governor who passed and signed the FL primary timing law are Republican; however let's be completely honest here: the MI legislature and governor who passed and signed the MI primary timing law are Democrat. It seems to me that suggestions that one side or the other bear the blame for having fomented all of tthis mess is neiter fair nor accurate.

[HG]

To the Ms. Clinton critics and Saint Obama loyalists:

1. There is no perfect human who will ever occupy the White House let alone walk on earth; 2. Admit it, you're all really Republicans. Who else has ever demonstrated such unreasonable hatred (as expressed in the comments here) towards the Clintons, except the Republicans.

Whoever claims that Ms. Clinton is the only politician seeking power is deluded. Power is the psychological backdrop of politics and Obama, and his people, are no saints when it comes to their familiarity with it.

Also, to claim that something Ms.Clinton has done has now turned you off to her is disingenuous. You never liked her (Rush) and you'll use the slightest reason to criticize her.

These two ideas (Ms. Clinton is abnormally power hungry and she's finally broken the poor camel's back) are another way of saying: Woman. You have no place here!

She doesn't have to be a saint. She doesn't need to make you comfortable (or remind you of your mommy). She only needs to be president and Ms. Clinton has the qualifications for that.

I cheer Ms. Clinton for her courage and audaciousness for attempting the impossible: bringing equality for women in these United States.

[MassIndependent]

I'm an Obama supporter, and I think he totally blew it on this Michigan compromise. By arriving at this seemingly arbitrary 69-59 split, the rules committee has given Clinton just the window she needs to continue crying foul as long as she cares to, and if Harold Ickes's statement is any indication, it may be all summer.

If they instead awarded Clinton the 73 delegates her vote total would have given her and Obama the 55 uncommitted, they could have essentially neutralized this. All for the whopping cost of 2 delegate votes (after giving half votes). I know the Clinton side argued that those 55 delegates really should go to "uncommitted," but I can't imagine even they (with the possible exception of Lanny Davis) would try making the case that 240,000 people turned out for a primary they were told wouldn't count just to let the world know they really had no opinion.

With a 73-55 (divided by two) split, you eliminate (or at least show to be patently absurd) any threats of going to the credentials committee, you get to appear gracious and above petty political squabbling, and you still have an insurmountable 170+ delegate lead. By agreeing instead to this other number, you enable continued claims of disenfranchisement, further embitter Clinton's supporters, and invite three more months of squabbling.

Anyway, this train wreck of a nominating process just reminds me of why, despite never having voted Republican in my life, I refuse to register as a Democrat. It's just embarrassing.

[Matt]

You Clinton supporters are pathetic, you should just leave the party. Florida and Michigan should have had NO delegates. Their election was a sham, everyone knew that the votes didnt count. Let's hear about the voters who stayed home on election day thinking the vote didnt count only to find out it had. Are their voices being heard? Of course not. But Hillary clinton deserves the presidency because she sucked off bill for so long. She deserves it because she was handed a new york senatorship due to her name. She deserves it because black men are scary! Shame on you.

[Lena]

Doesn't Clinton get it? People want her to just go away and she keeps burying the Democratic Party with all this BS. What else is there for her to grasp? She is looking for a lifeboat.

I also am from NY and originally was for her but I would never vote for her again and hope to do alot to keep her out of New York (which she was a carpetbagger anyway) I am female and can't stand how she is representing women....I don't believe that ALL women are for her. Good Bye Clinton's now go out and get real jobs.

[Ann]

Icky Ickes clearly showed he will do anything to get Clinton elected. He is not interested in democracy or in fair elections, or for that matter, the Democrats. He is probably a Republican working hard to get Clinton the nomination, because if she is the nominee, she WILL lose to McCain.. Many of my Republican friends who are planning to vote for Obama will not vote for Hilary.

[Patricia]

As soon as Hillary found herslf watching her prize slipping away more and more each day, she began screaming "Foul" and only started to try to drum up sympathy and a pity party when she saw herself losing. Hillary's supporters were not raging until she started to spew rhetoric that she was being cheated out of the nominee due to the fact that Florida and Michigan voters were being disenfranchised. Oh, believe me Hillary screamed out loud and cried and threw a hissy fit and convinced her witless supporters that she had been stripped of her votes and delegates. Hillary will have us believe that her supporters are angry and want to see justice done. The majority of her supprters did not even know that they were supposed to be insulted until Hillary sent out e-mails, flyers, advertisements, went on television shows and told everyone in America that she had beeen wronged in the political arena. She begged her supporters to protest the DNC. She started this fiasco and her ssupporters took the ball and ran with it. Hillary, in fact, is the one that will hand the presidential victory to McBush. She knows that she is upsetting the DNC by prolonging the nomination process by appealing. She is just buying time in the hopes that she and her cohorts can find some weapom to hold Obama back. It is obvious that this all just a amoke screen to cover up her embarrassment and humiliation and ineptness. If she can't be the nominee then she will do everything in her power to put obstacles in Obama's path to keep him from victory, to save "Clinton Face". We all see that this is very,very personal to her and this is not about the people but about her own selfish pride and bruised ego. I will never vote for this scandalous vindictive woman into office. Today, for the very first time, I am ashamed to be a woman, but the bright spot is that she does not represent me in any way, form or fashion. Hillary may go down in history, but her grand children and great-grand children will hope know one ever reads how she made history. Hillary, America is watching!

[puzzled]

puzzled how anyone could think that Hill is bringing equality for the women of the country; I never understand how folks can place such faith in people who have done little or nothing to earn their position; why don't you say similar things about women who have earned their responsible position; there are many on both sides of the aisle who are or have been real role models for achievement: how about people like Condi Rice or hte late Barbara Jordan (both of whom were smarter than any of us - male or female - writing on this thread)

[Reynaldo Macias]

How do people who support Senator Clinton explain her change of position on Michigan and Florida? When she needed to win in New Hampshire and Iowa, she said that "Michigan doesn't matter". She also agreed (and signed) with the DNC's decision to not seat all the delegates from Florida and Michigan. Along with Senator Obama, Governor Richardson, and Senator Edwards. When she was the frontrunner for the nomination, she agreed with the Democratic Party about which primaries (and voters and votes and delegates) should go first, and be counted, etc. Now that she is not the frontrunner, she is campaigning after the fact, and her supporters are agreeing. Where was their anger and outrage about Florida and Michigan in January, when she didn't need the delegates?

We are not electing History or Herstory, for that matter. We are electing the President of the United States. If you agree with Senator Clinton's healthcare ideas, position on Iraq, and other policy issues, then how can you be arguing that you will be voting against Senator Obama in the fall by staying home or voting for Senator McCain?

I go back to my original question . . . How do people who support Senator Clinton explain her change of position on Michigan and Florida? Threatening to "take it all the way to Denver" is like my 8-year old pouting because he didn't get his way. It's not rationale, it doesn't follow the rules that he agreed to, but it feels good to him. Please don't sink the party, and help Senator McCain get elected because the person you wanted to get the nomination didn't . . . then we all lose. Period.

[bluegirl]

I got the impression that both FL and MI were pretty happy with what they got, all things considered. They got a fair deal. Can you imagine what the front-loading would be like in 2012 if they had faced no consequences this year?

It was really only that psycho Ickes that lost his mind. Classic Clinton politics: when you're down, lie, cheat ,and steal. When someone calls you on it, accuse them of lying, cheating, and stealing. It's worked for Bill for years.

The last card is on the table. There is no ace in the hole for Hillary anymore. It's over...now she needs to get about unifying the party and supporting Obama like she promised. Enough is enough.

I just worry that she would rather see McCain win than to have to say President Obama.

[margie]

You Obama people surely don't believe that he will be elected President! Laugh if you will, but after next weeks newest realeases about him and Michelle, he probably won't even be the nominee! Then we'll see who's laughing at whom.

[K Dub]

To the writer "former CA resident":

I am a Michigan Democrat. I did not vote in the Michigan primary, as I was told it would not count! In fact, I never really decided who I supported the most; back then, we Democrats actually had a number of good choices...

Now, I am told that Ms. Clinton is being cheated, because she "won" an election which she herself said was meaningless (back before she needed the delegates). Meanwhile, Mr. Obama, who followed the DNC's request, removed his name from the ballot, and agreed not the campaign in Michigan, has become, in the eyes of the Clinton supporters, somehow worse than John McCain. Truly sad.

I might have voted for Hillary Clinton back then. I certainly will never do so in the future. Her revolting lack of ethics and utter disregard for anything besides her own power have made it clear to me that she has no place being President. I look forward to voting a woman into the highest office in out great land, but it will be one I respect, and I have lost all respect for HRC.

[Marco]

It's funny - when Al Gore was challenging things ppl mocked him. However, now they all miss him and want him back.

I mean what the hell is half a vote? Are you half a citizen? Are you half as important as other americans?

[Former Dem in Maryland]

How does the DNC justify giving Barack Obama any delegates from Michigan?? Obama decided to take his name off the ballot and not ONE vote was cast for him during the Michigan primary.

Middle and lower class whites are not Obama's coalition. He could care less or understand them (clings to religion and guns). I left the party ten years ago, but my parents live in Pennsylvania and they voted for Clinton in the primary. However,they will not vote for Obama in November. They don't trust him or the afro-centric and anti-white views of his church, his wife and his minister.

The last GOP candidate my parents voted for was Ike and they plan on voting for McCain.

The Dems have nominated another ultra liberal whom the media and the elites love. Remember Dukakis, Gore, Kerry....

He won't win, but Hillary would.