Octomom Nadya Suleman didn't know she was 'human guinea pig,' attorney says at hearing

The Beverly Hills fertility doctor who assisted Nadya Suleman in conceiving octuplets testified Thursday that she had volunteered for an experimental study that he later wrote about in a scholarly article.

But according to testimony at a state medical board hearing, Dr. Michael Kamrava failed to get Suleman's informed consent before using an experimental embryo implantation technique and was cited by federal regulators.

Document: Read the medical study

Kamrava, who also testified last month, took the stand again Thursday to argue that Suleman knew she was participating in a study. The doctor said Suleman wanted to participate in the study and that he spoke with her “extensively” about it.

“She heard about it and she volunteered,” he said.

“Where in this form does it say that?” said Deputy Atty. Gen. Judith Alvarado, who said Suleman had unknowingly been used as a "human guinea pig."

Kamrava's medical license could be revoked if it is determined at the hearing before Administrative Law Judge Daniel Juarez in downtown Los Angeles that he was grossly negligent in his treatment of Suleman and two other female patients: a 48-year-old who suffered complications after she became pregnant with quadruplets and a 42-year-old diagnosed with advanced ovarian cancer after receiving fertility treatments.

On Thursday, Kamrava looked on as Donna Tartaglino Besone, an investigator for the U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s Canoga Park office, testified about what she found when she visited his office Sept. 24.

Tartaglino Besone said she was investigating whether he had obtained proper consent from patients, including Suleman, for a procedure that involved using a camera to film inside the uterus when embryos are placed.

“There was a lot of confusion about when the study was conducted,” she said, noting that Kamrava initially told her he had conducted the study with a lab technician from 2000 to 2008, then later said he did it with an embryologist and that it only lasted until 2004.

In all, Kamrava helped Suleman conceive six children before the octuplets were born last year. Suleman is not scheduled to testify before the medical board.

Alvarado pressed Kamrava until he admitted that the consent forms he supplied to Suleman did not specify that she was a test subject.

After questioning Kamrava, Alvarado added a 10th charge to the accusation against him for dishonesty and corrupt acts related to failing to obtain patient consent.

“This doctor was doing investigational studies on human subjects without giving them a true informed consent,” she said.

After closing arguments Thursday, Juarez is expected to submit his opinion to the state medical board, which will make the final decision about Kamrava.

RELATED:

Nadya Suleman ignored advice, her doctor testifies

Suleman doctor says implanting a dozen embryos was wrong

Octomom's doctor defended by colleague at medical board hearing

-- Molly Hennessy-Fiske

Top photo: Dr. Michael Kamrava at a hearing before the state medical board last month in Los Angeles. Credit: Mark Boster / Los Angeles Times

Bottom photo: Nadya Suleman, pictured in a 2006 KTLA segment on fertility clinics. Credit: Associated Press

Comments

[steve]

Octomom on the warpath to secure her financial future though litigation... nothing new here... she knew exactly what she was getting into... octomom and her attorney(s)... what losers...

[Really?]

Overpopulation is our greatest danger. She has 14 kids in total. Gross

[Marlena]

All that matters is that she dam well knew he was implanting 8 embroys and that she was out of cash - so this would be her last shot at invitro - she is a total wack job and so is this foreign shister.

[me]

She did too know, she said on TV that she had been paid for being a guinea pig- her exact words! It was in June I think of 2006, she did an infomercial of sorts for Dr Kamrava. The only difference is she used a different name then, going by Natalie Gutierrez I believe. Come on LA Times, get your facts straight or you will just end up looking pretty dumb! Sort of like "Nadya" aka Natalie is now.

[Seriously?]

She is dirt poor, and suddenly this lawsuit appears?

Well to be honest, this is a joke, just a way to pull money by pulling the, "I had no idea I agreed to it," card.

I am sorry, but I hope she loses her case and gives her kids up for adoption. She cannot handle herself, how can she even handle her children?

[me]

She knew, she even stated it in Dr Kamrava's infomercial in 2006. She said she was being PAID for being a guinea pig on new IVF treatments. Look it up! She used the name Natalie Gutierrez then. She is a pathological liar, and so is this Dr. Lock them both up!

[Minoo Atighetchi]

I had the same exprience with this DR and ready to testify . I hd seen him on the year between 1995to 1997 and had bad complications. I hope his license will be suspend forever.

[Leslie]

She and the doctor are DISGUSTING human beings.

[Jenna]

In the past year and a half that nutjob of a woman has come up with dozens of explanations of how this happened in order to hide her scheme. Don't you think if it had been a "study", of any sort, we would have heard that as an excuse?

[erica]

I love how this is everyone's fault but hers! She already had 6 kids. NO job, NO husband and NO source of formal income - other than the state.

And yet she goes in for MORE kids. One kid or 8 - doesn't matter. SHE made the decision to do this.

The doctor should be shot just for considering her......

[Sandra Padilla]

Do any of you know if she is actually collecting welfare at this point? Welfare would consider free rent as income, with the amount being the fair rent for that house. If she is receiving large payments for speaking engagements, the welfare would also take that into account. I'm sure no one but her knows her real financial situation. But, the decision to have these children when she already had six, and no job, in absolutely incredible. One of the most selfish acts I have ever heard of. As someone else commented, she's smart enough to be in a masters program, so I'm sure all of this is just a scheme for more money she did not earn.

[Steppenwolf]

Is there a reverse "Darwin award" out there? If yes, the doctor and the mom both deserve one...

[igfootbigfoot]

I still think it's time for a paturnity suit times eight.
That doctor is the oco-dad and should pay until they are all 18 years old.

[L.A. BABY]

On her first T.V. interview she said that there were a few eggs left over and she didn't want to WASTE them. She also said that she saw a picture of the sperm donor and she fell in "LOVE" with him. In her mind she was in a relationship w/this man, she thought by having his babies that he would get with her for real. Yeah right what man in his right mind would get w/someone who already has 6 kids. I wonder if the donor has any interest in meeting those kids? She needs to get of her lazy ass and get a real job. I'm sure she can open a nursery and take care of more kids. LOL!!!! As for the doctor he's a greedy money hungry "Dr." who needs his license taken away forever. No one in their right mind would help a crazy woman get preg again knowing she has 6 kids already. By the way how much did Octomom pay the Dr. for his services? That's what i want to know, or did the medical people pay for it?

[Jane]

I guess this gives her good cause for a lawsuit

[Sofidee]

Nadya Suleman isn't a witless victim here. If she were so ignorant of the probability of 12 embryos producing a HOM, why did she lie so vehemently and elaboratly about transfering 6? What was with her heartwrenching tale about saving her little frozen babies???

Sociopaths have an uncanny ability to recognize people they can exploit. Between these two, the "using" appears to have been mutual.

[Daniel]

Will someone please tell this woman that her 15 minutes have long since been used up - we don't care what B.S. she has to say at this point.

[me]

There is VIDEO EVIDENCE out there proving she not only knew, but that she was being paid WHILE she was still collecting worker's comp.

[YT]

LIPSTICK ON A GUINEA PIG THAT IS....SHE'LL GET $$; IN THE MEANTIME; OTHER FAMILIES WHO REALLY NEED $$ WILL WATCH AND SUFFER AS THIS SENSELESS FREAK MAKES HER TRIPS TO THE BANK.

THIS IS A JOKE.

SHE'S AN IDIOT.. THAT'S WHY "SHE DIDN'T KNOW". PLEASE!

[Astonished]

I'm sorry, but any ethical physician would never, and I mean NEVER have aceded to any patients wishes like that. Suleman should never have been allowed to bear more children, since she didn't have the income or stable enviornment to raise them in. And what agency would give him grant monies for a study with his lousy track record in invitro? Kamrava should permanently lose his license, all of his assets should be seized and converted to a bank account to pay for the needs of those children, and there should be a provision that any future monies made by either Suleman or Kamrava must go for the children's welfare FIRST! The tax payers should NOT be saddled with the care of her children for the rest of their lives. We didn't bare them, and shouldn't have to pay for them.

[cora]

wow! she openly admitted she did not want all her embryos to "die" and that she knew he had implanted her with all of them. is this not enough proof?

just another attempt for her to get moeny from someone by suing, more handouts... what a lazy bithc

[Poucette]

The "masters program" she attended was at a second-rate community college. There is no proof that she actually has any college degree at all.

[me]

More proof she knew:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/video?id=6649339

Using the name Natalie Gutierrez

[Carol Olden]

If the doctor told her it was an experimental procedure, did he have her sign or did he file a human subjects review application with the State of CA and the Federal Government that indicated not only did he have the consent of his subjects to experiment on them, but also their knowledge that they were being used for research? Anyone knowledgeable about the rules dealing with the mentally ill, which Ms. Suleman Gutierrez supposedly is, would know that it is against the law to use any experimental procedures on the mentally ill, with or without their consent, as well as expose any mentally ill person to unwanted sexual activity or have relationships with them. I believe he treated her like a colleague of his as though she were a co -researcher with him into the field of multiple pregnancies and that it would be their secret that they were documenting their pregnancies to gain national attention as part of what appears to be elsewhere a man who runs the world like Dr. Strangelove. It isn't fair to children to be treated like guinea pigs and then not provide a lifetime of support for them once the experiment is finished, which it obviously is to him, and successful as her children made it to birth and through the first year. If he authors a publication on the procedure and uses her as coauthor, that would make it appear even more like a research project and less like a process to try to have a family by, which is sad for their children to go through as none of them gave consent as a living human being to be a guinea pig for research.