Episcopal Church, at Anaheim convention, moves to end ban on gay bishops

Episcopalians were moving today toward ending a de facto ban on the ordination of gay bishops and toward sanctioning marriage blessings for same-sex couples despite warnings from church conservatives that the liberalized policies could further divide the influential denomination.

The actions by leaders of the 2.1-million member Episcopal Church at their General Convention in Anaheim are likely to deepen a theological fissure that already has led to the departure of traditionalist congregations  and dioceses.

And they are almost certain to trigger a backlash among the wider Anglican Communion, whose members in Africa, South America and elsewhere have asked their U.S. counterparts not to relax their positions on the two controversial issues. The Episcopal Church is the U.S. branch of the communion, which has 77 million members.

The church’s two governing bodies -- bishops preside over one house, clergy and lay leaders head the other -- already have endorsed the gay bishops measure. A final procedural vote is expected today.

Meanwhile, the bishops this morning are debating a resolution that would effectively allow them to oversee the blessing of same-gender couples in states or jurisdictions where gay marriage is legal. Clergy and lay leaders have been supportive of the measure.

-- Duke Helfand

 

Comments

[Mara]

I thought the Anglican/Episcopalian community had this out back in '04 when Gene Robinson was ordained as Bishop of New Hampshire! What's left for them to argue about? Most 'conservative' Episcopalian congregations have long since given their allegience to the Nigerian Bishop Akinola instead of the actual elected head of the church, Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury.

This isn't "breaking news", Duke.

[Awesome!]

Excellent news!

[nls73m]

great, just what we need. homosexual bishops and the sanctioning of gay marriage. our country is doomed.

what next? bestiality?

[True Christian]

So now Episcopalians are joining the ranks of the so-called 'Christians' and adopting policies that are expressly condemned in the bible? I guess keeping gay people on their roster is more important than adhering to the requirements of true Christians.

[True Scotsman]

Good; "true christians" ought to let God deal with what goes on in His house, they can deal with what goes on in their own. Maybe then divorce rates wouldn't be what they are. And maybe when they stop thinking about the sins of their fellow congregants like catty little schoolgirls, they might actually think about God.

[kooo]

Why don't they just allow polygamy as well?

[Devil Basher!]

The revelation has come to pass the devil will take over the church of christ and persecute the true belivers. Is it the end of the American Empire?? Im concerened and worried!

[Dean]

Jesus is coming. The mess that is the Episcopal Church should be aware of that.

[Mike]

This is an abomination! This is not a church, it is a joke and does not follow the Word of GOD. If anyone identifies themselves with this organization, they are fools.

[Joe Mustich, Justice of the Peace]

It's time.

Joe Mustich, Justice of the Peace.
Washington, Connecticut USA

Busy here officiating for lots of couples who are coming to CT this summer to wed from around the country, because they aren't allowed (?) to do so in their own home states just yet....

It's' time.

[William]

So interesting to read comments from the "Bible believing" Christians here. Few Christians would condone slavery these days, yet most "Bible believers" did 150 years ago when it was "obvious" that the "plain sense of Scripture" supported it. Only a few courageous Christians (including the ardent evangelical -- my, how times have changed! -- William Wilberforce) believed any differently. They suffered abuse and persecution from their fellow Christians, including being called heretics and tools of Satan. I wonder if history is repeating itself? Time will tell.

Remember, you Bible believers, the words of Rabbi Gamaliel about some other upstarts challenging the prevailing orthodoxy, "If this endeavor or this activity is of human origin, it will destroy itself. But if it comes from God, you will not be able to destroy them; you may even find yourselves fighting against God." (Acts 5:38-39)

As a non-believer, I don't have a dog in this fight, but offer kudos to The Episcopal Church for having some integrity And, no worries, there's still plenty of gay-unfriendly churches for y'all to attend, if you're so inclined.

[Righteous???]

Those of you who are screaming about hell and demons and abomination scare me! Do you think that Jesus would spew such intolerance and bigotry? I highly doubt it!

I'm glad the Episcopal Church, or at least half of it, is moving forward not backwards towards acceptance and growth.

Kurt Vonnegut once said "Take care of the people, and almighty god will take care of himself"
Amen

[Just Saying]

If this Church changed their name they might duck much of the flak.

[William]

>Why don't they just allow polygamy as well?

The "Biblical" model of marriage is very clearly "one man and one or more women". And the guy is supposed to be nice to his concubines, too! If you're a "bishop" you're allowed only one wife, but having a few (or many!) is just fine for every other man, Biblically speaking. Find a verse to prove me wrong! If you're a true "Bible believer" why not get with the program?

Seriously, cultural norms change and usually for good reason. It's nice to see a Christian church not too far behind the curve on a justice issue for once.

To be perfectly blunt, most of us non-believers see self-identified Christians as regressive reactionaries who are FAR too interested in other people's sex lives. If one-tenth the energy Christians spend opposing the gays went to feeding the hungry, we'd all be fat and happy! And, yes, I realize there are many good Christians who do fine work in this very area, but still...

[T A K]

To all so-called Christians who condemn the Episcopal Church, I offer this:

Do not speak evil against one another, brothers and sisters. Whoever speaks evil against another or judges another, speaks evil against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is one lawgiver and judge who is able to save and to destroy. So who, then, are you to judge your neighbour?
James 4:11-12

[dizzypdx]

My priest right now is one of the most caring and amazing clergy members I have ever known in any church. I'm including all the pastors I met at my Lutheran middle school and priests/nuns/monks at my Catholic high school. He is the only man who really understood and helped me through my father's death. No matter what happens, he is there for the congregation. He even cut his vacation in England short when one of our members died. He is everything a good priest is supposed to be. Why some people think being gay automatically makes him evil and a tool of the devil, I don't understand. Real Christians love everyone and believe in what Jesus said. They do not condemn or judge.

"know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified." Galatians 2:16

Sounds to me like we should be doing what Jesus said and not what the Old Testament says...

"if any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." John 8:7

[fester]

"Why don't they just allow polygamy as well?"

You mean, like they did in the Old Testament? Or are you one of those Christians who reads his bible selectively, choosing only the parts you like?

[RH]

One of the first tenants of Christ's Church is to stand on the "rock" of God's word. Homosexuality is an abomination to the Lord. 1 Cor.6:9 . Read it! There is no way one can spin that or shape it to meet man's social agenda. The current iteration of the Episcopal Church is more liking to Sodom and Gommorah than any representation of Christ's church. But then I'm perfectly comfortable with letting God bring His retibution upon them, just as He did with those two bastions of homosexuality.

[KingCranky]

If congregations wish to break away from the church, fine, just don't think they get to keep the church's property & equipment.

[Warren]

Gays for Jesus!

[Albert Saur]

For centuries the priesthood was a safe haven for homosexual men who wanted to be a member of a scholarly or learned profession. There surely have been gay bishops in the entire history of the church, from the time of the 12 apostles through the reformation and down to the present. The leading catholic cardinal in the United States was, at one time, James X Spellman. He was known to be gay. After saying mass on Sundays he would change clothes and go out looking for sexual partners. I don't recall that the Catholic Church has collapsed because of Cardinal Spellman.

We have gay priests now. Last Sunday at the church I attend the guest celebrant was openly gay. The sky didn't fall and the communion wine didn't poison me.

As far as the Bible is concerned, the bible commands many things that we don't do. We don't follow the Jewish dietary laws - unless we are Jewish. We don't allow women who become pregnant outside of marriage to be stoned to death. These biblical commands were written by people who lived at the time they were written and reflect human attitudes toward homosexuality, promiscuity, and the like. God did not write the bible.

[U Call That Journalism?!]

Managing comments to push the writer's agenda is weak, but is typical of the LA Times and most 'liberal' media.

I left a politely worded post earlier, discussing religious rules to break for Episcopalian heterosexuals now that their homosexual brethren are free to break a few, that mysteriously vanished.

Coincidentally, the last few posts have targeted religion (Christianity) and supported homosexual marriage.

Makes me want to go to the SF Chronicle, San Diego Union or Sac Bee where speech is more free. Have fun going bankrupt as English readers fade out from LA.

[P J Evans]

"Jesus is coming. The mess that is the Episcopal Church should be aware of that."

You must have missed Matthew 24:36. And Mark 13:32.

(Not that I'm surprised. Far too many people who claim to be Christian seem to be familiar only with Revelation, which is not a gospel.

[Kevin]

We are supposed to alter our actions to fit our beliefs, but the temptation is always there to alter our beliefs to fit our actions. Believing Christians should remember that we do not have authority to change the law of God (2 Peter 1:20-21; 2 Peter 3:13-16). We need to stand strong in faith in the Lord's word, refusing to alter it accommodate our sins, whether it be pride, hatred, or sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman. However, we are also strongly reminded that we do not have authority to condemn others for breaking the law (James 4:11-12). While we are all sinners, we cannot change the law of God for our convenience. And while we must stand against sin, we must also love the sinner. Who knows but that they may return to God's word one day? Let's not, by our harsh words, put any barriers between them and God. And by so doing, may we also be accounted worthy of God's forgiveness for our own sins.

[Big Jim Slade]

How exactly could the Episcopal church be MORE divided?

Last time I went to our local church there were three parishoners at the single service they held. I left shaking my head, wondering what happened to the church that held services for thousands each Sunday when I was a child.

Frankly, I'm amazed they can still pay the electric bill, let alone hold services. Regardless of the outcome of this issue, it's obvious the masses have already voted with their feet.

[Patrick]

Hmmmm, ironic how this church denomination is also shrinking rather than growing in number - ? And why is that any surprise? It's not. You can twist Scripture to say anything you want if you take it out of context. The Bible is the inspired word of God and crystal clear on what it says for over 2,000 years. Homosexuality is a sin now just like it was then. No one is saying that homosexuals aren't nice people - that's not even the issue (except for the ones who verbally assaulted the Mormons during protests downtown and faked an anthrax bomb). You can be nice and still live in sin. There are also plenty of nice adulterers, nice murderers, and nice thieves.
Patrick

[Angelica]

It's always shocking to see how many ignorant people are in this county. Homosexuality is not comparable to bestiality or polygamy. What are you people afraid of? The world is changing, you are just going to have to deal with it.

[William]

Still waiting for someone to cite chapter and verse condemning polygamy. Just for grins, try and find a verse stating that God is a Trinity (Father, Son, and Spirit). Oh, sure... you can extrapolate that idea from Scripture (or read it into the text), but isn't that the very "twisting" of "the plain truth" of "God's inerrant Word" that y'all are hollering about?

Let's not even get started about divorce, about which Jesus had some very specific things to say. If y'all want to "preserve traditional marriage" why don't you get a movement going to ban divorce? Oh, but that might be awkward, since statistics show that evangelical Christians are slightly more likely to be divorced than the average "unsaved" schmuck.

Read the Gospels, friends. Jesus, in his words and his deeds, was all about expanding the circle of who was "in". His harshest words were for the good, religious people of his day who were preoccupied with defining who was "out". They killed him for it for in the end.

Maybe the "Kingdom of God" Jesus talked about all the time is a place where there are no outsiders? And maybe God is a lot bigger than the little religious boxes we construct to constrain him?

But what do I know? I'm just one of those "unsaved" schmucks who has tried to carefully and thoughtfully read the actual words of Scripture (in their original languages!) but but lacked the benefit of Pastor Fred down at First Fundagelical Bible Church (or whomever) telling me what it all means and why "the gay menace" is the most important spiritual and religious issue of all time.

[BitHerder]

William - Genesis 2:24, restated in Matthew 19.

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."

Note that man and wife are both singular.

[William]

Thank you, BitHerder, for at least rising to the challenge. I see no prohibition on repeating the process described in those verses several times; that is, "becoming one flesh" with more than one other individual doesn't seem to be proscribed. They are beautiful verses that attest to the sacred aspect of conjugal love, though.

[Irene]

I hope all those folks who think the bible is the absolute 'word of god' aren't wearing clothing made of more than one fiber. That is forbidden as is planting two different kind of seeds in the same field. And what do you do about your neighbor who doesn't 'keep the sabbath' - the bible 'says' to harm him.
The word of God - my foot - the bible is words ABOUT God and the search certain people went through trying to figure out the confusing world around them. When they didn't understand earthquakes, they called them 'God's judgment'. For the fundamentalists - times haven't changed that much.
But some of them 'cherry pick' what verses are 'the word of God' - and ignore the ones they choose to ignore. Am delighted the Episcopal Church has joined the 21st century in acting as Jesus would have acted - welcoming ALL people.
Irene

[shadow_man]

Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don't choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. If you can, sorry, but you are not heterosexual, you are bi-sexual. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.

http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/03/differential-brain-activation.pdf
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html
Gay, Straight Men's Brain Responses Differ
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155990,00.html
http://www.livescience.com/health/060224_gay_genes.html
http://www.springerlink.com/content/w27453600k586276/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2008/06/16/172/

There is overwhelming scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. Sexual orientation is generally a biological trait that is determined pre-natally, although there is no one certain thing that explains all of the cases. "Nurture" may have some effect, but for the most part it is biological.

And it should also be noted that:
"It is worth noting that many medical and scientific organisations do believe it is impossible to change a person's sexual orientation and this is displayed in a statement by American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association."

[shadow_man]

Homosexuality is not a sin according to the Bible. Any educated Christian would know that. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, prostitution, and rape, not homosexuality.

http://www.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm
http://www.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html
http://www.christchapel.com/romans_inter.html
http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php
http://www.gaychristian101.com/

Thats why Jesus never mentions it as well. There is nothing immoral, wrong, or sinful about being gay. Jesus, however, clearly states he HATES hypocrites. If you preach goodness, then promote hate and twist the words of the Bible, you are a hypocrite, and will be judged and sent to hell. Homosexuals will not go to hell, hypocrites will.

This is very similar to the religious bigots of the past, where they took Bible passages to condone slavery, keep women down, and used Bible passages to claim blacks as curses who should be enslaved by the white man. People used God to claim that blacks marrying whites was unnatural, and not of God's will.

[Michael Pasadena]

The Episcopal Church is the Peace Corps in ecclesiastical drag. A dying and irrelevant institution. Tax it like all organized religion. If refuges from the National Organization of Women want to play church - great - but make them pay taxes for their third careers. As for gays - I'm gay, raised an Episcopalian, and can't imagine anyone with half a brain believing any of that biblical malarky and not seeing the light - all churches are run by Elmer Gantrys.

[susan riegler]

The bible does say that homosexuality is a sin. The good news is God loves sinners and is ready to forgive them if they repent. Christians are not trying to force our doctrine on anyone. why is the gay community always trying to force their opinion on us? The bible is timeless and does not change with the constantly changing social opinion.