Raids net alleged members of tagger crew that hit L.A., Las Vegas

Los Angeles County sheriff’s deputies today arrested at least eight alleged members of the notorious Metro Transit Assassins tagging crew, some of whom are believed to be responsible for a several-blocks-long “MTA” tag in the concrete Los Angeles River bed that authorities say will cost millions of dollars to remove.

The arrests occurred during a series of early-morning raids centered in the Hollywood area. Among those detained for a parole violations is a famous tagger whose work “SMEAR” has has won acclaim in the art community.

Those arrested were booked on suspicion of vandalism, drug possession, narcotics for sales, weapons possession and other parole violations, officials said

"These individuals are responsible for tags not only in Los Angeles but Las Vegas and San Francisco,” said Sheriff’s Cmdr. Dan Finkelstein, who is chief of the Metropolitan Transit Authority police. “The Army Corps of Engineers estimates that removing the "MTA" tag from the riverbed alone will cost $3.7 million.

Cleaning graffiti from the river is far more expensive than cleaning other areas. Officials use high-pressure water spray to remove the toxic paint.

But hazardous-materials crews must then dam and capture all the paint and water runoff to prevent it from getting into the river. The crew did an additional $20,000 worth of damage to transit vehicles and facilities. Finkelstein said the Los Angeles River "MTA" tag, in a vast industrial district east of downtown between two rail yards, took about 400 gallons of paint -- 300 gallons white and 100 gallons black. “It took them four nights to do it,” he said.

The three block letters cover a three-story-high wall and run the length of several blocks between the 4th Street and 1st Street bridges. The tagging crew, which is also known as “Melting Toys Away” and “Must Take All,” began about the time the transportation agency began using the MTA letters. Investigators say they have statements, including some on video, that implicate some of the crew members in the enormous tag.

“Some of this group could face federal charges,” Finkelstein said. During the raids, Finkelstein said, investigators found customized high-pressure fire extinguishers that, when filled with paint, allow the tagger to hang upside down on the underside of a freeway and quickly scrawl massive graffiti. These taggers are not kids, he said.

Most those detained are in their 20s; one of them drives a $60,000 BMW, and another member possesses a diamond-and-ruby-encrusted Metro logo pendant with paperwork suggesting it's worth $29,000, Finkelstein said.

-- Richard Winton

Photo: Police car shows scale of the giant "MTA" tag in the Los Angeles River in May 2008. Credit: Al Seib / Los Angeles Times

Comments

[CR]

Seems there are more harmful tags in LA than these. The paint in the river looks better than just a monotonous gray scar running through the city. I actually enjoy staring out the window when pulling out of Union Station. Also, it seems like these guys can't win. If they get the legal blessing of the county, their work gets whitewashed (a la the arroyo seco incident a couple years back) and if they do it illegally, the face federal charges.

[d0d0ng]

Cars and properties of these vandals should be expropriated by the city or state to recover the cleanup cost of graffittis.

[JpR]

someone is going to make a movie of this.

[Mark]

Chopping off their hands sounds like a fair punishment to me.

[JCS]

They deface and damage other people's property in the name of art. It's not art, it's nothing more than ego based, childish graffiti, usually nothing more than their moniker, or the tagger group's name. If they're artists, let them find another medium that doesn't encroach on others.

[Allen Braun]

I agree with "d0d0ng". Seize their property and bank account. Garnish their wages. That would only put a small dent in the repair bill, but should give pause to others.

[Dave]

$3.7 million??????
I will underbid that for 3.5 right now.

[Christopher]

If we don't have enough room in California prisons for these vandals, let's send them to China. I suspect they are not soft on graffiti artists and other social parasites over there.

[Dan who Knows All]

It will cost millions? That's why governments will doom us all. Paint over it. I'll do it for only one million.

[Sal B]

$3.7 million to remove the paint? Why not just paint over it with non-toxic paint to cover it up, and leave it where it is. Would that cost $3.7 million as well?

Seems ridiculous to remove it, since some other vandals will just come in and paint it when they've got a nice clean surface again. Instead, just deface it.

[nmoore6676]

I agree, as a person who works with graphics that a lot of the tagging is quite artistic. I believe that the problem is that there are ancillary activates, drugs and all, that accompany the activity. That combined with the fact that it is vandalism because they are decorating without the owner's permission is why the authrities want to stop it. I am not sure how we can resolve it but I do appreciate the artistic nature of it, just not the low life creepos who just scrawl their initials all over though.

[economics]

By the BY, The adult taggers- an oxymoron, need to be charged for the clean up. It's unfortuant that tax payers have to pay for the jail time, judges, lawyers, etc. I mean, bad parenting cost as much as a bad war.

[Matt]

Cost millions to remove? How does it cost anywhere near $1,000,000 dollars to remove a large area of paint from concrete... not even getting into whether or not it looks better than the industrial grey, but MILLIONS of dollars to remove? Is the new base minimum for any city work being done $1,000,000? I want to see some specific numbers here.

[ChaChi]

Looks like the Army Corp of Engineers is really CLEANING up on this one!

[dane Koncan]

Really, 3.7 million dollars to remove the white and black paint in the LA river. I ask you... Does the water line ever reach the height of the letters. NO! The MTA logo on the LA river should stay. It does not pose any real threat to the environment and at a time like this we do not need to spend 3.7 million to remove the paint. Grandfather it.

[Jason]

Why even bother removing it? Other than it being "toxic paint" (isn't all paint toxic? considering how nasty the LA river is I don't think it would make a big difference), i can think of many other places that 3.7mill would be better spent.

I hope they are planning on milking these guys for every penny they have...

[rcs]

let them spend their lives working off the restitution to the citizens who have to put up with their blight.

[Randy]

Save the LA River and ocean life. Why should any sentient being have to contend with the toxic run-off? Yes, water does reach it as rain leaches the chemicals out of the concrete and floods scour the paint. Where's the art in a black and white block letter sign? It's a dumb.ss idea and was thrown up by a dumb.ss crew.

[j. Lazarte]

3.7 million??
Does that include the overpaid state workers' salaries?

[that wrong - let the artist be]

graffiti is the art of the urban soul, these artist should have a place to create their art. The L.A. River is a good way to leave these people to practice their form of art. let them be go after the real crooks - the financiers that put is in this depression.

[CJ]

I agree with "dodong" too... I don't think it would cost millions of dollars to clean up, it probably only cost them $100 worth of paint to do the work...If these guys really want to paint something then make them paint over it and clean it up. and make them pay for the material to clean it up, so nothing comes out of the cities budget. and if they can not pay for it then garnish their wages, taxes and so on. if thy are under the age of 18 then garnish their parents wages...

[Larry Parker]

It is completely idiotic to remove the paint. There are millions of gallons of painted lane markings on roads in California. Those are OK to leave, and so is the grafitti. $3.7 million? No wonder govermnents are all in the red.

[John]

Thay are NOT "tagging." They are VANDALIZING.

[Bjorn Toulousse]

Props to those MTA kids, what a beautiful piece. The real crime is the paving of the LA River to prevent flooding in the first place. Condors used to live there. It's pathetic that people want blood and Taliban-Congolese style torture and vengeance for simply applying SOME PIGMENT to a concrete surface. OH NO! someone changed a COLOR!!! All these "Citizens" screaming for blood because someone defaced "their" property are fools. I hope Google earth gets a shot before the DPW or whatever you got down there spends a retarded amount of the taxpayer's money to return the riverbank to the color Jos Stalin would approve of. Keep it uniform - keep the landLORDS. happy Gritos from Frisco -stay up.

[Lysette]

The real crime is that the Army Corps claim it will cost them $3.7 million to remove it from the river bed walls. Give us all a break and stop insulting our intelligence. Isn't it the Army that invoices $20 for a roll of toilet paper? I agree with the first post, CR, that these guys can't seem to win even when given a legal place to paint. And I, too, enjoy the view of the river with the addition of these urban pieces.

[Bjorn Toulousse]

Props to those MTA kids, what a beautiful piece. The real crime is the paving of the LA River to prevent flooding in the first place. Condors used to live there. It's pathetic that people want blood and Taliban-Congolese style torture and vengeance for simply applying SOME PIGMENT to a concrete surface. OH NO! someone changed a COLOR!!! All these "Citizens" screaming for blood because someone defaced "their" property are fools. I hope Google earth gets a shot before the DPW or whatever you got down there spends a retarded amount of the taxpayer's money to return the riverbank to the color Jos Stalin would approve of. Keep it uniform - keep the landLORDS. happy Gritos from Frisco -stay up.

[Gina]

There is a difference between gang graffiti and art. This is art. I'd also love to point out to everyone that if we hadn't trapped the river in concrete in the first place, destroying its natural beauty, maybe people wouldn't feel inclined to attempt to make it more colorful. I think the city can find a better way to spend 'millions' of dollars.

[El Gato Malo]

If it isn't removed, it will slowly leach its toxins into the ocean over the next decade or so. If it is removed improperly, then the toxins all wash down the river at once. Either way, the fish in the bay will be even more toxic than they already are.

Leaving the tag would only encourage more tagging. Remove it and seize the assets of those responsible to help pay for the removal. When taggers start seeing actual consequences for getting caught, they'll stop tagging.

[playa]

How about planting giant glue traps by blank walls to hold the taggers until the police arrive? I am quite liberal on other matters but this such a disgrace to all of our society.

[D-Scrimination]

It's baffling and almost disgusting how much taxpayers'money is spent by the City of L.A. attempting to wipe out a subculture that will ALWAYS exist.

It's not going to end. You can't put clamps on people's "self-expression". Yes...intensely painful the truth can be at times.

You know...

It truly is a boggling of the mind trying to rationalize why law enforcement officials are so determined (MILLIONS are invested to create a graffiti task force unit) to "try" to put a hault to this art form.

In case someone didn't notice, there are thieves, murderers, pedophiles, and violent offenders roaming the streets of L.A. that deserve at least a 1/3 of the attention graffiti artists/vandals are receiving.

Bizarre...and so

Sickening.

[99centz]

like the gun law'z,make them have a 7 day period before they can buy paint

[Mark]

Many of these taggers are drug or alcohol addicts, and some are addicted to the tagging itself, just like some people are addicted to behaviors like gambling, food or sex. That does'nt excuse it, it just explains why some of the taggers do it--they're compulsive. The chemical highs they get from their own brains interfere with their judgment and retard the physical development of their brains, leaving them in a permanent state of semiadolescence, just as alcohol or drugs do. They need legal consequences, but many also need treatment.

[D-Scrimination]

It's baffling and almost disgusting how much taxpayers'money is spent by the City of L.A. attempting to wipe out a subculture that will ALWAYS exist.

It's not going to end. You can't put clamps on people's "self-expression". Yes...intensely painful the truth can be at times.

You know...

It truly is a boggling of the mind trying to rationalize why law enforcement officials are so determined (MILLIONS are invested to create a graffiti task force unit) to "try" to put a hault to this art form.

In case someone didn't notice, there are thieves, murderers, pedophiles, and violent offenders roaming the streets of L.A. that deserve at least a 1/3 of the attention graffiti artists/vandals are receiving.

Bizarre...and so

Sickening.

[Anonymous]

Thank You cops. But, I wonder what would be there punishments? I tend to hear that people who commit this kind of vandalism tend not to get harsh punishments . They should do something about the taggers of L.A. Clean L.A.

[Nani]

Why not write "Ride" in front of "MTA"...seems like free advertising to me.

[PAUL OLIVAS]

If it's worth 3.7 million, why would you get rid of it?

[simple]

Let those eight who are arrested take the graffiti off with their own hands. They know how to come up with good tools to paint them. So let them come up with good tools to unpaint them. I bet no one else knows better than them how to undo the graffiti.

[gnarsincharge]

Do they think removing it is going to help? HAHAHA! Since when does the city remove graffiti? they just paint over it! A dull gray should suffice - to mach the dull gray concrete and dull gray buildings. I think there should be more programs sponsoring urban art. they would cost less than $3.7 million and give Graffiti artists (they are artists whether you like it or not) a positive outlet to do what they love. hate on it all you want, but in the long run its going to cost a lot less than all the repetitive graffiti removal. We need to give these people something to do - it might as well be positive! Removing it is another $3.7 million down the drain!

[Agnostic Free Thinker]

Part of the punishment for these idiots should be spending a great deal of time on a work detail cleaning up graffiti. Sentance them to 5 years in prison and make them work 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year cleaning off graffiti in Los Angeles. Actually, that seems like a good idea for a lot of convicts -- it will get them out of prison for 8 hours a day and L.A. will have a lot less graffiti. The courts should also fine them up the wazoo to help offset some of the costs of graffiti cleanup.

[Asia One]

They have a ton of graffiti all over Europe and i dont believe their economy is suffering because of spending millions of dollars to cover it up. it is endangering anyone, no, is it bothering anyone no. if the city was smart they would hire these artists and others like them so we would have something cool to look at as we cruz down the freeway or sit it in like a parking lot. who cares if it is "legal" or not. there is a lot worse things people could be doing than graffiti. create legal walls and spaces, government sanctioned property where people can get their rocks off by painting. if u dont understand it is because u are either to damn old to remember what it feels like, or live in fear of ?, or dont bother to deal with the fact that people, young and old want to paint and will do it by any means necessary.

[Sean Socco]

Graphitti haters need to start findng something important to care about. That anybody would even consider 3.7mil to clean this up should be a wake up call. Stop worrying about paint and start worrying about poverty, climate change, you know, things that actually make life f-ed up for people. Graff is either a kid's issue or an art issue - it's not a legit criminal or city budget issue. As far as city beautification, I get more annoyed by advertising and the dirt from pollution.

Did you hear that Los Angeles just stopped being the nation's number 1 city for murals? And you guys are busy trying to hate on the next generation of muralists. Shame...

Having said that, props to SABER, MTA, even CUATRO FLATS for going big.

[dj]

Give me a break. Have you taken a look at the River? And the surrounding area? It's a concrete jungle. The paint gives it character. If it didn't Hollywood movie studios would not use the area as backdrops for their movies. So it's ok for Shepard Fairy and Mister Brain Wash to do illegal street art but because it's celebrated they don't get arrested and charged for the same crime? Have you seen how many Obey The Giant and Obama Hope/Progress wheatpastes are all over the city on utility boxes, billboards, walls, street posts?? That stuff is all illegal and falls under the same crime. 3.7million is pushing it. That's the government pocketing your money.

[JR]

Taggers and their Supporters, are responsible for the trashy look LOS ANGELES has. They should have their houses defaced constantly to see what it's like to have others disrepect their property. Fines and imprisonment is the not the answer for these people. Los Angeles Legislators should enact a corporal punishment system to correct these punks and straighten them with harsh labor. This is the type of corrective action they been missing from their parents from a young age. If discipline does not come from the parents then the government should intervene and be the ones enforcing mutual respect for others and their property.

[InTheRiver]

We're actually doing a lot of work around the river right now; widening 1st street bridge for the light rail gold line going over it. No one really minds the graffiti, although it is an eye sore, because it sits right under an MTA (the real one with the buses) stock yard. So instead of wasting almost 4 million in clean up fees of federal tax payers' money, they can just leave it be. It will seriously take some other tagging crew a few weeks before they spray it all up again anyway. I'm not kidding when I say that we were replacing part of the channel that got demolished for foundation and the temporary plywood we put up for a parapet wall was tagged up before we were even finished.

Anyone who knows the area knows that it is a free for all when it comes to these types of activities. It's not uncommon to access the river for work purposes and see half a dozen vagrants wandering around inside.

Still, those guys need to be punished. I mean, seriously, 29 grand in an MTA charm? You know they are doing something illegal to afford that!

[FAR LEFT]

WE SHOULDNT HAVE TRIALS ANYMORE..................

LETS JUST ASSUME EVERYONE IS GUILTY.

DAMN THESE HOOLIGANS!

[InTheRiver]

Just to clear things up a bit, its not the City of LA spending money on this. The LA River is Army Corps of Engineer funded; Federal Government.

[W]

My letter to the governor:

As a Los Angeles native, graffiti has been a constant eyesore. Using so much money to pay for removing graffiti has to be a burden on California, local cities and communities.
I understand there are age limits to prevent minors from purchasing spray paint, but it does not seem to reduce the amount of tagging/graffiti in my city. I also recently read an article on latimes.com about one fo the largest groups associated with graffiti, the MTA tagging crew; most of the members were adults, not underage kids.
As new or higher taxes and budgets are considered, I urge you to strongly consider a spray paint tax of $.50 per can or more. The spray paint tax revenue can be used specifically for graffiti cleanup in California. Additionally, raising fines for taggers would help alleviate the financial burden of cleanup. A tiered fine system with no ceiling can further punish multiple offences and even deter taggers from continuing to break the law. Adding hours of community service to clean up graffiti can also give offenders an idea of what it takes to clean up their own mess. Who knows, after a full day of painting over or washing out graffiti, those taggers may not have the energy to go out in the middle of the night to add more graffiti to our streets.
Businesses and parents would be impacted immediately, but it's time for us to keep our city clean, beautiful and improve the quality of life here in California. This is not only a Los Angeles problem. I have seen so much graffiti in San Francisco, Oakland, San Diego and Orange County. Some may consider it art, but I think a poll will tell you that the majority of citizens consider it an eyesore and does more harm than good in any community. Residential and commercial values have a better chance to improve once the graffiti is removed.
Doing nothing improves nothing. Thank you for making this e-mail process easy and I remain hopeful that our state can recover from these difficult times.

[Steve E.]

Confiscate the BMW. If not, tell me where I can find it so I can give them a taste of what they've been forcing on us. And to Bjorn Toulousse: since you like grafitti so much, I suppose you wouldn't mind a little tagging on YOUR car, house and neighborhood. What's your address, sir?

[Curious Observer]

Taggers are not artists! they're law breakers that deface private property and kill responsibile citizens that interfere or try to stop them. The comments expressed genereally consider these tagger's to be 'kool' and not really harming anyone. Not so! Besides killing people, they kill any semblance of pride a community may otherwise have. Most tagger's are or will become gangmembers. Until the general public begins viewing them as what they are, scum, they'll continue on their merry task.

[JJ]

Graffitti is art. My rides home from Union Station have been made much more colorful and interesting due to those pieces. I highly doubt that spending 3.7 million to cover it up will deter any other crew from creating their own piece of art on a clean slate. Why not use non-toxic paint and let the artist beautify what was once a place of natural beauty. There, a win-win situation for all and then maybe the city can use that money for something that will actually make a difference.....but then again, maybe they won't.

[Big Dog]

Some of you are straight up sick. Chopping hands off for some paint on a wall? garnish all their stuff? Do you guys ever think how its like from the other side..? You guys are the evidence that this government is doing a wonderful job at brainwashing you. 3.7 million to remove is that right? wait, wait a minute.. California is neck-deep in debt and they are planning on erasing some paint with that money...And your government is going to send IOU's to you suckers eating up all their stories. Also, you're blaming graffiti writers for toxic waste in the LA river? please!.. Have you dimwits ever even walked by the LA river? seen the dye factories? the waste draining directly to the river? That MTA roller is by far the least of the oceans worries. Do you know how many toxins are on the streets alone? what do you think happens when it rains...all of your waste you throw, your rubber deteriorating from your car, all ya'll are hypocrites. Just following this countries twisted laws. Raiding guys that just paint on walls...while the murderers and rapist run around the city with no worries. All the city is doing is making it LOOK safe...remember that.

[Big Dog]

Some of you are straight up sick. Chopping hands off for some paint on a wall? garnish all their stuff? Do you guys ever think how its like from the other side..? You guys are the evidence that this government is doing a wonderful job at brainwashing you. 3.7 million to remove is that right? wait, wait a minute.. California is neck-deep in debt and they are planning on erasing some paint with that money...And your government is going to send IOU's to you suckers eating up all their stories. Also, you're blaming graffiti writers for toxic waste in the LA river? please!.. Have you dimwits ever even walked by the LA river? seen the dye factories? the waste draining directly to the river? That MTA roller is by far the least of the oceans worries. Do you know how many toxins are on the streets alone? what do you think happens when it rains...all of your waste you throw, your rubber deteriorating from your car, all ya'll are hypocrites. Just following this countries twisted laws. Raiding guys that just paint on walls...while the murderers and rapist run around the city with no worries. All the city is doing is making it LOOK safe...remember that.

[mmmkit]

$3.7 million? Which government entity came up with that figure? Just put some sealant over it, and move on. Clean it up, and someone will paint it again. There's no way to stop these clowns. They get busted as men, while smaller kids are growing up, thinking that tagging is cool. So put a sealer on it. That will cost much less, and take care of the ecological problem.

[Call me Cassandra]

What's up with media and law enforcement referring to criminal gangs as "crews"? That sounds like something they call themselves. Call them what they are -- criminal gangs. Nothing romantic there. And instead of calling it "tagging" -- which makes it seem kind of fun and benign -- call it what it is, consistently: vandalism.

These criminals are like a bunch of old tom cats -- p***ing on everything in sight to mark their territory. Some people may find their lack of respect "artistic" -- until a wall or an object they own or value is defaced.

[Mall * Wart]

Ladies and gentlemen, we "taggers"* are not all kids. We are fully employed taxpayers, parents, and homeowners, so put away your stereotypes. We've done it since the caveman days and we'll do it after your are dead. We do it because it's painfully obvious that it's the right thing to do. Catch us, beat us, fine us, incarcerate us, cut off our hands, but BAM! we won't stop. The US is a puritanical state that is totally behind the times when it comes to art - we always have been. Look at Barcelona and Berlin where graffiti is a bonus feature, not a negative. We're not going back to the 50's so forget about your hope that LA can become a pristine utopia. Look around, the place is crawling with human beings, and human beings do graffiti (and drugs, and a lot of things to get through this thing, this double-edged gift, called life).

*I am not affiliated with MTA or any crew in LA.

[Eric draven]

As a artist who has in fact talked with, and painted with (in a gallery setting) the artist known as Smear, I can tell you first and foremost he is a stand up guy. The charges being brought against him are unfair and unjust. I know, for a fact he no longer writes graffiti (and has not for quite some time) and has tried very hard (and succeeded) to stay far away from any illegal activity esp. anything involving graffiti.

In fact he is not even part of MTA - he stopped his involvement with that group years ago. He's obviously been taken in to be pressured and bullied by the police, and that is ridiculous. He's already done his time, his community services and payed back the restitution charged on him

This is a unfair arrest with no merit. FREE SMEAR!

[DAG]

Props To MTA theyv'e always been an inspiration, but i dont quite understand how 3.7 million dollars have to be spent to remove it how's pockets are they trying to fill to tell u the truth thre's really no point in removing it either because theyre gonna come back to do it again and again and again and theyre gonna make it bigger and better each time, those of u asking for blood shed need to open up your eyes this is an artform and for those that disagree so be it. Say what you please but these guys wont be stopped.

[steve beardon]

Graffiti is a blight upon the community, and is a gateway crime. The cost of doing nothing contributes to more of the same. Keep up the good work, and keep on arresting.

[Not impressed]

Well, it's simple this is but a clever media ploy by the police...
They can't seem to keep crack off the streets or cocaine from entering the country so they focus on tagging. Not to mention the fact that there is such a blur between "tagging" and "gangs" in fact Johnny Q citizen would be lead to believe by news reports that in fact they are one and the same..

It's cheap how "tagging" seems to be the fall guy.. Sure most of it is done by ignorant little kids, but there is also an large amount of skill going along with it...

I would like to see a police officer try and bust a huge LAPD... I smell epic failure..

Also the whole thing is back ward, we live in a society that is fueled by L.A. and it's underground culture, So at one side we have a consumer base being fed "tagging" in adds and fashion and art.. and on the other we have a police department violating peoples homes, allowing the news to mix gangs and taggers, and then scape goating them into being the super villains of L.A.

Good Job boys in blue who needs to lock up: kidnappers,extortionists,bank robbers,serial rapists,murders of the old and the young and the new born,or for that matter your own kind who are out there making a mockery of the law... ya'll have people who you "think" are "Metro"...

Waste of resources I would rather have "tags" on the street then half the stuff you all allow to be there... =)

This is a unfair arrest with no merit. FREE SMEAR!

^^ I didn't even get started on how the police are trying to extort this young artist...

[Dave]

Kids and adults are defined by a random number. 16 years in some states 18 years in others. They say you can drive at this age you can drink at that. They say you can serve the country at 18 but can't do this... Blah. Age should not be the issue here so please don't strain the court system any more than it is with these kids.

Some people think this is art others don't. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Some people think Picasso is art and others don't. Taggers, piecers and their crews/friends or whatever you want to call them will not stop no matter what age they are because this is a modern day form of art. It IS in galleries, commercials and music videos just to name a few places it is used. I'm tolerable for this type of art to a point.

There's many unwritten rules to tagging, piecing, scribing, etcetera that many people do not understand (Buy a book about it and enlighten yourself). The only time I do not like this type of art is when taggers et al paint over other artists work.

A tagger should have every right that a politician has when placing their political posters to vote for them around the city in public places. All the visual blight we have with garbage multi-national corporation billboards is just as bad as a tagger scribbling on a city utility box.
This is another story.

This "sting" to net taggers from only ONE crew in many crews in ONE city in this nation was a taxpayers waste to begin with. There are more hardcore criminals that the sheriffs could concentrate on instead of the pettiness of a vandal. This comes at a time when California has declared it is bankrupt and when our tax returns will be IOU's. If I was mayor I would demand at this time of recession that 3.7 million dollars be used to feed the homeless in this city.

Ever since civilization started there has been arts, carvings, wall paintings, tagging, etcetera which has been in ALL major cities for years. Sure they did not have permission but the problem is deeper. With budget cuts "across the board" with arts and education at the front of it, extra curricular activities at school have been cut and kids have to find something productive (and/or not so productive) to do. There's many options that can be done to turn this into a positive production. Just one example would be for the city using this money for "the arts" and have the L.A. River painted by communities from all around the Los Angeles area to "beautify" the river (including those who currently paint it illegally).

I believe that this is on the drawing table that a beautification project has been written up to create a long bike path, parks, tree planting, etcetera along the L.A. River is in the preliminary stages. This should be a call for all artists to submit a proposal to paint the river and be included in the beautification process (taggers included). A diverse committee group can oversee and vote on the art process. The city can hire or call for volunteer artists to come and paint the river with specific themes. We could have the same bunch of MTA taggers to work as a group in the community to re-paint something more colorful and productive over the silver and black "eyesore" that is there.

If there was more positive options to paint legally in our/your community whether through city grants or volunteering it would deter tagging to a lesser level. Once you paint over what these kids have done the next group of kids will paint there again. Wasting taxpayer money to sting, raid and prosecute them will not stop vandalism at all (especially when L.A. City is claiming a deficit).

With so many jobs being lost on a daily basis we could hire 1000 artists and pay them $3,700 each to paint that very spot they say is so contaminated. This will both pump money into the community and local economy plus taxes will have to be paid from each artist who is paid. I wonder how many people posting here have ever been to the LA River where this "crime" has taken place. With all those factories and rail lines around that area this is the least of worries to damage the environment.

To those whose post that their neighborhood house values are going down I have to disagree. The real criminals here are the high flying CEO bankers whose bank(s) is failing and has had shady business practices who are firing their employees while giving themselves 20 million dollar bonuses. The failing CMBS and underwriters are the culprits who have created YOUR houses dropping in value who the sheriffs should be investigating. Please let me know why Bernie Madoff is living free while the SEC hides behind ignorance as we nickle and dime on the lower end here with small time taggers.

Side notes for those who think taggers are gangters.Most are not.
First, there is a distinguishable difference between the two and you probably do not know the difference. Second, you would not want to run into a "real" gangster because if you did you'd get "ganked".
Third, The media (in the USA) do a horrible way of reporting ANYTHING about graff, tagging, etcetera because they are on the outside looking in. They went to school for journalism and get most reporting about the street plain wrong.

I bet the first time you heard about graff was "Chaka".

I read another post here with a great suggestion to simply leave it and paint over it. We can use the large 4 block long MTA tag as a base coat and have the hired 3,700 to paint flowers over it and divide up the money equally. If you paint over the 4 block long MTA tag why not do this to the rest of the concrete along the Los Angeles River?

There's other options that can be done and the above is just a thought. This is where we as a community should stop and think of the different options that could be done before wasting 3.7 million dollars.

BTW - I have some extra bucket paint from painting my house that I have yet to take to the environmental drop-off location so tonight I'll be painting over the big (MTA) tag in the LA River for all of you. I'll bill you.

[joe]

graffiti gives jobs to middle class people.

[please....]

this is another ignorant comment made by a person spoon fed the "truth about taggers" by the news stations...

Taggers are not artists! they're law breakers that deface private property and kill responsibile citizens that interfere or try to stop them. The comments expressed genereally consider these tagger's to be 'kool' and not really harming anyone. Not so! Besides killing people, they kill any semblance of pride a community may otherwise have. Most tagger's are or will become gangmembers. Until the general public begins viewing them as what they are, scum, they'll continue on their merry task.

if they are not artist then surely they (^^) can reproduce anything that they create =)

so taggers are now killers? umm.. when you pick up a can of spray paint it doesn't include a 357....More to the point this poor mislead soul is speaking about people shot by GANGS.. not taggers...

Hmmmm.. pride in the community I feel this person is simply projecting his/her own lack of pride onto others =) as I am sure any MTA that took part in making such a huge roller n the river can tell you.. It was for their city and they love their city, so they prob have more love and pride for their city then most...

"Most tagger's are or will become gangmembers. Until the general public begins viewing them as what they are, scum, they'll continue on their merry task."

This is a fallacy. Most tag to avoid being in a gang.. and since when do taggers tend to be gang members? hmm.. not know what your talking about much? scum? ok.. well maybe you should be feeling safer with the cops raiding peoples homes whoa re trying to turn their life around =/
To end you make sense here when u say that the general public needs to understand the scope of things, but your wrong in your myopic view of the truth. Simply put This is what the news channels want the public to believe and Curious Observer |is a poster child for the misinformation being broadcasted to the public =(

[BRANDON]

why is vandalism a felony while carrieing a knife to school, or prostitution is not.to me these laws are messed up and so is charging millions of dollars for something that doesnt even come close to clean up that much. im pretty sure that the dirty sewage water is more toxic than the actuall clean up of the river art. this is a sighn that graffiti is only going to get bigger and we must be included now!!

their are millions of things we can do with 3 million dollars than spend than clean this.i say leave it. their is still going to be graff over it anyways

[Milton Burl]

A good point just made above is that graff writers actually LOVE their cities. If you can't understand that, then please don't try to understand the motives of writers and the essence of graffiti.

[Marcos El Malo]

It's a shame that the police aren't cracking down on the illegal billboards and supertarps as hard as they are on the taggers.

[Juan Way]

3.7 Million to clean it up!!! Bureaucrats are so stupid.... Instead of removing the paint why not just pave a layer of concrete over it? I'm sure that wont cost much and covers the tag as well as prevents paint from entering the river. This is just one reason why our country is in such an economic downturn; the lack of inventiveness and imagination in our leaders. Regarding the taggers... well only TOYS get caught so they deserve whatever gets thrown their way. A big MTA block buster is so narcissistic... Stupid toys...

[RL]

They should have their thumbs removed. It is hard to do this again with out opposable digits.

I would love to paint my initials on his 60k car. See how he feels when his property is defaced.

[Dirty]

"Some of you are straight up sick. Chopping hands off for some paint on a wall? garnish all their stuff? Do you guys ever think how its like from the other side..? You guys are the evidence that this government is doing a wonderful job at brainwashing you. 3.7 million to remove is that right? wait, wait a minute.. California is neck-deep in debt and they are planning on erasing some paint with that money...And your government is going to send IOU's to you suckers eating up all their stories. Also, you're blaming graffiti writers for toxic waste in the LA river? please!.. Have you dimwits ever even walked by the LA river? seen the dye factories? the waste draining directly to the river? That MTA roller is by far the least of the oceans worries. Do you know how many toxins are on the streets alone? what do you think happens when it rains...all of your waste you throw, your rubber deteriorating from your car, all ya'll are hypocrites. Just following this countries twisted laws. Raiding guys that just paint on walls...while the murderers and rapist run around the city with no worries. All the city is doing is making it LOOK safe...remember that."

-nicely put.

[.............]

government officials just want more control over peoples minds and movements in the world, to silence or exterminate any expression they dont see fit. Who are they to take away our expression, our enjoyment, and our culture. griffiti is a symbol. unkillable and will never fade. if there was no paintings on the walls of caves, we would never have known the story that individual had to tell. its in our human nature to write on walls and express what we see in our minds and in front of us. In schools you take away most self expression programs. government are fighting a losing war.

[BEANS]

3.7 million
why not just leave it there if they're going to spend that much.
Doesn't bother any one does it?

[Paul]

Everything these criminals own should be taken by the prosecutors. Leave them with the clothes on their backs, and send them back to their Mamas, like the spoiled little children they really are.

[Just duets]

I'm so feed up with all the advertisements I'm forced to see on the daily basis promoting un real life styles and worthless products that when I see someone take the time to do something original and artsitic its inspiring. SMEAR is the man! responsible or not if you haven't bought his art work yet now's the time its going be worth a grip! therestitutionpress.com

[Brandie Gadget]

Dear Not So "Concerned" Citizens,

As a future PhD of chemistry let me say this: Los Angeles is FULL of TOXIC/CARCINOGENIC/MUTAGENIC chemicals. Have you ever looked up on a sunny day to see the haze in the air. Just breathing in all those toxins is far worse then some damn paint on the side of a teratogenic 'river'. The very AIR you breathe is toxic and that 'river' which is more like an collective of toxic substances is ALREADY contaminated! I mean really...do any of you 'do-gooders' ever go swimming/fishing in that mess? NO. I know you don't because even the poorest of the poor don't!

Additionally I am appalled that California is having all these financial crises and the police are focused on some paint on an otherwise plain wall, in the middle of nowhere (I mean c'mon...do any of you 'holier-than-thou'-types even GO down to that part of the 'river' EVER? I think not. YET, we are going to stand by and let the government pay 3.7 MILLION dollars to 'clean-up' this painting? NOT ME! How about we use that money to retrofit L.A. and make the place GREENER ..THEN and ONLY THEN can we get all antsy over some paint .

I am writing to the state and city. I am an educated intellectual and academic. I am not going to let the POLICE scare me into thinking these young people are worth police time/effort. This is SO PETTY! I am more worried about the violent criminals and SEX OFFENDERS who are roaming the streets on PAROLE! Those are the types we should be locking up and throwing away the key NOT some young people who are getting high and painting things. RIDICULOUS and as a biochemist I can fully say ...this 'environmental' argument is crap....and because the government knows how IGNORANT people are to SCIENCE...they use the "SCARE TACTIC". These youngsters aren't polluting the environment, the government and their so-called "OFFICIALS" are polluting your mind ...with FEAR.

GREENER LOS ANGELES NOW- FREE THE NON-VIOLOENT CRIMINALS

[Jen]

I don't understand why they'd spend 3.7 mil to clean that up. Have those kids scrape it off with razorblades and save the paint scrapings in buckets. Viola! Perps are punished, money saved. No stupid high power water pressure or special dams required.

[esteban]

No one really understand the whole graffiiti movement! These kids write graffiti instead of gang banging, robbing, killing and everyother crime known to man! Yall are taking about sending theses guys to china and taking there personal effects and cutting off their hands... i pay taxes too but i enjoy the ART (yes ART) and there r many others that do too those who dont just wana see it as gang related writing on a wall. No one knows about the urban community and how much graffiti is apart of it. Some of you people dont know what its like to grow up in a rough neighborhood with gangs and drugs so before u go judging people be aware of what they are capable of. There are a lot of graffiti writers that make lots of money from million and billion dollar compamies like Coke and Pepsi, apple, the list goes on and on... they even have art in galleries all around the world they travel and do what they love so why knock them for it?

[MG]

I am a Metro Bus Operator and I would love to have this "diamond-and-ruby-encrusted Metro logo pendant" I'd rock that thing up and down my route all day & night.

[Glenn Zucman]

The director of the film "Bomb It," a documentary on graffiti in cities across the globe, commented that he thought the more "messed up" a city was... the more graffiti it had.

A city that would spend 3.7 million to deface an artwork that cost a few hundred sounds like a pretty messed up city to me.

Yes, the real crime is the destruction of the natural habitat where condors once flew. As long as we have public property, why does it have to be gray?

Yes, there probably is less tolerance for this sort of work in China and other countries, but isn't that exactly the point? In the half century since WWII the United States has ceased the production of virtually all physical material. The only property we produce anymore is IP. And I think the reason we still, barely perhaps, but still, seem to lead the world in that, is because of our diversity and tolerance. If you really want to whitewash that away, what will we have left? Who will America be?

[Ashton]

it shows how greedy the system is some1who rapes some one gets a year and the. Guys who did this are get at least 3 years they don't care about peaple they just want there money

[dixie normus]

3.7 million...its common sense that it does not cost that much to remove graffiti....in case u havent noticed the river is full of art....old and new....if you think that spending 3.7million to remove the grafiiti roller....
THEYRE OBVIOUSLY TRYING TO STEAL EVERY TAXPAYERS MONEY!!!!
no one is dumb enough to believe it takes that much money to remove toxic graffiti when the factories around spill more toxins EVERYDAY...
WHUT U NEED TO DO IS SLAP YOURSELF AND TAKE A LOOK AT REALITY!!!
THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE TYPE OF PEOPLE WE ARE...
THEY TRY TO CONTROL US WITH FEAR AND INTIMIDATION

[David]

Remember people, this is ART and ART is not a crime!

[Mickey O'Rourke]

Graffiti is one of the most noble of crimes, just under stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. Graffiti reminds the wealthy that there are unruly subjects afoot and clearly, that cannot be tolerated. Graffiti must be wiped out - it leads to other forms of free thought and expression. The MTA roller is super dope. Good job guys, do your time and keep it up.

[cant stop us]

....pfff!

first of all..why are they only talking about the mta piece?..wat about saber's piece....that piece can actually be considered art by these "outraged citizens" who some how have an art degree, and consider themselves famous art critics...ppppfff...

props to MTA....must take all!!!!!!!

yes were immature, egomaniacs, and u know wat else?

U CANT STOP US!...

and i hate the hypocrites who are supposedly into art, and appreciate "pieces and bombs"... but hate the "tagging" because they are "eye sores"...hahaha

pieces, bombs, taggs, stickers, its all the same thing...

graffiti will be around FOREVER!!!!

and EVER....

and EVER...

so this is what u do..ok ...listen

BUILD A BRIDGE!

AND GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!....

3.7 million ...hahaha thats asinine...its the allegation the authorities use to make this into a bigger deal...increase those guy's sentences ... so when they run for re election they could assure you they are the noble crime fighters... :P

[anonymous]

ok all of you who do not know...
their are different types of "GRAFFITI" especially for you biast people who only look for the bad. One thing Their can be many meanings for this type of GRAFFITI, there is the TAGGING and the GRAF ART. Learn between the two, just because you only see what you see you claim it too be bad, go out and socialize more and learn from others who have an open mind on this. ALL is see is people being against art, and it shows you guys dont really have color in your life. I seriously think SMEAR didnt mean for the bad. IM SURE MTA didnt mean anything wrong, just putting color in people's eyes, something that many of us need. we shouldn't be blind sighted from what we see, but understand why theres a reason for that type of art.

[friend of mta]

mta is a graffiti crew, they love there city and they tried to do something big in the graffiti community by doing that roller. The entire LA river is painted with so called toxic paint when rumor is if u fall and get cut down there you can get flesh eating bacteria or crazy diseases from the river bed. Spray paint isnt anything worse then the river and that was bucket paint they used which is used in and on our homes. when it rains on a house do toxic chemicals go into the earth? its all just cali trying to make a huge deal out of nothing and make an example out of mta. 3.7 mill is probably 5 grand to remove the paint and the rest to get the government people all new cars cause they were pissed that a graffiti writer was flossin a bmx and a 22k mta necklace. haha. they say they have them all over videos talking about the mta roller but they have saber in the LA muesum for his. doesnt make sense.

[steven]

i dont understand the need for actually removing the paint with high pressure water hoses or anything. it will just get painted over again eventually. it would be much cheaper to just buff over it with another 400 gallons of paint

[prim]

Graffiti artists have an immense amount of pride and love for their city. They spend time in the some of the least appealing parts of the city and devote their time, money and artistic talents to improving it visually. If I devoted my life to beautifying my city, I would want my name all over my work as well. Your opinion may be that graffiti is doing nothing to beautify our stone and concrete environment and that's fine. However, please understand that the people who spend their lives pursuing this activity believe to their very core that graffiti is beautiful and that they are turning something ugly and coarse and truly forgotten into something to be celebrated.

I respect others opinions here, but every statement I've read on here arguing that graffiti is a legitimate crime and that the punishments they are seeking (comparable to violent offenses) are fitting of the crime have been woefully innacurate and/or highly reactionary and fear based.

The bottom line is our city, our country, our society, has such deeper, more destructive issues it's facing. Now more than ever we need to prioritize. Is this sort of activity really worth the money and energy being spent trying to stop it?

Property values have been affected a thousand times more by our horribly structured economy and the true criminals who manipulate it, than by graffiti artists. There's no comparison. Yet the people who commit these "white collar" financial crimes are handled with kid gloves and often receive nothing more than a slap on the wrist in the wake of ruining so many people's lives. While street artists are targeted. It is a show for the masses.

Funny that the Los Angeles Times was invited to be present during these raids. Does it not seem like a presentation? An act not to actually improve our city but instead to paint a picture of the Los Angeles law enforcement collective doing something, anything constructive. Thankfully, most conscious citizens see right through it all. They are shocked and appalled that their government is spending taxpayer money on something so futile. Rightfully so.

[Lord Jim]

You caught the vandals that threw a coat of paint on the L.A. riverbed...now that's news from the frontlines. I feel so much safer knowing that these guys can't come into my neighborhood now and sharpie their devil signs on my house. Smashing good job detectives! And so unexpected and out of the blue...I mean there wasn't even a unwarranted shooting, a corruption case or another batch of police brutality we needed to distract from.
And then you jock up the damage to a surreal 3.7 million to warrant lengthy prison sentences for these difficult and vicious...err, painters, right?! Astonishing.

I wonder how many of the concerned citizens advocating hands chopped off and labor camp for the taggers were actually offended by the tag...just a hunch - like none? Because that's really not your neighborhood, right? Isn't it down by the tracks where the wild things are? Or did you actually get out of the car to survey the damage they inflicted on the precious concrete river bed? What happened - did you get eye cancer?!

If a real estate group pays to erect 50 feet tall letters for everyone to see it becomes a beloved landmark, a bunch of local punks do the same in a pathetic concrete tub they're jail bait. If you don't understand the motive behind a gesture like the tag, sit on that for a moment...that's how the disenfranchised and powerless lay claim to their city.

Consider the feeble crucible: Is it art?
Does it have to be?! Would you feel better about it if it had been curated by a LACMA trailblazer or say, Christo had paid all permits to validate it as an installation.
It's so much more than art. It's an unadultered, immature piece of bravado, a massive finger to the mundane. It's the underbelly of L.A. giving you some heartburn.
My take is, the taggers created a true L.A. icon.
These inspired lunatics got more moxy than most of the ranting drones here and lay claim to their city just like anyone should. That tag is an idiosyncratic heart with three letters carved in the bark of our city.
L.A. gleefully tolerates, building size billboards, cookie cutter mall monstrosities, cell towers popping up on the double for the convenience of an uninterrupted phone call, but can't stomach signs of life.
And that's what chaps the blue hide, can't have that authority knocked....to much color for a vanilla mindset.

And consider how most graffiti writers are much more respectful towards their city than our developers and institutions. The river is unmarked territory, nowhere-land, space that belongs to all and non.The writers don't come to paint your house, they seek out the in-between spaces, the abandoned, the ugly, the unclaimed... Few Angelenos even know that we have a river.

The real perversion is to actually consider paying 3.7 mill for the clean-up.
And you got the gall to pull the environment card (.. toxic paint! ...costly hazardous clean-up! ) when you ignore the environmental atrocity before your very eyes - the concrete corset laid over what once was a living river, eco system and all.
Instead of paying a no bid tab to the army corps, leave the tag and give the money to FOLAR, the friends of the L.A. river and let them use it to evaluate strategies to re-naturalise the river and make it a viable recreational option for Angelenos. It could happen.

Meanwhile your twisted sense of justice will throw the book at these vandals and with that give them every reason to go even bigger, higher, bolder.
And since the rules of engagement are always stacked in favor of the beige goons I'm rooting for the hoodlums that mix it up....props MTA!

[....]

I did not bother reading all the comments, seems like some of you did not read the article. Some of you sound like complete ignorants. It is not like this is the only area that the L.A. river is painted on.Are they going to paint over the whole river bed?I wonder how much that would cost.

[InTheRiver]

Took me a while to find this article again. So much ignorance by some who claim future PhD's even. First off, there are plenty of samples of wildlife in the LA River and some (the poorest of poor) do in fact wade there, fish there, and bathe there. Do I recomend it? No. As for the companies who drain into the LAR, they are restricted by different entities to have their effluent monitored and keep it in safe levels. Not perfect, but its what we have. Second, although there are different types of graffitti, fact of the matter is, there are rules that are being broken. Yes, you do in fact have to feed the bureaucratic machine by paying permits and right of entry agreements, etc. Just because you have good use of colors and different painting techniques, doesn't mean you can go steal paint, break and enter, tresspass, use unapproved chemicals within a channel that leads straight into the ocean, hang upside down from bridges without fall protection and to add a few facts, people in tagging crews do in fact rape, murder, steal, and act like thugs over people who cross them out. I grew up in Boyle Heights and East LA...I lost so many friends to pointless violence over disrespecting pieces its not even funny. Next, just because someone loves their city, doesn't mean you can go around defacing it. You want your artwork shown, do it on canvas or on your own property and have a public showing to attract attention. Many businesses actually allow piecing crews to put up murals and pay them to do so. You know what taggers do? They go deface that too. Love your city? Great, pay taxes, obey its laws and find a place where you can volunteer to give something back to the community instead of defacign it. It does in fact lower property values. You don't see this type of BS in higher class neighborhoods, do you? Its all in metro LA and the woroking class areas. Finally, I'll add this. This problem will never stop. Lowering punishment for so called non-violent crimes won't help. For all those who like this art in their cities, do me a favor. Go hang out at these places while these activities are taking place and see how non-violent these guys actually are. You may very well be outsiders looking in from behind a monitor. Working class citizens who have to live here know better...this isn't art.

[InTheRiver]

Also forgot to add, an alley runs behind my house. I paid a few thousand dollars to put up a relatively nice fence. Days later, it was tagged. Some scribble, some "nice" arty looking thing. These guys are marking their territory? They live in appartments. They don't pay taxes on their "property" and here I did things right, grew up among these guys and chose the other alternative...you know, that whole being a productive part of society. I pay my dues as a citizen of California and these United States. My work will be up for decades serving the citizens of Los Angeles. Their "art" will fade and cause more senseless violence once someone tags over it.

[shmoe]

I just want to add that I have gone and spent time with numerous artists while they worked through the night on another piece and I've never had a problem with a single one of them. They're some of the friendliest, most accepting, least judgemental people I've ever been around. Not to mention open minded. They're artists! Not gang members. If they wanted to be in a gang they would be. There's a difference whether you choose to accept it or not.

Have you ever heard the phrase "no taxation without representation"? If that doesn't perfectly describe this situation I don't know what does. Those who feel that graffiti is not actually a legitimate crime worthy of law enforcement energy and tax dollars are ignored and neglected and that's when it becomes their civic duty to stand up for what they believe in.

Are you seriously upset that violence occurs around the graffiti world? Violence is a part of each and every human endeavor. Shopping results in violence for god sake. Remember this past years black friday? Ban shopping!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wildlife in the river? If you're referring to flesh eating bacteria than yeah, there's lots of signs of "wildlife"...

[InTheRiver]

There are lots of migratory birds that nest there, amphibians, I've personally seen fish (carp) big enough to eat. Its a whole ecosystem. Having dealt with Friends of the LA River, Corps of Engineers (I actually worked there for some time which is why I know a lot about the river and how it works), Water Quality Management District etc we can't just ignore life in the LA River because it is not fluffy and meets the "aweness" criteria for life we need to protect.

You can go ahead and defend these "artists" all you want. But until your fence gets hit with graffitti and you have to pay for it out of pocket and this happens repeatedly, you just won't understand. Worse yet, if you actually go try to defend your property and they shoot you for it.

MTA, RTD, CKS, KSR, all these tagging crews I knew of back in the mid 90's when I was in junior high in Boyle Heights...they MIGHT have one or two guys in there who are "nice" but I grew up with them murdering each other over crossed out pieces, some even slitting throats and putting in a spray can tips in the gashes. I was at parties when they were doing drivebys because they had beef. Yeah, there is violence everywhere, but gangs, crews, clicks, hoods, whatever you want to call them, are criminal organizations. You think they actually pay for their paint? They call it "stocking" or to put it in leimans, shop lifting. There are plenty of places where these people can find artistic outlets that would actually put their talent to good use. Self Helps Graphics, Homeboy Industries, etc.

Don't get me wrong, 3.7 million sounds inflated to me too. Especially for something that won't really solve a problem anyway. But to defend criminal activity in any way is downright insulting to those of us who keep LA going. Specially when its outsiders who never lived in the area and want to tell someone who grew up amongst the lifestyle how it really is.

[shmoe]

The term "criminal activity" is subjective honestly. If you pore through the voluminous books of enacted laws, you'd be shocked at what technically qualifies as "criminal". How many "criminal" activities do you engage in on any given day? Do you strive to keep yourself within the confines of the law just because a judgement on what is right and wrong has been handed down to you by someone you've never met? Do you report yourself to the fuzz every time you do something "illegal"? I will never stop defending "criminal activity" I don't believe should be categorized as such. That is one of the foundations of our freedom.

I don't mean to be insulting in any way, but I feel it's very important to voice my opinion on the subject. It's not a personal attack on your set of beliefs, instead merely a stating of another point of view. I have had my personal property defaced. It was a minor inconvenience honestly. Worth someone having to spend time in jail, where minor criminals become true desperate professionals? Not even close. To me there is a difference between something artistic and some ugly scrawling and there is a difference between hitting up city and personal property. I'm not claiming I have the right to judge the difference for others.

Would there be as much violence in the graffiti world if it were made legal? If these truly are "criminal organizations", I would so much rather they spend their time painting than any number of other "illegal" activities. Don't you feel like it's one of the lowest of the evils committed in this city?

What is undeniable in my mind is that this taxpayer money needs to be spent on something else, something proactive. How about attempting to return the LA river to its natural state? If it weren't an ugly swathe of concrete, graffiti artists wouldn't mess with it. Birds and a few carp? Rivers in their natural state are the lifeblood of the world around them, an intersection for every living creature inhabiting a given area. Our river is such a sad substitution. The truly "criminal" act here is turning this natural area into the abomination it has become. I am insulted by those who would defend these far more destructive pursuits and then turn around and tell me they are justified in harassing, incarcerating, and trying to destroy people who have painted over their abomination.

Please don't tell me you would actually eat a fish pulled from that cesspool...

[xxxx]

I can see it from every angle, but you can't go to that stretch of the LA River and tell me that one piece is the end of the river... that one "toxic" piece is killing the river. As you have seen in many movies, car chases etc. the LA River is a perfect backdrop. Sure if you get caught, they prosecute but THEY DONT REALLY DO ANYTHING TO STOP YOU. You can hop fences, you can crawl through holes, you can walk right into the river and paint. I personally believe they keep it that way. Obviously you have to pay to film there, and you are most likely paying the city. If the LA River concrete walls were clean and buffed, that'd be a pretty boring set. I used to live in a warehouse close to Soto and Olympic. I can't even count the number of film crews in the most dilapidated areas filming some crime scene or chase... All these empty builidings around there that are ONLY used as sets. Consumers want to "see" but they don't want to live there. And the areas around there, the property values are not going DOWN because of the River. Little Tokyo, the Arts District... all that is pretty high priced. but when you go EAST of the river within the same mileage distance, it's like a different world. It's not the artists "ruining" the values of these areas it's a socioeconomic and political situation. There are still yards in Little Tokyo and wheat pastes and slaps and tags all over the place, but the property value is high. I live downtown now in historic core... there are scratch tags in my elevator and bombs around my building. It doesn't worry me one bit. They should worry less about the walls and worry more about the RATS. Seriously. Priorities. First, get the people off the street and help them. Don't just merely push them east and make them someone else's problem. And there's a rat explosing that can't be good for the "ecosystem". There are so many other problems to worry about than paint on a wall you didn't care about in the first place.

[Bob Log]

Tagging is lame. It's stupid childish ego driven bravado. I hope the BMW and bling are confiscated and auctioned off to halp pay for all the damage they've caused.

[JonasOne_Germany]

why do ya´ll even bother so much. you should go out there and write your name somewhere. then you might feel what its like. truly enjoyable. after all its just paint. this world has other problems.
i surely will do so now.

[Ray Carrenza]

stop spending money on painting over graffiti.
its art. its nice to have colorful things to look at.
it starts with a tagging.
then a throw up.
then a piece.
then a mural.
painting over a wall gives taggers a new canvas to paint on.
big ups to MTA.

[JUST YOUR AVG. JOE]

TKO IS LAUGHING...

[Some guy.]

Poor SMEAR. The guy doesnt even do graffiti any longer...he keeps his work strictly on canvas/panels. I guy this was some sort of a political arrest. Stay strong, keep your head up, and know this : when this is all said and done, your paintngs will be worth major $$$. Every dark cloud has a silver lining. That is the price one pays for being a street legend in this day and age.

[RAWKET]

CONGRATULATIONS ....YOU JUST TURNED MTA AND SMEAR INTO LOS ANGELES LEGENDS ....I THINK I MIGHT GET A TATTOO BY ONE OF THEM SO I CAN SHOW MY GRANDKIDS IN 30 YEARS