L.A. Times columnist: Mexican wall shows U.S. 'insecurity'

L.A. Times op-ed columnist Gregory Rodriguez writes in today's paper that building a wall along the U.S.-Mexican border will "enshrine and showcase our insecurity. And whether you agree with the decision to build it or not, you have to admit that such a defensive act is an odd thing to do for a nation so proud of its global power and largesse."

Rodriguez is an Irvine Senior Fellow and Director of the California Fellows Program at New America Foundation, a nonpartisan public policy institute, and the author of the recent book, "Mongrels, Bastards, Orphans and Vagabonds: Mexican Immigration and the Future of Race in America," which the Washington Post listed among the "Best Books of 2007."

Read his column here.

Comments

[robinia]

Tuco Ramirez,

You finally explained the true heart of the tension of immigration.

One risk their lives to leave and "escape" Mexico to come to the U.S., only to "not wanting to adapt and assimilate" into the north-american society.

The "not wanting to (fully) adapt into the north-american society" is important, because most all immigrants from other nations -historically- by comparison have learned to adapt and "voluntarily" assimilate. This will always be the Achilles heal in the plight of Mexicans north of the border.

You are right on!

[Tuco Ramirez]

In Mexico, foriegners have few rights, cannot work, cannot own property and can be deported with no hearing! Why don't we do to them as they do to others?! In conclusion, there is only one place in the world people strive to live, America. Millions of us Mexicans have voted with our feet. What makes us strange, is that we try hard to escape Mexico, but will not adapt the ways of America- which we wanted to start with.

TR

[orly]

Mr. FYI,

I noticed, in one of your responses regarding one of my comments, you spelled "generalising" opposed to the American spelling of "generalizing". Do I detect someone from the U.K. (or from any of the commonwealth of nations)?

Cool !

[orly]

Mr. FYI,

Thanks so much for your recommended viewing of the YOUTUBE videos exposing a clear oxymoran that Mexican government and their society has to deal with.

Using chips to monitor its southern border, then not declaring "amnesty" to Cuban refugees and courting them to enter the U.S. on "our" southern border is a complete outrage.

It's too bad, this type of atrocity is not exposed more in the American media, in general and globally in particular. Not that it should cause more dismay towards Mexico, but at least, there could be a middle ground in which both countries could best address the issue of illegal immigration.

For cryin' out loud...globalization, racism, hypocrisy and greed together at its best and wrapped in one.

It is just not a "U.S. thing." Honesty, on one hand, it feels relieving that we are not the only ones doing dealing with such a complex issue.

Yet, on the otherhand, it is shocking - to say the least- that Mexico has its own agenda in dealing with "its" illegals and is totally contrary to how "they" would like the U.S. to formulate and modify its policies regarding illegal immigration.

It is solely about Mexico, isn't it? They could use extreme measures in monitoring illegals, but immedietely cry "foul" when it is their own who are illegal...

I don't know what to say? I am totally stunned!

[island brown]

Regarding the wall?

Let's turn the tables here a little bit, comparing the present Mexican-American diplomacy and "modifying" it a little.

Given a different time in the near future, in lew of the Mexican plight today and tourism, it stands that Mexico has provides a utopia of sorts for American retirees.

The cost of living for people at the retirment age has become expensive and unaffordalbe and is simply not feasable to enjoy your retirement plan and income in the U.S.

Over the years, Americans see the benefits and now yearly, the amount of Americans moving to Mexico, has greatly increased whether documented or undocumented. The strength of the dollar is contributing in improving the Mexican economy and documention was secondary to windows of opportunities the dollar can provide.

Now, you have a formidable amount of Americans moving to Baja California, (beautiful Baja California, may I add), taking advantage of Mexico's growing and affordable health care and quality-caretakers that provide them more than satisfactory services, not to mention the drop-dead scenic landscape and the hospitality of the Mexican people.

It has become a phenomenon, since the English speaking Americans now constitutes 12% of the Mexican population of 100,000,000. To appease and to continue to woo-in more Americans, you now have English only T.V. stations, English-only radio stations, English-Spanish job applications, signs and what not...so comfortable, you need not learn Spanish to enjoy a good life in Mexico nor would you care to learn of thier rich and formidable history.

In the meantime, these retirees are helping the Mexican community by providing health-care jobs for them and now is demand, which leads to demand in doctors, nurses, contractors building homes, hospitals, and other things that would make the American community feel like they are in the U.S. In addition, the dollar is also used when dealing with monetary transactions. 12% of the present day Mexican population means about 12,000,000 Americans who don't need to speak Spanish. Their children also immigrate to Mexico and file a dual-citizenship to stay near to their aging loved ones.

Communities like Ensenada, Tijuana, Cabo San Lucas for example, now have bi-lingual schools. However, at home, they are teaching thier children to speak English only and that they are Americans, and not American-Mexicans. You have to be true to your culture, because you have "blonde" hair and "blue" eyes, and your language is English and you are not brown skinned with black hair...sound familiar?

Now, you have a vocal and small minority toying with the idea of making "all" or "part" of Mexico, the 51st state. The reasons for beleiving this thought is that the contribution to the Mexican economy by the presence of these American retirees and thier offsprings, now have become a main staple to keep the Mexican economy afloat. Most American-Mexicans don't think much of the "51st State notion". Remember, it is only a few who are painstakingly and verbally making this commotion, most American retirees love Mexico. They see Mexico as their "uncle-nation" and the U.S. as their "motherland". They aren't "hurting" anybody, are they?

(Here's a thought, if one's mother and uncle were drowning, who would an individual save FIRST?)

Given that scenario, and there are seeds that eventually could promote this inconcievable situation that do exist, the Mexican government now makes it doubly difficult to immigrate to Mexico, and documention now is a neccesity. Of course, the American-Mexican cries foul. Why is the Mexican government doing this, when a large reason they have become an underdevloped nation to a nation of first world status is due to the American-born retirees and those Mexican born Americans.

Should the Mexican government and Mexican people not feel a bit "insecured"? It's only a small but vocal group, and given how the U.S. expanded to become 50 states, this political opinion shouldn't really alarm the Mexican populace, should it?

Mr. Rodriguez, they would not be "real" and proud Mexicans if they had no such feelilngs!

[island brown]

P.S. Mr. Rodriguez,

I'm speaking in behalf of the Americans who think like me. Regarding the "illegal undocumented workers", we do not hate them, nor for the most part question their love of their Mexican culture, their honor and respect for thier families, and their extremely hardworking ethics. (of course there are a few who do not uphold these attributes, but generally speaking), and some actually see the Mexican community as a whole in contributing to what is now the U.S.A, despite the atrocities and unfairness that go with the experience.

it is the "illegal and undocumented" components we hate. It is just not the U.S. government at fault here, may I add...

[island brown]

First, the insecurities that Mr. Rodriguez claims the Americans have is correct.

It probably stems from the term "Mexican" when used in the U.S. You see Mr. Rodriguez, there is nothing wrong with ANYBODY celebrating their cultural heritage. What has happened, is the large Mexican contingent, that make up the Hispanic-Latino population in the U.S., have a notion of not embracing two other coined terms that may neutralize their immigrating to the U.S., therfore opening doors of empathy. Those two terms are; 1) Mexican American, and/or 2) an American of Mexican descent.

The focus of being "Mexican" is built on and largely focuses on the differences of its experience in contributing to the society known as the U.S.A. It makes being "Mexican" more "exclusive" and the Spanish language a critieria for non-Hispanice U.S. citizens to understand. The large number of Spanish T.V. networks, radio stations and newspapers and periodicals are daily reminders of this.

By respecting the coined terms "Mexican-American" or "American of Mexican descent", rechannels the exclusiveness of the term to focusing more on the SIMILARITIES that Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Filipino-Americans and others can relate to in their present and historical experiences upon arriving to the U.S.A. It thereby becomes more "inclusive". In a mulit-cultured imperfect society as the U.S., that notion of American of whatever descent, formed a thread of similarities despite the major or minor "differences" of how and why they are here along with the English language.

For those who applaud the "reconquista" movement, and I'm sure it's just not the few radicals but also the Mexican government who thus far has not condemned the thought, the Absolut add can be a prime example of my concern.

On paper, it's cut and dry, in addition to being justified. What you have to remember are the stats. For the purpose of illustrating my thoughts, I will use round numbered statistics to make my point.

The Hispanic population in the U.S. stands about 40 million, roughly 14%.

Within that 40 million, what is the percentage of those claiming they are of Mexican extraction? Say, about 65%, or about 26 million. (We are solely talking about the documented ones - with much respect,)

Of that 26 million, how many of them would embrace the "reconquista" philosophy fully? Are there not opponents who think against your notion but are too timid to say so because of being a "sell-out" and really not being a Mexican or succumbing being a "puppet" to the gringo-regime?

Also, those from Central America, the Carribean, and South America not to mention the U.S. citizens from Puerto Rico, will they applaud your intentions? Many of these Hispanics from other nations are offended when being stereotyped as Mexican, I'm sure you know that. They came here to the U.S. for whatever reason, NOT Mexico to fullfil their goals.

Furthermore, should the American southwest and/or the U.S. be Mexico tomorrow, what are you going to do with the 200,000,000 "non-Hispanic white population", the 35 million African-American population and the Asian-American population which stands roughly at 10,000,000?

Also, those millions of new immigrants not from Latin America, who left their cultures solely to find a better life in the U.S.A, not Mexico, now find themselves in Mexico, how do you think they will react?

Who will tend to all these people that are a legitmate concern to your agenda should "reconquista" becomes successful? Do you think the present day Mexican government and its economic infrastructure is capable of handling such a task?

You see, the Absolut add paints an easy concept that is justified, given the atrocities of political and military matches. It's easy to move the map around and modifying to create a point given that it is a historic fact. The concept is easy to understand.

However, the consequencesthereof, may create yet "another" beast, you have failed to analyze with great thought. That is something to really, really think about. The fact that the "reconquista" rhetoric is not fully condemned by the existing Mexican administration, has awakened a sleeping giant. Should this escalate, given the tensions that pre-exist, then it is hurting ALL Hispanics who really just wanted to come to the U.S., to provide food, clothing and shelter for their loved ones and don't give a damn about all the political and historical facts that does not guarantee more food on the table.

Mr. Rodriguez, your notion of insecurity does have its merits. It most certainly does.

[grant]

You know, the few who lobby the rhetoric of "Reconquista" do have a valid point.

Another factor is the fact that they have "the right" to be here in a land that was "stolen" from them through historical ramifications. Again, valid point.

You see, I don't have a problem with that. Anyone, living in the U.S., have the right towards their own political "opinions and agendas". It's part of the idea.

But if you want to put your money where your rhetoric is, then might I suggest, ALL documented and undocumented Mexicans/Mexican-Americans who toy with this particular philosophy, not use the roads, the free-clinics, be employed at jobs founded by corporations, companies, or small businesses that were built and funded by the ones who you claim "stole" your land. If you can exist in doing so, and live off the land before the "gringos" supposedly stole it, THEN, and only then would your rhetoric have any substance. Create your own system within the system of those who stole your land. Then, people would begin to understand your plight. By not doing so, gives a notion that you expect a double standard and specialized treatment, which any government and its peoples -Mexico included- would see as negative.

If you were to achieve your goals under the "reconquista" political thought, then may I suggest you look at the Mexican state of Chiappas, who have a similar argument. The difference in their rhetoric is not the "Gringos" stealing thier land and culture, but the blame goes to the Spanish conquistadors and the present Mexican nation that prevents THEM from any autonomy and an eventual separate state.

Tell me something, how many Mexicans want to embrace the Nauthtl dialects which was the majority of first language speakers prior to the Mexican independence in 1821?

So Spanish was spoken in the southwest U.S 180 years ago, and at the same time Nauthtl was a prominent language on the verge of being replaced and subdued by Spanish. What degree and basis of insecurity prevents Mexico from allowing Chiappas to become an independent state and re-vitalizing a pure Aztec extraction culture?

Please, Mr. Rodriguez, you amuse me...Let's not even talk about how Mexicans treat its Central American undocumented individuals.

Mr. Rodriguez, you amuse me...if your going to talk about a certain "coin", make sure you define BOTH sides of it. By using the term "insecurity" to manipulate the side of the debate you disagree upon, is simply short minded.
and insulting.

To the moderators of LaPlaza.

If you wanted to make this a true Latin-American form, then expose more articles about how "y'all" treat your own illegal aliens which the Central Americans suffer in Mexico, the disparity of social-classes in which the indigenous and black Latinos are at the low end of class sturcture in Panama, Colombia and Venezuela and the few Latinos who actually embrace the North American culture and found a degree of success. Then perhaps the division which is exemplified by the wall and the outrage Absolut add manifested, may be looked upon in a different llight.

[FYI]

Posted by: orly | April 09, 2008 at 08:45 AM

RE:
i could not agree more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[orly]

FYI,

Thank you. However, most Americans know these facts. What you also need to understand is that "Spain or being Spanish" neither is a race, it is also a nationality as is "Mexico or Mexican".

; Causacoid, Mongoloid, Negroid, and Austroloid are the established anthropological racial categories.

Hispanic, Asian, European are political, cultural and geographical groupings for the self-convenience of the few who grouped them.

Chinese, Japanese for examples are names of nationalities, with a predominant race, and a language matching the name of its nationality.

American (norteamericano) Brazilian and Canadian are also nationalities, but have a mosaic-mixture of races. In Canada's case, the country is defined with having two official languages. While Brazil's official language is Portuguese. In the U.S. the language is English, despite what cultural legacy one has.

My point is, be proud of being Mexican - with a good- the bad- and the ugly. By saying your Mexican with 75% spanish "blood", is not saying much ! By saying you are 25% mongoloid (yellow-brown) blood with 75% causacoid (white) blood is clarifying the issue...

You are right. In the U.S., by making such statistics by Mexicans saying they have however "Spanish" blood, sheds a little bit of a "superior-attitude-example" this country has been "toiling-with much imperfections" to try to rid of. That was my point.

In the U.S., you think Hispanics are capable of making such claims? Or is being from Spain or "Spanish-blood" an element of superiority and an underlying statement differentiating them from Mexicans with more indigenous blood? From the north of the border stand-point, given your true facts, a Mexican-is a mexican is a mexican.

An African-American, Asian-American, Arab American, is an American, is an american, is an american...

Thank you...

[labra]

It's funny when Spanish-speakers make fun of how Americans attempt to speak Spanish...

With 11 million spanish-speaking illegal aliens who are lucky to have a "6th grade" education roaming around the U.S., and having 20 Spanish speaking nations that have a reputation of being corrupt, uneducated, lack of technical products, and a large perecentage of poor,

Explain why an American speaking perfect Spanish is important. A Hispanic immigrant speaking "only" Spanish already symbolizes negative, illegal, uneducated connotations. Also, you could be from Spanish-speaker from Colombia, but you are still considered MEXICAN, no matter how hard you try to explain. That is what the Spanish language has become world-wide. What a shame.

Yes, Mr. Rodriguez, insecurity. You got that right. Now what, you want a "free" cookie? The undocumented workers get everything else "free".

[robinia]

People...

I read a blogger stating that Mexico boasts the richest man in the world ! Carlos Slim..whatever his name is.

Now, here's a couple of points I'd like to make;

1) with TEN MILLION undocumented Mexican workers exhausting our free medical benifits, and uninsured drivers in the U.S jeapordizing our daily commutes,

2) Mexico's increasing population falling into poverty,

3) the U.S. Hispanic population is non-existent or not a factor in the universities nor are interested in higher learning. Equally important they are not a generalized group capable of vying for professional-white-collared positions,

4) A young African-American man in central Los Angeles is killed by a Mexican-illegal gang member, ( one example of thousands more similar incidents),

5) Mexico's economy dependent on agriculture and not innovative technology.

My question is, with these depressing images of Mexicans in general and with Carlos Sllim being the world's richest man, ..changes America's growing negative opinions of Mexicans, how?

When an illegal Mexican gang member guns down an African-American boy, who was involved in sports, himself not a gang member, and his mother is an active-duty soldier in the U.S. armed-forces, you better believe it's insecurity, it is also called ANGER ! And it is just NOT the white population any longer!

Ads like Absolut, does not affect your population South of the border, but what about the Hispanic population North of the border...now it is very uneasy for them. You made all Americans aware of a popular theory. But anger has a way of thwarting your plans....

[FYI]

mexicos hypocrisy must see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eltZsTn_LGc

mexicos wealthy want to rid of its lower class citizens want them to send money back to mexico to make them wealthier.

MEXICO UPSET WITH CUBAN ILLEGALS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a2-9sPeSoA

MEXICO TO USE BIOCHIP TO CURVE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATIION FROM THE OTHERN BORDER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eGvSnJR1Rk

[fyi]

Why do light skinned Mexicans think they are Spaniards? Hey, a mexican is a mexican is a mexican. You have a little bit of "indian" blood, you are Indian. I mean why do Mexicans care how fair your skin is, when as a people of nationality , the whole world sees you as a brown, uneducated, unskilled, corrupt and lazy culture. Generalizaion, yes....A flat out lie? Nope.

Posted by: orly | April 08, 2008 at 02:02 PM

re: because many are, race has nothing to do with being mexican, why do hispanic groups born in the U.S think/act like they are born in their ancestrial country? when they are generations american?

the world does not see mexicans as brown maybe you generalising from a AMERICAN pov because mexicans here have this brown pride thing, but speak spanish like a mutha.

white does not equal american, and if some mexicans cantbe white, then many latin americans cannot be black.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Latin_American

white has no connatations to nationality in the colonized west like it does in europe.

[simplerep]

Jamiel Slaw, a seventeen year old high-school student at Los Angeles high, was killed by an illegal alien, gang member from Mexico.

Now, you illegal advocates, call the wall whatever the hell you want to call it. But I double dare you to say it in front of the faces of Jamiel Shaw's father, mother (an active soldier who served and Iraq) and brother.

How many Americans have been killed in the streets of Los Angeles by illegal aliens from Mexico?

We'll see who is insecured then.

[CJ]

Right On ARIZONA !

[orly]

Why do light skinned Mexicans think they are Spaniards? Hey, a mexican is a mexican is a mexican. You have a little bit of "indian" blood, you are Indian. I mean why do Mexicans care how fair your skin is, when as a people of nationality , the whole world sees you as a brown, uneducated, unskilled, corrupt and lazy culture. Generalizaion, yes....A flat out lie? Nope.

[renetia robertson]

Why is Mexico against the wall? Will that mean the Mexican government will have to find a solution to provide jobs for its citizens?

What do you call a 20 year old Mexican with a univeristy diploma, single, no children and no police record?

Answer: A fairy tale...

If the Mexican government ever gets its act together, maybe the whole world would stop berating and making fun of their culture.

[renetia]

Gees, all lthis hate against Mexicans. I mean I don't like those people either, but not this much...wow.

[black-ice]

All African Americans and White Americans UNITE against any illegal Spanish speaker...ANY! To us, they are all illegal MEXICANS!

That's right, build that wall. Expect RAP music soon backing it up!

[lorne red white and blue]

After viewing a couple of videos on YOUTUBE, there is finally something that will united the black and white Americans...the issue of Mexican illegal aliens. I have never seen so much discontent by both blacks and whites and agreeing! Finally ! ! ! This where the English bonds the two traditionally ununfied groups, despite thier history.

(Everyone knows that all illegals are necessarily not Mexicans, but they comprise the vast majority, and a spanish speaker is a spanish speaker, aren't they all the same).

God Bless You ARIZONA...you got it started. Oh, call it insecurity, security, ity, pity or ditty. It is wonderful to blacks, whites united under one language and one common cause. The English language and the United States of America. Sorry Mexican illegals, you will be the sacrificial llamb. Oh well, I still love tortillas!

[elab]

There is a group of "white" Mexicans trying to argue, that the stereotypical Mexican that Americans see are "indios" and "low-income" souls from the pueblos.

One young lady was trying to convince me that Mexico is predominantly a white-country. What she was drinking,I don't know.

However, when I told her that white, black, brown, green or orange, the inferior factor is "you're still Mexican".

Don't people know what the term Mexican means in a derogatory sense. It means;

1) undocumented

2) Spanish speaker from any country in Latin Am.

3) no education, or very little

4) lazy, dirty

5) 10 children per family

6) girls are pregnant after their 15th birthday

7) hate the U.S., but only use it to make money

8) overweight women, and men with gold teeth

9) refuse to learn English because it will make them "less" latino...(good logic pickers...)

Wow, no wonder even Mexicans "hide" behind the term Latino or Hispanic. Well, who wouldn't. You think with all these negative attributes we give a damn what a Mexican thinks of the needed wall between the two countries?

[jc]

Americans who have problems with Mexican illegals are the low-income or poor citizens. 80% of Americans don't care if Mexicans are here illegally or not. Just as long as they do all the farming and picking jobs, I don't care. Once they start enrolling in our universities and attempting financial aid, then are candidates for white-collared jobs.

Wait a minute, am I listening to myself? A Mexican student at a University? A Mexican professional? How likely is that. Therefore, the middle and upper class have absolutely nothing to worry about. They already feel inferior. Let em' mouth off that this is their land and all that...so long they clean the toilets, cook in kitchens, wash my cars, and pick the produce, they could call me Gringo, Ingo or Jingo for all I care. Pretend we agree that it was their land. Then demand your cup of coffee with cream and sugar.

I say, keep giving all Mexicans everything in Spanish. That way, they'll only be good enough for unskilled labor. And we'll always need unskilled labor to mow my lawns. However, we have enough of them here, so I'm against building the wall.

Stupid Americans who want all Mexicans to learn English, think again...I'm fine with them not knowing our culture and language, there's always a 2nd generation Mexican who could interpret.

Have the Mexicans call it what they want. Finally, legalized slavery by using illegal citizens. U.S.A, we've got a good thing going. Look at it closely.

America, she's a beautiful country. Come on in Mexico, we need you, just don't learn English. You should stay Mexican.

[robinia]

It's only an excuse for the Mexican government to cover-up their own impotencies to provide jobs for their own people.

It's like a Mexican national refusing to speak English or learn it because of "LaRaza", or whatever. When the real reason is "they are too stupid to learn", then guise their embarassment by saying "our skins our brown, my hair is black" Spanish is my language. No it isn't, Nauhtl
is your original language. Spanish is a white-european language too. Stupid is, as stupid was. Mexicans didn't even know there was a language that was spoken long before Spanish.

Built the damn wall. and call it whatever you want. Just keep em' out.

Mexicans, I love them, everyone should own one. A legal one anyways.

Go Obama!

[robinia]

Honey, if insecurity is what you want to call it, then insecurity it is...My opinion is not just a wall, but a sophisticated "Berlin-Wall" with land mines, soldiers with rapid-fire rifles, barbed wire, hungry patrol dogs, and then another wall just like it, about 1/4 of a mile further.

Look, African-Americans ain't gonna build it. Let the white-folks do that. But they'll need Border-Patrols, and the African-American males living in the inner-city need jobs. And they'll be the first to tell you that it would be an honor carrying a rifle at the border. Maybe this would relieve their tensions that the Mexicans are taking over the black neighborhoods.

Insecurity, yes..I like to call it In-Security...Finally !

U.S.A.!

[M.A.Andrews]

Mexico has been gaming and abusing the
Immigration Laws of the USA for too long!
All Goodwill when abused will stop and
that is why a physical barrier is required
to stop human waves of illegal aliens
from flooding not only into the USA,
India built a wall to prevent human waves
from Bangla Desh from flooding into India
and built it in ONE YEAR!
Absolute vodka is HISTORY!

[anonymous]

Rodriguez is way off base.
We are not proud of our global power (remember we are at war?)
We are not proud of our largesse (remember we are in a housing crisis and a recession?)

There are many, many constructive things that can be done with our tax dollars. And our President is spending millions on a FENCE.
I am ashamed for all of us.

[Greg]

I have just one question for Mr. Rodriguez. Do you have a wall around your property, house, apartment or place where you live?

If the answer is yes, then I would suggest that you tear it down and allow anyone who desires to enter your property and have free reign.

This would make the situation identical and prove that you live according to the words and thoughts you espouse.