Big racial, ethnic divide remains in L.A. on gay marriage, Times Poll finds [Updated]

 

In the state’s continuing political battles over gay marriage, both sides are targeting Latino voters, and a new Los Angeles Times poll illustrates why. Overall, the poll showed, a substantial majority of voters in Los Angeles support the right of same-sex couples to legally marry, with 56% in favor and 37% opposed.

That finding closely tracked the results of November’s election in which Proposition 8, which limited marriage to unions of a man and a woman, won statewide but lost in the city of Los Angeles. But the poll also showed that within the city, views on the issue differed widely among racial and ethnic groups.

White voters were most emphatic in their support for same-sex marriage, with 68% supporting it and 27% opposing. African American voters were strongly against it, with 54% opposing same-sex marriage and 37% supporting it.

Opposition to gay marriage by African Americans was widely seen as a major factor contributing to the passage of Proposition 8. Latinos in the current poll were split, with 45% supporting same-sex marriage and 46% opposing.

Within the Latino population, there were additional divisions: women, the young and people with college educations offered more backing for gay marriage than men, older voters and those with fewer years of schooling. Since the passage of Proposition 8, political analysts have suggested that statewide support for same-sex marriage is only a matter of time, and the poll offered support for that idea.

Among Los Angeles voters, support for same-sex marriage grew consistently stronger as the age of respondents decreased.

Among those age 18-29, 66% said same-sex marriages should be recognized as valid, while 29% disagreed.

The percentage of support declined slightly with each increment of age; those age 50-64 supported gay marriage by a narrower 55%-39% margin. The only voters to oppose same-sex marriage in greater numbers than those who backed it were those older than 64. In that group, 43% supported legal gay marriages and 48% were opposed.

The Times Poll was conducted for The Times by Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research in conjunction with Public Opinion Strategies, both based in Washington, D.C. The poll questioned 1,500 registered voters in the city of Los Angeles from June 10-16. The margin of error is plus or minus 2.6 percentage points.

-- Cathleen Decker

Check Sunday's Los Angeles Times for full results of the new Times Poll on topics including Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa's political future, the city's budget deficit and a look ahead at next year's race for governor.

 Photo: L.A. Times

[Updated 1:42 p.m. An earlier version of the headline on this article said L.A. voters were divided along racial and ethnic lines on Proposition 8. The poll asked for opinions on same-sex marriage, not on the ballot initiative specifically.]

More coverage:

The Times answers reader questions about Prop. 8

Times Prop. 8 voting results map

Full coverage of Prop. 8 on L.A. Now

Times gay marriage interactive map

Comments

[markiejoe]

As I've always said, we just have to wait for the old narrow-minded bigots to all die off and then society can progress. But it never seems to happen. It's depressing.

[Jack Boan]

Since old people cannot reproduce and the purpose of marriage is to create a family with children I think we should vote to make marriage only between two people who can still reproduce and actually make a family.

[Steve]

notice both mayor antonio villagrosa and mayor galvin newson
(both possible running for gov) cheated on women and they are tell us what is right and wrong. What moral authority do they have to tell us what is right and wrong. Shouldn't they get their own house in order before they tell us the people how to run our houses!!

[Roy]

I find it odd that after years of being discriminated against, which continues to this day African-Americans amoungst others have the nerve to discriminate themselves. Being uneducated, like the article states is a huge factor, people who spend most of their time listening to a sermon or a preacher instead of reading and gaining information for themselves is the problem.

[Maddy Murray]

Ironic how those Los Angeles citizens most historically affected by discrimination and prejudice, African Americans, are now the standard bearers for legislation that is discriminatory and divisive in nature. I wonder how that would change if more gays and lesbians of color had the courage to "come out" to their mommas and aunties -- the strong women who are the backbone and conscience of the black community...

[Janice Gammil]

Why does the MSM (which is dying) continue time and again to racially divide America? They can't believe that Californians rejected Prop 8 out of personal beliefs. Nah, they have to find a RACIAL motive to it all. Time for MSM and the AP to roll over and die.

[AMovieM]

It is ironic. Before 1994 South Africa was condemned for apartheid. Our current constitution was drawn up under Nelson Mandela’s. A Xhosa who’s culture hates homosexuality. He ensured gay and lesbian rights are in the constitution. No law drafted or a corporate action can be taken that Deny gay people the same right as heterosexuals. Marriage, Adoption, Medical Cover, Pensions etc. cannot be denied to the spouse of a same-sex partner. Obama seems to have no inner principles to do the right thing when it comes to gays and lesbians. He sees and treats gays and Lesbians in the USA as just a nice way to raise money and be his lap dog to his electability. His promises are hallow. My advice to Gay and Lesbian American’s Obama is not interested in your rights. Time to start looking elsewhere to get basic rights, write Obama off as the man that will not advance your cause. Stop being the pawn of a man who has not kept any promises he has made.

[ccortezz]

I wonder how many latinos, asians are hip to marrying african-americans.

[Wayne Jackson]

Without Obama running, blacks won't show up, so the ban will be repealed.

Do the math.

[Another Jack]

Why do these studies always leave out religion? I'm dying to know what percentage of various denominations aren't complete parnoia fuled, pablum-fed, delusionists.

[Tim]

I will not vote for OBAMA again. He is a Rick Warren homophobe. Complete liar and no friend to gays.

He has flipped on us 100%

2012 no gay vote for Bigot Obama

[Sue]

Steve I agree why do we elect these people who can't run their own lives, let a alone a city or state. Now they want to lecture us about right and wrong. Throw them out of office today!! Let get someone in that can strenghten the family.

[Melaine Samson]

African Americans are just bitter that their marriages don't last.

[LBresident]

Maybe Aferican American don't support same sex marriage becuse they don't beleive in marrage at all. Look at their history of single parent households.

[onebombcutie]

Just want to say that there many people that appose gay marraige. For gay people to try and put the blame on African Americans for passing proposition 8 is wrong. We only make up 11.5% of the population in this whole city; White about 46% and Hispanics is about 41%. So even if a lot of us appose, it, we had very little impact on the passing of the bill. I feel that gay people are turning into a hate group, and the only way they can deal with their frustration is to lash out at the African Americans, because we are the smallest most vunerable,and most disenfranchised ethnic group in this whole city, and even in the whole country. I wish people would just leave us alone, stop picking on us. We are not to blame for your problems, and if you we're wondering, I have plenty of gay friends, but I still appose gay marraige. They respect my point of view. They don't get all ignorant on me. It has nothing to do with my religion and everything to do with genetics. We can't change the color of our skin, however, you can always change your sexual preference. We didn't burn churches when we wanted equal rights. We marched peacefully. We were jailed, lynched, treated like sub-humans for many years. So you can never compare your sexual preference with racial equality. It's out right disrespectful.

[Joe Cole]

Well I'm 23, white, earned my B.A. at one of the most liberal colleges in the nation, and I find that this poll is a load of bull. People unhappy with the result want to cry 14th amendment....well I stand with the Justice Department - Hey, what about adult, non-child bearing incest marriages?

I'd say the more educated someone is on the matter - college or no college - they wouldn't waste their time trying to analyze racial differences - as it doesn't amount to a can of beans.

How come I never get polled? These polls lack the kind of depth required to make any true conclusions. Of course black and latinos are going to be more supportive of Prop 8. Look at your religious polls - see how many white people in L.A. still go to church on Sunday? You can target them for a new prop - but you aren't going change timeless values in a matter of 2 years.

And when you look at the big picture - when the people really use their brains and interpret the constitution correctly, the numbers opposing Prop 8 will only drop - especially if articles like this suggest it's race and lack of education. If anything the large numbers of youth that are against Prop 8 correlate with their over exposure to thoughtless idealistic ultra-liberal values they obtain from their hack professors at expensive four year colleges that drive them into debt and rob them blind.

Do polls ever consider that?

[BLM]

Sounds like markiejoe is a young, narrow minded bigot himself...he calls this progress????

[DingTank]

Funny how the Times refuses to tie the real basis for the outcome to broken families, instead of racial lines.

Maybe because the real reason that the majority of people are against same sex marriage is because of their experience in single parent, single sex adult families, and not a religious one.

Keep spinning away fools, it is your children that will have to live with the pain.

[Roger Pariseau]

Folks might want to check NPR's Science Friday's (http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/200906194) Same-Sex Behavior in the Animal Kingdom. Seems more than 450 species have been observed acting out homosexually. It's a wonder what scientists can come up with when they actually leave their labs and desks and actually watch what's going on!

[Michelle S]

I agree with Jack Boan. There should be also an age limit to be eligible to get married since we do have an age minimum requirement.

[tornwordo]

As a born and raised Californian, I find it sad that I still cannot come back to me home with my legal Canadian spouse because he happens to be a man. I remember my fellow Californians as being better than that. I don't think white versus black is the issue. I think cold-heartedness is. I'd love to come back and be close to my family again. I hope and hope that it's only a matter of time. Help I'm stuck in the icebox that is Montreal!

[BLACKS & LATINOS ARE THE PROBLEM, RIGHT?]

when in doubt, just blame everything on black people ;) hence COINTELPRO (google it..). Really though, are black people really the reason this didnt get passed? come on.. really? LAtimes=propagana tool of the rich left elite. Since the begining of this country, blacks and latinos have always been the reason why everything is so-called wrong. Its sad to see 'some' comments from whites fall into that trap. There are a lot of black people in the gay community, those who oppose are from the babyboomer, church generation. They DO NOT represent ALL of US. So stop the IGNORANCE PLEASE!!!! THANKS.

[Jason]

Jack - The number of heterosexuals is still far greater so you don't have to worry about same-sex marriage contributing to human extinction. However, the World is getting a bit crowded, isn't it?

[Jim]

Polls done by the GLBT community support the notion that religion is a much better predictor than race on this issue. I, too, wish we would stop labeling people based on the color of their skin. We don't poll to see whether blondes or redheads are more likely to support marriage equality, after all.

[Peter]

I believe there is intentional failure to report the situation honestly by the MSM. The Proposition 8 controversy, properly understood, was actually limited to a fairly trivial issue: the right to use the word: "marriage". Gays have had the substantive right to form a recognized family unit for years in our state, unlike other states. Proposition 8 did not change that. Gay family units can be formed every day in California, and are formed every day. They just can't call it a "marriage"

[SFDR]

Wow - doesn't anyone remember that interracial marriage wasn't allowed that long ago? It's surprising that any minority wouldn't stand up for another minority! We really haven't come very far on the evlutionary scale.

[Yeah]

I agree with markiejoe. As soon as the "baby boomers" die, they will stop voting and the newer genration ( who can actually think for themselves and not relate EVERYTHING to religion) will let EQUALITY prevail... it just isn't fair. First, America oppressed blacks, then women, then browns (hispanics), and now they are finding someone new to oppress. It just isn't fair to them!!

[Dana]

Onebomb- you are a statistic. Learn how to spell. It's oppose. Ignorant people are opposed and you live to that standard. Black people did fight back. Learn your history. Don't pull the race card if you can't back it.

[Robert]

The prior comment is just outrageous. It just goes to show you that when a person is undereducated, they can make a comment like "sexual preference" is a "choice," when all scientific evidence is to the contrary. Of course, when one is uninformed, they will make comments without any type of logical basis at all, and will speak from pure unadulterated emotion, as though that is a sound basis for making public policy concerning individual rights. I'm sorry, but I don't respect someone who stands for bigotry and discrimination, as you obviously do. I'm happy to say that many of those you refer to who were involved in the civil rights movement don't agree with your position and do see discrimination against gays as pure discrimination.

[Billy]

Can we agree that bigotry extends all colors and creeds?

[deBeer]

markiejoe The reason that happens is as people get older they get wiser and know more about right and wrong. There is nothing stopping gays from getting married. They can marry the opposite sex today. For those who talk about discrimination, why do you want to discriminate against three people,getting married? Four? Five? Mother and son? Person with their dog? What you claim is good for heterosexuals is good for homosexuals, yet you do not want the same for others. Why is that? Your weak argument about not comparing oranges and apples doesn't make it as same sex marriage IS NOT the same in any way as marriage between a man and woman. You are hypocrites. At least be consistant

[Tom]

Ignorant African Americans like Homophobic Obama have done this. Newsflash we cant change sexual oreination.

Perhaps if they could keep a family together they would not be so angry.

No more Obama!

[PEDRO SANCHEZ]

Being Gay is prevalent in African American communities, except they choose to keep it in the closet; hence "Living on the down low".
Living on the down low has gotten so bad that Inglewood High school has posted posters addressing the issue. The poster displays a male African American holding his pregnant wife, and his male lover holding him. The poster also warns against the rise of HIV in African American communities.

I am straight, Hispanic, college educated and voted for NO on prop 8.

I guess polling does work.

[troy]

There aren't that many blacks in California, so no way Prop 8 is a black thing. If you guys have issues, you need to look towards the whites and Latinos. They have the numbers, and they have the votes. Stop blaming black people for all your issues.

[Dar]

Look people, Black people are EXTREMELY religious people. Religion is what got us thru slavery & segregation and many other things. I know it seems like a feeble excuse but most black people who vote are VERY religious types. More open minded YOUNG black people need to get out and vote. Dont blame black people Im sure a LARGE number of non black votes swayed the vote.Melaine Samson,Wayne Jackson ,& maddy Murray , those comments you made we're not necessary. They are VERY devisive and we have to do better than that. Welcome and unite people not divide.

[Jason Hayes]

The whole point of opposing gay marriage from the African American community is to keep that stuff on the down low, where it's best kept.

[Julia]

Onebombcutie - You said:

We can't change the color of our skin, however, you can always change your sexual preference.

1) So you are bi-sexual or gay, then? Personally, I am straight. I like men. I can't change my sexuality. I was born straight, just as gay people are born gay. If you think it is possible to change your sexuality, that means you can change your own sexuality. Newsflash: YOU'RE GAY... or at the least, BI.

2) Why should we respect your ignorant opinion? I'm calling it ignorant, not because I disagree with your opinions...but because you can't even spell. It's OPPOSE, not APPOSE. Before you spew your bigotry all over the internet, you should at least make sure that you aren't presenting yourself as an uneducated fool.

[Cassandra Washington]

onebombcutie wrote: "We marched peacefully." ... what? Please go Google .. "black civil rights riots"

We don't choose the color of our eyes, our hair or our skin, and neither do we choose our sexual orientation ... it is fact ... and the preachers who say it ain't so are preaching a lie. Let my people, gay and lesbian brothers and sisters, go ... and have their "dream."

[name]

The reason things don't "progress" is because progressives don't breed. The traditionalists do. The progressives deserve to see the direction of society go backward from their perspective, or at least stagnate, since they expect everyone else to create the next generation. "Oh, kids aren't for me. Oh, they're too expensive. Oh, the earth is too full."

Fortunately, the next generation will be mostly people from cultures that hate progressive values and breed like rabbits. The progressives simply like to commit cultural suicide. Feminism and Gay Rights = backfire. Haha.

[jamar]

A family is a mother and father and kids. Where did we get so confused. There really is a war against the family.

[Jeremy R]

I must say that I am dissappointed that black voters have voted against gay marriage. I really have no right to be dissappointed or impressed by any community at larger since in the end, we are all just individuals. In fact, I don't actively think of myself as a black person so much as a california liberal techy that happens to be black.

[carla]

I think the author is a poor journalist.
Makes up facts to fit his desired perspective.
Does he really think readers are that dumb?
If the majority who support gay marraige are younger than 26, very few would have a higher education. How does this guy define uneducated? I do not believe a special right should be carved out to make marraige available for people who's only claim to rights is their sexual preferences. Sexual preference is not a reason to give marraige rights. Civil unions, but not marraige has already been granted. Accept and move on.That is my opinion and I am not going to change. BTW I have a master's degree, does that count as educated? As younger people grow older they will get wiser.

[John Pecod]

For those Prop. 8 supporters enjoy this moment now because in the future you will be regarded as contributors to a shameful time in this state's history.

[onebombcutie]

Dana - you are ignorant and so what if misspelled oppose, that doesn't make me ignorant. I didn't say thay blacks didn't fight back during the civil rights movement, I said we didn't burn churches. We had to fight, but that's my point, we fought back because we were being bullied by American society.

Gay people started bullying us when prop. 8 passed. We never did anything to the gay community. We were not in the position to bully gays so there was no reason for them to target us. And so what if I used statistics, I didn't have to. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look around and see that there are more Mexicans, Asians and Whites than Blacks. I really didn't need statistics to make that point.

And to Robert, who is trying to say I am a bigot, I never said that I was opposed to gays having a civil union or their own personal life and being recognized as a family, I just simply don't feel like it should be called marraige. You can't pro-create together. Thats it and that's all.

Whats next, we should let people marry their pets? C'mon people. The line has to be drawn somewhere. It is simply not the same thing. You will never beable to have a biological child between you two unless it's cloned.
So until they legalize that, just be happy that from the beginning, you all had more rights than blacks.

If someone looks at you, they are not going to discriminate against you because you're gay, because that is a behavior.

However, some one can see me from 100 yards away and form opinions about me because I'm Black. Stop trying to compare the two. It's just not comparable. I'm sorry.

[carla]

Gays and their supporters come across as a lynch mob trying to push their agenda down people's throats.
Going after blacks, mormons, beauty queens, church goers, and anybody else who opposes their agenda. They are starting to look like devils on a rampage. I can't get the image of a gay pride parade I went to out of my head. I was never so repulsed in my life. Is this what gay people stand for? unbridled sexuali acts and lewdness that flaunts around on public streets? Clean up your image and maybe more people would have respect for your agenda.

[wil]

Haven't anyone of you been listening for the past 40 years? The black community is socially conservative. And they are aware of the quiet but real prejudice from the gay white community.

[James]

Its kind of sad that some would use this forum to spit their poisons. Being educated does not remove the potential that some educated people are simply fools in a cap and gown.

Gay lifestyles do exist in the black community, and that is a fact. But there is also a biblical undercurrent that specifically spotlights homosexual activity as an abomination. Blacks, like other nationalities that have a basic faith principal oppose gay marriage, and other relationships that are contrary to biblical principal, and that is also a fact.

Lets talk about the down low for a moment, every nationality, culture and creed, have a population of gay individuals in their community, that have not revealed their sexual condition. Down-low was a mastery show theme to get people to watch a talk show host, while they made millions off of them.

So, lets get it clear folks... If you have an issue with people, for not jumping on the way of the world boat ride, your anger is misplaced. Don't blame Christians, don't blame Blacks, don't blame Hispanics, don't blame Asians, don't blame Whites, and don't blame Indians, because there is only one authority that is the same yesterday, today, and forever in whom they choose to follow. And every faith uses that same document to live by.... If you have an issue, have it with God... But be warned there is no politician on earth that can stop His chastising nature.

[jemimah]

I am black so I can say the following: with all the stupidity in the black community today (sagging pants, Obamanism, etc.), most blacks are not so stupid as to think they can directly challenge Moral authority (which condemns sodomy) without eternal consequences. Plus, a person has to have a totally seared conscience to deny the coming Judgment.

Besides that, we have not forgotten that sodomy was a major weapon used to control and attempt to dehumanize the African slave!.

[Markie]

It really is hypocritical that blacks are the most opposed to same sex marriage. Blacks have always been the most racist, homophobic, sexist, intolerant people in our society, so this is no surprise at all. Yet, the black family is most likely headed up by a single parent ( a black mother) and Father's Day is one of the most confusing days in that community. Unfaithfulness, cheating and being on the "DL" is legendary in black America. While almost 99% of blacks in California were rushing to vote for Obama (who is really white), they were voting against gay people.

[joe orange]

The state shouldn't recognize any marriage, straight or gay. What ever happened to separation of church and state. The state should only recognize civil unions for straight's and gay's.

[Warren]

I don't understand black people. After 200 years of being discriminated against they don't recognize their own discrimination against another minority group. It really shouldn't surprise me. Just look at the state of Black America.

BTW, there are many blacks who are able to charge who they are. Its called passing or living as a white person because they are able to change how they act. I still haven't meet a gay person who can become a straight person.

[Jeremy R]

@onebombcutie

"They respect my point of view. They don't get all ignorant on me."

I doubt that. I would CERTAINLY mind if my Chinese friends voted against interracial marriage, and thus voted to make my marriage illegal. They would be hateful bigot traitors in my eyes.

" We can't change the color of our skin, however, you can always change your sexual preference"

Umm. Really?!? I am a man, and no force on this earth could make me love another man. No socialization, money, beatings could ever make me change my sexual orientation. I guess you feel you could wake up one morning and start loving women. That's an amazing skill.

"We didn't burn churches when we wanted equal rights. We marched peacefully."

Dr. King didn't burn churches, but there were plenty of groups that were not associated with Dr. King that did their fair share of damage.

" We were jailed, lynched, treated like sub-humans for many years. "

Blacks of the past suffered a lot. I don't know why you are bringing up the sob story though. I have experienced racism. As a result I work to bridge gaps and educate people who have not been around many blacks. I don't use that as an excuse to discriminate against others who are suffering "less" than me.

[dan]

Funny how they never poll Asian American voters. Asians make up a larger percentage of the population of LA and a larger percentage of the population of the state of CA than African Americans. The fact that the times and every other media outlet in CA almost always glaringly ignores a significant portion of its population is disturbing to say the least.

[Fair is Fair......]

Let's move to ban those who want to marry interracially and move african americans back to the back of the bus. We will see how they vote then....

[Brian Boru]

Homosexuality is simply a psychological disorder that demands treatment for those who are consumed by it. By attempting to rid themselves of the burden associated with the disease, homosexuals aggressively seek condonation from others who are not as unfortunate. Rather than appease homosexuals and aid in their spread of the disorder, it should be the responsibility of all those not infected to assist in any way they can to confront the problem and irradicate it. It's a societal catastrophe waiting to happen otherwise.

[Jeremy R]

"Ignorant African Americans like Homophobic Obama"

No reason to resort to hate speech. Yes, statistically, blacks voted down gay marriage, but so did many others. Blacks are only 10% of the population, or a lot of other failures in the prop 8 campaign hurt to like churches and anti-newsome campaigns. I think prop 8 not passing is a disgrace. I am surprised that blacks as a group didn't vote for it, however, your hateful speech is despicable and not helping the gay cause.

[zorro1x]

Latino Christians should continue to oppose homosexual marriage. As for the rest of you, please don't buy into the strange homosexual agenda which attempts to skew reality. People aren't born homosexual. They choose it. There is no scientific evidence to the dispute this.

[Mario]

Christians, Jews, Muslims, have a faith based opposition to homosexuality, and other sins that will produce a consequence that will shadow us all, just as the sun rises on the faithful, and the unfaithful alike. Race has no baring on it.

People that use it, are reaching for straws, and there is non there.

I have a nephew who is gay, I don't hate him, or disown him, I am not too particular to his lifestyle, but I love him, and will never condone it.... He understands that, I have a niece who dates the wrong kind of men, I dont disown her, or reject her. I tell her the truth, that there are better men out there for him, but she has to stop settling.

My mother taught all of her daughters (3) Women are like apple trees, as long as the fruit is up high, those seeking it, have to apply effort to get it, that have to labor for it, take risks for it. But, when the fruit is close to the ground, anyone can pick it off.

For the men, anything that comes too easy is not worth keeping, because you didn't find it, it fell into your lap. you didnt earn it, there was no cost, so you will never appreciate it.

There was a comment about black marriages failing.... Well last I checked there is an equal ratio all across the board. One of the issues I am dealing with in my young man's class.

Oh, and I am an educated Hispanic, that wants to talk facts, not a bunch of hot air, because its sad when everyone thinks your fool, but even worse when you open your mouth and erase all doubt.

[bagginz]

onebombcutie sez:

"I have plenty of gay friends, but I still appose gay marraige. [...] We can't change the color of our skin, however, you can always change your sexual preference. "

Why don't you ask your "plenty of gay friends" how easy it is to change a sexual preference? Newsflash: It's not a choice.

[Regan DuCasse]

Black people might be religious, but that faith falls short, as it does for most anyone regardless of ethnicity who claim faith, when it comes to treating a person the way they'd want to be treated. Empathy is from where the most ethical decisions and actions flow.

Black people are not so religious that out of wedlock births, children in foster care and on welfare or the issue of crime and incarceration reflect it. But they sure showed 'the gays' how religious they are!

[mateo]

Hey onebomb, not to pile it on, but you said: "We (African Americans) only make up 11.5% of the population in this whole city; White about 46% and Hispanics is about 41%" Oh. I see. So the remaining 1.5% accounts for ALL the Asians, Pacific Islanders, Native Americans, etc. in this great city? I think your math (or your research source) is one other thing you might want to check.

[Regan DuCasse]

Onebombcutie : religious beliefs are not genetic either, but it's a protection allowed even when those of differing religions or of NO religion want to marry.
Color isn't gender, and sexual ORIENTATION isn't one's nationality.
But that doesn't mean blacks and gays have nothing in common.

Indeed, black SEXUALITY is what fomented Jim Crow and color made it easier to achieve.
But a gay man can relate to a casual encounter becoming a death sentence the way a Jim Crow raised black man can.
Gay men and black men are painted with the brush of being predatory, sexually aggressive and irresponsible. Black women and lesbians are exploited by the very men who wouldn't give them any respect in daylight.

To say nothing of the neglect and stereotype of the media to distrust and abuse from law enforcement and the justice system.

And how DARE you decide gay people can change their orientation?! How would YOU know? Have you tried to change YOURS, even under threat by what gay people are threatened with if they don't?
A woman who has had children wouldn't appreciate a lecture on childbearing from a MAN, so someone straight is in NO PLACE to tell a gay person what they are, and what they can do about it.

You think a gay person can't relate to passing? The way light skinned blacks who could pass did during Jim Crow?
Blacks and gays have a LOT in common. More than anyone else...recognize that.
And considering that it's symbiotic and indigenous to ALL human life, it's patently stupid to deny homosexuality isn't biological in origin and isn't nearly the mystery people say it is.
Certainly not something worth humiliating and threatening gay people over so that MARRYING is the only protection they have against having very precious things taken away, like their own children.
Besides: this amendment is embarrassing in how retrograde it is.
We haven't had adults be KEPT from marrying and caring for their own children for fear of having them taken away since SLAVERY.

[DJB]

These divisions won't last. It is wrong to discriminate against homosexuals and deny them respect and a shot at married happiness.

We don't need more excuses to tear each other apart. Racism and homophobia have already given us plenty. The key is to recognize that all of the struggles of the oppressed are connected.

California voted for the gay marriage ban out of fear, ignorance, and prejudice. If we keep speaking out for justice and equality, the state will recognize its mistake.

[watchinginIL]

So the question remains: why not picket in front of an AME church?

[Ricardo]

I can't understand why African Americans don't support gay marriage when hating someone because they are different is as comparable as what we fought for during the 50s and 60s but ignorance is bliss. When I see men and women marching in the streets its like the 50s just that homosexual don't have a MLK who can drive this point home that discrimination is wrong.

[ignorance_intolerant]

Isn't it funny that the most oppressed ethnicity is also the most oppressive towards gays? I'm not racist by any means. I am mexican-american and half of my friends are black. I just can't help but point out the irony of it all. Blacks were born black and that's a scientific fact. Gays are gay since they are born and that's also a scientific fact. What's the difference?

[Jamie]

Will the LA Times stop trying to paint the Black community as a bunch of homophobes! Half of California voted for Prop 8, people of every race, age, and religion!

Surveys done over the phone can be deceptive. Remember those polls done before the election saying Prop 8 was going down by 20%? Many people feel pressure to give the politically correct answer when surveyed. It's not politically correct to be against gay marriage, younger people are the most concerned about they way they're perceived.

I bet there are quite a few people who won't admit they voted for Prop 8. You can't just blame it passing on African Americans or older people. There are a lot of younger people who support traditional marriage, they just aren't being vocal about it.

[Sally]

Comes down to education. Not race. Whites are more educated.

[Anthony Belef]

OK, lets see...take gay rights, add race and mix! Of course there are going to be a lot of emotions and strong talk on this one. However, lets all step back and take a deep breath. 1) don't "blame" blacks for losing the election and 2) don't blame gays for this article. Its a poll, its from the LA Times, so out with those outrageous claims that gays are blaming blacks. Now then, what does the poll tell us? Well, about individuals, it says nothing. Every black and latino and white person is different and has their own opinion. About a group? Logic would tell us that gays have some progress to make in reaching the vote of blacks and latinos. No one needs to be blamed, but it certainly seems logical and fair to make the observation. Only by identifying and acknowledging our opportunities are we ever going to be able to overcome challenges. EVERY vote counts. EVERY effort must be made. Latinos and blacks should not feel they have to answer to anyone based on their identity - each person answers to themselves. Same for gays. But as a "group", its necessary to identify in so much that people in this country have strong affiliations along racial and ethnic lines and it would be foolhardy not to reach out to these communities.

[Ian]

Who cares? The only thing that this kind of article does to it's readers is create MORE of a separation in their minds, a sense of "us" and "them" and how "different" we are. "Those white people are way too damn liberal", or "those african american people need to be more tolerant". What percentage of a particular race voted for a particular politician? Think about it. We shouldn't care, because these kinds of statistics only divide us. I recommend we stop wasting our time taking these kinds of polls and then spreading the word and reporting them to everybody.

Perhaps an article applauding the virtues and happiness related to the acceptance that EVERYONE should be striving for regardless of race, and regardless of what group of humans we are talking about accepting, would be in order.

[Jeffery P. Segall, RN]

INEQUALITY ANYWHERE IS INEQUALITY EVERYWHERE!

If ANYBODY should know that, it should be the BLACK community. Martin Luther King, Jr. would never stand for this-his widow said so.

I've always wondered why Blacks have accepted the religion forced upon them as slaves, anyway.

[Jeffery P. Segall, RN]

"notice both mayor antonio villagrosa and mayor galvin newson (both possible running for gov) cheated on women and they are tell us what is right and wrong. What moral authority do they have to tell us what is right and wrong. Shouldn't they get their own house in order before they tell us the people how to run our houses!!

You mean like Newt Gingrich, Larry Craig, David Vitter, John Ensign, John McCain, Rudy Giuliani, Bob Barr, Gary Bauer?

[PDuff]

This is what happens when you get your education about the world from only church. I wonder how college-educated black people feel about gay marriage?

[Earthman]

To those of you who remain in denial and deluded regarding this notion that "gays" are "born that way";I have read over 80+ research papers and reports, nearly 35 well documented books on the subject and a handful of court attempts on this area of homosexuality; drill this into your convoluted little brains;
NOT ONE SINGLE study, report, document, writer or court ruling ON THE PLANET supports that position with conclusive, unbiased evedence. FACT: "gays" are not "born that way".

[Sean]

Left Wing Dems think that because African Americans identify with the Democrat Party that they should agree with all of their radical/ and unconstitutional ideas. Blacks arent Marxists. They are misrepresented Christians.

[coolhand]

Homosexuality is not a race! Its a behavior just like heterosexuality. So, what makes homosexuals think they can make their own rules.

The Constitution nor the declaration of Independence say nothing about marriage! Why do you homosexuals think you can change tradition and reality. Your all nuts. Its all against nature and Mother-Nature don't play that game.

This has nothing to do with race. so, stop whining about or comparing your homosexual lust to any other race that has fought to be free. Dudes or whatever you are, your free. Now shut up and be all homosexual you want. Just don't come around me!

[coolhand]

Forgot to mention. I am Mexican-American. So you homosexuals can stop whining. I am for Marriage between a man and a woman.

Mother-Nature dictates that and so do many others.

So-called homosexual marriage is one big JOKE! Its a money grab and that's it! Man and woman made this world, not two men or two women! GEES~!

Common sense rules this whole silly argument and mean silly!

[coolhand]

What a stupid childish comment! Your chancing an illusion!

You have a long, long, long wati!

"As I've always said, we just have to wait for the old narrow-minded bigots to all die off and then society can progress. But it never seems to happen. It's depressing."

[coolhand]

What a stupid childish comment! Your chancing an illusion!

You have a long, long, long wait!

"As I've always said, we just have to wait for the old narrow-minded bigots to all die off and then society can progress. But it never seems to happen. It's depressing."

[John]

Peopel are born with their skin color, but it is not yet scientific fact that people are born gay. There is no proof for that as of now. That's not anti-gay, just where science is on the issue.

[cmags]

Why don't the gays just create their own ceremony and have it recognized legally by the government? Marriage is a Christian tradition and most of the gays don't believe in God so why do they even want that? Just create your own! That one guy did it with christmas...he was over it so he made his own holiday called Kwanzaa. Do that!

[Shazamm]

This is all a moot point. There is no such thing as gay marriage and there never will be, regardless of how much legal and cultural make-up the lawyers and politicians slap on it. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Go Carrie!

[srahk]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. No where in science has it been proven that sexual orientation is biologically predetermined. Just as being a murderer or a thief is not biologically predetermined. It is a choice. Certain sustained behaviors alter PET scans and the anatomy of the brain. This has been observed medically. Just because certain differences in the brain of homosexuals have been observed, doesn't mean that it is a result of heredity. Eye color, skin color and certain physical attributes are predetermined by and large. However, how can previously homosexual and deviant individuals, turn around, recant of their sinful previously lifestyles and say they are now heterosexual? Doesn't this indicate that homosexuality is a choice? A murderer can keep murdering or decide s/he is wrong and stop. But, can a blue-eyed person say they no longer have blue eyes? It doesn't make sense. Be rational if you can. Younger people often repeat what they have been taught in school without much critical thinking or research. They should listen to their elders more. At the very least think more.

[Victor]

Quick thought... All you people that think you are born gay.... What about Bi-sexuals? Are they just born confused? I

[Victor]

"We’re being denied the same rights as heterosexuals. This is unconstitutional discrimination."

There are two complaints here. First, homosexuals don't have the same legal liberties heterosexuals have. Second, homosexual couples don't have the same legal benefits as married couples.

The first charge is simply false. Any homosexual can marry in any state of the Union and receive every one of the privileges and benefits of state-sanctioned matrimony. He just cannot marry someone of the same sex. These are rights and restrictions all citizens share equally.

I realize that for homosexuals this is a profoundly unsatisfying response, but it is a legitimate one, nonetheless.

Let me illustrate. Smith and Jones both qualify to vote in America where they are citizens. Neither is allowed to vote in France. Jones, however, has no interest in U.S. politics; he’s partial to European concerns. Would Jones have a case if he complained, "Smith gets to vote [in California], but I don’t get to vote [in France]. That’s unequal protection under the law. He has a right I don’t have." No, both have the same rights and the same restrictions. There is no legal inequality, only an inequality of desire, but that is not the state’s concern.

The marriage licensing law applies to each citizen in the same way; everyone is treated exactly alike. Homosexuals want the right to do something no one, straight or gay, has the right to do: wed someone of the same sex. Denying them that right is not a violation of the equal protection clause.

The second complaint is more substantial. It’s true that homosexual couples do not have the same legal benefits as married heterosexuals regarding taxation, family leave, health care, hospital visitation, inheritance, etc. However, no other non-marital relationships between individuals--non-gay brothers, a pair of spinsters, college roommates, fraternity brothers--share those benefits, either. Why should they?

If homosexual couples face "unequal protection" in this area, so does every other pair of unmarried citizens who have deep, loving commitments to each other. Why should gays get preferential treatment just because they are sexually involved?

The government gives special benefits to marriages and not to others for good reason. It’s not because they involve long-term, loving, committed relationships. Many others qualify there. It’s because they involve children. Inheritance rights flow naturally to progeny. Tax relief for families eases the financial burden children make on paychecks. Insurance policies reflect the unique relationship between a wage earner and his or her dependents (if Mom stays home to care for kids, she--and they--are still covered).

These circumstances, inherent to families, simply are not intrinsic to other relationships, as a rule, including homosexual ones. There is no obligation for government to give every human coupling the same entitlements simply to "stabilize" the relationship. The unique benefits of marriage fit its unique purpose. Marriage is not meant to be a shortcut to group insurance rates or tax relief. It’s meant to build families.

Peter Sprigg of the Family Research Council sums the issue up nicely:

"Gay citizens" already have the same right to marry as anyone else--else to the same restrictions. No one may marry a close blood relative, a child, a person who is already married, or a person of the same sex. However much those restrictions may disappoint the incestuous, pedophiles, polygamists, and homosexuals, the issue is not discrimination. It is the nature of marriage itself.

[coolhand]

Here is a idea! Just bring back the sodomy laws. Nothing belongs in that area any way. Its for dumping waste from the body.

So why was made legal? To appease the homosexual politicians, why else! !

This is a silly argument. You can't compare homosexuality to any race that has been discriminated against. Homosexuality is a behavior, so what is all the BS about. Homosexuality is not a race, like heterosexuality is not a race and neither will ever be a race! Bring it on day dreamers!

Don't forget Mother-Nature don't play the homosexual game!

The poster's that compare any race to homosexuality are straw grabbers and whiners!

[coolhand]

"I will not vote for OBAMA again. He is a Rick Warren homophobe. Complete liar and no friend to gays.

He has flipped on us 100%

2012 no gay vote for Bigot Obama"

If thought there are that many homosexuals and their butties to make a difference. Oh, gee I am scared!

Marriage is between a man and a woman! PERIOD!

[Fairness]

all of your personal opinions about same sex marriage are facinating and COMPLETELY not the point. Equal rights isnt just a catchy phrase - the constitution guarantees the same rights to all persons, thats why they are called equal. YOU and your facinating opinions about what marriage is or who is born how are IRRELEVANT to a state sanctioned union - its really very simple, everyone gets the same rights. You dont get do decide who gets them and THE STATE does not impose RELIGIOUS BASED OPINIONS on the people.

[coolhand]

Since homosexuals cannot reproduce and the purpose of marriage is to create a family with children I think we should vote to make marriage between a man and woman only between a man and a woman who don't have to reproduce and actually make a family.

[concerned]

Not in agreement, it wasn't meant to be this way. Only between a man and a women period.