Amid weather change, firefighters express some optimism about Station fire fight [Updated]

Increasing humidity and slightly cooling temperatures this morning brought the first signs of hopefulness from firefighters battling the Station fire. 

"I’m feeling a lot more optimistic today than I did yesterday," said U.S. Forest Service Incident Cmdr. Mike Dietrich. "We made progress last night, not just due to humidity, but good darn firefighting. They're fighting for every foot."

And though officially the fire is still at 5% containment, Dietrich said officials will reassess that figure today and that he expected it to go up substantially. The cause of the fire is still under investigation.  No additional homes were reported destroyed, but damages are estimated at $13.6 million.

The containment date still stands at Sept. 15.

On Monday, Dietrich characterized the fire as "angry" and "vindictive," but today he compared it to his own children: "cranky and stubborn for no apparent reason." 

About 3,600 personnel remain involved in fighting the fire, and an ongoing concern is getting firefighters enough rest and water. On Friday, one firefighter was hospitalized with renal kidney failure due to dehydration, but he is in better condition now. In order to ensure the firefighters are getting adequate rest, officials have set up a camp in the Santa Clarita area, a closer alternative to the command center at Hansen Dam, Dietrich said.

The massive blaze, which has burned more than 50 structures, killed two firefighters and caused thousands of evacuations, grew by about 15,000 acres over the last 12 hours. That's a smaller rate of growth than Sunday or Monday, but officials are still on guard.

Despite the improved weather, officials said they worried about the possibility of gusty winds and dry lightning.

After a six-day heat wave, forecasters say an onshore flow will return today, dropping temperatures on the fire lines to the low 90s, with some gusty winds at mountain peaks. Humidity is also expected to increase.

In the once-threatened area of Briggs Terrace, firefighters using flares set backfires from the top of the ridge gradually down toward the homes. The burnouts neutralized the danger of the wildfire coming down, said Nathan Judy of the U.S. Forest Service. 

"Everybody in that neighborhood has nothing to worry about," he said."There's no fuel to burn. We took it away." 

Firefighters cut a break between the homes and the burnout nearest them, but the winds were blowing upslope during the operation anyway, Judy said.

The Station fire, the largest of several in the state, was plowing through dense hillside vegetation along the San Gabriel Mountains, cutting a remarkable swath that extends from Altadena into the high desert.

Despite the fire's sprawling dimensions, stretching up to 25 miles from east to west and 18 miles from north to south, aggressive ground and aerial assaults managed to confine the blaze to largely undeveloped areas. Losses from the fire rose Monday when officials learned that more than 30 cabins, homes and other structures were destroyed in the remote Big Tujunga Canyon area.

And on the fire's eastern flank, officials were still hoping a concerted effort to hack away tree limbs, cut fire breaks and lay down fire retardant would spare the Mt. Wilson Observatory and a key complex of communications towers used for over-the-air broadcasting by nearly 50 radio and television stations.

[Updated, 10:05 a.m.:  Authorities are allowing firefighters to return to Mt. Wilson to continue fighting the fire from that location. The area was closed to everyone, including firefighters Monday morning.]

Weary fire crews trading 12-hour shifts had little time Monday to mourn the deaths of two L.A. County firefighters killed Sunday when their truck overturned on a mountain road.

Capt. Tedmund Hall, 47, and firefighter specialist Arnaldo Quinones, 34, were part of a team of 65 firefighters -- mostly jail inmates -- trying to defend a camp when flames made a sudden run at their positions, said County Fire Chief P. Michael Freeman. An investigation is continuing, but preliminary indications are that Hall and Quinones were trying to reposition a fire truck, which then tumbled 800 feet down a steep slope. Other firefighters suffered minor injuries in a rescue effort, Freeman said.

At Mt. Wilson, the intensity and unpredictability of the blaze, which continued shifting directions, forced fire crews to pull back from the mountaintop on Monday. With the blaze burning on both sides of the only access road to the complex, firefighters could become trapped if the inferno suddenly raced up the canyon walls.

The drama of families having to flee their homes -- or risking all to try to defend their property -- played out repeatedly as searing heat and a generation of accumulated hillside growth fed the fires.

There was confusion and concern when six people refused to evacuate from Gold Canyon near Little Tujunga, officials said. Conflicting reports through the day said the group wanted to stay, or be rescued, after firefighters lighted backfires to battle the blaze in the area. Sheriff's deputies returned to the area three times, officials said, but it appeared the group was not leaving.

As billows of white and black smoke danced ominously close in the Sunland-Tujunga area, Chuck Horn ushered his family and his two prized classic automobiles away from his home.

"We took pictures, tax returns, insurance forms, the dog, the chicken, and that's it," Horn, 61, a retired L.A. County public works employee, said as he prepared to drive away in his baby blue 1931 Plymouth coupe. Next, he planned to move a black 1911 Buick Model 33.

-- Corina Knoll and Hector Becerra at Hansen Dam, Ann M. Simmons in Tujunga

Photo: Lt. Curt Graham,  a Sutter County firefighter, keeps an eye on the Station blaze near La Crescenta. Credit: Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times

Photos: Southland wildfires	Interactive map: The Station fire

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"Everybody in that neighborhood has nothing to worry about," he said."There's no fuel to burn. We took it away." 

Firefighters cut a break between the homes and the burnout nearest them, but the winds were blowing upslope during the operation anyway, Judy said.

The Station fire, the largest of several in the state, was plowing through dense hillside vegetation along the San Gabriel Mountains, cutting a remarkable swath that extends from Altadena into the high desert.

Despite the fire's sprawling dimensions, stretching up to 25 miles from east to west and 18 miles from north to south, aggressive ground and aerial assaults managed to confine the blaze to largely undeveloped areas. Losses from the fire rose Monday when officials learned that more than 30 cabins, homes and other structures were destroyed in the remote Big Tujunga Canyon area.

And on the fire's eastern flank, officials were still hoping a concerted effort to hack away tree limbs, cut fire breaks and lay down fire retardant would spare the Mt. Wilson Observatory and a key complex of communications towers used for over-the-air broadcasting by nearly 50 radio and television stations.

[Updated, 10:05 a.m.:  Authorities are allowing firefighters to return to Mt. Wilson to continue fighting the fire from that location. The area was closed to everyone, including firefighters Monday morning.]

Weary fire crews trading 12-hour shifts had little time Monday to mourn the deaths of two L.A. County firefighters killed Sunday when their truck overturned on a mountain road.

Capt. Tedmund Hall, 47, and firefighter specialist Arnaldo Quinones, 34, were part of a team of 65 firefighters -- mostly jail inmates -- trying to defend a camp when flames made a sudden run at their positions, said County Fire Chief P. Michael Freeman. An investigation is continuing, but preliminary indications are that Hall and Quinones were trying to reposition a fire truck, which then tumbled 800 feet down a steep slope. Other firefighters suffered minor injuries in a rescue effort, Freeman said.

At Mt. Wilson, the intensity and unpredictability of the blaze, which continued shifting directions, forced fire crews to pull back from the mountaintop on Monday. With the blaze burning on both sides of the only access road to the complex, firefighters could become trapped if the inferno suddenly raced up the canyon walls.

The drama of families having to flee their homes -- or risking all to try to defend their property -- played out repeatedly as searing heat and a generation of accumulated hillside growth fed the fires.

There was confusion and concern when six people refused to evacuate from Gold Canyon near Little Tujunga, officials said. Conflicting reports through the day said the group wanted to stay, or be rescued, after firefighters lighted backfires to battle the blaze in the area. Sheriff's deputies returned to the area three times, officials said, but it appeared the group was not leaving.

As billows of white and black smoke danced ominously close in the Sunland-Tujunga area, Chuck Horn ushered his family and his two prized classic automobiles away from his home.

"We took pictures, tax returns, insurance forms, the dog, the chicken, and that's it," Horn, 61, a retired L.A. County public works employee, said as he prepared to drive away in his baby blue 1931 Plymouth coupe. Next, he planned to move a black 1911 Buick Model 33.

-- Corina Knoll and Hector Becerra at Hansen Dam, Ann M. Simmons in Tujunga

Photo: Lt. Curt Graham,  a Sutter County firefighter, keeps an eye on the Station blaze near La Crescenta. Credit: Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times

Comments

[John]

A question about wildfires in general. Why can we not just cut a perimeter of trees around a wildfire that could quite possibly contain it much quicker than dousing it with water until it is extinguished? Or maybe a variation of the two? Just a thought.

[Dan White]

Why don't they try using thermobaric technology to fight these fires ! Exploding this kind of bomb over a fire would suck the oxygen out long enough for the crews on the ground to get a jump on the fire ! This is my thinking, but i'm not an expert ! But why not ask one !!!!

[RICHARD DUNCAN]

I THINK THAT YOUR NEWSPAPER IS THE BEST IN THE COUNTRY I WISH THAT I COULD GET IN MY HOME STATE OF CONNECTICUT BUT I DO READ ONLINE AND ENJOY IT SO VERY MUCH IWAS IN CALFORNIA IN 1998 FOR ELEVEN DAYS IF I COULD THERE I WOULD HAVE STAYED IN SANTA MONICA THAT IS VERY WONDERFUL CITY IT WAS NOT FAR FROM LOS ANGELES IF IT COULD HAPPEN ONE THING THAT IS TOO GET A BASEBALL CAP WITH JUST ONE THING THE LETTERS L.A.P.D. ON IT BECAUSE THE BEST POLICE FORCE IS L.A.P.D FROM A BIG CALFORNIA FAN THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH SIGNED RICHARD DUNCAN I LIVE AT 281 W WASHINGTON ST BRISTOL CT ZIP 06010 P.S. GO DODGERS GO

[James]

John, They use a combination of the two, cutting the trees will take an excessive amount of time so they are only able to do it where they are small enough for a bull dozer to knock them down. You then also have the problem of removing the trees which requires more equipment and more time.

The fast way is with the back burns they are using now as it removes the fuel with limited risk of getting out of control.

As for Dan White's idea about exploding a bomb over it...are you paying for the bomb ;) I would love to see the video tthough. Couple of rednecks talking about how they don't plan on evacuating.....BOOM.... no evacuation needed... no rednecks either.

[RICHARD DUNCAN]

YOU HAVE THE NUMBER RADIO STATION IN THE WHOLE USA THAT IS K-EARTH 101 FM THEY ARE BETTER THAN IN CT BY FAR I GET THEM ONLINE AND MY VERY BEST ON THE AIR IS CHARLIE TUNA AND CHRIS KELLY SO I HOPE A WHOLE LOT THAT THEY THERE FOR MANY MORE YEARS TOO COME THANK YOU VERY MUCH A FAN FROM CT YOU HAVE MY HOME ADDRESS .

[Chris henson]

God bless the firefighters

[Emma]

I read elsewhere that "There weren't any fixed wing planes involved until Saturday afternoon when things were already out of control and, before then, only 4 helicopters. There were 700 firefighters working on the Station fire when at the same time there were 2000 working mop up on the Morris Fire, which didn't threaten any homes. Ridiculously mishandled."

If this is true, it seems like a real screw up. Yes, these areas did need to burn --but not the entire Angeles Forest! The Times editorial describes this fire as "ecologically correct," but I wonder: how easily does habitat restore itself when burned so intensely, over such a huge area? how many hundreds or thousands of animals died? And is the Forest Service prepared to reseed with natives?

[Jim Cruise]

My thoughts are with our hard working firefighters and all the families affected. I hope the cooler weather will help to contain the fire before more damage occurs, or more lives are lost.

[Geoff Wilford]

The Thermobaric technology would not work in this application. The device 's intent is to destroy objects by producing a massive fireball and primarily a shockwave. Neither of these is very well suited to have firefighters or building near-by. Besides, the fireball would reignite the ground fuel after the oxygen vacuum was filled in by surrounding air. This is an aerobic reaction that draws in all of the unburnt fuel and atmospheric air, creating a vacuum in the detonation environment. An air shock wave, generated during the fireball expansion, would be reflected from the walls of any structures or canyons. The reflected shock has two important drawbacks; first, it stops the temperature decrease of the air and the fireball. As a matter of fact it can actually increase the temperature in some places depending on how the shock waves reflect. The second drawback is the large shockwave effect; neither is good for firefighters or the houses they are trying to protect

[tana jackson]

It makes me so sad to hear the stories time and time again when we no that wildfires happen here every year. There is no use not to be prepared when there are easy things to access that can help. take for instance Cover your assets home inventory. Just do it so when you are stuck and having to evacuate you wont have to worry about what to run out of the house with.

[Geoff Wilford]

"A question about wildfires in general. Why can we not just cut a perimeter of trees around a wildfire that could quite possibly contain it much quicker than dousing it with water until it is extinguished? Or maybe a variation of the two? Just a thought"

That is exactly what they are doing in many instances. This is called an "indirect attack" method. It is a commonly used tactic when the fires intensity is too high for approach by personnel or mechanized equipment. The challenge is to get far enough ahead of it to be able to complete the removal of the trees and brush before the fire gets there. When the fire is spreading so fast the firefighters are not able to get far enough ahead of the flames to complete construction. I am sure they would love to get really - really far ahead of the flames and construct the line, but how many peoples' homes would be in the way? How many people would have to be evacuated? This is not an easy situation. It is a matter of rate times time equals distance. The fire's rate is faster than the firefighters can construct without writing off huge chunks of very valuable sections of the cities. So, the firefighters use the indirect along with the direct attack method and perform structure protection where there are homes in the way.

[Trish]

First, we should all be grateful for all of our hard-working, selfless firefighters.
Secondly, there should be better protocol established regarding folks who refuse to evacuate. Either they should be arrested on the spot for refusing a mandatory order, or they should be left on their own once they've refused to leave. To continue to endanger lives and divert resources to go back for these selfish people is incomprehensible. Shame on them.

[mesavs]

They do use bulldozers to create gaps in between the brush and the fire. Often times they just use shovels too, if they can't get the bulldozers in there.

[James R Powers]

With such a mix of firefighting forces, who is in ultimate charge of the Station fire, making most of the big decisions on how to fight the fire? And, generally is there good (fair, excellent ) cooperation between the various agencies--federal, state, county etc.--or do jurisdictional problems occur?

[K. Eagle]

Nice to have some detailed, technical answers to the basic firefighting questions posed by commenters. Thanks GW.

[Geoff Wilford]

"...With such a mix of firefighting forces, who is in ultimate charge of the Station fire, making most of the big decisions on how to fight the fire? And, generally is there good (fair, excellent ) cooperation between the various agencies--federal, state, county etc.--or do jurisdictional problems occur..."

Because multiple jurisdictions are involved and each has has a stake in how the incident is managed, each jurisdiction supplies a representative to join what is called a "Unified Command" organization. Each of the Unified Commanders work together to formulate one set of incident objectives that all can agree on and that does not abrogate any jurisdictional authorities or responsibilities. The Forest Service requested the deployment of one of the 17 nationally rated incident management team to assist in managing this incident and delegated their responsibility to the Incident Commander of the team - so he was the Unified Command representative for the US Forest Service. Generally there is very good cooperation between the various agencies during an incident like this. There are always bumps in the road but that is expected and dealt with by the agencies involved. Thanks for the kind comment K.E.L.

[K Eagle]

Detailed media coverage of so many aspects of this huge fire gives us a rare opportunity to peek into the world of wildland firefighters, adn to understand the strategies behind the decisions that are made. In some cases the ultimate results of actions takes years to be revealed. Some people seem able to fully recover from devastating situations, while others may make a concerted effort for years without the same positive results.
Attention to this story will fade; it is a passing curiosity for those who are not directly affected by the damage. It has been a privilege to connect with people so far away; in times of tragedy our shared humanity can be a comfort. We will be better for having learned about fire behavior and what actions to take to protect our homes and lives in the future. In a couple of weeks teh L will be officially removed, despite my best efforts. While these is deep sadness for what has occured, the blessings of family, friends, and a strong spirit will triumph over difficult times. There will be mourning, and then time will heal and life will continue. My best wishes for the continued success of all the firefighters and their families.

[G. W.]

"...Detailed media coverage of so many aspects of this huge fire gives us a rare opportunity to peek into the world of wildland firefighters, and to understand the strategies behind the decisions that are made. In some cases the ultimate results of actions takes years to be revealed. Some people seem able to fully recover from devastating situations, while others may make a concerted effort for years without the same positive results..."

During the heat of the firefight decisions are usually based on incomplete information, there is not enough time to gain a complete understanding of all the facts or the potential effects of any particular decision. In addition, each and every fire is different; as an example the Mill Fire in 1974 in the same area spared the Vogel Flats subdivision (I believe 2 out of 40 were lost) but this time a column collapse caused fire behavior that had not been seen on the Mill fire and the destruction was far more severe - though the same stand was taken to protect homes. Everyone involved in something like this faces significant struggles; very few recover devastating situations without significant damage - even to this day - memories for many will never fade; both the bad and good. Learning from these events is the only way to see the positive aspect.