Mexico nervous about California's Prop. 19 vote

 

 

Mexico, the country that supplies most of the marijuana used in the United States, is closely watching California's vote on Proposition 19, which would legalize possession of small amounts of the drug.

The government of President Felipe Calderon is worried that legalization would do nothing to stem the brutal drug cartel violence sweeping Mexico, while at the same time stoking demand. Other Mexicans, including a couple of former presidents, academics and others, favor the measure, hoping production in California would cut into the profits collected by the Mexican cartels.

Alejandro Poire, the government's security spokesman, reiterated its opposition Tuesday, reading a statement timed to coincide with the vote in California.

"Legalizing marijuana will not put an end to organized crime in Mexico and the wave of criminal violence threatening Mexicans … especially as a measure taken at a local, unilateral level," Poire said.

Calderon, in a recent interview with The Times, outlined his opposition to Prop. 19 as well. But that hasn't quieted a furious debate here in Mexico nor allayed tensions between this producing nation and that huge consumer to the north.

"Don’t be fooled. These groups [the cartels] have diversified their criminal actions to other offenses," including robbery, kidnapping and the trafficking of human beings, Poire said. "To think their harmful … violent behavior would end with legalization is simply a false premise."

-- Tracy Wilkinson in Mexico City

Photo: Mexican soldiers at an army base in Tijuana burn 134 tons of marijuana seized in a record bust last month. Credit: Mark Boster / Los Angeles Times

 

 

 

Comments

[Terry M.]

Hey here is a thought, MEXICO, put troops on the northern border like it has on its southern border to curb exports of dope and illegal aliens, and the US put troops on the southern border with serious rules of engagement teeth, like Mexico has which will stop the flow of weapons into Mexico, start going after American companies that hide money for the cartels, and seize property and cash from those benefiting from it here in the states. The same three strikes attitude held for Americans that committed three felony offenses, illegals caught in the states after deportation should be given healthy prison sentences, and all properties forfeited to the state, who can resale it to recover the cost associated with the process. Problem solved.

[Terry M.]

Archaic views on hemp, lolllllllll. Now I have heard it all. I am totally convinced now that bud smoking affects one's ability to think rationally. Archaic lolllllllllll

Hemp, bud, chronic, cannabis, Kush, cush, pot, etc. etc, etc still = Drugs.

[Ed]

Do you pot heads actually think california s the only place mexico sends pot???? give me a break, realize that pot gets far more expensive as it goes further north. Another point these cartels make much more money on Meth/Cocaine/Heroin......pot is just easier for them to obtain since they grow it. and yes they also traffic/kidnap/murder people for money!! So the argument that this initiative would serve a blow to the cartels is insane!! Pot is practically legal now anyway the Gov. just made it an Infraction instead of a Misdemeanor unless you are caught with more than an ounce you walk away!! any idiot that walk (sick or not) can walk into these fake ass doctors and ask for a letter and guess what?? yeah its legal. GIVE ME A BREAK POT HEADS!! go eat some nachos!!

[Frank]

So many suffer because of our archaic views of hemp. Too many benefit from our refusal to legalize it. Think of the taxes generated from the sale of cigarettes and alcohol. We easily accepted these drugs and now they are powerful economic entities that funnel money to our politicians. All of the social problems caused by each are overwhelming and result in the deaths of thousands and we still accept these drugs as a part of our life. My hope is one day we will control hemp and reap the benefits of it manufacture and sale. The industry it would create and the taxes it would generate would benefit our budget and employment problems now!

[PRECIGIL]

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Here’s an example of how you have worked together. In 1995, the House was going to finally repeal subsidies for growing tobacco, because an addictive cancer-causing drug didn’t seem like the most deserving recipient of tax-payers’ cash – until Boehner walked the floor of the House handing out checks from tobacco lobbyists to his fellow elected representatives. They changed their minds. The subsidy stayed. Explaining his check-dispensing, Boehner says: “It’s gone on here for a long time.” So get your bids in: the House is open for business.

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[PRECIGIL]

THIS PUPPETPRECIDENT AFRAID HE WILL LOSE HIS MILLIONS , HE IS NOW GETTING FROM THE US??????????

[Rafael Esparza]

The Mexican Cartels are celebrating because proposition 19 failed to get approved. Their profits are assured. The Mexican Cartels continue to have a monopoly in the growing and distribuition of marijuana. What the people that voted against prop 19 did not realize, is that under proposition 19, any user could have had a choice in growing their own weed, thus lowering the demand in the open market. Lets say that 50% of California users grow their own weed, this would lower demand by 50%, thus lowering the Cartel's sales and profits in the same proportion. This reduction is attained by allowing users to grow their own, now if prop 19 had passed, it would have allowed the state, counties and citys to tax and regulate the sale of weed, further lowering the demand for mexican weed, and quite possible cutting into their profits, and for sure helping to alleviate the violence and indiscriminate killings that now ocurr in Mexico.

[American Pot Smoker]

And I care about what this is going to do to Mexico? This will only help the United States in every way. From tax money to giving people a peace of mind.

[Tony]

You know, after toking for almost 40 years, I actually thought I saw some light at the end of the tunnel, but alas, just another train...sigh... How many more years before the truth finally sees the light of day ? WHY, in light of how dangerous alcohol and tobacco are, and the deaths attributable to these two substances alone, does pot still get a bad rap ? Anybody with an ounce of common sense could figure this one out...no-brainer. Guess the brains are really gone for real. Come on Calli, we count on you to break the ice for the whole country. What a disappointment... Well, medical is still available. That will do till we can get this to next vote. Beware, that will be the next thing on the agenda if they feel they have inertia off this failure. Better luck next time.

[Susana Beristain Bailey]

No no no no no. Mexico is not nervous. President Calderon is nervous,. Mexicans are nervous about him.

[flipper]

EVERY one of these comments is pro prop 19. this is a slice of the general voting public in california. Almost every person i work with (most making triple digit salaries) are for legalization. Who in the heck voted all those votes AGAINST prop 19? what a sham!! I guess we all know whats really going on. So much for "every vote counts".

[PRECIGIL]

Ill check later to see if you are an honest broker.

[Rico ricon]

Why mexico needs to be worry about prop. 19? its just hypocrisy because what the mexican government is doing is just using the "plan Merida money " for the people that don't know, what is the plan merida. The plan merida is $$$$$$$million of dollars that USA provided to the mexican governement to fight drugs; so Mr. Calderon he has to show that he's actually doing something good with the money, the mexican government and the cartels they been dealing together for a very long long time, corruption and extortion are the two main things going along with the mexican government and the cartels, remember if we going back on Mexican history; how many past presidents were involved with the the "big guys" this is a reality that Mr. Calderon knows but he can't do anything , I wish I could tell Mr. Calderon that instead of create more violence, create more jobs; use the money from the rich and create jobs, goods jobs so he really could help his country.

[PRECIGIL]

Why in the world would we want to approve prop 19??? This would put the drug dealers, the gun runners and the law inforcement cops out of a job, They would have to look for an honest job.

[PRECIGIL]

Ten years ago, Portugal had some 100,000 heroin addicts -- about 1 percent of its entire population. HIV infections from injecting drugs were among the highest in Europe.

Now the addict count has been cut nearly in half. HIV infections from drug use have fallen more than 90 percent. And the policy shift responsible for such a dramatic improvement in Portuguese life is something U.S. lawmakers -- watching an escalating drug war on their southern border -- might consider worthy of some attention: decriminalization.

[Ube Farrell]

Why would anyone buy that crap from Mexico if it were legal to grow their own?

[peter]

I haven't drawn a sober breathe for 13 years and my life is in shambles, not surprisingly. I have betrayed all my loved ones, to them I'm a useless pot head and I most certainly am. Yes I accept assistance, the government is too stupid and can't appear to figure out that this guy is scamming the system. I drive stoned every day although infrequently at night. I have never been charged with a dui and hopefully I won't end up with blood on my bumper. If this prop goes through, I'm certain an entire generation won't be able to confront the real world without being lit just like me. That's not progress, it's not! Our schools are in enough trouble without having to deal with a worsening pot problem I'm the canary sent into mine and I'm dead, my spirit died a long time ago. Anyone who says pot is harmless is not grasping the truth. Pot is harmful they are wrong, very wrong!

[YorMom]

NOBODY wants pot from mexico! it's garbage!!!

[Jimmy B]

I agree with John C. on this the goal is not to save mexico... No one can save mexico

[Rene Cuevas]

Calderon is worried that passage of prop 19 is goin to cut into his share of the money lol. But all kidding asside.. of course it wont spell the end of the cartels but with pot legal law enforcement can concentrate on the REAL crimes like trafficking of people,weapons,hard drugs, the kidnapping and robbery yada yada..plus when you see all the confiscated weed being burned in the picture above...just think..thats like 0.005 % of what the cartels import into the U.S. if not less..oh its gonna hurt em trust me im a mexican jajaja!

[Tony]

This is a great social experiment, which I believe will cut cartel earnings and more importantly reduce the time spent by the justice systems dealing with petty possession.
However given that there are a number of large cashed up groups (Cartels / various govt officals / groups) that make large sums of money from the existing situation, I dont like its chances of success.

[DrClue]

Mexico is probably far more concerned about a major loss to their economy.

The US grows a far better product anyways. I'm looking forward to marijuana tourism too.

[Cannabis]

When is the actual voting for this thing?

[Dennis]

"I am not so sure legalizing pot will decrease the cartel violence. It won't increase it either though. I just think they should legalize it because its a waste of tax payers money."

... I agree ... it might actually generate some revenue! Keep rules same as alcohol ... the world is watching and we need to step up!

[DPinDC]

I'd make a comment but @bacon got it right, so my comment is to read his/her comment.

[yuri]

who wrote this most of usa pot vomes from cali not mexico mexican weed is the lowest grade u can find

[mike d]

I am not so sure legalizing pot will decrease the cartel violence. It won't increase it either though. I just think they should legalize it because its a waste of tax payers money.

[Beasterdamas]

Anybody who doesn't vote Yes for Proposition 19 is either a cop or trafficking...Vote Yes and watch all of the Cartel's and those who make their living illegally all these years go away...Get a real job...Grow Legal Marijuana...

[Duncan20903]

Alejandro Poire, that's a great example of a straw man fallacy in the article above, just classic.

Now who the heck said that Prop 19 would end the existence of organized criminal syndicates? You set that nonsense up as your straw man, and then beat the stuffing out of it hoping to fool some people into thinking that your point is valid. Since there is no one outside of a lunatic asylum that would believe that Prop 19 would make the cartels vanish can you please explain why you think it appropriate in submitting such hysterical rhetoric as if it were relevant to the issue.

If we could get you idiot prohibitionists to recognize the proven, epic failure of public policy that we like to call the war on (some) drugs we would be able to gut the cartels. I've read that the cartels pull in about $10 billion a year from cannabis. Your submission is that if we can't make them vanish from the face of the earth we may as well keep sending them this $10 billion every year? Is it also your submission the the cartels could snap their fingers and generate $10 billion in revenues in other criminal activities? You certainly must think that people are gibbering idiots if you think that they will believe such a ludicrous absurdity. Tell me why the cartels aren't already exploiting this $10 billion in unexploited criminal revenue. Does the packaging and distributing pot give the 'amotivational' syndrome? Perhaps the cartels are passing on exploiting these unexplored opportunities because they just don't want to be greedy? Perhaps they just don't have a desire to bring in that $10 billion?

No, the nonsense submitted by Mr. Poire has no factual basis whatever. You can twist the truth anyway you like but the facts are that we can easily deprive them of that revenue, and that such a loss would be a significant body blow to these criminal syndicates which you favor leaving in charge of cannabis production, distribution and quality control. How about telling us why you favor empowering and enriching organized criminal syndicates rather than assigning the job to licensed and regulated businesses?

We're not going to quit consuming cannabis. That is not in anyway negotiable, and you do not have the power to force it to occur. The only choice you have is 'do we tax and regulate cannabis and set up a transparent distribution chain in order to restore sanity to the market' or to maintain the status quo with the criminal syndicates as the approved producers and suppliers of the recreational cannabis market in the US.

The war on (some) drugs has failed. Continuing to throw money down the rathole of prohibition is abject stupidity. When you find yourself in a hole the first step to getting out of that hole is to quit digging. You people seem to think it makes sense to hire a steam shovel in order to dig faster and deeper. Only a full fledged, card carrying moron can look at the decades of evidence that your failed efforts have produced and believe that more of the same will result in a different result.

Indeed, the choice is yours. Please, can you start choosing something that isn't a proven boondoggle and epic failure? Yes, new ideas might fail. But the old ones are guaranteed to fail.

[rick]

The "Alcohol Industry" begs you to vote No. Why? They view it as a threat to their profits. Just as Big Oil Business firmly diffuses any greener alternatives. The pros far outweight the cons on this matter. I've traveled the world and seen ...societies efficiently co-exist with marijuana legalization. That is exactly the reason why I reffuse to surrender my voice to the "scare tactics" employed by "The Alcohol Industry." Why is it that many (and I mean MANY) countries effectively run "FREE Health-Care" and many other programs that do not exist in the US? Same Concept! I do not smoke marijuana; however, my eyes are no longer blindfolded! The foggy lies are slowly fading away! Just Sayin... =) All Love -RB-

[rick]

No matter what picture is painted for you, alcohol will ALWAYS be the deadliest between the two! =) Too bad the "Alcohol Industry" has the media in their pockets!

[KP]

Legalization is good for USA.

[Stanley]

Wake up California, you need to rethink your failed drug policies. You'll never legislate away drug demand. Drugs will always be part of society. People choose for themselves what to put in their own bodies.

Keeping pot illegal just means the rich Mexican cartels will keep supplying it instead of a tax-paying pot growing employer in California. It also means that the border will keep on being used to smuggle contraband, diverting resources away from combating terrorism and human trafficking.

[Ajax the Great]

Any Mexican leaders against it are either insane, stupid, or in bed with the cartels. Take your pick.

[John C.]

The legalization of marijuana is for the United States. It has nothing to do with solving crime problems in Mexico. Poire says that it won't stop the organized crime in Mexico, that's because it's only supposed to stop the crime in California. Mexico needs to solve their own problems.

[Ted]

Calderon is probably more concerned with the money that enters the Mexican economy as a result of marijuana sales in the US, as well as US-funded anti-drug initiatives. If weed is legalized, the growers are going north.

This is the perfect sector for Phillip Morris -- they can transition from cigarettes to a healthy but profitable alternative.

[El Guapo]

So let me get this straight... if prop 19 passes, the Mexican president feels it won't impact the Mexican cartel?

Why would the Mexican president be concerned about california's results let alone "outline opposition to Prop 19"?

Just food for thought.

[terry]

Why is mexico worried aboiut cali legalizing pot . It might not end the war in mexico but if sure as heck aint gonna hurt mexico in anyway . Thats simply make no cents.Only thing mexico has to worry about is loosing there number one export which colderon should be all for . or why else would he start a war with the people he has started this war with.

[bacon]

not even the point. *sigh* YES organized crime will exist regardless. This is about personal freedom and NOT persecuting innocent marijuana users. This is about American civil liberty. This is about society shedding its ignorant notions about one of the most unfairly bedeviled groups of people in history. This is about stopping class warfare. This is about the millions of senseless marijuana arrests. This is about what's right. This is not about what they want you to be afraid of.

[DannyDiamond]

Nice pic LA Times! Fear monger much? Legalize it to show solidarity for personal freedoms even if you don't use it.

[Swimmer23]

LA Times is desperately trying to use fear mongering to curb the vote. Readers beware, this is not a unbiased or objective source of news.

[bd]

Of course Mexican leaders don't want legalized Cannabis. That's how they get paid their blood money. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Tax it.

I can see it now, Budweiser "Bud" grown at the same hop fields, Winston Chronic.

And I don't even smoke cannabis.

[Andrew]

Interesting... How are murder and kidnapping profitable? I don't really how lowering the price of America's number one imported substance would not affect the people importing those substances. Also has this guy never read the reports on states and countries that show lower drug use with decriminalization and legalization of drugs. For example a recent article by Time stated that more people in America have tried Cocaine, than people in Portugal have tried Marijuana. Portugal recently just decriminalized possession of all drugs.

[James Fergison]

Marijuana is a billion-dollar industry, to take away that from drug cartels will not stop them from other illegal activities, but it will hurt them. That's a huge reason why I voted Yes on Prop 19.

[Nightingale]

I can't imagine legalization "stoking" the demand for Mexican weed. Californians would grow their own or buy weed that has been grown within California. With Prop19 giving the government more control over where the weed comes from and how it is sold, Mexico could try as hard as they can to export weed into California but that doesn't mean it will sell. If it can't get into regulated establishments or pass through the state's approval, then it won't make much money.

Furthermore, California is only one piece of the puzzle. Once marijuana is legal in one state, it shows the rest of the country (and the world for that matter) that this substance CAN be regulated and maintained as it has years before.

California alone will not put much of a dent into Mexico's problems, I agree. It'll deal a blow more to California's local marijuana crime. It'll take the whole country of America legalizing it in order to cut off all demand for Mexican weed.

Also, if the Mexican government turns around and legalizes it much the same way, then the drug cartels are REALLY screwed! 60% of their income comes from marijuana. Who the heck is going to buy weed from a dealer as opposed to a clean, safe, legal establishment?

The violence in Mexico can not be fixed with a band-aid. Anyone who thinks that Prop19 is going to save Mexico is jaded. Prop19 is only the first step to encouraging other State's to follow California's lead. The REAL solution comes once the majority of America (especially in the south next to the boarder) legalizes weed, then people can start to grow locally, which cuts out the need for importing.

[Kelly King]

Every blow to the cartels, be it large or small, is one we should all get behind. The loss of control of the marijuana trade is not a small blow, mind you. That picture there is $640,000,000 worth of pot... street value, of course. Are they still trying to tell us that didn't hurt a little bit? Now, imagine hundreds of times that out of the hands of gangs and drug dealers.

Start to get it? Don't pretend like loss of the marijuana trade isn't going to hurt them really, really bad.