Ron Paul gets some revenge

An easily overlooked aspect of the Iowa caucuses -- Ron Paul not only besting Rudy Giuliani, but doing so by more than 2-to-1 -- sparked a trip down memory lane for us.

It was mid-May, and the former mayor of New York was riding high following one of the early debates among the Republican presidential candidates. The primo sound bite had been a snap to identify: Giuliani's outraged, impassioned reply to Paul's assertion that U.S. foreign policy, especially the periodic bombing of Iraq in the aftermath of 1991's Gulf War, was to blame for the Sept. 11 attacks.

Giuliani, not waiting to be called upon, seized the moment by terming Paul's comment "an extraordinary statement" and urging the Texas congressman to retract it (which Paul did not).

To give Paul his due, even in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 -- when the emotional response to the assault was at its rawest -- serious scholars had begun hashing over the role played by American policy in the Mideast, particularly long-standing support for Israel, in fueling Islamic extremism and hatred for the U.S. But in the format of a candidate debate -- where rhetorical zingers count far more than lengthy discourse -- Paul's remark amounted to a grooved fast ball down the middle, and the consensus at the time was that Giuliani parked it.

As MSNBC's online political note put it at the time, Giuliani may want to "hire out Paul for the campaign trail -- he could be the Washington Generals to Rudy's Globetrotters" (i.e., the patsy willing to get beaten in every game).

That was then, this is now. In Iowa, Paul, 10%; Giuliani, 4%.

-- Don Frederick

Comments

[Yukon Dave]

Look at the source data as of 10:01 pm PST. Ron Paul may be 5th but 253 votes separate 3rd, 4th and 5th

1. Mike Huckabee 5,635
2. Mitt Romney 3,163
3. John McCain 1,853
4. Fred Thompson 1,842
5. Ron Paul 1,600
6. Rudy Giuliani 418
7. Duncan Hunter 44
8. Alan Keyes 20

We currently have 1749 Counties/Precincts in our system, with
54.49% of precincts reporting in.
The total number of votes cast thus far: 14,575

[Duane Maddy]

Here's a few things people are overlooking. Dr. Paul didn't put a lot of money into Iowa. Evangelicals vote for evangelicals without looking at the message or policy. New Hampshire and Wyoming will be a different story. He picked up 2 delegates tonight without a whole lot of effort. The third place finishers only picked up one more than him. Not bad for a "fringe" candidate that doesn't stand a chance!

[Paul]

Right on Don Frederick. This article is a nice, grooved fast ball down the middle. A+++++++

[frank]

actually, Giuliani is 3.46% (which is usually rounded down to 3% since it's less than half the way to four)

RP08!

[Patrick Henry]

Ron Paul's supporters have always known that Iowa was a tough state. The same straw polls that have shown Ron Paul winning most states also showed 5th place in Iowa. So this is an awesome victory today!!! 10% AND beating Giuliani. And lets not buy this "Giuliani wasn't even trying" stuff. He didn't try because he knew it was a tough state for him, just like Ron Paul. At least we tried and got 10%!! Go Ron Paul!

[Richard Brodie]

No meaningful conclusions can be drawn by comparing Ron Paul's showing negatively to Huckabee, for whom Iowa is merely a fluke, nor positively to Giuliani who wasn't campaigning in Iowa.

The important thing is that in the last several weeks he has shot up FIVEFOLD from 2 to 10 percent. And even MORE significant is that tonight Mitt Romney, even with all his name recognition and free media hype, only received somewhat more than double the number of votes Paul did, instead of twelve times as many, as would have been the case had the contest been held when Paul was still at 2 per cent.

This election season is often compared to a horse race, and I see a certain dark horse closing pretty damn fast on the front runners!

[Brian]

Cant wait to see how Dr Paul does in New Hampshire. Think he'll gain a couple positions there. Great to see Julie Annie get put in his place tonight. He has no business being president.

[Aakash]

Go Ron Go!

[Matt, Alabama]

Hey Rudy, SCOREBOARD sucker.

Please don't implant a chip in me if you somehow do win though...

Thanks for the blog post.

[Outside observer from Canada]

Wow, I'm really surprised to see someone in the media actually giving Dr. Paul some credit. From an estimated four percent to ten percent in a week is quite a huge jump.

Most of the mainstream media around the world seem to be mentioning Guiliani (4% of the vote) and neglecting to mention Dr. Paul (10%)

Nice job in the objectivity department, LA Times!

[Joshua Wise]

I am glad Mr. Frederick fielded this one. Otherwise the headline might be, "Ron Paul loses miserably, Giuliani shrugs" If this isn't the end, it's the begining of a very large change in American politics, that might last decades.

[Brenda]

Well-made point and you're right about Paul's significant victory over Giuliani being easily overlooked. But not by us Paul supporters. I take note and am encouraged. Nearly every day I run into someone who has not yet heard of Ron Paul or doesn't know much about him. In less than 15 minutes of summing up his positions, most people become very interested in him, go on to check him out more thoroughly and become Ron Paul supporters themselves. The caucus showed that Ron Paul indeed has more support than the traditional polls show, and I expect this support to continue to grow.

[Jen Lewis]

10% is just the beginning for the Champion of the Constitution! Once the dirt starts flying on the Huckster, Mitt, and McCain, and some of them can't finance their campaigns any longer, the tides will turn and liberty will prevail. New Hampshire is fertile territory for Ron Paul.

[Tom deSabla]

If he got the ink that Huck got, he might have really made some noise. I wonder how many people in Iowa knew about the San Francisco Republican Alliance straw poll that was canceled at the last second to keep Paul from winning?

Very few, I'll bet. With the media basically ignoring him whenever they can, while constantly talking about his rivals, 10 percent isn't bad at all, especially in a non-libertarian state like Iowa. Also, he was the only candidate other than Huckabee and Romney to actually carry a county - Jefferson County.

[SkepticTexan]

I write this with extreme caution, as my hatred of the LA Times for crimes upon those that will go *Unnamed* --
thanks.
Batter up.
1-2-3-4
Who's knockin' at yer door?

:)
LIBERTY AND FREEDOM FOR ALL

[Kate Lesley]

Hi. I have to say that I watched the debate that you mention and I wonder often how it is that we all see things so differently. You see, I come from the midwest and maybe that makes my view point a little different, but at the time I was just so pleased to hear Ron Paul say what I considered pretty obvious. He did put a name to it for me ... blow back, but up until then I pretty much had the same idea. Mr. G is pretty much a blow hard. I was thrilled to see him put into his place that night, and that was my take on the situation.

I am also very happy to See that Ron Paul has thwarted him once again.

I think all candidates deserve respect. Hope this earns the Good Doctor his fair share.

[Nicholas Adams]

10% in Iowa for Ron Paul was a victory. Let's not forget that this is the state that saw Mr. Clinton getting 3% of the vote in the caucuses the year he WON and that the year George HW Bush won he got spanked by Bob Dole and Pat Robertson! Iowa is a notoriously "vote your religion not the issues" state, and Paul doesn't wear his religion on his sleeve. Huckajesus was going to be the obvious winner, Romney next because at least he seems religious even if its not the right religion, Thompson next because all the old religious types like his TV show, and McCain next because they can at least recognize him. My prediction? Paul places 2nd in New Hampshire...

[floridaforronpaul]

I just wanted to say that I have not been hearing a lot about the GOP Wyoming caucus coming up on Jan 5th. But reading about it online, it seems as though there are a lot of Dr. Paul supporters out there. I hope that our campaign can pay a bit of attention to Wyoming as well. I was a bit sad with the results but I know we can do better.

[Andre]

Mike Huckabee said "the way to end the (Iraq) war is to win it". Huckabee has made this statement quite a few times. COULD SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME what Huckabee plans to 'win' in Iraq. Why hasn't a journalist questioned him on this? Americans would figure out Huckabee (unlike Ron Paul) has NO foreign policy.

A true Christian wouldn't be so hypocritical & deceptive as Mike Huckabee has been. A true Christian wouldn't use religious symbols for personal gain like MIke Huckabee has done. And true Christians shouldn't be supporting such a dishonorable man like Mike Huckabee.

It's truly amazing what you can get away with in American politics when you wrap yourself with the American flag and you hold up a cross. Maybe these Evangelicals should take their head out of the bible and actually ask a few questions and do a bit of research on the candidate before they vote. Haven't they learned anything from this horrible nightmare called Bush.

The only presidential candidate who talks about peace is Ron Paul. Not only does he sound like a true Christian, but he the only one who acts like one too! "Ye shall know them by the fruits of their labor"

[Tom]

Make that 29 to 1.

As in the Score among INDEPENDENTS = Ron 29 / Rudy 1

Rudy "Mr. Electable" nearly gets skunked and Ron Paul, the real Big Tent Republican, takes the day among the Independents who are the KEY to winning any general election. If you want to TRUTHFULLY talk about electability, the discussion starts and ends with Ron Paul in the Republican Party.

According to Exit Polls, Paul won Independents by a commanding margin:

Paul - 29%
JM - 23%
MR - 19%
MH - 17%
FT - 8%
RG - 1%
HT - 0%

[Mark Eibner]

Bravo Ron Paul. We have one of the first true "Statesmen" running for president against bought and sold politicians. Go Ron Paul 2008.

[amir]

I like Ron Paul and many of his ideas, but he has no chance of becoming president. It's a protest vote from the libertarian part of the Republican party, just like Huckabee is a protest vote from the Christian segment of the party.

It seems like the Republicans are tearing the party apart between Christian conservatives, fiscal hawks, defense hawks, and libertarians. This coalition worked for a long time under Reagan, but it's falling apart at the seams now.

[Rick Fisk]

I can't help but be a little disappointed. But interestingly enough things could change even in Iowa by the time the delegates are actually selected. Not that I'm counting on this.

I do expect much better in NH. Huckabee is a scary man. He's so slick. But I don't think he can sustain his campaign. He has no cash.

I think that Ron Paul's campaign needs to analyze the results, look at the counties where they did well and compare that to the efforts of their volunteers and staffers.

For instance, did the hand-written letters have an impact? The Phone banks? The canvassing? The radio ads? Pick the things that produced results and carry those through to the next states. There are still 49 to go. Dr. Paul is right, it isn't the end, it's the beginning.

[infojunkie]

Not only did RP beat Giuliani by almost 3-to-1 (with 96% of precincts reporting), we beat him in every county except Cass County. We came in second in a few counties, and WON Jefferson. Woohoo! Go, Ron Paul!

County-level results:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21228645/

[SkepticTexan]

My summation-
The NeoCons have taken over the party, using the Apocalypse as a tool to dig oil. Like the land of milk and honey they rapeth uipon the ultimate bearings of the tender of the wheat in the lands of the desolate.
They steal they lie they cheat, they try to win.
The NEO-LIBERALS, conversely, have suceeded in TAKING from the hand outstretched. The NeoCIones STEAL, the NeoLibs hold up the hand of the theif.
THIS will be their downfall.
HUBRIS.
if we see it for what it is= if we look around and see the bullets flying about our heads, we can DUCK.
If only Dick would have said those words...
things would have been different.