Students remaining in English language classes too long, study shows

Nearly 30% of Los Angeles Unified School District students placed in English language classes in early primary grades were still in the program when they started high school, increasing their chances of dropping out, according to a study released Wednesday.

More than half of those students were born in the United States and three-quarters had been in the school district since first grade, according to the report by The Tomas Rivera Policy Institute at USC.

The findings raise questions about the teaching in the district’s English language classes, whether students are staying in the program too long and what more educators should do for students who start school unable to speak English fluently.

 “If you start LAUSD at kindergarten and are still in ELL classes at ninth grade, that’s too long,“ said Wendy Chavira, assistant director of the Tomas Rivera Policy Institute. “There is something wrong with the curriculum if there are still a very large number of students being stuck in the system.”

Researchers tracked the data on 28,700 students from the time they started sixth grade in 1999 until graduation in 2005. They found that students who were moved to mainstream classes by the time they were in the eighth grade were more likely to stay in school, take advanced placement courses in high school and pass the high school exit exam than students who remained in English language classes.

Mary Campbell, who is in charge of English language learning programs at LAUSD, said students must learn English as well as the grade-level material to move into mainstream classes. That often takes longer than learning the language, she said.

“We are aggressively looking at supporting these longtime English learners to ensure that they get the support needed to reclassify in a timely manner,” she said.

The vast majority of the students in the segregated language classes are not recent immigrants but rather U.S.-born youths, according to the study. Nearly 70% of all students placed in the English language learning program were born in the United States.

Previous studies have shown that English language learners generally score lower on standardized tests than their English-only classmates for various reasons. Other studies have shown that students in English language classes are usually placed with less-experienced teachers, focus on language skills rather than content and are segregated from students who speak English.

“The United States has never learned what is the best way to teach English to English learners,” said Harry Pachon, president of the Tomas Rivera Policy Institute. “That’s really a shortcoming.”

The earlier students switch to regular classes the better, the new study showed. Students who moved out of English classes by third grade scored as much as 40 points higher on standardized tests than those who stayed in the classes. If the students moved out by fifth grade, they scored about 10 points higher than their peers.

And in some cases, students who were in English learning programs and then moved out performed better than students who never were placed in the classes.

All students who speak a second language at home must take a test to see whether they should be placed in separate classes for English learners. Once they are in, they must take another test to get out. But Pachon said the process to get in is easier than it is to get out.

Though the study didn’t determine why students were staying in English language programs for so long, researchers say schools may avoid moving English learners into mainstream classes to keep test scores high.

--Anna Gorman

Comments

[San Peter]

There is nothing wrong with the curriculum. There is something wrong with the students who refuse to learn english for 9 years despite being born here.

[AndreaU8]

"“The United States has never learned what is the best way to teach English to English learners,” said Harry Pachon, president of the Tomas Rivera Policy Institute."

- Oh, bull! These kids should be put into a regular class in grade school and will learn english. All the kids I know from Eastern Europe and Asia learned this way.

[jay]

I though we killed these programs at LAUSD.

Teachers love to keep the kids in these programs because they get extra MONEY for these types of classes.

If anyone still needs proof that the teachers are out for themselves rather than the kids here's the pudding.

Good article LA Times

[Pablo]

This is so sad. The do-gooders who try to help may actually cause more harm than good. When my family moved to the US, my parents settled in a community where only English was spoken. There were no bilingual teachers, aides, or staff. By the end of her first year in school, my (then) 12-year old sister was fluent in English and earning A's. Coincidence? I think not! She had no choice but to learn the language and our parents pushed us to excel.

[ferenc]

these students(?) place in these remedial english classes are us born? they are obviously RETARDED and should be in special education. there is no other explanation.

[mister c]

the system is an enabler. It is based on feeling sorry for the disadvantaged rather than empowering them to be winners.

"I'm a guilty feeling white liberal administrator. I want to spend my life helping those less fortunate to almost make it. It's too bad the man is keeping these kids down. The system has made it too hard for them."

why not:

"Kids are great. We love kids. God made them special. Let's kick their asses to do the homework and help them to succeed better than any beverly hills high kids. Let's get them into regular English classes as soon as possible. Then, lets teach them Spanish and Japanese, too. Because we love them we are going to DEMAND excellence. From ourselves as teachers, too. Damn the test scores, we have a sacred duty to prepare these kids."

[Yoga]

You have to be careful with cause and relationship. The story implies that everything is equal except how long the students stay in the ELL classes. Here's an idea - maybe the kids who get out of the ELL classes are smarter than the ones who remain. Maybe THAT accounts for the test score results.

[Jeff M]

Wow. 70% are US born! I'm in Vancouver BC and it's about 55% here.

I run a private tutoring agency. Many of my clients are in special English programs. I hate to say it, but the public system is not able to provide the support students need. So many of my students have shown me the work they are required to do and related stories about their experiences in the system. In both cases, it doesn't seem to be helping students.

On the other hand, so many of these students have private tutors. I believe it is largely the results of private tutors working outside the system who are helping these students meet the requirements to join regular programs.

While it is not fair, how many times have you had to go to the private sector to get ahead in the public system? It doesn't seem to be a new problem.

[Bob Johnson]

More irreparable damage caused by the teachers and their idiot unions :)

[Astonished]

Considering what I see as passing for written and spoken English by the young people of today, maybe they need to stay there forever! I've never seen such poor language skills!

[MS]

Thanks for the post Pablo, I agree. My wife did not speak a word of english and moved to the US when she was nine. She didn't pick it up because she was smarter, she just wanted to learn and her mother and sisters supported her. I am tired of people blaming the school system for our children's failures. It's the parents who need to learn to be parents. But no one wants to touch the subject that we have people popping out 3, 4, 5 or more kids who couldn't afford to support 1 to begin with. And then they wonder why these kids can't learn.

[Alan]

Pablo has a very good point. Children learn multiple languages extremely easily. How do you think they learn their native language? By being in an environment in which it is constantly spoken. Likewise, if they are placed in an English only environment, they will pick it up and become fluent naturally . There is no need for these special programs.

[Randy L AZ Resident]

Why is it always the responsibility of the schools to teach these kids English?

When will the parents start being held responsible?

And people wonder why we get mad because these people refuse to assimilate.

[English Teacher]

I teach in an LAUSD high school, but even I am confused by this article. Does it refer to students enrolled in ESL classes in primary grades who stay in ESL classes up to high school? Or does it refer to students who complete ESL, are mainstreamed into regular English classes, but never reclassify as fluent in English? Your article makes it sound as if there are thousands of American-born, in-American-schools-since-kindergarten children who simply can't speak English.

If you are referring to students who never score high enough on the California English Language Development Test (CELDT) test to reclassify, then say so. It is misleading to give the impression that some students never learn English. In my many years of experience, they do learn English. They are perfectly fluent in conversational English, but their reading skills are low. They must read at a certain level of proficiency to score high enough on the CELDT to reclassify as fluent. Yet the district's remedial reading program, Read 180, which gets great results, is not available to students who are still classified as English learners unless they have a waiver.

If your goal is to inform, then inform. It is true that those students who never reclassify make up the ranks of students who never earn a diploma. But these are not ESL students. There are some classes of a double block of English Language Skills and regular English, but these numbers are low. The majority of ELL students are enrolled in regular English classes. You will even find them in honors and AP courses.

I have heard that it takes 8 years to achieve fluency. How many years does it take if a student is only immersed in the new language for only a few hours a day? What are the literacy rates of the parents in their home language? How about giving the CELDT test to a control group of students with low reading scores, but who are English-only? Is there a difference between students who enter school speaking Spanish and students who speak other languages?

The cause of this low level of reclassification is a worthy subject for investigative reporting. How about doing some?

[Liliya]

Let me start by saying: I have children in the LAUSD system.

They speak only English and they were placed in this program because I'm Bilingual. I was outraged when the principal told me this. My children can not speak any other language than English. I have signed several forms trying to get them out of this program and nothing was done.

And yes it all about money. The more ELD students they have the more money for the school.

I can't wait for more charter school to open up. They hire teachers that actually care about students. And if they can't perform they will lose their job.

unlike regular LAUSD teacher that their job are guaranteed by Unions, and not their performance.

[former student]

Jay is mistaken - bilingual teachers were supposed to be paid more - but never were! Teachers who don't speak Spanish and have these ELL students in their classes are supposed to have an aide who speaks Spanish - but they don't! With teachers - you get what you pay for, and most seem to be a product of these same failed schools and the outdated curriculum. It's also about money and poor people. There are so many poor, uneducated Spanish speaking parents in the system who can't help their children with schoolwork at all. That is the problem, along with the general culture in L.A. that breeds ignorance. What is more important here - what Michael Jackson had to say, or what Michael Pollan has to say? Look at the media to find out.

[swilson617]

Teachers have not received extra money for teaching bilingual classes for many years now. We would like nothing more than to get kids out of ESL classes and into the regular program. You might be amazed to know that there really are a large number of children who have no real interest in learning English. They don't need it to get by in their community, and nobody at home speaks it. Remember the old saying--you can lead a horse to water...

[jmg_NX21]

I shall respond to comments (but I NEED to read the report to understand their conclusions and LIMITATIONS - all studies have limitations and specific points of views that they are INTERPRETING their results from).

1) Historically, language learners have UNJUSTLY been classified as needing special education - it is a linguistic challenge NOT a cognitive challenge. With proper mediation - this students are fully capable of higher-level thinking.

2) Please do not just lay blame to the teachers. They are under whatever financial, social, political constraints (YES 227 is a constraint) - that proper mediation (research-based) that is denied many of these language learners.

Do their parents have jobs?
Well paying jobs?
Do they have access to healthcare?
SO that parents can support their child?

Yet, how do we TREAT language learners?
DO they feel welcome here?
Do they feel they belong here?
(just think Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Lou Dobbs... ok, closer to home (although I am an avid KFI listener: John and Ken? Bill Handel - who by the way is a Latino Brasilian Jew...)

This a sociologically complex issue - sociologically, there're a lot that NEEDS to change...

[Owl Creek]

Both sets of my great-grandparents came here from Poland. They eventually learned how to stumble around in English, but they never achieved true fluency. When my grandmother was a little girl, if she was absent from school she had to write a note for her mom to sign...because her mother didn't know enough English to write, "Please excuse Stella from school yesterday; she was sick."

HOWEVER, all of my grandparents and their siblings became fully fluent in both English and Polish, despite the fact that none of them made it past the 8th grade. They learned Polish at home, from their parents, and English at school (the stumbling English their parents learned, they learned from them). They didn't speak with accents, but they could start a sentence in one language and seamlessly finish it in another.

How come they were able to do that with 8th grade educations, but today's HS grads can't even manage to grasp ONE language?

[bkl]

Parents have to speak English to their children at home starting at birth. They can't count on the LAUSD to teach their children English. Children can learn two languages at the same time and switch easily from one to the other. I have seen children in pre-school learn American Sign Language at the same time they learn English and others learn Chinese and English simultaneously. And no one should assume that immigrants can't learn English!

I recall another story in the Times about an uneducated woman who came here from Mexico speaking only an Indian language. After great effort, she was able to learn a language. Unfortunately, that language was Spanish. She has effectively condemned her children to a lifetime of struggles. They may be able to overcome their background, but how much better for them would it have been if she had put the same effort into learning English!

[John]

This clearly demonstrates that the US should be taking in as immigrants only those fluent in English. Our Latin American influx has so badly degraded the schools and society in general.

[Heather]

I'd be interested to see if students who have English spoken at home could pass these tests. Maybe ALL children should be tested to see their language proficiency!

[apple1]

San Peter got it right when he posted, "There is nothing wrong with the curriculum. There is something wrong with the students who refuse to learn english for 9 years despite being born here."

[Manuel]

It is amazing the level of ignorance displayed by many of the people who have posted comments. Attempting to reason with them is like trying to teach a pig to sing.

Let me appeal to the silent majority who just looks at these issues and shakes its collective head: These students have not refused to learn to speak English. All of them do. Unfortunately, spoken English is not the only criteria for reclassification. They must also score high enough in reading and writing. Given the significant hurdle imposed by low socioeconomic status, it is not surprising that they do not score high enough in these two crucial metrics to be reclassified as "English fluent."

I have been told by teachers that if the reclassification test was given to students who are "mainstream English", a significant portion would score at or below the levels of these so-called non-English proficient students. How many poor whites and blacks are currently failed by our society because of the poor condition of schools? Or have you forgotten the good old days when at least 60% of whites students, along with most minorities, were herded into shop classes instead of college prep?

To rant on bilingual education, higher level of pay for teachers, etc., simply demonstrates bigotry and, as I wrote above, rank ignorance. No wonder "leaders" like Ron Unz (whatever happened to him, anyway?) were able to fool people into voting for 227 more than ten years ago. In case readers don't know, the day after 227 passed, LAUSD brass decreed that no materials in Spanish were to be available to students. Millions of dollars in books, charts, teaching aids, etc., were destroyed. And the number of bilingual programs has been a token ever since.

Yet, ten years of "English language immersion" have not changed a thing. And the usual suspects still blame the teachers, liberals, etc. God bless America, right?

[CollegeEducated]

If you think this is bad, try reading and grading papers from undergraduate students (I do not teach English).

Based on what I hear in the classroom, their spoken English is adequate to me; however, the poor writing skills transcend race as well as color. Perhaps some who post here overlook the notion that any language "fluency" academically applies to proficient writing as well as the spoken word.

[Tara]

Immersion, immersion, immersion -- the younger the better. all this coddling and highly expensive special treatment of u.s.-born (!) spanish speakers is not working. Perhaps we could ask first generation Asians how they master the language so quickly? I suspect family motivation has more to do with it than anyone seems willing to admit.

[Tara]

jmg-NX21: if my irish ancestors had stood snivelling at signs that read "irish need not apply" instead of getting on with the business of making a life in the u.s., i'd be speaking gaelic! and if my norwegian ancestors had come here expecting an array of supportive programs for them and their children, i'd be speaking norski! instead, they relied on each other, worked extremely hard, grew their farms and other enterprises and became productive members of their new country. so what's up with the 'family values' we hear so much about in the latino community?

[Former English Teacher]

Following up on English Teacher's comment, this article is woefully inadequate and shows the shoddy writing that will pass as journalism in today's world of lower standards. I'm assuming the article is describing ESL (English as a Second Language ) students, which are now known as ELL (English Language Learners) students, and not students which are enrolled in regular English classes.

And how about investigating and reporting why it is easier to get in than out of these programs? Maybe even giving parents some information of how to advocate for themselves.

And what about critiquing Mary Campbell's nonsensical quote, “We are aggressively looking at supporting these longtime English learners to ensure that they get the support needed to reclassify in a timely manner."? How does one aggressively look at supporting students? Can't she say how LAUSD aggressively supports students? It's a deceptive phrase intended to cover up the reality that they aren't DOING enough to support fundamental English language acquisition and to reclassify students, just "aggressively looking" at how to do that.

[sarabeth]

As a high school teacher of some of these students, there are a few things I can see that are causing this issue:

1) Students speak Spanish and English to other students and are fluent in both languages - but do not know the grammatical structure of English.
2) Students are not passing the tests that would take them out of this designation.
3) Many students only speak Spanish at home because of non English-speaking parents or guardians.
4) Some students have gone back and forth - living both in Mexico and the U.S. - which sometimes results in not being comfortable in either language. (I have taught a few of these students.)

You need to look at the program - and the student's home life - rather than saying "teachers like to keep them in the program for extra money." Each student is an individual. We have many students who know they can fail all their classes in middle school and still get placed in ninth grade at the high school. These students are unmotivated, and do little or no work at high school, thinking they can still graduate. Maybe the whole system should be revamped and failure should be rewarded with holding students back. Of course, then there would not be any room at all at the middle school....

[cooper]

Years ago, these people wanted bilingual education. Even though Prop 209 passed, the schools and parents found loopholes. Now they're crying because their poor babies still can't get out of ELL. It's not the curriculum stupid. Its the stupid lazy kids and parents. Stop blaming the teachers! Teach yourself and your little brats to speak english.

[jmg_NX21]

Tara:
Perfect example. There are many regions of México where there was a majority are of European decent. They can "pass"

Myself, you can tell than I have indigenous genes.

So, were you ancestors and all those you cited confused for ignorant / heathen Native Americans?
Or illegals? Gang-Members? Drug-Dealers?

(By the way, of the other significant immigrants those of Irish descent is a significant percentage)

The general perception that is acceptable socially is pretty darn BIASED!

There are strong family values in immigrant communiteis:
Just that for Asians, they are on a higher social hierarchy level compared to those of use from South of the Border. So they have to FEND for themselves, bond, and develop economic/social strategies to succeed here.

UNtil that perception changes... why should immigrants give up their identities?
The American Dream is NOT a level playing (yet).

[TheBigPicture]

Deport them or teach them to pick cabbage...

[teacher]

First of all, the majority of the people writing responses here couldn't score proficient on the fifth grade standardized test. In fifth grade, we have just finished teaching students to differentiate between a dependent and independent clause, and between a compound and complex sentence. In order to do so, they had recognize the difference between a subordinating conjunction (of which there are many), and a coordinating conjunction (of which there are seven).

In science they are learning the periodic table and how to interpret mixtures, solutions, saturation points and chemical reactions. In math, they must master concepts that were taught to me in 7th grade, not fifth. In language arts, they are made to read long passages about topics they have learned nothing about and answer difficult multiple choice questions that I sometimes can't figure out.

These students don't have any need to have social, familial or marketplace conversations in English. Their parents barely have time -or choose not to- speak to the children in any language.

Stop blaming teachers for everything. You know not of what you speak. You probably don't even know enough to pass the fifth grade test. But we would offer you social promotion anyway.

[whitenoise]

The Tomas Rivera Policy Institute apparently has an agenda to maintain: relieve the students of all accountability. It can't possibly be their lack of initiative, their lack of effort, their unwillingness to speak English outside of the classroom; it can't possibly be our permissive, accommodating society where entitlement is a way of life. The TRPI agenda conflicts with LAUSD's agenda, however, which is to keep students in these classes as long as possible, because that means money for those entitlement programs.

What are the chances that the overwhelming percentage of these students are Hispanic, not Chinese or Korean or any other language group? But wait, we can't talk about work ethics. That's politically incorrect. The sad part is, our lack of comprehensive examination of this disparity keeps a majority Hispanics in a generational servant class, while other immigrant groups excel and become part of mainstream America.

Too much conflict. Too controversial. The solution: blame the teacher! It must be the teacher's fault! Yeah, that's it....

[P. Chavez]

I've taught ESL students for 25 years. The last two years I taught middle school ELL students at the advanced level. It was my experience that the majority of the students continuing to fail my class had behavior issues impacting their progress. Administration absolutely refuses to acknowledge and state it must be teacher classroom management. I had about 1/3 of the class truly passing and the students who perform better are often those who have transferred from another country and have started their education there. The rest were born in the U.S. and were fluent in verbal skills but most had difficulty writing multiple paragraphs. I went back to elementary school and noting the composite of my single classroom I again note that the 3 or so students achieving at the bottom of my whole class are ELL students with severe behavior problems. I have been unable to contact their parents on an on-going basis. Oh well....

[Colleen]

Pushing students into mainstream classrooms without solid language skills, could lead to even higher drop-out rates when students are not prepared for the curriculum. It's a set-up for failure. The real question here is why are "students in English language classes ... usually placed with less-experienced teachers, focus on language skills rather than content and are segregated from students who speak English." as you mention in this paper. Why are schools not hiring teachers with language learning and teaching knowledge? Doesn't California require CLAD certification? Also, if English Language students are testing lower on standardized tests, why are English Language Learners not accommodated and assessed based on their real language abilities? The real tragedy here isn't that students are not moving into the mainstream faster, it's that society has not recognized the need to teach the whole student and support the whole learner. Content Based English language teaching, and dual language literacy should be a priority in California where the population can only benefit from a wider perspective on the value of language in social-economic relationships.