Ron Paul gets some revenge

An easily overlooked aspect of the Iowa caucuses -- Ron Paul not only besting Rudy Giuliani, but doing so by more than 2-to-1 -- sparked a trip down memory lane for us.

It was mid-May, and the former mayor of New York was riding high following one of the early debates among the Republican presidential candidates. The primo sound bite had been a snap to identify: Giuliani's outraged, impassioned reply to Paul's assertion that U.S. foreign policy, especially the periodic bombing of Iraq in the aftermath of 1991's Gulf War, was to blame for the Sept. 11 attacks.

Giuliani, not waiting to be called upon, seized the moment by terming Paul's comment "an extraordinary statement" and urging the Texas congressman to retract it (which Paul did not).

To give Paul his due, even in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 -- when the emotional response to the assault was at its rawest -- serious scholars had begun hashing over the role played by American policy in the Mideast, particularly long-standing support for Israel, in fueling Islamic extremism and hatred for the U.S. But in the format of a candidate debate -- where rhetorical zingers count far more than lengthy discourse -- Paul's remark amounted to a grooved fast ball down the middle, and the consensus at the time was that Giuliani parked it.

As MSNBC's online political note put it at the time, Giuliani may want to "hire out Paul for the campaign trail -- he could be the Washington Generals to Rudy's Globetrotters" (i.e., the patsy willing to get beaten in every game).

That was then, this is now. In Iowa, Paul, 10%; Giuliani, 4%.

-- Don Frederick

Comments

[Doug D]

More like 3:1 for Ron Paul, with Rudy barely over 3%.

Huckster's win and Ron Paul's double-digit showing should serve as a huge rebuke to the TV networks that doled out air time in their debates based on meaningless early poll standings. There was no justification for it, and yet no one seems to be calling them on it.

[FormerTancredoFan]

I'm not worried about the early (relatively) low percentage of Ron Paul, because I know he will likely win, because Americans are tired with illegal immigration and want to fox this mess and self-deport illegals!

[JoninMN]

Giuliani probably still thinks he won that exchange. In fact, it was the exact point where his campaign began to fade.

Ron Paul standing up to the the war and fear-mongering Giuliani in that debate has since become one of the elements in hundreds of youtube videos. Intelligent people from all parties have seen in Rudy's rebuttal from that night his shocking ignorance in foreign policy. In fact, the more Rudy talks and gets exposure, the worse his poll numbers become. Maybe it is because voters are realizing he has very little experience outside of being the Mayor of New York? Or maybe it is all the videos of him prancing around in a dress. So very Presidential.

Rudy's plan of campaigning in the big states will look more and more foolish in the next few weeks. He will have a harder and harder time explaining all the major defeats. By the time Super Tuesday comes around, there will be nothing left of Rudy.

[KevinN]

When MSNBC viewers voted on who they thought won that debate, they voted overwhelmingly for Ron Paul, not Giuliani. That the pundits have completely ignored this point irks me to no end. Giuliani's "rhetorical zinger" was devoid of intellectual content, and I think that the viewers realized this. The pundits have so little faith in American voters.

[Carlo, from Italy]

I think that Ron Paul is preparing a long campaign: he has strong ideas and now he has even a lot of money. And I am sure that after this good score in Iowa, New Hampshire will give him other satisfactions. Libertarian America needs it, and all the lovers of freedom in the world are waiting for it.

[Larry Friend]

The media black-out on Ron Pal's message of Freedom & Liberty has taken a toll but Iowa proves that the momentum is building and that the People will be heard. Just as Giuliani was not the gift of 2008, as the media had touted him, so too will the media be wrong about Ron Paul. He will be the next president.

At 58 years of age I finally found a candidate that believes as I do. He has wholeheartedly supported the Constitution throughout his career. It is not some quaint, out of date document. From Democrat to Independent and now a registered Republican, I find I never knew what the Republican Party was meant to be until now. The reason is that the party has drifted away from its own roots. Don’t believe me! Read the Republican Party Platform of 1856: http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=2073.

Ron Paul’s messages are so common sense and all you need to do is follow the Constitution. His messages tell of known wrongs and what the Constitution says we should do about it. Many of these were written about in 1971 in a book called, “None Dare Call It Conspiracy”. Try: http://reactor-core.org/none-dare.html

Anyone that has not watched Ron Paul videos or looked at his voting record are doing their grandchildren a very great disservice. Ron Paul is America’s future.

Visit: www.ronpaul2008.com and see what the revolution is about.

[Mark]

The entrance polls show that IA GOP voters were 70% heavily pro-bush evangelicals. If we can get 10% of that voter base, we are much much higher already nationally that polls currently suggest. Also notice that we took 29% of independents, and a whopping 54% of the ANGRY anti-bush crowed, which wasn't that big in IA, but will be in other states.

[Rob Lewis]

Rupert Murdochs Newscorp certainly have made it their sole purpose to exclude Dr Paul from any decent news, and in a way a purposeful blacklisting of his campaign. The NEOCons are surely worried that the people may discover Liberty remains with one candidate, bringing the troops home imediately, getting rid of the FED and actually telling the truth whilst knowing SOMETHING about history and foreign policy only side with Dr Paul. Only Dr Paul has shown he can be trusted and to still see numbers of people vote because, "shes a woman" or "hes black" or hes the 911 guy is rediculous, where people STILL forget the issues at hand. Have not they learnt after Bush, and other Presidents that have led the US into wars with dubious reasons.
The time is at hand, and the lives of millions depend on your votes. The last thing that is needed is another flip flopping, corporate supporting, cash taking, lying warmonger in power again.
Please spread the word, because the media wont, they protect their profits too.

[DRH]

Whoopy-doopy... Ron Paul beat the Guy that Didn't Show Up?

[Rudy G]

Looks like Iowan's threw Rudy off the ferry and let Ron Paul stay on. Ruuuuuuudy - where are you?

[Rudy G]

Looks like Iowan's threw Rudy off the ferry and let Ron Paul stay on. Ruuuuuuudy - where are you?

[Jack Sanderson]

Ron Paul lost big time because he failed to discuss the issues that would have gotten 75% of Republican males to back him regardless of their support for the WOT.

Ron Paul could have discussed Internet regulation. Heck, he could have told American males "The Dems now agree with the Republicans on banning pornography". At least 75% of war hawks like buying pornography.

I am serious. Being anti-war and stressing that will only get you 10% or 15% tops. But being pro-free speech will get you 40% especially if you force your opponents to say they are NOT in favor of that.

Romney thinks it is "just tough" that new laws allow men to be more easily falsely accused of rape and abuse. Why not have Ron Paul confront him directly on these issues in a debate.

Ron Paul, instead, sets himself up for marginalization (even when it is a 10% or 15% marginalization) when he just talks about the war on terror in debates.

[Jason Wilson]

Hahahha @ Guliani
Any who ...I have seen some very intelligent remarks up there like the fact that Bush and Clinton got low scores and still became president...
The fact that Huckabee was escorted to the throne by evangelicals...I bet Pat Robertson feels silly endorsing Rudolf now! I hope that wasn't the holy spirit's decision Pat!
Any who again...Yeah really Ron Paul didn't put allot of effort in, but the seeds of lovers of freedom after years of being choked by the weeds of tyranny are starting to blossom again...

It will be good to see a new beginning to the constitution.
I mean I was a die hard democrat hate republicans kind of guy, until it dawned me hey it's true, Why do we send millions and billions for Aids research to other nations... Some people may think oh it's heartless not to endorse such a plan...
Actually people like Ron Paul are not saying you cannot do it as such he's just saying it's unfair to use tax dollars to do that there are many people opposed to it so their rights are respected too...
Hmmmm and the views about abortion gay marriages state issues, it will be different in different states really reflects the demographics of America...again
ingenious...
I also see the spirit of Christ working in Ron Paul allot more than with those other guys peace and a very good new year indeed!.

[Tess101]

Don thank you for this write up. WOW! Double digits for Ron Paul. I am sure the old media is beside themselves now, especially after saying he was a longshot for so long and would never get double digits. Foxnews/ABC has no reason or excuse to exclude Ron Paul from their New Hampshire debates and Forum scheduled for this weekend. Since Giuliani had such a poor showing in Iowa I believe he is the one that will be excluded. Ron Paul meets the set criteria that Foxnews/ABC made for candidates to be included in their New Hampshire Debates and Forum as printed earlier this week. Ron Paul surpassed Rudy, now that is a true victory. Ron Paul has raised enough in donations (19.5 million-4th qtr) to keep going for the long haul. Now we are off to New Hampshire for a much stronger showing of support. Huckabeen has had his 15 minutes of fame, it's time for the Ron Paul Revolution.

[liberteebell]

Ron Paul for the long haul!!!

[Jake]

Agreed.

Guiliani wasn't competing in Iowa, so beating him is nice but not too significant.

What is significant is that Paul supporters showed up: 10% of an entire state's republicans. The Iowa caucus is no straw poll (of which Ron Paul has been winning many). It shows Paul's support is fervent but not limited to a small "core" of support. There are easily thousands like that in every state.

Also, Paul had WOMEN show up!... in a ratio of 11:8, men to women. So there are some!

Not to mention that Paul pulled in over 50% of the voters who were "ANGRY" about Bush and 21% of the 18-27 age bracket. This means Paul is clearly the Republican's youth candidate, their disaffected, anti-republican Republican candidate, and generally just a solid, very much in-the-running, candidate.

Lastly, a mere 200-300 votes behind McCain and Thompson. That's pretty impressive. This means Paul can be called a "long-shot" and a "kook" but never outright dismissed as less of a candidate than any of the top 6 Republicans... at least until February 5th.

It was not a bad day in Iowa.

[Weston J. Kathman]

Maybe Iowans have caught on to the fact that Giuliani is a total fascist who will amp up the police state like nothing we've seen since Franklin Roosevelt started throwing Japanese Americans in internment camps (and Giuliani might do even worse things, for all we know). Looking at all of the "top tier" candidates of both parties -- and trying to keep from losing one's lunch in the process -- it is clear that all of them think they are running for dictator. There doesn't seem to be any area of your life they don't want to control, whether it be your wallet, your health, your guns, etc. That is why so many people -- many more than the corporate-controled, propaganda-peddling mainstream news media are willing to tell us -- support Ron Paul. He is a once-in-a-hundred years candidate who believes in something for which every other politician at the national level has nothing but contempt: individual freedom. There are still a few Americans left who, having overcome the brainwashing to which they were subjected in the centers of state worship known as our schools, don't want the government to do anything but leave us alone, and leave the rest of the world alone as well. Dr. Paul is the only candidate since Barry Goldwater -- and Paul far surpasses Goldwater -- who champions these principles. That is precisely why there has been a virtual blackout of him in much of the media. Despite his stance against the big-money interests, particularly the bankers and the military industrial complex, Dr. Paul still managed to raise more money in one day than anyone else has ever done. There is a reason for that and it has a lot more to do with freedom than the internet.

[Mark A Smith]

Ron Paul WON JEFFERSON COUNTY! ;-)

[Matthew Grose]

Way to go Jefferson County, Iowa! Ron Paul - winner in Jefferson county! Way to stand up and make a difference. There is hope for America after all.

Ron Paul 2008 - let's make it happen!

[Less Antman]

I continue to be impressed with the fairness of Top of the Ticket, especially in the light of a rather boisterous display of incivility by some Ron Paul supporters in the early days of coverage.

I don't always agree with the analyses, but the thoughtfulness behind them is always evident. Thanks, Don.

[Nick]

So, let me get this straight. Ron Paul wins Jefferson County, presumably named after Thomas Jefferson, whom Ron Paul is more like than any of the other candidates. Maybe the people in Jefferson County actually understand what their namesake stood for and they voted in kind. Good for them.

[Denise White]

Thank you LA Times for giving Ron Paul some very well deserved and objective coverage. It seems most of the players in mainstream media are pretending Ron Paul doesn't exist. The truth cannot be denied forever. Go Ron Paul, Go!

[Tyler Nixon]

What Don points out here is something I believe many Ron Paul supporters believed would happen.

But it is not so much Dr. Paul's revenge (Dr. Paul is not like that) as it is Rudy Giuliani's self-inflicted come-uppance.

After Rudy's rudeness to Ron Paul in a couple of debates last year two other GOP candidates followed suit (calculatedly so to my mind).

Huckabee confronted Dr. Paul with the essential implication that our government's wars abroad are not to be stopped by the people of our nation, but born by them without question simply because our government started them in our names and our "honor" must be vindicated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKn_DigW9Js

McCain chided Congressman Paul as an isolationist of the variety that gave rise to Hitler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTj3STZqviY

Giuliani got his come-uppance.

Perhaps McCain and Huckabee are due.

[K Russell]

CNN would not even list Ron Paul on the PIE Chart on last nights coverage. They left him and Giuliani off of it. They did not even mention him the entire time I watched. Amazing. Even his hometown paper the Houston Chronicle puts a stinging spin on it.

[million]

Rudy's actually at 3%, 4013 votes for Rudy out of 116,119 votes = 3.46% which is rounded DOWN to 3% or 3 1/2% if you want to get "technical." but this is w/ just 96% of precincts reporting. Ron's at a solid 9.99% which is a lot closer to 10% than Rudy is to 4%.

:-)