Bleacher report: Who's better, Kobe or LeBron? It's no debate at all.

From the Bleacher Report

In the same manner in which Kobe Bryant was unfairly compared to Michael Jordan in the late '90s, the debate continues with LeBron James being similarly compared to Kobe.

Some fans and pundits have even had the temerity to go as far as saying that James has already surpassed Bryant as a player.

They reinforce their arguments with statistics and the many milestones that James has accomplished at such an early age. Many of these same milestones are marks that Kobe held until James surpassed them.

There are areas of the game where James holds an advantage over Kobe, most noticeably the physical specimen department, but most arguments are based on the potential of James and not his current accomplishments.

The only problem with gazing into the crystal ball is that sometimes the present intervenes and renders all predictions useless. It's much better to live in the present, and based on that, the James argument doesn't hold up.

While James and Bryant are great players, there are some areas that James has yet to catch up, and in some cases, never will.

The part of LeBron's game that has seen the biggest improvement is on the defensive end. He is still a much better help defender than ball defender, but his man-to-man defense is steadily improving.

As a youngster James was able to rely on his superior athletic ability to mask his shortcomings on the defensive end.  He was simply able to overwhelm opponents with his quickness, size, and strength.

It was clear early in his career that he had the proper defensive principles, but he lacked the technique.  His defensive posture was bad, and he had a habit of crossing his feet instead of sliding them.

James has taken steps to correct this and it's evident in his game, as he has become a better on-ball defender, which helps complement his superior ball-hawking skills.

Kobe had no such problem, as he was an excellent defensive player from the time he entered the league.  His man-to-man skills remain superb, and he has the ability to lock down an opponent almost at will.

Bryant was obviously schooled on the importance of defense and that can in part be attributed to his NBA lineage. He recognized the influence that getting stops has on a game and the way it contributes to  momentum swings.

Conversely, James is a product of the AAU circuit and the various summer leagues, which place a low premium on defense and emphasize the highlight aspect of the game.

Michael Jordan's footprints are all over another aspect of Kobe's game, which is sometimes called the lost art of the mid-range jump shot.

It became the most dangerous weapon in Jordan's arsenal, and Bryant has emulated it to the barest degree. His ability to pull up from anywhere within 18 feet has made Bryant one of the most versatile offensive players in NBA history.

This is the part of LeBron's game that could use the most work, as all of his damage is done either from distance or at the rim, there is hardly any in-between.

A mid-range jumper is something that you have to work at, and the evidence is spread throughout the league, with only a handful of players showing the ability to master it.

Besides being the ultimate student of the game, Bryant is probably one of the most fundamentally sound.  His techniques on both ends of the floor could be used in basketball tutorials.

James is no slouch in the fundamental department, but Bryant is above reproach. I'm not sure if even the most dedicated regimen could put James in Bryant's class, which may be second only to Jordan himself.

I feel that all of the above points are solid, but they can be argued, alas this one can't. The hardware disparity is real and it has grown since James has been in the league.

I have stated that it is fruitless to argue what James may accomplish in the future because we live in the present. The Kobe and Jordan argument would have never started if Kobe was unable to win a ring.

Charles Barkley and Karl Malone are considered two of the best power forwards to play the game, but they are trumped by Tim Duncan, and the argument will always end with the number of rings Duncan is wearing.

Likewise with John Stockton and Magic Johnson. Stockton may hold the assists record, but how many of those assists ever accounted for championships?

This is the final peg on which Kobe hangs his hat. LeBron has the potential to be the greatest player ever, but tomorrow is never promised.

I pay homage to the greatest active player today, who has the game and championships to back it up.  Until LeBron wins a ring he will be relegated to second-hand status.

Hadarii Jones, the Bleacher Report

Photo: Kobe Bryant, right, and LeBron James battle for a rebound in the fourth quarter during a Jan. 27, 2008 game at Staples Center. Credit: Allen J. Schaben / Los Angeles Times.

Comments

[zohaib]

This is silly. You compare head to head and you compare the year's record and it is obvious that LeBron has surpassed Kobe. Championship rings depend upon the team and no one will argue that LeBron would have won the same number (perhaps more) if he had been in Kobe's place. He is nowhere near as selfish and Petulant and would have worked with Shaq for more tittles.

If you compare tittles, you can even argue that Scottie Pippin was better than Kobe. Definitely a better defender, better rebounder and more tittles.

LeBron is better and has been since his 2nd year in the league.

[J-Dizzle]

FINALLY!! Someone who doesn't hang their argument over stats and ESPN's stupid PER system. Someone like LeBron can bull charge their way through guys and whatnot, but how long before that pounding takes its toll? Someone like Kobe though can pirouette through opposing teams with his footwork, form and his mastery of the fundamentals. That's what's going to keep Kobe around for a long time. Shaq is an example of someone who can slow down after taking a beating over time. LeBron needs to use his speed and athleticism and unlock those things Kobe can do if he's going to become more complete and become the best. Here's an idea.... LeBron to the Lakers when his contract expires. That would put him with Kobe and under Kobe's tutelage. Want to know how? Go here:

http://lakers.freedomblogging.com/2009/11/04/how-will-lebron-look-in-purple-and-gold/24475/

Before anyone says "The Lakers don't have cap room", read that. Sign and Trade is a beautiful thing.

[david]

you mean 4 rings.

[tomK]

What are they gonna say when Kobe wins #5 and beats Lebron doing it ? Oh poor Lebron didn't have the talent around him that Kobe had, these same jokers are the ones arguing that the Cav's are a better team than the Lakers. It never stops, Until Lebron wins SOMETHING, ANYTHING other than the popularity contest called MVP, he will be just be a very talented guy with lots of potential. Kobe is the real deal, and the ONLY guy that you can compare him to is Michael, that says quite a bit.

[NarNar]

Well said. Might I contribute that Kobe is only 2 rings away from MJ. With the squad that he has currently, on paper it looks realistic he might catch MJ (If the Bench steps up and Gasol back in the game). But no one can predict the future. It's fun to try though.

[tomK]

Manu Ginobili, on Twitter, after he swatted a bat out of the air with his bare hands and carried it off the court last Saturday in San Antonio.
• "To bludgeon a 4-ounce animal to death, it takes either a small man or a totally unthinking one -- with no respect or consideration for lives humbler than his own. This is a time when athletes in particular need to be on their best behavior around any animal and show that they have brains and a heart, not just reactionary brawn."
-- PETA being PETA, on its Web site.

PETA gets it wrong again, he didn't kill it, just knocked to the ground, carried it off the court, and someone let it go outside and it flew away. No harm no foul

[NarNar]

Zohaid you got to keep dreaming my friend. If your team don't win championships, you can't talk. Everyone is dealt the cards they have. Call it selfish, petulant, or competitive. At the end of the day. KOBE has 4 cookies... and LeBron still has a glass of milk (his hands were full thats why he couldn't shake hands when Orlando beat them in the Eastern Finals). Hands down!

How can you be the best when your team don't win? You can't argue that.

[Petera]

Talent, plus whatever it takes to win=greatness.

Talent with no wins just isn't the same.

[Todd Anderson]

No need to downplay Lebron's skills to prop up Kobe. Kobe stands alone among active backcourt players. The only one in Kobe's league is Tim Duncan.

As a life long Laker fan, I was ready to let him go after the Colorado and Shaq situations. However, he has earned my respect by being the most hard working and competitive player on the planet. His ability to create shots is out of this world.

[Bones]

Zohaib's comments are a joke. He says " no one will argue that LeBron would have won the same number (perhaps more) if he had been in Kobe's place." IMPOSSIBLE to prove. What's reality is Kobe has four rings. Period. End of story. Until LeBron actually wins some championships, he'll never be close to being better than Kobe except for possibly individual skills in some areas, and maybe with some individual records.

[diamond]

Amen

[LakeShow84]

Amen

[LakeShow84]

Lebron plays too sloppy to be better than Kobe at this point in his career..

Evidenced by his (comical) late game management.. If he wasnt a Stern favorite he would be called for charges on half of those forays that EVERYONE, fan, coach, player see coming.. But lemme guess Bron fans.. hes just so big and powerful other BIG AND POWERFUL people cant stop it?? Please..

All of you say give Bron Kobe teammates and it would be flipped..

I say give Kobe Lebrons physical traits and Kobe would be GOD in purple and gold..

[LakeShow84]

And another thing..

It didnt take Kobe 7 years to hit no buzzer beater.. come on now..

Oh and one more thing..

Where is Brons post game?? u guys realize he is SF right?? name me a good SF with no post game.. Hes content with being Mr Popular so let him be.. but dont get popularity mixed up with being the alpha dog.. I love my dog Lexi but i know Flame runs the house..

[NBA4ever]

This is a great article, though it seems to be preaching to the choir. I wish this article was on ESPN or NBA.com. I have always found the argument to be ridiculous and based on fantasy league and per stats that don’t tell the whole story.

The ridiculous; being exactly what you stated:

“it is fruitless to argue what James may accomplish in the future because we live in the present.”

He may never win one, and if the game is about physical dominance then Wilt is the greatest player ever to play the game period. If the game is about being a student of the game, well then Kobe is right there. Will James have the skill to make the adjustments later on in his career like Jordan and Kobe did and have?

“James is no slouch in the fundamental department, but Bryant is above reproach. I'm not sure if even the most dedicated regimen could put James in Bryant's class, which may be second only to Jordan himself.”

That is the one department I would argue that Kobe is the greatest, a lot of Jordan fans and expert would agree with me there.

Jon K:
What do we play for?
Not stats! Not Hype!

[Fred AKA. Mr. Delite]

I said this once, and now I will say it again KB24 is the best in the game today, Mr. 81 is only second to you know who? Don't get me wrong I like the king Labron, but untill Kobe retires he will always take a back seat, to the one and only, and mind you, before hes's done, might surpass Mr. you know who. PS. I live in the windy city Chi TOwn Baby. Go Lakers!

[LeBron is King]

LeBron MVP 2010!

[DS]

LeBron jams a finger on his non shooting hand and takes 6 games off. Kobe tears the tendon completely off the pinky of his shooting hand and takes just a few minutes off to put some tape on it. That pretty much says it all.

LeBron gets his stats through the brut force of his size, much like Shaq did and with not much skill involved.

Put LeBron in a china shop and all you're going to get is pile of broken dishes.

Put Kobe in a china shop and you're going to see a ballet.

Kobe is the equivalent of what Walter Payton or Barry Sanders were on the football field while LeBron is the equivalent of what Earl Campbell or Refrigerator Perry were. They could all score touchdowns but...

[ABQ]

True. Lest we forget Mr.LeBRONZE James. Lebron shamed USA basketball by leading them to a bronze finish. Once Kobe entered the picture. Lebron was wearing a gold medal. Face it, the talk of that Olympic team was all around Mr. Bryant's work ethic and dedication. This past summer wasn't about Lebron winning the MVP award, it was about Kobe's tremendous will to win. Kobe's a champion.

[Dave, Santa Barbara]

With Rasheed Wallace in Boston, a healthy Garnett makes a Laker repeat unlikely. What that means, too, is that LeBron will again be thwarted.

[ZairaAmaterasu]

Excellent piece of insightful writing. Really a pleasure to read.
I am not here to dismiss by any means the unquestionable talent and status of LeBron James, far from it. He's a wonderful player and will surely have a great space in the total history of this amazing sport. But all of that being naturally said, I just ask you all to think for a moment of this simple fact: what would have happened if Kobe had the physique du role of LeBron, and viceversa? With all their other skills intact as they are independently from the structure they are physically made of, well, it's not that peregrine to claim Kobe might even be up there His Air Majesty Jordan as for the super duper bestest best EVER, while LeBron would have never even being touched by these kind of supremacy debates. This is as clear as sun light.
It's not about rings, or achievements taken singularly, more than a player utmost skills rely not only on "god given talent" but also on determination, smartness, dedication and will to achieve it all. On this level there's no way any sort of comparison between Kobe and LeBron. Not yet, and for the way James's acts, I fear not for a long way more. Kobe has developed an impressive all field skill, both personally and in the way he rules a team (not "ANY" team: a difficult team like Lakers are and always have and will be) to the greater of selfimproving xtent. This mabe doesn't appeal everyone, but it must appeal his teammates and opponents, whom ALL acknowledge his overhuman picky-ness, dedication, strenght. This makes a player survive and get better year after year, no matter how he wins, no matter how greatly he loses. Kobe has a wonderous level of god given talent and an even more wonderous level of drive. Match this together. Then take a look at LeBron. I don't see the same. I just can't decode the same pedigree. Sure he can prove me wrong in ten years. But so far, and I dare to say even comparing the 24 years old Kobe with the similar aged LeBron, there's no space to make a list between these two. Kobe just stand higher above. And again I say this admiring all the crystally clear merits of LeBron James, cos I wouldn't love basketball if I were blind to them.

[wale]

You had me for a minute. I agree that Lebron is not there yet. Rings matter. Free agency allows players to find rings by hiring smart managers (Trevor Ariza obvoiusly has not learned this principle...yet). We'll see how smart Lebron is this summer. (I say stay in Cleveland and wait for that Pau Gasol deal that puts you over the top, or cut bait and push for a trade to the Lakers...NY will suffer for years under the Karma of Isaiah, and NJ?...pleeeeease). If he makes a mistake, he will have no rings, and because of that, he will not be able to hold Kobe's jock strap. Just accept it. As for skills, they are different, and both are great.

But you lost me by putting Magic and Stockton in the same sentence. I am literally throwing up. Sick and disgusted with The Times for printing such hideous journalistic rubbish. You should be ashamed of yourself. Has Stockton ever posted up at center in the finals to win it (as a ROOKIE YOU INSANE FOOL!!!). Has he invented passes that changed the game...that young guards are still imitating and will continue to for centuries (no look pass, length of court perfect bounce pass, over shoulder flip to the trailer)?

People forget one thing when considering the impact of teammates on a player's career. Yes, playing with better players gives you a better chance to get a ring. But it also diminishes everyone's individual stats. Kobe would win the scoring title every single year if he played for Oklahoma City, but his teammates are so talented, they are going to get touches. So back to Stockton, let's keep in mind that Magic was the greatest player on the greatest team in history, that included a handful of hall of famers. Stockton wasn't even the best player on a team that featured two. Drop Stockton in LA in place of Magic, and he becomes Steve Blake.

Now I love Stockton's scrappy game. I loved watching a scrawny little gym rat sneakily (and quite dirtily) undermine the games of players with more physical gifts. But I watched Magic play. I have met Magic. I missed none of Magic's championship runs. John Stockton, you're no Magic Johnson.

[Steve]

Kobe 4, LeBron 0. End of argument. Basketball-wise, Kobe is a much, much, much better overall player right now - he is superior fundamentally and is the top all-around player in the game because of his superior skill and basketball IQ in every phase; obviously, though, Lebron's freakish athletic ability and strength is superior to Kobe's at this point in their careers, although I wouldn't necessarily say that, though, when Kobe was at age 28 and under - he was a freak of nature back then, and still is to a slightly lesser degree. The big difference, though, is that Kobe has been there, making huge shots in the clutch, winning championships by carrying the team on his back for entire games sometimes for years and years. His performance during the whole 6 game finals series last year was one of the great overall performances in finals history, in my opinion. Lebron has put up similarly great stats in his shorter career but has won exactly zero rings and only one conference title. They are incomparable right now in my eyes. The whole debate is stupid anyway, and the only way to really compare the two is after both have retired. If the score ends up being Kobe 4 or 5 (or 6?!?!), Lebron 1 or 2 or 0, there'll be no argument (through these purple and gold jaded eyes, at least).

[nbasfan]

Kobe is selfish- that's true, but who isn't?

Kobe is beyond Lebrons reach, why? Experience beats talent, that's why. Remember the Kobe vs. Jordan debate? Jordan gets most of the votes of being the greatest. Why? 6 rings proved everything, experience beats everything.

Kobe was talented when he was playing Jordan, but never surpassed Jordan in a lot of peoples eyes. Same things going to happen. Lebron can be as talented as a man can be, but without experience and rings, his nothing compared to Kobe.

Like he said, gazing into a crystal ball wont help you win championships, its all about the present and tomorrow.

[xyz]

man.... you're going to piss off a whole lot of people if this article get circulated nationally..... even though i agree on ALL points, Mr. Jones, you're going to have to shield yourself from the venom that's going to come your way....

kobe = reality
bron = fantasy

kobe = team
bron = individual

kobe = championships
bron = stats

kobe = wins vs losses
bron = highlights

kobe = master
bron = paduwan