Schwarzenegger makes pitch for ballot measures

In a last-ditch effort to rally Californians behind ballot measures in Tuesday's special election, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger will participate this morning in a town hall meeting in the City of Industry.

Schwarzenegger has been aggressively campaigning for the passage of propositions 1A through 1F, aimed at restructuring  the state’s budget, warning of dire consequences should the measures fail. He visited three African American churches in Los Angeles over the weekend to ask voters to support the measures.

The state’s budget deficit is projected to climb to $21.3 billion if the ballot measures fail. Most measures have been trailing in the polls.

The town hall is scheduled to take place at 10 a.m. at the Industry Hills Expo Center in the City of Industry and will be webcast live.

--Victoria Kim

Comments

[Mark Moshlak]

THE SKY IS FALLING! WAIT! IT ISN'T FALLING! NO WAIT!!!! IT'S CALIFORNIA THAT'S FALLING, RIGHT INTO CONSERVANCY!!! Look folks here's what it is... The California Legislature, our governor, and everyone inbetween has caused our state to fall into the muck and mire it's in now. It's so awful that Louisiana has a better credit rating than us. These proposals are full of dubious crap that our government purposely left out in order to wham bam it's a SHAM us into voting for again. It's no wonder that they're not going through. People finally got fed up and they won't carry the weight anymore. When the state becomes bankrupt and must be forced into a conservancy, maybe then something valuable can come from it. In fact it may be our only hope left to break us of the less than mediocre, overbloated, and self interest corrupted bureaucracy it's become. Let us go down in flames because we'll rise from the ashes.

[Adam Vant]

How come you cover all of Schwarzenegger's last minute begging and pleading for voters to approve the phony propositions, but the Times did not report about the tax protest against the propositions attended by thousands in Corona this past Saturday? Doesn't fit within the Times' pro-tax agenda, I guess.

[Agent Mike]

Not going to happen, give it up now. Might as well break out Plan B.

[A LA County Resident]

$15.4 billion deficit, if California’s ballot measures do pass

$21.3 billion deficit, if California’s ballot measures don’t pass

The cuts will have to be made anyway!!

I can’t believe the Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and other politicians believe shuffling money and borrowing money against gambling winnings (the lottery) is a solution.

The state is broke and spokesman for Schwarzenegger, Aaron McLear, is very disingenuous.

Life lesson: form a budget and spend what you have. Laying off hard working tax payers is not going to balance our budget or increase the state’s revenues.

The offshore oil drilling plan is not going to work.

Legalized marijuana farms are not going to work.

Selling state assets such parks and stadiums is not going to work.

I don’t buy the scare tactics. California needs to cut its costs. California can start by cutting services to illegal immigrants and sending those illegal immigrants back to where they came.

If CA is unwilling to admit that illegal immigrants are the root of the cost problem and/or cut services to illegals, put California in bankruptcy and let the courts and financial planners sort out the mess.

In regards to releasing prisoners, make sure you identify all the illegal criminals first. Then send those illegally criminals back to where they came from and send the country of origin an itemized bill and a request for re-imbursement and compensation.

I already voted by mail for the special election on Tuesday May 19, 2009.

I voted No on the desperate measures 1A - 1E and Yes on 1F.

[Kittybarfola]

Vote No on ALL of them (maybe except for 1F). We don't need new taxes which these will do.

[LA County Resident II]

I think you (LA County) need to get your facts straight. Though Illegal immigration IS a problem,That is not the root of the Budget mess. STOP USING THEM AS SCAPE GOATS!!!. Study after study has shown that US citizens are the biggest consumers of social programs. Immigrants in addition of performing the jobs that most don't want to do, they significantly contribute to our economy because they DO pay taxes like you and me.

[Mario]

I am so happy to be a Californian today, to read responses like I see here, being a democrat I guess I just took it for granted that the spin machines would be too much for Californians to handle. Its time our elected officials stepped up to the plate and represented American interest. not special interest and the greed that produces corporate pressure.

Rain in the spending on free giveaways, I have to tell the truth, working in the medical field, I see Americans fall through the cracks of our social safety nets when they fall on hard times, but never seem to get the breaks illegal immigrants get. There is no free healthcare, education, transportation, affordable housing, food and beverages to our low income citizens. We lose our quality of life, because our credit worthiness is destroyed, bill collectors all but come and drag us out of our houses when we dont pay for our healthcare. If you want a pretty good education, you have to send your kid to private school, because public schools are over crowded, under staffed, or falling apart. Affordable housing is lost because competition drives the price, just like food, clothes and other necessities, what used to take me 20 minutes to drive 11 miles each way, now takes me an hour going and 1 and a half returning that is more time away from my family. my 16 year old daughter cant find a summer job, even with the work permit, because the local fast food, and retail established are filled with people that for one speak very little if any english... its okay to discriminate against her because she is not bilingual, to serve a population boom of individuals that are here illegally.

Where is the American representation? Which elected official will step up for Americans like our mayor stepped up for those undocumented. MR. MAYOR, I AM NOT ILLEGAL EITHER, WHERE IS MY REPRESENTATION FOR A BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE?

[Jay Los Angeles]

We have to pay for it one way or other, We can have our children, and our grandchildren take the tab when they come of age, or we can knuckle down, sacrifice and make our government reverse the damage they did with all these massive programs that do not work for Americans anyways.

I am voting NO

[Bettybb]

The voters have figured it out. We are not interested in another bandaid solution to the huge economic mess we face in CA, just so a few rich "elite" can continue to rake in the money, and politicians can delay doing anything.

There is a complete structural imbalance in our economy. Almost half the taxes actually paid in CA come from 1% of the people, and quess what, they are leaving the state.

Illegal immigration is part of the economic problem. Low skilled people take more out of the economy than they put in. You can only have so many of them, and our politicans and dishonest business have allowed them to flood into our state.
They must be deported or we will sink into a third world economy. Actually, not we, because my tax paying family will be gone.

Prop 13 is another part of the problem. It should not apply to commerical real estate.

Special interest money running our government is along piece of the problem. The buying of our government must stop.

Safe electoral districsts are also part of the problem. Politicans ignore the will of the people ( ie Californians want illegal aliens kicked out), and only listen to their party elders. Why? They know if they are backed by the party, they will lbe re-lelected because the districts have been drawn so theiy are safe.

It is time to force Sacramento to reform. Vote No on all propositions.

[Brittanicus]

Simply recognize that California is a---SANCTUARY STATE---and by removing millions of illegal immigrants and their families will assist on balancing the budget. So vote---NO--on all propositions as you are supporting parasite businesses that hire illegal cheap labor. The Liberal Assembly in Sacramento has allowed foreign labor to settle here and now the Piper must be paid. Taxpayers are unknowingly paying billions of dollars in State benefits to underwrite education, health care, housing and other benefits. Demand a permanent E-Verify workplace extraction tool now. Learn more at NUMBERSUSA, JUDICIALWATCH.

[Brittanicus]

City councilor Andronovich stated that $ 11. billion can be attributed to every illegal alien, who breaks into America, get a free lunch on the taxpayers in Los Angeles county. That's just Los Angeles? What about the rest of the state? How about the taxes extracted from every American, throughout AMERICA? Give a resounding--- NO--- to all propositions. Recall that Proposition 187 was killed, so now Sacramento Democrats must be held accountable.

Every year trillions of dollars go silently to supporting the illegal immigration invasion, plus a new AMNESTY will keep extracting money from your taxes to pay for those who keep coming across our border. Join NUMBERSUSA JUDICIALWATCH to stop 2nd AMNESTY? NO MORE TAXES TO PAY ILLEGAL ALIENS & FAMILIES! IMMIGRATION LAWS ARE NOT BROKEN, JUST NOT ENFORCED! So enforce the 1986 Simpson/Mazzoli bill, the Immigration Reform & Control Act as enacted. Offer your support to Rep.Shuler (D-NC) on his gov website. Phone: 828-252-1651 and Senator Sessions (R-AL) (256) 533-0979

[Delaware Bob]

How much does it cost to keep the 3 million ILLEGAL ALIENS in the State of California? I don't know.............about.........$19 BILLION a year? Ever give any thought to getting rid of the ILLEGAL ALIENS? Why do you think other States are passing laws to get rid of the ILLEGAL ALIENS?

There comes a time when the taxpayers deserve a break! Why are you spending BILLIONS to support those, who, by law, should not be in this Country?

Arnold, you play the tough guy in the movies, but you are a wimp when it comes to getting rid of the 3 MILLION ILLEGAL ALIEN INVADERS there in California.

For God's sake, California, get a State Illegal Immigration Law like Oklahoma, Mississippi, Missouri, South Carolina, Utah, Nebraska and a number of other States. Get rid of the ILLEGAL ALIENS and you get rid of all the problems that go with them like paying for their ILLEGAL ALIEN children to to born, the schooling of them, the medical care, welfare for the parents, public housing, like obama's aunt, and the list goes on and on.

FOR GOD'S SAKE, WAKE UP!

[Truth]

Undocumented immigrants paying more taxes than you think!!

immigrationpolicy(DOT)org/

Eight million Undocumented immigrants pay Social Security, Medicare and income taxes. Denying public services to people who pay their taxes is an affront to America’s bedrock belief in fairness. But many “pull-up-the-drawbridge” politicians want to do just that when it comes to Undocumented immigrants.

The fact that Undocumented immigrants pay taxes at all will come as news to many Americans. A stunning two thirds of Undocumented immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes.

Yet, nativists like Congressman Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., have popularized the notion that illegal aliens are a colossal drain on the nation’s hospitals, schools and welfare programs — consuming services that they don’t pay for.

In reality, the 1996 welfare reform bill disqualified Undocumented immigrants from nearly all means tested government programs including food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid and Medicare-funded hospitalization.

The only services that illegals can still get are emergency medical care and K-12 education. Nevertheless, Tancredo and his ilk pushed a bill through the House criminalizing all aid to illegal aliens — even private acts of charity by priests, nurses and social workers.

Potentially, any soup kitchen that offers so much as a free lunch to an illegal could face up to five years in prison and seizure of assets. The Senate bill that recently collapsed would have tempered these draconian measures against private aid.

But no one — Democrat or Republican — seems to oppose the idea of withholding public services. Earlier this year, Congress passed a law that requires everyone who gets Medicaid — the government-funded health care program for the poor — to offer proof of U.S. citizenship so we can avoid “theft of these benefits by illegal aliens,” as Rep. Charlie Norwood, R-Ga., puts it. But, immigrants aren’t flocking to the United States to mooch off the government.

According to a study by the Urban Institute, the 1996 welfare reform effort dramatically reduced the use of welfare by undocumented immigrant households, exactly as intended. And another vital thing happened in 1996: the Internal Revenue Service began issuing identification numbers to enable illegal immigrants who don’t have Social Security numbers to file taxes.

One might have imagined that those fearing deportation or confronting the prospect of paying for their safety net through their own meager wages would take a pass on the IRS’ scheme. Not so. Close to 8 million of the 12 million or so illegal aliens in the country today file personal income taxes using these numbers, contributing billions to federal coffers.

No doubt they hope that this will one day help them acquire legal status — a plaintive expression of their desire to play by the rules and come out of the shadows. What’s more, aliens who are not self-employed have Social Security and Medicare taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks.

Since undocumented workers have only fake numbers, they’ll never be able to collect the benefits these taxes are meant to pay for. Last year, the revenues from these fake numbers — that the Social Security administration stashes in the “earnings suspense file” — added up to 10 percent of the Social Security surplus.

The file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year. Beyond federal taxes, all illegals automatically pay state sales taxes that contribute toward the upkeep of public facilities such as roads that they use, and property taxes through their rent that contribute toward the schooling of their children.

The non-partisan National Research Council found that when the taxes paid by the children of low-skilled immigrant families — most of whom are illegal — are factored in, they contribute on average $80,000 more to federal coffers than they consume. Yes, many illegal migrants impose a strain on border communities on whose doorstep they first arrive, broke and unemployed.

To solve this problem equitably, these communities ought to receive the surplus taxes that federal government collects from immigrants. But the real reason border communities are strained is the lack of a guest worker program.

Such a program would match willing workers with willing employers in advance so that they wouldn’t be stuck for long periods where they disembark while searching for jobs. The cost of undocumented aliens is an issue that immigrant bashers have created to whip up indignation against people they don’t want here in the first place.

With the Senate having just returned from yet another vacation and promising to revisit the stalled immigration bill, politicians ought to set the record straight: Illegals are not milking the government. If anything, it is the other way around.

The Undocumented Immigrants pay the exact same amount of taxes like you and me when they buy Things, rent a house, fill up gas, drink a beer or wine, buy appliances, play the states lottery and mega millions . Below are the links to just a few sites that will show you exactly how much tax you or the Undocumented Immigrant pays , so you see they are NOT FREELOADERS, THEY PAY TAXES AND TOLLS Exactly the same as you, Now if you take out 10% from your states /city Budget what will your city/state look like financially ?

Stop your folly thinking , you are wise USE YOUR WISDOM to see the reality. They pay more taxes than you think, Including FEDERAL INCOME TAX using a ITN Number that is given to them by the IRS, Social Security Taxes and State taxes that are withheld form their paychecks automatically.

GAS Taxes paid by you & the Undocumented are the same. Go to and check out your states tax;

Cigarette Taxes paid by you & the Undocumented are the same, check this out in :

Food Taxes, paid by You & the Undocumented are the same in each state check your state :

Clothing Sales Taxes, are the same paid by you & the Undocumented Immigrant;

City Taxes, are the same paid by you or the Undocumented, since he pays rent and the LANDLORD pays the city :

Beer Taxes, are the same paid by you or the Undocumented:

[MaryJ]

Sacramento, you should have listened to us in 1994. But hey, you preferred to give huge piles of taxpayer funds to illegal immigrants rather than look out for the interests of the AMERICAN CITIZENS who pay for your salaries. You drove all the middle-class taxpayers out of this state, leaving the few native-born real Americans like my family to pick up the slack. You need money now, so go get it from the illegals you think are so much better than WE are.

[Bill]

Meantime, with millions of Americans without jobs, the invasion continues, no Liberal Democrat will address the 500 pound gorilla in the room, and millions of invading, plundering, welfare loving, Illegal Aliens taking millions of jobs that should be American jobs and 100,s billions of dollars in social services that should be for American citizens!

One cannot be political correct and admit that Illegal Aliens are an large part of the problems in this Nation.

Their negative impact extends to every area from Sub-par loans & defaults, Underground economy, Massive document fraud, Lower standard of living, Crime, Overflowing prisons , Bankrupted hospitals, Failing schools, Property Taxes, Insurance costs, Environment, Culture, Welfare costs, Welfare fraud, SS fraud, Voter fraud, Disrespect for our laws & country, our Constitution against invasion and even Balance of payments occurring from oil and other imports to support the 20 to 30 million illegal aliens in this country!

One has to only look at Calif. which is basically mostly an Spanish speaking, Bankrupt state that cannot afford to provide Welfare, Schooling, Medical, Prison cells etc. for millions of MS-13 Gang bangers, Drug dealers, Rapist and other assorted Criminals and uneducated, fast breeding, third world rejects from Mexico!

In a very few years it will be impossible to see where Mexico ends and Calif. begins as both will be an third world cesspool!

Failure to secure our borders and reward the Invading horde for their invasion and their relatives in an never ending chain with American Citizenship is nothing less than committing National Suicide & will assure our future is an over populated Spanish speaking third world Nation that is an Cesspool of Corruption, Crime, Poverty and Misery modeled on Mexico!

[Bill]

Our Politicians keep telling us our Immigration laws are broken and we need an comprehensive solution, which are code words for Amnesty, our Immigration Laws are not broken, they just have not been enforced, what is broken is our Political system when we elect Corrupt/Pandering politicians that puts their desires ahead of the Constitution of USA and the Rule of Law!

Our government fails the most basic and primary task & duty of government, to protect this Nation and its Citizens from invasion and enforce its laws.

They refuse to abide by our Constitution, refuse to enforce our Immigration Laws and refuse to honor their Oath of Office!

Our Government, past & present, Republican & Democrat, have allowed the invasion of 20 to 40 million criminals and uneducated peons which is the largest invasion of any Nation, at any time, by any means & in direct violation of Article IV, Section IV of our Constitution.

This refusal to abide by our Constitution or enforce our Immigration Laws should be classified as Treason of the most foul kind, & as grounds for impeachment & trials for Treason!

Not only have they allowed the invasion, they force American tax payers to pay Billions on Billions of dollars to provide Welfare, Prison cells, Educate the invaders numerous children, and free medical care, at the same time the invading horde break numerous laws and massive document fraud, & are destroying our schools, hospitals, communities, culture and standard of living while Robbing, Raping, Killing & Assaulting American Citizens at an rate the terrorist can only dream about.

Recent statements in Mexico from both President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary something needs to be done. "Our inability to prevent weapons from being illegally smuggled across the border to arm these criminals causes the deaths of police officers, soldiers, and civilians," she said.

But no mention, concern or care that their refusal to stop the Massive Invasion of Illegal Aliens pouring across our borders or enforce our immigration laws that causes an estimated 25 Americans deaths per day and 10,s of thousands victims of Assault, Robberies, Rapes, Identify thief, and other assorted crimes committed by the invading horde of Illegal Aliens from Mexico on American citizens each year!

Most of our Politicians in Wash. DC are wading knee deep in innocent American blood and suffering because they put Politics ahead of the welfare of American Citizens & the future of this Nation! The Welfare vote for the Democrats to further their Socialist Agenda and the Slave Labor for their Pay Masters in the Chamber of Commerce & Business for the Republicans is more important to our Corrupt power mad Politicians than the lives and safety of Americans citizens!

The Citizens of this great Nation have not sacrificed with blood, sweat & tears for over 200 years & obeyed the Laws of the land, paid the taxes, and fought the wars & built this Nation to see Corrupt politicians turn this Nation into the United States of Mexico without a shot being fired, to serve their demented, nefarious goals and lust for power!

[Bill]

Meantime, with millions of Americans without jobs, the invasion continues, no Liberal Democrat will address the 500 pound gorilla in the room, and millions of invading, plundering, welfare loving, Illegal Aliens taking millions of jobs that should be American jobs and 100,s billions of dollars in social services that should be for American citizens!

One cannot be political correct and admit that Illegal Aliens are an large part of the problems in this Nation.

Their negative impact extends to every area from Sub-par loans & defaults, Underground economy, Massive document fraud, Lower standard of living, Crime, Overflowing prisons , Bankrupted hospitals, Failing schools, Property Taxes, Insurance costs, Environment, Culture, Welfare costs, Welfare fraud, SS fraud, Voter fraud, Disrespect for our laws & country, our Constitution against invasion and even Balance of payments occurring from oil and other imports to support the 20 to 30 million illegal aliens in this country!

One has to only look at Calif. which is basically mostly an Spanish speaking, Bankrupt state that cannot afford to provide Welfare, Schooling, Medical, Prison cells etc. for millions of MS-13 Gang bangers, Drug dealers, Rapist and other assorted Criminals and uneducated, fast breeding, third world rejects from Mexico!

In a very few years it will be impossible to see where Mexico ends and Calif. begins as both will be an third world cesspool!

Failure to secure our borders and reward the Invading horde for their invasion and their relatives in an never ending chain with American Citizenship is nothing less than committing National Suicide & will assure our future is an over populated Spanish speaking third world Nation that is an Cesspool of Corruption, Crime, Poverty and Misery modeled on Mexico!

[thgirbla]

Thank YOU California, hopefully by your vote, the "Tax and Spend" mentality of the Govt. will realize that the Taxpayers are tired of the waste!!!
It would be nice to see Natl. Govt. spending innitiatives put on a ballot to the Taxpayers, BEFORE the spending was authorized!!!
AGAIN, way to go California!!!
We here in Texas are feeling the same illegal immigration and wasted Govt. spending that you have. I believe this will send a strong message to the Govt. Leaders (???), that the gravy train has run off the tracks!!!

[John Russell]

I hope the rest of the country is reading this. The current US Congress and President takes their direction from California. California led the nation is foreclosurers many due to speculation that prices will keep going up. California leads is taxing to death their constituents through environmental and social programs.

Now, the VOTERS of California have had enough of Government intervention and they voted down these ballot measures.

But guess what is going to happen?

The FEDERAL government will bail you folks out because you are too big to fail. The Federal government doesn't have to balance their budget. Now I along with the other taxpayers will have to pay for California's excesses!

Stop the insanity!

[Ballen]

California has created a semi-socialist state with program after program run by the state and paid for by taxes. The results are a bankrupt state, companies and jobs leaving the state, high spending on education with extremely poor results, medical care programs which are out of control, and extremely high foreclosure rates on real estate. Al of this comes from DEBT. Living beyond your means. This is the true formula for financial disaster and it is on display for everybody to see. The only bigger disaster is Obama's spending which will result in the entire US being put in the position of California....BANKRUPT.

[Jesse Silverglate]

Sounds like the big divide in California is between those who believe illegal immigrants are the cause and cure for California's financial woes and those who think that illegal workers are not getting more than they contribute in taxes. Perhaps the Times needs to run a story with the facts, so that voters can make an informed choice when voting. While you have a scapegoat, you will never find a workable solution. All demagogues know it is easier to blame a scapegoat than deal with difficult choices.

[Dean]

Can someone please explain to me why, when we convict an illegal alien of a crime, we don't just send them right back to their originating country? Why do they ever wind up in our jails and prisons anyway? Send 'em right back! Put 'em on a plane, offload the plane at the foreign airport, and return home empty!
Problem solved.

[Mike Moran]

Stop giving things away free! Health care to illegals, jobs to illegals. enforce the laws - If you hire an illegal, you get heavily fined. And stop with the Americans won't do those jobs - with unemployment as high as it is out there, there's plenty of "legal" workforce. There's plenty of unskilled legal labor available - they get hired to pick the crops and o the lawns of they get off unemployment - you can't have it both ways. If it's more lucrative to stay unemployed why would you work?
And stop raising taxes - you're only pissing off TAXPAYORS. What'll Cali do if you lose them???

[dude]

Don't let them fool you. Whenever there is a budget crisis the politicians close things that are highly visible. When the Feds had a budget impasse they closed the Washington monument. This didn't save money, but they tried to scare people that services would disappear. The politicians in california will do the same thing. Instead of going through the budget and cutting useless employees and ending useless but little known programs, the politicians will propose something like sell an island, or close state parks, or slash police patrols. Those don't save much money but are intended to scare people. Meanwhile the true budget busters (the bloated public payroll of programs not involved with public safety and education) are ignored by the politicians, because they can count on these economically dependent public employees and welfare recipients to continue to vote reliably and predictably.

[dude]

Yes sometimes the system has to go down in flames because it is hopelessly corrupt and unreformable. This is a good thing that the California government will go down in flames. It can be the start of an honest, lean, and pro-growth government. Get rid of all the illegals also and their drain on the public doffers. It won't solve everything but it will make a difference.

[george stryker]

there are 250,000 state "workers"

there are 250,000 state workers. have you ever had contact with one that actually worked? fire 10 to 20% and cut the pay of the others 10 to 20%

[LB Teacher]

I listen to Jon and Ken on KFI quite a bit. They and the LA Times trashed teachers during the midst of the proposition consideration, purposely to sabotage the vote. Jon and Ken constantly say let the state fail, and then start over. Looks like that's what the voters want.

One thing to consider...do you think Jon and Ken's massive salaries will ever take a hit? While us voters have to suffer now, you think those guys will be hurting?

Your children will suffer (schools), your property will suffer (fire), your security will suffer (prisons/police).

And yet talk radio will continue to thrive.

[Andrew]

Re: Illegal Aliens and their effect on the USA , Who
are we to believe? comments by truth as above or
what our lying eyes tell us as we see illegal aliens
in our schools,our hospitals,our jails , at all
Home Depots and marching in our streets under
foreign flags demanding even more benefits!
California citizens will not pay more in taxes
to support footsoldiers of Mexico's Agenda !

[Bill]

"...a plaintive expression of their desire to play by the rules..."

You are joking, right? A better expression would be to go back across the border and get in line, if they truly want to play by the rules. Villagarosa is going to do everything he can to protect his budget? Maybe he could save a few billion by getting all the illegals to go home. But you can't even get him or the stupid Governor to even say the words. "Undocumented citizens." Sure. And I'm the tooth fairy. What part of ILLEGAL do these idiots not get? Send them all home, take the violent gang members with them, and you will see better-paying jobs, better community services, safer cities, etc. No, they are not all bad people. But they are here ILLEGALLY. Fix that and I may think about a tax increase. But until the politicians show me they are serious about fixing the ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION problem, don't ask again. I welcome every LEGAL immigrant who stands in line and comes in when we can take them. STOP THE ILLEGAL INVASION!

[BrettL]

I can only hope that an era of personal responsibility will be the outcome of the disaster that is now in front of our state.

For over three decades, we have followed our leaders in spending money on programs we couldn't afford to accomplish liberal policies that don't encourage personal responsibility.

Liberals never seem to ask the answer the question, "How are we going to pay for all this?" They just dash headlong into ideologically driven policy without worrying a whip about the long term consequences.

We have no one to blame but ourselves.

[Jason]

Take that!
Don't give us anymore of this crap. You STOP SPENDING!
I hope we cut and cut DEEP.

[jnorow]

Lets just blame tthe illegals for everything.....the reality si the message that people are sending is that they want education, health care and etc but they also want fiscal responsiblity and that tax increases are not always the solution. The state is bloated with payroll, benefits, labor contracts and the like that require drastic cuts....get rid of the over staffing and useless programs and focus on the basic needs of the citizens...that is what californians are asking for.....forget (which I know is impossible) all the special interest groups and focus on what is best for california and all these social programs and highway funds need to be drastically reduced

[Karen]

Union's should not be allowed to invest the money that goes to pensions in the stock market. This is money that we, the taxpayers have to cover by paying higher taxes if they loose money. Can you imagine what would have happened if the Fed invested our social security money in the stock market, as they were thinking of doing a few years back? Start fazing out the pension plans. They're sucking our state dry. Let the state workers retire on their social security like the rest of us.

[Dirk Pearson]

Some of you Californians still don't get it.

Why do you think your emergency centers at hospitals are shutting down?

Illegal Immigrants.

Why do you think a bandaid costs $500.00 when a person that has insurance goes to the hospital?

Illegal Immigrants.

Someone has to pay for these illegals, and your property tax increases are not enough.
You wan't socialized medicine? You already have it.
Works great huh?

Your feel good law that will not refuse anybody at the hospitals is killing your state. Along with your sanctuary cities. Maybe after you give treatment to these people without insurance you could hold them as a slave to work at the hospitals until their debt is paid off.

[ebcon]

Does undocumented mean the same as illegal?

[George M]

Obamas, Schwarzennegars, etc are all the same; all too willing to spend our money and that of our children and grandchildren just to expand the size of Big Brother Government.

Politicians can't even balance a checkbook!

They're ruining the Nation and the State, just as the Perons did to another once great nation, Argentina, by taxing the hell out of the middle and upper classes.

Don't cry for me California.

[txdave]

Stop spending and lower taxes. Be more like the southern states who are the ones creating the jobs.

[The Starving Economist]

We are not going to get out of this mess with higher and higher doses of partisan hatred, neither at the legislative level or at the voter level. Our state is in a budgetary hole and we all have to be willing to compromise and work TOGETHER or we aren't going to get out of it. This may mean that some people will pay a modest amount more in taxes, temporarily. This will mean cuts in some services, increases in some user fees, and pay/benefit reductions for some state workers. Possibly some layoffs as well, although I hope not too many, because the problem with contracting the state economy further is that you then lower revenue received by the state in taxes and guess what you have then; another deficit. It's a spiral and it's not easy to get out of a spiral. I personally am sick of cuts to health care. I think a civilized nation should be able to balance their budget without threatening the lives of its citizens. I also think the very poor have taken enough of a hit. I recognize the anger about the illegal immigrant issue and one of many things we need a straight answer on from our leaders is whether or not the illegals are a net benefit to our economy or a net drag on it. Until we know the answer to that question I don't see how we can make rational policy concerning them. We also need to reverse some of the lock-ins we have created in passing past propositions as there is now not enough flexibility in our system to balance the budget in a sane amount of time every year. We are now paying our legislators year round to do little more than argue about the budget, and still pass it late, which has a lot of financial costs. So the 2/3 majority requirement to pass the budget has to go, among a lot of other things. I do agree that that state pension system may have to be reformed. I also think we should ask ourselves why we pay for health care for our elected officials when most of us have to face our messed-up health insurance market on our own, or our employers do. We should consider instead creating a health insurance alternative for small businesses, particularly start-ups, to encourage innovation and job creation. And I would like to know why we can't deport illegal immigrants who are in our prison system? Or why we can't send petty offenders home with ankle bracelets instead of giving them 3 hots and a cot? Legalizing marijuana would be ok with me for the tax money and to take some of the gold away from the gangs, but only if its use were permitted solely in places which applied for permits, because I don't think children should be exposed to it, and and I don't think I should have to breathe it. I'm allergic! Don't know how to get the DEA to back off on that one, though. In any case, we have to start paying back the money we've borrowed, and one reason these propositions were defeated is that we the people are sick of borrowing.

[ShowMeLeadership]

California---WWRD?

What Would Reagan Do?

Reagan would make sure our borders are secure, but also make sure everyone is paying their fair share of the tax burden.

Reagan would also decrease the size of government.

Reagan would also CUT taxes, not raise them to stimulate the economy.

California--find yourself another Reagan and you will begin to dig out of this hole that big spending, high taxing liberals have put you in!

[Thomas M.]

I wonder if there are enough people left in our nation with personal integrity to survive. Everyone is pointing fingers and so few accept personal responsibility for following our nations laws. Stealing and cheating are so widespreand that most citizens see it a right. This time we stole to much and the system is broken because of it. No budget can address the amount of stealing we are doing. Decade after decade we were told it does not matter what others think of you, just do your own thing, now people old and young are doing their own thing- destroying our nation with little to no ethinics. No amount of laws or budgets or cuts can compensate for a lack of personal ethnics. Unless we return to sound values and moral behviors our nation will continue to decline.

[Randy]

When Grown-ups Vote, there isn't a lot of drama, just clear thinking. Pundits who say 'they' the voters are just venting rage are unworthy of the ink used to print their opinions. Clear thinking says you don't tax the voters and taxpayers until they crack, you quit spending. And if you're a politician in California, perhaps the threat of your salary being controlled by your performance will clear your thinking.

[BTN]

California has a highly progressive tax system where successful people and high wage earners pay substantially higher taxes and tax rates than lower and middle wage earners.

There is not a tax revenue problem in California, there is ONLY a spending problem. Tax revenues have skyrocketed in the last 5 years, up over 70% - which is far far greater than population growth, inflation and the number of people in need.

[Phil]

This comment board looks like an updated version of "Mein Kampf". The problem isn't outsiders, ie immigrants, gypsies, or jews. The problem is that California has set up a governing system that is inherently not democratic. A minority is keeping the problems in this state from getting solved.

[RG]

"Truth", you are so uninformed about what ahem "Undocumented Workers" pay for taxes. Sure they pay the same 'little' taxes, like sales tax, cigarette tax, etc, etc, but for the most part, they do not pay nearly enough into the state and federal taxes to support what they take out.

Look at the State Budget Summary. Look at who's paying the majority of the taxes in this state. 15% of the Taxpayers pay 85% of the taxes! That's the top tier of the few remaining taxpayers. 85% of the Tax Takers pay little if any taxes because of their low income.

Take a look at the 2000 Census 41% of the Hispanic population doesn't even make $30K a year. And a full 55% makes less than $40K a year, yet they have the highest birth rate of any other race, averaging 2.3 kids per woman.

Take a look, too at the LAUSD 'Fingertip Facts'. 78% of the LAUSD enrollment is Hispanic. It costs California $8,600 to put a child through school each year. Factor in free lunches, free breakfast and after school care. Add in Section 8 housing, CALWORKS Stage 1 or Stage 2 and you can see where a huge majority of the population is taking way more out of the system than they're ever putting in.

Add in MediCal too, while you're at it and the costs of Prisons. Overall, here is how the State Budget breaks out and pay close attention; 33% goes to Education. 25% goes to MediCal and Welfare and 7% or so goes to Prisons. Add it all up and it comes out to a staggering 66%!!! That's TWO-THIRDS of our Tax Dollars going to 'Pregnancy-to-Prisons" Programs!

This illiterate population also uses the Police and Emergency services at rates that are far higher as well. The System is permanently broken. You can't defeat poverty by throwing money at it.

I propose this. Let us pass a "Parental Responsibility Act". Let us license having a child. Outrageous you may ask. How horrible. But I waited till I was 35 years old with a steady job before my wife and I had kids. If you can't pay to feed them, then you shouldn't be having kids on my dime. It is way too easy to drop a baby, or two or three for free at the local hospital, courtesy of the endangered Taxpayer.

[Jon]

I agree with most of the comments here. California needs to STOP SPENDING immediately and CUT TAXES. We should IMMEDIATELY fire all of those lazy government workers. Police? Who needs them? Fire fighters? Gone. Fires are just nature’s way of starting over. We should close all of California’s prisons and let all of the prisoners out. For goodness sake, stop fixing and maintaining all roads and bridges. My SUV can easily survive a few potholes. And that Golden Gate bridge, what an eyesore. It’s not like anyone visits California to see the Golden Gate bridge. All of the patients at California’s mental health facilities need to be put back on the street. Crazy people roaming around are a good source of entertainment. The oysters from Tomales Bay aren’t that good and I’ve noticed that the lifeguards at Bolsa Chica State Beach don’t looking anything like those from Baywatch. California needs to STOP SPENDING on such frivolous things.

Finally, all of us must start (and continue to) blame EVERYTHING on the MEXICANS. Mexicans are the new gays/blacks/Jews! They must be at fault for ALL of our problems. It’s not like the rest of us could ever be irresponsible or make bad decisions. We are HARD WORKING AMERICANS. We should not have to pay taxes!!!!! This is Socialism!

P.S. Some of you really need to look up the definition of Socialism.

[mensaReject]

The argument that Illegal Aliens pay more tax than they cost is the biggest HOAX ever played on the American taxpayer.

They use off the wall, unverifiable, hypothetical extrapolations prepared by a variety of pro-illegal non-profit entities that have no basis in fact.

The math is not complex. When employers withhold and submit payroll taxes to the government--there is a small number of illegals using fraudulent social security numbers included.

But at year end, these illegal "taxpayers" file returns and claim the Earned Income Tax Credit--which REFUNDS them not just what they paid, but far over it--depending on how many kids somewhere in the world, they claim as dependents. And of course, their filing also wipes out by refund any income taxes that may have been withheld.

A decade ago--before both political parties got in bed with the Illegals, the then IRS Commissioner testified that the ITIN program--which Clinton expanded so Illegals could pay their fair share of taxes--results showed that those Illegals who filed returns simply got 99% of the tax paid BACK in refunds.

The only way to get the actual factual data in this matter is to haul today's IRS Commissioner, along with the Social Security chief, into a public hearing--under oath--and force them to present the real record to the public.

[richard schumacher]

Unfunded populist mandates will bankrupt the state. To save itself California must:
- end the 2/3 majority requirement for tax increases and budgets
- allow for legislative override and/or sunsetting of all initiatives
- rescind Prop 13

[Steve]

There are lots of places to cut funds. The politicians just won't do it. They toss out the big guns like prison releases and teacher cuts. Our family scrutinized every dime and changed most of our habits and we cut 25% of our spend basically dollar by dollar. It adds up. The politicians are lazy or beholden to special interests that take most of the money. I'm not sure why there isn't a conflict of interest with the teacher's unions and politicians. They should excuse themselves for votes on those deals.

[Steve]

We solved the problem ourselves. We're one of those top 5% that pay 50% of the taxes here. We just purchased a new house in Las Vegas for pennies on the dollar and are moving there, saving over $25,000 a year on state tax (which covers a significant part of our mortgage). We'll keep our house here to enjoy on weekends when we want to visit. 2 of our 3 cars are now registered in NV at a significant savings. Since we work from home, it was not a tough choice. We'll also re-start our business and incorporate there. The politicians and the population in CA just lost more money as were are tired of paying more than our fair share to support this disaster in democracy. If you ever get it fixed and attract people like us instead of abusing us, we might move back into our California "vacation" home.

[Pasquale Goglia]

California voters exercise their power -- and that's the problem
That's not the problem, the problem? Voters no longer trust the politicians, neither party. When they threaten a loss of services, it is only the service closest to the people, but never the programs that will benefit their supporters that pay them off.
There isn't a better way to say this, our government is so corrupt,
they don't represent us any longer.
Even term limits don't work, they just move to another position, taking the money with them.
Perhaps if ALL spending needed voter approval, we can't trust and they don't care!

[Frixx]

What would Reagan do? While the illegal immigration problem does not cover 100% of the problem, Reagan gave amnesty to millions in 1986, encouraging even more millions to illegally migrate to the US. Reagan's chickens are coming home to roost. Even a big life boat can only hold so many. Many in California wanted cheap illegal labor. There is no free lunch, now the bill is coming due.

[Armed Texan]

As typical liberals who have never been held accountable for their actions, Californians want entitlements for everyone, including illegal aliens, but they don't want to pay for them. It's time to either pony up, or shut down the Golden Socialist Experiment. Get ready to give till it hurts, because the vultures have come home to roost.

[Christopher Reed]

If someone put a proposition on the ballot saying that taxes must be eliminated, spending must be restored to pre recession levels, and the budget must be balanced without borrowing money, I think that California voters might pass it.

[Time for a Change]

Here is a question to all of our elected officials. What have you had to give up in the past 4 years?

I have worked in the private sector for the past 25 years and I have seen first hand what our company has had to do in order to survive these tough economic times. I think those of us in the private sector feel it is time for the California gov't to start cutting back on some of the things I consider a luxury to have. Here is just one example.

Your state, city or county vehicle. When gas was almost $5 a gallon last year, I’m sure it was a blow to most of us, but if you’re driving around in a state, city or county vehicle I’m sure you didn’t feel it the way we did.

Now you want to double the registration / license fee. Again, it’s not going to hurt those driving around in a state, city or county vehicle but it will be a blow to those of us in the private sector.

It’s time for you to buy and drive your own vehicle and no more car allowances. You keep track of, and get reimbursed for, the actual miles you drive for business purposes.

If you have to buy a car, that will help the economy. Keeping track of your mileage for business purposes means you have to do a little more work, just like the rest of us have had to do.

It's pretty clear after yesterday that the people of California are tired, frustrated, angry and have no faith in the current leadership. They have no problem wanting to take more of our dollars or cutting services we need, but when it comes them giving up something, it's completely out of the question.

You don't need any more of our tax dollars, you have more than enough, just stop the waste and fraud.

[for parity]

Re: The 2 front page stories today "Voters Kill budget measures" and 'voters share the blame'
Folks,

I wish not to suggest voters do not share the blame -- but, perspective here please! And, how about the stories you (the media) have chosen not to discuss along the way, and today.

Californians actually did say NO! It just needs to be said with a positive tone. Will all members in the MSM stand up and repeat after me:

Californians said NO! Californians said NO!

Now - go out and write the news which represents the majority of the voters - not, the little handful of ...

The LA Times, today, points fingers everywhere - but... where they should be pointed - at the press, itself.

In the headlined lead story on A-1 it's explained right away that the big one Prop 1A would "trim spending" but "irked fiscal conservatives." A few sentences later we learn that voters in all 58 counties voted down Prop 1A.

Sounds like it irked more than fiscal conservatives.. how about it irked the voters (the workers, the taxpayers, the out of work EE's) of CA - "we the people."

In the front page analysis, Process is part of the problem, it's the voters who get the paper's (the journalist's) blame for how we got into this mess. (yes, I'm zeroing in one item.)

What's missing is the story explaining to the voters, that it's the news media, papers like the LA Times, that share in the blame as much as anything else. To this date, to the best of my observation, there has not been one single focused news story, nor analysis, nor editorial on the cost of services, etc., of illegal immigrants to the State of CA's budget. I note, that for 2007, Los Angeles County (one county - OK, it's a biggie) announced that they spent for the first time over $1 billion in services for illegal immigrants. Note: that does not include education costs (not funded from the counties).

The LA Times, and the rest of the MSM here in CA, refused to run even a mention of the story - and naturally, in the hundred's of thousands of words printed in this budget crisis - it has not been mentioned. -- Censoring it from the voters --

The voters passed Prop. 187 (ended social services for illegal's) a number of years back (1994), but the silly liberal CA Supreme's, overturned the voters decision.

The voters tried to address the problem - the media and the state legislators did not listen.

During the state legislator's battle to get a compromise (came down to one Republican caving) on the measures, in order to get it on the ballot, I noticed that the LA Times did not run - did not address the - anything on how raising taxes on the poor and lower income and middle income and the recently unemployed out looking for a job, would be impacted if hit with all of these tax increases. Only the day following the legislative vote, did the LA Times finally print a piece suggesting how the wallet would actually be hit -- something like, ' who bears the brunt of this pain.' Then - that was the end of that discussion. The focus was back to the bad conservatives and how they were fighting the tax increases.

Well, either the bad conservatives did darn good in all 58 counties, or the media simply has no clue as to where the people of the state actually stand.

A $billion here, and a $billion there, cut out some of the wasted $billions on fighting supposed global warming/climate change (OK, throw in a little bit of fraud and waste cutting (like overly fat public 'lazy-boy' retirement benefits) -- and wa la. Guess what? CA could almost have it's balanced budget.

Let me comment on that retirement benefit comment. It's time for a change here. School principals who waltz out at age 50-55 with a $100,000 a year pension and fully paid medical, etc. benefits. State workers - LA City EE's (there are stories that need to be repeated - Department of W P - how many folks were making over $100,000 a year?) They leave government (big in City Planning and zoning) - go out to work in the private sector (perhaps a lobbyist in development) then they come back to their old job, more or less, and work for a few years, at a higher salary than before - and take early retirement (based on earnings in last few years - not the long record). Yes, one cannot change what's on the books so easily - but it is time for change for the future. Make 'em work till age 65 to get full pension benefits - (SS is 71).

[Soliel]

I love the LA Times article on how it blames us for the problem and how we want all these services but we don't want to pay them.

Nope, LA Times...you didn't get it right.

First of all...even though I must live frugally, I am not one of the millions who needs "services" ie. money from the state to survive. I am a producer not a taker and us producers are sick and tired of paying for bloating pensions, healthcare of state workers and we are sick and tired of having to pay for illegals the state refuses to deal with.

There is a solution...re write all state contracts to reasonable levels. Most of do not have golden healthcare or pensions...the teachers should pay some for their healthcare and they do not need the huge pensions they get. They can pey into it like everyone else.

I don't earn even close to what they earn...but the state continually asks someone like me to pay their bloated healthcare and salaries. I am not talking about just teachers here but administrators, UC people all of them who want me to constantly fork over MY money so they can live in luxury.

We are sick of it! There is no money! Most of us are earning less AND our investments are fallen. Why on earth should we have to pay for the falling pensions of teachers when no one is helping us? Stop it! It's not fair!

Stop social services to illegals and send them back home...billions! Re write public worker contracts....BILLIONS! Don't ask ME, someone who gets no state benefits whatsoever, for MORE money to pay for those who only take!!!

[Doug Jennings]

The state's budget mess should have a straightfoward solution. Every department -- without exceptioin -- should face a cut commensurate with its proportion in the budget. BUT this should not be an excuse to lay off employees.

Pensions should be reduced, Food stamps reduced, salaries reduced (those paid at the lower end should take more modest reductions. Every recipient of state government funding should participate. Any state employee who objects to a modest cut of 5% to 15% in their pay (which will be gradually restored as state finances improve) is more than welcome to find employment elsewhere.

[sk]

Bad and ineffective leadership by the governor. He's in this for his personal glory and as a stepping stone for the next higher office which is the Senate. All Schwarzenegger's measures and initiatives need to be voted down to show that he can't just get elected using flashing showmanship and empty rhetoric about the "people of California". His first election was accomplished in a sham, unwise manner and people were foolish enough to fall for it. This is what happens when an inexperienced politician is elected with no more leadership capabilities and visions than good looks.

[Dirk Pearson]

Yes, illegal immigration is the problem, wake up California!!!!

Illegal Immigration Costs California Over Ten Billion Annually

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

Just the facts.........

[Joe Rup]

DRILL BABY DRILL You can solve all your budget problems.

[JS]

How dare the voters be blamed for the incompetence of this state's leaders. As mentioned, revenues have soared the past 6 years while the economy and housing markets were strong and citizens were on a spending spree. Lawmakers too went on an irresponsible spending spree with all that extra money instead of saving it for down times.

The state can start by eliminating the Dept of CA Hwy Patrol (CHP). A completely unnecessary state agency that eats up a huge amount of state funds. Counties have Sheriff and most cities have their own PD or hire the Sheriff to provide services. CHP do nothing but harass generally good and law abiding people. We can do without them.

Way too much money is spent on law enforcement and look what it gets us. McArthur Park harassment, Inglewood police shootings are just a couple examples. Trivial traffic enforcement and checkpoints serve no public good. Eliminate these unnecessary police programs and reassign law enforcement to bigger crimes. Giving people tickets for rolling through stop signs at empty intersections or for burnt out license plate lights does not help anyone sleep easier.

State grants should be cut off. Other agencies and cities need to manage their own budgets and not rely on state handouts.

[pterasaur]

Is it surprise that there is a social backlash when the state govt is putting the middle class out of business. ? How dare that LAT times idiot blame the taxpayers for this mess. Time to cut to the bone and start over. With the highest taxes in the country, they can't balance a budget. Get out. With no jobs available, the illegals are going back because the state can't enforce the laws, so the economic downturn is doing it. No one disputes LEGAL immigration, but let;s face it the illegal hordes have ruined this state.. Right on for the voters. It will get worse unless some fixes are made......... PT.

[JR George]

Well, well, well. We in Texas still call KAL E FORNYA the land of fruits and nuts. The land of whinning, complaining, communistic liberals. Reading these post it's clear you loons still don't get it. Why do you think we in Texas are STILL doing so well? Because we get it. KAL E FORNYA has never and will never get it. The problem is still exactly what it was last year, the year before and will be in the future. ENTITLEMENTS AND ILLEGALS!!! I read above where some in KAL E FORNYA still think illegals pay taxes. What morons. Have you ever seen their w-4's and w-2's. They claim the maximum and pay no income taxes. And, because their illegal the fed's can't find them anyway because in theory they don't exist!! Not only that but, in a lot of instances they work for cash and nothing is held back. They cost waaaaaay more than they pay in and have all you morons fooled. That's okay all you KAL E FORNYANS, think what you want and do what you want....Just don't move to Texas!!!!! A state where we are not afraid to bend over and pick up the soap in the shower.....Idiots

[JR George]

Just as I thought. The Los Angeles Slimes wouldn't post this native Texans critique about the land of fruits and nuts. Imagine that.

[SW HARRIS]

How about a 10% decrease in employees. 5000 job to be cut , what a solution. 10% would be 25,000, what a joke. I have cut my speniing 20 % and I think I am lucky.

[L Jones]

It's a sorry way to do business, but I think the sooner this state goes completely bankrupt and loses all ability to borrow the better off we'll be. Why? Our state government has no ability to control itself and a shameless irresponsibility with the citizens money; yes, the citizens money, not their money!

L Jones
Torrance, CA

[Patrick]

Having been born and raised in California I have experienced the ups and downs of the Budget Crisis in this State for 53 years.

It was not that long ago that we had a surplus.

If the voters are to blame for anything it is believing the rhetoric that comes from Sacramento. Remember, it is the politicians in Sacramento that convinced voters to pass those spending bills. They (the politicians) came to the voters with their hand out and the voters believed their lies.

Spending has grown close to 40% under the current Governor. Granted, some of that was through contractual obligation from his predecessor, but he continually said "yes" to programs that we can now not afford.

I worked for the LAUSD for a season in the trades, I personally witnessed such waste I could not believe. The idea of laying off teachers is ludicrous, it's the bureaucracy that needs to be cut. Remember the BB Bond money to repair schools? They had not spent it towards the end of its' tenure and so in order to be able to ask for more, they created a class of managers in the classified trades so as to spend the money so they could ask for more. It did not go to repairs. They openly talked about it behind the scenes in the offices.

Maybe Californians are just plain tired of politicians, teachers unions, and special interest groups always crying wolf.

Maybe we want fiscal responsibility.

Maybe we are finally beginning to realize that the state of California has been enabled by a gullible populace willing to believe the whining of the politicians.

Yes, roads need repair. Yes, we need teachers.

But maybe, just maybe, we can learn to tighten our belt and live without so much government. Even if it hurts.

I certainly hope so.

If the people of California are to be blamed for anything, it would be for voting in a group of free spending politicians who don't understand the concept of restraint or balancing a checkbook.

[r. kerr]

It is a sad day. The people of California cannot continue to live in this anarchy. The State is bankrupt beyond imagination and will not be fixed. We will either slip into Third World status even more than we are now because of greed by smart people and need by poor people, or become a very primitive place to live. The American dream is over because every one thought they could live on credit and live in a McMansion on $80,000 a year.

[Joseph]

I am a middle-class working Hispanic in my 20‘s , and I do agree to a major extent that our "system is broken" resulting in our current State budget crisis. It is not necessarily fair to blame everything on undocumented individuals. However, in a bigger sense of the picture we must focus on each individual problem and create solutions, take for instance healthcare.

Our broken healthcare system is due to the uninsured. Granted that many Hispanics, documented or undocumented are in the lower rungs of the economic system, they are not the only ones to blame. In fact, economic disparity does not know ethnicity, it’s cross-cultural. Let’s face it, most undocumented individuals find work in a variety of jobs that many of us would not dare to aspire, i.e. cleaning toilets, agriculture, among others, and that in the end drives our food costs down. The healthcare disparity comes when undocumented individuals utilize our health system. Well, why don’t we tag in a healthcare tax to those who work those jobs, just to pay off some of the healthcare costs that we all bare. Although it wont resolve the issue it’s a start.

Lets solve issues as Californians, not delve so deep into the problem that we cant foresee any realistic solution.

There are a variety of ethical questions that We as Californians to are left to resolve:

Is there anyway to control birth rates without compromising freedom and integrity? Is creating licensure for reproduction constitutional? I am pretty sure that it is not. However, are there other remedies?

Are Californian tax-payers ready to be taxed further for universal healthcare?

Is the cost vs. benefits scenario of higher taxes really fix our system? Is money-throwing without a substantiated long-term plan an answer to this dilemma?

Can we as Californians bare with placing more caps on welfare? What’s the real cost of decreasing welfare? Increase in crime? Violence? Theft? What other social problems will we be facing? What are the real costs? Or can we decrease financial compensation and housing assistance in our Welfare system, and just provide food and healthcare assistance?

Will extending the capital punishment resolve our economic dilemma, to an extent?

We hear about transparency in current political climate. Well, why not hold California government to provide transparency in costs to all tax paying Californians? I don’t mean some obscure website or a newsletter we receive only when elections are up, but a promoted resource that we can all access to determine where every penny of our taxes is spent?

How about a virtual democracy where we create a clear first hand live chat with our current politicians? And, why not have politicians account for their decisions and actions with written explanation just as judges must explain their rulings?

Why dont current California politicians take a pay-cut, regardless of State Law? If there are going to be financial cuts across the California boards , why do politicians not set the example and take voluntary pay-cuts?

As a Californian I do make a stand that we must fix our system with real solutions. I believe that in California we stand for more than greed, We stand as people who are looking for long-term solutions. I for one demand and expect solutions from Our Representation. If we don’t see results We as Californians must stand together and make sure they don’t hold office next term.

[JustAGuy]

I'm an ex-Californian. I left the state when I saw the insanity emerging. Such a vast and beautiful state, wrecked by insanity with a political agenda. Now I live in a humble plains state. You people call it flyover country. But I've been noticing California licence plates in my city for years. But every time I visiit family back in Los Angeles, I NEVER see out-of-state plates except at tourist spots..

Reminds me of a Bob Marley song....Exodus, movement of the people. If you're fed up with all this nonsense, do as I did and leave! You won't regret it!

[Jenny]

Joseph, you don't mention your status. Are you illegal or the child of an illegal?

The facts are, that illegals aren't coming here to pick crops, some might, but they leave and take citizens jobs, janitorial, construction, roofing, and so many other jobs. They undercut citizens wages, and then demand welfare to subsidize them. Those jobs used to lift citizens out of poverty. Illegals weren't starving or desperate in their home countries, they just figure they can get rich in the US, and they know corrupt politicians will give them a free ride. They aren't working to improve their home countries, they are working to reduce the US to how bad their countries are, they are deliberately seeking to harm American citizens.

Illegals haven't reduced the cost of produce, they have in fact increased the cost. Legal migrants using a visa program used to be paid good wages, and benefits. They'd come for the season, and return home. In '06, farmers decided to fire them, and replace them with cheaper illegal aliens. They'd work for a week or two, and then run off to work construction, then the farmer's screamed for more illegals. The costs of food have quadrupled. Contaminated food, from unprincipled illegals, who don't care have caused food borne illnesses.

Citizens have a legal right to live and work in the US, illegals do not. Citizens have a legal right to use the programs they have paid into their entire lives, illegals do not. Citizens jobs were sent to Mexico, to improve that economy, as Mexico promised it would increase wages and opportunities for it's people. The government has avoided doing so, because Mexicans hate Americans so much, they prefer to harm Americans, than to improve their own home country for future generations. They don't care that they are turning the US into the same type of cesspool they turned Mexico into. They are incompatible with US culture, and could never assimilate, because they don't wish to. They don't respect the law, they don't respect life, they only want to consume, like parasites, and like parasites, they have to be removed by deportation.

California is in the toilet, because of illegals. They are a burden to social welfare programs, housing, they over burden the schools, and demand to be taught, k-12 in Spanish, and they then drop out because they can't be bothered to learn, even in Spanish. The money wasted on ESL is taken away from basic education, no new text books, not enough math and science teachers with degrees. Illegals figure that having more children, brings more welfare, so they keep having them, but they don't bother parenting those children. Their children join gangs, sell drugs and kill citizens, like young Jamiel Shaw Jr., because illegals are racist.

By their presence they drive up the cost of housing, which makes rents too high for citizens struggling on less wages, if they have a job at all.

[WHATHA]

HOMERUN ! ...This is clearly a homerun for all taxpayers to stop further taxes and fees. Out of the park homerun...WHEWWWWWW...

[Alison P]

I think the entire situation is summed up quite neatly by an election that cost the state I don't know how many millions of dollars, attracted a minimum turnout (7.4% in the L.A. precinct where I was a pollworker yesterday), and resulted in the passage of one single ballot initiative of very dubious financial value -- honestly, folks, how much of the budget gap will be closed by denying 120 legislators pay raises in years when there's a budget deficit? $600,000, at $5,000 each? $1.2M, at $10,000 each? Does that savings even offset the cost of the election within Los Angeles, let alone statewide?

The real solution is to end this ridiculousness whereby a 2/3 majority is needed in the legislature to pass a budget, but the California voters can effectively make budget decisions with a 50%+1 majority no matter how low the turnout.

--End the 2/3 budget majority
--Repeal Prop 13
--Enact a truly progressive tax code, not this nickle-and-dime fee system that passes for taxation and hits lower-income Californians disproportionately (11% of income versus 8% for wealthier residents).

To the governor and the CA legislature: Ask me to pay my fair share and I gladly will, as I realize that my safety, freedom, and happiness -- and the stability and prosperity of California -- is directly related to the health, education, and economic opportunities afforded my neighbors and their children.

[Cesar Hechler]

Everyone is pointing fingers at the government but they bitch and moan as soon as the word taxes are mentioned. You want to live in this state? Then expect to be billed for the privilege. The fact that all these stupid propositions have to be issued instead of letting the government do its job is a system run amok and founded in some sort of paranoia.

The people of this state pay some of the lowest taxes in the world but stand there with mouths agape at why they have this colossal debt. Well, proud voters (those 12 of you who showed up at the polls), you just voted to let 6 billion dollars being unused just sit there, doing absolutely nothing. If there was a flood in your basement and you had the choice of 21 gallons per minute coming in versus 15, you would take the 15. But not in the case of the state debt. You voted not to keep the tax rate higher to cover expenses. So, you think you're proud and patriotic but you don't want be a real citizen and pay something for it. Very well done.

And you want to blame illegal immigrants. I can't blame you there, but that is a problem founded in the fact this state was full of Mexicans before it became a state. The only thing that will pull that fat from the fire is recognizing that those people are earning income, give them a partial amnesty so that they pay taxes (but still do not gain any privileges of citizenship since they came illegally) and use the money to cover their expenses. You can talk about walls and other stupid nonsense, but it doesn't address the problem that there are people here already.

Seriously, did anyone bother to read the pros and cons and pay attention to the deficit before voting down these propositions? Lots of specious arguments but ultimately now the problem is worse and you can't keep doing the same pointless exercise over and over and expect success. You had the opportunity to fix the busted wagon and broke the other wheels instead. Well done, Californians...you blockheads.

[James]

I love California and so glad I moved here 2.5 years ago. It is the greatest place to live.

That being said, I see two problems with our current system: the frequency and randomness of the timing of these elections and the ballot measures.

First, we need to only have elections the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November like everywhere else. This will increase voter turnout and participation. The recent mayoral election also had a low voter turnout and timing was part of the problem.

Second, these special elections and countless ballot measures are part of the problem.

We need to allow the government to legislate and then evaluate the effects of their actions. Currently, the system allows them to skirt their responsibility to make difficult and at times unpopular decisions. We can always vote them out of office if we are unhappy with the results, but they need to be forced to make these decisions.

[Sam]

It's completely bizarre that those elected are now going to blame this on the voters for voting NO on those bad propositions. The only bad the voters have done is to elect politicians so worried about their next election they have bankrupted California. Political correctness is SOOOOOO OUT OF VOGUE. Make the CUTS and STOP WHINNING.

[Hick Jr]

19,000 illegals in our jail system! Lets do the math on this shall we? The government estimates that it costs $40k per year annually to house 1 inmate in our jail system. Multiply that by 19k and you have a grand total of $760mm dollars on people who aren't even our own. Who benefits from this? Follow the money.

[Jesus]

Let's see why I do not buy the LA Times. I get tired of hearing only one side of the story. This is what the LA Times is now famous for the only side that matters for them is the Left. That is it, just look at all of the stories they publish, if it does not have something to do about the UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS / ILLEGALS and their plight. Then it is not worth the time for them to publish it. They inflate the figures of those that attended, just look at what happen with the May 1 rallies or Day without an Illegal, I loved that day, No Traffic, wish every day was a day without an illegal. On the other hand when regular American Citizens decided to have Tea Parties to voice their opions about the unfair taxation by the left, the LA TImes decided to not report the true figures. The LA Times reported less and spent the rest of the time berating those that attended. So in my eyes I rather read the news via other more objective sources, something that is actually worth the money and time to read. The LA Times should consider selling their rag right next to those other rags like the National Enquirer and the Star News.

[Jay P]

California needs to go into bankruptcy. Fire all lawmakers, and needs to change ruling party, just like we did on Federal level. Cancel all contracts with all kind of unions. When you think about it, California takes money from poor (workers in private sector), give it to few ruling groups (public employee unions). It is classic Communism system. I think on the Federal level, Obama is doing same thing.

[August]

$60,000 a year spent per homeless person....AND THEY ARE STILL HOMELESS! INSANE!

[Its The Economy, stupid]

Those corrupt and greedy politicians in Sacramento do not have a clue of how to balance a budget. They just think about wasting TAX PAYER money on elaborate trips, expensive wine bottle, gucci suit, rolex watches, and bullshit smiles. I cannot believe that VOTERS waited this long to send a message to these bums who take advantage of the little people. SHAME ON THE GOVERNOR, corrupt and self centered Assembly members and State Senators. Stop bullshiting your constituents and GET TO WORK. TRY LIVING ON MINIMUM WAGE. THAT WOULD BE REAL "SHARED PAIN."

[D Ross]

You can trace it all back to Ronnie Ray-gun, and his “every man for himself,” “pull yourself up by your bootstraps crowd.” You remember that Hollywood dimwit don’t you? You know – the dim-bulb that pushed deregulation of commercial aviation and fired all of the flight controllers.

You can also blame the selfish Prop 13 voters who shirked their duties as contributing members of a just California society.

And, as could be expected, Reagan invoked the law of unintended consequences. Now we get cost cutting regional “airlines” hiring low time left seat pilots making 24K a year. The very fact that the pilot in command makes slightly more than a Mac Donald’s manager speaks volumes.

But then I may be missing the point here. They say, “The market always knows.” Again Ronnie, thanks for the tutelage.

[mikefate]

Why is it we never hear any one talk about changing the Constitution to deny children born in America to illegals citizenship? How much money could be saved just from this across all the US.A

[Robert]

Hello from New York.

It's fascinating to read these news pieces and then the comments by Californians. All your governments and budgets are in serious trouble at a time of economic crisis, and yet, you all seem unable to work together to balance your books.

Here in New York we faced the same problems you do. Higher costs, budget gaps, lowered revenue.

(The reasons might be a bit different. In your state there seems to be a massive loss of tax revenue due to overinflated housing coming back down to real prices, whereas here, Wall Street tax revenues have taken a hit.)

The choice was the same--cut everything that makes our state livable and American, or bite the bullet a bit and balance the books through a combination of federal assistance and taxes/fees that no one likes, but that keep our institutions and governments running, ready, and recognizable.

The result here despite the losses of jobs in financial services and other sectors, has been a stabilization of the economy and the clear sense that these problems can be addressed and resolved.

These are the choices facing people everywhere right now.

Your state looks clearly to be making the wrong choices.

[Mike]

The school superintendent in my small town makes $250,000 a year, with extraordinary health benefits on top of that, and a massive retirement package that all of our kids will be paying for. That's twice what an average college professor makes. When I first drove through the McMansion neighborhoods in our town I was surprised by all the police and fire and public agency vehicles parked there. I was even more surprised when I found out that they weren't there on public business--these are the people who live there. The top 10 municipal officials in our town are all retiring soon with pension packages ranging from $105,000 a year to $196,000 a year--for life, with automatic cost-of-living adjustments and medical insurance. The message from Tuesday's vote was: Enough is enough. The madness must stop.

[aa]

The discussions going on regarding the state of California's budget crisis often point to immigration and other non contributers to the crisis. The magnitude of the problem is basically a lack of funding for the current state programs that have mandated spending allocations from the revenues collected by the state. What is needed is a simple language document showing the entire budget expenditures for each and everything the state spends money for (Maybe the LA Times can draw this up). How can a citizen actually understand the legal language that describes each program without a guide to get beyond that language to what is actually being said? What are the largest program expenditures? How are these expenses tied to either constitutional initiatives or laws passed by the legislature? What are the most important programs that the state must fund? Where is the fat? Is the current political process up to doing the job or is it beyond repair?

[Eric Bostrom]

Not good for anyone.

When the economy goes into recession, revenues to pay for the public services that make a modern country possible dry up. The bigger and longer the recession, the less revenues available to pay for the services that keep the physical infrastructure (highways, bridges, dams, electricity, etc.), schools, health service, courts, the police, fire, and the faceless bureacrats who keep it all working. The public sector freezes hiring, suspends planned pay raises, suspends needed maintenance and improvements, and lays people off (mostly the bright new hires).

So the voters don't want to pay for those things but they don't want them to go away. They say, "just get rid of the waste, the unneeded programs and we won't need to pay anything". Well, mostly that's a myth. The public sector has been shaken, squeezed, and starved for decades and there just isn't any fat to shed, it's all muscle and bone, now.

So what? Look at it this way. Korea provides free internet access that is six times better than the richest most powerful corporations in this country can enjoy because we starve our public sector to avoid having a better operating one.

California is not going to get rich selling fruits and nuts and wine tours to the rest of the world. We need industries that provide the world with better technologies, so that we will remain a significant economy. That means investing in the state which is the public sector.

For now, a lot of highly trained and experienced people are about to join the competition for jobs in the private sector. These are people who are going to be grabbed up as soon as there are jobs for them. They were faceless bureacrats, now they are going to being taking jobs in the private sector.

Eventually, they will be replaced because we need just such well trained and experienced people to provide us with the public sector that will permit California to grow. It'll just take us longer to have what we need.

As for privatizing public services? The toll road in Orange County is a great example, the cheats are avoiding paying in the millions of dollars, requiring a lot more CHP officers to patrol that length to try to retrieve the lost revenues -- taxpaying subsidies for the private sector, again.

[danielle]

WHY DOES NO ONE DARE REVOKE AND REVISE
PROP 13 ? THAT IS WHY WE ARE IN THIS MESS TO
BEGIN WITH- THAT AND OTHER TAXES THAT
CAN BE LEVIED ON OIL LEASES AND CORPORATIONS-
NO NEED TO TAKE FROM THE POOR -
BUT PLEASE CLOSE OUR BORDERS AND RETURN ALL
MEXICANS TO MEXICO- TOO MANY OF THEM
WEIGHING DOWN THE SYSTEM- WHAT HARDSHIP ARE
THEY ESCAPING ANYWAY? HAITIANS HAVE IT WORSE
AND WE DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM - WE SEND THEM
BACK RIGHT AWAY-
GOODBYE TO ASIANS AND MEXICANS AND LATINOS
NO MORE PROBLEMS

[Ailey]

We need to cut the bureaucracy FIRST - the number of people, their pay, pensions and benefits. Spending on state employees - bureaucrats, educrats who never see a classroom, as well as teachers, firefighters, and everything else - has rocketed up far faster than inflation and population growth. Meanwhile, we get fewer services. Net result - more and better paid bureaucrats and public employees, but fewer services and tax increases for the rest of us.

And, for all the sturm and drang, the current planned budget is FLAT to last year, not down. So with spending staying flat, and taxes going up, we are to see our services cut?

I say - throw out half the state employees, and mandate that most cuts come from the administrative ranks, rather than the people who actually provide (some, inefficient) services. Then demand productivity gains every year, just as the private sector does - no more automatic pay increases without productivity increases.

California is being run for the benefit of the public unions and the politicians in thrall to them - we need to take back our state!

[I Just Don't Understand]

Is it true that legions of poor people are spending thousands of dollars to be smuggled into the United States to collect public assistance?

Is it true that California's budget deficit is not due to the recession in the economy but to the tens of millions of undocumented people who are using up all the State's revenues?

Are California businessmen reducing their costs for labor and for providing safe working conditions and following government regulations by using undocumented workers who keep their mouths shut eagerly seeking undocmented laborers?

Let's say we expell all those undocumented workers? Won't those same business people offer the same workers those same jobs if they can sneak back?

Maybe we can end all of this demand for undocumented workers? How about invalidating all union contracts, repealing all regulations of products, repeal all worker safety laws, eliminate all pension plans, health plans, paid vacations and holidays for all people who work in California? Make California workers cheap and desperate so they will take all those jobs that are being offerred to the undocumented? What is the alternative? Won't all those businesses be forced to leave the state, otherwise?

Of course not.

The people who voted against these propositions thought that raising their taxes or cutting their benefits was unacceptable. They think that they are not going to lose anything if the state's services are eviscerated by lack of funding. That the State's government is a horrible drain upon the vitality of society that only serves the free loaders and undeserving.

Well, there is a big diminishment in revenues because we are in the deepest and longest recession since WWII. That's why there is trouble and why the cuts that come next are going to be pretty severe.

When we need the government the most, we are seeing it being made less able to help us.

[Black Saint]

Our Politicians keep telling us our Immigration laws are broken and we need an comprehensive solution, which are code words for Amnesty, our Immigration Laws are not broken, they just have not been enforced, what is broken is our Political system when we elect Corrupt/Pandering politicians that puts their desires ahead of the Constitution of USA and the Rule of Law!

Our government fails the most basic and primary task & duty of government, to protect this Nation and its Citizens from invasion and enforce its laws.

They refuse to abide by our Constitution, refuse to enforce our Immigration Laws and refuse to honor their Oath of Office!

Our Government, past & present, Republican & Democrat, have allowed the invasion of 20 to 30 million criminals and uneducated peons which is the largest invasion of any Nation, at any time, by any means & in direct violation of Article IV, Section IV of our Constitution.

This refusal to abide by our Constitution or enforce our Immigration Laws should be classified as Treason of the most foul kind, & as grounds for impeachment & trials for Treason!

Not only have they allowed the invasion, they force American tax payers to pay Billions on Billions of dollars to provide Welfare, Prison cells, Educate the invaders numerous children, and free medical care, at the same time the invading horde break numerous laws and massive document fraud, & are destroying our schools, hospitals, communities, culture and standard of living while Robbing, Raping, Killing & Assaulting American Citizens at an rate the terrorist can only dream about.

Recent statements in Mexico from both President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary something needs to be done. "Our inability to prevent weapons from being illegally smuggled across the border to arm these criminals causes the deaths of police officers, soldiers, and civilians," she said.

But no mention, concern or care that their refusal to stop the Massive Invasion of Illegal Aliens pouring across our borders or enforce our immigration laws that causes an estimated 25 Americans deaths per day and 10,s of thousands victims of Assault, Robberies, Rapes, Identify thief, and other assorted crimes committed by the invading horde of Illegal Aliens from Mexico on American citizens each year!

Most of our Politicians in Wash. DC are wading knee deep in innocent American blood and suffering because they put Politics ahead of the welfare of American Citizens & the future of this Nation!

The Welfare vote for the Democrats to further their Socialist Agenda and the Slave Labor for their Pay Masters in the Chamber of Commerce & Business for the Republicans is more important to our Corrupt power mad Politicians than the lives and safety of Americans citizens!

The Citizens of this great Nation have not sacrificed with blood, sweat & tears for over 200 years & obeyed the Laws of the land, paid the taxes, and fought the wars & built this Nation to see Corrupt politicians turn this Nation into the United States of Mexico without a shot being fired, to serve their demented, nefarious goals and lust for power!

[Black Saint]

California the Golden state, is fast becoming the poster child for an bankrupt third world State!

An unholy alliance of Socialist Democrat politicians, Unions, and Illegal Aliens supporters are feasting at the trough of tax payers paid benefits while taxing & regulating business and the tax paying public into poverty.

The pandering of Left Wing Democrat Politicians to their constituency of Illegal Aliens, open border supporters, and unions are driving business and citizens to other states & countries, while leaving the parasites & welfare leeches in an increasing bankrupt, dysfunctional state!

For years California has ignored economics 101 and imported poverty, Criminals and uneducated Peons from Mexico, while exporting business and educated working tax payers.

Like all Socialist & Marxist States the results have been an lowing of living standards, tax receipts & finally bankruptcy.

Failure to abide by our Constitution against invasion & enforce our Immigration laws and constraints on wages and benefits for public employees will result in turning the Golden State into MexiCalif and the end of the California dream!

The policies of Obama and Wash. DC Democrats are intent on following Calif. policies and are resulting in the same creeping socialist process across American.

Amnesty & Citizenship as a reward for their invasion of the USA, will result in the rest of the USA turned into a Spanish speaking third world cesspool, modeled on Mexico and follow California into a polluted, over populated, Spanish speaking third world Nation of Crime, Corruption, Poverty, & Misery!

This will result in a population depending on Welfare and the Democrat party, thus assuring the lock on power for the Socialist Democrat party of the United States of Mexico!

[Black Saint]

There's the "the U.S. stole the southwest" argument.

Well, the land in dispute was "owned" by Spain for a couple of centuries. Then by Mexico for about 25 years. During these periods, there weren't more than a few thousand Spaniards or Mexicans in the entire territory. It's been owned by the U.S. for about 160 years now, much longer than Mexico's reign. And the U.S. has actually done something with the land, made it habitable for tens of millions. The difference between American and Mexican "twin cities" straddling the border is like night and day, yet the land is obviously the same. It's not the dirt that's important, it's the people. Put another way, if culture didn't matter, Mexico and Central America would be paradise.

Then there is they are all God,s children argument.

Isn't everyone God,s children? If so, then guess the open borders crowd are saying everyone and anyone has the right to Invade this Nation, waving their flags, demand their rights, while feasting at the trough of public welfare and Kill, Rape and Rob thousands of American citizens each year! There are 100,s of millions probably billions from India, China, Africa, etc. that would like to immigrate to the USA. If it ok for Latinos to pour across our borders then unless the open borders crowd are racist it should be ok for any and all of the world people no matter their Education, Religion, Race, Criminal convictions, Diseases, or Terrorist ties to invade this nation & be rewarded with American citizenship!

There's the "lettuce" argument

We'll be paying $50/head if we don't have illegal aliens working in the fields. As Phil Martin, ag economist at UC Davis shows, the field labor cost in a $1 head of lettuce is about 6 cents. Triple those wages and Americans will do the jobs. (They're not career positions. They're seasonal jobs for young people, starting in the world of work. I have did similarly menial jobs.) And you'll be paying 10% more for lettuce and other produce. Do you spend $1,000/year on produce? OK, you'll pay $100 more.

The lettuce argument also parallels that for the retention of slavery.

Immigrant Argument!

There's the "everyone's an immigrant except for the 'Native Americans'" argument. Well, the American Indians didn't sprout from the land, they came across the Bering land bridge from Asia. So if the criterion is "You're an immigrant if you had an ancestor who immigrated here," then American Indians are immigrants, too.

In that case, "immigrant" is no longer a useful word, since Everyone's an immigrant.

Illegal pay taxes Argument!

There's the "illegal aliens pay tons of taxes" argument. Sure, they all pay real estate taxes (in rent) and sales taxes (most states). Those working on the books (typically using stolen Social Security numbers) pay FICA and, perhaps, income taxes. But they're mostly ill-educated and low-skilled and pay very low taxes connected to their working -- in fact, most claim the Earned Income Tax Credit, i.e. negative income tax! If a family with both parents working has two kids in school, that's at least $15k/year just for schooling, way more than the taxes on, say, $35k/year aggregate income.

Robert Rector at the Heritage Foundation has done the systematic accounting on all this. A typical household headed by a low-skilled illegal alien is a net drain of about $20k/year for the rest of us, year after year. (Low-skilled Americans are a similar burden, but they're part of the national family, not gate crashers from other societies.)

Illegal Bad..Amnesty good Argument!

There's the "illegal immigration is bad, but make them citizens and problem solved" argument. Nope. If that were the case, legalizing (i.e. amnestying) the illegal aliens would solve the problem. But they'd still be (on average) low-skilled workers whose burden on the rest of us would continue. In fact, once legal they'd be able to access more public benefits programs, so their cost to the rest of us would actually rise substantially. In addition to bringing in their relatives under chain immigration in a never ending chain! In short, all of the problems of mass illegal immigration are shared & increased by mass amnestying them.

Then there is the straw man Argument this Nation cannot afford to deport 12 million people!

Never noting if our Politicians had abide by our Constitution and enforced our Laws there would not be 12 millions to deport. Even worse, there is not 12 million but between 20 and 30 million but the government prefers to lie and down play the number! ( Same as the 1986 Amnesty was more than double the government estimate, so will this one be) At any rate deportation would save billions in the long run over what they will cost this Nation in welfare in the coming years. Every person with less that a high school education cost a average of 55 thousand over their life time, so apply that times the 12 million plus all their relatives & their relatives in a never ending chain & deportation would be a great bargain and save billions if not trillions in the coming years! But deportations is not necessary, just close our borders and enforcing our Laws with E-Verify. Fine companies, imprison executives and cut out the welfare they will self deport. No jobs, No Welfare equals no Illegal Aliens!

The flood of immigrants drives wages and living conditions in our central cities toward those of the Third World & has already destroyed Calif..

This tidal wave imposes sprawl, gridlock, pollution, and environmental damage on our metropolitan areas & Nation.

Immigrant families needing services overwhelm our schools, taxpayer-funded health care facilities, and other public agencies.

Those requiring services don’t assimilate and, instead, expect to be served in their native languages.

American civic culture frays as each ethnic group establishes its own grievance lobby and pushes for preferences.

Communicable diseases such as tuberculosis (new, drug-resistant strains) return.

Shortages of water and other resources loom, especially in immigration-blitzed Southwest.

Most that come across our open borders come from countries where, Crime, Corruption, Poverty, Misery, Anti-education, and hate for Americans has existed for centuries and is normal. Should anyone be surprised they bring those same family values across the border with them?

[Black Saint]

It is estimated that to provide Medical, Welfare, Schooling. Jail cells etc. for the invading horde of Criminals & Uneducated third world rejects from Mexico and South American is costing Calif. Tax payers 16 billion per year! Yet no discussion from the Corrupt/Pandering Politicians either at the State or Federal level about addressing it, except rewarding them with Amnesty for Invading this Nation and breaking numerous Laws that would get a American Citizen fined and in prison! It is past time to start holding those Corrupt Politicians accountable & demand they Abide by or Constitution against Invasion and enforce our Immigration Laws!

[Black Saint]

California the Golden state, is fast becoming the poster child for an bankrupt third world State!

An unholy alliance of Socialist Democrat politicians, Unions, and Illegal Aliens supporters are feasting at the trough of tax payers paid benefits while taxing & regulating business and the tax paying public into poverty.

The pandering of Left Wing Democrat Politicians to their constituency of Illegal Aliens, open border supporters, and unions are driving business and citizens to other states & countries, while leaving the parasites & welfare leeches in an increasing bankrupt, dysfunctional state!

For years California has ignored economics 101 and imported poverty, Criminals and uneducated Peons from Mexico, which increased Medical, Welfare, Crime, Prison, etc. & adding a estimated 16 billion per year to Calif. State expense to provide for the invading horde of Illegal Aliens, while exporting business and educated working tax payers.

Like all Socialist & Marxist States the results have been an lowing of living standards, tax receipts & finally bankruptcy.

Failure to abide by our Constitution against invasion & enforce our Immigration laws and constraints on wages and benefits for public employees will result in turning the Golden State into MexiCalif and the end of the California dream!

The policies of Obama and Wash. DC Democrats are intent on following Calif. policies and are resulting in the same creeping socialist process across American.

Amnesty & Citizenship as a reward for their invasion of the USA, will result in the rest of the USA turned into a Spanish speaking third world cesspool, modeled on Mexico and follow California into a polluted, over populated, Spanish speaking third world Nation of Crime, Corruption, Poverty, & Misery!

This will result in a population depending on Welfare and the Democrat party, thus assuring the lock on power for the Socialist Democrat party of the United States of Mexico!

[Brittanicus]

I really enjoy reading the comments, mainly about the illegal immigration occupation of California. But very few people actually is inspired enough to change the chaos.

IMMIGRATION LAWS ARE NOT BROKEN, JUST NOT ENFORCED! So enforce the 1986 Simpson/Mazzoli bill, the Immigration Reform & Control Act as enacted. Offer your support to Rep.Shuler (D-NC) on his gov website. Phone: 828-252-1651 and Senator Sessions (R-AL) (256) 533-0979

[Jj]

I am looking to migrate to Canada! The sad thing is my wife finally recieved her green card after 10 years of delay and red tapes and she was in the USA legally. I am going to relocate my business and leave this Mexifornia!