Graffiti in schools

Teacher Antero Garcia's post about using graffiti in the classroom and in school-sponsored activities has drawn some wide-ranging comments. As he said, the response at a conference went from loathing to enthusiasm. Of course, many students are experts in graffiti -- as consumers or creators.

But one reader wondered whether the students were well-versed in politics or current events, and another asked whether they were sufficiently educated in the basics.

What do you think? Does graffiti have a role in schools? What is that role?

Share your thoughts.

-- Mary MacVean

Comments

[Fremont High social studies teacher]

Does graffiti have a role? Sure. The kids who are responsible for it should be forced to clean it up and their parents fined a few hundred dollars for the trouble.

You know,I bet LAUSD- which I happen to teach in and which does in fact have a 50% drop out rate- is the only district having such an absurd conversation.

I can bet that surrounding districts such as Montebello, Downey and others have figured out that instead of debating graffiti as part of the curriculum, they should actually make school relevant to both those kids who are academically motivated and those with a more vocational bent. They aren't offering sewing and manicuring classes, relics of education from 100 years ago. They are offering a real auto shop class, vocational nursing and a full slate of BOTH honors and AP classes.

And parents who want their kids to be successful aren't legitimizing graffiti. They are telling their kids to be responsible, go to college and become a better person. But that is the rub. The kids who tag are generally those with ineffective, absent or irresponsible parents.

So Antero, instead of legitimizing graffiti as part of some sort of culture, why don't you examine the pain the associated gang violence causes of which graffiti is just a symptom. Just ask Jamiel Shaw's parents if they think that the graffiti of the gang that snuffed out the life of their son is "relevant."

By the way, I thought you might like to see the difference in wages for a Registered Nurse and a graffiti "artist."

Graffiti "artist" wages for his "art" = 500 dollar fine 1 st offense plus cost to clean up the property that was tagged. He can also be sent to jail for up to 6 months.

Registered Nurse salary in California = about 70,000 to 95,000 dollars a year+ benefits+ tuition reimbursement+ retirement.

To me, what is relevant for schools to be teaching is very clear. Obviously to you, and those downtown sitting in offices much nicer than my classroom, it is not.

I bet that working class and middle class kids are laughing reading this post about graffiti and thanking their parents for reading to them, taking them to museums, teaching them how to responsibly manage money and making sure they graduate.
Fortunately, I tend to teach the upper grades so I get the kids with generally more responsible parents. The others have usually dropped out by the 10th grade, unable to participate in the graffiti lessons you are planning.

[Captain Dan Stillmanks]

Graffiti is NOT art--it is vandalism--FELONY vandalism and is NOT acceptable on public walls, stop signs, mail boxes, curbs, etc.
Last year an elderly grandma was shot to death by graffiti artists in Hesperia,CA. Thugs, crooks.
Spray paint cannot even legally be purchased by anyone under 18. Thanks, now I have to wait for the clerk to unlock the paint case--meanwhile, gang banger "Johnny's" over -18 friends/parents buy paint for him. The graffiti is meaningless--no one understands the scrawls except the gangsta's If I wrote "GO HOME gang bangers" that would be a 'hate crime' and immediately eradicated from public view--but the graffiti goes on and on and on.
Ridiculous and criminal to teach this crap in school.
And seriously now,
P.S. Could some graffiti artist write and tell us exactly WHAT they use--I write signs on my 5-acre ranch and the sun bleaches the words out--so I could use a "tip" as to what painting/ink to use so it doesn't fade!

[Lisa Engelbrecht]

You absolutely must include lettering in high school curriculum. I am a lettering artist and instructor in calligraphy, teaching locally at Cerritos college, now I teach internationally and work for American Greetings. I see the notebooks they fill with the most inventive lettering around-they are crying out for instruction, guidance, a place to express themselves. Like it or not the kids will continue to express themselves illegally unless we adults provide them with a space to create and grow. To punish creativity seems counter productive-part of the high of tagging is the difficulty factor-but more importantly its a chance to impress and belong and these are questions much bigger than can be solved with a criminal record. If you dont attempt to understand the reasons for graffitti then you cannot stop it. Creative solutions are the key. My new book, Modern Mark Making from Rockport Quarry features a chapter on street lettering-I'm looking forward to organizing a local event with my calligraphy being introduced to the local writers-a meeting of Old School and the new. You can see the influences of Graff on t shirts and advertising everywhere-its time for the originators to get their due on their inventions. This could be the opening we need to show that mainstream markets are ready for this new crop of artists.Thank you for running this thread!!

[Marilyn Allen]

As long as the artist is using a canvas he owns, he can create his/her art. However, the graffiti artist rarely paints on a surface he owns. It is always someones else's house, bridge, office building, etc. Do they teach morals in this class?

[Greg Haines]

Grafffiti is one of the worst behaviors in society. It is vandalism, but also a gang and crime indicator. Not only does it destroy property at a huge cost to taxpayers, but it is indicative of crime and gang activity and lawlessness. A clear sign that our civilization is not focused on values that keep a society safe and working together. Punishment for this offense to society should be very severe (years in prison for parent and offender) to set an example. This is the only way to control gangs and crime, by stopping the dueling gang turf wars. We must see graffiti as gang leaders ruleing over society.

[Arcadian]

What does it gain??? Nothing!!!! Graffiti should be taught NOWHERE, when school starts promoting it in classes or after school, then the KIDS will think its okay to graffiti wherever they want. Do what Iran does to graffiti artists when caught "they cut off a finger" that'll teach something. I dont see what they benefit from any of this. The school should be liable for encouraging anyform of vandalism. THIS IS NOT ART!! GRAFFITI IS NOT ART!!
Lets get that straight. when its on canvas its called ART! not on a building thats advertising. which is another thing that should be banned! Why dont people see this, is our world so messed up they cannot perceive any of this??

[Truth Teller]

Graffiti controversial, you bet !

Graffiti, "throw ups", tags, pieces ETC. for the most part VICTIMIZE real people and society. Have you ever come out of your house or showed up at your business to find your wall or garage door that you have not only invested money but your time to maintain covered in "art"?

I would wager that a segment of the student population is expert at mugging, armed robbery and drive-by shooting does that mean that the school and teachers should validate that behavior by incorporating those skills into a curriculum.? After all, there is no skill that cannot be practiced with artistry and flair. There is a book called the "Art of Killing" should this also be part of the curriculum for children and teens?

The incorporation of "Graffiti Artists" IE professional vandals or in other words criminals, in this seminar is evidence in the lowering of all standards of behavior in society. Is the fact that these "artists' at the minimum started their "careers" victimizing innocent property owners and that this "art" encourages young people to victimize without concern for their actions not clear proof that this kind of behavior should not be encouraged.

One is not and cannot be a leader by befriending or pandering to bad behavior. One is a leader by gaining the respect and maintaining a relationship with appropriate distance and subordination of the group to the leader. In other words teachers cannot be friends or enablers of criminal activity and then expect that their students are going to buckle down and study instead of following their baser impulses to goof-off or go out tagging.

The use of graffiti in school sponsored extra curricular activities is not only educational malpractice but should be investigated as contributing to the delinquency of minors.

The more I am exposed to the realities if the dysfunctional LAUSD system, the more I am convinced that many of its employees should be jailed or at the minimum barred from contact with children.

[Charlie Tuna]

You're right in that graffiti isn't going away anytime soon. In fact, any sign, using or printed with any font, is a form of graffiti, as are rock pictographs, pictoglyphs, hieroglyphics, and more. All are placed to force the viewer to read it and interpret the message.

However, to teach it as a class subject, one should go full spectrum. Namely:

a] teach finance and how money and investments work.
b] rights of property owners.
c] role of property taxes on a state and local level.
d] judicial and criminal penalties for illegal behavior.
e] role of graffiti through the ages, and variances by culture.
f] types of graffiti, and meanings.
g] modern urban street art.
h] gang vernacular and meanings, along with why gangs use graffiti.
i] methods of font development used in graffiti, whether gang type or tagger type.
j] techniques, use of sketch books, layout, caps, aerosols.
k] earning an income from one's artistic hobby.
l] what it takes to remove or paint out graffiti, including techniques, costs, types, and inabilkity to fully restore marred property back to original appearance one graffiti is placed.
m] community liveability issues surround graffiti prone areas.

there are those that can harp on the subject all they want, but bickering and forceful opinions aren't going to change things. The only this that will change the future will be an education that explores all the details, and once the property owner or potential vandal has the right kind of knowledge, then the likelihood of change can happen.

Personally, I deal with graffiti every working day. I have met many vandals in court as part of criminal or civil prosecution. Most teenagers and older college students really don't comprehend the ramifications of graffiti, because they don't understand how money works, what investments are, and how the criminal record will curtail many future opportunities for them; mostly because no one took the time to teach them. Indeed, most working class adults don't even know enough about finances to get out of the hole either, much less manage their own finances appropriately.

[Ellen kaminer-Gigger]

Re: graffitti in schools.
In the early 1980s, when I started teaching at San Fernando H.S., there was much excitement generated by a new urban phenomenon called "bombing."
Many were repulsed by it - as they are today by it's descendant form, graffitti - and the desecration of private property.
Nothing's changed except that it is rampant.
I think it is to art what sociopaths are to society.

[Roger Beerworth]

Absolutely, Mr. Garcia. I understand graffiti can be very positive. I have read so many times on the pages of this paper. Well, I suppose there are a few negatives (tens of millions in public expense, quality of life, maybe some lives lost), but anything to help with the children's self esteem.

As long as we're teaching criminal (such a judgmental concept anyway) activities in your school, may I also suggest: Drive by shooting - hand eye coordination,
Embezzlement/Robbery - math skills, the list could be endless.

The city is fortunate to have such "progressive" teachers in their employ as you and Mr. Gomez.

[Fremont High Social Studies teacher]

Really, you don't think that a working class person can manage their budget? They have to otherwise they won't eat. Unlike our President, they weren't born with a trust fund.
The kids don't need to be educated about graffiti, they need parents with values that will prevent them from ever engaging in that behavior in the first place.
No class need be taught on the topic. We need that time for far more valuable classes.

The problem is that for the last twenty five years we have had leaders in power with attitudes like yours- looking down on working class and middle class people as if their problem was that they can't manage their money when in fact their economic footing has been systematically dismantled by a free trade, neocon agenda, forcing them to take multiple jobs and preventing many from spending the time with their kids that would help prevent the aforementioned behavior. Those with slightly more training and education have moved out to somewhat better schools where the values of a larger majority are more community-oriented.
I can illustrate this example perfectly. The school I student taught at was a few miles outside the urban core. Teachers could and did leave their laptops out on their desks and doors open while they were at meetings or just away for a few minutes. There were never any thefts. This was not a wealthy community.
It's not about knowledge and graffiti classes. it's about VALUES.

[Roger Salinas]

Mr. Garcia,
As an educator,it is your charge to give these students a formal education for a productive adult life. Graffiti is is not productive nor formal. A "throw up" or a series of letters spray painted in the middle of the night on a bridge or someone else's property is criminal vandalism, pure and simple. It does not add to the aesthetic value of our community.

Teach your students the art of the printed academic word. Serious study will place them in a position, as adults, with far more CHOICES than a "graffiti artist".
Roger Salinas, retired school principal

[Christopher]

I think it's a great idea. We need to create a curriculum not only relevant to the current times, but ALSO TO THE STUDENTS.

"Street art" is a style. And while purists would say that "graffiti" necessarily has an element of breaking the law, I think that plenty of kids could find relevance in a legal version of the art.

What, should art teachers fail students because their final project is done with spraypaint, in wild style? Arguments of the artform's value/relevance often sound to me like orders to "get off my lawn, you damn kids!" It's a symptom of a generation afraid of change to be so hostile to something that clearly has intrinsic creative worth.

Along with this, graffiti is a cultural phenomenon. It's a vast and rich subculture - a sociologist's dream and shows very little signs of slowing. Banksy is practically an English folk hero for youth around the world, and his works (while illegal) are serious, thoughtful social criticisms. We need to distinguish between ugly and horrible gang graffiti and the works of true artists that happen to be outpouring their expressions through illegal means.

I am NOT saying that it is okay to break the law. But art can find its roots in the clandestine and posturing work of troubled youth, and come out on the other side (with the proper guidance) to be a powerful thing of beauty.

[St. Caje]

Mr. Garcia,
Can they use your house, inside and out, as a practice run for these "artists"? And if your neighbors agree, maybe they can use their house as a canvas. And then let's see what happens to your neighborhood. In our neighborhood, we are in constant battle with these vandals/criminals. If I were you, I would use my resources to help out those City agencies who clean the graffiti. Or teach these kids the techniques to clean them up and/or come up with a surface solution so when graffiti shows up, they can easily be washed out.
Your credentials should be revoked for suggesting this class. You should teach morals, values of good character and the consequences of criminal activities.
I sometimes wonder how we arrived at this juncture in our society. We lost our compass. We lost track of our common sense and what is right/wrong.

[laura vasquez]

We should cut off their index finger for the first offense and their thumb for the second offense. This is an example of teaching to the lowest common denominator .

[Sos]

Art is not a crime! Why not teach graffiti art in school? It's part of our culture, especially in urban areas, and it IS NOT going to go away. The harder people fight against it, the more glamorous it will be to all the TRUE taggers out there. They see it as a way to express themselves and comment on society. They look at feeble attempts at "erradicating" graffiti as even more of a challenge.

It's so disturbing to hear about people wanting to cut index fingers off, or jailing these artists for longer scentences than rapist recieve. All of that blather just leads to more graff commentary. You think they're being ridiculous and destructive. Maybe it's time to look in the mirror.

Graffiti Never Dies!!!
Sos
www.bmdez.com

[Denise Billings]

Antero Garcia,

NO,NO,NO to graffiti. I have been riding my bicycle on the Orange Line bus path in the San Fernando Valley since it was first built. It was lovely at the beginning. Beautiful flowers all along the miles, vines planted on the walls.

Then the graffiti started. The city owned walls were filled with it. Now there has to be a graffiti removal every week or so. The private property owners don't remove their graffiti, they may not know it is there, I don't know, but I do know that it is a terrible eyesore.

The city tried to beautify the route and the taggers came along and undid it all. With no regard to others' property. Others' enjoyment of the natural beauty. Every accessible surface is covered. Even the street signs and traffic lights. I do not understand why these young people think this is OK. It is not OK.

Teaching it in school will encourage them to think it is OK to deface other people's private property. Hard earned property. Please rethink this idea. Please just don't do it.

[Mark Gomez]

civics, current events, social responsibility, public policy and political processes... which ones am i not allowed to include in my social studies classroom in a culturally relevant, literacy building, and critically thinking way?

http://www.ed4change.com/?p=35

my students are engaging in an exploration of their communities, one that might allow them to redefine what their community identity is and how it should be self prescribed thru critical analysis... not uniformed generalizations and social definitions that are too taboo for serious examination...

not once will i be condoning illegal behavior, justifying, glorifying, legitimizing, nor encouraging behavior that will jeopardize my students' opportunities for education... yet the education they will be a part of will always be a process that is engaging, informative, and constructive... aligning with my content standards, building both literacy and critical thinking skills.

if politicians and adult community members cannot even get their minds around this issue then at least my students (the future policy makers and community definers) should begin to practice looking at issues that affect them in depth...

[LA resident]

Hey, SOS are you going to encourage your own children to do this? Have you ever considered that "your culture" is causing good people to leave the city? You obviously don't care.
Just out of curiousity, will it be more of a priority to teach your children to read, or continue your "culture?" Because your children won't be able to rise above poverty if graffiti becomes their career. Obviously your parents failed to do their job. Thus you perpetuate the culture of the underclass who perpetuate most of the crime in the city. Today, I read that a prolific tagger got 1 year in jail and must pay thousands of dollars to clean up the mess he made. Hope he enjoys his time.

[john freter]

Graffiti as a classroom subject legitmizes a criminal act: defacing private or public property.
Taggers are, at best, carrying out a practice similar to dogs and other animals marking their territory with urine. The difference from graffiti is that animal urine does not deface and easily washes away or biodegrades. If graffiti is art in the minds of educators, let the walls of schools be the pallets for their sprayer-students.

[the photographer]

There are two distinct types here, and IMHO two approaches.

One is aptly named "throw up". It is simple territorial marking, a bunch of letters claiming ownership. These should be covered/washed as soon as possible. It has no beauty and promotes violence.

The other is artistic. It takes more than seconds to create, limiting somewhat the artist's ability to put it where it is not wanted. It uses color and wit and motifs.

Taggers--don't paint where you're not wanted. Have something more to say than 'I was here, I belong to this crew and this place belongs to me'--because it doesn't, and you've just ruined someone's day. Make people like me want to photograph your tag and put it online, so it will live on long after it's been painted over.

[cream of the crop]

i bet all the blogger are over 30 years old......old people will never understand graffitti , hip hop... i remember in 1990 when all the old folks bashed rap music...well its still here 18 years later..now there kids listen to it now, they play it during major sporting events, grammys,music award shows...my point is graffitti no going any where since the cave men wrote in the caves till now nothing going to change...if you can take a class at your local gym on hip hop dancing then ,then you can take a class on street art !!! all these people are art critics on this blog hahaha....who makes you a jugde on what art is or is not...do you have a degree in art? you have a opion but you don't right..my story i was one of those kids in the 90's who painted, i had skills but no education... an older graffitti artist saw my skills and educated me on how to market, sell , free lance work..not how to paint your home or your garage door, he also showed me colors,shading,ink,water color, air brush ect...i went to the navy 8 years. study computers & art.i now make $80,000.00 to 100,000 a year design graffitti on clothes, skate boards,logo, shoes, music covers, video games, music videos, church youth group,sport team, i even design stuff for the lapd and miltary to target the youth....(The future) look around around you in tv , music, graffitti present...it a big money.. i just designed logo's for boost moble, verizon, and for fuel tv...i guess what i'm saying is if a kid got skills why not sharpin them and teach them how to make money doing, i'm mature now and don't think it's right to write on someone home...( i own a home and 2 buisness buildings) but i think education is better than throwing a kid in jail and putting into the prison system..that all you people want to don't throw people in jail....like a blogger said most graffitti artist are young single family kids..the just want attention....help out ..hear them out...ask why?...what can you do to help...find them a school..military...or a job.... not jail...you guys a closin schools and building more jails....you don't help the problem you lock them up and now you have career thugs..you old folks should should just worry about your social sec. its time for the next generation to take over..you will never undestand graffitti art if you like to our work- seventh letter-..(google it) we are world wide sucessful ,young graffitti artist,veterns,family men..good products of the world...it make me laugh that you wanted to lock me up as a kid.. now look at me now ! graffitti saved my life.....

[Disgusted in south LA]

Grafitti might have saved your life, but it's helping to kill other young people and blighting neighborhoods. It is parents' responsibility to instill love of education in their kids. If you can't be a good parent, then don't have kids.

If your parents would have done their jobs, you would not have needed grafitti to "save your life."
Oh, yes, and being over 30 is just soooo bad. Just wait till you get there.

We don't want to throw people in jail, we want them to stop glamorizing a thug lifestyle that disrepects women and education.

Go to good school districts and you won't find grafitti around them. Why? Because the communities won't tolerate it. They refuse to be held hostage by gangsters and thugs who come from ignorant parents.

[Disgusted in south LA]

Mr. Gomez, you can teach all those values while actually making a difference. Did you know that most of these students come from homes that treat animals poorly and that the South L.A. Animal Shelter is filled with disposable pets being euthanized every day while families breed dogs at home?
Why not take those values of community and compassion and SOLVE a community problem while educating the population in proper pet care. It would be far more useful than teaching about grafitti. This would fit all the topic criteria you layed out above.

A pet with a euthanasia needle in its arm is not an "uninformed generalization." It's a tragedy caused by misplaced priorities. This community has real problems and needs real solutions. Not poser ones.

Your education speak is typical. of teachers who come out of certain university credential programs or degrees. I made sure to never allow it to penetrate my psyche.

[cream of the crop]

graffitti not killing anyone...people kill people....and my mom did do her job...i own a house..military veteran..family man..buisness owner..educated young man never been arrested......let me school you again for you know not what you speak of....parents across world jobs are too teach there kids whats right..but a kid has a choice at the end of the day...we teach our kids to marry and have a family...yet some turn gay...is that the parents fault? we teach our kids not to drink ,do drugs,or have kids out of a marrage...yet i bet someone in your family drinks or used drugs..we all have one in our familys ...now is that your moms fault???you don,t blame people ..u help !!! if your not going to help or try somthing new..shut the hell up and stay locked up in your home...we all know lausd is failing ,it's scores our the lowest in the nation...is that the teachers and parents fault too??oh ..and about love and peace parents instill to there kids...mind got washed out when our president bush sent me to go kill people in the middle east...along with 900,000 young people who served in this war...you don't know how this world works till you been to war in another country...your worried about gangsta rap and women rights...you should go to iraq and talk to those women..you have it made in the usa...freedom!!!! freedom to music freedom to express my street art...freedom to raise my kids the way i want i fought for my freedom and pay taxes...did you??i got a degree in art... do u?i would love to talk to all the taggers out their and help guide them to a job..and maybe that what mr garcia tryin to do...u guys hear the word "teach graffitti" and think negative..think outside the box for once in your life old folks...its not 1960's,1970's...its 2008 the days of hippies ,sex ,drug and rock'n'roll are gone..skater kid , video gamers,hip hop,graffitti kids is the cool thing now...here is one more fact most kids stop doing graffitti at 18 ,19 yrs old it's something young kids do, you don't hear of 25 - 30 men taggin, they will grow out of it..its like putin fire crackers in mail boxes,throwin eggs at someone house.or puttin toilet paper on someone car..its things most young kids do growing up..its not right and it's not the parent faults it's just kids being kids..and we just got to help them and explain..not lock them up and lockup the parents...every young generation is differtent..follow the times or you'll be stuck in the 60's and 70's....and when i'm a old fart like you guys, i'm not going to bash the youth like you do!!!!! i'll help them

[disgusted in south L.A.]

Just kids being kids??? How come we didn't do that when we were kids? Tagging is not normal behavior for kids- it is an aberration. By the way, your grammar and spelling are a perfect indictment of what we are talking about- misplaced priorities.

And while grown men "might grow out of it," they do much damage to the community in their teen years.

I certainly am not going to use the treatment of Iraqi women as a litmus test for women's freedom here. So you are saying that somehow I should be grateful for not being treated like an Iraqi woman?!! Please. The 60's and 70's that you despise is what got women their rights- and we intend to keep them and not be disrespected.

What does the illegal Iraq war have to do with anything?

[Mr. Masada]

Alot of people are getting confused with the graffiti culture and the gang-type culture. Everybody assumes that EVERYTHING on the walls are gang-related. They're not. Many young teens put up their "nick-names" on walls for fame. The more a person puts up their name on a wall, the more fame they get. This fame gives teens respect from others, and everyone wants respect. Many artists from the 80's and 90's even have worldwide fame in the graffiti culture, such as Saber, Revok, Atlas etc. They are inspiration to young teens, and even heroes. I'm not saying its a good thing, just explaining a bit more why teens do this.

[cream of the crop]

attack my spelling all you want..i know how to spell my name when i cash my check this week from verizon wireless $$15,000.00..........i notice you live disgusting south la...why don't you move? i live in agoura hills ..i see no graffitti here...maybe you don't make enough.$$$$...you sure made a good choice....south central ..thats where i would love to raise my family..great choice!! and if you really look at the world in general.....(wait let me guess you never been around the world..your still in the hood)....you have more rights than 85% of the world...that i fought for.....did you serve in the military??what have you done for your country??like i said before.....your too old to understand the game...you should worry about your cats and dogs, you dog whisper...and hope you have enough SSI to retire...looks like your generation screwed you there....

[cream of the crop]

mr.msada atlas is no hero........he does the same old style since he was in high school....the only good he done is open up a skateboard shop in alhambra....its not the more they put thier name up...it's the style they have..how original thier work is....the problem is you have guy like saber...aloy...skill..they go piece up a freeway off ramp..lil johnny driving down the freeway with his mom ,see's the nice art work saber did the night before.....goes home try's to copy it not knowing any about graffitti....now thats 80% of the stuff on the walls right now..if some explain and showed these kids and teach them. none of us legends or heros as you called us..respect any of that crap on the walls..i think it looks ugly...i'm not a grammer professor..i'm not a teacher..i don't work in a dog shelter in south LA.... i am a graffitti legend....i know graffitti,it's some thing i've done for 15 years and i make a living doing it ...i don't like how people swear they know about graffitti when they don't know nothing.... what does the iraq war have to do with any thing you ask.........the point i was tryin to make is alot people have stuff to say from behind thier keyboards...but have done nothing to have a opion......i've been to war...i've worked for the goverment for 8 year and did everything they ask me to do...i've seen first hand how are goverment works..i had a top secert clarance....i've seen alot and done alot for this goverment....all you know is what you see on CNN unclassified news..if you really know what was going on in the world you would think outside the box.....(a qoute for my old captian )

[watch that spelling]

That's "clearance" and "goverNment" and I don't think anyone believes you have a top secret clearance, since you can't even spell it. And also that is "captain."
On second thought, maybe it doesn't suprise me that you went to war. The army has certainly lowered its standards and the government doesn't exactly hire rocket scientists.
The armed services has lowered its standards so much in fact that they actually have a grafitti problem in Iraq. That's right- gangsters from here spray painting another nation's walls- and a sovereign nation at that - one that we had no right to invade. No wonder people have such low opinions of Americans. We can't spell, we are arrogant and behave like cretins when we do go to other countries.

[YESENIA LOPEZ]

i like this whole role of graffiti and tagging i think it is very interesting and would like that more shools taught about graffiti and tagging !!! They are just murals!!! ART

[LA is my home]

If they are just murals, then why are people being killed over them. And why are they all over my textbooks? And often why are the same students who tag also the ones who steal?
Can you explain that, Yesenia?