Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, many others hold forth on the ABC debate

ABC anchorman Charles Gibson, in previewing the campaign story on the network's evening news show tonight, cooly and impassively (or was there a trace of a smile?) noted that in the aftermath of Wednesday's debate between the Democratic presidential contenders, "the questions themselves drew criticism."

That, of course, was putting it mildly.

As this post in our Showtracker blog details, debate has raged among mainstream media commentators and in the blogosphere over the appropriateness of many of the queries posed by Gibson and George Stephanopoulos -- especially the latter's inquiries about Barack Obama's association with a college professor in his hometown of Chicago who once was a notorious, bomb-planting radical.

To read more about how ABC covered itself on its evening news program -- the top-rated one among the big three -- see here. What caught our interest was not only Obama's bid to turn the tenor of the debate to his advantage (why not, though traditionally, such efforts fall short), but his campaign's effort to raise money off it. Also intriguing was the reaction of an old pro -- a certain former president with a particular interest in this year's race -- to the complaints about the debate that emanated from the Obama camp.

The money quote from Obama today, as he campaigned in North Carolina, concerned ...

the debate's initial focus on a variety of controversies -- some, such as incendiary words from his former preacher, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, had been well-hashed-over; others, most notably the matter of radical William Ayers, had not.

"It took us 45 minutes before we even started talking about a single issue that matters to the American people," Obama said to an audience that clearly agreed with him.

But, as MSNBC political director Chuck Todd pointed out on his network today, a candidate doesn't usually "talk about the format of a debate if you won the debate."

Obama's campaign manager, David Plouffe, sent an e-mail to supporters categorizing the forum as providing "more gotcha politics and distractions than questions about the pressing issues affecting our country."

Marching in lockstep with his boss, he added: "In fact, it took more than 45 minutes before Barack was asked about the economy, healthcare, or foreign policy."

And then there was the inevitable barb tossed at their rival, Hillary Clinton.

"Regrettably," Plouffe wrote, she "seemed all too comfortable with that type of debate. She's running a 100% negative campaign in Pennsylvania, taking every opportunity to make personal and discredited attacks against" Obama. (He struck a similar theme in his North Carolina remarks, saying Clinton used the debate to "twist the knife.")

The payoff to Plouffe's e-mail was a request for those who agreed with him to pay up -- in the form of a $25 campaign contribution (larger amounts, we imagine, will not be returned).

Taking all this in, while campaigning in Pennsylvania, was Bill Clinton, who couldn't help but puff up his chest and pridefully say that he didn't recollect his wife "whining" when she was taking an array of shots.

Now, back in the fall, we seem to recall some quibbles from her camp about the "politics of piling on" (and how she was this "one strong women" competing against a bunch of guys).

Be that as it may, the ex-president cut to the bottom line of politics as he learned it in his comments today: "But you know, this is a contact sport. If you don't want to play, keep your uniform off."

-- Don Frederick

Photo credit: Associated Press

Comments

[allison]

I hope Obama stop crying wolf, and stand up like a man. The last 15 months, Hillary has been standing up like a 'man' so it is about time for Obama to do the same.

Stop the excuses. Please move on! Race is should NOT have been an issue and the debate should NOT have been an issue!

[Lynn]

We will see where it goes from here. Talking about issues, which may or may never get solved is Obama's bread and butter, but he was very comfortable to have Clinton brushed away fro trivial things. He did get a taste and it will be interesting when he debates John McCain what will happen.

[JTS]

The folks at ABC have gone cowardly. They dont' exercise their own judgement in selecting issues for discussion. Instead they resort to the circular reasoning that if others believe an issue is important (regardless of who those "others" are) then they must indeed be important.

Is it not the job of journalists to exercise their own judgement and discretion? In this, ABC has failed.

The president of ABC said that their polls indicated that the flag-pin issue, among others, was relevant to voters. Well, if public opinion is the arbiter of right and wrong, then public opinion has clearly indicted, tried, and convicted ABC news to be incompetent and unbalanced.

-JTS

[joy]

Interesting someone here commented race should not be an issue, yet in the same comment this person made gender an issue.

Ultimately, the debate SHOULD have been about real issues, like the war, health care, and the economy. Instead, it was an E-entertainment news style debate. And sadly, HIllary seemed right at home in that type of meaningless, tabloid enviornment.

[KS2 Problema]

What debate? It was like being stuck in line at the supermarket with a bunch of addle-brained tabloids staring back at you. Even ABC's own Jack Tapper seemed to think it was a particularly shabby affair in his blog. Also -- let's be blunt -- there was as little attempt at balance in the moderation as there was an attempt at substance.

[Doc]

It seems that the people complaining are Obama supporters that wanted vanila flavored questions. Since when do candidates get to form the questions? The questions asked are relevant and are being raised by people from all over the country. I am a bit tired of Obama complaining about his critics. He is running for President of the country. Does he think he has a "right to passage" without any scrutiny of who he is and what does he really believe? This is one time I agree with Bill Clinton. If you can't take the heat, then shut the *** up!

[Jim]

One debate out of 21 where he gets the sticky end and he is whining like a little baby. I have been saying all along, he will do well if there is something to read. If he is in the open forum and is in the unfriendly environment, he will stutter and babble like an idiot. Well he showed that yesterday and I am sure his backers, namely blacks don't like the way he was treated. It is white media conspiracy or Hillary's friend's doing. He didn't mind when Richardson back stabbed Hillary and endorsed him. Why cry about George Stephanopoulos' tie to Clinton. I still say he needs to mature a little more before he can present himself to be our president.

[joanne]

all i want to say is That I'm tired of having someone in the whitehouse not caring whT THE PEOPLE WANT IN THIS Cusa . all i know is we don't need another clinton in the whitehoise. and we don't need a old man , so where does that put me , you guess it He my MAN come NOV 2

[Jean]

How elitist is it to think that The American People are all wrapped up in whether a candidate wears a flag lapel pin. Beltway condescension at its worst.

[Mike Roberts]

This would be like the patriots complaining that the Giants were trying to win the game in the last few minutes. That's just one sports analogy from this uneducated small town,gun toting, religious zealot, that is just fed up with illegal immigration. Hey Barack, you sound bitter. maybe you can turn to a pacifier!!!! you little girl.

[Jim Ballinger]

ABC proves to be "ANYTHING BUT COMPETENT"....That is, unless they, (ABC) wanted the debate to be about NOTHING that matters! In that frightening case, they succeeded with mastery!

[Jon S]

It is funny how people set aside their integrity to spread nonsense about the candidate they don't like. Politicians are expected to use such tactics, but when supporters and the press start following suit it just becomes ridiculous.

This is completely stupid, I am going to go watch Lost.

[NoEyesWitness]

For a long time I did not watch the ABC anymore due to their no journalism. Yesterday debate confirmed my decision. I will not watch them until those Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos are not working for ABC. George is worse than Governor of New Mexico, he at least stands for what he believes, and ignored when got names called. But George, perhaps he hopes will be landed a job with Clinton's office. Sorry George look back what have you done under Mr. Clinton? Nothing.

[eileen]

Give it a rest. These candidates barely have daylight between them with regard to the issues. This nomination will be decided on character issues, and Obama's campaign has had no problem pointing out Clinton's.

Obama should stop whining. It looks wimpy, and is displaying his weaknesses for the general, it he makes it that far.

[Gina]

I am utterly depressed and bitter. The flag pin and how much does he love the Flag? That is urgency. I just give up!

I have an 8 year old child who has a bright future!!!
As of right now living in his country: that has the economy of a third world fully in debt and printing paper money with no backing, while the middle class disappears and joins the Soup kitchen if there is any left by Conservative compassion; planet in peril but who cares ; a country in 2 wars -- soon dragged to world war111 courtesy of Iran and Israel(the two most unfavorable countries last month BBC Poll) but we must defend Israel at all cost because of AIPAC and according to the Fundamentalist such as the Pastor Hagee who McCain begged for his support we should encourage World War 3 -- -- that is good because Doomsday will arrive and we all want rapture and Israel is returned to the Jews.

Oh my can we ask about the relationship of Obama with Darth Vader that is so urgent.

[bill]

hussein is a liar. brilliant moderators shed light on shallow and devious nature.

[sweetliberty]

What makes me really ticked is that after 17,000 comments posted, almost entirely negative, the ABC network continues to justify that sham of a debate. I waited all day for the network to at the very least acknowledge that it erred by focusing on irrelevant questioning. But, nothing, not even close. I find this to be even more despicable than the debate itself. The ABC network should be ashamed. The network totally insulted millions of viewers and continues to pride itself in such tabloid journalism. Advertisers listen up carefully. You better get a huge buy discount because no one is going to be watching that network. Unless you just have advertising dollars to burn, I advise you to look elsewhere, because ABC blew it.

[John Quimby]

The fact that Obama is the focus of every political comment in the world today and the fact that everything he says is subject to scrutiny and debate tells me that he already is our national leader.

Nobody else has the power to drive the national political debate in the same authoritative way that he does.

The Public and the Press already know this. We just need a national election to make it official.

[Luke]

Bill's memory must really be going if he doesn't remember his wife complaining about getting questions first and then asking if they were going to give more pillows to Obama a la the SNL skit. At least when Obama objects to the tenor of the debate he doesn't sound whiny or make reference to a comedy show.

[sean o]

Hillary was, indeed, in her element. She sounded downright giddy at points, guffawing at her own sophomoric personal barbs not just at obama, but at Bush, Cheyney and all those Republicans she wishes would just not run this year. She was the wild and crazy Saturday Night Live candidate with an I'm a fighter knife of smear and innuendo dripping from her words. Go girl go.

[PetraK]

I am so tired of tit for tat politics. Of voters being swayed by BS issues.

Honestly< I don't care about rev wright, rev wrong, bj wong, fags, flags, bittergate, geriatric radicals from the 60's and whatnot.

I care that we're in a recession, we're involved in 2 wars that are costing us 250 million dollars a day as well as lives, we are borrowing from China, theres a health mortgage and housing crisis and those are just SOME of the real issues to discuss.

You folks who sit on your butts all day blogging and worrying about flag pins, by all means, go on and keep having fun worrying about non-issues. But for the rest of us who don't have as much time to spare, maybe there can be some real debates, some real discussions about both the state of these United States and what we're going to do to fix things that desperately need attention.

[andy]

The democratic party has clearly been hijacked by the extreme leftwing. For left-leaning independents, this is very frustrating. The extreme righwing nuts of the Republican party took control of the party and they gave us George W. Bush. The democratic party is in danger of repeating the same mistake---not electing the most capable person into the white house. Our country needs Clinton NOW. There is no time for the empty "hope" talks. In Wednesday debate, it was obvious that while Hillary has provided detailed and substantive proposals, Obama spent most of his time describing this country's problems that we already know. He provided little insight on the solutions to these problems. Obama, I am afraid, is quite hollow in terms of his plan to lead this country to a better future. We need to alarm the democratic party that many independent voters could turn to McCain if Obama is nominated. I think this scenario is quite real and it has not been talked about enough in the main stream media. Take a look. http://ivotemccainifobamaisnominated.blogspot.com/ (I vote for McCain if Obama is nominated)

[OBAMA LIES AGAIN]

OBAMA LIES AGAIN AND MAINSTREAM MEDIA LIKE CNN HIDES IT!
VOTERS ARE SICK OF THE MEDIA EXCUSING OBAMA NO MATTER WHO HE OFFENDS!!!!

Sen. Obama referres to himself as 'a constitutional law professor on the campaign trail. TRUTH: He never held any such title! Obama changed website bio to reflect that he was a 'lecturer' rather than 'professor. Chicago Daily Herald

Obama gets 4 Pinocchio’s for 100 Years War-Wondered why the national media won’t call out Obama for his serial distortions on McCain’s Iraq comments, the Globe tried to help Obama rationalize it. Michael Dobbs scolded Obama in today’s Fact Checker

MSNBC-OBAMA: ANOTHER SUPER, EXAGGERATION
Washington Post caught Obama in a lie about the Kennedy family role.
The WashigntonPost Fact Check- Senator Obama CAUGHT LYING about Kennedy Role in Helping His Father Contrary to Obama's claims in speeches Kennedy family did not provide the funding for a September 1959 airlift of 81 Kenyan students to the United States that included Obama's father. According to historical records and interviews with participants, the Kennedys were approached for support for the program a year later, July 1960. family responded with a $100,000 donation, which went to pay for a second airlift in September 1960.

Judicial Watch:
By Klaus Marre-Obama ‘intended to leave no paper trail’ OBAMA REFUSES to cooperate in releasing 8 years of his state senate records. One main reason REZKO!

Politico reports, “During his first run for elected office, Barack Obama played a greater role than he acknowledges in crafting liberal stands on gun control, the death penalty and abortion– positions that appear at odds with the more moderate image he’s projected during his presidential campaign. The evidence comes from an amended version of an Illinois voter group’s detailed questionnaire, filed under his name during his bid for a state Senate. In response to a Politico story, Obama’s answers he never saw questioaire?

NBC- Aswini Anburajan
OBAMA LIES IN PENNSYLVANIA AD
It's unfortunate that Senator Obama is using false advertising to explain why he can be trusted to do something about energy prices. In his ad, Obama says, I'm Barack Obama, and I don't take money from oil companies or lobbyists, and I won't let them block change any more. Obama has been the recipient of more than $220,000 from the oil and gas industry just since as of Feb/08. Two of Obama's campaign bundlers are also CEOs for oil and gas companies, per his campaign Web site? Obama needs to answer to VOTERS about his dealings with one of his largest contributors Exelon, a big nuclear power company that he cut deals behind closed doors protecting them from full disclosure in the nuclear industry. Exxon, Shell, and others are among his biggest donors

Obama in last debate- My writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire ...... as I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns

Obamas record shows he infact did support the war when he got to the senate, voted twice against bringing America's troops back home. He voted for war appropriations giving our money to Halliburton and Blackwater where Texas woman, was gang-raped by her co-workers at a Halliburton/KBR camp in Baghdad, His latest bit of posturing S 433 allows the Bush Administration to suspend any troop withdrawal, if not suspended, keeps the troops in Iraq for a long time to come

Obama said he goofed on votes angered fellow Democrats in the Senate when he voted to strip millions of dollars from a child welfare office on Chicago's West Side. But Obama had a ready explanation: He goofed! Also announced he had fumbled an election-reform vote the day before, on a measure that passed 51 to 6. The next day, he acknowledged voting "present" on a key telecommunications vote. He stood on March 11, 1999, to take back his vote against legislation to end good-behavior credits for certain felons in county jails. "I pressed the wrong button on that," he said. Obama was the lone dissenter on Feb. 24, 2000, against 57 yeas for a ban on human cloning. "I pressed the wrong button by accident," he said. But two of Obama's bumbles came on more-sensitive topics, he backed legislation to permit riverboat casinos to operate even when the boats were dockside. The measure, pushed by the gambling industry and fought by church groups whose support Obama was seeking, passed with two "yeas" to spare -- including Obama's. Moments after its passage he rose to say, explaining that he had mistakenly voted for it.

Obama would later develop a reputation as a critic of the gambling industry, and he voted against a similar measure two years later. But he was clearly confused about how to handle the issue at the time of his first vote, telling a church group that he was "undecided" about whether he backed an expansion of riverboat gambling. And, months earlier, he had voted in favor of a version of the bill.

[Jones]

OBAMA WAS AWFUL IN THE DEBATE, we cannot risk our country on him! OUR TIME HAS COME FOR DEMOCRATS TO FULLY SUPPORT SENATOR CLINTON TO WIN IN NOV.
Hillary dominates Philadelphia we now know who won the debate according to our focus group. Senator Clinton is the debate winner, 23% believe Senator Obama won while 50% believed Senator Clinton won. Debate Analysis, 4/16/08
ABC News Political Radar Rick Klein – Clinton is back to the strong presence we saw early in the cycle.
MSNBC News Chuck Todd – Obama ‘did not have a good night. Obama’s answer on Ayers and the flag were simply weak. He seemed unprepared, Kinda surprising because questions seemed to stump him each time.
Atlantic’s Marc Ambinder – Theres no way Obama could have fared worse.
Washington Post’ Chris Cillizza— Obama struggled quite a bit when asked about Rev. Wright his pastor.
New York Times’ Katharine Seeyle: Hillarys in her element as she goes into details. Shes becoming expansive, seemingly in her element as she goes into details; Mr. Obama does not look as thrilled to be still standing there.
Talking Points Memo’s Josh Marshall – Hillary ‘certainly seems more self-assured.'She certainly seems more self-assured on the Iran question than Obama did we could clearly see he was on delicate territory.
Philadelphia Inquirer –Obama is again less certain and rambles again. When asked about the Washington D.C. gun ban. Gibson asks him to deny that he has ever advocated a complete ban on hand guns in 1996. Obama says no. But whatever the truth, no other answer is possible
NBC News’ Matthew Berger – Obama tried to have it both ways with Israel. Obama's answer on an Iranian attack on Israel tried to seem to have it both ways: highlight his support for Israel but not lock him into treating an attack on Israel like an attack on the U.S. But it may have looked more like a no because it wasn't a firm yes. Clintons answers were direct.
AMAZING NEW ARTICLE ON OBAMA - SHOWS HE TRULY IS A RADICLE.
IF CBS IS PRINTING OBAMA STUFF, YOU KNOW OBAMA IS READY TO IMPLODE.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/11/opinion/main4009369.shtml

[Othello]

The reason why so many people thought the questions were unfair is because the debate focused on Obama the first 45 minutes while Hillary only got a couple of questions in regard to her Bosnia flap,.... they could have asked her about Whitewater, or the fact that her former church pastor came out and supported Rev Wright, or about her comment about baking cookies that seemed elitist and how could she call Obama elitist compared to charmed, powerful life she's led. It just seemed like poor journalism and biased. I would have had more respect if they had asked more equal questions. I usually watch George Stephanopolis so I was surprised at him in particular,.... he after all did come out and criticize Bill Clinton on the Monica Lewinski scandal. I am really looking forward to getting this primary race over because of the way it is dividing the Democrats though. Hillary is so anti-Obama, that it fans the flames of hate as displayed by the Obama Lies Again post -- if Hillary stays in the race she should at least take a more positive tone and reject negativity since this only encourages her supporters to be negative also. Her real issues to lead the country --which are good -- are covered up by her Anti-Obama sentiments.

[Candy]

My goodness, what a big ole crybaby! He really is a little cream puff. Whining because he was asked some tough questions and didn't get his pillow fluffed. Got his little behind kicked by a gurl! Oh no, Mommy!!! Georgie and Charlie and Hilly ain't playing fair, I want to go and play at Timmeh, Keithie and Chrissy's house. Waaaa.Waaaaa,Waaaa

[Obama supporter]

I was shock that the media did not dig deeper into the situation with Bill Clinton pardoning two criminals. I did some research and found out the one of those individuals was Hillary Clinton brother. He was involved with some international drug traffic deal. Now, If Bill Clinton pardon her brother this time what going to happen when he get caught again and need a free get of jail ticket. I really believe that if Hillary was to when the primary elections she will most deffinately have some illegal dealing with her brother, if this have not happen already.

This information should be front page world news...

[mariann]

Thought the debate questions were 'fair' but only SOMEWHAT RELEVANT in comparison to our men and woman dying in Iraq/Afgan, the US Economy, corporate welfare, out-sourcing of American jobs, the shrinking dollar, the deficit, etc. I enjoy George Stephanopolous' Sunday political show and analysis BUT, I also enjoyed and got a good chuckle out of one of 19,000 postings at the ABC website: "....had received nearly 19,000 comments, most of them attacking the tenor of the debate and the moderators. One called Stephanopolous "George Stupidopolous."

[Ex Cen Trick]

Hillary is so desperate be it is really becoming a "reality" actually may lose. I don't think the Clintons are used to this.

She further puts nails on her coffin as she continues to harp on the "peripherals" instead of the sold platforms and social, political and economic concerns that established her as a renowned leader in the political arena.

I'm so disgusted with the Democratic party, that in November, I'll just stay home, open a new box of cigars, and play with myself.

[Sidney Hall Jr.]

While Obama supporters (who are not after all any minority) do have good reason to complain about the quality of the debate, I think most Obama supporters feel Obama did quite well in the debate. The stupid questions are not ones that lend themselves to good answers, and yet he answered well anyway.

The real issue here is the media criticism, and it doesn't matter a bit whether it comes from HRC or BO or McCain supporters. To blame the criticism on BO supporters is just another way of avoiding the real debate that needs to happen: has the media gone off the rails altogether, as it appears they have?

[Fritlewis]

"Senator Obama, who is more patriotic: you or Reverend Wright?"

Congratulations to George Stephanopoulos for asking the stupidest question thus far in this campaign.

Honestly, all one has to do is to watch a videotape of the 1960 Kennedy/Nixon debate to be shaken awake as to how dumbed down America'a national political conversation has become in the forty-eight years since. The other night's debate was beyond embarrasing - it was an utter disgrace.

[BETTY]

Great wb site go to HILLARY CLINTON.COM read her press releases.good luck pa primary.TEXAS VOTED HILLARY

[Teri B.]

I was just watching Reliable Sources address the debate, and yeah, I think we can all agree the "flag pin" question was a bit much, though I didn't realize "the women on the street" who asked the question was actually someone the NY Times quoted about this, but all these other questions really were legitimate. The media has focused on the Rev. Wright and "bitter" remarks ad nauseum, and this IS the first debate held since these issues came up. But the larger point is that of the other 20-something debates, many of them focused rather harshly on Clinton's negatives. This ONE debate was more focused on Obama's, the front runner's, negatives, and the whining is deafening - just deafening. I think that highlights pretty starkly just how great the bias in the media really is. And let's face it, if he had actually performed well, no one would be saying a word, other than to praise how he tough he is.

This entire argument highlights IMO a greater issue, the liberal media's overwhelming favoritism toward Obama, and that's actually the more substantive issue here. When Clinton was the front-runner, that was the "excuse" for her getting the majority of the hammering. If Obama makes it to the general election, you can bet he's going to get roughed up plenty and that these issues are going to come up again.

So . . . he can cry me a river. He's sure never complained about be the liberal media's darling.