Latinos won't back Obama? No es verdad!

Political conventional wisdom maintains that Sen. Barack Obama is going to have trouble winning "Latino" votes because of historical tensions between African Americans and Spanish-speaking Americans.

But that conventional wisdom doesn't seem so wise after last weekend's endorsement of Obama's candidacy by Los Angeles-based La Opinión, the largest Spanish-language newspaper in the United States. In its editorial endorsement, the paper praised Obama's Democratic opponent, Sen. Hillary Clinton, as "capable, competent, disciplined and hard-working." But it opined that Obama "is the right leader for the time."

The issue of Obama's ability to attract Latino voters gets thoughtfully scrutinized in this Time magazine piece by Gregory Rodriguez and in this NPR "All Things Considered" commentary by journalist-blogger Daniel Hernandez. La Opinión, by the way, also endorsed Republican John McCain, particularly citing the Arizona senator's support for immigration reform -- a stance that has earned McCain the wrath of many fellow Republicans, some of whom recently expressed their displeasure in these posts to La Plaza.

-- Reed Johnson in Mexico City

Comments

[Latina]

I am Hispanic or Latina or whatever you want to call me. The point is I won't vote for Omaba because he will raise taxes and I am convinced he has some very warm spot in his heart for communism. I have heard his nephew's name is Fidel Castro.

[fyi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Latin_American

latin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin

the french coiendthe term latin america not the spanish thought they are both latin.

latino is the spanish, portuguese, italian word for latin used in the united states to describe those who come from latin america region, the indigenous have nothing to do with it what so ever, before cortes, coloumbus the spanish and the french came there was no latin america,

colombus did discover land for europeans that had no knowledge so in respect the land wasnew to them, look atit this way theres a soccer field and you discover it but there are already people who knew about it

[fyi]

PS. Has anyone noticed how white in appearance Jessica Alba has become now that she's "made it" in Hollywood?.
I know that's off topic, but I was just wondering...

what kinda of statement is that? i actually seen mexicans in mexico that are whiter then jessica alba. can you tell me how a mexican-american is suppose to act dress, talk?

i guess ignorance breeds in american latino cultures who know nothing about the racial makeups of their ancestrial countries what a shame. if anything she's americanised, she is half american anyway race has nothing to do with it. can you say all mexicans act the same in mexico as they do in L.A? no you cant inmexico you have alot of emo's. people are people she can hang out with whoever she wants and she said herself she was ostricised by mexican-americans because of how she looked, but these same ignorant mexicanshave not step of foot in the major cities inmexico where many of the white mexicans live.

how can a mexican act white, when there are different types of whites from various countries even in mexico

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Latin_American

[New York Chica]

>>"Why do you think Hillary is campaigning heavily in Texas? She is "underlyingly" playing the RACE card without even saying so. Latino's will not vote for a black man because deep in their hearts they themselves feel THEY are "white""

I AGREE.

And you can't pretend that this is not so. Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, Columbians and any other Latino/Hispanic people that either are born here or come here from elsewhere distance themselves from the American Black population with a quickness.
While embracing their latino heritage with one hand, they strive to be aligned with and thought of as more white with the other. Oh, they take on the "coolness" and "downness" of blacks, adopting their slang, clothing, and pop culture style, but at the end of the day, they go home and hate blacks. Just like the white people.
That is racism at its best, when you brainwash yourself into thinking that you're so much like "The Massa" that you begin to do his dirty work for him.

PS. Has anyone noticed how white in appearance Jessica Alba has become now that she's "made it" in Hollywood?.
I know that's off topic, but I was just wondering...

[eric]

Thank you Mr. Johnson.

Oh yes, to my "Latino" bloggers, I forgot to mention Venezuela and Colombia. All I know is this, if I want to donate to a charitable or political organization, I would travel to Vegas, place my money on the oddsmakers for Miss Colombia and/or Miss Venezuela to advance to the finals or win the Miss Universe crown, which they do annually and justifiably so! It's a sure shot winner and I usually double my money! You know, all Latina women are "generalized" to be drop-dead gorgeous, sorry for being chauvinistic, but this generalization is a most definite fact. Then, of course, I'd donate the proceeds to my candidate.

LOL...thanks again Mr. Johnson!

[Reed Johnson]

Hi Eric, anyone is welcome to post a comment on any L.A. Times blog, so please feel free to jump into the discussion. Thank you to everyone who has been contributing so far to this very interesting dialogue. -- Reed

[eric]

Mr. Johnson,

My not being Latino, are my opinons and comments irrelevant and not welcomed on this blog or is this section exclusively for Latinos? For some reason it seems to be designed this way.

[Erwin]

I'm wondering, if the U.S. had 13% of its population being first generational immigrants from Canada, the U.K., Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa all distinct English speaking countries, would Obama, Hillary and McClain be wooing for the "Anglo" vote? Would a Canadian appreciate being mistakenly coined "American?" As does the British, Australian and New Zealander? Or for the external and linguistic reasons, just be content and be considered "white" and considered "American" despite them being just as foreign as the next incoming immigrant?

Better yet, did one know that the Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai and Vietnamese have a different script in writing, social customs and tradionally practice Eastern/non-Christian religions which further defines their differences? If the powers that be think all Asians are of Chinese descent and display a bi-lingual English/Chinese translation of political issues to ALL Asians, how insulting would it be to the rest of the Asian nationalities who would not be able to read it and assuming they can? I know if a Filipino -proud of their Spanish heritgage and different because of it- is called "Chino", he or she takes great offense, as does a Korean national when mistaken for a Japanese national.

Then you have this coined term "Latino". Fine for grouping out of convenience, but I've been on the receiving end of tongue-lashings when I accidentally asked a Cuban if she were Mexican. I've had many instances when citizens from Argentina preferred the term European-Hispanic oppose to "Latino" by maliciously informing me that they do not have "indian/indigenous" blood and that Argentina is a "metropolis" society, whatever the hell that means. Generally, the "Latinos" from the Caribbean have a strong African racial mix. Mexico, Central America, Peru, Paraguay, Bolivia and Ecuador have strong indigenous mixture and cultures, while Uruguay, Chile and Argentina -socially speaking- are predominantly extentions of Europe that have a smattering of indigenous influence. Throw in the Portuguese speaking Brazillians - who would be categorized Latino in the U.S.- and you've got a mess.

In the U.S., Latino is a formal and politically correct term to define Mexican. As is Asian a term used to generalize people who "look" Chinese. What average American will take time to understand the diversity within both terms?

There was an article on the sister-political-blog Top of thel Ticket titled "Latino Generational Divide". Seems to me theres a natural divide within the definitive term "Latino Vote" as it is. This is the problem of the conveniently lumping multi-national ethnic and racial groups. Within the Latino and Asian communities in the U.S., there are distinctive differences, in lew of the obvious similarities that are often overlooked when lobbying for votes. And more importantly, they- Latinos and Asians- themselves are not unanimously unified just because of traditional racial and ethnical generalized groupings imposed by the powers that be.

Anyways, just a thought.

[SKY]

To the blogger Robinia:

P.S

You need reading glasses because that is not what I said about the indigenous cultures. Also, your stats are not all correct. Check your sources.

[Robinia]

To the blogger called SKY;

If you think my stats are bogus, then I suggest you "goodle" each nation mentioned, and then scroll to the topic of "demographics".

One last thing, in Cuba, the "black" population constitutes for 10.8% of the populace. In the United States, the African-American/black population constitues for a little more than 11%, the Hispanic about 12%. You and I know the power and influence the African-American community and the Latino community have in the U.S. Do these small numbers justify you to state that a certain group is DESTROYED?

The difference, we can mobilize and scream out our injustices and be heard, perhaps not accepted but HEARD. Our counterparts who are black and indigenous in OUR side of the world, who are NOT destroyed but accrue a formidable percentage of the entire Latin American population, do NOT have that luxory. How dare you say that pre-Columbian cultures have been destroyed! IN YOUR EYES, YES. In my outlook, NO!

[Robinia]

P.S.

Island Brown,

The indigenous cultures destroyed? No.

The indigenous cultures in the process of elimination? Maybe.

You know, should the U.S. government formally apologizes to the Latino community for its bigotry, racism and all the indignities that have been bestowed to us, then may I suggest, we as Latinos from different countries of Latin America to our black and indigenous countrymen -that thrive and exist- do the same.

Perhaps the "Latino experience" here in the U.S. is a form of poetic justice or are fully experiencing that cliche "what comes around goes around". It is a lesson that is deeper than an adjective that describes ones ethnicity, race and nationality. May we write down all the idiosycracies that has been bestowed on us and have it as a reminder of what we Latinos are doing here and now to the indigenous and black populations in Latin America.

This is all. May the best candidate win.

[Robinia]

Island Brown,

The blogger called "Sky" claims that the indigenous culture are destroyed. They exist. Here are some stats:

Peru - 16.5% speak the indigenous language of Quechua.

Guatemala - 9.1% are indigenous.

Bolivia - 30% speak Quechua, 25% speak Aymara

Paraguay- 95% are mestizos, however, 90% of the populace speak Gurani.

Cuba - 10% are racially black

If these stats were not true, then EVERYTHING the blogger named SKY would be totally respected and unchallenged.

Likewise, in the USA - the Hispanic population is 14% of the U.S. population. 80% use English of U.S. citizens use it as a first language, which means 20% do not use English as a first language. By these stats, is Spanish not as important as English or vice-versa?

You do the math. Check out the 2000 census from each country. Now tell me, are they destroyed? OR just being neglected?

Answer; It depends which "LENS" you are looking through.

Again, this is a presidential election, but I want you to be absollutely clear where I am coming from. Think of me as an angry racist like some people do and BOTH of you have every right to your opinions. But I think I'm a realist who speaks of an issue that is sugar coated by a romanticized idea that manipulates and focuses only on a popular definition of what Latino and Hispanic is in the U.S.A.

[SimpleRep]

The Latino vote, as the media portrays it, seems very deceptive. The American people need to understand its complexity as well as its diversity. We must remember, these are fellow citizens who have a common language but are from various and different nations that have vast differences in political, economical, social and cultural make-up. Take for instance, the Cuban-American, the Mexican-American and "South American-Americans" have three distinct national and regional personas. The Cuban-American faction had always been traditionally Republican based on U.S. policy with Cuba. The Mexican-American faction is sprinkled with a montage of diverse issues such as immigration policies, labor unions, and what people seem to forget social issues. The religious tradition of Mexico - predominantly Catholic - holds dearly to "pro-life" advocates thus creating a spring board for conservatives to make vital impressions. If you look at the increase of "Latinos" voting Republican in the last presidential election would it imply how the Latin-card is more than the one dimensional. Analysts explain this phenomenon because of the social and ethical issues perhaps that the coincided with the Republican agenda. Most immigrants from South America come from more upper-middle class economic backgrounds and other than the immigration issue have their own unique concerns. Because of these features, it would likely be a little difficult to analyze without proper surveys.

The African-American vote is more cohesive and "perhaps" more predictable for the obvious reasons. The Latino vote is not cohesive simply because of its many differences and statistics do not seem to illuminate this factor clearly. In my opinon this is a positive attribute, however, the powers that be need to be enlightened.

[SKY]

Response

Robinia,

Do you know what the Spanish did when they came to Latin America?? They did not only "conquered" they created a new breed of people and this is the "mestizo" that you talk about! Someone who is both Spanish and Indigenous. After, more than 500yrs, the Spanish presence can be seen and felt in Latin American countries like Mexico, Central America, Peru, Bolivia, and Paraguay. The indigenous were subjugated and made to be slaves. Their culture was shattered and destroyed. The books in the case of the "Maya" were burned! Don't you think these events will have consequences ?? That is why like Island Brown stated it is a "tragedy".

Now you sit there and boil about respect do to you and the black experience, blaming others for your "struggle". You know what I like who I am "Mestiza" of spanish and indigenous blood. I have accepted this and do not dwell on my history, simply, I accept the tragic truth and move on. I don't go around hating the Spanish-European people for what they did to my culture and land. Everyone talks about Columbus as a great man that supposely discovered the "New World". He did not discover a thing!. He traveled to another part of the world and encountered an occupied land. His ignorance and the ignorance of those who accompany him erased a great and knowledgeable civilization. There are still a lot of "full blooded indigenous " people in Mexico, Guatemala, Peru, Paraguay, and Chile and they live in the poorest- areas of the country. But, this is not my fault! Unfortunately, the people who run those governments in those countries are greedy and care only to make themeselves richer! Doesn't this sound familiar?Huh?

Now you sit there and want to pass judgement on Latinos for wanting to move foward. Nobody, wants you to learn Spanish!!! Our system and policies, and the fact that California is composed of 11 million Spanish-Speaking persons demands it!!

[SKY]

Dear Island Brown,

I appreciate your comments and thank you for sharing your experience as a Filipino-American. I agree, presentation is most important when debating sensitive issues like race or politics. There is no need to be obnoxious!!

[robinia]

Island Brown,

Your rebuttal is highly respected, unlike my feeling towards another "certain" blogger.

You know where I'm coming from based on your previous notion of why you voted for Antonio Villagairosa, and the fact that you are Filipino. I know that both the Philippines and Puerto Rico were SOLD to the U.S. at the aftermath of the Spanish American war.

However, your people, despite your Hispanity have been unfairly grouped with the Asian community. But, in terms of generalization, the Asians in the U.S., have been stereotypically coined to be innovative, educated, highly technical, professionals and a model minority. Jusified or unjustified, this is a reality. Most nations of "color" have languages and cultures that define "who" and "what" they are despite whether or NOT you speak the language of your parents today. Not so with being Hispanic. This is where my disatisfaction begins. We "HAVE TO" speak Spanish to be really Latino/a. Well I'm black, and despite what language I speak in the U.S., English or Spanish, I'm always black. What you may not know is that peoples of the Caribbean are not looked upon as equals with the rest of Latin America because of our black heritage. In addition, people who are indigenous and or have much indigenous extraction are NOT encouraged to learn the tongue of their ancestors. Spanish will do. We-black and indigenous- are at the low end of the social totem poll sort of speak in Latin America. What I have been trying to express -to some people- is that the Spanish language is not an umbrella where by knowing it and speaking it, we will live happily ever after.

Being "Hispanic" and a born U.S. citizen from Puerto Rico is considered "less-than" of being really Hispanic/Latino. That is BS! I'm sick and tired of people asking ME if I have legal documentation! Or, because of my Latino heritage if I have a high school education! Then having Puerto Ricans being a "sell-out" to the Hispanic community. Then, have people elevate being "HISPANIC" like it has no flaws and has not treated its people of color with the same indignities that African Americans and Mexicans have experienced here in the U.S. The one named "Sky" even strenghtened my point when she pointed out that the "indigenous" people in Mexico/Central America are looked the way the are because of their "lack of education". Why? Why the indigenous? You see, this hypocrisy,it doesn't mean I'm demeaning the beauty and the importance of the Spanish language, it only means that it is NOT the better of two languages and this is where I would like to make an issue. Cristina and Laura, no matter where these shows are taped, symbolizes what I mean. Yet this blogger named Sky feels there is nothing WRONG with a white host and a black audience, because she sees herself as "SPANISH" under the guise of being "Latina/Hispanic". Get my drift? There she shows her insensitivity of being black in the United States of America! People who were born in the 50's, who are alive today, still feel being sent in the back of the bus and drinking from "colored" only water fountains -which includes my grandparents FROM Puerto RIco for no reason because of their African features! And for her, and Mexican/Central Americans to dismiss that makes me boil! Thier Hispanic culture seems only to be based on how the gringos "stole" thier land and try to create this dilemna as the only reason why we HISPANICS must unite. Indigenous peoples of Mexico, Central America, Peru, Bolivia and Paragauy are forced to give up their living-indigenous languages to learn Spanish to GET JOBS in their OWN land. Did you know that? Then, they come here and expect people to learn Spanish for THEM! Do you see the HYPOCRISY? That is the heart of the matter. If these tragedies are half-way addressed, I would respect people like SKY. But it is not! It's just it happenned, learn from it and everything will be allright. YES and NO! It seems that the African American can best emphathize with my sense of being simply because they will never be "American" nor will I, black-Cubans, black-Dominicans will ever be pure Latino/a and the issues that go with this notion IS NOT EVEN ADDRESSED. That my Filipino friend is what separates incoming immigrants to this land and Hispanics. You voted for Villagairosa for the same reason why I'm voting for Obama. A BREATH OF FRESH AIR, and because HE could identify with my frustration and symbolically be a figure to "equalize" the playing field DESPITE whether or not I agree fully to his political agenda. I applaud you for voting for Villagairosa simply because you felt by his ethnic and racial features alone, is more of a comfort-level than voting for someone who maybe an excellent candidate, but cannot identify with your "INNER" being and exteior features. I apologize to the onlookers for my being in the moment, BUT NOT to the blogger named Sky. Notice, she didn't even address the fact that she would check the American Indian box when profiling her racial make-up? See my point? She's one of those who will check Hispanic/Latino and WHITE. So, when U.S. citizens harp on about the Hispanic vote, I only say what I say, to defy what Hispanic means to the general U.S. non Hispanic population. We are all not illegal, uneducated and some of us appreciate the civilizations before the pre-Hispanic era as does the Philippines of today. A mestiza person from Mexico and Central America who only speaks Spanish would be hard pressed to learn Nahuatl, Gurani, Quechua or Yucatec because it would be a step down and back! Yet, these language continue to exist today but are looked down upon. These LATINOS have a chance to reinvent what Latinos are, but people like SKY don't have the capacity to think outside the paradigm and god forbid people may call her "indio". We can't have that can we?

Thank you for your tyime Island Brown! And GO OBAMA!

[island brown]

P..S.

Ms. Robinia,

In pondering over my last comment, I'm writing not with the motive to criticize but more so to exhort.

As an American of Filipino descent, for the most I part understand your view regarding the Spanish language and its imperialistic overtones. However, Ms. Sky has an excellent and valid point, the Philippines, Puerto Rico nor the countries of Latin America did not choose its colonial experience. It happenned period. What is tragic, in the case of the Philippines is that, there are no longer enough Spanish speaking historians and scholars in the Philippines that can read thousands of historical documents sitting in the archives in Madrid and Mexico City! 350 years of historical documentation and CAN'T read it. At least Puerto Ricans can read and understand its past 500 history in its purest sense without another language to interpret them. The Filipinos cannot. That in and of itself is the true tragedy.

This is where I feel the Spanish language would be important to Filipinos, not because of the negative Spanish colonial legacy and its facts, but to look back, appreciate it (or not), learn from it and MOVE ON. Holding on to past atrocities is justified and it feels good, but for how long?

Myself, I encourage any Filipino/Filipino-American to learn or "re-learn" the Spanish language. Why? Despite what you say is true, they should re-learn it not as a reminder of its colonial past but because it is part of the Filipino heritage. Many Filipino nationalists will beg to differ, but it is what it is.

In learning Spanish, even as a third language, would not diminish their=the Philippines'- cultural mosaic and subract the importance of Filipino and English which Filipinos use simultaneously, but enhance a dynamic that is "engrained" in the Filipino culture, which is Hispanic. It's not to say this would elevate them from their Asian neighbors as being "superior" or subtract their importance of an Asian nation in that part of the world, but in fact re-connect them with the Latin American region in which they share 350 years of a common history. If Puero Rican is your ethnical make-up, and African-American is your racial identity than celebrate it. To deny either of them is a tragedy. This is the dilmemna the Filipinos face today and no longer celebrate fully its "Hispanic" component. Asian by geographic and perhaps racial features, American because of 100 years of using the English language and Hispanic because of its cultural traditions and religious customs due to its 3 and a half centuries with Spain. It is the thrid element in which many Filipinos blame for its culture not having developed in its own right as it did China, Japan and/or Korea.

Look, you could justifiably blame a father for one's insecurities because of him being physically abusive, a drug addict, or an alcoholic. But, Ms. Robinia, he is your father nevertheless! You did not choose him. Therefore look within yourself and be a better parent than he was to you. That is how you must look at life and this presidential election.

Filipinos have been lumped-in, as Ms. Sky well put it, to a categorial BOX of being solely Asian thus has created confusion more than a solution, in additon now that Filipinos speak English fluently not Spanish as thier second tongue.

But past and present leaders such as Gloria Arroyo Macapagal, Fidell Ramos, David Estrada, Corazon Aquino, and Ferdinand Marcos, the names of Filipino currency-peso and centavo, how we tell time- a la una, las dos, tres, cuatro (spelled kwatro) etc., how we define days- Lunes, Martes, Miyeokoles (Miercoles), Juwebes (Jueves), Biyarnes (Viernes), Sabado, the fiestas, and the 5000-7000 loan words/Hispanismos that are incorporated within the Filipino language itself are examples of why it is difficult for me and the "Asian" community of nations, to see Filipinos solely as Asian, but perhaps Asian-Hispanic.

However, in our American society where it is convenient to lump everyone together has its faults and that, I think, is where Ms. Sky is coming from. It is not fair for you to blame her for your ill feelings despite its relevance, because she has every right to uphold her opinions also, and because her opinions are justified by historical decrees.

To eliminate or to villainize the Hispanic element of the Filipino culture. as well as your Puerto Rican culture, at this point in history would be totally absurd, because it is so much part of our everyday life, whether we like it or not. If this were to be then, Filipinos would be eating "flan" "empenadas" and "lechon" with chop-sticks and not forks. But even then they would have to eliminate these from our filipino menu because they are Hispanic dishes.

To identify with the African-American experience is understandable. I'm generalizing here, but I don't think the African American would really see you as one of them, simply because of your being Puerto Rican. The "black" experience in Latin America has its similarities and vital differences as does the Hispanic experience in the Philippines when compared to Puerto Rico and Latin America. I guess just accept it, respect it and really not look negatively at others who don't see social and political issues through the same lenses.

But this is a presidential election we are dealing with, and we -you and I and Ms. Sky- can argue unitl we all are blue. But after the election day in November, we still have wake up the next morning and pay the bills, put food on the table, and clothe our loved ones. I think the issues that promote the betterment of yourself, your family and your community - as a whole - should be your guide to vote for whoever, with or without racial and ethnic overtones. Even if your candidate is victorious, you still "gotta pay the bills". The racial-ethnic element is justified but it is not the solution to erase past atrocities from administrations gone by that we had no power and clout to resist.

That is all, thank you and Ms. Sky again.

[island brown]

Dear Ms. Sky and Ms. Robinia,

In observing your dialogue, I find you both equally passionate and for the most part you BOTH are correct. I've experienced both sides of the gamet regarding voting in politicians. I, myself, living in the Los Angeles and of Filipino descent, and a registered Republican, voted for Antonio Villagairosa for Mayor of the great city of Los Angeles. Despite what has happened and the human errs that he chose to pursue, I do not regret voting for him. He is human.

On one hand, I agreed with his proposal to revamp the Los Angeles Unified School District. People argued that his proposal would be detremental to the educational system in our great city, however, my take was, ANY change was for the better. Mayor Villagairosa had the charisma, the experience and the know-how to project a change for the better for our youth in what I feel was a dinasour educational system. In retrospect, however, Ms Sky and I apologize for my motive now, voted for him because he was closest to anything "Filipino" that one can identify with. I felt, finally, there was someone who broke the WASP stronghold, who was dark-brown like me, had a name that is common to the Filipino people, and an ethnicity and cultural background that is closer to Filipino culture than Chinese, Korean or Japanese. Not out of disrespect, but with historical reality. It was and is a realistic component for any group or individual that does not fit the WASP feature. Mayor Villagairsa's candidacy was for the most part "a breath of fresh air" and symbolized overcoming a "wall" that had been built in Los Angeles for almost a century and a half.

I don't know if both of you know this, but the Filipino's strongest cultural feature, despite its location in Asia, is Hispanic because of 350 years of affiliation with the Spanish crown. The Spanish language, which at one time was a principal language in the Philippines, had been abolished, so our identity as a group has always been in question, Asian or Hispanic? To this day this has been the debate. However, in voting for a presidential candidates, this never really crossed my mind simply because most candidates have always been people that defined what most people think the U.S. is, WASP. You both know, that is rapidly changing, and I think this is why we are reacting the way we are and the candidates themselves may be "playing" the American psyche BECAUSE of it.

Many Filipino-Americans can identify with the Latino's historical struggle for a voice to equalize the political playing field. In a indirect way, they represent the Filipino-American culture also. It would be ideal if the presidential candidates were people of color from different ethnicities year in and year out and that all American citizens can just solely vote on the issues at hand by itself. But it is not. 35% of the American populace do not fit the "WASP" foundation that this country's political and cultural base was built on. Reality is, our skin color and the people of color who happen to be candidates bring this element to the table and into the polls. It is a mental "psyche" that cannot be denied, but most importantly should not be the sole reason to vote for a political candidate.

Please, Ms. Robinia, albeit your passionate views does hold some merit, I think Ms. Sky's level-headed outlook holds much more diplomacy and respect from onlookers, regardless if we agree with her or not. I am not endorsing one opinion over the other, this is purely observation. It is all in presentation.

With this said, thank you BOTH so much for your input. We live in a great land where we can "agree to disagree". Let's just choose how we present it. Thank you.

[SKY]

Dear Robinia:

You sure talk like an angry person. Is amazing how distorted your perspective is of Latinos. The sad part is that you are only 25 and you already sound like your 65 yrs old and bitter!

Our conquering language (Spanish) as you put it is part of us whether we like it or not. And it is a beautiful language. I am not about to live the rest of my life hating people like you do. Life is to short!

I embrace all people and perceive them through a nonracist lens because of my ancestry. Go on continue to deseminate your hate see where that leads you!!

WIGWAM!! (Whatever)

[robinia]

Sky honey,

When I fill out job applications or surveys, I always put 2 check marks. One next to Hispanici/Latino AND one next to BLACK....

We already know, WHICH TWO you check! One is Hispanic/Latino, and the other is definitely NOT American Indian, right?

They call this "WIGWAM" denial and "I'm not indigenous, but "European" just like white-Americans, except when I feel discriminated against then I'm Latino-brown-mestiza-SYNDROME".

African Americans thrive on the difference of skin-color and are proud to overcome obstacles. My ancestors are from Africa, as is many Dominicans and Cubans. We identify more with the BLACK community here than we do with the "Latino" being that deep within Latin America, spanish-speaking people from the Caribbean really aren't "Latinos" anyways, right? At least we celebrate our skin color, and all the negatives that go with it, even though we are "mixed".

Asian Americans kept their ANCIENT languages and speak Western languages English, French or spanish as TOOLS to better their livelihood and NOT replace their sense of being which is what Spanish did to ALL of Latin America.

This is the United States and I'm an African American of Puerto Rican descent. NOT LATINA period. I am no better than ALL the other immigrants who love this land AND I don't expect any special treatment because my parents were to stupid to learn English and then passed that mentality down to the next generation! Thus, developed a mentality where everything "English" is anti-Latino. You wonder why regular Americans silently approve of an "iron-fence" between the U.S. and Mexico and not the U.S. and Canada?

Then you have LATINOS, who come around speaking a language of a brutal CONQUERER and then justify it by denying the "indigenous" component and EXPECT the world to "understand" the difference between "gringos" and "conquistadores" and then be PROUD? So shut up and continue to live a life of two-faces. Judas! Go viva your raza!

[SKY]

Dear Robinia:

You certainly speak with conviction about the Latino psyche but you don't even consider yourself LATINA? You base all your knowledge on what you see on television and believe that this is a true depiction of what Latin people are all about. It would be ignorant for me as a Latina to base my understanding of African-Americans on what I see on BET or rap music videos.

If you don't consider yourself Latina or want to be associated with Latinos that is your right. This is America after all !! However it is disrespectful to assume that all Latinos lack the knowledge and conviction to understand the candidates platforms. Conviction is meaningless without wisdom and wisdom does not lie in faith. Perhaps, you need to be around educated Latinos to truly understand this.

Lastly, the Cristina show is recorded in Miami and most of the Latinos in entertainment in Miami are light skinned Cubans. So its not a surprise that a person like Cristina is the host. Laura is from Peru in South America and is of mixed Italian Peruvian decent. The people of Peru are a mixture of indigenous, Spanish, Italian, German, and British ancestry. Is it then surprising that she is the host of her show? I don't believe so. You base your knowledge of Latinos on what little television programs you watch and that is plainly ignorant.

If you don't consider yourself Latina then stop talking like you know the Latino psyche. It is apparent you don't know what you are talking about!!!

It is a shame that you didn't learn more from your AA and BA, it is clear you didn't get your moneys worth !!

[robinia]

Sky honey, when you watch Oprah again, look at the audience closely. I have been to a couple of her shows over the years and then look at her GUESTS! There's a contingent of Asian, Hispanic and black people in the audience and on STAGE! She is nobody's savior and the fact but EARNED respect from the ENTIRE NATION. Not by defacto of their skin color which LAURA and CRISTINA have exploited.

How could you possibly say that the "Hispanic-vote" of America has enough conviction or knowledge to understand the platform of the candidates, when it is in their psyche that a lighter skinned candidate is always better than a darker skinned candidate. And don't you dare deny this generalization either. This is the way Latin Americans think, and that will always be their deterent to become first world nations. THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

I forget, you are a coconut, and if a black person has 1% white blood, he's white. If they don't have dark skin or kinky hair, they're white. Please, you amuse me!

WIGWAM!

[SKY]

Response:

Dear Lina:

While there are indigenous people in latin american countries the reality is that the majority of the people are of mixed ancestry. Peharps, the issue here is not about racism but more classism. Indigenous people in Latin American countries are viewed much in the same way as Hill Billy's are viewed here in America. There is a perception that, for a lack of a better word "mestizos" are more advanced/educated people. Perhaps, this is where the Cristina and Laura show come in. To say there is no racism in Latin American countries would be false. And much of it has to do with education.

What I can say is that in the Latino community people like to feel a sense of belonging. Perhaps, these shows are a way to feel part of something where they can discuss issues that impact their daily lives. It just happens to be that Cristina and Laura are there to provide this avenue and they happen to be white spanish-speaking hosts.

If I watched a show where the audience was 100% black and the host is "blonde blue eyes" . To be honest, I would be impressed as to how far we have come toward race relations. The same thing can be said about the Oprah show. You have a black host and predominantly white audience. How is this different?

The media is powerful yet we forget how powerful we are! Perhaps, if instead of taking what we see on tv as face value we pick up a book or simply become independet thinkers. Then, maybe sterotypes and generalizations would be minimized.

Latin American media is no different than the me dia here or any other country. The media pepetuates stereotypes
and generalizations much in the say way. I'm sorry to disappoint you.

[SKY]

Dear Robinia:

First, I don't know what gave you the impression that I am MEXICAN or that I enjoy the fact that all latinos are thought as MEXICAN. I will not say, what part of latin america I come from just because I want to keep things in perspective and not be judged by racial lines.

Second of all, I don't know what WIGWAM means since I am not Puerto Rican and we are in America! I Let me be clear all latinos, hispanics, people of spanish ancestry, mulatos, or mestizos ect. are not the same. Your reply has clearly stated this fact since you don't consider yourself a latina. However, you do consider yourself a Black person in America and Puerto Rican everywhere else. Also, let me be clear, I know racism exist in this coutry and all other countries. You yourself just demostrated this in your comments.

Third, my comments are not to argue about what country I come from and express my "PRIDE" as a LATINA. But, to stress the point that their are differences among LATINOS. I'm sorry, that people confuse you to be Mexican when in fact you are a black Puerto Rican. But, in reality, is it my fault this is happening? Perhaps, you can voice your opinion to the lawmakers who made the decision to lump all spanish -speaking people in this category.

Fourth, I know that Puerto Rico keeps petitioning to become the 51st state of the United States but I don't think electing Obama is going to make your dreams come true.

I am proud of being a spanish-speaking person and I will vote for a president who demonstrates common sense and a realistic approach to the complex problems America is facing. So, for me it goes beyond racial identification. Obama speaks well and his rhetoric comes accross as genuine but can he deliver on his promises?? Perhaps, you should consider the same but I forgot your voting for him because his BLACK!!

Congratulations on your AA and B.A.

[sam]

I have always heard Hispanics get extremely offended if one is mistakenly called Mexican. Then I get this lecture that everyone who speaks Spanish does not necessarily mean they are from Mexico. In addition, Mexico is only one country of 20 nations where Spanish is an official language. Previous bloggers from different parts of Latin America stated their views of how and why they vote the way they do. I may not agree with their opinion nor do I think that their comments hold any water.

With this said, as an Asian American, why do Spanish speakers refer to all Asians as "Chinos?" People who are not Chinese find it just as offensive as those who are called Mexican that are not from Mexico.

Isn't the term "Chino" and "Mexican" stereotypical generalizations one who has slanted eyes, writes in chicken-scratch alphabets while the other who speaks Spanish, illegal and no formal education?

Not all Latinos will vote for Hillary, not all "Puerto Ricans" will vote for Obama, and not all Asians eat rice.

[lina]

P.S.

The reason Ron Paul wants a wall should not be "apalling" to Mexicans or Mexican-Americans. How does the Mexican government treat Central-American illegals? Hello? It's convenient to say "I'm Mexican" to make a stand against the establishment, right? But God-forbid one talks about immigration laws and how it is exercised in Mexico.

The immigration issue needs to be addressed, and the three candidates who made the most sense are out.

Go OBAMA!

[lina]

To the blogger called Sky;

Well put and eloquently said. The media is powerful and can "patronize" its viewers both ways. To think that Latinos worship white is absurd. Then, I channel-surf, and browse by shows like Cristina and Laura. No wonder the public perception of Latinos is identified to shows like these.

Tell me something Sky. This is 2008, right? Would you find a talk-show in the United States, where the audience is 100% black and the host is "blonde and blue-eyed"? If you did, how would you react. The fact that it is on the tube is indicative of what the media thinks the public wants.

Again, the media is very powerful. Please educate the media in Latin America. For this alone, I vote for Obama. So please, your comment is pacifying those who are in denial about racism in Latin America. Please, wake up.

[elm]

Today, Fidel Castro resigns. Look for Cuban-Americans to support McCain. The Cuban community is also an "exception" to the rule. We are a separate "entity" from the generalized Hispanic-Brown-Democratic pattern that has developed recently. The Cuban extraction, from pre-1960 to the early 80', has traditionally been supporters of the Republican agenda. Though, overnight changes in Cuba will not occur, McCain may be the symbolic "thank-you" candidate.

[robinia]

Sky, here in America, if you're 25% black, YOU BLACK!
Sky, here in America, if you're 10% black, you ain't white!

The problem with many "mestizas", is that if you are 10% indian, YOU ARE INDIAN....Spanish is your conquerer's language. So stop with your...America understand B.S.

I'm PUERTO RICAN in Puerto Rico and Latin America. In the United States and Canada, I'm BLACK and PROUD!

[robinia]

Sky honey,

Go back to your WIGWAM! I'm Puerto Rican, I'm black and I am rooting for OBAMA.

I'm sick of MEXICANS representing all other Latinos. This is why I hate the term "Latinos" because U.S. people subliminaly use that as a politically correct term to identify Mexicans. Well let me tell you something "SKY",

1) I have a high school diploma, college (AA) and university (BA) degrees.

2) I'm 25 years old single and DO NOT HAVE four children already.

3) I don't work at a food-store, wall-mart, k-mart and never have worked at a fast-food restaurant.

4) Puerto Rico is a commonwealth of the U.S., so, we are NOT, do you hear me, NOT ILLEGALS!.

I am a PUERTO RICAN. Stop using the term LATINO. People from Cuba, Central America and South America do NOT want to be identified with MEXICANS! Latinos, stop using this term and just be proud of your own countries. AGAIN, LATINOS are not all MEXICANS! Why? Because many of us love this country and have more than a middle school education!

I'm black, african-latino and I am voting for OBAMA because HE IS BLACK!

Quit fooling yourself WIGWAM!

[SKY]

You know this is the real problem with people in America. The tendency is to categorize people through racial lines. I am a mestiza according to my ancestry! But, being a mestiza does not define who I am. First, I am a human being and when it comes to voting for a president this november is about the issues not about what color skin you have.

Latinos, if you like to call us that, have a complex history! SPANISH is the language that we know and identify with because it is part of us whether we like it or not. It has nothing to do with workshipping the white man who introduce this language. NAHUATL is an indigenous language spoken by the mexica people (people of mexican desent) the MAYA spoke other dialects AND the INCA spoke their own too. So, it important to recognize that HISPANICS have their own differences. However, these three indigenous cultures were drastically transformed when the SPANISH came. Most Latinos are not 100% indigenous like it or not we are a mixture of both cultures and to deny this fact would be a mistake. So, to lump all LATINOS into one category is ignorant and irresponsible.

Just because we are minorities does not mean we have to vote for someone like Obama. Hillary has won the Latino vote because she has addressed latino issues with more vigor. So, please stop patronizing Latinos and educate yourselves before you get on your high horse and accuse us of workshipping the white men. And if we decide to vote for a white man instead of a black men that is our choice after all this is AMERICA.

[gm]

What is the similarities between;

... A spanish speaking "brown" skinned indigenous Latino and "dark-brown" skinned English speaking African American?

....Answer; Neither speak the original language of their ansestors.

What is the difference?

...An African American "KNOWS" that English is NOT the language of their ancestors and despite its hardships, celebrate being a people of color.

...An indigenous or Mestizo Hispanic does NOT KNOW that Spanish is NOT the language of its great civilizations (or won't admit it), and DO NOT celebrate - in Latin America- being a people of color. Furthermore, they are ignorant of the fact that racism even exists in Mexico and Latin America.

...Hillary, Texas is YOURS, baby!

[grant]

Please, Mexicans don't celebrate their indigenous side. They are ashamed of it. Cortez and crew did a marvelous job. Ask any mexican youth "who" built the ancient pyramids, they answer "Cortez". This is what Clinton - both HIllary and Bill, and the rest of America know of the Latin culture! If you can call it that!

Brown on the outside, but internally "white-spanish" in the inside. So when did Spanish become the champion for cplored-skinned people?

[eric]

Black is general color to define African-americans.
White is a general color to define "European"-americans.
Yellow is a general color to define Asian-americans.

Question is, how many Hispanics/Latinos would consider themselves "brown"?

I wonder, because "brown" is identified with "indigenous" and you know how lighter skinned Latinos view them?

For all of you African-Americans, the term INDIO used in latin-america, has the same derogatory meaning as when a white man the "N" word on an African-American. Did y'all know that? Hillary does!

Brown vs Black = division= White political provision! Go Hillary, go Texas! Keep with the conquistador tradition. Except Hillary speaks English. That's okay. She's white, and you know how all Latinos worship white?

Latinos walk around the United States claiming they are victims of racism, when the language they speak defines equally the same tragedy!

[eric]

Upon reading the previous comments, you know I never realized the "white host-brown audience" combination in Cristina and Laura. It does say a lot about Hisapanic people. Wow!

Have we taken it for granted the the Spanish conquistadors are no better than the British imperialists? Is this why Hillary thinks that Texas is a shoe-in for her?

[lina]

A brown-skinned English speaking indigenous citizen is proud to admit that he/she is "indian".

A brown-skinned Spanish speaking indigenous citizen keeps quiet about and more likely does not even admit the he/she is indian while living in Latin America !

Shame on you Latinos. You, under the guise of being victims of RACISM, practice it yourselves! No dignity and no integrity ! Just like Antonio Villagairosa !

[lina]

I have to admit, I also get confused by the "Hispanic" and/or "Latino" vote.

I watch various "talk shows" primarily Cristina and Laura. Champions of the poor. Funny, they are white and the audience is "brown". something does not seem right, here?

You mean to say Spanish is a "brown" language? You mean the Aztecs, the Mayans and the Incas taught the "white" conquistadors how to speak Spanish?

HIllary knows her puppets, doesn't she?

[islandbrown]

The Latino Vote?

Let's see? Blacks were forced to leave their country, pack their bags, come to the Americas, strip them of their identify, never to speak African(?) again.

The conquistadors, conquered three great empires, had the indigenous people pack their bags (in their OWN land), work the mine-fields, corn fields, coffee fields, strip THEM of their identity and language, never to speak Nahautl, Maya or Quechua because they are "indio" languages.

Now, tell me, what "really" is the difference between the Latino vote and the African-American vote? Better yet, why is there "such" a thing called a "Latino" vote and not an "indigenous" vote? The "white" Hispanics would definitely applaud that. Isn't that right Spain and Argentina?

[islandbrown]

In sarcasm, my dear Mexican colleagues once jokingly said that Mirthala Salinas defined the essence of the Latino voting knowledge. Powerful, confident and beautiful on the outside, but stupid, insensitive and shallow in the inside !

Of course, I had to ask, who is Mirthala Salinas and why use her as an example? Wow.....now I know!

[calasian]

Please no offense Mexicans and Central Americans. But why are two great "brown" skinned people ashamed to speak the "brown" languages that define your "brown" skins. So long that you "browns" are the majority, and you know you are, and you speak a white-man's language, expect to never be respected by all the non-white peoples of the world.

It's easy to see why "white" Hillary, who believes in abortion, can easily woo a brown-skinned people, whose "traditional" customs and religious beliefs are against abortion. Wow, perhaps the white man's generalization of "brown" Mexicans are true!

[robinia]

here is the thing "i don't get about Hispanic people".

the language that built the "Great Wall of China" -Chinese, still exists and continues to thrive.

the language that built the "Egyptian Pyramids" still exists, Arabic and continues to thrive.

the language that has challenged the European economic and political machine -Japanese exists and now its presence has to be reckoned with.

the language that manifested into the Perisan Empire,- Persian, still exists and is the official language of Iran.

the African continent, although submerged with colonialism still boasts their indigenous languages and many sovereign states have made the indigenous languages a co-official language with its colonial language.

none of these celebrate their accomplishments through SOLELY a "European-language". The languages of the Aztecs, Mayans and Incas have been so villainized and so degregated by the "beautiful" Spanish language that my nephew thinks that the Spaniards actually built the pyramids in the Yucatan! Then he wonders why that there are no pyramids IN SPAIN ! SAD, but true....

So Latinos, when you start using the term "racists", understand that you succumbed to a language that was "equally" racists but are too ignorant to admit nor care to admit what IT did to the people of color in the Americas.

I met some Hondurans who actually thought that Spanish had always been the language spoken in that part of the continent. Thank you Spanish! Oh by the way, vote for Hillary. You both deserve each other!

[island brown]

People are shocked when I share that I am a Obama supporter. I have brown skin and my last name is Gonzalez. They respond, "You are Hispanic, how could you!" I understand the tension between the two groups. However, there tone changes when I tell them I am Filipino and that for 350 years of Spanish rule, the conquistadors DID NOT teach us the language because we were considered INDIOS ! Then there is a hush. Now, tell me Latinos, the Philippine president wants to REINSTATE Spanish as an official language in the Philippines, do you think the Filipinos will applaud this "wonderful" decision? Hell no, they don't want to end up like the Aztecs, Mayas and Incas!

Any Filipino can vote for Obama, Hillary or Romney. Their historical experience justified them to vote for who the heck they want. Integrity is NOT dictated by a language and Spanish is defintely not the liberator to the Filipino people. In fact, we look at that language like the black man looks at English. Don't fool yourselves.

[roberta]

Hypocrisy seems to define the Latinos. Assuming they are correct, then all "white" men are the ones here illegaly. "Go back to Europe" is the battle-cry.

Generally speaking, you have these "latino" activists who say they belong here because it was their land, then justify this notion to continue to speak SPANISH! Last I read, Spain and "Spanish" are also a part of Europe.

C'mon Latinos, make up your mind! Are you white? black? brown? indigenous? mestizo? mulato?

Answer: You are ALL of THESE. But you don't talk about it nor admit it and you forgot to speak the languages of your anscestors that built the pyramids, created the most sophisticated calendars, manipulated the number ZERO, sophisticated irrigation modals...Nahautl, Maya and Quechua. These languages existed during a time when Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Hindi, Arabic and English existed. They still exist and are thriving. Look at what the Spanish language did to the beautiful "BROWN" languages in the Americas. Only YOU use SPANISH to express your BROWNESS...Hypocrisy at its best.
This is generally the reasons why Whites, Blacks and Asian Americans really have no respect for the "latin" agenda. It has no spine!
Your "blackness, browness, indigenous, mestizoness, mulatoness" are all explained in SPANISH! Another "white-mans" language from Europe! Do you see the HYPOCRISY?

You justify yourselves for being in this land! True. Yet, you have NO desire to learn the language of Yopi or Nahautl to express your adoration for your indigenous blood-line. What language do you express it in? Spanish! Another European language that conquered and subdued other "colored" people. But, the Spanish conquistadors did something that the British did not. They brainwashed the "colored" skinned people to think that the "white" conquistador was their GOD! Black people aren't that stupid!

That is why all of you will vote for Hillary. You are in denial. Don't jump on OUR civil rights bandwagon! You created your own quandary.

[robinia]

Simple proof of why Latinos will not support Obama.

All north Americans, please watch;

1) Christina...look at the host and look at the audience.

2) Laura...look at the host and look at the audience.

3) any TeleNovela...look at the principle characters then look at the "hired" help.

Racism is ALL over Latin America. The difference is, at least, in the United States it is out in the open. Hypocrites!

[robinia]

Why do you think Hillary is campaigning heavily in Texas? She is "underlyingly" playing the RACE card without even saying so. Latino's will not vote for a black man because deep in their hearts they themselves feel THEY are "white".

Okay, look at two grave examples before you trash this comment. Look at "Laura" and "Christina", popular Spanish-speaking talk shows. Here you have two "blonde-blue-eyed" hosts. Then look at the audience. Now, that is VERY, VERY pathetic! I mean, I have told many "north" Americans to watch these programs for this reason alone. We all get a big kick out of it. It is like the 1950's in the South all over again. Everyone is initially apalled when they watch these two programs.

No wonder, Cortez with his 200 men was able to wipe out an entire ancient civilization known as the Aztecs. People in Mexico will not even admit to even speak the language of Nahautl. That is the heart and soul of this beautiful country. No, they choose a European -"white" language like SPANISH to identify all that is Mexico. Peru, Bolivia and Paraguay also had the descency to officialize an indigenous language along with Spanish. Mexico will not. And people wonder why Americans have no respect for Mexico and its government. They speak with two tongues.

So, if the majority of Mexicans don't speak Nahautl, why do they get angry and Mexican-Americans who don't speak Spanish?

Grow up Latinos. Stop worshipping the white man. Look at your T.V. programs and how Laura and Christina virtually insults the entire indigenous population.

Does anyone NOT think that is racist? Even the "darkest" of Latin Americans worship the white-man. That is the "difference" between the African American and the Latino vote.

You know, she is very cunning.

[navi]

tony,
well, union endorsements really don't matter, according to hillary. in nevada, when she wasn't backed by the union, she started telling the people that they should vote with their hearts and not their leadership. interesting stuff for union leaders.
-navi

[Stacy Casillas]

Many Latino and Latino voters know that Obama is the one to beat McCain in November. He doesn't carry Hillary's baggage, even though she is respected in our community. More importantly, Obama speaks of real change and shake-up in Washington along with unity -- which is what the devisive status quo in Washington will not do. Obama has wide, cross-cultural appeal -- which is necessary to win in November.

Think. Vote Obama 08 if you want to take the White House back from Republican Rule.

[tony]

The United Farm Workers -- heavily Latino -- endorsed Clinton as did several Latino elected officials in California. The LATimes is too biased to report on this race anymore.