School bus traffic sting generates tickets, controversy in South Pasadena

More than 160 people received $500 traffic citations Wednesday as part of an elaborate sting by the South Pasadena Police Department involving a decoy school bus complete with people walking on and off the vehicle.

The sting — designed to nab motorists who fail to stop for school buses with flashing red lights — has generated debate in the city. Some think the program was unfair, charging that the location was unusual for a school bus, the officers created a distraction, and there were no schoolchildren present.

“It was a crazy place for a school bus to be parked,” said Valerie McAndrews, whose 16-year-old daughter was among those cited. “You don’t stop in the middle of Huntington or you’re going to be rear-ended. In this particular instance I don’t think there was any way to obey the law.”

Others are supporting the effort, saying the city needs to crack down on drivers who don’t follow the rules. The yellow school bus first appeared on the busy six-lane road about 8 a.m. near the intersection of Milan Avenue, which has no stop sign or cross walk.

 San Gabriel resident Mary Hatton, 42, said she approached the area about 8:45 a.m. and was confused when she saw more than a dozen officers among the cars in the middle of the busy street.

 “It was a circus of lights and chaos,” she said of the sting that also involved from Alhambra, Monterey Park, San Gabriel, San Marino and the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Temple City station. “No one was speeding, I mean people were literally just trying to figure out what was going on and what to do to to keep away from whatever the activity was. I thought I was being directed along with other motorists away from whatever it was that was happening.”

Hatton received the $500 ticket.

The South Pasadena Police Department first decided to set up the sting in the area after receiving a complaint from the parents of a disabled child who boards a school bus on Huntington, Police Chief Dan Watson said.

“They’ve had a difficult time getting to the bus because people don’t comply with the vehicle code,” he said.

Read the full story here.

--Corina Knoll in South Pasadena

Comments

[Dude]

Scam! I got caught for the same citation, on Sierra Highway in Saugus in 2002. $500!

[jwa]

People know the rules about school buses, yet they fail to stop when they're supposed to. Its a good sting operation. These people need to learn to follow the rules before it could possibly be to late and a child gets hurt or killed because they didn't stop.

[Wayne]

More power to S. Pasadena PD. Everyone cited will have an excuse. Bottom line? When the red lights are flashing, stop! Next they should set up stings in school zones, where the 25 mph speed limit ignored more often than obeyed.

[Chris Winn]

It does not matter where it is at, a 45 foot long school bus with FLASHING RED LIGHTS means stop. Have a nice day.

[lk]

Do cops have anything better to do? Like solve crime?? This is why city officials need more cops! They do not have enough people to create fake citations to dupe me and you, the honest taxpayer out of our hard earn dollar.

This is disgusting!

Write to your elected official, and get these cops back on the leash.

[Hugo]

This is just another tax by the city. Don't plead guilty and do a change of venue to the county seat, the lazy officer will probably forget to show up in Downtown LA since he is going to working guarding a movie set.

[Anonymous]

If there were no schoolchildren present, there can be no violation, and the tickets should be thrown out.

I think the police in South Pasadena need to re-read Vehicle Code section 22454, particularly the words "for the purpose of loading or unloading any schoolchildren."

[Otis]

Pasadena police are famous for the stoplight patterns on Colorado in Old Town that produce gridlock and the subsequent tickets from the patrol cars positioned to 'catch' the unfortunate. They could inform and give warnings but Pasadena chooses to generate income from driver-beware tactics. Disgraceful.

[jesus]

The violator say is not fair, but the police is doing the right thing because children need to be protected. Motorist think they have superpowers when driving in rush hour, but the reality is that it just take a split second for a tragedy to occur.

[doug]

“It was a circus of lights and chaos,” she said of the sting that also involved from Alhambra, Monterey Park, San Gabriel, San Marino and the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Temple City station."

$500 for a ticket? Are you kidding me??? It's no wonder all the police departments from the SGV want in on the action. It's one way to keep their jobs.

[Michelle]

It's really a shame that police-generated confusion would lead that woman (who was just trying to figure out what was going on) to get a $500 ticket. That doesn't seem fair.

[James Los Angeles]

Plain and simple English, when you see a school bus stopped with flashing lights, and a stop sign.....STOP the Car/Truck/Suv. because someones child may be darting out from behind it.

500.00 dollars to potentially save a child's life seems well worth it to me.

If your in a hurry, leave a little early.... Throw out the old excuses, that only matter when you get caught.

[Cesar Acosta]

I am one of those who was given a ticket that day. I drive Huntington Dr. everyday and I agree that it was a crazy thing to park that "decoy school bus" and expect motorists to stop in the middle of Huntington Dr., besides I did not see anybody speeding. It was just a way to get money from us. I think we should unite and petition whoever is responsible for this to eliminate or at least reduce the fines. We should not take this lying down. It was a crazy and dangerous action from the police departments involved to expect us to stop in the middle of a very busy boulevard.

[Jennifer]

Just another reminder that the police are more interested in ticketing citizens and "setting them up" than focusing on the real issues...crime. Disgusting. I can't stand the police and the departments from which they come. I've been burglarized twice and the police were too busy giving people tickets to help me. S. Pasadena should be ashamed. Why not issue warnings? Oh, they need the revenue. They suck.

[Ronin]

So Pasadena is trying to make up a loss in their budget. Hey, it's just extortion, relax. Of course in the mean time your insurance also goes up. More extortion. I feel sorry for the cops anymore. People hate them for good reason, but it's really the city's, counties, and state that are forcing them to right BS tickets. If you're a cop out there, don't you think it's time to tell them to take a hike so you can do your real job??

[Adrian]

BRAVO! As a South Pas resident I applaud their efforts. Traffic speeding through our community is a hazard. Folks drive their cars through our community like speeding bullets. Lets give South Pas PD a brake and give credit where credit is due. THUMBS UP!

[matt]

The root of the problem is too many public employyees. Too many traffic cops means traffic cops need to go out and create elaborate rouses to raise revenue. All of these tickets should be thrown out. THis is shameless revenue seeking.

matt

[ann]

i see. so because one person couldn't get on the bus because it stops in a bad place for a bus to stop, 160 people were targeted to generate $80,000 in tickets for sopas. does this seem like the solution?

the place to "make sure people know the rules" is where they test for and dispense drivers' licenses. if those tests were real tests in the first place, that actually required study and attention, that would help. second, maybe school buses shouldn't be stopping to make pickups on such busy, heavy traffic roads.

[josh]

160 x 5 = 80,000 dollars. crooks

[Tony]

I also got one of these brilliant tickets! To add to the confusion, a few yards east on Huntington Dr. was a film crew with 3 large studio production trucks with more police. One would assume this school bus was part of the set? You can see cops everywhere on Huntington from Fletcher to Fair Oaks. Some were working with the real film crew and the others were there for the school bus entrapment. Why would a school bus be on Huntington after 8:30 am during the week? There were a bunch of cops, flashing lights everywhere, it was super confusing. Lastly, Huntington Dr. is Route 66, why would a school kid be crossing a major highway without using the cross walk? There was no kids in sight, everyone was confused. The only thing that was making sense was to get away from the crazy situation as quickly as possible. So unfair.

[good intentions gone wrong]

It's too bad that law enforcement failed to closely read the Vehicle Code. While I support the idea, and am frustrated when I see people not obey the red lights for legitimate bus stops, this appears to be haphazard and not very well thought out.

The cited drivers will likely have a good argument if they can show that the "people" getting on and off the bus were not pupils. It's likely they weren't, and an even better indicator would be if school is on summer break. Simply because a child is of school age, does not necessarily make him/her a pupil if not attending school at the time. The vehicle code clearly says loading and unloading of pupils.

In addition, if the bus was not stopped at a bus stop designated by the school district for pupils, then the bus would not be allowed to use its amber or red flashing lights for an undesignated stop.

I hope the SPPD and other assisting agencies thought through all of the above, but it seems like they haven't and just wanted to generate tickets. Good luck proving your cases in court.

[chris]

sounds about right! i grew up in temple city and the sheriffs have been pulling variations of this stunt for years...ive lived all over the country and every ticket ive ever gotten has been in that area...they have nothing else to do...

[Mr. Rogers]

I guess they need the funds for that Boring Parade each year
YAAAAWWWWNNNNNNN.

[mike]

If I am not mistaken, school is not in session at this time. Seems to me like it's just one more way for the county to increase it's revenue. Were the Yellow lights flashing on the bus? If they are not on, you shouldn't have to stop.

[Chris]

I know that officials will deny this until they're blue in the face, but it's hard to see this as anything other than a profit-center for local cities & police. I understand the safety message being sent, but it also sounds like a quick way to make $500.

[Louie]

To protect and serve right? This is ridiculous. The police deparment, which is funded by the public, shouldn't be tricking the public into trap situations to basically steal more money. I was targeted in a similar sting exiting an off ramp in Vegas a few years ago. A car appeared to be stalled at the top of the ramp blocking the lane, so I proceeded to follow the flow of traffic around the car to find a cop waiting for me. The citation was for exiting on the shoulder. Everyone who took that exit had to fork over $250. How can this be allowed to happen. You can't trust the police.

[Hmmmmmmm]

This is an interesting way to get revenue

[Ca Commenter]

If the judge handling these cases (and I believe that many of them will go to court) has any sense of decency about him/her the judge will end this circus by dismissng every ticket that these in my opinion worthless egotistical dirtbags issued. This is nothing but entrapment in my opinion.

[dodger tony]

Liars. Its all about the Benjamins and puffing up the coffers in a failing economy.

[substudio]

there needs to be an ad campaign on what to do with school buses...
it becomes so confusing sometimes when you see the lights flashing.

[Bob]

Outrageous! Police Chief Dan Watson works for the people of South Pasadena, not the other way around. He should be fired.

[Roy From Atwater]

Ticket the hell out of the idiots that break the law!!! While they're at it, go after the knucklehead pedestrians who cross when it says don't walk, jay walk in the middle of the block, etc. What kind of example does it set for our children when they see people picking and choosing what laws they feel like obeying...

[rick]

Gee. What an easy way for a small city like South Pasadena to extort money from people passing through their city. You don't think money has anything to do with this do you? I mean, our government wouldn't do things like this would they? That would be like installing red light traffic cameras to give out 400 dollar tickets instead of simply delaying the opposing signal by one second to actually prevent an accident. Oh wait a minute...they do that you say. Nevermind. But I'm sure the judge would see the unfairness of red light traffic cameras and stings like this. And I'm sure South Pasadena will be happy to waive the fines for non citizens even though they have just been taxed without representation...because that's exactly what this is.....a defacto tax. Get used to it folks. The government will find ways to get OUR money in these times. They always do.

[david jenson]

I would like to see a sting on the police. Set up a speed trap outside a police station and nail policemen racing to get home after they get off work. After all, it's only fair right?

[gregory stanley]

what's next, line up for the shower, no need for a towel.

[Anonymous]

I was one of the drivers who was ticketed. I understand the purpose of the sting, which is to protect schoolkids who might try to cross a crowded street. Of course I feel for the disabled kid who has to cross Huntington every day.

But the execution of the sting was unfair. I never saw a school bus, which is unsurprising given that I was in the left-most lane on three-lane Huntington, it's rush hour traffic on a busy thoroughfare and 12 or so police vehicles came out of nowhere causing total chaos. I would have no objection if I failed to see a school bus on a one lane road or on a road with less traffic or even on Huntington during rush hour if there weren't a dozen police cars and motorcycles swooping in. That would be my fault and I would gladly pay the ticket having learned my lesson. Even given the distractions, I'm not especially proud that I didn't manage to see the school bus, but I don't think I deserve a $500 ticket.

The officer who stopped me said they videotaped the entire encounter and that the police only moved in after drivers passed the bus and a defense of "I was distracted by the police" hasn't worked in similar cases. I have my doubts on the video and I have no idea on the timing of the police movement vis a vis the bus. I am going to request discovery and will post here if the D.A. actually produces videotape or notes. I'm also going to attend the regularly scheduled South Pasadena city council meeting on July 1 at 7:30 at 1424 Mission Street to protest this sting. The violation (Cal. Veh. Code 22454(a)) is only a one-point infraction and I understand that a single point might not affect your premiums. Thus, it might not cost a person to fight the case instead of going through traffic school. I wouldn't normally fight a moving violation, especially one designed to protect schoolchildren, but I think my failure to see the bus wasn't even negligent given the circumstances and despite their purported noble intentions this seems to have been a transparent attempt to raise revenue by handing out very expensive tickets for a questionable moving violation.

Cal. Veh. Cod 22454(a) does require that the school bus have both flashing lights and a red stop sign. I assume the decoy bus had lights. Does anyone know if it had a red stop sign?

[david]

Looks like another money making scheme to me, I've noticed more people being pulled over lately in general, especially by the highway patroll. I think this is one way they are trying to get money for state and local governments, by writing more traffic tickets.

[boo boo]

This is horrible!
First the government takes our tax dollars to bail out the privately owned banks.
The government needs more of our money so they sick the police on the general public to basically rob off by setting up a fake school bus.
This sounds too horrible to be true!
I have a feeling this isn't the first stunt that will be taking place to get the rest of our savings from us.
This is really scary and needs to be looked into!

[JohnB]

This is BS. Next time be honest, set up a road block and have them pay $500 to pass.

[Just Curious]

It would be nice if Corina Knoll added some useful information to this article so that readers will know what to do when they drive up on a school bus with red lights flashing. I've noticed that drivers don't follow the rules, but it would be helpful to get a reminder out there as to exactly what's expected of motorists in this instance.

[Michae, MPA]

Sounds like an abuse of authority to generate revenue to me.

[Chris Camp]

Undermining the trust in the law by improperly enforcing it...

Need revenue?
Poor municipalities :(

[John Lyman]

As an elementary school teacher I am a little appalled that special needs kids get 95% of the attention. If I were a parent I'd fight for my non-special needs kids' rights.

[Tsiongky]

Ticket these too to generate money for the state and keep lawbreakers in check:
1. Jaywalking pedestrians and bicycles
2. Speeding vehicles in 25-30mph zones
3. Failure to stop at STOP signs in subdivisions
4. Slow-moving vehicles hogging the fast lane
Readers: keep adding to this list thanks!

[Taitano]

All cops are crooks and this is just their pathetic attempt to steal money from hard working citizens. Cops are such pigs and just power hungry individuals. These fat pigs just sit around and give out bogus tickets. They have so much free time and considering these economic conditions, they should be laid off instead of wasting our money. These tickets are pure revenue for the city and their pockets.

[JUAN DE MONTERREY]

This is abusive. The story would have been different had the sting caused a fatal accident. I hope the judge throws the cases out. Maybe someone will bring legal action against the police department for staging such a numbskull maneuver. Next, they can push (empty) baby carriages in front of cars who appear not to be stopping at intersections. Or set up unreasonable and unexpected speed limits in order to increase the volume of speeding tickets. People do need to pay more attention to where they are going, but this is not the way to do it. Maybe cities could require their residents to have "safety licenses" in order to drive in the city. There could be educational prerequisites and they could charge for this. It is a lot better to be upfront and transparent. This stunt is reminiscent of backwoods southern sheriffs of yesteryear.

[Justin CLark]

The ticket operation pulled in 80K...how much did it cost for this nonsense? Instead of issuing bogus tickets, how about the parents of that disabled child take him to a safe place to board the bus instead of fining drivers who don't stop in the middle of traffic.

[Mr. Smart]

I hate cops.

[carol duran]

decoy or not these people who got tickets were not paying
attention and didn't abide to the rules of the road...and not one
will admit.
i see so much indignation among drivers
too many people in the world not willing to accept responsibilty
for their actions and choices
mere men.....

[Richard S]

VC Section 22454 states that the bus must be "stopped for the purpose of loading or unloading any schoolchildren".

I don't see how a judge could possibly find this sting operation, where no schoolchildren were present, to be a valid enforcement of 22454.

[Dave S]

The sad reality is: The Traffic Court Judge/Commissioner will not dismiss the ticket--this is revenue for the local government and it pays his/her salaries, pension, health benefits, etc. If it's a Commissioner, he/she would not want to lose his/her job by not playing alone this revenue-producing scheme.

I believe there are enough traffic code violators out there--I see it EVERYTIME I drive--so there is no need to set up any revenue-draining sting operation (that's right, we're talking overtime pay and other goodies for cops on these operations). The cops just need to do their job hinding behind stop signs or use their radar guns--but I guess that's just too much work!

[Jason Hayes]

Come on people, how else are we supposed to pay for the Lakers celebration parade? Think a little before you spout off. really.

[jayteereal]

What better way to make a little extra money for the city and the police dept., and to keep anyone from getting laid off; Do a sting to make up the difference. Wow!!, we as Californians are constantly getting screwed one way or another Cuts, Gas, Taxes, DMV increases, Parking Fee Increases, What's next?

[oversight]

And since a school bus is not an "authorized emergency vehicle" as defined in CVC, whomever activated its red lights was breaking the law if no students were actually loading or unloading.

[Gavin]

To all of you citizens who are outraged by this. I commend you for seeing the unfairness of this and urge you to fight this type of activity whenever possible. I used to work in government and trust me when I say this, whenever we wanted to sell something to the public we would wrap it in the cloak of "public safety" to increase our "revenues". Please don't tolerate this. Attend the South Pasadena City Council meeting and voice your outrage as one of those who was ticketed suggested. Alert the media to attend. You see, if other cities see that South Pasadena is getting away with it, then they'll do the same thing and soon you'll fall victim to this as well.

To those of you writing in support of the police on this issue, I truly feel sorry for you. You really do not know how wrong you are. Trust me on that one. And I pose this to you. Do you never break a traffic law? Do you think a $500 dollar fine is a fair punishment? You really should think a little bit more before you blindly line up behind "justice". It goes deeper than that. If you have an honest friend who works in government ask him/her if they use traffic/parking fines as a way to increase revenue. If they're honest with you, they will tell you yes. If they say no, they're lying. Some cities just abuse more than others...I.E. Culver City and Santa Monica now South Pasadena

As for you my formerly beloved Los Angeles County. I've had it. When I was growing up here it was such a place of promise, yet now you seem to take a lot and give very little in return. Adios.

[jayteereal]

Maybe since our leaders are trying so hard to bleed us so much out of our money, before long California will be the first poorest 3rd world state in the US

[Jim]

Nice! I second the statement that this post should have cited the CA rules when encountering a school bus.

[JohnB]

So when did they move the Mexican border this far north? or are we now training police officers in Mexico?
I hope everyone who got a ticket fights it and ties up the court.

[Raffi]

If there was a circus of lights, and "more than a dozen officers among the cars in the middle of the busy street.", the people going past the bus were probably simply doing what is logical, and trying to go slowly around the scene of a crime/traffic accident - since there were so many cops and none of them telling drivers to stop. By the very nature of the circus they created, they nullified the normal scenario of a school bus with flashing lights on the side of the road, which is supposedly the problem they were trying to address. Throw the tickets out, this is a ridiculous waste of taxpayer time and money.

[John M. Fickewirth]

I worked my way through college driving school buses. I have absolutely no sympathy for those who run through the buses' flashing red lights. In fact, we used to contact the local law enforcement agency and ask them to follow the busses and give tickets to those running the lights.

These people deserve their tickets. When you see a school bus it means children are around. When you see the lights flash that means kids are out of the bus and on the pavement. To not stop is to endanger the lives of children.

As for the bus being stopped in a strange location, this is often the case. Busses transporting severely disable children stop at each individual home and not at a regular bus stop. I know, I used to drive those busses and was very annoyed when people ran through the flashing lights.

My only complaint is that the fine is too low.

[Matthew Dillon]

Entrapment.

[Garrett]

I just sent an email of complaint to the South Pasadena Extortionist Department. You guys should do the same

cmoffice@ci.south-pasadena.ca.us City Mangaers Office

SGonzalez@ci.south-pasadena.ca.us Asst City Manager

dwatson@ci.south-pasadena.ca.us Police Chief

[Joanna]

This is the second "sting" operation conducted by the SGV police departments that I have heard about. A few weeks earlier, at Chelsea and Huntington in San Marino, the police had set up a decoy to march across and back at a very poorly marked crosswalk. I understand wanting to remind people of driving safely but I find it more than a coincidence that theses "stings" are becoming more frequent because these municipalities are worried about safety. I wonder what the price tag is in conducting such an operation? I believe it needs to prove itself lucrative in order to borrow police officers from the surrounding cities or else why bother? These locations were picked because it was an easy way for the police to raise revenue.

It is a difficult financial time for everyone. Not just the SGV police departments. My advice? Steer clear of Huntington Drive.

[Kyle Reppert]

If I were the motorists ticketed I would collectively get together and file a class action against the City of South Pasadena for issuing fraudulent tickets, because clearly no motorists violated VC Section 22454, as the bus was not stopped for the purpose of loading or unloading any schoolchildren. Furthermore you can sue for abusive police power, time wasted, etc...

Furthermore all of you disgusted by this story should BOYCOTT all businesses in the City of South Pasadena, until the Police Chief is fired and all police involved in the sting are repramanded. Just note too that if you drive into South Pasadena don't be surprised if the police try to give you a bogus ticket too.

Is it any wonder why people have such a distrust for cops? Also if police are willing to lie on such a small thing like a school bus stop, what makes you think they aren't going to lie on larger crime issues such as a murder case, remember police are always looking for their next arrest to get themselves promoted. If you are ever on a jury, I would be leary to trust anything the police say, and with that you can get reasonable doubt. Why are police so surprised that people don't like them? Its because of bogus things like this.

[joe s.]

just another example of the mistakes made by politicians/city administrators,that we the common people have to pay for!

[thedude1977]

"Come on people, how else are we supposed to pay for the Lakers celebration parade? Think a little before you spout off. really.

Posted by: Jason Hayes | June 19, 2009 at 08:52 AM"

I just had to respond to this, because of that "think a little before you spout off" line.

Well, Jason Hayes, South Pasadena is not part of the City of Los Angeles, so none of the money collected in this sting would ever have had anything to do with the Laker parade. Also, as you should know - because it has been extensively reported - no City of Los Angeles funds or taxpayer dollars were used to fund the Laker parade. The Los Angeles Lakers organization funded half the money needed, and private donations funded the rest.

[Delta Sierra]

Nice to see there's so little crime in South Pasadena the police have time to fritz around with dubious stuff like this.

[Christine Beatty]

I *still* see people gabbing away on cellphones in their cars a year after the hands-free law went into effect. Why not go after them to generate revenue instead of this elaborate ruse?

[Kyle Reppert]

Oh in addition, anyone who received a fine of $20 or more, you are entitled to a JURY TRIAL per the US Constitution. So go to the courthouse and request a JURY TRIAL, all it takes is one person on the Jury to agree with you and your case is thrown out, plus it ties up the court system, costs the city lots of money, and pisses the judge off that such a bogus ticket is in his court and cutting into his golf scheduale. So REQUEST A JURY TRIAL, you usually have 10-21 days to request it after receiving the citation, but they won't tell you about it, so go to your courthouse ASAP and request a JURY TRIAL!

[Very simple]

I'm not at all surprised the City of South Pasadena arranged something like this. South Pasadena is the master of passive-aggressive public policy. Exhibit A: the 710 freeway extension

[Randy]

That's a great idea (what someone wrote that I pasted below) TO ALL OF YOU WHO RECEIVED TICKETS. Please plead not guilty on it so you take up their time in court. It forces the police to come in on their off hours and receive overtime and that costs the city money so you can strike back that way

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
So when did they move the Mexican border this far north? or are we now training police officers in Mexico?
I hope everyone who got a ticket fights it and ties up the court.

[Da Maverick]

This sounds unfair and I do hope everyone who got a ticket contests it.

But what I would really like to see a sting on is motorists who don't stop or TRY to pull over when an emergency vehicle is approaching with its lights on. I can't tell you how many times I have seen ambulances have to drive like it's a gauntlet around idiot drivers who don't know they are supposed to swerve off to the right if possible. No, some of these drivers just stop, and others who are on the opposing side of the street just continue to drive. Come on people, what if these emergency vehicles were responding to your house on fire, to your kid swallowing paint thinner, or to a burglary at your house? Ticket these people to the max.

[Joe Johnson]

I have had it living here in South California. We are a welfare state. Our elected officials get top dollar and we get nothing in return. This traffic sting is not about public safety. It is simply more money to fatten the pockets of our elected officials -- pure government waste.

Did you know that LAUSD teachers have the highest salary in the United States when compared to all other school districts? Our LAUSD superintendent makes over $300K, excluding perks. Los Angeles City Council members make over $175K, excluding perks. City of Monterey Park council members get life time health care after 5 years of service -- Our government is out of control!!!

It is time for everyone to look closely as to where are our tax payer's money is going. We are becoming a socialist country. Why work? Just go on welfare and have the government pay for everything. Section 8, IHSS, Workman Comp, Disability and Food Stamp to just to name a few. We simply encourage people to go on welfare. Why should anyone go out and look for work when they can collect thousands of dollars in assistance per month. Our government claims to be out of money, but yet no one cares when fraud is rampant in many of the welfare programs.

It is time to clean house and get rid of all these morons out of office. I doubt many of them can survive working in the private sectors.

[mark]

I am amazed at how many people like the idea of people NOT obeying common traffic laws. You think if there had been REAL kids, these speeders would have stopped? Maybe if only a few kids were hit and killed by people not obeying the traffic laws, then the crazies who think it's a money generating scam would keep their ridiculous attitudes to them selves.
If there's a bus, WITH flashing lights, you STOP.
Is this difficult for some people to understand? Takes too many mental steps? And I love the one who thinks this is like the police in Mexico. Yes, enforcing traffic laws is a third-world country thing. Why would police do that?
Again for all those confused by the issue,I'll break it down - school bus, flashing lights, stop sign extended, stop your car. End of story.

[Harvey]

Fire the person who authorized this "sting". Huntington is a divided highway (look at the images on google maps for example) with three lanes of traffic in each direction PLUS left turn lanes PLUS parking along the curb. The law is designed to protect children as they exit the bus and attempt to cross the street in front of the bus as they are totally hidden until they are in the traffic lane. This is very necessary on a two lane road such as a residential street, but as the street gets wider with more lanes, children should only be allowed to cross at a corner in a crosswalk. Obviously, a bus could obscure a stop sign at a corner so that a motorist could go zooming by unaware of the normal need to stop, so the flashing red lights and the red stop sign are much needed. Buses should never be allowed to let children off on a six lane highway if they need to cross the street -this would be criminal on the part of the bus driver. Dismiss all the tickets and issue a public and private apology to all those that got tickets. This is a case of the police abusing the law.

[Eric of Reseda]

Cha-CHING! There's a quick $80,000! Folks, this is NOT about children's safety ONE IOTA! This is about increasing revenue, pure and simple! Nationally, about 6-7 kids die annuallly in this scenario. And since WHEN does the PD set-up an elaborate sting based on one minor complaint...unless it provides convenient cover for their scheme. This is one more manifestation of government putting the screws to The People for the purposes of generating revenue. And as usual, it's because they have woefully mismanaged the monies we've already given 'em.

[Mallory]

This sting operatin may have had good intentions, but they may have run in fowl of the law themselves by setting up this operation. Dependent upon the laws of the state of California or any local laws, this bust stop shceme sting may have broken the law and Pasadena could be in for a Class Action Lawsuit?

[Senor K]

This was a poorly executed sting by all the police agencies involved. Misguided and flawed in many respects. There were no children present, no schools nearby, no crosswalks, no stop signs, no traffic signals. What kind of school bus driver would drop off or pick up kids in this dangerous environment? The scene might as well have been a Hollywood movie set. In fact, I believed that they were filming a scene for a motion picture. Sirens blaring, production trucks, a squadron of motor cops speeding out into traffic. Yes folks, there were rows of white King Kong production vehicles lined up two blocks before the school bus on Bushnell at the time of the sting. Motorists were just trying to figure out what the heck to do in all the confusion! I was not driving unsafely either. The officer who pulled me over wrote on my citation that I was traveling at a rate of of 30-35 mph, well below the 40 mph speed limit on Huntington.

The officer also told me that there were "decoys" getting off and on the bus. Were they schoolchildren or schlubby city workers volunteering to be bait? The code specifically states "For the purpose of loading or unloading schoolchildren". We have to fight this people. If enough of us complain about the flawed nature of this sting, they will throw it out.

[DRE DAWG]

FIGHT THE TICKETS!!! TOTAL ENTRAPMENT!!! IF EVERYONE BANDS TOGETHER, YOU CAN PUT SOME MAJOR HEAT ON SO.PAS POLICE FORCE AND THE CITY COUNCIL!!!

No one stops on Huntington for a bus....No Way!!! That street is a busy, busy highway. AND....no bus would just drop kids off there and make them walk across that highway where there is no crosswalk and 6 lanes for a kid to cross with out a crossing guard....that should be against the law!!!

[Rick]

To the person who signed in as Mark andwrote in at 10:36 AM supporting this sting:

No. What is amazing is that you support this type of abuse from the police. What if you got the ticket? Would you still think its fair? Step outside your box. People are angry because they are sick of this stuff. If it's not the red light traffic cameras then its this. Most people try to obey traffic laws but we're human and every single one of us makes mistakes. The fines in California are not in line with the so called "crime". $500 for this. $400 for red light traffic cameras, etc. etc. Even at $100 it's a steep fine but beyond that it's just abusive.

Don't be naive. Why do you think South Pasadena used the cover of a school bus to conduct this sting. Sure...let's "do it for the children" as they say. Come on. They thought they were going to get away with it and thankfully the readers of the L.A. Times have had enough. I am so happy to see people have finally opened their eyes and realize that cities are using their police and traffic departments to "raise revenues". They feel entitled to OUR money and that's the problem. I can just see their smug little government faces as they dreamt up this scheme that has now backfired on them.

Please. To those of you who received tickets find a way to band together and fight this as a group. There's power in numbers. Don't let them get away with it!!!!!!!!!! The public is behind you!

I'm proud of you citizens of Los Angeles. DO NOT TAKE THIS ABUSE FROM YOUR GOVERNMENT OR POLICE DEPARTMENTS. We still live in America and we still have rights.

[Steve]

I was also "stung" by this operation. They may have had good intentions, but the setup was totally flawed. The bus was nowhere near a crosswalk and there was no indication that any children were present. There was a stop sign on the side of the bus, but was so low it was not visible behind the other cars until it was too late, and slamming on your brakes on Huntington is a great way to get read-ended.
I agree with the comment that everyone should request a court appearance - make them do something for that hefty $500 citation. South Pas needs to find some other way to support their police force. (Just FYI they also issue citations for missing front license plates ... I guess they gotta make the money somehow).

[G Man]

If this were a genuine effort to raise awareness of school bus stop safety problems, then the police should have created a checkpoint and made ALL cars stop where the bus was located. Police could have then told the drivers that they need to stop when school bus lights flash and SCHOOLCHILDREN ARE PRESENT and then hand them a copy of the vehicle code to reinforce the lesson. Instead, police used a punitive measure that enraged more than it educated. The vehicle code also states that fines for first-time offenders should range from $150 to $250. Why is the fine $500 in this case? One city official dimisses the notion that the action was used to generate revenue. How can it be construed otherwise? To the commenters who say that a ticket should have been issued in any case: If you had been driving into the chaos that I did, you would feel differently. It's easy to comment when you do not have a grasp of the event. Driving into a sea of chaos with police vehicles with lights flashing and sirens blaring and not knowing if an emergency had just occurred or if a crew were filming a movie scene is no easy task. Trying spotting the school bus on a six-land throughfare in this scenario. I'm not going out without a fight on this, and everyone who got caught in this ill-conceived and poorly executed sting should do the same.

[truthiness]

traffic code says drivers may not pass a school bus with its red lights flashing when it is "stopped for the purpose of loading or unloading any schoolchildren."

this bus was not loading or unloading schoolchildren, rather adult, police decoys. so, that part of the code would not apply here. am i missing something?

[Amy]

I am one of those who was given a ticket that day and the execution of the sting was so unfair knowing the fact that the school clearly is on summer break.

I drive 35 mph in 40 mph zone on Huntington Dr. every day I never saw a school bus, it's rush hour traffic on a busy thoroughfare and 12 or so police vehicles came out of Milan Avenue swooping in causing total chaos. I agree that it was a crazy thing to park that "decoy school bus" near the intersection of Milan Avenue, which has no stop sign or cross walk besides I did not see anybody speeding, I did not see any schoolchildren and lastly I didn’t not see the flashing red light signal nor stop signal arm.
It was a circus of lights and chaos and I honestly was scared and thought there was a police pursuit or something, I mean people were literally just trying to figure out what was going on and what to do to keep away from whatever the activity was. I thought I was being directed along with other motorists away from whatever it was that was happening. It was a crazy and dangerous action from the police departments involved to expect us to stop in the middle of a very busy street especially when they swarmed in to protect and serve.

They shouldn't be tricking the public into trap situations to basically steal more money especially in this economy where every penny count thus if they are really have a good intention to catch the violater why do they have to setup a sting with a decoy school bus, why cant they just being honest and go out there waiting for the REAL violator instead of looking for an easy money out of poor people in the such short amount of time that most them dont even know why they being cited for.

Therefore I'm also going to attend the regularly scheduled South Pasadena city council meeting on July 1 at 7:30 at 1424 Mission Street to protest this sting.

[Steve]

To all of you complaining about this, read the article. Why did the police conduct this sting? Because some parents complained because PEOPLE WEREN'T OBEYING THE LAW and stopping for the school bus as the law requires and were ENDANGERING THE LIFE OF THEIR CHILD! If it was your child, wouldn't you complain too if people were ignoring the flashing red lights and stop sign while your child was getting on or off the school bus? Obey the law and you won't get a ticket.

[Rob]

Maybe this question has been asked before, but does a school bus have to stop at a marked location i.e. specifically designated curb site, area with proper signage, etc. or can it stop at any location where children choose to stand?

I raise this point, as a school bus stopping at a random location (no crosswalk) can create an unfortunate scenario that a person could be either running to or from the bus across a busy street, creating a greater hazard, to an extent, caused by the pedestrian.

[DJB]

I agree with this guy's analysis of this situation:
http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/06/19/times-readers-freak-out-at-so-pasadena-school-bus-sting/

Sounds like a bunch of drivers who don't think they need to follow the law when they're in a hurry. God forbid disabled children be able to board a school bus.

[ROBERT]

So, did they pull up stop and discharge the "children" or did they sit there and sit there and sit there? If there was no crosswalk, what is the driver toi think?

I don't disagree that unsafe actions should be addressed, but what was this sting about? Did the "children have to cross the street? Then, where was he crosswalk?

Something smells here!

[Sara]

Where are the grownups here? I've been caught in traffic traps before: yes, it's embarrassing; yes, you feel tricked. But ultimately you have to concede that you broke the law, and a good law at that. And remember, you only found out afterward that it was a sting; you only found out afterward that it might have been done in a sneaky way or with sleazy motives. BEFORE THAT, you broke a law intended to ensure the safety of schoolchildren. For shame.

[Christopher B]

Don't mess with people from South Pasadena, they're white and they have money! Remember how they didn't want the continuation of the freeway and they wanted the Gold Line silenced.

[jp losman]

just read the followup story that the pd will be requesting that all the tickets be dismissed because of the fact that the bus was not loading or unloading schoolchildren, as would be required for violators to be cited. that leaves a big question, just who is this "Matthew St. George, a Superior Court commissioner in Alhambra", and what are his credentials? remember, he was on-site and approved the operation as legal.

[Kevin]

I was right in the midst of the second stupidest thing the south pas pd have done. the first was their sting of pedestrian crossing earlier this year...i "got busted"

Now here's some good news and I'm VERY happy for those who "received" citation. Way to fight back!! I hope the popo's think 2x before they go on doing something as dumb as this. Yes, they need the money and it seems it's the only way they can get it.

Read below: http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_12650578

[Steve Yorks]

How is this any different than "RADAR" or speed traps?
IT IS THE LAW to stop for a school bus with the alternating flashing red lights displayed, it really is the LAW. I can't imagine that any of you would rather run over a child than receive this kind of reminder to stop when the lights are displayed, talk to the parent of a child that was injured or killed, maybe that will convince you. If you're in that big of a hurry you should have left earlier for your destination!!!

[What a Shame]

The back of a school bus clearly states, "STOP when red lights flash". They also have the ability to stop with YELLOW lights flashing-- that means SLOW DOWN AND TAKE CAUTION. It's not rocket science. Those are basic rules for the road. No sympathy to those of you who got tickets.

[Steve]

Those of you writing in support of this sting are truly unbelievable. If South Pasadena wanted to send a message all they had to do was issue a warning. Do you think these stings really do anything other than generate money for the city. Please don't be naive and please don't use children as the excuse for any sort of oppression the P.D. wishes to inflict upon citizens. Most people are for law and order, however, the problem with this is not only are stings unfair, but the price is beyond punitive. $500 dollars? Are you kidding me. Do you realize that for someone making minimum wage South Pasadena effectively put a gun to his/her head and stole food off of the table.

What is wrong with you people. Do you really believe your government never makes mistakes? They do and will continue to do so. The only reason So. Pas backed off on this one is they saw the comments of outrage here as well as the L.A. Times story that put pressure on them. I want you to know something and I say this as one who has worked in the highest levels of government. Local governments consider traffic and parking fines as the easiest form of revenue in Los Angeles. Want to know why? Because we have 88 cities in the county of L.A. and if you're a small city like South Pasadena, you have a good chance of ticketing a majority of people who don't have any say over your actions...those who live in the other 87 cities. Do you think this is fair? I don't, but I assure you those who run the cities do.

I really wonder if those of you writing in support of this sting would be so supportive if you got the $500 ticket. I don't think you would. It's so easy to lash out at others you consider "law breakers" until you become that "law breaker". The real lawbreakers are the South Pasadena City Manager and Police Chief. Just because they used their ticket book under the color of authority instead of a gun to steal from these good people does not make them any less criminal in my eyes.

To those of you who received tickets and will now get them dismissed. I want you to know I am very happy for you. It must feel nice. Victory is yours. You never deserved that ticket in the first place and its nice to see you've been vindicated.

To the South Pasadena City Leaders. The stench of your unspoken arrogance disgusts me.

[Alex]

The law to stop for school buses is stupid and dangerous in and of itself. It causes accidents everywhere AND it causes a false sense of security for kids.

[Christina Wong]

If the City REALLY wanted to control speed and caution drivers in this high-risk area, what they should do is set up a permanent speed monitor (like the one in front of the Alhambra School Discrict offices); now THAT is effective. What's not effective is setting up the one day sting; so, okay, you catch a few ppl and raise awareness amongst other drivers who happen to be driving the same route and see what's going on. However, what about the hundreds/thousands of other drivers who regularly drive that route, but missed the spectacle or news coverage? Or the random NEW drivers going down Huntington who are not aware? Seems to be more of a "show" than real prevention.

[WJW]

This law is a crock to begin with as it is another one of Big Brother's excuses for bad parenting. If people would teach their little darlings safety at home, laws like this wouldn't be necessary. I agree with the poster who said to raise the fine to those who talk on cell phones without a hands free device to generate money for the coffers.

[Dana]

I agree regarding the safety of the kids. How about someone going to school and teach the kids to cross the street only on the crosswalk and not on the front or behind the schoolbus?