Should obese passengers pay for two seats? Kevin Smith drama sparks debate. What do you think?

Director Kevin Smith's dispute with Southwest Airlines after his removal from a plane over the weekend in Oakland touches on what for years has been a hot-button issue in the airline world: Should obese passengers be required to purchase two seats?

Southwest is one of numerous airlines that requires passengers who can't fit comfortably into a single seat to purchase a second seat. Some passengers have hailed this policy, saying it's unfair to them to sit next to someone who takes up part of their seat.

But there have been legal challenges and protests over such policies. Last month, Air France came under criticism for asking obese passengers to pay 75% of the costs of a second seat, forcing the airline to clarify its policy. Critics argued the plan discriminated against people because of their weight.

United Airlines started charging obese passengers for a second seat last year. According to airline officials, United has received more than 700 complaints from passengers saying obese passengers  encroached on their seats.

In Canada, the government and courts have ruled that airlines must provide "clinically obese" passengers with an extra seat for no charge. Supporters of the policy said it will allow more disabled people to travel.

In the case of Smith, the director was outraged that he was told by airline employees to leave the plane even though he insisted that he fit in his seat.

"I know I'm fat, but was [the airline] really justified in throwing me off a flight for which I was already seated?" he wrote. "I broke no regulation, offered no safety risk."

Smith said the incident took place Saturday and that he was eventually able to make it to L.A. on another Southwest flight.

Southwest issued an apology to Smith on its Twitter feed. "We are sincerely sorry for your travel experience on Southwest Airlines," the airline said in a statement.

What do you think? Should obese passengers pay for two seats? Or is that discrimination? Share your view.

--Shelby Grad

Comments

[fishcado]

The only thing that's fat is his ego for the crap he puts out. By the way, can the glasses, they don' t make you look any slimmer chubsy-ubsy.

[Chris]

this is the dumbest debate ever. you don't have a right to fly. if you butt doesn't fit into the seat the airline provides then pay for a second and third seat. it doesn't matter how much the airlines have reduced the seats, they can make the seats 2 inches across if they think they can make more money. again you don't have any "right" to board a plane.

most airlines, swa in particular won't charge for the second seat unless the flight is full.

[Susan Alexander Llauget]

Obese people should have to pay for two seats. I have had the unfortunate experience of sitting next to obese people on two different flights and I haven't been able to use my whole seat.
I have a bad back and sitting at an angle because someone else is spilling over into my seat made my back ache for the entire five and a half hour flight.
Why should I have had to deal with pain caused by someone else's over indulgence? in eating.

[4everyman]

If all obese persons suffered from that condition as a result of factors beyond their control, they would present a case for empathy. The fact is that a significant percentage of Americans are obese because they overeat and fail to exercise. In Mr. Smith's case it is apparent that is the case - when he broke a toilet by his own admission he conceded as much. While he contends he met the airlines criteria for one seat, that is a self serving declaration that should besubject to a great deal of scrutiny. Even if he were able to technically fit in the seat what about the rights of the poor soul (or souls if he had the middle seat) who would be forced to sit adjacent to him. No one seems to be talking to about that person.

Mr. Smith's rection is so typically adolescent as we have come to expect from the Hollywood crowd. Cursing and raging about his rights yet shirking his responsibilities. I can't help but suspect that he is an likely an advocate for a form of health care reform that would require all of us to support his unhealthy habits.

[BOOYA]

Shirley this is discriminate to segregate...
and I will quit calling you shirley...:)
yes...giant steps back discriminating and
segregating people...
what do you expect next ?...signs that say no
over-weight allowed here...no over-weight served
here...they might as well start going back in time and
put up signs that clearly discriminate and segregate people
after all this is the year 2010 and proves alot of people don't
obey the Constitution .

[newsPoster]

Of course they should. Who wants to sit beside someone who is encroaching on my paid seat. Maybe they could charge me half ticket price for sharing my seat with a fat person. Same needs to apply to the movie theater as well.

[Dusty]

I'm not obese at all, I'm 5'10" and have a 36 inch waist. I was an athlete (wrestler) in college and I'm still in pretty good shape.

That said, I just took a Southwest flight yesterday and shoulder-to-shoulder I am about 8 inches wider than the seats on the 737 we were on. The only way for me to stay out of the other passengers' way was to sit, with my arms folded for 2 1/2 hours. Insanely uncomfortable.

Sometimes, it has nothing to do with being obese. The seats are just ridiculously small.

[DRE DAWG]

Yes, they should pay. Your ticket is for one seat and one seat only. If the extra 60+ pounds spills into the other seat, then you have to purchase that space you use as well.

There is no debate here.

[Wayne]

Absolutely, they should have to pay for two seats. From the airlines perspective it is more expensive to transport an obese person than a skinny person, because it takes more fuel for the extra weight. We have all sat next to an obese person on a plane, they spill over into your seat leaving you 2/3 of the space that you paid for. Perhaps obese people should be compensating those they are sitting next to, pay 1/3 of each of their neighbors ticket price. I don't feel this is an issue of discrimination, it is a fair practice to ensure the comfort and safety of all passengers. Do we call it discrimination when smokers can't smoke on airlines? Clearly fat/obese people have an eating disorder, let's work to help them with their eating problems. This is a larger issue in our country that people have unhealthy eating habits. By focusing more on helping the population through nutrition education and exercise we can ensure we have a healthy nation going forward.

[Glenn E Patch]

Airlines should install a butt Checker seat at the check-in counter. They already have a carry on bag size check.
This is not discrimination.
The seats are so big and it cost more to carry 350 lbs across the country that 140 lbs. Plus, its not fair to me if I have to set next to someone whose big arms and butt is taking up half my seat.
They should walk, drive, fly first class or buy two seats, but should not be able to buy a cheap seat in the back if they cannot fit into it.

[Doug]

I'm 6' 0" and run about 230 lbs. and I know that's in the big category. I'm also broad shouldered and barrel chested. I've been in public transportation (trains, buses) where I know that the passenger next to me is trying to keep from rubbing shoulders, as I am also. Same goes for air travel. I think that we try to make the best of it; it's just courtesy.

There are rides that I can't get on at the amusement parks because of leg room, or the safety bar won't close over my chest. I'd love to go on them, but wouldn't think of compromising my safety by making myself try to fit.

He had purchased 2 seats on a later flight, but switched to an earlier flight for his convenience. Southwest didn't have 2 seats together on that flight. That's the nature of air travel, it's not a perfect thing.

Get over the entitlement. This is an adult version of a tantrum, not a civil rights issue.

There are bigger problems in life.

[Lisa Mc]

So.....children under 2 fly free, as long as they sit on the lap of the (paying) parent. However, I've been told that if I want to put my infant in a seperate seat, I'm going to have to pay for the seat. Am I being descriminated against? No. And neither are fat people. There is an absolute in measurement here. Can you put the armrests down? Yes? Ok. You're in. The only exception to the armrest rule is if the person next to you is travelling with you and doesn't mind you spilling over into their seat. So long as you dont' spill over into the seat on the other side of you.

[Victoria D]

Of course people that can't fit into a seat should pay for an extra seat! Airlines charge for extra baggage and everything else under the sun nowadays - why shouldn't they charge for the "extra baggage" you carry that can't be stored under your seat or in the overhead rack. Maybe when you go through security screening, you should be weighed or have to fit through an opening similar to the diameter of a coach seat and if you are weigh too much or can't easily fit through, then you can then be offered a solution of purchasing another seat - or not. Another solution would be to offer some bigger seats that heavier people can fit into - OH, they already do that! It's called business or 1st class. Fat people have options: buy a seat in business class, lose the weight, or take a train. They already have choices! They didn't gain that weight while waiting to get on the plane so I have to add that the airline made a poor choice of letting him on the airplane in the 1st place and causing every other passenger to have to wait while they asked this man to leave. I don't care if he is semi-famous or not - that shouldn't even be an issue.

[Noel S.]

This might not be related to the question but I believe airlines should charge customers by their luggage & body weight. If you think about it, an airplane waste more gasoline the heavier it is. In turn, the airlines should put a few extra seats that are wider for bigger people (it's extra income for them). I, being a person that weights 250 lbs, believe this is the only fair method to spread the cost of the fuel and space used for large individuals. This will also motivate me to lose weight or at the very least, take a train or bus.

[melissa]

Forget about Smith's self-promotion. It's about weight, and therefore fuel, and therefore costs. It's not about meanness or insensitivity. The average American is 24 pounds heavier than in 1960. That's an alarming increase. In terms of fuel consumption, heavier people use more fuel, and generate more C02 traveling from A to B.

While excess body weight is an individual prerogative, it is also an environmental problem: as American waistlines have expanded since 1960, so has their consumption of gasoline, researchers at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and Virginia Commonwealth University said in 2006. Americans are now pumping 938 million gallons of fuel more annually than they were in 1960 as a result of extra weight in vehicles. The sample applies to planes.

The FAA banned smoking on American flights years ago. Smoking bans across the nation have had a beneficial effect on reducing numbers of smokers. An extra seating cost for heavy passengers offers a useful disincentive to those who are obese for lifestyle reasons (and an incentive to drop some weight). Harsh, but true. We should encourage taxpayers to wake up and support physical education and nutrition education in schools. Our health and transportation costs would drop measurably.

[LA Rez]

Yes, unless and until the airlines build planes with bigger seats, absolutely if you don't fit in your seat you should have to buy two seats. It is completely unfair to have a person that doesn't fit in their own seat ooze over in your space the entire ride. Because you choose a lifestyle that makes you overweight doesn't mean I should be forced to suffer from your bad decisions. I think we should start treating obesity like smoking and let people know it is not healthy and a bad lifestyle choice. It's not ok to be fat, you are straining our healthcare system and they should pay more for health insurance too.

[Lou]

Fat people should pay more for everything. Larger portions, larger space, Higher premiums for healthcare. Let's face it. They consume more, and need to pay more. God knows their portion of the healthcare bill is disproportionate as they tend to suffer more health related problems like Diabetes and premature heart disease.

What's fair is fair. They just need to trim down a bit if they don't like the discrimination.

[Jeff]

The issue for me is not whether the obese passenger has to pay for an extra seat; it is the protection of the the space that I have paid for.
I have paid for a seat between point A and B and I should not be required to share it with another human who is too large to sit entirely in the seat that they have paid for.
If you ask me they should put a "fat row" of seats in each airplane and allow oversized people to sit there (whether they charge or not is the airline's business). When the airlines don't have oversized people on the flight they could easily charge a premium for those seats or allow their frequent flyers to use them.

[inadcon]

I think if we will charge every overweight person extra that we should charge tall, smelly and handicapped extra as well. I think people who smoke cigs or drink to excess are also a problem for fellow travelers. Oh kids and babies on laps should be charged for seats. What do we do with tall people whose elbows and knees splay into space beyond their alloted 1' x1' space. Don't forget people with bad dental smells and the ones with large bags on their laps or who sleep and end up leaning on you? Also those with overwhelming stinky perfume or cologne, large feet that step on your feet.... Tolerance might serve you all well...Think about it, you are also imperfect, all of you

[Michele Coppola]

A Fat Person's Take On Kevin Smith's Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day:

As a fat person, I understand the risks I take being obese. Aside from the increased health risks, you're not going to be able to ride some roller coasters, fit into stylish skinny jeans, or fly Southwest. On the plus side, I eat all the pizza I want, rarely break a sweat unless I'm dancing, and don't obssess over my looks.

I adore Kevin Smith's movies, but this guy needs to "own" his weight and all that goes with it; and even though he says he "knows" he's fat, his blog states unequivocally that what he wants more than anything is for Southwest to say publicly that he's not too fat to fly. The fact is, on that day, Kevin, you were too fat to fly Southwest and they were perfectly within their rights to enforce their policies.

But Southwest - and all U.S. carriers for that matter - are to blame for POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE. They have decreased the size of their seats on their heifer haulers to get more revenue for each trip at the same time that Americans are getting larger,and they publicly and unecessarily embarrassed a regular customer. But worse is the fact that Southwest is twisting iself into a pretzel trying to appease a celebrity, when the rest of us fatsos would simply be ejected and told to put down the fork.

More at: www.coppolawords.com

[Henry T]

Definitely. Obese passengers need to buy 2 seats when necessary.
It is not discrimination. Its common sense.

If you are too big for one seat, you need to buy an extra seat.
Don't expect the person next to you to suffer seating next to you.

As for Kevin Smith. Tell us Kevin, what about the person seating next to you?
You are okay with taking part of their space? You are okay with the person next to you be uncomfortable?

Kevin, you know you are fat so stop bitching and buy the extra seat!!

[Kumar]

How about addressing the question of airlines seats getting smaller to fly more passengers?. What is considered an acceptable weight today can soon be obese tomorrow. Then What?. Should we all strive to have our weights dictated by a commercial business?

[Donnie]

If you can afford to super size the you can afford 2 seats

[Gary]

Hello Southwest:
I will continue to fly SWA and I think that the large people (I don’t like to use the F*T word, it is rude) complaining are being selfish and not thinking about their own health or other people's comfort. Being overweight is something a person can do something about. I used to be a little overweight (20 pounds) and by age 40 I had diabetes and by age 48 needed a quadruple bypass (diabetics have a 4x greater chance of heart issues than “normal” people). Now for the last 10 years I have watched my diet and exercised and keep my weight and blood sugar normal. I am NOT pointing fingers at people with weight problems, I hear your pain and it is VERY difficult sometimes to watch my diet (the weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas with all the holiday parties can be HE*LL) but I do it because I NEVER want a bypass again. So please overweight people, before you get mad at me, please think about your health and be honest with yourself that you are not doing what you need to do to stay healthy,
Having said that, when I pay for a seat I do NOT want to share my space with someone too large to fit in the seat he/she paid for. It is not my responsibility; it is not the airlines responsibility to accommodate you. Buy two or three seats (if needed) and live with it.
As for any further legal action by the director, if the seat doesn’t fit we must acquit.

[CLS]

Celebrating obesity or even debating its acceptability is like okaying drug addiction or alcoholism. Obesity is a choice and a disease which for some unknown reason gets a free pass from American society. It is not a condition beyond one's control anymore than alcoholism or drug addiction is beyond one's control. Obese people consume too many calories and lack self control in their eating. It is now time for soceity to pass judgement on this deadly condition and put obese people in the same category as drug addicts and alcoholics.

I know this from first hand experience. While there are underlying reasons for obesity there are similar reasons for drug addiction/alcoholism. I am not going to hire an active alky or druggie and if I can help it I won't hire a morbidly obese one either. That is not decrimination, it is simple reality. I do not want this obviously sick person on my work force for obvious reasons.

In the end it is OK to deny services and opportunities to obese people as it is OK to do the same with addicts or alcoholics. They are all manifesting illness but the obese ones are up to this point being given a free pass. It is all about self control and nothing else. Those who attempt to justify it or rationalize it (for professional gain of course) are exploiting these sick people for financial gain. If you do not want to be additced don't do drugs. If you do not want to become an active alcoholic don't drink (I know this for a fact). If you don't want to be morbidly obese don't eat too much. Self control and nothing else is at play here and the shrinks and enablers are responsible for most of the crap that has let it get this far.