Huntington Beach rejects red-light cameras

At a time when red-light cameras are proliferating across Southern California, Huntington Beach is bucking the trend.

The cameras have become a controversial part of the streetscape in recent years, taking photos of drivers who run through red lights and sending them tickets. Backers argue the cameras improve safety and bring cities needed revenues.

But Surf City’s police chief, Ken Small, isn’t so sure.

He told the Huntington Beach City Council that adding cameras to intersections around the city could increase traffic accidents rather than prevent them. Some business leaders in town are also speaking out against the traffic cameras, including some car dealers who fear the cameras might drive customers away.

 “It just didn’t make any sense,” said Small, whose department spent several months studying the issue.

One such intersection under consideration was Talbert Avenue and Beach Boulevard, where 19 motorists had run a red light, but only two red light accidents had occurred when looking at the intersection's history.

“When we started looking, a lot of [the violators] were people we normally don’t give tickets to,” Small said, adding that some of the violations included motorists who failed to make complete stops before making a right turn.

The Huntington Police Department in conjunction with Redflex Traffic Systems began a study in March on the affect of installing cameras at 18 of the proposed 20 intersections. At least nine of those were along the highly traveled Beach Boulevard, a street from which several businesses and car dealerships often draw customers.

Small said revenue from the violations would also not cover the monthly cost of maintaining a $6,000 camera. Some intersections that would require four cameras would cost the city $24,000 a month to maintain the cameras.

Others in Huntington Beach also oppose the installation of cameras.

“I call them scam-ras” said Ocean View School Board President Norm Westwell. The cameras, he said, only “photograph the ending results of [an] accident.”

The City Council decided not to address the issue after the chief delivered his report.

-- Ruben Vives

RELATED

More on red-light cameras from Times staff writer Rich Connell's investigation:

 

How red light cameras work

VIDEO: Red light violators

Safety or revenue: A Times investigation

Photo: Los Angeles Times

Comments

[joe]

nice to know some cities have respect for our constitution! These cameras are nothing but a money making scam because the politicians are too afraid to say they need more money - so they get it with these cameras - where you have to prove you're innocent - they don't have to prove you're guilty!

[cometcollector]

Why is it so difficult to stop for the red light? I really don't have any sympathy for entitled scofflaws who blow through red lights and stop signs, putting dozens of people at risk, just so they can get to South Coast Plaza a little quicker. Don't do the crime if you can't pay the fine. It's just that easy.

[Larry]

The Constitution of the US says that we get to face our accuser.
You should demand your constitutional right to cross-examine the camera!

[joe]

problem is once you privatize public functions the private companies become scofflaws as bad as the people running the lights. Ever since we privatized prisons our prison population has increased 500% - we now imprison more people than China which has 3 times the population. It has everything to do with private prisons making political contributions to judges and politicians for more prison time . . . and WE end up paying for it. I don't believe americans are 3 times more criminal than the chinese. These cameras get used teh same way - where the company's profits are more important than traffic safety!

[Brian]

Studies show that red light enforcement cameras are not the best way to improve safety. They recommend these low- or no-cost alternatives: a) increasing the yellow-light time by a small amount; b) having an all-red interval to allow the intersection to clear; c) larger and brighter signal lights. If safety (and not revenue) is the primary concern, these steps should be taken first.

[Dean]

good for H.B. I don't go anywhere near cities (and their stores/shopping areas ) that have these stupid Red-Light cameras (ie. Culver City, Santa Clarita ). Let's be real, this isn't about 'safety' - it's about more fines/$$$ for the cities. It's all rigged up by the companies the make these devices; they are designed for maximum profit...

[jp las vegas]

these cameras are a clear violation of the 4th amendment under the Bill of Rights-the right to not be subjected to unwarranted search and seizure. thus they are clearly unconstitutional. the Supreme Court should make them illlegal. they don't prevent accidents they actually cause rear end collisions and fender benders from people stopping just in time to avoid them. they have been a horrible idea since their inception. also traffic ticket fines are way too high. why don't the police and the courts realize that we're in the Great Recession and that we need this to stop for a while?

[Dean]

to add to my last note, I saw a study article ( in the L.A. times ) that said that most of these violations registered by these camera devices get people for making right-turns w/o coming to a complete, dead stop - not what they are intended for ( they are to catch people who blow through red lights - which I'm all against ).

[Carol]

"Had ran" a red light? Can we have some proofreading, please!

----
Editor's note: Fixed. Thanks for pointing out our grammatical error.

[Jim]

There's lots of arguments for and against these cameras. Some people claim that there is an increase in rear-end accidents in the intersections where they are at...others claim they are inaccurate...and so on...Here's some solutions:

1. Don't mark the intersections where the cameras are. I believe this is done now and it may be mandatory. I don't see why it has to be that way. People should assume there is a camera in every intersection. We don't require police to notify the public that they are running radar in location x, do we?

2. Approach every light like it is about to turn yellow. That means if you are in a string of cars going 40 MPH down a road that has plenty of stop lights, you are asking for trouble.

3. It is IMPOSSIBLE to rear-end someone if you are a) not following to closely and b) paying attention.

4. It is impossible to run red lights if you are following # two.

5. Simple math can show you that passing or speeding through a red light will save less than 1 minute in travel time yet it increases exponentially the odds of someone getting killed or seriously injured.

6. Empower the police to write expensive tickets (like $500 for your first offense) and suspend your license on the second offense. Do that and cities can stick their thumbs in the face of these companies who are trying to gouge them. Not hard.

Bottom line: We need zero tolerance enforcement of the more serious and dangerous traffic infractions.

[Markus]

The chief is plumb loco. The scam here is 24K a month for four cameras, what with budget cuts saying no was an easy way to save the city money. As for the remark about the constitution? Show me where the articles of the US Constitution the section for "car rights"? A license to drive in this state is a privilege that people mistaken as rights.

[penguin]

Here the relevant text of the sixth amendment to the constitution:

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right...to be confronted with the witnesses against him..."

The issue here is it is not possible to be confronted with the witness against you if you are cited by a red light camera. Therefore one could argue that being cited by a red light camera is unconstitutional.

[Jason]

The HBPD doesn't enforce any traffic regulations with any consistency, as far as I can tell, so this is no surprise. They sure like to race around town with their lights and sirens, though -- three or four of them to pick up a shoplifter or question some homeless guy shuffling down the street.

They are the most useless law enforcement agency I've ever seen, though they do a good job of running the City Council.

[Henry]

Besides the prospect of having to give tickets to "people we normally don't give tickets to" in order to pay the rent for the cameras, what else was there about the cameras that Chief LIttle couldn't stomach? I suggest it could have been Snitch Tickets, the fake red light camera tickets sent out by some police departments to bluff the registered owner into identifying the actual driver of the car. (Snitch Tickets have not been filed with the court, so they don't say "Notice to Appear," don't have the court's address, and usually say, on the back, in small letters, "Do not contact the court about this notice." Since they have NOT been filed with the court, they have no legal weight whatsoever. You can ignore a Snitch Ticket. If in doubt, Google the term.)

Henry

[Henry]

In my previous submission ( a few minutes ago) I gave the Cheif's name as Little. It is Small.

Henry

[Awaite220]

Before you make a decision about whether you like or dislike these cameras, consider that their overwhelming success as revenue generators has led to the idea of speed cameras, and other such surveillance techniques meant to seperate you from your money, and all in the name of safety.

Frequently, it is assumed that law enforcement agencies are behind these cameras. While law enforcement generally administers the camera enforcement programs, remember it is the governmental bodies that decide whether to implement them or not.

Attached is an article, written by a police officer and found on a law enforcement website (www.lawofficer.com) that offers an interesting perspective from the point of view of a cop.

http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-articles/columns/Wasilewski/red_light_cameras.html

[Allen Baylis]

Bravo for the Huntington Beach City Council. They finally got something right!

These photo enforcement programs amount to government hiring a company to conduct surveillance and then act as a paid informant. The evidence they produce is technically not admissible in court, although many judges ignore that and admit it anyway.

Consider also that when the registered owner is not the driver, the police go ahead and file the criminal charges against a person that they know or should know is innocent (if they bother to check). This is clearly a violation of the non-driving owner’s constitutional rights.

Statistically, the longer the light is red, the greater the risk of collision and the fewer people run the light. So even on straight through violations, the greatest number of people cited are those who pose the lowest risk.

[NO MORE S.D. GOING TO H.B.]

We just came back from a trip to Petco Park in San Diego. Between the combination of unmarked one way streets, bad signs, bad drivers, and the stupid red light cameras. We are grateful to come out of that maze alive!
We decided that is the last time we go to San Diego. Those red light cameras are not there for safety. They are there to make money, period.

[Gary Waller]

Good for you. Lets face it, like everything else government does, the stated purpose (which is usually benevolent sounding - i.e. feed the starving children, reduce traffic injuries) is almost never the real motivation behind creating some new "program" or implementing a new law. Lowered speed limits in the name of safety are an old ploy, just a way of producing revenue by creating a ridiculous low limit that is unrealistic and difficult to maintain - the common speed trap. These cameras are nothing more than a higher-tech version of the old gag with the motorcycle cop hiding behind the billboard. A cheap trick and nothing more than a revenue producing device. In some places they even sink as low as shortening yellow light times to trick drivers into running a red...dirty and low! Not living in such an enlightened communty, the best way I have found to keep their thieving hands out of my pockets is to know where the cameras are and avoid them entirely when possible. The simplest way is to use your auto GPS unit and program it with camera and sped trap data you can get at a site like http://www.gpscameradetector.com.