Anti-illegal immigration groups confront upcoming presidential realities

Both John McCain and Barack Obama hold positions on immigration that are abhorrent to anti-immigration groups, writes The Times' Nicole Gaouette from Washington.

"Although heavily supported and highly organized, those who oppose illegal immigration suddenly find themselves without a champion," she writes.

Obama and McCain are seen as generally indistinguishable on the issue. McCain, though toughening his stance recently, has backed proposals providing a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants. Obama favors a similar mix of enforcement and legalization.

The staff of the Immigration Reform Law Institute has been working since 2002 to aid state legislators concerned about illegal immigration. Only this month, reports the Associated Press, the group filed a lawsuit against a property company in Plainfield, N.J.

The lawsuit accuses the company, Connolly Properties, of allowing so many undocumented tenants to live in its buildings that it amounted to unlawful harboring and should be considered a criminal enterprise that encouraged illegal immigration.

Meanwhile, the Christian Science Monitor says this morning that trends in illegal immigration, reduced by tighter border controls and raids on meatpacking plants and other establishments that employ high numbers of illegal immigrants, could be good for jobs in the United States.

If current moves to restrain illegal immigration trim that growth by 100,000 to 200,000 immigrants, it should have some effect on the nation's labor supply, notes University of Chicago economist Jeffrey Grogger. He's coauthor of a paper calculating that a 10 percent increase in the supply of a particular skill group caused by higher immigration prompted a reduction in the wages of similarly low-skilled black men by 4 percent between 1960 and 2000, lowered their employment rate by a huge 3.5 percentage points, and increased their incarceration rate by almost a full percentage point.

So, presumably, fewer low-skilled immigrants could gradually induce more work for low-skilled native Americans. Read on.

-- Deborah Bonello in Mexico City

Photo: In Nogales, Ariz., National Guardsmen build a border road. Credit: Ross D. Franklin / Associated Press

Comments

[Meritorious_Soso]

We should have a little humor on the situation. I found a blog that satirizes Americans for losing control of their borders. http://americansecretsocietyofillegals.blogspot.com/ It’s funny but hurts at the same time. I left San Diego for Virginia a few years ago and wound up in Prince William County, about 30 miles south of DC. Hispanics seemed to make up 30% of population, from what natives told me was zero ten years ago. The county govt passed a law forcing all agencies, esp police, to ask all foreigners their immigration status. The Hispanic population dropped to five percent in less than two years and we’ve got plenty of empty houses to choose from.

Don’t believe politicians who tell you that they, as local officials, can’t do anything.

[Homegrown]

Don't you just LOVE that BIG GRAND LIE ..."12 million immigrants already in our country"!

The REAL number is 35-40 million or higher! That is based on Homeland Security's own analysis of an estimated 3-6 million illegal aliens entering the USA a year, over the last 15-20 years

We have been invaded and we MUST take our nation back. We have got to get angry. I am sick of reading murder after murder of people and families by illegal aliens (with the aid of US politicians)

The most recent is the family murder in San Francisco...the entire family except Mrs. Bolongna was murder by an illegal alien gang member...just like Jameil Shaw.

Get off your lazy butts and DEMAND they be put out of YOUR country!

[gethot]

Americans NEED to start sueing for damages against cities, states, and the federal gov. for injury from illegal aliens. Sanctuary BS is supported ONLY by corporations and their flunky politicians....NO ONE asked the American taxpayer for approval of this "be eaten from within" stupidity.

Sue them and they will listen. This is YOUR country NOT illegal aliens....TAKE IT BACK!

[American Latino]

"Posted by: Marcos El Malo | June 26, 2008 at 10:14 AM"
Only an idiot or a racist themselves would try to turn an ILLEGAL FOREIGN invasion into a "racist" policy. I guess Mexico must be VERY RACIST cause they put illegal aliens in jail for 10 years.

Marcos..you need to try another angle...this one makes you look stupid...AND racist.

p.s. I am Latino and am 100% against illegal aliens of ALL backgrounds...PERIOD!

[Marcos El Malo]

I love how the anti-immigrants keep changing the name of their movement to provide cover for their racism. Now it's "pro-Sovereignty". It's part of their strategy of taking a complex problem that needs a thoughtful solution and reducing it to twisted slogans and unAmerican solutions. "Illegal is illegal" is a good example. Speeding is illegal. How many of these racist sloganeers turn themselves in each time they exceed the speed limit, or break some other law? If they are to argue that speeding is a trivial infraction, I would have to counter, "Illegal is illegal".

The fact is that we've seen these racists quite a few times in our nation's history. Notable examples include the persecutions of Irish and Chinese immigrants. History indeed repeats itself. Being of Japanese and Jewish descent, I know racism when I smell it, and the current generation of anti-immigrants stink.

When McCain's immigration reform was scuttled, the argument was that the border must be secured first and border enforcement must be strengthened. In my opinion, this was a valid argument. Now that we are seeing greater border enforcement and a more secure border, the anti-immigrants are moving the goal posts. The fact is that a perfect sealed border is not possible. As adults seeking adult solutions we must decide what is good enough so that we may begin to address the problem of 12 million immigrants already in our country. Until I see some reasonable proposals from the anti-immigrants, I cannot help but conclude that they are childish racists and political opportunists.

[Brittanicus]

Both presumptive Senator Obama, McCain and then House Speaker Pelosi have a lot to answer for, regarding to illegal immigration.. Their idea of Comprehensive Amnesty last March would have helped to bankrupt the country. Because what illegal aliens cannot get in benefits now, such as free health care, education and a host of benefits from both federal and state programs, they would have inherited after getting legal status. Tom Tancredo, Duncan Hunter are not like the political party members above, as they want the borders fence built according to the original plan and certainly no path to instant citizenship. Tancredo would eradicate the misinterpreted birthright law and stop all free welfare benefits to illegal foreign nationals.
Even as I speak the House Appropriations Committee today (today) will be deciding how the federal government enforces immigration laws. 202-224-3121 We must demand the border fence constructed according to Duncan Hunters 'Secure border fence act (2008), reluctant Democrats must endorse the Federal SAVE ACT (4088) We must insist on full funding for (ICE) and no gutting of any programs. NUMBERSUSA.

[M A Andrews]

Criminal employers of thousands of illegal aliens in Los Angeles should be prosecuted
with the RICO act,especially if they post massive signs on their buildings
and city bus benches demanding legalization for their illegal alien employees
while they privatize their profits and dump the social costs on legal citizens !!

numbersusa
grassfire
alipac
saveourstate
american patrol

[ed]

Thank you LA Times an accurate headline for once: "...anti ILLEGAL immigration groups..."

[Ed Weirdness]

Assertions that there will be shortages of workers are the histrionics of employers and bureaucrats who benefit from low wage immigrant workers. America has been considered population stable for decades. That is, the births to American Citizens is equal to the number of American Citizens who die. If all immigration were stopped tomorrow, our nation would not be any less overpopulated than it is today! There would not be any fewer working age adults citizens! Hysterics over enough workers to support aging American's are based on outdate, unsustainable social security and social services models. Continuing the overpopulation of our nation will only prolong the "social security" disaster and increase its negative impact. There is no problem confronting America's Citizens that would not be measurably improved by ending illegal immigration, and reducing legal immigration to sustainable numbers. More people competing for fewer resources is a prescription for economic, environmental, social and cultural disaster. Certainly its impossible to rationally suggest that unconstrained population growth through immigration is sound economic, environmental, social or cultural policy. Shortages of food, fuel, water, are just the beginning!

[Ed Weirdness]

Overpopulation, congestion, urban sprawl, vanishing farm land and green space, crumbling infrastructure, overcrowded schools and emergency rooms, lack of affordable housing, diminishing resources, food and fuel shortages, crime, pollution, depressed wages, increased tax burdens, the balkanization of our communities, the overall decline in quality of life, are all the result of unconstrained immigration. Thus far, none of the vandidates has made a sound case as to how, more people competing for limited resources will positively address any of the problems confronting America's Citizens!

Virtually every industrialized nation, even China, Mexico, and most recently, the European Union, has taken steps to end illegal immigration, and to curtail legal immigration to only that which is prudent, demonstrably necessary, and above all other concerns, in the best interests of their native population. It's dangerously misguided for anyone to suggest that the United States should not do likewise. The near revolt among America's Citizens that took place when the Senate tried to force their egregious amnesty down our throats is nothing compared to what Legislators can expect if they undermine efforts to secure our borders and enforce our immigration laws!

I agree that neither candidate or their party platforms adequately reflect the Citizens opposition to amnesty and border security. Neither party represents the views of the majority on the issue of illegal immigration.

We can marginalize the threat that both Obama and McCain represent by turning out pro-illegal/pro-amnesty House and Senate members at every opportunity. Congressional approval ratings are even more abysmal than those of the administration. There is no better time or opportunity to express the will of the people than now. Seek and support pro-enforcement candidates up and down the ballot, even if they are from another party. America's future is far too important to squander on partisanship. If there are no pro-enforcement candidates running in your House and Senate district, then by all means turn out every incumbent you can! Changing the balance of power in Congress to a more neutral status will only aid in defending us from passage of dangerously goofy legislation and the oppressions of special interest groups!

[Americana]

The issues discussed in this article demonstrate that it so important to reform our immigration system. It is unfortunate that people are here illegally but they cannot all be grouped into a stereotype that is so readily vilified. "Securing the border" by building a fence is costly and ineffective and raids are an intimidating and divisive attempt at dealing with undocumented workers. It is my hope that current elected officials and any new ones elected in the upcoming year will work towards a system of immigration that is conducive and accessible to families as well as individuals earnestly desiring to immigrate and work within the U.S. As legal immigration becomes more accessible, illegal immigration and the myriad of complicated situations which accompany it can be avoided.

[JPL]

If most Americans want illegals to return to Mexico and tougher laws then why is Doctor RON PAUL not getting a good vote? Instead we are getting McCain (Mc Amnesty) and Obama. This is a paradox i don't understand. Are voters not informed that he is (still) running and that he is against birthright citizenship etc? In any case what we need to do is e-verify AND build a fence (can use a lot of
of these hi-tech towers to save concrete). We should have done this 20-30 years ago, now there's a lot more work ahead

[George Chell]

"Both McCain and Obama are enemies to U.S. sovereignty. Both of them, in word and deed, have demonstrated this by supporting amnesty."

They won. American people have spoken. Get over it!

[Larry Smith]

I'm amazed at the traction this issue is getting, and the fear mongering swirling around it.

Tho there are surely people who have lost their jobs to "invaders from the south", there are a LOT more who are losing their jobs to more ambitious countries overseas. Toughen up, America! If you think Mexican immigrants are a threat, you're focused on the wrong thing - you should be thinking of ways to make your country competitive with China, Taiwan, Malaysia, Thailand - countries where cheap labor abounds and smart entrepreneurs are finding ways to employ them.

I think experts agree:
America needs immigration to stay competitive in coming decades.

Ignore the anti-immigrant zealots and focus on the future and not the past. It's a global economy now folks: Xi and Hung want your lunch. Every day spent complaining about Jose and Juan is a day lost as you fall further and further behind in the contest!

[dharc]

SECURE.THE.BORDER.SECURE.THE.BORDER.SECURE.THE.BORDER.SECURE.THE.BORDER.SECURE.THE.BORDER.SECURE.THE.BORDER.......Do you idiot politicians understand what the American citizens want?

[SonOfHistoryProf]

Did you like the wall in Berlin? Were you impressed with its effectiveness? Were you impressed with the message it sent?

Stop treating this as a social issue and start treating it as an economic issue - come up with ways to positively identify all employees, and then fine the dickens out of employers who hire ineligible workers.

the fence addresses the *supply*. If you want to reduce illegal immigration, reduce the *demand*.

[LawGratton]

ILLEGAL ALIENS are costing our infrastructure far too much for US to ignore this problem anymore. I have written you multiple times on this subject, it is time for you to measure up to your responsibilities.

ILLEGAL ALIENS must be picked up and put into deportation proceedings, and we must have local law enforcement involved. It is important that enforcement not be just for illegal aliens who have committed violent felonies. All illegal aliens must fear being arrested if we are to get enough voluntary departure to open up millions of jobs to non-employed American workers.

Don’t even let our Congress regurgitate that OVERUSED comment about “American Workers Don’t Want These Jobs”; I have heard it and I am NOT buying it! If ‘Roe V Wade’ had not murdered 35,000,000 Americans since it was adopted, we would have more workers available then the estimated 12,000,000 to 20,000,000 ILLEGAL ALIENS to accept these jobs…

The news is full of stories of illegal aliens returning -- or considering returning -- to their home countries in part because of the pressure they feel from the growing number of cities, counties and states that are enforcing the law. Local agencies cannot enforce immigration laws unless they receive proper training and funding from Congress. Dozens of law enforcement agencies are blocked from cracking down on illegal immigration because Our Congress has failed to appropriate enough money. State and local police are badly needed to help overwhelmed federal immigration authorities apprehend and detain illegal aliens in the interior of our country.

Illegal aliens currently outnumber federal immigration agents by 5,000 to one, and only 2,000 federal agents are active in enforcing the immigration laws in the interior of our country. Clearly, those numbers indicate that a limited number of federal agents are incapable of confronting the estimated 12-20 million illegal aliens currently inside our nation's borders and would benefit from the assistance of the more than 600,000 state and local law enforcement officers nationwide who come into contact with illegal aliens every day.

As of August 21, 2007, 23 state and local law-enforcement agencies had struck agreements with ICE, and about 75 others had submitted applications. Most agreements were signed in the prior 18 months. To date, ICE has trained 416 officers, who, in turn, have made over 22,000 arrests in conjunction with Federal law enforcement officials.

It is time “WE The People” stand up and demand OUR Congress DO THEIR JOB! We Hired them and WE can Fire them. Write Them and Call Them; Remind them who they work for “WE THE PEOPLE” and we will no longer put up with their Political Agendas.

[Jason Mrochek]

Since the subject of the SAVE ACT has come up, let's talk about blindly supporting legislation you have not read. All those who truly long for the days of a Constitutional Republic would never support the SAVE ACT.

What most people don't know about the SAVE act (and what most "inside-the-beltway" immigration management groups won't tell you):

Section 141(c) of the SAVE ACT gives a legal defense to religious institutions to aid and abet illegal aliens

Before the SAVE ACT is even out of bill form, it's unconstitutional, violating the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment. But let's put that aside for a moment and talk about section 141(c).

Is there a sane person in America who cannot forsee the total abuse of section 141(c) by the Catholic Church, since we know that the Catholic Charities is a huge proponent of anything that benefits illegal aliens.

Of course, we can also look at the terrorism angle: if a rookie terrorist with no current ties to a terrorist group (because he hasn't blown himself up yet) gets nabbed by ICE, if the SAVE ACT were law, a mosque could claim a legal defense under this law for harboring him and do it over and over again.

Gang, let's stop giving a pass to our elected officials for coming up with "feel good" legislation that only serves to stick an "I tried to solve the illegal alien invasion problem" in their hat, while at the same time pandering to the open-borders lobby for continued support.

Nancy Reagan said it best:

1) "Reading is Fundamental" -- read the bills for yourself
2) "Just Say NO" -- to blindly supporting legislation

You can read our full analysis of the bill at http://www.OperationBodyCount.com/SAVEACT2.pdf, but of course we encourage you to read the bill for yourself.

It only serves to weaken our Nation when we compromise on Constitution in order to pass what only appears to be good legislation because people who have done good things in the past are supporting it.

Keep your wits about you!

Jason Mrochek
Co-founder & Executive Director
FIRE Coalition
http://www.FIRECoalition.com

[Brittanicus]

Leading Democrats are in the process of gutting the funding for our poorly constructed national fence. The National guard now leaving the border, were instrumental in the construction and clearing the land. They never had a directive to arrest and detain only to observe and report. Pro-sovereignty groups have made the accusation that the fence has never been built to the original plan of double layer fence, with no-mans land of vehicle lanes between. Many locations have no fence at all, but vehicle barriers to stop drug traffickers, but not the thousands of illegal aliens who cross the border every day.

Chertoff has announced a number of times the miles of fence that has already been constructed. But according to Glenn Spencer of American Patrol activist group, who uses various resources to check on the progress. His reconnaissances using his own aircraft, has indicated far less in miles than admitted by Homeland Security. Today we must demand that the Democrats construct the fence as originally law specified by Rep.Duncan Hunter 'RESTORE THE SECURE FENCE ACT NOW' In addition the Democrats are stopping its own from sponsoring the Federal SAVE ACT (H.R.4088) No jobs for illegal aliens, so they would leave. Join in the battle for your jobs and our security. NUMBERSUSA.

[Brittanicus]

Diversity Alliance for Sustainable America. www.earthtimes.org/ stated in it's article that if the U.S. grants amnesty and gives citizenship to 12 to 30 million illegal migrants, as Senators Obama and McCain propose. All those naturalized citizens could possibly add 120 million U.S. and foreign-born relatives to the U.S., in the next 20 years whom all consume energy. Then again, if America adopted the SAVE ACT ,millions of illegal aliens would leave these shores, gas would be more obtainable. Today our highways are clogged with vehicles, but since Arizona started clamped down on illegal workers, the road traffic has thinned out. Along with nuclear energy, wind power, off-shore drilling these resources and other avenues might sustain us for years to come. Drilling for oil, natural gas in the gulf or both oceans, has new innovative methods that will not cause contamination. You must decide your children's future, your jobs by demanding Democrats sponsor the Federal SAVE ACT (H.R.4088 enforcement in the workplace) Call toll-free (2022243121 )
NUMBERSUSA. Tell everybody..!

[Brittanicus]

Backroom discussions continue on whether to de-fund effective efforts that deter illegal immigration

U.S. House leaders continue to gauge whether next Tuesday (June 24) they can escape public wrath if they take funding away from a couple of the most effective enforcement procedures resulting in illegal aliens leaving the country.
No. 1: 287(g) program allowing and equipping local agencies to arrest and detain illegal aliens of all kinds.
No. 2: Arrests of any illegal alien encountered while looking for criminal alien fugitives.

You can continue to phone committee members at 202-224-3121, asking for expanded funding for the 287(g) program for local immigration enforcement.
Anti-Enforcement Ideas Circulating. For additional unsuppressed details NUMBERSUSA.

[Rickster]

illegal is illegal. They are criminals and need to be removed from this country. If they are not removed, then allow others in the world to enter illegally since they do not have the convenience of walking across our "border" as the Latinos do.

[Jason Mrochek]

Both McCain and Obama are enemies to U.S. sovereignty. Both of them, in word and deed, have demonstrated this by supporting amnesty.

We are facing a slow-motion invasion of foreign nationals who hold no allegience to the U.S., come here to steal our national treasure in one form or another, and have no intention of assimilating.

According to our own government's reports, between 4 and 9 million illegal aliens invade our nation each year who fit the above description. If this is not an invasion as defined by Article 4 Section 4 of the Constitution, then I don't know what is!

I encourage anyone who has ever taken the oath of service "...to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic..." to reconsider the expiration date on that oath--there is none.

Our elected officials, who have all sworn this oath, are falling down on the job and need to be held accountable by We The People. Some of them are victims of a career of politics, others are intentionally violating their oath.

In either case, the solution must begin right now. We must begin to recruit and elect Joe and Jane Citizen who are not career politicians and who have lived with the detrimental effects of this invasion.

If we do not begin to find the right people to replace our current batch of elected representatives, we'll be in no better shape at the end of the next presidential administration than we are now.

Do not sit back and fool yourelf by saying "someone else will work to fix this problem." As it has historically, it falls to each of us individually to find a way to contribute to the return to a Constitutional Republic.

Get involved!

Jason Mrochek
Co-founder & Executive Director
FIRE Coalition
http://www.FIRECoalition.com

[Julia]

I think all know illegal immigrants should be sent back to their country. Illegal means illegal. They have no rights here and sould have no say in any manner. I think they should be treated good, but semt home. The illegals have been destroying America for many years. Its time you listen to American citizens not them.

[COL. [retd] A. M.Khajawall MD]

Please Compare And Contrast " Presidential Temperament" of our Presidential presumptive nominees?

Dear American Voters, reporters, media. professionals, political parties, and presidential Nominees,

1. Presidential "Temperament and Caliber".
2. Little Washington "insider Versus outsider" experience.
3. "Vision and mission" for our nation future rather than past.
4. American policies, " first U.S.A Centric" than any other country [ ies ] centric.

In my professional opinion Senator Obama leads in all above qualities and attributes.

Senator Obama and his administration along with congress will address all the critical current and future domestic and foreign issues, challenges, and opportunities in coming years.

Let us read and remember following concepts:

" Family, Friends, Fellows, Faith, Funds, Foundation [s], Fun, with Freedom & Fairness and without Fear, Favor, & Failure" . It applies to every citizen of our Greatgrand Nation.


Please stay involved, stay engaged, and stay informed. Please do not allow any seduction, deception, and or confusion by some partisan media and leaders effect your vote [ Psychological Terrorism ]..

Yours truly,

COL. [retd] A.M.Khajawall
Disabled American Veteran
Forensic psychiatrist, Las Vegas

PS: Please talk about the " Presidential Temperament And Caliber " of our presumptive presidential Nominees. We do talk about the "Judicial Temperament" of our Supreme Court Justices nominees and so far we have failed to talk about the " Presidential Temperament " of our presumptive presidential nominees. The " Presidential Temperament " is the ultimate and in my opinion only requirement of our president as that effects every living soul here and around the world.

Thanks once again.