Mayors criticize Justice Department support for Defense of Marriage Act [Updated]

With the Obama administration facing growing discontent among gay supporters, the mayors of Los Angeles and San Francisco joined in voicing concern today about a new U.S. Justice Department brief supporting the federal Defense of Marriage Act.

"I think it's a big mistake," San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom said shortly before he and his Los Angeles counterpart, Antonio Villaraigosa, kicked off the annual L.A. Pride parade in West Hollywood.

The 1996 law bars the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages and enables states to refuse to recognize such marriages from other states. The Justice Department enraged leaders of gay rights groups Thursday by filing a lengthy defense of the law in a federal lawsuit in which its constitutional validity is challenged.

Newsom and Villaraigosa, potential rivals in next year's Democratic primary for governor, were both careful to avoid direct criticism of President Obama, who pledged during his campaign for the White House to repeal the marriage law.

"I'm concerned about some of the arguments being made by the Justice Department," Villaraigosa said.

Gay rights groups were more blunt. Rea Carey, executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Action Fund, called the administration's defense of the law unacceptable.

"Unfortunately, the malicious and outrageous arguments and language used in the Justice Department's brief [are] only serving to inflame and malign the humanity of same-sex couples and our families," Carey said.

Representatives of neither the White House nor the Justice Department were immediately available for comment.

[Updated at 1:22 p.m.: White House spokesman Shin Inouye said the Justice Department, in submitting the brief, was following its normal practice of defending a law on the books in court.

"The President has said he wants to see a legislative repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act because it prevents LGBT couples from being granted equal rights and benefits," Inouye said of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender couples.

"However, until Congress passes legislation repealing the law, the administration will continue to defend the statute when it is challenged in the justice system."]

--Michael Finnegan reporting from West Hollywood

Related story: L.A. gay pride parade darkened by U.S. stance on marriage

Photo: Christina House / For The Times

Interactive map of milestones in the gay marriage battle and how state laws have changed since 2000

Comments

[Ken]

If there's anyone who has authority on marriage, it is two Mayors known for violating marriage vows.

Same-sex marriage is an oxymoron. It would be like having a GSA that promoted only materials from NARTH. Don't hijack words.

[Adam Vant]

"WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!" -- Gavin Newsom

[Sam]

1. Given the difficulty Newsome & Villaraigosa have had keeping their pants on, at least their attack on the DOMA is consistent with their personal ethics.

2. The Fed Gov't defended DOMA because a) it is the law and b) the DOJ believes in upholding the law whether it is politically correct to do so or not. That unlike the CA AG, Jerry Brown, who picks and chooses which laws he wants to support based on his personal preference.

[Kevin]

There is other better things for obama to worry about like our failing economy. I am a college student fearing that when I graduate there may not even be a job for me to get. People are wasting too much time and energy on this. The people voted, and we are democracy, not a communist nation.

[Robert]

The rights of minorities are NOT secured by the tyranny of the majority. The whole point of the court system is to ensure FAIR and EQUAL treatment of everyone.

Should slavery be legal just because the South voted for it? Popular sovereignty, after all...

[James]

The two mayors that shows no respect for any laws or vows. Are simply representing their true colors.

They both vowed to protect the interest of Americans, both dont.

Both took an oath to uphold the law, they dont

Both have established sanctuary cities, both harbor gang members that may be here illegally, both have divorced in controversy.

Both show a lack of ethics, both are engaged in political games, trying to set themselves up for what they think will be an easy victory as Governor. Playing to what ever crowd they think will keep them in whatever power they think they have.

But both forget that history will determine the legacy off the character, not the words. If they are remembered at all. Which I doubt they will.

The great ones always landed on the side of democracy which reflects the majority concept of government. Not manipulating the board to keep you in office.

[Joe]

I think this is going to end up being in front of the supreme court. People voted against gays having rights to marry. People voted against integration of schools. People voted against interracial marriages. People voted against blacks having the ability to vote or own land. It seems the only real progress comes from the supreme court in this country.

[Jake]

All of you Gay and Lesbian Obama worshippers gave him all your votes, your money, your time , your energy, your bumpers for his stickers and your hope. He stole your hope, lied to you and intends on giving you nothing back. Deal with it people. You've been had!! It is interesting to see that our new black President, and his new Black Attorney General only intend on respecting and enforcing civil rights for their own black people and no one else. The legendary homophobia in the Black America is alive and well. What hypocrites they are!

[derrick]

"Same-sex marriage is an oxymoron. It would be like having a GSA that promoted only materials from NARTH. Don't hijack words."

Ken,
Idiot-savant would be an oxymoron.Same sex marriage is not.Beleive me your are not the savant part but the other part of the oxymoron i just mentioned.Get my drift?I love preachers who dont know what they are talking about and too lazy to pick up a dictionary or thesaurus..

[Civil]

Obama and Villaraigosa should not fight for gay marriage in california. The voters here have spoken more than once against this. Why should a smaller group of people whine and whine and be allowed to get their way? Our elected officials should enforce the laws.

[RickinLA]

Defending laws already on the books???? What a load of crap! President Obama has lied to our community and it's high time we recognized we have been had. Obama has no intention of helping the gay community and never has. Believe me, I am kicking my own butt because I was fool enough to buy into his "hope" mendacity and now he has stolen our hope too. Will people in this country never tire of hatred?

[RickinLA]

Oh BTW....Ken...you are a fool and a jerk!

[Rocky Landing]

The notion that the rights of a section of out society hinges on the dictionary definition of a single word is ludicrous. Let's pass civil union legislation (which would get broad support) that guarantees all the same rights of marriage (different but equal, not separate but equal) and be done with it.

And while we're at it, let's give the rainbow back to our children.

[John M]

Kevin, take a civics lesson. The "people" did not vote on DOMA, the US Congress did. The people voted on Prop HATE. And if you were gay or lesbian in a committed relationship, and DOMA prevented your partner from getting 1,100 federal benefits, including your working partner's health and social security benefits, you too would be outraged by the Obama administration's vigorous defense of DOMA. I guess when you already have equal access to every federal marriage benefit, you could care less that about 10 percent of the population that does not, based simply on who they are and how they were born.

Bravo Newsom and Villaraigosa! Hope one off them challenges do nothing Obama in 2012 in the democratic primary.

[rj]

Newsome, Villaraigosa, Pelosi, Feinstien an boxer must GO.
VOTE THEM INTO OBLIVION!

[Jeff]

Just another day in the spotlight for both Mayors to promote their agendas. They weren't there to help gay marriage.

[Kyle Ballard]

You must always remember of this nation: It is of the minority, by the minority, and for the minority. They even invented the word POPULIST as a derogatory of the MAJORITY. Then when the majority seeks to rule they overturn it either de facto or dejure depending on what it takes. What is needed is a whole new constitution based on majority rule instead of the opposite. Kyle

[Daniel H]

Marriage is not a right, it's a privilege recognized by the government, much like a driver's license. If gays want marriage they have to convince the people, not run to judges to enact their agenda. Remember, if you can find a judge to give "you" something, then I can find a judge to take it back. Liberals, stop hiding behind courts and talk to the people. You'd be surprised how reasonable they really are.

[Pete the Fed]

The US Congress is an elected body of representatives and as such, their votes represent the people. Just as Californians voted twice to limit marriage between a man and a woman, this is democracy at work. We are a democratic country, not a socialist country.

[Jeff]

The Obama DOJ argues that the federal DOMA preserves "neutrality" in this "volatile" area of marriage equality for gays and lesbians.

This is nonsense.

The U.S. Constitution guarantees equal protection for everyone, including gays and lesbians. The DOJ should be defending the Constitution, not the DOMA.

Obama abandoned gays and lesbians when he crawled into bed with Rev. Rick Warren at the inauguration.

The only thing the Obama Administration understands is pressure. Remember how quickly they abandoned their idea of moving Guantanamo prisoners to prisons in the US.

If they are not with us, they are against us.

Remember that.

[Michael]

I still do not understand the reasoning behind "gay marriage" in California. The No on Prop 8 supporters simply did not make their case – it makes no sense to me. There are too many important unanswered questions that are the size of elephants in a room.

One of the more interesting truths about so-called "gay marriage" is the fact that gays actually don't marry all that much where it is legal. Only 10% of gays get married in such places as Massachusetts, Canada, Belgium, and Netherlands. There is low demand and low motivation among the gay community to actually marry. Therefore, the reason gays vociferously protest for the formality of "marriage" must go beyond their interest in the institution itself. For the record, two-thirds (66%) of all heterosexuals enter into marriage (married, separated, divorced, or widowed).

So far, in California, approximately 18,000 "same-sex marriages" occurred. That's about 36,000 gays out of an estimated community of over 1 million. Admittedly, California stats are tough to analyze given the quirky political climate the past year. You have pent-up demand but you also had a lot of uncertainty. Typically, where gay "marriage" is legal (see Massachusetts, Connecticut, etc.) you have an initial surge that drops off dramatically in subsequent years and levels off at 5% to 15% of the total gay population that marries. (note: I assume approximately 2% to 4% of the state's population would identify itself as gay.)

In other words, approximately 90% of gays choose (prefer) not to "marry". As a result, less than 0.5% of an entire population will require this "re-definition" of the historical, traditional institution of marriage. 99.5% of the population of a state/nation has no need for redefining marriage and "civil unions/partnerships" are perfectly acceptable to gays. Unless, of course, there's more at stake than actual "marriage" which would only imply some kind of “hidden agenda”.

So what's my point? Other than the obvious points above, the data suggests the following:

1) There is a substantive and profound natural difference between gay vs. straight sexual relationships. Hence, different terms to define the "relationship". There's something about opposite sexes having a much more natural desire to "marry" than "same-sex". Empirically, we know opposite sex unions are fundamentally different and functionally superior to the partnership of two identical genders. Obviously, opposite sex unions with the complexity of complimentary genders, husband/wife roles, ability to produce life, and the creation of father/mother relationships, sets them apart from same sex partnerships. It's comparing apples to oranges (i.e. "unequal"). Americans intuitively recognize that same-sex partnerships vs. opposite-sex unions are inherently separate and unequal.

2) The issue of "marriage" is not the real driving force behind No on Prop 8 supporters. It appears to be a red herring or possibly a "front" for some other "unspoken" issues. Maybe it's the "symbolism" of marriage, not the reality? If so, this is where gays lose credibility in their protests and appear disingenuous about their real motives. Also, the recent gay intimidation, harassment, and open persecution of Prop 8 supporters reveals their long term intentions to restrict the free exercise of religion and stifle free speech. Let's be honest here – who can deny there is a fundamental clash of opposing moral visions?

3) Elton John just makes way too much sense to me:
"We're not married. Let's get that right. We have a civil partnership. What is wrong with No on Proposition 8 is that they went for marriage. Marriage is going to put a lot of people off, the word marriage."
"I don't want to be married. I'm very happy with a civil partnership. If gay people want to get married, or get together, they should have a civil partnership," John says. "The word 'marriage,' I think, puts a lot of people off.
"You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil partnerships."

Essentially, there is no harm and no injury to gays while defining marriage as a union between a husband and wife. Elton John apparently lives a happy and free life. He certainly doesn't play the victim card. And there's no comparison to what the blacks suffered in America.

By the way, is Elton John a hate-filled homophobic bigot?

4) Gays are insecure about their own morality. Let's assume I'm an atheist and I think morality is in your own head. Then it's your guilt-trip not mine. There is no moral or value judgment being placed on a civil union vs. marriage. It's a definitional issue. Heck, for all I know, maybe civil unions are more righteous - who really cares? The gay community comes across as very insecure about their own morality. Perhaps this issue in the minds of gays is all about “moral equality” not marriage equality? If so, then the gays vs. religious are both engaging in the same moral play (i.e. defining foundational values). Hypothetically speaking, as an atheist, I find this debate silly and I find gay activists far more concerned about pushing their own moral agenda than they are willing to admit (i.e. transgenderism, alternative family constructs, sexual adventurism, etc.).

5) Finally, will the supporters of No on Prop 8 please describe the harm and injury gays suffer because I label the gay partnership a "civil union"? Again, what is the harm to gays because I hold to the historical definition of marriage as the union of husband and wife? Please provide specifics and examples of your injuries – make your case – how are gays injured? So far, the silence has been deafening.

The advocacy for "gay marriage" appears to be mostly a self-image issue for gays (i.e. psychic pain, deep insecurities, inferiority complex, etc.). It certainly isn't about the loss of housing, education, employment, opportunity, health, integration, relationships, love, and sex. There's just no observable lack of freedom and opportunity for the gay community. Please spare me the comparisons to the plight of African-Americans. About the best one can do is compare gays to the plight of other self-identified minorities such as atheists, bisexuals, communists, nudists, Jehovah Witnesses, vegans, Muslims, transvestites, polygamists, etc. who feel they are misunderstood by the majority.

Are we obligated to redefine our institutions only to accommodate everyone's self-image, emotional issues, morality, and eccentricities for the sake of inclusion? Is that even remotely possible? Where do you draw the line on inclusion? And who sets the boundaries? What foundational values unite us? Where do our inalienable rights come from – society or our Creator? Either way, doesn't the Prop 8 victory only confirm that society, history, and religion are all in agreement as to the definition of marriage?

Bottom line: Gay marriage is on the wrong side of history, irrational, unnecessary, and will never be embraced as a legitimate institution in society. Gay marriage will only introduce extraordinary confusion into our culture. Though it may be autocratically coerced (i.e. via court system edicts), gay marriage will never be truly accepted in the hearts and minds of a civilization without sound reasoning and the underpinnings of great moral wisdom. Try as they may, gay marriage will never achieve the same consensual acceptance as that which exists for ethnic and racial civil liberties – there’s just no comparison.

[Kim]

I am so tired of these idiots trying to play sides only to gain a victory as governor. Villaraigosa, can not even handle his affairs with the City of Los Angeles. Now he thinks the resididents of LA will vote for him if he runs for governor.

You must be kidding me, LA workers after having to take furlough days will never, I repeat, never vote for such a crook, ever.

Wake up people, they are only playing you to win a victory.

And as far as the president is concerned, why is everyone involving the president, it was California votes who voted?

[Alex]

Theese two men commtted adultery. Their opinion of what marriage is, by two men who both have no respect for their own marriages is irrelevant.

A marriage is between one man and one woman.

[no sanctuary]

Off topic, but these two are the Sanctuary City mayor twins, so I like seeing them in the same photo ops, Villaribozo with his goofy idiot grin and Newsom with his blank 'I'd rather be banging my best friend/chief aide's wife' stare.

Both mayors Bozo and Newsom have blood on their hands for allowing known illegal alien gang criminals to operate openly on the streets. But let's vote one of them Guv so we can have illegal alien gangs operating hassle free all over the State.

[Ken]

Calling me names in no way makes your case that we are obligated to neuter state marriage licensing. We are not, so you simply make emotional appeals and call names.

Follow my link for some actual logic.

[Mark]

Another gay-themed story, and all of the haters come out, once again. They know that most of society is not anti-gay, so the internet serves as a safe harbor for them to express their views.

Whether you accept same-sex marriage or not, there's more integration of homosexuality in our culture than ever before, and that's a good thing for society overall. People are more comfortable exploring who they are and acknowledging their desires. I can't see anything bad about that.

[Gary SF]

Just as presidents Reagan, Bush the 1st, Clinton and Bush the 2nd all chose not to defend all laws before the Supreme Court and other venues, Obama did not have to choose to defend DOMA in the Supreme Court.

The Obama administration has already backed away from defending a law: The one prohibiting the display of marijuana policy reform ads in public transit systems.

It's worse - the last I heard, they are choosing not to enforce the laws about torture.

But this 'fierce advocate' for the LGBT community chooses to defend a law that many believe is unconstitutional - Obama's law professor among them. And the defense itself is despicable.

In the meantime, he has done NOTHING for the LGBT community, except backtrack from his campaign promises.

Not One Nickel for Obama and the Democrats until they start working on LGBT civil rights issues. NADA.

[Jason]

As a Democrat, who happenes to be gay, I actually voted for McCain; not on account of all of his postitions, but on account of his honesty and his experience. Obama sounded too much like someone who was trying to win the "gay vote." I would rather have someone in office that I feel can trust rather than someone who says "trust me" and turns his back on you once he's elected.

[Ross]

The people of CA have spoken against same sex marriage.
The black community and Latino community voted for PROP 8. Why don't you take your perverted parade to Compton or Hawthorne Blvd. You're like a whining 4 yr old that doesn't get her way. The request you are making is over the top for mainstream America. You have domestic rights that equal the rights of married people. But now it comes out you want the health insurance of your partner you want the Soc Sec benefits and money of your partner you want you want you want.
Main stream America does not trust the LGBT.

[Wordcutter]

Lets look at this as just facts. One fact is, no matter how much you scream, yell,curse, belittle or deny it, homosexuality is not normal. Just because homosexuals claim to be normal as do drunks, gamblers, drug addicts, co-dependents, and other forms of un-acceptable behavior do not make it so. If a young woman looks into a mirror and says she if fat and starves herself to death, we say she has mental and emotional issues. If a man looks at himself and says I am a woman, we are to applaud and say how brave he is? Lets be honest, the gay and lesbian culture is one of lies and deception that hinges on all of society seeing the "emperors new cloths". They are no different than the alcoholic or drug addict, they need our sympathy and support, not being told how normal they are.

[duxbellorum]

A picture of 2 of the biggest, brain-dead pols in the state. Can anyone else see the slime oozing off them? I just get the heebie-jeebies.

I am SO TIRED of this perpetual whining over Prop. 8 - it's like the 3 year-old begging mom over and over for some junk food. No means NO - what part of that do you not understand?

Go back, retool your demands, change your language (I, personally, would grudgingly accept civil commitments with attendant civil rights; just don't ask me to change my theology to fit your views), and try to get a dialogue going, instead of divisive haranguing. NOBODY listens to a scold.

[m v]

god help us if this two politicians become governor
i for one will move out of california to arizona or florida or texas i was born in california i can not for see my self see a state that i have work all my life what i have see in the pass 10 years this crooka and liars what they done to california i am a liberal but not this kind of liberal this politicians are crooks to the bone

[Leslie]

duxbell: Don't ask me to change my theology to fit your views, either.

The mayors look to pull off another "Obama-like" appeal for votes and money, then...

The game of run to the courts, run to the legislature, see if I sign a bill, run to people...

No one with principle is left standing, just pointing to another forum. Like Obama's DOJ spokesperson: "Just doin' my job." "Sorry we can't help you now." "Vote for us next time." "Keep electing us, we'll get this right eventually."

[eneg]

prop 8 supporter won isn't it?
whats the issue?
the two mayors are just trying to get some vote from LGBT.
they should realized that they are being used by them.

[BillG]

This weekend, the LGBT community celebrated the 40th anniversary of the Stonewall riots in New York that sparked the fight for equality for LGBT Americans. 40 years ago, closets were where gay people lived; now they are just for clothes. If you had told someone 40 years ago that the main issue would be same sex marriage, and that the LAPD and the mayors of both LA and SF would be riding in and being cheered in the parade, they'd have thought you must be from an alternate universe. That gay marriage will eventually be won is unquestionable, because it is only fair and is the right thing to do. Theology has nothing to do with it, no one is asking any religious body for anything. All we are asking is for is a totally secular civil matter, a matter only of State, not of Church.

[Mark]

The Justice Department should withdraw that brief.

[David]

As for my family and I, We will NEVER again vote for viragosa.

[Mike]

The first few comments are like a gaggle of dimwits jumped in line! This one:
"I, personally, would grudgingly accept civil commitments with attendant civil rights; just don't ask me to change my theology to fit your views" ...as apposed to someone having to adjust their lives to fit your personal view of theology? Yeah right.

Once again a group of voices that have no courage, character, honesty or intelligence. A group that we will never see sacrificing for there own ideas, becouse they'd picked them the same way they pick their food at a buffet line. If they had rolled out on a Toyota assembly line instead of being born, quality control would have tossed them in the scrap heap.

Prop 8 was un-American, like most evangelicals that supported it and DOMA is a joke especially if you watched "Who wants to marry a millionaire"

Anyone who thinks you can subvert a minority and have that be the end of it is an idiot.

[Sergio]

All the Gay, Lesbian, Bi-sexuals, Tri-sexuals, etc.,want is for any person to marry any other person. So why not take this argument to its next logical step and let: 1st cousins marry, children marry adults, children marry children, and while we're at it lets allow peligamy. Why isn't this community speaking up for those that want to practice this type life style? Because even they know that their must be limits in society. Without limits we wouldn't have laws, rules, or even a foundation, we'd have anarchy. Marriage is between a man and a woman, period. We can not, and will not, live in a society that believes if it feels good it can't be wrong. Homosexual "marriage" is wrong, period.

[Kate]

Those two chumps need to leave this state post haste!!

I'm am SICK and TIRED of the GAY agenda being forced down our throats!!

The people have spoken by way of voting FOR Proposition 8.....
honor the law NOW!!

[Weeza]

Wordcutter: homosexuality is not normal.

Sorry to stereotype, but I'll have to assume that you're a Bible-wielding GED-awarded southerner born from incest.

Yes, it sounds very mean and hateful, but only someone that has been biologically corrupted of below-average intelligence can claim that homosexuality is not normal when it occurs in over 1500 species that exist on this planet.

I mean, seriously... 1500 animals and yet you say it's not normal.

Please never take any medicine ever again, never visit hospital, never seek the help of modern science because how hypocritical is it to believe that Science can tell you what can make you better, but when it tells you homosexuality is normal, you turn a blind, ignorant eye to it?

[Connor]

Freedom of Religion, I wholeheartedly agree with that as well as
Freedom from Religious Tyranny. ~_~

[phantom71]

The Mayor if Los Angeles is confused. How come he has time to campaign for gay pride but rarely, if ever, campaigns for immigration reform? Let Newsom handle Northern CA and let the Mayor of Los Angeles handle the voters of LA that entrusted the mantle of Immigration to him. We are now, all of us, starting to say that we were misled into thinking Tony was the man we thought he would be. We wanted to believe, so hard that we were blinded by our own hope that we i LA would see a better day. The Mayor of LA has simply lost his way. We are all coming to the sad realization that we all fell for with the "image" of Villaraigosa and not the character of the man. People Magazine has has image down, the rest of us, the parents, the schools, the labor force, got thrown the leftovers.

[Wordcutter]

Dear deluded Weeza. Cancer happens in every species and is considered a normal fact of life as do hundreds of other birth defects. Are they desirable, of course not. Your need to hurl slurs about someone without dealing with the real issue shows who is lacking in basic mental abilities. If you use the word normal in its broadest stroke then yes homosexuality is normal. But so is Downs Syndrome, normal as it affects every race on the planet. Yet is is classified as a birth defect as are hundreds of others. How do you deal with the issue of anorexia nervosa/belimua? How different are these women than a gay man or woman? What is the difference in their mental pictures and why does the gay community feel that these women are in need of mental health and they are not? Calm yourself and address that issue, and if you cant then perhaps you need to look a little closer at the party line.

[Wordcutter]

Weeza and the gang.. Did you hear one mention in my post about the Bible, religion, society, right or wrong? Did you hear me say that the gay community somehow is immoral or lacking in social standing? No. Please put aside your social agenda and look at the issue here, stop denying the reality of what you are saying and look deep into what you know is right. There is something wrong with you and like any substance abuser or gambler or abuser, until you do the whole earth is wrong and you are the only one who knows the truth. Let society help you, let society give you the support you need, but until you admit you have a problem, you will get nothing but heartache and grief.

[anghiari]

Both Newsom and Villaraigosa are opportunists of the worst kind. Both came to gay advocacy late and both are going to milk (sorry Harvey) it for all is worth. Neither of these guys were ever in the forefront of the Gay Movement. Where is Willie Brown. Brown wrote and got enacted into law the "Consenting Adults Act" in the early 70's which made same sex relationships legal. Both of these Mayors have lousy ethics. Newsom slept with his campaign managers wife and Villaraigosa slept with every female but his wife. Both have been humiliated publicly for their lack of personal ethics.
Both want to run for Governor. I have often wondered why the Gay community has so few national spokespersons of color. They demonize the Latino and black community as being homophobic, yet the racie issues within the Gay community are far from being resolved in an equitable way. No one challenges the Gay community on their position affiirmative action, equal work for equal pay, fair employment and housing. Where were gays on the whole internment issue or the current immigration issues. Do gays advocate for anybody else's civil rights???? when and where???

I find this demand on the President at this point in time ill thought out. And, please don't one person say if this was black folks...get out a history book and read how long it took to be even considered human much less obtain equal rights.

[Kelvin]

I'm a christian straight man with a wife and 4 kids. I do support Gay rights as well as marriage. I am troubled with how impatient that Gay community is with Obama and his policies. You have to realize how much the president has on his plate just six months in. Bushco him with a mess to clean up with Iraq, Afghanistan, the economy etc. DOMA and DADT are not just not major issues right now. I'm sure that he'll get on those once he get's the economy stabilized and Health care fixed. And I do agree that he needs to address the LGBT community soon to hear your concerns. He should stress patience from the Gay community then. I have no doubt that he'll keep his promise. It's just going to take time.

[MSierra, SF]

Don't be FOOLED
Gavin Newsom is a cheap opportunist
He had no interest in gay rights prior to the marriiage issue
He's just trying to ride it to the Governor's Mansion

Newsom is an incompetent opportunist who has accomplished NOTHING for San Francisco

He put his best friend's wife on the SF payroll until he was done bonking her
Then he got her disability payments from the city
His 'Best Friend's wife' !!

Just say no to Gavin

Jerry Brown is looking better and better

[Rocky]

Next time, don't let your vote be taken for granted. There is always the Green Party (left of center) and the Libertarian Party (right of center). If you want equal rights now, move to Canada. More than six decades after the Holocaust, gay Jews have more civil rights in Germany than they do in the US. Obama and his Justice Department ought to be ashamed of themselves.

[shadow_man]

Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don't choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. If you can, sorry, but you are not heterosexual, you are bi-sexual. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.

http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/03/differential-brain-activation.pdf
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html
Gay, Straight Men's Brain Responses Differ
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155990,00.html
http://www.livescience.com/health/060224_gay_genes.html
http://www.springerlink.com/content/w27453600k586276/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2008/06/16/172/

There is overwhelming scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. Sexual orientation is generally a biological trait that is determined pre-natally, although there is no one certain thing that explains all of the cases. "Nurture" may have some effect, but for the most part it is biological.

And it should also be noted that:
"It is worth noting that many medical and scientific organisations do believe it is impossible to change a person's sexual orientation and this is displayed in a statement by American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association."

[sfsoma]

Gavin Newsom should focus on cleaning up the mess he has created in San Francisco and leave the running of the country to adults. San Francisco is falling apart and he is all over the country and state mugging for the TV cameras and collecting campaign contributions. Please, Please CA voters read our SF Civil Grand Jury report on Newsom's performance measures, accountability, and transparency before you support, give campaign contributions or God forbid, vote for Mayor Newsom:

http://www.sfgov.org/site/uploadedfiles/courts/divisions/Civil_Grand_Jury/Z1-GJ_Rept_Performance_%20Measurement__April%208_.pdf

[Wordcutter]

You are correct, in most cases it is NOT a choice, but neither is Downs or alcoholism or Muscular dystrophy or Turner syndrome or hundreds of others listed by the March of Dimes. What about anorexia nervosa/belimua is it a choice? Tell me how their body perception is different from a gay man or woman? Would you encourage them to accept who they are and kill themselves in doing it? No, you as a responsible person suggest they receive help. Do they think they are normal, of course they do and reject all of your help and advise. How is this different from the body and emotional issues voiced by gays? If you can answer that one then we have a place where most rational people would agree.

[Mike]

Wordcutter... You talk in circles' that is the first clue you are religious or the amoral product of religion. Cancer is absolutely a normal condition in humans so is Downs Syndrome, left-handedness, blue eyes, red hair... That's not what people mean when they say homosexuality is "normal" ...but you knew that, another clue that you are religious or the amoral product of religion. Have you tried banning left-handed or Downs people from getting married lately? Your types "agenda," to a lot of us, has been clear for years and now the main stream is seeing you for the ilk you really are.

[chupacabra report]

Does anyone not realize that everything is a political move for this guy. He has no soul he will do whatever it is to get votes just as he did after his middle east speech he used buchenwald camp to get back the Jewish vote, MY VOTE. It was disgusting and one of my most notable fellow jews fell for it as did most people around me. The Gay community has been duped too but hopefully they wont stand for whatever he does to try to win them back.....his missteps are becoming more egregious by the day
http://chupacabrareport.blogspot.com/

[Mark B]

It's one thing to say that President Obama is waiting for Congress to repeal DOMA it's another for him to actively lobby Congress to do so, which he has not done. So does he really want it repealed or does his mouth pieces throw it out there hoping nobody hears them?

[Shadow_Man]

Wordcutter: There's a problem with your logic. All those other things you mentioned are diseases. Homosexuality is not a disease, it is a sexual orientation, and if you think sexual orientation is a disease, then i guess we're all diseases by your logic. Also, those things you mentioned are harmful, whereas homosexuality is not harmful in anyway. Also, just because something is not in the "norm" or "majority" (blue-eyed people, left handed people, blacks in America) doesn't mean it's wrong. Try again :)

[fern]

The arguments against same sex marriage are religious and based on the religious morals taught to us whether we liked it or not. I had to be a Roman Catholic before I became an atheist, nobody asked me anything I had to be baptized. Take the gossip column (scriptures) away from the Christians and they're out of arguments. The worst year in history is AD 325 when the Christians took power and 175 years later the Roman emperor became the bishop of Rome who later became the pope. Good luck to the Christians State of California they can start dealing and learn some tricks from the Islamic state of Iran. Religious people and politicians make sick.

[EuroRant]

"It's wrong to have millions of Americans living as SECOND-CLASS CITIZENS in this nation. And I ASK FOR YOUR SUPPORT IN THIS ELECTION so that together we can bring about real change for all LGBT Americans.
I WILL NEVER COMPROMISE ON MY COMMITMENT TO EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL LGBT AMERICANS. As your President, I WILL USE THE BULLY PULPIT to urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality in their family and adoption laws.
I support the complete repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA). Federal law should not discriminate in any way against gay and lesbian couples, which is precisely what DOMA does. Americans are YEARNING FOR LEADERSHIP that can empower us to reach for what we know is possible.
I believe that we can achieve the goal of full equality for the millions of LGBT people in this country. To do that, WE NEED LEADERSHIP that can appeal to the best parts of the human spirit. JOIN WITH ME, AND I WILL PROVIDE THAT LEADERSHIP. Together, we will achieve real equality for all Americans, gay and straight alike." -- Barack Obama (February 2008)

OK President Obama, I held up my end of the bargain and voted for you on this one single statement and promise ... the silence from the White House has become defeafening.

"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

[Wordcutter]

Shadow_Man,
I see you too will not answer a simple question, how is the young woman with anorexia nervosa/belimua different than a gay man or woman? Please, please tell me how they are different. All of them look at themselves and see something no one else does. They all believe to there very souls there is nothing wrong with them. would you encourage the young woman to continue on in her brave heroic quest to defend her self image, or would you try to persuade her to seek help? Please tell me the difference between yourself and that young woman.

[jaime47]

Dear Michael,

Your comment seems so “reasoned”, so “logical”. When using words like “therefore”, it is essential that the conclusion be supported by the arguments. So let’s take a look.

Your suggestion that only 10% of gays marry where it is legal is off the mark. In the Netherlands, for example, the percentage of gay marriages is around 2% of the TOTAL number of marriages performed. If we assume a gay population of 3%, then gays are getting married at a rate identical to that of straights (based on your data that two-thirds of straights marry).

So, only two percent of the American population has a need for a change to the marriage laws. It sounds so trivial, doesn’t it? So let’s outlaw guns used for hunting, since the percentage of hunters in America has dwindled from 7.4 down to 4.1 in only 25 years. Soon, their numbers will be down to TWO PERCENT ! Those gun-owning hunters are certainly vociferous about defending their right to have firearms -- they must have some kind of “HIDDEN AGENDA” !!

Each of your arguments marked 1), 2), etc, are nothing more than opinion and conjecture (somewhat paranoid, at that) disguised as reason.

1) “There’s something about opposite sexes having a much more natural desire to marry …….” -- based on incorrect ‘facts’.

“Americans intuitively recognize that same-sex unions vis-à-vis opposite sex unions are inherently unequal” -- one man’s opinion.

2) “The issue of marriage is not the real driving force ……” -- Paranoia strikes deep, dude.

3) EJ is addressing the semantics, and recognizing that many straights (I’m one, by the way) claim a certain exclusivity when it comes to the word “marriage”., meaning real change will require defeat of a tyrannical majority. He appears willing to “go along to get along”. He’s free to make that choice. The reality, unfortunately, is that many states severely limit the civil rights of gay partners.

4) “Gays are insecure about their own morality”. -- WTF?

5) “Will the No on Prop 8 advocates describe the harm to gays because their social contract is called a ‘civil union’”? -- We just might agree on this one. Straights with no intention of producing children can be married in government offices. So can atheists.. It would appear that neither procreation nor belief in (a) god are prerequisites for the government to sanction a marriage, or civil union, or a social contract, or whatever you want to call it. In fact, our constitution bars discrimination on those grounds. Not long ago, mixed-race couples could be barred from entering into a marriage contract. Fortunately, that ugly remnant of another time is behind us.

Government offices perform a strictly legal civil procedure, nothing more. Churches also perform marriages, but they are not legal unless recorded by the government. A church is free to decide which unions it will bless, but our government, as dictated by the constitutional separation of church and state, does not (should not) have that choice. Because of wide discrepancies from state to state regarding what rights are granted in a civil union contract, there is a clear need for a federal law that provides absolute equality under the law in all fifty states for consenting adults who wish to “marry”, or “unite”, “tie the knot”, or whatever you want to call it.

[Jaxon]

Obama defends DOMA and in doing so supports the dogma that homosexuality is comparable to incest. Mr. Obama you are a true defender of equality. Sigh.

[jdubs1211]

Wordcutter

Even though your comments were not directed towards me, I feel the need to point out how ridiculous your analogy is.

1.)A female with an eating disorder has a psychological disorder that threatens her physical health and well-being.

2.) A homosexual does not suffer from a psychological disorder that threatens his/her physical health and well-being.(Provided he/she has safe sex but that rule applies to us heterosexuals as wel.)

That IS how they are different!l

[Calvin]

"Congress SHALL MAKE NO LAW...establishing religion." One man plus one woman equals marriage is a religious concept shared by a majority of people. All laws under the purview of the United States Constitution are required to be religiously neutral and gender non-specific. Whether you are a born again christian fundamentalist or a wild-eyed left wing communist isn't the issue. The issue is are you an American or not? If you think it is okay for the US government to grant rights to a majority of the people, then withhold those same rights from a minority of the people, then you are not an American. If you think your fundamental rights are subject to a plebiscite, then you are not an American. Why? Because the US Constitution says so, that's why. Obama would be well advised to remember that rights deferred are rights denied.

[Shadow_Man]

Wordcutter: Lol are you serious? Anorexia nervosa/belimua is a eating disorder that's harmful while homosexuality is a sexual orientation dealing with sexual attraction that's not harmful.

"Please tell me the difference between yourself and that young woman."

Easy, i'm a man, she's a women. Got any other questions to attempt to cover up your bigotry? =)