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Hillary Clinton and the Herbert Hoover card

In the very first words she uttered reacting to John McCain's speech on the housing market crisis Tuesday, Hillary Clinton evinced part of her appeal to older voters: her frame of reference is theirs.

"It sounds remarkably like Herbert Hoover," Clinton said of McCain's assertion that he is not inclined -- and probably never will be -- to embrace aggressive, sweeping government efforts to confront the problem of rising home foreclosures.

Specifically, McCain opined that "it is not the duty of government to bail out and reward those who act irresponsibly, whether they are big banks or small borrowers."

By mentioning Hoover, whose tepid response to the Great Depression helped keep the White House in Democratic hands for 20 straight years after he was bounced from office in the 1932 election, Clinton invoked what once was a can't-miss applause line among Democrats. Into the 1960s, speeches at major party gatherings were sure to include denunciations of "Hooverism."

But while Clinton's remark took us back, it also underscored the generational split that is a key dynamic in her fight with Barack Obama for the Democratic presidential nomination. Among younger voters -- who in most states have proved a loyal Obama bloc -- references to the Hoover administration aren't likely to have much (if any) resonance.

As Obama returned to the campaign trail today ....

after his short break in the U.S. Virgin Islands, his response to McCain's speech focused on what has become the default position for Democrats criticizing the presumed Republican nominee on the No. 1 domestic issue.

"John McCain has admitted that he doesn't understand the economy as well as he should," Obama said at a town-hall meeting in Greensboro, N.C. "And yesterday, he proved it in a speech he gave on the housing crisis."

And when Obama called forth his version of a GOP bogeyman, it wasn't Hoover but the current occupant of the White House.

"We’ve been down this road before," he said of McCain's hands-off policy. "It’s the road that George Bush has taken for the last eight years."   

-- Don Frederick

 
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Never mind Herbert H and give us another J Edgar Hoover
and no candidate would survive beeing associated with
the Rezco, Wright and Farrakhans.Toads and politicaly
correct sissys rule today's intelligence institutions and the
price will be exorbitant.

Of course it's not the Government's job to help any of it's citizens! The Government's job is whatever corporate lobbyists say it is. The government should be writing blank checks to Halliburton and leaving ordinary people to pay the bill. McBush sucks.

Incredible that George McGovern would suggest that America won't elect a woman - Hillary or otherwise. I'm not for her, but I think he's about two generations past his prime. There's an interesting thread on the subject here:
http://digits.hrblock.com/ssDigits/digits.php?rType=1&sPath=1839&sNode=1839&uId=289

Well considering the cost of J Edgar Hoover (COINTELPRO disrupting M.L.K. speeches anyone?) I'd probably take the guy that happened to live next to a slumlord in Chicago (where most people live near slumlords).

Yeah, that's the ticket...give us another J. Edgar, complete with wiretapping, McCarthyism, witch hunts, gay bashing, guilt by association, leaks of government info to crush enemies...

Wait...

We've got all that from the Hannity/Limbaugh/neo-con slime machine already, and likely more from McBush, so...who needs J. E. Hoover?

My reaction to Mrs. Clinton's 30bln $ plan was much like McCain's: why should MY taxes go to bail out irresponsible people? I have been almost priced out of the market by the housing bubble, which was created by irresponsible bankers and irresponsible borrowers, who artificially increased demand. I say "almost" priced out, b/c my family could have afforded a so-so house by stretching our finances to the limit, or a great house by being irresponsible. We chose not to be. Now the Democrats want to bail out those who were, which will KEEP the house prices high. And all this on MY taxes. If the Fed has 30bln $ to burn, then give them back as tax refunds to everyone, not to the greedy, irresponsible few.

While Obama may believe that McCain does not understand the economy Obama certainly does not understand the purpose of the government. The government was never designed as a safety net for those who acted irresponsibly. Also, it should be pointed out that blame for the sub-prime lending market falls squarely on the shoulders of the left who, 10 years ago, cried out against the fact that high-risk borrowers could not secure loans so they passed legislation that created the sub-prime lending market. Thanks lefties!

Yes, it does sound like Herbert Hoover. If you are shakey on who he was,cut and past this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Hoover

I support the Tibetans in their struggle for religious freedom and human rights!

http://www.freetibet.org

the clintons in all their glory... http://earlcallaway.com/corpsecount.html

The Democrats want to use our tax dollars bailout irresponsible borrowers.

> no candidate would survive beeing associated with
the Rezco, Wright and Farrakhans

Or Hagee! Or how about those involved in the Whitewater deals! Oh, right, I think there were a bunch of suicides once they were found out, but who remembers that far back?

Give me a brake! John is the only guy in this fight with any understand of the issues -- other than pandering!

What IS this thing Republicans have for guys who dress up in women's clothes, hang out in public restrooms looking for hummers, troll for underage congressional pages, and pay hookers to make them crap into diapers? Bill Clinton and Monica look downright normal in comparison to some of these GOP perverts.

Release your TAX FORMS, Hill Clinton! What are you hiding? And that lie about running from sniper attack- how could you shrug a huge lie like that off as a "misspeak"? Wright was a marine who grew up in Jim Crow discrimination, and had his angry moments that didn't represent 20 years as a pastor. And Wright is not Obama. But Hill Clinton is Hill Clinton, her own lies and all,

Hillary should be the nominee, she scarificed her own life in the face of sniper fire in Bosnia, she did not support the NAFTA and she was actively involved in the Ireland talks.

Go Hillary, we admire your honesty, we want a truthful President like you.

Seems to me it was hands on government that led to this (Didn't the fed's reduction of rates 7 years ago fuel the housing bubble?). Maybe it's time the speculators and investors took home the fact that theirs is a risky profession. As for the number of foreclosures, there shouldn't be a bailout for folks who bought looking to turn a profit. There should be a very critical review of predatory lenders and a cessation of the "poor must pay more" mentality that seems to keep the big banks with billion dollar profits.

It is not the government job to bail out people who make stupid mistakes. Buying a house is a big responsibility and buying a house you can't afford is the fault of the BUYER not the government. I feel sorry for people who fell into the idea that they can buy a bigger house then they can afford with no money down, balloon mortgage, etc. but when are we going to admit that we are all responsible for our own mistakes and must bear the consequences. It always goes back to the same issue..greed. Both on the part of the lenders and on the part of the borrower.

It's incredible that the hard working RESPONSIBLE people in the country have to bail out the people who purchased too much house, too much automobile, too much credit card debt, too much everything. I might as well stop paying my mortgage, buy a new car, and then run up a bunch of debt. I'll let the government bail me out. The reason this country is going down the drain is people are not being held accountable for their actions. Try living within your means please because I don't want to pay your bills!

The number of people posting here who think Herbert Hoover is J. Edgar Hoover......get an education you idiots.

Not sure its fair to say that comments about Hoover won't resonate with younger voters, as I am one...because I didn't live through the Depression I don't realize the impact it had on our country? I would argue that a majority of young voters care about history and politics, which is what may lead us to vote in the first place. It is also the reason many of us are supporters of Obama; we have have more to lose in the long run if policies like those of Hoover and Bush are directing our country. Also, whereas Hilliary offers a RE-establishment of American values, we want to believe that Obama will have the vision and charisma to offer a NEW establishment. The catch-phrase of "change" is a dumbed down way to look at it, because our hopes and fears actually run deeper than that in a potentially vital election year.

The posturing of the Democratic contenders vs. the fresh thoughts from McCain makes me lean towards the Republican party. It's politics as usual with Clinton, and now even Obama. They cannot seem to come up with an original idea or stand on any issues. At least McCain tells it like he believes. I had high hopes for the Dems, but they are acting like buffoons, in embarrassing detail.

The popular view of Hoover as having a hands-off approach to the Great Depression is truly ironic, since anyone who has actually studied the period knows Hoover was one of the most aggressive economic interventionists of his time. It was government interference in the economy, a great deal of it directed by Hoover's administration, that turned what should have been a sharp but swift recession into the most drawn out and painful periods of economic decline in American history.

Government intervention is what got us into this mess (read "Greenspan's Bubbles"), and more of it will only make the situation worse and delay the day when economic prosperity can return to America.

Not sure its fair to say that comments about Hoover won't resonate with younger voters, as I am one...because I didn't live through the Depression I don't realize the impact it had on our country? I would argue that a majority of young voters care about history and politics, which is what may lead us to vote in the first place. It is also the reason many of us are supporters of Obama; we have have more to lose in the long run if policies like those of Hoover and Bush are directing our country. Also, whereas Hilliary offers a RE-establishment of American values, we want to believe that Obama will have the vision and charisma to offer a NEW establishment. The catch-phrase of "change" is a dumbed down way to look at it, because our hopes and fears actually run deeper than that in a potentially vital election year.

Do you people actually realize we're talking about HERBERT Hoover and NOT J. Edgar?

Seriously. If you're so out of touch with who Billary is being compared to, either do some frigging research or don't vote. The ignorance some of you display is PAINFUL.

To Myself,

Could not have said it better myself (No pun intended).

It was obvious that stretching people's finances to the max on the extremely low starting rate on an ARM was going to cause them to fail to pay when it flipped to 2-3X the % rate and doubled or tripled their montly pay.

That is irresponible and those jackasses should not be bailed out. The Consumer unfortunatly is just as much to blame for not reasearching the largest purchase of their life to the fullest.

The people speculating and doing intrest only loans got what they deserved.

I am tired of my "cost of living" going up because others make stupid choices. I also want to live the american dream of family/home but it keep becoming further and further out of my reach due to the housing market's ever inflating prices. This bubble is my first sign of joy in a long time and I hope it brings the market back to a more realistic level and not have houses cost 10 times the median annual salary of most places.

Hoover? Damn, what century is HC in? When it comes to invoking the blarney politics of yesteryear, Bill's wife excels. She would sell her soul to the devil for a chance to live for free in another government mansion. All these two have known since 1974, professional politician-hood.That is plenty enough time on the public dole! If she had any character or integrity at all she would have ended her mismanaged campaign and gone back to the Senate to create earmarks to keep herself in a job in her "adopted state of New York. What a farce of a candidate. Duck, sniper fire!!! Hah! Shyster!

Hillary should be the nominee, she scarificed her own life in the face of sniper fire in Bosnia, she did not support the NAFTA and she was actively involved in the Ireland talks.

Go Hillary, we admire your honesty, we want a truthful President like you.

Posted by: S. Fonseka
_______________________________________________

What are you smoking? Pass me some... there was no sniper fire. Didn't you see the video clip where she is talking to an 8 yr old girl on the tarmac? Hillary was all for NAFTA when Bill was president. And Ireland, oh please, even the Prez of Ireland called that assertion "silly."

With all the infighting in the Democratic party... welcome President John McCain.

Get a grip and get back on your meds...

Haven't you seen the interview of college students where Hillary held her initial campaign speeches and qa sessions?

Students told news reporters that Hillary's campaign staff gave pre-printed questions to ask Hillary during the q/a session, and the unsuspecting students fell for it. I am not making this up.

Now Hillary sniper-fire Clinton might be trying to change the subject from her Bosnia lies. She is trying to get the sympathy votes. Now dragging Hoover in the middle so that people will forget her lying.

Hillary "sinper-fire" Clinton is a liar.
No liars for president.
No crooks for president.
No more pity votes.
No more sympathy votes.
Release your tax return.
Let us see your land dealings.
Let us see your sources of income.
Let us see whom you paid to murder Vince Forster.

Hilary will say anything to get elected and pander to any group. She will be the first to criticize fiscal responsibility when it is convenient for her, and then spin it like McCain favors throwing women ,children and invalids into the street.If he said yes let s bail them all out, she would have said he was irresponsible, please her time is up. Succeed to Obama, and lets get serious already. This Presidential debate needs to get serious. What plans do Obama and McCain have to overhaul the tax system to stimulate foreign investment and what about social security? Is sombody going to seriously resolve this global warming debacle?How are we going to help these people in Iraq?

To; realist
Put your prioritys in alphabetical order and try to distinguish between legend and reality. Dems have dominated in shocking vice and sexual deviancy since
time immemorial. The RINO you refer to are liberals
masquarading as republicans.

We as taxpayers should not be in the business of bailing anyone out....invest wisely ,spend wisely and you shouldn't have to be bailed out,,,,, we work our @##$ off so we can pay our bills. It's about time America started working again,there are jobs,out there so start looking busboys,dishwashers,waiters etc.... get up and start working America...instead off expecting to be bailed out.

Keith --

10 years ago the republican's controled both houses of congress by a large margin. Were these the republican lefties that were passing this legislation?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_elections,_1998

We as taxpayers should not be in the business of bailing anyone out....invest wisely ,spend wisely and you shouldn't have to be bailed out,,,,, we work our @##$ off so we can pay our bills. It's about time America started working again,there are jobs,out there so start looking busboys,dishwashers,waiters etc.... get up and start working America...instead off expecting to be bailed out.

Indeed Hillary belongs in the days of yore, she does NOT belong in today's political world. She is definitely a 'HAS BEEN". Hillary does not seem to grasp that today's generation has no use for politics of yesteryear, and especailly the dirty, low-down politics which she has injected into this campaign. Today's generation does NOT want a LIER AND A BURN-AND-TRASH CANDIDATE LEADING OUR COUNTRY. Hillary's White House records discount her what she's been selling to the American public!! Stay tuned, I am sure there's more to come which willl prove her the biggest liar in politics. Hillary, you make me sick to my stomach.

We must remember that the former President, Bill, is just as fraudulant as Hillary!! He has been out there spewing the same garbage as his wife. They are ruthless, dirty, lowdown scoundrels of the worst kind!!

So, she wants to steal Senator Obama's committed state delegates; does this shrew of a woman have no INTEGRITY AT ALL? By the time the campaign season ends, Hillary will be rememberd as a the lying witch, dedicated to HILLARY AND HILLARY ONLY. Bill's status has fallen already, doubt he'll ever get those speaking engagements again. Who wants a LIAR??? Maybe some of their friends have higher standards and will throw the Clintons under the bus!!

It is past time the superdelegates align themselves with Senator Obama and get this country moving forward and away from the Clintons and their iilk.

having bought a few houses i can say that the buyer doesn't seem to have much control as i have experience with loan packagers changing the terms right as you sit down to sign the final papers in one instance they changed the rate a full percentage from the quoted rate and if i hadn't immediately objected my husband would have signed as he was the one buying most people are so delighted to be able to get the house that they want that they let themselves be talked into a variety of bad situations its not being irresponsible its being uninformed who can predict a job loss or a job change that makes money tight or deal with the fact that lenders sold adjustable loans but george bush has held the cost of living raise for many social security and military families down to a 2.4% raise for the last 4 years adjustable loan rates which were the only rates available to many home buyers grew faster than 2.4% so i guess mcCain doesn't think we should have wanted the american dream a home of our own i am sure glad my house is totally paid for because living on that fixed income i sure could not afford to buy one now i hope i can still afford the gas for the car and the electricity to heat and cool plus eat modestly

Now Sen. Clinton is telling the pledged delegates they don't need to listen to the voters. What a dignified way to win a nomination, eh? She seems determined to rip the party to shreds rather than lose this bid. What kind of governing do you suppose we'll get from a person who tells delegates to disregard the voters? I think we've seen enough of that kind of "So?") governing over the past 8 yrs. Sen. Clinton needs to pack it in. She lost. She should at least TRY to be gracious about it.

Hey Vic Pery,you alone are confusing Herbert and J Edgar
Go play with your Barbie,Ken and Obama dolls and stop
playing adult.

"If, in order to be elected, a man of color has to pander to white folks, in ways that no white politician would ever have to do to people who were black or brown, then white privilege and white power remain operative realities. "

http://www.lipmagazine.org/~timwise/Obama.html

Religious Bigotry not equall

FOR THOSE OF YOU OUT THERE THAT STILL ARE "OUTRAGE ABOUT THE COMMENT MADE BY MR. OBAMA'S MINISTER READ THIS ARTICLE AND TELL ME THERE ISNT STILL A REASON FOR THOSE COMMENTS NOT TO BE SAID.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20080321/cm_huffpost/092663

P.S. WHY ISN'T THERE AS MUCH FUSS ABOUT WHAT JOHN MCCAIN'S PASTOR SAID ......BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE????? READ THE ARTICLE

John McCain's new best friend, Pastor John Hagee, refers to the Catholic Church as "a great w****" and a "cult" complicit in the Holocaust. What was McCain's response? Last week, he simply said, "I repudiate the possibility that some of you took Rev. Hagee's salient but poorly constructed remarks to possible indicate that he may have some anti-Catholic sentiments which he does not." Did he denounce the statements? Yes. The man? No.

and is he being judged by what his advisor said??? why is this not plasteres all over the news and dragged on for weeks?


I would appreciate if Hilary would not so simplify the housing crisis or its concequences. We aren't that stupid. Throwing 30 Billion at a few million defaulting loans doesn't address the economic meltdown caused by housing debt. Hilary's 30 Billion won't go any further than to bail out her hedge fund friends of Wall Street.

Re: comments about the sub-prime cisis; there is enough blame to go around for government, banking institutions, mortgage lenders, and individual borrowers. It is a complex convergence of out-of-control consumerism, predatory lending practices, unsound banking principles and irresponsible borrowing. What we DO about the mess is what really matters. The banks and the mortgage institutions should have to shoulder some of the cost due to their negligence, government needs to reassess the mortgage-lending laws and tighten controls, and borrowers should not be completely bailed out, dollar for dollar. I am amused though to hear folks complain about bailing out irresponsible borrowers when our taxpayers have traditionally 'bailed-out' huge coprorations and or banking institutions (Chrysler and the Savings and Loan industry).
My only political comment is to point out that both the $500 billion S&L debacle and the present Sub-Prime mortgage crisis both occurred during Republican administrations (read: regulatory oversight and responsibility) , Ronald Reagan and George Bush in the 80's and George Bush II in the 90's. I am not implying that Republican administrations are SOLELY responsible for these crisis. I am saying that as we have seen over the years (most recently the false energy crisis in California and the Western states, and the horrendous abuses by corporations that have contracts in Iraq) Republicans are like foxes guarding the hen house when it comes to financial malfeasance and banking abuses.

The consequences of poor judgement have impacted the entire global economy. If these consequences were limited just to those who made bad choices/decisions, I would go along with the "no government regulation" approach. But as long as these bad choices impact me directly I'll vote for regulation and government intervention in the economy. It's like motorcycle helmet laws. You can ride the Harley without a helmet when your accident doesn't impact my tax dollars ( rider now brain dead in the county hospital with family on welfare )

Hillary should be the nominee, she scarificed her own life in the face of sniper fire in Bosnia, she did not support the NAFTA and she was actively involved in the Ireland talks.

Go Hillary, we admire your honesty, we want a truthful President like you.

Posted by: S. Fonseka


I would encourage you to keep up-to-date with the news. Hillary's White House schedule shows Hillary SUPPORTED NAFTA!!! HILLARY LIED!!!

The Hillary/Bosnia incident regarding Hillary's claim of sniper fire, ducking of heads, and running to their vehicles to avoid the snipers' fire IS A BIG FAT LIE BY HILLARY CLINTON.!! Tapes from that trip with Hillary and Chelsea's arrival show an entirely different scenario.
HILLARY LIED!!!


(We had a video of that scene earlier this week in an item. And Sen. Clinton claiming sleep deprivation caused her to misspeak, although she said the precise words in the text of her speech posted on her website. Good thing she hasn't gotten any 3 A.M. phone calls yet.)

are there no work farms?
are there no prisons?

Herbert Hoover, sounds like she knew him personally, but who knows for sure she lies so much, but then she might have been ducking sniper fire when she recalled all this information.

It's the Economy, Stupid. McCain, Obama, and Clinton, who has advantage in economy? Clinton For Sure. From debate, knowledge, experience, it belongs to Clinton. Obama is like Bush, Change, Change, Change. Change what? How? He doesnot even have a clue. Although he did not vote for Iraq war, (he was not authorized to vote.) but he said HE WILL MEET LEADERS FROM EVIL COUNTIRES. He said I TRUSTED REKZO. His major voters bases are politically naive YOUTHS, sexism CAUCUS-GOERS, and majority Black voters. BUT probably its TOO LATE for Clinton.

Ummm.... I think S. Fonseka was actually kidding. People on these sites are wound so tight that the (minimal) humor in that post only provoked more spittle-producing hysteria. What is it about these comment sites that makes people hit their caps lock keys and forget to spell check, anyway?

I am appalled that so many bloggers equate HRC's remarks as pertaining to J. Edgar. Herbert HOOVER was a U.S. President during the Great Depression 1929 -1933. Does anyone know their US history anymore? What are the schools teaching about US history? Makes you kind of wonder how we are iin such a sorry state today, as few seem to have a clue to the past.

Ladies and Gentlemen it is without question that Barack Obama will be the Democratic party nominee. He won more votes, more pledged delegates, more states. You cannot simply move the goaI posts any longer just ask Bobby Bowden or Nancy Pelosi. I for one appreciate the tempering Senator Obama has received from Billary’s “kitchen sink, Tonya Harding” strategies. Senator Obama will be stronger for having risen above her divisiveness and our candidate will thus be prepared for the Karl Roves and their fear be afraid be very afraid techniques. The Democrats lost the House of Representatives, the Senate adn ofcourse the white House thanks to Bill Clinton ready for more of that?

John McCain Senator “McWar” cannot create more make believe boogeymen; the American people are now on to that b.s..

I fought in Iraq in the All Americans 82nd Airborne and join the now legions of my comrades opposed to the war which has cost 4000+ of my comrades in arms their lives and maimed another 25,000+. How much does a trillion and counting cost each American family? I ask any citizen who doubts the price of this war to visit the nearest Veterans hospital to them. The one I visit for therapy has a plaque on it that states The price of freedom is clearly evident here. The price for Iraq is way too high for a war which we should not be in. No WMD, No ties to Al Qaeda Etc. Etc. I pray that our country is really prepared to show courage and turn the page away from the dismal George W. cowboy with no guts or sense years and put our great nation on a better path.

Vote Barack Obama America.

While Obama may believe that McCain does not understand the economy Obama certainly does not understand the purpose of the government. The government was never designed as a safety net for those who acted irresponsibly. Also, it should be pointed out that blame for the sub-prime lending market falls squarely on the shoulders of the left who, 10 years ago, cried out against the fact that high-risk borrowers could not secure loans so they passed legislation that created the sub-prime lending market. Thanks lefties!

Posted by: Keith
----------------------

Legislation was passed 10 years ago, that created the sub-prime lending market. Ummm, that would be during Bill Clinton's administration. So, in essence he bears great responsibility for what's happening today!!! Yep, Clinton was a great President, wasn't he?? Yep, Yep.

Re: comments about the sub-prime cisis; there is enough blame to go around for government, banking institutions, mortgage lenders, and individual borrowers. It is a complex convergence of out-of-control consumerism, predatory lending practices, unsound banking principles and irresponsible borrowing. What we DO about the mess is what really matters. The banks and the mortgage institutions should have to shoulder some of the cost due to their negligence, government needs to reassess the mortgage-lending laws and tighten controls, and borrowers should not be completely bailed out, dollar for dollar. I am amused though to hear folks complain about bailing out irresponsible borrowers when our taxpayers have traditionally 'bailed-out' huge coprorations and or banking institutions (Chrysler and the Savings and Loan industry).
My only political comment is to point out that both the $500 billion S&L debacle and the present Sub-Prime mortgage crisis both occurred during Republican administrations (read: regulatory oversight and responsibility) , Ronald Reagan and George Bush in the 80's and George Bush II in the 90's. I am not implying that Republican administrations are SOLELY responsible for these crisis. I am saying that as we have seen over the years (most recently the false energy crisis in California and the Western states, and the horrendous abuses by corporations that have contracts in Iraq) Republicans are like foxes guarding the hen house when it comes to financial malfeasance and banking abuses.

Posted by: Scott
-------------------
Scott, George Bush was not the President in the nineties; that was BILL CLINTON, from 1992 to 2000. Please, blame the real culprit, do not blame it on GW Bush.

 
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A veteran foreign and national correspondent, Andrew Malcolm has served on the L.A. Times Editorial Board and was a Pulitzer finalist in 2004. He is the author of 10 nonfiction books and father of four. Read more.
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