Suspected Wilmington gunman, wife had lost jobs at Kaiser Permanente [UPDATED]

A man who had recently been laid off from a local hospital opened fire at his Wilmington home today, killing his five young children as well as his wife, police said.

The gunman then took his own life, according to authorities. Police said the children were an 8-year-old girl, twin 5-year-old girls and twin 2-year-old boys. LAPD Deputy Chief Kenneth Garner said police found notes inside the house in which the gunman referred to "work-related issues."

"In these tough economic times, there are other options,"  Garner said. "In my 32 years, I've never seen anything like this."

Police discovered the bodies after a bizarre series of events this morning that included, authorities said, the gunman faxing a letter to KABC Channel 7 shortly before killing himself. Someone, possibly the gunman, called the LAPD about 8:20 a.m. saying, "I just returned home, and my whole family has been shot," according to Garner.

Police entered the house and smelled gunshot residue. The bodies were found around the house. Each person apparently had been shot with a revolver.

Garner said the bodies of the three girls were found in an upstairs bedroom and the bodies of the boys and the mother were found in a back bedroom. Notes found at the house suggested the case was a murder-suicide, he said.

According to Channel 7, the faxed letter detailed workplace problems both the man and his wife were having at a Kaiser Permanente hospital in West Los Angeles. The letter said that an unnamed administrator told him one day that he shouldn't have come to work and said "you should have blown your brains out."

The man said in the letter that he complained to his union to no avail. Then both he and wife were fired, Channel 7 reporter Gene Gleeson said in summarizing the letter.

The couple, Ervin Antonio Lupoe and his wife, Ana, were both former employees of Kaiser Permanente West Los Angeles Medical Center. "They were recently terminated," a spokesman for the hospital group confirmed.

"We are deeply saddened to hear of the tragic deaths of Ana, Ervin and their five children," Kaiser said in a statement, extending the hospital group’s sympathies to their family and friends. "We are providing support to Kaiser Permanente employees."

Kaiser officials said they are cooperating with the ongoing LAPD investigation.

UPDATED at 3 p.m.: At an afternoon news conference, LAPD officials said that the family had pulled the older children out of their school several weeks ago. Capt. William B. Hayes said Lupoe was involved in a "business dispute" with Kaiser but did not elaborate.

Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa said the city and county have hotlines available for people in desperate straits, including job centers, counselors and suicide hotline workers. "Know we are waiting with a helping hand and an open heart," he said.

Police investigators said that based on their preliminary investigation, the case involves one suicide and six homicides, according to LAPD Lt. John Romero. But they said they must review physical evidence to rule out other possibilities.

The letter faxed to KABC indicated, for example, that there was agreement between husband and wife that killing the family was the best course of action, suggesting the possibility that both adults planned the slayings in advance. But the 911 call in which the husband reportedly told police that he came home to find his family shot to death also clouded the picture.

-- Andrew Blankstein, Richard Winton, Corina Knoll, Ari B. Bloomekatz and Ruben Vives

Photo: Family portrait taken from Ervin Lupoe's Facebook page.

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 Earlier blog post

Comments

[K2]

So were this couple deeply involved with the union at the time they were fired?
I would like LA Times journalists to investigate the information surrounding Kaiser's handling of this. I would also like to see the release of the letter that he wrote before the killings. Please do not protect the corporation by sweeping events under the rug.

[R Beaver]

It's not the gun, it's not the man or the woman that is to blame. It's all of us. Most people wouldn't cross the street to feed a hungry man but let him die and see who cries out who was wronged. The system failed, the employer failed, the family failed and the tragedy could have been averted if someone cared enough to get involved.

"What can you do to make things better" should ring in every ones mind on a daily basis but we're human and we fail, regularly. Unfortunately someone with a gun fell so far into despair that mental illness takes over. These are bad times and bad things are happening, where are the support systems? They certainly were not at Kaiser.

[Gil R]

We don't know for sure, and may never know, if this unidentified administrator told this man that he "should have blown your brains out".

I have, however, heard similarly insensitive statements made to persons -- including myself -- being fired during the 82-85 recession.

[Jim]

Boy, Kaiser had better check their people skills. No one should ever tell someone who is mentally or emotionally fragile to hurt themself. If those comments by the Kaiser administrator are indeed true then the unemployment line should get a bit longer. Perhaps maybe an arrest?

This is a horrific tragedy. My heart aches for them.

[Mary Maron]

You've obviously fired all your proof readers.

[Will]

Couldn't Kaiser have chosen a better choice of words then 'They were recently terminated," ??

While I am saddened by the tragic deaths, Kaiser's response gives a very good indication of how they view their employees.

[ivan]

How many peoples lives did they ruin?

The place they worked isn't exactly known for its good deeds.

[Johann]

Well, what can I say, Kaiser delivers 8 kids this morning, but kills 7 people this afternoon.

[Unfortunate]

It's really unfortunate that people feel, whether out of pride or desparation, that they need to take these drastic steps. There are ALWAYS other options. Anyone who has been on the rollercoaster we call life knows that there is always an alternative to suicide. The unfortunate thing about this is that the small children NEVER had a chance to live their own lives. It's a shame, but unfortunately this is not the first and it surely won't be the last, especially in these tough times.

[Bad Planning]

Indeed this is very sad and horrible event. Who is to blame? Kaiser? The economy? Losing a job is very devasting banks don't pardon your situation, nor do they care that you die. Banks have no mercy and this government pumped billions of dollars into them to save them.......

[fuggy]

One family gets all the support society can muster. 49 doctors to birth their fertility-treatment caused octuplets. 6 weeks in intensive care. Does that cost one million dollars? Who gets the money? Kaiser Permanente.

Another family gets fired from Kaiser Permanente and has the prospect of no support from society whatsoever.

[Jim Earl]

It's not the gun? How moronic. The availability of guns only made it easier to commit a crime that could have been delayed and possibly stopped otherwise.

[James]

Rest in peace.

There are always alternatives when a person or couple lose their jobs and are on the verge of financial calamity -- yet so many people are so desperate, so distraught, that they want to instantly end any pain and problems they foresee.

Sad.

May they find the peace in eternity.

[Errol Flynn]

I blame Obama. There is no an attitude of intolerance that a) promotes death, vis-a-vis unlimited abortion and b) promotes lawlessness be appointing known felons to Secretary of State and Treasury.

This poor man was told there was "change we can believe in" and "hope" and that his "mortgage would be paid, and gas tank filled" but instead all he got was a pink slip from Kaiser (a significant donor to the Obama-Biden campaign) and a bum's rush from his union (another key player in the Obama-Biden conquest).

How many more of these tragedies can we Angelenos expect?

[Oliver]

Blame the man, not Kaiser, not Bush, not Obama. We're living in a society of victim mentality. The Western civilization is dead with such a mindset.

[keller]

As usual, a lot of opinion here but not much knowledge. First of all, Kaiser is pro union, so the man's union activities would not have been a problem. There is also a long, detailed process for terminating union people, one that ends up in arbitration if the union feels the employee's dismissal was wrong. As to Kaiser's limited statement on the couple's termination, corporations typically maintain privacy on the details of an employees dismissal.
A deeply troubled man killed himself and his family after losing his job. That's all anyone knows right now until the facts show something else.

[cindy]

I blame the person who pulled the trigger on those children. Many, many thousands, millions of people have lost their jobs and don't kill their children.

I don't have much good to say about Kaiser, but it would be interesting to find out why they were fired, and the union didn't stand behind them.

The only person to blame is the killer of those children.

[RS]

The person to blame here is the man who pulled the trigger and killed his children. If the gunman had lived, perhaps people would be less quick to ridiculously blame Kaiser or the economy for these murders. What is happening in the world that we negate personal responsibility? Now the gunman is a victim?

Shame on the LA Times for this irresponsible headline!

[eileen]

First, let me say: Kaiser stinks!

Second: I had a pretty brutal experience with a former employer and was fired in retaliation. I probably could have hurt myself or others. I believe the employer was somewhat culpable. But I did the right thing and with time and distance, I overcame my situation.

However, I did not have five kids to suppport, and my spouse was not employed by the same firm.

I understand the Times can't dig (abd won't get far if they do), but I would like to see some employer accountability in situations like these.

[Ann]

I blame Obama. There is no an attitude of intolerance that a) promotes death, vis-a-vis unlimited abortion and b) promotes lawlessness be appointing known felons to Secretary of State and Treasury.

This poor man was told there was "change we can believe in" and "hope" and that his "mortgage would be paid, and gas tank filled" but instead all he got was a pink slip from Kaiser (a significant donor to the Obama-Biden campaign) and a bum's rush from his union (another key player in the Obama-Biden conquest).

How many more of these tragedies can we Angelenos expect?

Posted by: Errol Flynn
____

Perhaps this person should check into Kaiser - the psych ward to be specific! Obama has been in office less than 2 weeks and he balmes him for the economy???

They have drugs in the pscyh ward to help with paranoid delusions.

[tremaine]

Well, there is another reason for national health insurance that I never thought of: anyone who works for the Government, directly or indirectly, gets more protection from being fired than if they work for greedy insurance companies.

[Bob T]

Forget playing the blame game. I've been quite unsuccessful over the years of talking some of my friends out of taking drastic measures such as these to give up on the daily struggle that is de facto life for tens of millions (even billions worldwide) of us. Blaming others for the financial hole many of us are in won't solve the problems nor ameliorate bearing the weight of the burden of life some of us are now being forced to bear. Besides isn't casting blame such a pointless exercise when we are faced with something so hard to believe as this stark reality? My heart goes out to this family, I hope that they are now in a better place. May God rest their souls.

[Sheridan]

I can't believe someone would blame our new President for such a tragedy. Be bigger than that and stop hating on the President (a black man) . We as a country need to stop blaming and hating one another and work together with finding ways to help improve our economy. How about God blessing their remaining family members by giving them the strength to carry on. Ask God to walk with President Obama so that he can improve the economy and the country. We need unity. President Obama did not screw up this country. 8 years of Bush, 7 days of Obama. You do the math if you can.

[Becky]

Kaiser has the funds to deliver 8 babies to some selfish woman who used fertility drugs, but it cannot deal humanely with its employees? Kaiser spends tens of hours training to deliver 'newsworthy' babies, but nothing for the babies of these sad, undoubtedly mentally ill people? No one care enough about these people.

We should all be ashamed.

[phoenixandrew]

There needs to be an investigation as to who the unidentified Kaiser administrator was that told the gunman to "blow his brains out". Once he is identified, he should not only be fired, he should also be arrested as well.

[Darrell]

I cannot believe that people are blaming guns. If there was no gun how it would have saved time so as to avert the crime and get professional help. It is insanely stupid. A gun is definitely a quicker way to end it fast. If he didn't have a gun he could have used household poisons and drowned his kids in a bathtub- drove the entire family off a cliff in the car they could no afford to make payments on.

Society and those who dictate the rules are who the culprits are first- then we follow closely behind for allowing them to speak for us and run things in our name.

Very sad and will likely be forgotten as quickly as it happened.

[phoenixandrew]

keller, you work for Kaiser, don't you?

[guity]

I've lived long enough not to get too upset at the news, but this as pissed off as I get. It makes me so angry that I want to somehow reach guys like this back through time and kill them again using torture.

There is an entire subset of men out there who think they own their wife and they own their family, and if they don't feel like going forward any more then their God-given right is to take their sons, daughters and wives down along with themselves. This is the ultimate arrogance.

I guess the reason I am the only person complaining about this is that the guy only murdered his kids. If he had had sexual intercourse with them, everyone would be completely outraged that he would have so grossly victimized them...

[victor spoils]

I used to work for the "Happiest place on..." I got involved with their union, became the union spokes person for the staff at one of those new resaurants connected to that new "adult" park. Well, After I filed some complaints from the staff regarding scheduling and favoritisim I was let go. If this person did contact the kaiser union office, you can bet that the administration office DID find out about it and most likely let him and his wife go. You can also bet that Kaiser probably targeted this guy and when enough of a paper trail was formed they were within their right to let him go. I learned that you just can't trust the system, or a union. If you speak up, you run the risk of being let go. So I now keep my mouth shut and do my job.

[Gloria]

To Erryl Flynn -
How long has Obama/Biden been in office so far? The mess left behind by Bush/Chenney's will take years to be undone. We need to come together and be help each other. I pray that those thousands of people who received lay-off notices this week will find help in their communities and government agencies. If you can support your local food banks, nonprofit groups and churches who are there to help. Don't let political bitterness cloud your mind.

[Bry]

Its ignorant to hold Kaiser responsible for the man's act of killing himself and his family. No matter how bad life may get, everyone has the ability to CHOOSE where their lives ultimately end up. No one has the perfect workplace, the best businesses in the world have jerk employees and some of the best employees work at bad businesses. We don't know if his statements about his former supervisor are true or not but we do know that he decided to commit the ultimate evil and take the life of his wife and kids. No one is to blame but himself, there is ALWAYS another option. He could have applied to work somewhere else and taken the hit on his pride instead of ending the innocent lives.

[Jake]

Why did he have to kill the family? Just turn the gun on yourself - don't murder your young children; they're the most beautiful thing on earth...

There's no pink slip in the world that should cause that - I pray for the wife and kid's souls that they may be happy.

[Melissa Johnson]

California filled with crazy people. You people have nothing better to do than go on car chases and burn evey tree to the ground.

The rest of America sees this story and UMG it is in California......so typical.

Who cares!!!

[DDD]

Looks like she married the wrong man!!!!!!

[Tammy Blue]

Errol Flynn - Excuse me? Mr. Obama's administration is exactly seven days and he is responsible for this tragedy? Puhleez. There's plenty of blame to go around without trying to drag newborn presidency into the mix. Please clarify something: what crime it is that the Secretary of State is supposed to have committed? Thank you.

[socmom]

Their blood is on your hands, KAISER.

You had to fire them both? Glad you're not my insurance company.

[Barbara Siegman]

Let's stop the blaming and finger pointing. I am mystified by the need to kill one's whole family when things go badly. It seems some people think they own their children and can dispose of them at will. I feel so sad for these children who had no choice in the matter of their life or death. It is a tragedy. Many people lose jobs or have other losses in life and don't find it necessary to commit murder-suicide. We need to strive to reach out to troubled people beforehand, all the while knowing that some people may not be open to being helped.
I must note, however, blaming Obama is a real stretch. He cannot solve all the world's problems, only offer leadership, direction and, hopefully, forward-thinking policies. It is highly illogical to think legal abortion drove that man (or couple) to this heinous act.

[J Tsai]

Our society tends to blame "everyone" but themselves. We need accountability for our actions. Yes, the man was terminated of the job, but that does not justify the murder/suicide. You can blame companies, society, the economy, etc. but ultimately everyone has to take responsibility for their actions. We have now turned into a society that blames everyone but ourselves. Blame the banks for the mortgages rather than the applicants who clearly knew they could not afford their mortgages, blame the government and "expect" them to solve our problems. Until we take responsibility for our actions, none of these problems are going away.

[Brandon]

This was a selfish man who took the lives of others against their will. There is no excuse for this. I've had plenty of people say horrendous things to me in my life and never used it as an excuse to kill my family. May this pig rot in hell!

[Guitar Dad]

This guy was psycho and deserves to burn in hell.

[Owl Creek]

I hope the CHILDREN find peace in eternity.

As for the father, OTOH--and the mother, if she agreed to this--I hope they burn in hell.

I would have sympathy for them if they killed only themselves, but forcing those children to go with them is unforgivable. The way I see it, they stopped being human the moment they decided to kill their children and deserve no sympathy or compassion.

Lots of people are losing their jobs, homes, etc. The overwhelming majority of them somehow find it within themselves to NOT kill their kids.

[Goodness]

This is a horrible tragedy. Going through things at my current job myself people need to know that there are reprocussions for certain actions. While Kaiser did not end this family's life, it seems that management thought it would be quite humrourus to tell this man to "blow his brains out" (if true). These are hard times, but I still don't know how you shoot your little children one by one. How can you look at your child and do that?

I hope this shows corporate america that you cannot treat people you work with any kind of way. It'll come back to you and now I hope the manager knows what it feels like to be UNEMPLOYED seeing as he thought the man should end his life.

So sad.

[Debra Benefield]

Oh sure blame Kaiser and what?...blame Obama and Biden. Good grief.

Nothing is sure in this life/society...nothing. We lose things everyday. A responsible person ask themselves, if I lose something today, how many people is this going to cost...5 children.

What made them think they had no other way out?

Mayor says people can call his office. What a lovely gesture Mayor!

All so sad...

[Uncle_vito]

This is terrible. How could someone kill his family. I could understand if he shot the boss that fired him but this is totally not logical.

The paper will now find the boss that fired him and do an entire expose with the boss on Oprah, today show, etc.

Just wat the fellow who killed himself and his family was hoping would happen. I would not interview the boss, because this will only encourage copy cat murder/suicides for the attention from the press that it garners.

Vito

[Julian Camacho]

This father cannot be blamed for feeling inept for his family. His job was cancelled and as a father of triplets who was let go of his teaching job at CSULB because of the budget I can relate to his pain. I lost my benefits for my children too who were also born premature while domestic partners get benefits. If death is the solution and attitudes from many job sites leads one to death, then maybe the workplace is the real devil especially when self serving people are in charge. At least in death they are together versus homeless or under a forster home.

[A Scanner Darkly]

A busy week for Kaiser Permanente.

"...There's Seven breezes a blowin'
All around the cabin door
...Seven shots ring out
Like the Ocean's pounding roar
There's Seven people dead
...Somewhere in the distance
There's Seven new People born"

"Ballad Of Hollis Brown"- Bob Dylan

A net of One.

[LeRoroy]

I'm still waiting for the magic! Where is all that change that is promised? Isn't it fixed yet?

[RN]

Kaiser hospitals are a nightmare for any employee. They just want to make as much money as possible, and will abuse nurses and all employees by overwork, verbal abuse, and a general lack of compassion. I am a nurse, and I would never work for a Kaiser facility. I advise all my RN friends: stay away from Kaiser!

[B2]

Why didn't social services follow up when the family pulled their kids out of school? There are so many unanswered questions in this tragedy.

[susan]

wow. if these people wanted to kill themselves, fine, go somewhere else and do it. The kids might not have been very well off in foster care, but at least they'd have a chance. What terribly selfish individuals. Sounds like the marriage from hell.

[Mike]

Even before this unbelievable tragedy took place, I swore long ago that I would never set foot in a Kaiser hospital or clinic again. There is something wrong with that system. The care I got made me feel lower than being "just a number".

[RGK]

I believe they call these personalities, "Family Annihilators." Personalities who are so controlling, that they actually believe their family would be better off dead if they were gone. Sadly, this all too common occurrence will likely continue to play out while the middle-class annihilators, (e.g. neo-cons, insulated bank and financial sector "executives,) struggle to retain their illusions.

In the interim people, let's try to remember that (1) suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, or at least, (2) your kids/spouse will miss you more than words can describe, but that doesn't equate to being better off dead.

If you are feeling this desperate, even if you have NO MONEY, county health can at least give you some medication. The feeling will go away.

[Rosa]

Come on people! We have no Idea why Kaiser fired this guy... Maybe he molested a patient or stole money. If people are fired for wrong-doings why is the employer responsible? If he wanted to kill someone, he should of killed himself - not his family. And that women who had 8 babies went outside of Kaiser to get fertility help, as a Kaiser patient, I know that they do not pay for fertility, but now Kaiser has to pay the bills for what she did.

[Been there with Kaiser]

Doesn't surprise me about the Union & Kaiser. Only reason why Kaiser is Pro Union is because the Union sides with Kaiser HR & Upper management not the employees they are suppose to represent.
Middle management will always get away with the crap they pull on the
"uneducated hourly employees" as I have been told in the past.

[BAR]

Posted by: Errol Flynn I blame Obama.

You blame Obama? First of all, Obama has only been President for a week. He
can't fix things overnite. Second of all, lets just pray for the deceased family and give them all the support they need. Lets all keep them in our prayers!

[DA's office needs to look into this HR & Kaiser]

This is hornible & I do believe Kaiser should be legallly sued & the HR person should be sued & a criminal investigation should be filed against that person for making such unprofessional comments and causing a family to take their lives. Where is Kaiser's work & professional ethics & with such sensitive times with harships HR should be taught some psychology skills on how to handle these type of situations. This is an outrage on Kaiser. I hope that the DA's office looks into this & something good comes out of this horrific story.
Sue Kaiser & incriminate HR.

[vanillanice]

Kaiser Permanente
"May you live long and thrive"
NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ashamed to be a Kaiser member.

[Ghostwriter]

How could you blame President Obama who has only been office for 7 days today when man has always taken there own life which is the work of the devil. Yes it's time for a Change & Hope but the devil is a liar when you speak against a man that God has put in office, to lead the people out of this mess that man has cause not Black man but White man so sit back and watch God work a Miracle. We are to pray for our Leadership this is Bible they watch over us if the Leader fail then we all fail so speak what is right not what is White. May God Bless all mankind. Peace & Love

[nathan]

Oh, sure, blame Kaiser. If this guy was crazy enough to murder his 5 defenseless children, he had to have some serious issues. Kaiser could have had good reason to fire him.

[RL]

Years ago Kaiser cease to be the compassionate employer that they used to be. Today most of the top executives are from the Los Angeles banking industry when the industry took a downturn. I can't say too much more, because my wife is a long time employee and in the pass years, they have been working her to death. Take it from there, ForWhatItsWorth.

[LouLou]

This family had FIVE kids, had to WORK TWO JOBS

who took care of the kids?? while both parents worked full time?

From the photos of the house, it APPEARS they LIVED BEYOND THEIR NEEDS

and could not get used to the chance of being fired or laid off
DURING A MAJOR RECESSION, I guess they were in DENIAL the whole time
so THEY TAKE THE COWARDS WAY OUT AND USE A GUN

[kgk]

People, we have the word of a mass murderer that someone at Kaiser told him that he should have "blown his brains out." This is the same not so very credible person who phoned 911 to say that he had come home to find his family shot to death. The key fact to look at in this case is that the older children had been pulled out of school several weeks ago. You don't take your kids out of school with no plan to further their education unless you know that they won't need an education because they'll shortly be dead. That goes to premeditation. This thug had clearly been planning his attack for a while...including finding creative ways to shift some of the blame for his horrific actions on to others. Nice of him to kill his wife and then say (when she can't mount a defense) that she planned the whole thing with him. This demonically self serving piece of human excrement deserves the place in hell he is currently occupying. Anyone conveying an ounce of sympathy or empathy toward a man who would slaughter his five children is someone who does not value the lives of innocents. Nothing justifies the murder of a child...NOTHING. So don't even try.

[jalama]

Pelosi birth control on economic steriods.

[MTM]

I find it troubling that we are even considering implicating Kaiser in any way, shape or form. Regardless of the circumstances, what this man did was absolutely inexcusable. He was not a man to be pitied or anything. Had he survived, he would rightly be vilified.
A lot of us have fallen on terrible times and have not resorted to taking out our pain and fear on those we love. Many have been faced with terrible choices, but haven't succumb to such loathsome cowardice.
I pray for his family and the suffering they endured at his hands.

[cathy]

This just goes to show that our economy is really bad right now. This guy who killed his family and himself thought that was the easy way out. People have been through way worse than being layed off. I sympathize the death of this family but im not too compassionate about it because this family didn't want to work their way out of their problems. My only hope is that has things get worse before they get better, people will try to make the best out of their situation and not commit something like what this guy did.

[Ruben Haynes]

peace & Blessing go's out to both familys that now have to deal with the mess this very sick man have done. As fore the killing of the kids and wife that was wrong,mental illness,loss of job and now the world must end if this is the way people are going to do at this time in histroy then the gov need a stimulas just for counseling, Is this the change Pres OB talking about, I don't so, If his life was going so bad he should have taken his own life.(not the kids that all iam saying) hopeless&helplessness should not be felt in america much is we weast.remember when one door close one opens it always been that way.peace to the family.luv Nwk,NJ

[Jeff]

The information is not yet complete enough to assign any blame other than the two parents. It is possible that the parents had been fired for theft. It is also possible the husband had serious issues before this happened.
Kaiser did not pull the trigger here.

[greta]

some of my family members also work at the same exact west la kaiser permanente. i hope to god other dont lose their jobs and are forced other ways like this family. apparently he and his wife worked as techs and were fired last week. they feared the worst so they figured to get it over with before they had to endure the pains of losing their home.

[James]

My whole take on this economic situation that is hurting Americans all across the board stands at the feet of our government on every level, if they governed with the best interest of AMERICANS in mind, America would be at its best. Our government has lost its way, they relaxed accountability to the oath they took. and it trickled down to unpatriotic businesses, institutions, and organizations, and Americans have to foot the bill.

I personally think that every politician that can not, or will not represent the best interest of AMERICANS they should resign their post and office.

[carey]

the only saving grace about this story is that the kids soul did not feel a thing and transform straight into heaven and his soul is in a private HELL now!!!!!

[Hax Vobiscum]

I gotta go with Flynn on this one.

Murder is the most inhumane act a person can commit. Murdering your own children goes even beyond that.

When we weigh that against whatever psychic pain the murderer might have felt from losing his job, it's easy to see the gross imbalance.

Millions of people are losing their jobs around the world these days, many in very trying, unfair circumstances. Almost none respond by murdering their wives and children.

This man was either deeply mentally ill or a complete psychopath incapable of feeling any empathy whatsoever.

In EITHER case, Kaiser had nothing to do with it.

It seems safe to say Kaiser has shafted many thousands of people over the years in ways that have had devastating effects on their well-being. But that's simply not a reason to commit murder or suicide, period.

[talwith]

This just shows that Kaiser's policy of no retaliation against their employees is not true. Just look what happened when this man filed a grievance against his administrator. Now they're providing support to the employees affected by this tragedy? Too bad the family that needed that support are gone.

[George]

Someone said he represented his employment to an "outside agency" and that is what caused the trouble on his job.

[Kdogg]

i was terminated by Kaiser in 09, This is the way Kaiser handles their employees. They call you into a room and tell you sorry your services are no longer needed. I was at the same point as this poor soul was, And all this was because I stood up against management, This is how Kaiser repays those of us who have a higher moral standard, they may not have put the gun in his hand but they sure as heck put the bullets in it.

[Habu]

What is wrong with this society? Have we lost our humanity?

Why is it that the process of employment termination handled in a way that makes the employee feel worthless. When terminating, employers are guarded and keen to cover all bases. The people promoted in corporations are the kinds of people who will always do the bidding, right or wrong, of their employers. Laid off people are told to clear their desks and hand over the keys, and then the person is shown the way out. Could this be any worse?

Is it any wonder that some people snap? Loosing a job is bad enough let alone in this economy, but to do it in a cold-hearted way says volumes about this culture. People are made to feel that they are worthless! I can see why some people go 'postal.'

The notion that a laid-off person (and the family involved) will be profoundly affected is lost upon administrators, human resources and company executives. I am not talking about layoffs per se. Rather, I am referring about how to handle a lay-off, a second-worst devastating situation (after divorce), and make it easier for the grief-stricken to cope.

[Araceli G.]

A few minutes before I read this article I was talking to my roommate about the possibility of being lay-off from LAUSD this year. As i am talking to her, i was exploring a couple of job options that may be available for the type of work i do, that being social work.

These are hard times. Everyone is struggling through this economic crisis including professionals like myself. As a social worker, I feel that the media should stop promoting feelings of hopelessness and helplessness through their use of negative comments and pessimistic views. Everyone is aware that our economy is deteriorating every day, we do not have to be reminded of that. I feel that the media should definitely try to promote resources for families and employees who lack the proper coping skills to deal with crucial life situations. Resources such as helpline numbers, and counseling services should be promoted on TV in an effort to educate people about coping with this economonic crisis.

[The Wolf]

Stupid idiot! I hope that he burns in hell. If he wanted to take his own life, that's fine. I'm ok with putting yourself out of your misery and sparing us all the hassle of having to deal with one more tortured soul out there.

However, why kill your 5 innocent children and wife? Why deny them the opportunity at life? This guy had a demon in him! That's the only thing that I can say would cause this type of demented behavior.

[Marie Love]

People, please let's not blame this on politics. First and foremost, Obama has not been in office a month. This is just another tragic incident ,that we as a whole need to address. A positive solution can start with one's self. I challenge you to reach out to family,friends, and neighbors to uplift them on a daily basis. All people are feeling the economic crisis. We have to start by helping one another and not placing blame.

[Ms. Mee]

Still it was the man who did the killing. This is NOT the way to solve problems. I have lived in my car and had nothing but instead of 'being a victim' and blaming others (and yes, people and employers have done me wrong too - as most people will experience at one point or another in their lives!) I chose to take action, look for options, thinking positive and working the hardest I could using any opportunity!!! Now life is great!!! I am happy & strong (for having been challenged and prevailed) and have zero sympathy for those (no matter what the excuse!) that kill others or themselves. Stop blaming the world and instead use that time to think about how you can improve yourself. No excuses!!!

[RetPoliceChief]

Is there a more trashy outfit than Kaiser in the entire world?

[tatateeta]

I wonder why they were both fired? Termination is not the same as a lay off. Were they refusing to do certain things because of their religious beliefs? Didn't George Bush recently change the labor regulations?
But if they were charismatic Christians wouldn't they get support from their church?

[Joy]

People lose their jobs every day, and many of them have children and families to support as well. Blaming anyone other than the gunman is absolutely ridiculous. We all struggle and go through hard times, and there are countless resources out there to help familes who are struggling.

Killing your own children is disgusting and unforgivable.

[Anne]

What did Kaiser think would happen if both parents lost their income?

[amigo]

I don't think a couple working in the same company should be terminated together. I know this is contrary to the basic idea of capitalism, but come on! Is it sooo hard to be a little easier on fellow humans? An executive's bonus can supply such a family for a whole year.

[GH]

To the Melissa and Loulou. Both of you are pretty heartless. First of all, 5 children are dead and you say, 'who cares" and you also state it's no surprise because it happens in California. This type of thing happens across the United States. It's amazing the cold, heartless comments people can make on the internet but I wonder are they willing to say that kind of thing in person. Wonder who the cowards really are.

And Loulou, how do you know they lived beyond their needs. You have a "they got what they deserve" mentality. Maybe they did or maybe they didn't. I knew them personally. I didn't speak with them often, so I can't comment on that but they seemed to be good people, caring people.

This kind of thing can happen anywhere, to anyone, at anytime so don't go off passing judgement of people.

When I first moved into the area, he gave me a bottle of champaign and a cake. They had adorable children so maybe I'm being a little sensitive and I take it personal when people say things like "who cares" and "hey were living beyond their means"

First of all, they had two sets of twins so instead of 3 kids to raise they had 5. Second, they were hardworking people. Circumstances change. Many people are having challenges including myself. My wife worked in real estate as an Escrow officer. She was on medical due to surgery from Jan 07 through Apr 07. She suffered a paycut in Oct 07 and was laid off in June 2008. We've went through what savings we had to save our home and that's the tip of the iceberg. But our story is not unique. It's happening across the country. Bottom line, things change. It may appear that people are living beyond their means, but things happen. And as much as you plan, some things can't be avoided.

It was wrong for Tony (the name I knew him by) to what he did. It hurts both my wife and myself more because we knew them and their kids. I would never say the things both of you have said regardless of how people are living or where they live. It's not important. It's that kind of thought process that some employers and lenders have that can create this situation.

We can't hold Kaiser completely responsible simply because we don't know all the facts yet. However, there are ways you handle people. There is no easy way to tell someone "we have to let you" (from your job), but there are gentle ways and there are harsh ways...and those harsh ways can create dangerous situations.

All I can say is people are having hard times. Some are stronger and find ways to survive. Others are pushed into a corner where they feel there's no option. Some like myself fight back, others are so beaten by the system, they feel they have no options. Maybe I'm wrong but I close by saying what happened was caused by the lack of compassion, the lack of our humanity. We need understanding right now and not criticism and not judgement. Hopefully what happened on my block doesn't happen anywhere else. Hopefully it's a lesson that we value and perhaps use it as an example of how to act in the future.

[tann]

Someone need to find out who fired that guy and said blow your brains out they need to be fired and be prosecuted for aiding and abating murder

[Mr. Smith]

To all the morons blaming Obama: Twenty of the last twenty-eight years have been under Republican administrations, therefore the evidence is overwhelming that Ronald Reagan, George Bush Sr., and W. Bush are the cause of this tragedy. Do you think that is stupid reasoning? Look in the mirror because blaming Obama here makes even less sense than that since he's been president for like a week. Unless you factor in Reagan's and the Bushes' anti-union stances and policies like cutting the budget and manpower for labor law enforcement for example. Why do you think they didn't do much to curb the flow of illegal immigration? More people, especially in low-skilled and unskilled jobs, means more supply of employees equals lower wages, worse benefits. Also consider that illegal immigrants can't even have their day in court if their employer screws them over.

As for unions in LA: I was a member of a nationwide union that did little to nothing for me when I was fired for being late six times in one year, one time was two-one-hundredths of an hour, .02 of an hour (one minute and twelve seconds), another time was one-hundredth (thirty six seconds; BTW if the clock is off .02/hour I'm on time twice), the other three times were approximately five minutes with one time being about fifteen minutes. When I was terminated two people were required to replace me because of the amount of work I performed. I was later told I was made an example of to prove how tough the new boss was so working hard and union representation doesn't mean you can't get the axe. In a large East Coast city the same union came to my work area to confront the same nationwide company (I later worked for them again) over false accusations of petty theft hours after I called them. Unions in LA, in my experience, are a joke. If someone wants to fire you in LA it's pretty much going to happen, union or no union. So don't paint LA area unions with the same broad brush of stronger unions elsewhere, they seem to exist as window dressing in my experience.

If you want to blame the president start with Reagan, he started this anti-union, pro-employer path we're on (remember when he fired the air traffic controllers? All of them?) where people with nothing of value in the marketplace but their labor are at the mercy of employers and a court system which generally has an anti-employee, pro-employer bias by design. No wonder there are hourly employees that get depressed and desperate.

[commonsense247]

So two people are terminated from their jobs for nefarious activity and resort to irrational and senseless homicide of their children and suicide... and the company that fired them is to blame for PUSHING THEM OVER THE EDGE?
Look people, wake up and take some responsibility for your lives, your actions, and stop blaming everything and everyone else for what you do when tragic situations occur in your lives... especially when in this case it appears the Lupoes were to blame for their own firings.

THIS STORY IS NOT ABOUT A SOURING ECONOMY AND THE PRESSURE OF LOSING ONE'S JOB.

Those who love to blame business, worship unions, and accept no responsibility for their actions have twisted this story into a treatise for their liberal ideologies.

[Bianca Pinjarra]

What a sad story. A permamnent solution to a temporary problem isn't the answer, though.

It sounds like this man and his wife may have been inappropriately fired. It is such a shame that they did not choose the legal system to fight back if there was, indeed, any inpropriety on the company's part. US law prevents firing because you are whistleblower, etc. if that was truly the case here.

I was laid off during the last big recession in 2002 from a large medical center/hospital system in NJ and my family and I were able to survive. Although it was certainly a difficult time, we learned to manage through it.

[sad-n-confused]

GOD please bless this world these weak people and these mean and rude people this is not good this was not supossed to happen... I am an employee at kaiser and I knew Ervin and this makes me so sad and scared this is proof that we are in trouble please trust me when i say that there will be more like Ervin and his family... I hate that they had to feel the way that they did and to think that they were alone without any help. I wish that I could have helped and I would have this is so unfair those poor babies GOD please have mercy please...to kaiser I dont know what to say I cant believe that someone would say a thing like that to someone else how dare you I know that you must feel real stupid now which you should you have the blood of that family on your hands... Im not saying that it is kaiser fault but what im saying is that you are wrong to treat somone that way and you are part to blame..... you never know just maybe if kaiser would have handled things different then the family maybe would still be alive how does that make youfeel we are going thriugh a crisis now in 2009 I didnt think that it was as major as it is but now I see that it is....GOD please bless over his family and help them to come to peace with this GOD bless their souls.... and may ERVIN..ANA..BRITTNEY..JAZSMIN..JASSELY..BENJAMIN..& CHRISTIAN REST IN PEACE.......

[Mohammed Fouwaaz]

Oh this is a horrible tragedy. What is society coming to? It seems that we have failed as a species to protect our own. Our systems have developed serious flaws in its fundamental moorings. Let us collectively step back and think. Take a moment to look at things impartially. May us have the strength to take bold decisions of change.

Tears cloud my eyes looking at pictures of this beautiful family. What in this life is more important than life itself?

[phoenixandrew]

Regardless of who you think deserves the most blame, I think we can all agree that Ervin Antonio Lupoe was very selfish and evil in taking his frustrations out on his innocent family. I don't believe his assertion in his suicide note to KABC that his wife joined in the planning of this massacre. I believe she was a victim of murder just as much as their children and that Ervin is the sole murderer.

At the same time, I also believe that Kaiser Permanente handled the unlucky couple's employment situation badly and unprofessionally. Many current and former employees at Kaiser have complained about the lousy conditions their employer has subjected them to. The supervisor who told Ervin to "blow his brains out" should be terminated and prosecuted. It also seems that hostility to employees from petty and unprofessional low to mid level supervisors is the chief culprit to the stress employees face.

The bottom line: the Devil may be in the American workplace.

[Tommy]

We can all agree that Mr. Lupoe’s actions were unfortunate, and that an underlying mental sickness may have been partly to blame. Also, while the details of his fax may be unsubstantiated claims at this point, I must say I believe them to be true.

I just found out about this travesty today. I have a close family member who has had similar experiences with Kaiser Permanente management at two of the Greater Los Angeles Area hospitals. These managers were not suitably skilled at their jobs, nor were they tactful in defusing situations like Mr. Lupoe’s. This sentiment is shared by many, in fact. I was told that many quality employees had been terminated or coerced to leave by said management. What I am saying is not closed-door information; listen to the conversations in the cafeteria during lunch. Seriously. I greatly urge the media to expose some of KP’s practices of dealing with unqualified management, the hiring and screening processes of these managers, and what type of disciplinary action/accountability these managers are subject to. This is not out solely out of vengeance or malice towards Kaiser—it is a good hospital with talented employees. I think that you would agree with me that staff of these management officials affects the quality of care through the loss of employees (not able to vouch for Lupoe himself), negative media attention, and low staff morale.

If the media makes a public call for witnesses and victims, they will be surprised at how many legitimate cases they will find. I guarantee it.

[Blossom]

So many of these comments are an indicator of how our society thinks. Yes times are tough, yes everybody is having a hard time, but for crying outl loud, you don't go murder your whole family. Sue, sue, sue, let's sue everybody because we can't take responsibility for our own actions. Of course it's tragic. Of course it's sad, but was that course of action even logical. People have become so self pitying that they don't use their God-given abilities to change their life's course. If you think you've been wronged then forge on with your cause. That's how bad things get changed. Get strong, get angry, or step back, reevaluate the situation, and go get a job at Costco until you can figure out what your going to do. Sometimes people need to stop and ask themselves, what is the worse that can happen from this situation and what can I learn from this? I speak from deep experience when I say that the bad times are usually not as dark as you believe.

[teachmesome]

We as Americans have been living off the hog for years. Try going to another country and see how it is. So now we are crying because we have to make some sacrifices? Who says the gov is responsible for our well being? You are only responsible for yourself in life. People do not kill other people over jobs, etc. ( at least not sane ones and especially not the people you claim to love) I think some of the comments I see on here come from people who are crazier than this guy???SCARY!!!!!

[BWitt]

Corporations good and bad are NOT responsible for this horrible act.

This lunatic is.

Come on people - murdering children and you have sympathy? That way madness lies.

[Joe]

Ervin Antonio Lupoe was loser,a man promoted beyond his brains ,means and talents.Simply because he was black..his life and his families was destoyed because of political correctness.He is the ultimate example of the Peter Principal.May he rot in hell.

[LAGirl]

Shame on you Kaiser. These were employees who worked for you for 10 years. Obviously exemplary employees or they would have not worked for you for so many years. Apparently they were not forthcoming re an issue about childcare (according do you). What does this have to do with work ethics or skills? Affordable (let alone any) childcare is very difficult to find, if at all. You are a disgrace to healthcare. Shame on you. I sincerely hope that the California State Medical Board (to which I will send a letter re this and advise any other person to do) and anybody else who will investigate you and take the appropriate action. I would never wish anybody to seek health services in any such facility as yours which has such a totally unfeeling and unsympathetic attitude.

[Wasanemployee]

I worked for KP for a few years. Found the administration excellent, however my immediate supervisor was not. I moved on. However, I always felt the rank and file were well represented by their union reps. And KP has in my opinion tried very hard to work with the union reps. As a manager I found my self at odds with my Department manager when employee's faced disiplinary action. I thought some employee's actions didn't warrant a higher level of disiplinary action. They have a 5 step plan. It needs to be well documented, and believe me, no management that I worked with took employee relations lightly. I cannot believe a KP manager would tell an employee to "blow their brains out". I have met in the past with Kasier West LA managers. I felt they were decent sorts, but never worked directly under them. I can tell you, Kaiser puts a their managers through a lot of training, more than any other healthcare organization I have worked with (30 years in the field). They will not be forth coming with information about the termination, as it is obviously priveledged and confidential. Simply put It's a man with a gun, who made a tragic mistake. No matter the circumstances! How can anyone take life so lightly? I pray for their extended family.

[MaryLA]

C'mon people, nothing can justify what this man has done. Life is so precious and he robbed his children of the miracle. Times are hard for everyone, it's a constant struggle, where's the faith? I'm not preaching here, but if this guy was way clouded by his circumstances to not see straight. Pick yourself up and keep on going. For every single person out there who struggles, keep moving, keep walking, don't lose hope!!!! There's no justification for his actions. Don't blame the organization, it's all around us, it could have happened anywhere, it's easy to point the finger, but I agree, this man was not a victim, the victims were those innocent children, who lay there unable to defend themselves against the vicious beast of a "father", who knows what part their "mother" played... actions unimaginable... God will have mercy on those precious children.