Blinded with science

The duel between neuropathologists heated up this morning in the Phil Spector murder trial.

John Andrews, called by prosecutors, said actress Lana Clarkson most likely was instantly incapacitated when the fatal shot to her mouth cut her spine.

“There would have been no movement, no spontaneous reflex movement?” Asked prosecutor Alan Jackson.

“No,” Andrews responded, saying reflexes were “abolished.”

Andrews flatly contradicted Dr. Michael Baden, a defense expert who testified last week that after studying the case for 4 ½ years, he recently had an “Aha” moment, and decided that Clarkson did not die immediately. The eleventh-hour theory supports the defense position that Clarkson coughed up blood on to Spector's jacket after she was shot. Prosecutors contend the blood sprayed on his jacket when Spector shot Clarkson. Prosecutors say Spector killed the 40-year-old actress when she tried to leave his Alhambra mansion; the defense says she shot herself.

The guillotine, redux: Andrews also contradicted Baden on another point. Baden had testified that accounts of the deaths of persons guillotined during the French Revolution indicated that their bodies moved reflexively hours after their decapitation. But Andrews said those 18th Century accounts were based on contraction of muscles after death that takes place when a portion of the body is struck.

Andrews agreed with Baden that decapitated chickens can “run around for a time until they bleed to death” after decapitation. But for humans, when a spinal cord is severed, motion ceases almost immediately, he said.

Comments

[nan]

This is finally winding down right???

Dr. A is articulate, calm and I agree with the KTLA commentators, he is a good witness for both sides. She is right on, that a skilled attorney asking questions adroitly to an expert can ellicit desired testimony.
Defense team is flailing a bit, complaining that prosecution did to them what they did to prosecution with Dr. B. Judge Fidler was absolutely great- no this is not the same thing. Def attorneys intentionally hid the evidence for tactical advantage.
Why is this different? Again the KTLA commentators hit on part of it, this is response, rebuttal, to defense' actions. Rebuttal, by definition, is responding to what has been brought up- not testimony/witness- planned for or anticipated to be presented in case in chief.

Really, the teams of lawyers for each side are highly skilled and experienced. Trial is demanding on every single level and likening it to war is not inappropriate. There are rules of engagement if you will. Skilled veterans give it their all and will push the envelope.

I haven't seen that much of the trial- trying to earn a living- but what I have seen has been encouraging to me. The judge is keeping control of the courtroom as he should. Both sides are fighting hard. I have seen spectacular "scores" on behalf of both sides. Even made comments on what I have seen.

What I have not done, and absolutely cannot do, is give an opinion as to the ultimate factual decision in this matter. I don't have all the facts, and never will. Watching the coverage I've seen, it has also made me privy to matters which the jury will not see, motions, examinations outside their presence etc.

It looks like Mr S has a gifted team doing their all for him. It also looks like my representatives (I am a resident) are doing a great job. Hopefully portions of these proceedings can be used to educate and train future officers of the court.

[JJ]

To Nan:

If you are a resident of LA, then push for Judge Fidler to a Higher Court position. A Great Supreme Justice candidate!!

But it looks like the Defense is starting over bringing back witnesses. All I can say many yrs. ago my huband was offered a high position out there, but I am glad he did not take it.TG!!!!!!

Thanks Nan. jj

[Maureen]

Dr. Andrews was articulate and stated the facts. He did not, in my opinion, seem biased toward the prosecution or the defense. It's a shame that someone like Dr. Baden had to be so theatrical and combative on the stand. He could learn a lesson from Dr. Andrews on how to conduct himself as a professional when testifying. I guess Dr. Baden and his "A Ha" moment cost Mr. Spector a great deal of money so he had to deliver one way or another. I only hope the jurors in this trial come to the right conclusion. Lana Clarkson did not go to Phil Spector's house to commit suicide. His history of threatening with guns is legendary. If a gun hadn't been pointed at or shoved in Lana Clarkson's mouth, she would be alive today. End of story.

[nan]

Does it strike anyone as strange that def brought out Dr. S (BS) to try to re re introduce Dr. B's testimony in "rebuttal" to Dr. A.

Dr. A is a man of science and wonderfully articulate and credible.

This has gone through the looking glass in many respects. Strange evidentiary juxtaposition by defense pushing simultaneously "science" and "slander". They try to bore the jury with largely irrelevant scientific mumbo-jumbo, and then put on clowns to dish dirt, supposition and gossip which seems not only rude, but nearly entirely made up, made up of inadmissible hearsay.

My thoughts on the "omg" factor is that the judge is going out of his way to the defense trying to prevent appellate issues.

Sadly, if PS is convicted I don't think the criminal case will go to appeal. PS' estate may however pursue and defend civil claims. I get a sick feeling, no matter what his actual involvement was, that he does not have long term life plans.

Sometimes I think I am seeing PS' desparation and dispair. It looked to me like the realization that this trial, and his life, is coming to a close and he is panicking.
Dead man sitting at the defense table.
Hope it doesn't happen. Hope it doesn't happen on camera but

[Scientist]

I am a registered nurse. Over the weekend I spoke with 4 doctors about Dr. Baden's testimony. I have great respect for these physicians. They have no dog in this fight. They all agreed that the shock to Miss Clarkson's spinal cord, whether it was completely transected or not, would have precluded any gross motor movement - such as coughing or breathing or legs shooting out from under her.

The defense efforts to confuse the jury about the science behind Miss Clarkson's injuries is disturbing and, I believe in Dr. Baden's case, unethical.

The defense stated they would present evidence clearing Mr. Spector of any wrong doing. To my mind, they have not. Instead the evidence overwhelmingly points to Mr. Spector as the shooter.

I hope the jury agrees with me.

[william matthews]

Five women had guns pointed at them by Spctor, He tells off duty cop at party all the women here need a bullet in the head. I f the jury can let him go they should do his time. What the hell ever happened to comon sense?