One last thought on the ages of China's female gymnasts

BEIJING -- After Zou Kai had won the high bar gold medal Tuesday for his third gold of these Games, and after his men's Chinese Olympics gymnastics team had tied the Soviet Union record for most Olympic gymnastics gold medals -- seven -- Zou was asked why the Chinese men had been more dominating than the women's team.

"Because they're so much younger," Zou said of his female counterparts. Zou certainly didn't mean to suggest that the Chinese female gymnasts were TOO young, but it was an apt comment in the final gymnastics press conference.

For nearly a month, stories have been surfacing about apparent discrepancies in the ages of three of the gold-medal winning Chinese female gymnasts -- He Kexin, Yang Yilin and Jiang Yuyuan.

The reports were prompted by documents filed by Chinese provincial sports authorities, as well as Chinese news accounts -- not because the Chinese gymnasts appeared young or small.

Kexin, who won the uneven bars gold medal, was described as being 13 years old last November by a prominent Chinese sports authority.

Each of the girls had turned in passports last February to the international gymnastics federation. And the passports indicated that the gymnasts were either 16, or would turn 16 this year, making them eligible for the Olympics.

But, whatever their ages, Zou did the math. They were younger than the men. And almost everybody else.

-- Diane Pucin

Photo:  From left, Germany's Fabian Hambuechen, China's Zou Kai and the U.S.' Jonathan Horton. Credit: How Hwee Young / EPA

Comments

[MSC]

Ages of some members of the Chinese men's gymnastics team:
- Yang Wei, 28
- Li Xiaopeng, 27
- Chen Yibing, 23
- Xiao Qin, 23
- Zou Kai, 20

Zou Kai is the same age as the oldest member of the Chinese female gymnasts, Chang Fei. The remainder of the Chinese women's gymnastics team are between 16 and 17.

[Christopher Chow]

I'm really tired of hearing about one more Chinese athlete having to overcome the prejudice against crooked teeth in order to be supported in the quest to reach her/his full potential as a human being. Ditto the girl with the voice whose face was perfect enough to be seen singing in the Opening Ceremonies, or the girl with the perfect face but unpreferred voice. But that's equivalent I guess to NBC's narrow casting of the variety of sports. Otherwise it's been an interesting Olympics.

[Pat]

It just goes to show that the "women" on the women's gymnastic teams are age-wise not women at all. They're children.

[Michael]

"If you are under 13 years of age you may read this message board, but you may not participate." ... But you will be able to compete on the Chinese women's team. Seriously though, the 16-age limit for women's gymnastics just isn't working. It is sad that China apparently felt the need to cheat to get around it, but cheating in sports has been around for a long time. No reason to pick on the Chinese specifically.

[Sandy]

Well, to begin with, much of the Chinese men's team are veterans of two or more Olympics and World Championships, so of course they're going to dominate. It is the nature of women's competition that demands the daring and flexibility of younger and younger girls. I remember that Nadia Comaneci was about 14 when she won her gold medals.

[becca]

Okay, first of all the two biggest disappointments for the Chinese team was Cheng Fei and Li Shanshan. Cheng was suppose to bring in two individual gold medals. Li was suppose to win beam. All they had to do was hit their planned routines. That one didn't happen.

One could argue that Yang Yilin, He Kexin, and Deng Linlin have done the best and they all are very young.

[Tony Su]

This age controversy was only stirred up by some US media because of jealousy and ignorance. The so-called "evidence" questioning their age was just some screen shots of a few faulty government web sites.

It's so convenient to denounce Chinese government media at one time, then treated it as more authoritative at another. Those posted age information was just the mistakes made by some lazy or careless Chinese reporters. More Chinese web sites reported correct age information, which were conveniently ignored by the US media.

An old time-stamped video circulated on Chinese web sites clearly showed that those girls were recruited when China was awarded Olympics and it mentioned they would be 16 years old in 2008.

BTW, many Chinese girls do look very young comparing to Westerners, and some even appear younger than most other Chinese girls. If you don't know that, you have not seen enough. There are Chinese girls in their 20s look like 12-year-old to even Chinese.

[dave]

Who cares how old they are? The olympics showcases the best in the sport, age shouldn't matter.

[skippy]

Some Americans just cannot take a failure graciously. Will bashing Chinese athletes help you achieve gold? No!
By the way, Shawn Johnson looks much younger than 16 too. Gymnasts are supposed to look like Hobbits.

[bigv]

Change the rule-If a 13 year old is the best she is the best.

[AJ]

To Tony Su and Christopher Chow - Sympathizers of China. Stop brooding over the comments and defending China.

For whatever reasons the Chinese have been cheating big time. There are numerous events that show that the Chinese have been awarded the No.1. BTW most of the events that Chinese have bagged Gold are decided by the Judges (who knows if they are bribed or there is some other story behind it). Show me the Track and Field events where China has gathering Gold's. Boo!! Hoo!! you can't cheat there.

[Yolvas]

China's Fake Olympics - China is good at cheating and deceiving entire the world. In 2001, China deceived the world and IOC by promising to improve human rights. But now human rights situation is worse than 2001. China promised one of the best Olympics. Yes, it kept its word by displaying computer generated fireworks, pre-recorded Lang Lang music, show a pretty girl's face using the voice a so-called ugly girl, and present China's 56 ethnic groups without those ethnic groups. In short, China will do anything for its "national interest" by even employing underage female gymnasts. Everything about China is fake, just like its political leaders.

[Peter]

You def deserved Gold, dont worry Jonathan, we all know at home you are a gold metalist to us.
http://www.jonathanhortan.com

[Adam]

Chinese are doing great in JUDGED competitions. Anything that is measured and has a clear winner, not so great.

Kind of like how Cheng Fei can land ON HER KNEES and still get a medal.

I wonder why....

[tad]

don't be a sore loser.

[SEAN]

IT IS OUTRAGEOUS THAT CHINA FAKED ANCIENT PEOPLE WITH ACTORES IN THE OPENING CEREMONY.

[SK]

People need to STOP THEIR RIDICULOUS COMMENTS ABOUT CHINA CHEATING.

First of all, this wouldn't be an issue at all if the US had won the gold over China.

Also, yes, it is entirely possible that these girls are underage. However, what you have to realize is it's also possible for them to be 16 years old. When people train THAT intensely for anything, their growth and development is stunted. That's why many gymnasts are so tiny and have mousy voices. In the case of the Chinese, those girls were trained much harder than any American girls and starting at a much younger age. Plus Asians tend to look younger, be shorter, and develop later than Caucasians to begin with. So the combination of facts makes it plausible for these girls to look like their much younger than they are.

And anyways, how is having 12-year old girls more advantageous than having 16 year old girls? IT'S NOT. It is possible to argue that younger girls are smaller and therefore lighter and so they can jump and flip higher/easier. However, girls that young also have less muscle and less control over their muscles than 16+ yr-old girls. They also don't have the same maturity, and it can be much easier for a younger girl to crack under pressure, especially on such a huge international stage. Furthermore they are more frail and therefore more prone to injury.

Which brings me to my next point. THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF CHEATING. It's a matter of Human Rights. For one thing, these girls did not dream from the age of 5 of becoming Olympic gold medalists. By then, they were already in gymnastics boot camp, slaves tho their country's ambition. These girls have been training since they were in the womb and have had no choice or say in it. And after what they've accomplished, regardless of their age, you have the NERVE to sit here and bash them out of jealousy? The bigger issue here is that China is abusing their children. Why don't you all open your eyes and look

What is more embarrassing is Bella Karolyi throwing a fit during every break in the gymnastics program about the Chinese "cheating" and the girls being too young. It's ridiculous that a man of his stature in the industry is making himself and the US look so ignorant and pathetic on National TV. And what's more is that he makes it look ok for this kind of trash talking to happen so publicly and so ignorant Americans follow suit. It's completely unprofessional and Karolyi just made himself look like a fool.

[Lily]

"Anything that is measured and has a clear winner, not so great."

There are no ambiguous judging errors that have granted the Chinese men gold. They hold clear, dominating leads. From what I recall, they hold the same clear leads in diving--I doubt a judging error will account for 20-30 point leads. There are several other "measured" events where they win

But...Say what you want to assure yourself. :)

As for everyone who somehow managed to bring China's politics into the discussion: Is this perhaps a subconscious way of trying to rationalize China's rising dominance in the world? Your rash comments seem defensive. You can bash their strategies all you want, but they're getting the results they want. You can pretend the other nations are squeaky clean, but every country has a dirty history, whether you choose to be in denial or not.

[Shawn]

hi SK, you raise very good points and I do agree that China have lots of voilation on human right (toward the lower class) and the laws do not have enough respect yet. Thanks for the understanding and caring. you are a good man.

but speaking of the children abusement. I think I might not agree with the commentators on the NBC's television.

most of the Children begin training at a very young age send by their parents in the hope that their child one day will make great acheivement and be successful in certain field, the same hope as those in this continent. They are trained at county-level club as part-time at young age, and recruited to the provincial level training center if they good enough an IF THEY WANT. Most of them like gymnatics but some don't. Those people who didn' continue on the training route back to study as a normal person (I know a person who almost went to national gymnastics team, but chose to study and got to Peking University management school eventually and is working for BCG now)).
These things happened in Gymnastics and Diving where technique and intensive training are highly required, but it is their family made this desicion first because they think it's good for the kids. the trainee can freely chose the route themselves once they trained for a while. you can alway quit just like quit from Universities when you feel it's good for you. Some articles said the officials take them away by force from their parent's hands when they are toddlers AND SOME OF YOU BELIEVE IT!!!! what do they want from the child? eat or ritual sacrifice? it's more like the application for the US university, no way to make it like drafting the army.

Moreover, some of them are trained by the coach they hired privately, such as Liu Xiang. but I do believe that in general the sports is centralized there and the spirit of sports is not as well spread as we dreamt. The main difference between China and American is that the sports is propelled by business here while China is supported by Goverment Fundings, which is bad for the people.
another difference is the olympian athletes are supposed to be full time professionals there.

but sometimes I just feel sorry when I found people here also receive delibrately-distorted, highly-biased or even extreme, nonsense information from the trusted media here whenever it's about China. and people even never questioned them, either out of arrogancy or moral superiority

[Kirsten]

I agree that the age limit should be done away with. Many of the best gymnasts in recent history were under 16; so what? That's how women's gymnastics works nowadays. And if FIG thinks that creating a minimum age will stop young girls from training so hard, they're dreaming. Take a look at Shawn Johnson as an example; when she was still in the Junior division, her score at Nationals beat all of the Seniors that year. Do you think she was just sitting around taking it easy because she wasn't old enough?

And while I do think they Karolyis--and much of the American public--made us come off looking like a bunch of sore losers, I can see their frustration if it is true that the Chinese girls were underage. The US has some fantastic young gymnasts, yet they were never considered for the team because they were too young. Nastia Liukin could have been a great addition to the '04 team (and probably helped us win gold, since the team's biggest mistake came on bars, the event on which she was the reigning national champion), but again, she was ineligible. Makes for a bitter pill to swallow.

Based solely on performance, the Chinese team deserved their win, no question. Based on other rules, it can be questioned. But I say we throw those rules away and simply reward these girls, and others, for being the best in their sport.

[enough chinese bashing already]

Everything aside, it's great to have pride in one's country. I'm so glad Shawn Johnson finally got her gold. She's been a class act throughout these games.

But it's just sad to read these comments. There is a clear bias and anti-Chinese sentiment in most of the comments on these blogs that border if not cross the line to xenophobia.

The NBC commentators are biased calling others countries', especially China's mistakes major and similar American mistakes 'small bobbles and slight flaws' and if you can't see that Bela Karolyi is biased and in his own banned from USA coaching world, then you've got no sense of objectivity. If you want to enjoy the Olympics, you have to hit the mute button before these events start.

This age issue is dead. Yes, they look young and may be younger than 16 but there is no definitive proof and the issue has long been closed. Provincial records may be mistakes and they may not be. The effort and standards of local news and the like are lower than they should be, even here in the US. When I ran h.s. track and won some medals, the local news reporter butchered my name so badly that there was only one correct letter to my name in the paper the following morning and I had spelled it out for her. We recently had a storm that caused power outages, fires and flooding and our local newspaper headline read "Storms strake homes and cause fires." Poor education system in our country? A possibility but more likely was the reporters could care less.
Even simpler, you can listen to Al Trautwig during the gymnastics events and find plenty of inaccuracies. And of course, people who listen to him on NBC -the official broadcasting station of the Olympics- will take it as fact and then write about those "factual statements."

The only reason anyone here cares about age is because the Chinese team beat the US team in the team final. No one is 'investigating' or judging other teams simply because they don't pose a threat to the US team.
Did you forget that Alicia Sacramone (poor girl...nbcolympics.com headlined a story about her 'Sad Sac' before wisely taking it off) happened to choke during team finals?

Shawn Johnson doesn't resemble your typical American 16 year old and without those bulging muscles, would look just as young as those Chinese gymnasts who are being picked on for simple and arbitrary traits like appearance, height and weight compared to the American gymnasts and the rest of the American population.
The American population setting weight standards for the rest of the world is well...silly, not to mention unhealthy.

Thanks Diane Pucin, for once again riling up the angry and the ignorant. It shows America's unfortunate colors.

[Ed Richardson]

Only liberal nutjobs would take a “who cares how old they are” approach to this atrocity. The IOC test for whether or not you took a growth hormone last year but the ages of these girls is dismissed? The Chicom adolescents’ average weight is 77lbs compared to 102 for the Americans in a sport where bodies have to leap higher and feet have to balance on a beam.

This is an absolute atrocity further diminishing the IOC and making them propaganda puppets for the Chinese.

It’s already known that Chicom athletes in the past were underage and that their swimmers were using growth hormones. Communist countries have to CHEAT. They’ve done so since there was communism. Everything is propaganda in a statist system.

[Ed Richardson]

Propaganda in communist regimes is news to some there? That's a laugh.

The Chinese already have a proven record of cheating at the Olympics (swimmers taking years of growth hormones, former gymnast admitting to lying about age, etc).

[Ed Richardson]

Propaganda in communist regimes is news to some there? That's a laugh.

The Chinese already have a proven record of cheating at the Olympics (swimmers taking years of growth hormones, former gymnast admitting to lying about age, etc).

[Jason]

many of you are a bunch of losers like Bela K, you already lost, move on.