Democrat party leaders inch toward agreement on Florida, Michigan

What a mess this Michigan-Florida business has made for the Democrats! But signs began to emerge today from several directions that some kind of bi-state compromise might be emerging.

With polls and early voter turnout auguring a very good political year for Democrats, the last thing that fragile coalition of interests wants is to be torn asunder by an enduring struggle or hard feelings by a wing supporting Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama.

Already the Republican nominee, John McCain, is at work on his general election team, plans and strategy while the two Democratic camps, for lack of any real substantive differences to dispute, argue over advisor's remarks, plagiarism, Ken Starr of all people and what time of night crisis calls arrive in the White House. Plus Michigan and Florida.

The problem began with the now-humorous multi-state rush to the....

front of the calendar line to hold state primaries, thinking the early states would be decisive this cycle. At least that's the way it looked way, way back in 2007. Now, with the Obama-Clinton race fairly tight, all eyes are focused on Pennsylvania of all places on April 22. So, early wasn't best after all.

Anyway, despite Democratic Party rules and warnings to protect the early status of New Hampshire and Iowa for reasons that no one outside those irrelevant states can really explain, Florida and Michigan defiantly moved their dates up.

Some state Republican parties did the same, but the GOP's punishment was to reduce, not eliminate, their delegates.

Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean, whose own presidential campaign blew up in Iowa when he did too one night four years ago, ruled that both states' delegations would not be recognized at the convention in Denver in late August. It is, of course, ultimately untenable for either party to write off two such important states.

But almost everybody among the serious candidates played along. Most removed their names from the Michigan ballot except Clinton, who never got around to it. And they all honored the ban on campaigning in either place, although some did hold Florida fundraisers, which were allowed. And somehow, son of a gun, word got out to the media, so the cameras and reporters were there and it looked, for all the world, like campaigning to millions of viewing voters.

Clinton won in both places and even held a victory rally in Florida after the election that wasn't supposed to matter. With no Obama on the ballot, she got 55% of the Michigan Democratic vote. But, ominously, even without serious opposition fully 40% of the party voted for "Uncommitted" instead of her.

As a bargaining position, Clinton has held that both states should be counted and seated and millions of votes not disregarded (not counting Florida votes has bad echoes for Democrats since 2000). And doing so would, not coincidentally, erase much of her delegate deficit behind Obama, who opposes it.

What to do?

Another vote in both places? Expensive and both state's governors -- one Democrat and one Republican -- said public money shouldn't be wasted on a fractious party's unnecessary internecine fight. A caucus? Given his impressive record with caucuses, that clearly favors Obama and requires finding hundreds of meeting sites.

Let them fight it out before the credentials committee in August? Could leave hard feelings in the loser's camp and only two months to patch things.

Leave it to the superdelegates? How could they realistically go against the two states' documented popular vote? But, oops, those votes aren't supposed to count.

Today, as often happens on slow winter Sundays after the NFL season, more attention was paid to the Sunday talk shows by folks who weren't going to church. And there, a possible consensus began to emerge among Democrats.

The answer: a mail-in ballot. The cost: maybe $6 million, according to Florida Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson, who proposed the solution and is working with Michigan's Democratic Sen. Carl Levin on a compromise. According to law, Florida's party can accept unlimited donations.

Dean on "This Week with George Stephanopoulos," said mail-in ballots were "not a bad way to do this." On the same show Levin expressed concerns over security for a million or so mailed ballots but said, "Only a mail-in kind of a vote will work."

On the same program and CBS' "Face the Nation," Dean claimed it was a "bigger issue than Florida and Michigan. We have a very close contest between two people who are likely to be elected President of the United States, whichever one wins the nomination. I have to run these rules so that the losing side feels they've been treated fairly."

Dean added that some solution needs to be completed within the next three months. When anyone looks back over the last three months, June 10 seems like an eternity of twisting and turning and bickering away.

-- Andrew Malcolm

Comments

[cynthia]

I dare the bloggers to print tihis.
Three times in your column about the Michigan, Florida primaries you singled out your idea of Hillary's disgression.
Barack Obama and the other candidates were not required to pull their names off the ballot in both states. In fact, his name was on the ballot in Florida, and anounced before the Michigan vote, that a non-vote was a vote for him (that's not advertising?). It is the truth Barack Obama had TV advertisements airing in both the states of Florida and Michigan where supposedly they were forbidden to do so, begging off that he couldn't control national ads when the other candidates could. Hillary did not take her name off the ballots, and in my opinion honored the Americans who voted. Please, don't treat this election as if it is an 'AMERICAN IDOL' competition. I have two sons in the military, and I am sick and tired of this election being hiijacked by you two elderly guys out for entertainment. You call yoursellves journalists?? PROVE IT!!

[John Cavanaugh]

Florida and Michigan could employ the Texas "Two Step" approach. Allow the original votes to count for 1/2 to 2/3 of the delegates and then have a caucus to determine the rest.

[Andrew Benjamin]

They went early. They were warned...repeatedly not to. They broke the rules anyway. Now they are being rewarded with a do-over? I think every other state's citizens should file an equal protection suit in every federal court they can find. No one else gets a do-over no one disenfranshised them; they did this to themselves. Want to vote? sure thing we welcome your "legal" vote in the general election.

[Dawn]

I'm sorry....I just don't get it. Why, just because the campaign is close, are we even considering allowing Florida and Michigan to vote? A decision was made a long time ago, so why should it be be changed now? This is totally unfair to Obama and I find it an outrage. If Clinton wins because of this, I will absolutely not vote. How can we change the rules 2/3 into the campaign?

[Richard S'Chevalier]

Now how is it that it may be permitted to change the rules in the middle of the game. Hillary Clinton has shown her true greedy self, do anything and say anything to win. There had best be an awakening to what the actual outcome will very possibly be if the rules are now changed. You will see a nation so terribly divided that it will actually destory the Republic. Should those who may erronously believe such would not to happen are simply refusing to realize the actuality of it. Both the previous Clintons co-presidency and present Bush presidency has destroyed most all respect other nations once had for us. Must we now simply leap into the abyss of total destructions, because of the present political greedy pandering of the Clintons and their lackies.

[NinaK]

The original DNC ruling to not seat Michigan and Florida delegates at the conviention MUST STAND! Hillary, Michigan and Forida did not have a problem with the rules until 18 long months later. The ONLY reason it is an issue now is because HILLARY LOST HER INEVITABLE CROWN AND IS BEHIND IN STATES WON, THE POPULAR VOTE, AND DELEGATES!! that is the ONE AND ONLY REASON. Michigan and Florida did not start whining uintil HILLARY STARTED WHINING!! I mean, 18 months (a whole Year and a half ) went by without ANYONE complaining!! The DNC CANNOT CAVE IN TO CLINTONS DEMANDS PERIOD!! It is evident Michigan and Florida were okay with the rules until Hillary started churning her crapola of "not fair" . The people in Florida and Michigan were aware their delegates would not be seated...and they did not complain about fairness or unfairness until now.

LET THE RULES STAND!!! DO NOT CAVE IN TO HILLARY'S WHINING, AGAIN, DO NOT CAVE IN TO HILLARY'S WHINING. IF SHE WAS IN THE LEAD, AND MR. OBAMA WAS WHINING, YOU CAN BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR SHE WOULD BE TOTALLY AGAINST SEATING THESE DELEGATES!! ENOUGH OF GIVING IN TO THIS SHAMELESS AND SELFISH EXUSE OF A WOMAN AND CANDIDATE!!!

(Nevermind Clinton for a minute. Say Obama is the candidate in November. Doesn't the party risk losing two very important states in November with their crucial electoral votes because their angry Dem. voters and delegates were not counted this winter and summer? Just asking.) P.S. Leaving the same comment many times still doesn't get it posted more than once.

[CRS in San Francisco]

Hillary already lost my Vote. In the general I am voting for Obama or Nader (if she hijacks the primaries.)

[NinaK]

The original DNC ruling to not seat Michigan and Florida delegates at the conviention MUST STAND! Hillary, Michigan and Forida did not have a problem with the rules until 18 long months later. The ONLY reason it is an issue now is because HILLARY LOST HER INEVITABLE CROWN AND IS BEHIND IN STATES WON, THE POPULAR VOTE, AND DELEGATES!! that is the ONE AND ONLY REASON. Michigan and Florida did not start whining uintil HILLARY STARTED WHINING!! I mean, 18 months (a whole Year and a half ) went by without ANYONE complaining!! The DNC CANNOT CAVE IN TO CLINTONS DEMANDS PERIOD!! It is evident Michigan and Florida were okay with the rules until Hillary started churning her crapola of "not fair" . The people in Florida and Michigan were aware their delegates would not be seated...and they did not complain about fairness or unfairness until now.

LET THE RULES STAND!!! DO NOT CAVE IN TO HILLARY'S WHINING, AGAIN, DO NOT CAVE IN TO HILLARY'S WHINING. IF SHE WAS IN THE LEAD, AND MR. OBAMA WAS WHINING, YOU CAN BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR SHE WOULD BE TOTALLY AGAINST SEATING THESE DELEGATES!! ENOUGH OF GIVING IN TO THIS SHAMELESS AND SELFISH EXUSE OF A WOMAN AND CANDIDATE!!!

[Joseph L. Ponessa]

In addition to primary and caucus, a third option is a state party convention. All the elected Democratic state and federal officials from Michigan or Florida could meet as a convention, and elect a slate of official delegates to send to the national convention. The cost would be minimal compared to any kind of revote.

[Computer Expert Witness]

What a crock!!! "...to protect the early status of New Hampshire and Iowa." Have the "Sacred Cows" of Iowa and new Hampshire overcome a State's right to choose when to have their primary? Give me (and the rest of the nation) a break. So much noise or "Buzz" comes out of these two races, you'd think that the candidate has a clear mandate, whether it is Jimmy Carter or John McCain. Let's move into the 21st Century and just have sections of the nation (Northeast, Southeast, Southwest and Northwest) of the nation vote on a rotating basis, every Presidential Election year, in 45 day increments.

[ToeKnee]

I still find it funny that Obama was on the ballot in FL and Hillary won! He was on the ballot, he had ads running & he lost. Simple. Why the media wants to drag this out is obvious, ratings. Now for MI. by all means lets do the mail-in. Obama was not on the ballot, he did have ads running, but hey, lets just move on. I really don't care if Obama-Clinton or Clinton-Obama is how the ticket reads as long as we don't have another 8 years of a Republican in the White House...

[Ben]

Still does not make sense. Is a close contest no doubt, but how does changing the rules in mid game make it more fair. Is still going to be a close contest. This is like in stone paper scissor. After you loose one hand, you ask for 2 out of 3. Is a well known trick. It gives the loosing party one more chance to win. It is considered cheating by those who know statistics well. How can the DNC allow a statistical cheating trick in an election.
Public should not buy this changing the rules unless party leaders can fully explain how it makes election more fair. Good luck.
Worst case scenario is Barack lost because MI and FL were included. You will never satisfy half your Democrats and the black population with that one.
If Hilary lost because MI and FL were not included, no one would complain except Hilary. Think about the consequence before you do something so stupid.

[Eric Scott]

We've had almost eight years of a president who feels that the rules only apply when they favor him or his friends. Now Hillary Clinton is taking this same arrogant and cynical approach, pressuring the DNC to change their rules mid-stream simply because she cannot win any other way. How very Bush-like of her. Coupled with the incompetence of her campaign, the divisiveness of her politics, and the secrecy about her financial affairs, it seems clear that what she's really offering is another four years of "same old, same old". America deserves better. Michigan and Florida knew the score and made their decision anyway; them's the breaks.

[smokey]

Am I the only person in the world who didn't know Obama wasn't even a US senator who the vote to authorize force was taken? Obama wasn't sworn in until Jan-2005! I'm freaked out! The press makes it sound like he VOTED AGAINST THE WAR, and HE WASN'T EVEN THERE!! I'll be a sob.

[cb]

Caucusing is a bad way to run an election. I was involved in the Texas Two Step. We are neglecting to count the votes of individuals who are unable to caucus because of health, failure to get transportation, etc. If the Democratic Party is about all voices being heard, why are we doing this to our sick and elderly. Do you want their votes to count. The night of the Texas Caucus many seniors told me their friends just could not make it. I felt sorry for so many seniors who stayed. It was obviously stressful. Either a primary(where absentee voting is permitted) or a mail in. All of us should be counted!!

[allanb]

Y not have a winner take it all (whoever rakes in 2025 delegates). This saves expenses for the party.

[Roger]

The DNC may not accept the citizens of Florida & Michigan's voice at there convention but come November they can't suppress there voice any longer. I think Florida & Michigan citizens will at that time make very clear there voice! As will there fellow citizens all across this country who believe in a citizens right to have there voice heard and there vote count. The DNC will regret having gotten away with a bad & illegal rule that is in conflict with the constitution of the United States. Our government leaders may not want to take on the issue because they are all part of a party but we the people know wrong when we see it and come November we the people will let the DNC know they should have counted the Florida & Michigan votes and chosen delegates in a open and fair election that was conducted by the government.

[Doug]

I have an idea: When state parties break the rules set by the national party, the state's delegates do not get seated at the national convention. Wait, that's already been proposed (by the Democratic Party).

Primaries are not a democratic process, where representative results set the standard for validity. The primaries belong to the parties, and they are the parties' way of selecting their candidates.

Remember: These are not your candidates or mine. They are the party's candidates that are being selecting, and the process of choosing them belongs to the parties, not to you and me.

The rules were clear, and Florida and Michigan blatantly broke the rules.

[highwayscribery]

Toeknee,

Mike Gravel's name was probaby on the ballot, too. That doesn't mean he had a campaign there. They all signed a pledge not to do so in Florida. It was not a legitimate competition and that's why it doesn't count. Clinton won something that was not contested. Obama's commercials were part of "regional buy" and hardly make up for the mailers not purchased, envelopes not stuffed, speeches not given and so on.

the scribe

[Thomas]

Florida and Michigan should not get a re-vote. Their state legislators decided to break the rules and so if their constituents are angry at being disenfranchised, then they should take it out on their own state officials, not the whole country. I am sick of Florida's ineptitude making problems for our elections.

And another writer was right when they noted how shameless Hillary is talking about the right for voters to be respected. If she was up without these two states, she would do anything humanly possible to keep these delegations from being seated. She epitomizes the politics of personal ambition and destruction.

What is disenfranchisement is not denying these delegations, its stealing a nomination from the person that has more pledged delegates, more states and more of the popular vote. If Hillary does that, then she will have pulled a Karl Rove-George Bush-Supreme Court coup and then....

as I fierce lefty, I hope the Democrats go down in a ball of flames in November. I will help that happen by staying home.

[Polly Farmer]

According to Florida Statute, a mail-in primary is NOT legal:
"101.6102 Mail ballot elections; limitations.--
(2) The following elections may not be conducted by mail ballot:
(a) An election at which any candidate is nominated, elected, retained, or recalled;"

[Victor]

Those of you who are totally against a re-vote just don't get it. If the Democratic National Convention DOES NOT seat these delegates, neither candidate will have the required number of delegates to win the nomination. What will have to happen then? Will they have to "bend the rules" and give it to the candidate with the most delegates between them? Last I checked the required number of delegates to win the nomination was still 2024. I know Obama supporters would want to end the contest based on that scenario instead of just admitting their bias is leading them to say they don't want to see a re-vote in Florida and Michigan. He can't win any of the big states or any of the so-called "swing states," such as Ohio and Florida, but he can sure win big in states that will go to McCain in the general election. The popular vote means nothing (unfortunately) because of this thing called the Electoral College. If the democratic nominee can't win any of the swing states, we will reluctantly see McCain win the presidency.

[George]

I just had a funny thought!!
Obama has to take Casey up (the girl, his supporter, in Clinton’s fear night call ad) and make a really nice commercial :

The add should be the girl waking up from a nightmare of Clinton promoting McBush over Obama and dividing the party for selfish reasons. Make it a comedy.

(Good one, George. Very clever. You've got a future career in politics obviously, if you don't have one already.)

[Swannie]

OBAMA is a hypocrite, and not qualified by his judgement or actions to be president of a nation where people have died to preserve their right to vote, because he is so willing to put his ambition and interests above that of the people ... is this what he he wants us to be proud of?? thank godness Hillary pushed for voters representation
arent the " RULES", those various and sundry rules that were in place to make sure only the right people voted.... the right way ... arent the RULES what kept black voters from voting in so many elections for so many years??Arent they ???So now if it is in his interest the "rules" which he failed to follow anyway , are important to him?? I guess it doesnt matter if voters are disenfranchised .. as long as the "right party" wins and ciill and constitutonal rights that people died to uphold dont matter .... ONE PERSON ONE VOTE ... THIS IS still the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

[NotstraDEMUS]

Victor:
You've hit the nail squarely on the head.
The last time I checked, there were 50 state stars on the flag of the United States, not 48!
Chairman (I have a scream) Dean's churlish decision to "punish" Florida and Michigan for having the temerity to maximize early leverage in this Primary season was simply put, stupid. Beyond the obvious electoral college math you point out, Democrats would forever cede their alleged moral high-ground over Florida 2000 if we selected our nominee with both of these state delegations not seated. If Dean doesn't figure out how to be a "Solomon", instead of "Stalin", then it is likely that we will see President McCain inaugurated in January of 2009.