Mother, 2 daughters and female relative found dead in San Clemente home [Updated]

A 38-year-old mother and her two daughters, ages 2 1/2 and 4, were among four family members found dead in a home in a gated San Clemente neighborhood, authorities said this morning.

Another relative, a woman in her 60s, also was found dead in the home on Calle Sonador, said Jim Amormino, a spokesman for the Orange County Sheriff’s Department.

[Updated at 9:51 a.m.: Authorities are now calling the case a murder-suicide. The bodies found in the hallway were so close together they were touching, authorities said. But they still cannot say how the family died and who the killer was.

“There's no question the two children were killed first, and one of the adult females is the killer, which is unusual by itself,” Amormino said. Investigators are awaiting the results of an autopsy, which is expected to identify the victims and causes of death.]

Authorities are working to notify their relatives while the coroner examines the bodies. They expect to release the victims' names and the suspected cause of death later this morning, Amormino said. He said the girls' father is not a suspect in the case.

"We know where the father was, and the father was nowhere near the crime scene." Amormino said.

Officials have not said how the four died but are investigating the slayings as a domestic dispute or child- custody battle.

The victims were apparently found lying together in a hallway on the second floor of the home after deputies arrived shortly before 2 p.m. Monday on a "welfare check," Amormino said.

"We are conducting an active death investigation," he said, adding the crime was confined to the house. "There's no killer out there. The incident is contained to that residence."

Neighbors apparently alerted the homeowner about a possible domestic dispute in the Talega neighborhood. The owner then called deputies to check on the residents because he felt "something just wasn't right," Amormino said. The owner said the tenant had a house full of visitors.

If classified as homicides, they would be the first of the year for the city of 61,000 just north of Camp Pendleton, according to officials at the sheriff’s department's San Clemente station.

The only killings in San Clemente in 2008 also took the lives of a family living in a gated community.

Last May, two young women, their parents and a grandmother killed themselves in their San Clemente home, using Vicodin, sleeping pills, antidepressants and a gun. Police closed the case after a six-month investigation.

-- Tony Barboza and Robert J. Lopez

Comments

[Joe Poe]

There were at least 3 other murders in 2008 in San Clemente...THE LATEST: Capistrano Beach resident Juan Montes Jr. was found dead Wednesday, August 13, 2008 at San Luis Rey Park next to San Clemente Municipal Golf Course. Montes, 26, the apparent victim of murder was a longtime member of the Varrio Chico street gang in San Clemente, according to Orange County Sheriff’s Department records.

Montes’ body was found on the same day that San Juan Capistrano’s Jonathan Mendez would have turned 15. Mendez was the alleged San Juan gang member who died after an altercation with the rival San Clemente gang in June.

The apparent slaying was the third in San Clemente this year, following the allegedly drug-related murder of a Camp Pendleton Marine in May and the Mendez murder in June. The Ucar family was also found dead in their San Clemente home Memorial Day weekend, but authorities are leaning toward the possibility that they committed suicide. The city had one murder in 2007, one in 2006 and two in 2005, according to the Orange County Sheriff’s Department.

[Jc]

It sounds like a financial distress/dispute

[Arbuckle Doc]

Seems, a "Gated" community may NOT be the safest place to live, after all!!!

[Cap'n Obvious]

Gated Communites: Where no one can hear you scream.

[TCM]

But this is impossible. Only men do this kind of thing. Right ladies? Right?

[David Daniel]

Let me correct this news item. It says the victims were found lying together in the hallway. It should read that the three victims were lying in the hallway, and so was the cold-blooded murderer. The murderer saved taxpayers the cost of a fair trial and the cost of lethal injection. The murderer, by the way, should not be buried near the victims. We need to start rethinking our perception of murder suicides. The murderer is always committing a sick and evil act. Giving sympathy to a murderer because she or he died also, is pathetic. If the murderer had run away and had been shot down by police or had been arrested and put on trial, we would all be hoping to see her convicted of murdering two beautiful children and another woman.

[Rose]

So sadly tragic to destroy your loved ones and yourself.To betray humanity.There is always another way to get through tough times. You have to struggle to get past what will pass. Prayer helps,maybe your answers may not come swift, but things will always get better.Give time for the changes to come,you will see,if you strive, there is a silver lining to the cloudiness of life. God Bless everyone this Christmas Season and Blessed New Year!

[Dustin]

How truly sad it is to think that this might have been caused by a custody battle. The "if I can't have it no one will" attitude should never, EVER be found with parents regarding their children - it goes completely against everythign the human race stands for. If our children aren't the most precious things in our lives, we are a failure as parents, and as a species.

[SCM - San Diego]

I have a couple of problems with the way this story is written.

1) What does this mean?
"We are conducting an active death investigation," he said, adding the crime was confined to the house. "There's no killer out there. The incident is contained to that residence."

2) What does this mean?
He said the girls' father is not a suspect in the case. "We know where the father was, and the father was nowhere near the crime scene." Amormino said. Officials have not said how the four died but are investigating the slayings as a domestic dispute or child- custody battle.

HELLO......

Does anyone edit news stories anymore? What is an "Active Death investigation"? Why does that establish that there is "no killer out there".

Next the story states the father is not a suspect...then goes on to say in the next paragraph that the slayings are being investigated as a domestic dispute or child cusody battle.

Poor jounalism, poor writing, and worse editing...way to go LA Times. Your story causes more questions than it answers.

-SCM in San Diego

[William]

That's horrible! Crimes involving children make it that much tragic!

[Sister Y]

Murder-suicide by a woman is not that unusual - when the victims are her children. 99% probability the killer is mom, not the aunt.

When women kill their children and themselves, they virtually never kill their husbands, too. When men kill their children and themselves, they tend to kill their wives, too. Feelings of proprietariness toward wives and children, but not husbands, has been proposed as an explanation for this.

[Rob H.]

Incredibly sad. Its one thing when adults go after one another, but I will never, ever understand why you'd go after children. That's insane.

[Ken Macone(Sparks, NV-Police)]

Yep amerikkka Is DONE Son !

[Olivia]

Wow, they are right VVVVV !

Gated communities are supposed to keep others who dont live there out,
but Killers who live inside IN ! :O

[CMP]

Apparently the house was rented by the paternal grandmother. The mother and her two young daughters were visiting. Those are the four victims. It is not unusual for grandparents to seek visitiation rights these days. Especially paternal grandparents when the mother gets physical custody. My guess is that is what the situation here was which explains a "custody situation" where the father is not a party and the mother is a victim. Other reports show that neighbors heard a small girl scream and that probably prompted the first call to police. Maybe another or same neighbor called the home owner who inturn called police for the welfare check. In any case what a sad situation. I particularly feel for the father who lost his childre, ex, and mother.

[arggg]

Thanks for pointing that out Joe Poe. How easily we devalue the lives of others because of their status or other less-glamorous aspects of their lives.

I think it's so sad that someone would feel so much pain to take the lives of loved ones (assuming that's what happened). No need to be angry, but just be aware of volatile people around us and help any way we can.

[Pee Gee]

Gated communites are not all that safe. All it is a way to make money in the name of safety. There is alway a way to get into a gated community.Ther are some communities that have guards that are paided very low wages and are put in very dangerous situations. Now think how safe can a community be with a non-trained, low paid security guard. They don,t even have a gun, not trained to arrest peolple. Not say all gated communities are this way, there are some that are more protected than others, but there are alot of gated communities just have a warm body sitting just to give the impression that they are safe when they are really not. When somethin happens all the guard can do is call the police. If you live in a community that keys or codes people have friends who can let them in so who is to say what is safe. People need to think out sied the box. All you have to waht would a crimminal would do. I think it is a ashame people have to die or get hurt when they are suppose to be protected.

[nick]

There was a similar incident in San Clemente last year which I read about on the LA times as well. It was also labeled murder-suicide. The police had better make sure this is not due to a serial killer. Knowing how smart the cops are, one has to wonder.

[Fed Up]

Nick, wondering how long it would take to blame this on the cops.

[Joe Poe]

Apparently "gated community" is a term which pushes the buttons of some people. It's amazing that five or more comments (out of 16) refer to the gates. San Clemente has an enviably low murder rate -- which is another way of saying that the 61,000 residents are relatively skilled at the fine art of the low murder rate. Wonder why? What could we here in Cypress Park learn from them?

[Max]

Feel bad for the kids, but we have way too many old white people in this country.

[Curious in Reseda]

I am just wondering how the owner of the house heard strange noises when they were all dead. That's what the article I read said and then he called 911. Nevertheless, it is very sad that a mother would take the lives of her children and a relative. If she was in so much despair, she should have just left the family behind and alive. Then again, living with the fact that your mother committed suicide or abandoned them would also leave them with so many questions too. Who knows!!!

[Anonymous]

I personally new this family. I don't want to speculate or cause any more harm to any of the surviving family members, but here is the information I know about the family leading upto the devastating events yesterday:
the family was going through a very emotional custody battle. According to the mother (an attorney), one or both daughters were being abused by the father and she had tried to get them out of the state for their protection (Houston). The judge overseeing the custody battle, awarded the aunt custody of the daughters. There are a lot more details and events that lead upto this tragic day, but I think those details should be left unpublished.