Prop. 8 boycott talk spreads to movies and more

The boycott effort against businesses whose owners backed Proposition 8 appears to be picking up steam.

Dozens of groups have sprouted up on Facebook.com urging its members to boycott businesses -- restaurants, jewelry stores, car-repair shops and more. Other activists have gone onto Yelp.com and other business rating sites, posting messages telling users which restaurants donated to the "Yes on 8" campaign.

There has also been talk of a boycott of the Cinemark movie chain, whose CEO gave money to "Yes on 8." This could have a major effect on the Sundance Film Festival, which uses the chain's theaters to show movies.

The actions have alarmed supporters of Prop. 8, which banned gay marriage in California.

"Since Proposition 8’s victory, a series of protests against churches, small businesses and individual supporters of traditional marriage have taken place in cities across the state," Ron Prentice, chairman of ProtectMarriage.com, wrote in a statement. "Tragically, some opponents of Prop. 8 who claim to cherish tolerance and civil rights are unabashedly trampling on the rights of others. Protests and boycotts have taken place against a Hispanic restaurant owner in Los Angeles, African American religious leaders in the Bay Area, and a musical theater director in Sacramento, among many others."

Robert Hoehn, vice president of Hoehn Motors in San Diego County, gave $25,000 of his own money to the Yes-on-8 campaign in February. And he called what followed “a really really ugly experience.”

Before the vote, Hoehn said, he he received “dozens and dozens and dozens of really vitriolic messages” and his Honda dealership was picketed.  Since the proposition won, he said, he has received a few messages and phone calls denouncing his support for the measure.

It started with a handful of restaurants including L.A. institution El Coyote, where one of the owners contributed money to the "Yes on 8" campaign. Gay-rights activists have threatened a boycott, but the owners say so far they have not noticed a drop in business. The restaurants targeted include chains such as El Pollo Loco, Burger King, Outback Steakhouse, Yard House and more.

There is now chatter about a "gay day off," in which activists would simply not buy anything.

--Cara Mia DiMassa, Tami Adbollah and Shelby Grad

Photo: No on Prop 8 supporters protest at L.A. restaurant El Coyote.  Lori Shepler/Los Angeles Times.

Comments

[Liza]

no on 8!!!!!!! 8 has nothing to do with churches thats plain dumb now the GBLT are not asking to get marrie at a religious church so why put the church in it the supporters for prop 8 are just homophobics but now if you are white and running for 8 should we judge you for being white and discriminate or maybe you are hispanic or black or what ever or maybe you have a green eye n a blue one make some sense if no one judges you why judge?????????? now pro 8 has nothing to do with schools and teaching thats dumb n maybe if it was true its the year 2008 not 1960 maybe its time for kids to know, like that no kid will be make fun of or be pushed around we are all gods kids we need to show love n respect to recieve !!!

enough said

~Liza

[phillip777]

Just posting my support folks. I am boycotting prop8 supporting businesses for life.

[Timothy]

For Lamotte -

What a poor excuse for a man.....a black man at that! Maybe you would understand if your rights to vote, or marry were overturned by your fellow citizens - something that should never have happened. You obviously have learned nothing from the great civil rights leaders whose only commonality with you is your skin tone. How sad that is.

[jlars]

seperate but equal IS NOT EQUAL! civil unions are not the same as marriage, why is it so hard not just let gay people live their lives in the same comfort and equality as straight people?

[big mike]

Those of us against prop 8, here is another story that is starting to unfold and I am learning to channel my hate and anger into a constructive use. Years ago the people of California voted down a major water project for the central valley - the peripheral canal. This would have taken water from the Sacramento River Delta and delivered it to the farms in the central valley.

Well, they are asking for it again. They want to use our money to build the project. Many of these are the same people that voted for Prop H8. The central valley and Kern county were BIG supporters of Prop H8.

This issue will be coming up in the next year or two. And there are many good reasons to say no to this project, both environmental and fiscal, I also direct my anger at those who denied me my Equal Rights.

Google "peripheral canal" and learn more about the current project. Find out which politicians support it and TELL THEM NO! and when election times come, be sure to VOTE!, but also get out there and be visible. Join phone banks calling to inform people why this is a bad project. Support candidates against this project. There will be alot of money promoting this building project, so a massive grass roots effort will be needed.

SEND A MESSAGE TO THOSE WHO TOOK AWAY OUR RIGHTS, THAT THEY SHOULD THINK WHEN THEY VOTE.

[dukeduke]

Some says there are Mormons out there that voted against Prop 8. There are employees who voted against Prop 8, but their business owner donated money to Prop 8. People call for civility and ask people not to protest their businesses and churches. Some claim to be on the fence about Prop 8, because they are more civil and accept views from both sides. I say Hog Wash!!!

Accepting views and respecting people's views is one thing, sitting idly by while passage of such a hateful bill happened is shameful. If you see atrocity happens and you turn the other way as not to see it, you are just as guilty. When hateful lynching of blacks happened back during the civil rights days happened and people stayed behind shut doors, they are passively endorsing such acts. Discrimination against blacks, jews, gays, and any other group of people should not be tolerated. People how are on the fence about Prop 8 should take a stand now and say, "hey, I believe the rights for a man and a woman to get married, but to impose laws to prevent others from seeking the same happiness is simply hateful." Allowing blacks to get on the same bus, but making them sit in the back is not the same. Civil Unions without full marriage rights is not the same.

When protesters boycott a business, they are not protesting the employees, they are protesting against a business that supports hate. They don't want any of their money to go towards passage of other hateful measures in the future. They have nothing against the employees, but they have problems with the employer. Employees should think about what they do when they support hateful businesses. Is their job worth passage of hateful laws that affect millions? When people take to the street and protest against a church, they are not protesting against all church goers. Church goers who believe their church has acted in hate and vindictiveness should question if they should support the same church. Sometimes following blindly behind an evil doer is the same as condoning its actions. Yes, there are good people on all sides of the aisles, but a protest by people who has been pushed down too many times is a protest against the institutions and businesses that allows such hate to go on. I think the boycott and protest should continue indefinitely until all human beings who claim to be treated as equal actually gets EQUAL rights.

[dukeduke]

There should never have been a bill allowed to be voted based on hate. Even for those who do not believe religion should be forced to accept marriage between anyone other than a man and a woman, they should not be allowed to press their believes beyond their church and to take away rights from other people (who may or may not choose to get married). In doing so, it's a direct attack on gay people - saying gay people are not equal. Gay people have to pay taxes like everyone else and support the economy like everyone else, but passage of Prop 8 clearly say that gay people are less than equal. Prop 8 was not a protection of marriage - marriage is not in danger. Prop 8 is discrimination masked under the veil of protectionism. It's not protecting anything, because marriage is never threatened by people who decide to marry themselves. When the church pushes its believe on people outside of the church, people should have the right to push back.

Some of those haters and backers for prop 8 likes to point out snippets of incidences with protesters and people who are tired of being beaten down, as excuses to retaliate should realize that if they commit a criminal act or a violent act against any person, they have the law to answer to. When a small group of people gets beaten down tries to get back up and to find that they got beaten down again; eventually, enough is enough. I am proud of those who protest against a strong and powerful church that dare to take their rights away through prop 8. Like any movement and civil rights movement, it takes standing up against the oppressors to get your civil rights..

Boycott prop 8 supporters.. I called to cancel my membership with jetblue and Marriott hotels. You should ask owners of every businesses where you spend your money if they supported prop 8 with donations. It's your money that they spend on passage of Prop 8. Stay clear of Walmart, Sams Club, and others like them that clearly discriminate against gays and lesbians. After all, everyone on this earth should be treated equal. Need I say more that the KKK and the Neo Nazis supported Prop 8 too? Shame on the church for aligning themselves with such hate groups.

[Tom]

The Term "Gay Mafia" has become painfully clear to me after this election, especially in Hollywood! The Gay communities reaction to the will of the majority in a Democratic election will only make the percentage much worse the next time they go crying to the Court justices in San Francisco and we have to vote on this again! Remember,this vote was in California, the most liberal and progressive of all states. Your actions will turn most moderates further against you now. Keep up the good work!

[DJ Booga]

I do not live in California, but it was a state I always viewed as tolerant and a place that gave reassurance to all of us who have to live with the restrictions imposed on us by the poisonous mixture of church and state. In Georgia, I had a double whammy. My choice to remain a Catholic opened me to the derision of my 5th grade teacher in the 1960s who considered Catholics nonchristians and Jews as Christ killers. Her opinions of impending school desegregation were no more negative. She commented to us she couldn't use the "n" word the next year when teaching about the Civil War. She had such a sunny outlook, don't you think?

I expect nothing but bigotry from states such as Florida, Arizona, and Arkansas, but California was always different. I knew that in California people like me would be generally safer and could live our lives as a freer people. I was overjoyed when California's Supreme Court recognised us as free, equal Americans. I don't know if my late lover and I would have married, but it would have been nice to have the right when he was alive.

When Prop 8 passed, it was like finding out Mother Teresa was a murdering whore. I don't wish to boycott California, but I will not buy services or products linked to companies I know to have helped return us to second class status. I have stated this to my friends and relatives. I don't argue for a boycott, but offer the idea they have other options. I can buy fruit and vegetables grown in other states and countries. I don't have to buy California wines when perfectly good alternatives exist with other states and countries. It is one of the benefits of NAFTA, I suppose. It isn't about discriminating against religious people, but it is my right not to give money to people who do not accept me as equal. I have no personal use for religion, but I do not begrudge believers their personal beliefs even though religion is a conscious choice. The majority of California's voters have broken my heart.

[James]

I just saw the "Fair Warning" thing from the guy above. I am gay, I have a gun and I ASSURE YOU I AM BETTER TRAINED WITH IT AND A BETTER SHOT WITH IT THAN YOU ARE... But what do you excect from an Ex-Military Sniper? I guess my point is...don't think for a second that we cannot defend ourselves...or that I will not defend my peers. That is all.

[Michael]

To those who caused the LA riot and celebrated when OJ was sentenced not guilty, you have a very twisted moral standard. You probably should go to school more and go to church less.

[Julia]

I voted YES on 8 because, at the end of the day, I believe in a traditional definition of marriage. Civil partnerships that offer the same legal rights as marriage are a good thing but a complete redefinition of marriage is too much to ask. Labeling all Yes on 8 supporters as "hateful" is way off the mark. I, and many of my my fellow Yes on 8 supporters have no hatred for the gay community. I could even sympathize with them before this vote but in the aftermath my sympathy is being whittled away. The constant cry of "HATE! H8! BIGOTRY!" and the belittlement of Christianity and religion reeks of intolerance and hatred from the other side.

[Bill]

By the way, for those quoting that "54% voted for Prop. 8", keep up with the current ballot counts. Almost two million ballots remain to be counted and the "yes" vote is down to 52%. The spread is only 500k votes so there could be a surprise for those celebrating Prop. 8's "passage".

[Bill]

The interesting thing about all the whining about the gay community choosing to boycott businesses that supported Prop. H8 is that it was the PRO Prop 8 group who sent letters to businesses who had opposed Prop. 8 BEFORE the election ever took place threatening a boycott unless the businesses made TEN THOUSAND DOLLAR donations to the Pro side. That wasn't just a threat of a boycott, they were attempting to BLACKMAIL businesses into supporting their views. How come the LA Times isn't talking about that side of the story??

[sandy]

Any person of color supporting Prop 8 should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. You are walking with the devil. Tolerance and equality are the foundation of real Christianity. Not the man made abomination that some religions call Christianity. Your rational is self-serving, intolerant and phobic.

Sounds like the old days when we were the brunt of this evil behavior!

Shame on you!

[amelia]

I keep telling myself i will stop reading the comments of these articles, because it's enraging...but it's like a car accident, i just have to look. I know it's no use telling all these undereducated bigots,that they will one day be so ashamed when they realize how hateful and disgusting they are for voting against the rights of an entire group. TO ALL THE GAY AND STRAIGHT PEOPLE:BLACK PEOPLE ARE GAY.LATINOS ARE GAY. ASIANS ARE GAY. WHITE PEOPLE ARE GAY.CHRISTIANS ARE GAY. We are EVERYWHERE. So when you blame the black community, you are so ignorant...i have so many black gay friends...stop alienating everyone...it was a community loss, not just a loss for white gays, you idiots. As a Latina lesbian, I am enraged that the No on 8 campaign didnt even campaign in the Latino and Black communities..instead you preached to the choir. My entire CHRISTIAN family (and all the Christians i know) voted AGAINST prop 8..because they are good Christians who understand that the struggle of one group, will always be our struggle too. It's so sad to see such hate. I dont hate anyone who voted yes, but rather, it saddens me that have not evolved into good people, loving and unjudging...one day i will be able to marry the love of my life...the people who are trying to stop that from being a reality are very very sad, hurt, miserable, complacent, undereducated people..and my heart goes out to you, maybe one day you will know what it feels like to be truly happy, loved, and when that day comes, you will want everyone to have the right to marry.

[Zebo]

The first line of this article stated that the boycots appeared to be "picking up steam." Frankly, I think there is some evidence to the contrary and I can't help but wonder if Cara Mia DiMassa, Tami Adbollah and Shelby Grad just "want" it to pick up steam (the two are not the same).

I had dinner this evening at El Coyote (theoretically now being boycotted). It seemed like business as usual; and not a protestor in sight. Oh, and apparently there were "No on Prop 8" people eating at the table right next to ours. Kinda hard to make a statement when no one makes a statement.

Since at least 54% of the state supported Prop 8 (in at least one very meaningful way: voting), it sure seems that boycotting those who did so is not a realistic reaction to the events of November 4.

Oh and with regards to a "gay day off" - perhaps it's time for a little "we're tired of government gone awry day off"...

http://ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2008-10-12-1.html

[big mike]

The focus of the arguments against gay marriage is religious, based on the bible......Do these people read the bible or do they just recite what they are told? Granted there are sections of the bible that do not condone homosexuality. But what about other issues, slavery, sex slaves and adultery, to mention a few. Slavery, would we dare bring that up?????? Read Leviticus 25:44-46, Exodus 21:2-6 and 21:7-11. And adultery, the man gets off, but the women gets stoned. Well those were different times, weren't they. Please people..........God is a just God, a compassionate God. He gave man eyes to see with, ears to hear with, a heart to feel with and a mind to think with. These were gifts to mankind.

[Scott]

Boycotting and protesting are not acts of intolerance. They are as important to the democratic process as voting. Lamonette wrote:

"I am a prop 8 supporter, a black male, and a arm citizen. I went to the poll and cast a legal vote in favor of prop 8. Now, the gay rights movement is threatning our churches and community. We are ready for you. You bring the noise to us, noise you WILL get back in return. I especially didn't like the fact that some gay people assaulted a female senior citizen. We ARE prepared to deal with you should you decide to come in our community and threaten to vandalize our churches. This is fair warning."

No one is threatenting you. This is called peaceful protest, something you should know about! And the story about a gay person assaulting a female senior citizen is an ugly myth as far as I know. I have not seen any factual support for this. Plus, if a black man did that, would you want people blaming African Americans as a whole? Of course not!

I cannot believe you are falling for the same shameless tactics that bigots have used to keep African Americans down for centuries! I seem to remember a little story during the election about a woman who claimed to have been raped by a black man for being an Obama supporter. Of course, it was false, and she was arrested for filing a false police report. Wake up!!! You are participating in the same tactics!

One last quick note: El Coyote's business is certainly hurting. I live right near there and pass by it all the time. Since the boycott, is has been empty! It used to be packed pretty much all the time.

[amelia]

Just so you know, we do not have the same rights as every other American. They were just taken from us on Nov 4th. Now we have a nicely packaged civil union/domestic partnership that was made "especially" for us, because while we're all equal we're not quite equal enough to have the same special package. You get the straight package and we get the gay package. It more or less has the same things inside, it just sounds DIFFERENT, BUT trust me its THE SAME.

Please look up SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
if you must keep bringing up the bible
Please look up MATTHEW 7:12
and for good measure JOHN 13:34-35
These are all in the new testament. The one where Jesus made a big appearance. Jesus, who's main purpose was to forgive everyone everyone's since but before he got to doing that he had to set everyone straight because people were killing each other left and right and much hate was filling the world at the time because they were following the Old Testament word-for-word.

BUT IF YOU MUST STILL follow that old testament so religiously and keep quoting good old leviticus then, Please look up
(Lev 11: 9-12)
(Deut 22:11)
(Lev 20:27)
(Lev 21:14)
(Lev 20:18 ff)
(Lev. 20:10)
(Lev. 25:44–46)

So in short, if you wish to be such fervent supporters of the bible and YOUR religion, why don't you stop eating red meat(Leviticus said so), sleeping with your secretary(you'll be stoned to death), eating any seafood(because sea creatures are an abomination), or continue to fight for your RIGHT to keep slaves, or stop throwing around Jesus' name when you're angry? Because if we listen to that good ol' bible we can stone you to death and declare YOU an abomination on almost all counts.

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

[westminsterabs]

Let everyone who recognizes that civilizations throughout history actually have had GOOD REASONS for understanding marriage to be the union of a man and a woman make use of these boycott lists to SUPPORT AND PATRONIZE the businesses listed there.

[Jeff]

I love it. The Yes on 8 people are now whining and crying about boycotts, saying they're "unfair", "mean-spirited" and likening them to with hunts.

Newsflash: You guys have been doing the same thing to the gay community and our supporters for decades. In fact, this past summer, you even boycotted McDonald's over their refusal to "to stay neutral in the cultural war over homosexuality."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/03/AR2008070303769.html

Where was your outrage over unfairness and mean-spiritedness then?

Thanks so much for pointing out your own bald-faced hypocrisy. Typical.

[Sean]

"Tragically, some opponents of Prop. 8 who claim to cherish tolerance and civil rights are unabashedly trampling on the rights of others."

There's another right, called the Freedom of Speech. People on both sides have the right to protest, boycott anything they wish to do so and use whatever criteria they decide. To take the right of marriage away from another group then claim right abuses yourself, when their isn't any law-defined right that's being trampled on, is just hypocrisy. Any business, group, or other entity which is deemed offensive by a another can be boycotted or protested in legal forms. Disneyland is called by some religious groups to be boycotted for their pro-gay policies. Does Disneyland still do so, its their decision. A business owner can vote their conscious at the polls (secrecy applied), but contributions are public and go beyond a basic right to have no consequences applied to you from any part of your community.

If you set up shop in low-income area, but then show more than usual support that offends part of the make-up of that area, there can be consequences.

In Westminster's Little Saigon area a video shop owner put up a picture of Ho Chi Minh upsetting many in the community. Protests were staged, the business suffered, but the owner persisted and so the community persisted in its protest. Eventually the issue resolved itself as police found that the owner was counterfeiting video content.

There are consequences to the things you do publicly, people can protest vocally and with their purse strings as it is their right to do so.

[Admin]

I'm starting a site to boycott businesses that gave money for NO on Prop 8
http://www.boycottprop8nosupporters.com
All YES on Prop 8 voters unite and vote now with your dollars!

[Dave]

I voted yes for prop 8 because the dictionary defines a Marriage as "the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law"

HOWEVER, I would support a law that would allow gays to join in a "UNION" or "DOMESTIC PARTNERSHIP" or some other phrase. I dont think changing the definition of Marrige is the answer.

[chris]

Some said they supported 8, and would boycott those who didn't... a two way street?
It seems that Gays have more disoable income than the ideal threats of our counter parts.
And in this economy... we'll see who cries "UNCLE" 1st.
As a Gay Married MAN (Prop 8 has made my marriage "Special" and I'm going to SUE to have a marriage just like all the Hetros have... AKA EQUAL) I will totally support the Blacklist of the "Yes on 8" Supporters.
for more info on this list go to http://antigayblacklist.com/

[bigge mike]

We should also remember that Florida has also passed the same......Boycott Florida.....Florida orange juice, disneyworld, miami beach, even Key west (I sorry conchs)

[Paul]

The religious wing has used boycotts for years to try and persuade companies to change thier views if they were contradictory to thiers. They boycotted Disney because the company supperted a Gay day at their parks. How is what gays are doing now any different. If it is okay for one day why is it so bad when the next day it is used against them. There is no violation of anyones rights. People have a right to purchase from companies they want to. I have never purchased anything from JC Penny ever since they pulled their advertising from Ellen's sitcom in the 90's. People should shop with their beliefs in mind.

[skigirl]

Please, please boycott Utah this winter. The best dry powder on earth, all for me..... Make that summer too: the trails have been getting pretty crowded.

[Legin]

Anti-gay groups like the "American Family Association" have for years organized boycotts against gay-friendly businesses. Some of them have been successful. The people who are now complaining about the anti-prop 8 boycotts presumably see nothing wrong with that sort of campaign. Is it that boycotts only bad when they are directed against homophobes? I say all power to the 'no on 8' campaign, use all the economic muscle you have to hit back as hard as you can. The demonstrations are good for publicity but the real results will come when those who thought that they could carry out a hit and run campaign against gays realize that there are real monetary consequences to their actions.

[Tim H]

The Supreme Court was right to over-turn Prop 22. A democratic system protects and enshrines the rights of citizens, and the foundation of America's system is the individual citizen's right of sovereignty over his or her own life. Prop 22 and now Prop 8 deny homosexuals sovereignty over their own lives. I am hopefully that the Supreme Court will overturn Prop 8 in defence of the rights of all Californians and in defence of true democracy. But if it does not, if it and the legislature ultimately bows to the mob rule of Prop 8, then it will only be a temporary set-back.

62% of Californians voted against liberty and equality in 2000. 52% voted against liberty and equality this time. If that trend continues, there will be a majority in support of liberty and equality as soon as 2010. That majority will then pass a ballot measure enshrining equal marriage rights for homosexual citizens, an initiative to guarantee gay people the sovereignty currently denied to them. The bigots' victory is only temporary. For now, let all those who voted Yes on Prop 8 be consumed by their own hatred and despotism as they pass into history, to join their soul mates in the KKK, the Nazi Party, the Inquisition, etc.

[James]

I am not to taking sides on proposition 8 itself, I have many friends on both sides of the issue and I quite frankly, am undecided. I can tell you there are a lot of mormons out there who are more sympathetic towards gay rights and who voted against prop. 8 too so it's not like the whole church is anti-gay or something. But since the people of California voted on the issue and the prop 8 passed, I have been disgusted by some people's reaction of it. Some going so far as to vandalizing churches, yelling obscenities at innocent people who probably never even heard of prop 8 until this week as they walk into church facilities, and mailing white powdery substances to church offices.

Targeting people because they believe one thing or another, and putting everyone affiliated with an organization, religion, etc. and boycotting them altogether just because of their affiliation even though they had nothing themselves to do with prop 8 and may even be on their side in the first place is wrong. That is complete stupidity right there.

To single out the mormon church in this is wrong too. They were only one of many religions supporting prop. 8 which had a lot of Catholic and Jewish support as well among others. So what? Does that mean we should be boycotting them as well? Of course not.

It's fine to be upset about not getting your way, but don't single out everyone who has an affilation to something when they may very well have had nothing to do with it in the first place and could even be on your side. Churches don't speak for all of their members on the issues.

Boycotting doesn't solve anything. Do something useful instead.

[Rob]

My friends and I support Prop 8 and we will make sure to frequent as many businesses as possible to help support them. This is not about hate, it's about the sanctity of marriage. Civil Unions give all the "rights" that married couples have except one, transfer of debt. The voters of California have voted twice.
Protesting is your right and I do not denounce those that are against Prop 8, but trying to shut down business hurts everyone. The more you hate, the more hate comes back to you. Second Class citizens...Bah!

[Forgiven]

Wow! This is not easy being a member of the body of Christ and as an individual who choose to honor the convictions of the Holy Spirit with regards to the life i was living, i understand that the church has now found itslef in a place where they are reaping what they sowed....BUT that does not mean I will back down from my stance on this...I see individuals on both sides fighting on issues that honestly one day we will all give account on the day of judgement cause that day is coming...I once found myself belonging and actively in a gang where i was openly gay and sold dope and partied all the time...There were times as a part of the gang life where i seen that the Gang wars and the dopeselling was just people fighting to have their way...Honestly people are gonna choose to live with whats best for them...Its sad that the church and the Gay Community are just fighting with each other...because thats all it is a Fierce Cat fight between the Gay community and the Religious community...There was a time i wanted to boycott all the places that supported Homosexuality...but i said to myself this is silly...I am just gonna live life and focus on myself and speak my mind and i will not be silent...I am for Propostion 8 because now i understand what freedom is and will not be isolated or feel threatened for what others think with regards to how i live...i lived a life trying to intimidate others and now that that is the biggest cover up for my weakness, insecuriries and just like in the streets everybodys togh and bad when their with the homies but when your by yourself who are you really???? Its sad to not see the church accept the fact that they have treated those who decided to choose to be gay with judgement and rejection and treat them just like the adulterers, idolaters, liers, theives, prostitutes and gossipers deserve....everybody deserves to recieve love from the Love grace and mercy that Jesus offers all what an individaul does with that is between them and God...Grace...Peace and Loved....Blessed are the Peacemakers!!!!!

[Tartessos]

There are some great comments here. I will support the boycott. I am not afraid to openly support the civil rights of others. I own a business, City Lights Limousines, in Sacramento, and I am not afraid to show support to my brothers and sisters struggling for equality. I am a secular humanist, and a strong opponent of religious hatemongering and fearmongering, like that used in Yes on 8 advertisements. Perhaps these religious bigots are afraid that homosexual married couples are going to show more respect for the "sanctity of marriage" by having lower divorce rates. After all, they are unlikely to participate in shotgun weddings due to knocking up their teenaged squeeze, or arranged marriages forced upon them. Keep strong, brothers and sisters. Change is coming.

[publius]

Apparently, certain religions embolden stupid people to pick on others they perceive as different. Great game plan there.

[Jay]

Homosexuality is sin. God will forgive sin, but only if the sinner repents and accepts Jesus Christ as their savior.

Nothing any of you say or do can change these facts. "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." It happen. You will do it. But repent before it is too late. An eternity in Hell is the worst possible thing that can happen, and it will unless you repent.

[adam]

"BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT - and may every business that supported this hate suffer as a result"

hit them where it hurts the most: their pocketbooks

[Timmy]

Shouting doesn't resolve issues and problems! It all comes to basic knowledge and education! The beauty of America is that we all have the rights and freedoms to make choices and to be heard! Im not very smart or here to put anyone down, i think its important for everyone living now and for those dead that unity and forgiveness of the past is what will bring this nation together! I would encourage everyone to read the history of great leaders who overcame barriers because of their race, sexuality, religious beliefs and perhaps listen don't hate or judge but investigate the journeys that these people paved for everyone! Maritn Luther King, Bayard Rustin, Adam Clayton Powell jr. Senator Strom Thurmond and Mahatma Gandhi! and many many more both good and bad! thanks!

[Gays were NEVER treated comparably to Jews in Nazi Germany.]

re: "Gay people were being sent to Concentration camps in Germany along with the Jews"
COMPLETELY FALSE.

Gays in Nazi Germany were sometimes arrested or put in prison camps, as homosexuality was illegal. They were never sent to death camps (vernichtungslager) or ghettos, and were never aggregated with Jews (who were subject to a unique concentration and deportation process not applied to other gro). Nor did the Nazi treatment of gays extend beyond Germany, whereas Jews were hunted down all over Europe (and in principle, all over the world). The gay survival rate was astronomically high compared to that of Jews, simply because there was no extermination campaign targeting gays.

It is Goebbels-style Big Lie propaganda to repetitively equate the situation of Jews and homosexuals under the Nazis.

[Jen]

If a manager voted yes on Prop 8 and supported it monetarily, but ten of his employees voted no and supported that side, who gets fired when the business loses profits? Not the manager. Please consider first having civil unions recognized in all states and adopton rights. Marriage is a word. Let's focus on issues like pensions, insurance and other ways that families are blessed.
I agree with the person who said that everyone should get a civil union license, and let the churches deal with the marriages. I don't agree with people defacing someone eles's sacred places with grafitti.
Mormons only make up 2% of California's population, yet the measure passed by 52%. Let's find ways to be peaceful and kind. Friendliness always gains more friends. I have friends of many religions, and we are all able to interact with kindness and respect. People are more likely to support others with whom there is mutual respect. I have see Mormons bashed for their beliefs as well as others.
The first step to any kind of permint change is kindness. Let your neighbors see you in action as trust worthy, reliable, friendly then they will be more inclined to listen to your point of view and help and respect you back.

[Mark in San Diego]

Interesting how our money matters to you but our life and rights don't. I think that is called hypacritical. If our lives and our rights aren't worth anything to you then you shouldn't mind if we don't give you are money

[keith]

this thread started with a pro prop 8 male....speaking his mind about the gays......
I don't see Maury Povich making a living off of the gays...he makes a living doing shows about who DA daddie? and 90% of the guests are african american.....NICE family values there. lol

[Geo]

JAKE IN SAN DIEGO SAID ...
"Homosexuality is unnatural, wrong, immoral, and always will be. Argue all you want, but that's how it is. The only reason it is growing is because good people are being blinded by the lies spread by homosexuals. Being intolerant of immoral acts is not hateful or bad."

SIR YOU ARE WRONG. GAY PEOPLE ARE BORN GAY. You learned some where along the way to HATE those that make you uncomfortable.

Why not spend time with your wife and kids and bless the joy they bring into your life. Create a great life for yourself... just like Gays are creating a great life for themselves. YOUR GOD MAY HATE... but THE TRUE GOD LOVES ALL!!! If being gay was so wrong and so immoral why didn't Jesus speak on the topic? Look it up. Jesus said NOTHING about homosexuality!!! You Sir are the one who has believed the lies!!!

[Jane]

Elton John told everyone how it should be. Listen up folks. Get over it. You lost no rights, your tired reasoning for needing to be married is rhetoric that means nothing. Equal, smequel. The only real division in this country is those with money and those without it.

Wake up.

[PW]

For those denouncing the Protestants who have resorted to violence: So are the rest of us. It is not like the majority of or even a large amount of protesters are resorting to violence or threatening violence, despite what people like Lamotte (commenter) seem to think.

Very few protesters have actually resorted to violence (there are always a few bad seeds within all groups). The protests and boycotts are almost entirely peaceful. So stop namedropping the very, very few instances of violence as if they mattered, they do not.

This movement is peaceful. I could probably dig up a few Yes on Prop 8:ers who resorted to threats and actual violence. Would that condemn all of the people who supported the measure as violent attackers? No.

Anyone who voted "Yes" is either misguided or a bigot. Or a misguided bigot.

[Jake San Diego]

NOT ABOUT EQUALITY!

Get it through your heads. Equality is making sure people are treated equally based on things out of their control, such as gender, skin color, or nationality. Giving equal treatment to those who don't deserve it is wrong. Rewarding those who CHOOSE to be immoral is wrong. Approving of such immoral acts in ANY way is wrong.

Homosexuality is unnatural, wrong, immoral, and always will be. Argue all you want, but that's how it is. The only reason it is growing is because good people are being blinded by the lies spread by homosexuals. Being intolerant of immoral acts is not hateful or bad. it is GOOD! It is standing up for decency. A nation that allows EVERYTHING will lose EVERYTHING.

[Heather T]

I would like to know how many days are protesters allowed to protest in front of the businesses that voted for prop 8. Seems like after a few days it goes from protesting to harrasment. if we were to protest the no on 8 people then we are biggots or they say we hate. I thought a BOYCOTT means dont go to the place? So why pickett? AND ARE TAXPAYERS FOOTING THE BILL FOR ALL THE EXTRA POLICE NEEDED AT THESE PROTESTS? What is sad is that the police have more important things to do. And the attacks that the no on prop 8 people are doing are making them loose more and more supporters. They are on witch hunts.... WHat about yes on prop 8 people we have rights to

[Rob]

Enough is enough! During the height of the AIDS pandemic, we were told to be grateful for any minuscule support from our government and leaders while our friends and lovers died by the hundreds of thousands. I believe the only way progress was made was through the persistent and heroic efforts of our grass roots leaders and groups. Now, today we are again faced with another destructive and deadly force -- hate. So, it's not coincidental that we honor our loved ones on World AIDS Day and continue to fight for what's right and fair. Let's send a LOUD AND CLEAR message to fellow citizens of California, the country and the world that enough is enough. It appears that kindness, patience and intelligence does not prevail so we need to make an impact where we will get their attention and respect -- with our money, or I should say, without our money. Whether you are gay, lesbian, bi-sexual, transgendered, or straight, sympathetic, intelligent and truly believe in the fair treatment for ALL Americans, I am asking you to stay home on December 1, 2008 and do NOT spend a penny of your money! We need to demonstrate how integral we as a people are to this state and it's financial viability. By staying home, not working and not spending any money, not even a penny, it will have an impact on this state that will certainly gain a lot of attention. And if the state needs to re-coup some revenue, I'd suggest that the Church of Latter Day Saints have their tax-exempt status revoked and begin paying taxes since it appears that they are actually a political action committee, not a non-profit religious organization. So, on December 1, 2008, PLEASE:
REMEMBER OUR LOVED ONES
STAY HOME
DON'T SPEND A PENNY
Enough is enough!!!
Please join me in the state-wide boycott on December 1, 2008! Please forward this onto anyone and everyone you know will help us make our voices heard. We need to unite and stand up against HATE!

[belchy]

To all those who argue that boycotts are wrong, three words:

MONTGOMERY. BUS. BOYCOTT.

People can decide to not do business with any organization for any damn reason they like.

[Jexer]

I was assaulted yesterday in broad daylight by some bigot who thought it was okay to grab me and shove me aside so that he could tear down a protest-prop8 rally flier.

He'd been tearing them down the whole block. I did nothing but stand in front of one.

Sure, there are wingnuts on both sides of this battle. Prop8 supporters can boycott all they want.. Big deal. They've boycotted OUR businesses for centuries.

They act as if we attacked them. Fine, they can hold that misguided perception if they want... but they escalated by revoking our freedoms and liberties. They're morons if they expect no retaliation for that.

[Get your religion out of our government]

Can't we simply be reasonable here, really! Let's say there is a minimum age for conset, and let's say they have to be human beings. As long as the parties fit into those two categories, let's let any minimum aged human being marry any other minimum aged human being and, for that matter, why not let them marry as many as they want? Who cares (other than the religous zealots and other "traditional-thinkers"). No harm - no foul. GET YOUR RELIGION OUT OF OUR GOVERNMENT, PLEASE!

[Sui Generis]

We will get our rights, and it will happen within this decade. I've read such a huge number of ludicrous statements from pro Prop. 8 supporters that there is beyond any reason of a doubt, that our cause for equality will prevail within a decade if even that.

I'm a homosexual, and I've been attracted to the same sex since as long as I can remember 4 or 5 y/o. So for those of you who convinced yourself that it is a choice and for whatever reasons choose to alienate us, ridicule us, hurt us and treat us less than human, my heart goes out to you for your ignorance and self-righteousness.

For those of you who so fervently quote the scriptures to justify causing hurt, strife, unhappiness, alienating us to the point where some of you could view us as less than human and other atrocities that you have inflicted upon your fellow brothers and sisters, I pray to God to touch your hearts so that you may see clearly.

You are not my enemy. You are but victims of an insidious device that has brainwashed and controlled people for centuries. And though you may not see my point now, your eyes and hearts will be opened one day.

For Lamotte, Chris, fredc and others who share their sentiments against homosexuals, you have my forgiveness and love.

When there's so much problems in the world, I cast my vote for Love, Compassion, Happiness, Freedom & Peace for all sentient beings.

[Ricky]

The only reason the Martin Lurther King holiday is recognized in Arizona today is due to the boycotts the state suffered from coventions that refused to book there due to the ridiculous and patently obvious racism of the state when it was the only state to initially refuse to recognize the holiday.

When enough business was lost - the state quickly reconsidered its position and formally recognized the holiday. Such is the power of the dollar in America.

Boycott any business - any state - any person - that contributed to the No on 8 campaign - period. Let the Mormons pick up the slack. While I certainly love the argument - just because we want to take away your fundamental rights as a US citizen and as a person - does not mean we do not still want your money - it does some how make one feel unappreciated.

BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT - and may every business that supported this hate suffer as a result - and hold the Mormon church accountable for their political activity! You want to play politics - then let's play.

[madhattress]

GLBT white folks you need to HOLD UP.

I'm a lesbian, I'm hurt by this too. But this racism has GOT to stop. I'm horrified by the "back to Africa" comment and the threats of "ready to go" style violence.

I am ready to go. I will be at protests. I will be taking my money to businesses that are GLBT-friendly. But I will not stand for my own people acting like bigots.

Our argument for security for our relationships and recognition for our loves are on the right side of history. We will win people over. But you are damaging us with this kind of bigotry.

And the right wing is fanning its flames (and quite possibly imitating gay people online to make it seem worse than it is).

And to all of those who say "the voters have spoken, it's done" - no movement for equality has ever thrown up its hands and gone home after a defeat. You dust yourself off, get up, and keep moving. That's how change happens.

[One Realization]

BOYCOTT: ALMOND ROCA, BREMNER WAFERS, MOTHER'S CARNUBA WAX, BARDAHL OIL TREATMENT & MORE!!

A boycott of these items is in order, as well as a letter writing campaign to the companies that obtain their product containers from:

CONTAINER SUPPLY COMPANY INC., Garden Grove, CA
$526,500.00 total donation to YES ON PROPOSITION

Container Supply Co. manufactures containers for:
ALMOND ROCA, BREMNER WAFERS, MOTHER'S CARNUBA WAX, BARDAHL OIL TREATMENT & MORE.

These products need to be boycotted until they change container suppliers. DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO "CONTAIN" YOUR RIGHTS, OR THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS!

$526,500.00 total donation to YES ON PROPOSITION 8
-Container Supply Co., Inc. Garden Grove, Ca. $276,520.00
-Robert Hurtt, ( owner of Container Supply Co., Inc.) Garden Grove, Ca.$250,000.00

It goes without saying that only
PEACEFUL boycotts, letters and demonstrations
are appropriate.

WE ARE ALL ONE...
Some of us are just evolving slower.

http://onerealization.blogspot.com/
LOVE NOT 8!

[Mary]

"Too bad the separate part wasn't the problem...the equal part was."

This is incorrect.

It was actually a point of contention and infighting amongst various civil rights groups whether to attach the equal part or the separate part, and the separate part won out. Go back and read Brown - it was determined that separate is inherently unequal.

"Marriage of any type is NOT a right, never has been, and the government does not owe anyone a marriage. For four short months, some ultra left-wing judges exposed a loophole that made 48% think differently. "

This is also incorrect. The US Supreme Court has more than once stated that marriage is a FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT. See Zablocki v. Redhail and Loving v. Virginia, among others. Incarcerated felons have the right to marry but gays do not. There is something profoundly wrong with that.

[JayJonson]

Boycotts have a long history as a political tactic in the US. The Focus on the Family and other anti-gay groups are always boycotting some company for supporting gay rights. The Southern Baptist Convention even boycotted Disney because the company offered domestic partner benefits to its employees. I think businesses that supported Propostion 8 should be boycotted. I think Utah Tourism should be boycotted, including the Sundance Film Festival.

[Jeremy]

I think it's funny that the bigot in this article called Gay men and women hypocrites for boycotting businesses and churches who gave money to prop 8. Boycotting someone for supporting a piece of hateful and discriminatory legislation does NOT violate ANYONES civil rights. I'm perfectly tolerant of the people who supported prop 8. I don't wish them any personal harm. However, if you vote to strip me of my rights, I will vote with my dollar and take it elsewhere!

Also I'm not sure where people in support of prop 8 are getting their info on supposed assualts against old women and things of that nature, but I would like to point out, that compared to other civil rights battles of generations before us, these have been majorly peaceful. I have no desire to vandalize a church. No one I know wants to vandalize anything. We'd like people to stop being ignorant, but that's about it. There are a few bad apples in every crowd. Like the Pro Prop 8 Prison Guard who taunted a lesbian couple with KIDS with his gun in Riverside.

No more Mr. Nice Gay... If you don't like equality, get out of America. We will have our rights!

[Miguel]

Dear "Norco,"

Wow, that' s terrible to hear about all the churches that have been vandalized by rampaging homosexuals and their rampaging supporters in Norco! It's weird, I have two aunts there and the rest of my family in Riverside, but none of them has mentioned these shocking events to me! Weirder still, I can't seem to find any reports about this. Of course, Google turns up nothing (pro-homo bias!), but then again, neither does the Press-Enterprise (still more pro-homo bias!). You'd think, in such a small town, this would be a pretty big deal.

Please do provide me with a link to some website, or cite some sources that could inform me more about this outrage, that I'm totally sure has actually happened in real life.

(It's a bit tiresome to be continually lectured about morality by people who have no qualms about lying continually.)

[fredc]

A sexual minority is "a group whose sexual identity, orientation or practices differ from the majority of the surrounding society." from Wikipedia. It includes lesbian/gay/bisexual/transgender, and also "swingers, polyamorists or people in other nonmonogamous relationships, or people who strongly prefer sex partners of a disparate age." When you argue that gay marriage deserve constitutional protection because of minority status then other sexual minorities also deserve the same protection. You are saying group marriages, incest marriages, man/boy marriages should also have legal standing, they can have children, and teach their views to other children.

[Ex South African]

This is just like Zimbabwe - When Mugabe didn't win, he sent out his thugs to 'educate' voters - This is disgusting ! Who are the hypocrites now? You are no better than a third world tin-pot dictatorship - I came to this country for it's democracy - There is none here - it's no better than Zimbabwe

[LibertarianMGM]

To the Yes on 8 bigots that wish to inflict their venom and violence upon me while I am driving around in my car, you may want to take heed when you see the "other bumper sticker" next to my No on Prop 8 sticker....

It says "I'm the NRA."

"Don't Tread on Me"

[XMAN AZ]

From Arizona;
To all my Fellow Gay and Lesbian family; the line in the sand has been drawn the fight now has come out of the closet as in the days of Stone Wall riots and the riots after Harvey Milks death who was shot by a homophobe; I nor my other half will not not give up our fight in Arizona as well. The lines in the sand have been drawn and religion will and all people who voted in favor of this will be held accountable.

To the so called Right wing bible thumpers you now cry fowl because in fact theres a black list with your names on it. To bad so sad; thats california law, you donated to Hate than stand up and say proudly that you hate GAYS why hide? Let your true colors show.
its now time to tax ALL CHURCHES and the next time some one who needs our support, who voted in favor of 8 will not get it.
It is now the new discrimination of the 21st centry and the Holly rollers who brought this fight on will realize WE WILL NOT GO QUIETLY INTO the night.

To para phrase Winston Churchill "Never in Human Kind has so much been regulated against so few"

[johan]

I'm playing the tiniest violin for all the businesses that are being hurt by the Prop H8 boycott. They violated the first rule of business: Do not offend your customers.

They ticked off their customers and now those customers are taking their business elsewhere.

It never occurred to these business owners that gay people -- and friends and family of gay people -- use their services? They didn't know that gay people drive cars? That gay people eat food? That gay people -- how shocking! -- watch musical theater?

The reaction from the targets of the boycott is hilarious. These same self-righteous idiots have boycotted gay friendly businesses and any TV network that aired a gay inclusive programs. But now that these same tactics are being used on them they squeal like a stuck pig.

Remember your shrinking profit margin the next time your church tells you to support a hate campaign.

[Jonathan]

I'm surprized the "no on eight crowd" are getting only a minimal number of protestors. Nothing like the protests we had in the 60's. There have been a couple of good sized groups but the rest are small. Lot's of noise but little action. I would think if they really thought it was discrimination that they could get bigger crowds out. I think they really know it's about family values. How many people voted "No on Eight", I believe it was near five million. If you can't step it up, go home.

[bserver10]

You know it's not like Christians can wake one morning and choose not to be Christian. They are born that way!

[Kris]

LaMott

No one was threatening anyone's churches until the churches decided that political activism was on their agenda. You bought a pack of lies. That's your problem.

The senior citizen was never attacked, as a matter of fact, didn't she club some one with that giant cross she was lugging around? What was that, some kind of symbolism comparing her to Jesus? Really now.

[ZG]

I think many people writing on this blog need to note that probably the main issue here is whether or not having a relationship validated with the title marriage is a right or not.

The question is whether marriage belongs to and has always belonged to the government as a right which the government then affords to its citizens, or if marriage has other origins. This involves a study of history and then a judgment call on the part of the voter.

So we have to answer the question for ourselves of whether or not marriage belongs to the government. I think many people realize this on some level but need to face the truth that this is the discussion people should be having.

Instead of saying "marriage is only for this group or that group" a person should be saying "from my point of view marriage does not solely belong to the government, therefore it is not a right but an acknowledgment of a form of a relationship." Or instead of saying "churches robbed me of my rights" a person should say "from my point of view marriage belongs to the government and that's the way it ought to be, therefore it is a right which has been taken from me."

We need to acknowledge the true issue because for the most part this isn't simply an issue of immorality vs morality. It is also overly simplistic to say "people were deprived of their basic human rights." That argument has not been settled yet.

[jeannette patterson]

I as a straight, married, soccer mom think Prop 8 is clearly hateful. "Christians" who donated and voted for this descriminatory amendment, need to take a step back, look at themselves and ask "do I have disdain for gay people". It is unAmerican and unConstitutional to single out a subgroup of Americans, and pass laws denying them civil rights availed to all the other Americans. Marriage is not a religious institution, it is civil, it is love,.... there are non-religious marriages ceremonies, buddist, jewish, catholic, mormon, etc. There is nothing distinctly religious about marriage that justifies descriminating against gay marriages. And, I in no way see how this threatens my 17 year marriage, or the institution of marriage. Prop 8 is absurd, hateful and wrong.

[Karmon]

I strongly support homosexual marriages and poligamy. Why shouldn't we allow same sex marriage, get rid of speed limits, legalize drugs(hey it's my body), legalize poligamy, remove the drinking age, allow sex with animal(if it's condoned), allow pornagraph for everyone, remove the ban on buying cigarettes and guns?

[JA]

All of you screaming about GOD... let US take it to Him as you've suggested. In the mean time butt the he** out. You are not Him. As a matter of fact He said "judge not lest ye be judge" or did you forget about that one?

[Jenny]

Merdaud, were it not for homosexual fascists, like Ernst Rohm, who supported Hitler, there would have been no death camps, no nazi's. Homosexuals like him, brought what ultimately happened to European gays, on themselves, just as gays like you are repeating those mistakes with your racism and fascism. This liberal democrat will NEVER support any gay rights, in fact I willl oppose them, until you all purge your racist and fascist counterparts from your movement. You all disgust me. Since I was in my twenties, I supported gay rights, and gay organizations. I fought for rights of gays to adopt and be foster parents.. little did I know that those same gays might have been racist/fascistic. I don't consider myself as having lost anything, rather, the glbt community has lost my respect and support, at least until they purge themselves of the hatred that have reduced them to Hitlers in my eyes.

I'm not afraid of any backlash, in fact, since becoming aware of your racism and fascism, I felt motivated to join boycotts of any and all corporations and businesses that have anything to do with gays and their organizations. With many, many others like me, I'm boycotting the Ellen Degeneres show, and her corporate sponsers have been notified, I switched my insurance policies from Allstate to another company, because they are corporate sponsers of the Gay and Lesbian Center of Los Angeles, Island/Mercury Records, American Airlines, Apple Computer (I've informed them that rather than by a Macbook, and a new IPod for my two eldest kids, I'll buy a pc laptop, and something not an IPod. I'm not going to use ITunes any longer, and my kids and I were incredible customers of theirs, plus many many other corporate and business interests.

[JA]

Chris says: Last I checked blacks cannot wake up one morning and say to themselves, "hmm I am tired of being black, I think I will be Asian today". but thinks gay people can. THERE is the reason close minded bigots think it's okay to hate. Being gay isn't a choice Chris. Do you think we want to be treated like this? Think about it for a bit then get back to us.

[Echo1]

>>Beyond that being black is not immoral.

The U.S. Supreme Court disagrees with your statement that homosexuality is immoral. Go back and read Lawrence v. Texas. It was decided 6-3 and will not be overturned now that Obama will be appointing justices.

And ironically enough, that case involved a black gay male. You seek to discriminate against someone just like you--how very Christian that is.

[Julie]

Lamotte says "We ARE prepared to deal with you should you decide to come in our community...This is fair warning."

Are you serious? YOUR community? I have news for you Lamont....we are already in your community. Unfortunately, some are too afraid to come forward. YOU are the reason they are afraid. Shame on you! After all that has been done to see that YOU had civil rights.

[CraigM]

The USA is SO hung up on religeon its almost laughable! It seems everything is done with the bloody Bible in mind even if its used to justify discrimination against your own citizens.

Until you can get away from all this religeous garbage, certain people will always be trying to take away basic human rights from someone else.
In this case gay people.

Keep up the struggle .........you will ultimately win over these crazies!
Best wishes from Australia.

[Sui Generis]

As I've mentioned before, I am confident that homosexuals will have the right to marry as well as every other right that is bestowed upon a married heterosexual couple by law. It's just a matter of time. And being a homosexual myself, I am absolutely confident that He will not deny me passage into His Kingdom just because of my sexuality. When all I'm trying to do is to better myself so that I may spread Love, Peace, Compassion & Happiness to others.

LOVE, PEACE, COMPASSION, HAPPINESS & FREEDOM - That is the covenant that I subscribe to.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the founders of Prop. 8 and it's supporters are fueled by hubris, fear, ignorance and for some, even hate.

As humans, it's no surprise that we're not perfect. So, in our incomplete understanding of the great scheme of things, dare we speak on His behalf? Dare we play judge, jury and executioner on His behalf? In the end, for those who back Prop. 8, if they actually take the time to educate themselves and interact with homosexuals, they will see that the only difference that separates us is who we choose to spend the rest of our lives with for better or for worse, for sickness and in health, till death do us part.

[PJ Finnerty]

Churches obviously need to lose their tax-exempt status. One thing churches hate even more than gays is paying taxes. Everyone in America pays taxes, it's high time churches paid their fair share.

[John]

All this discussion boils down to one thing. As Americans we have the right to vote and make choices. The vote has been made and the American people and people of California have spoken. Now we see those on the losing side of the vote using threats, demonstrations, misrepresentations, lies, and other methods of intimidation to try and bully others. The non-8 group seems to have become the Nazi's of the current day. They show religious discrimination, racial discrimination, threats of violence, and the restriction of others free speech. It is time for the non-8 group to be seen for what they are.

[Steve]

All I can say on this matter is this is a sad day in our country's history. If this proposition was placed on a ballot back in the 60's, 50's or earlier, the general consensus would be "are you out of your mind?". God instituted marriage, not man. Go to Him about it, not us.

[Demitrius]

Here is the Battlefield- as a Parent and a Soldier who entrusts my country to help take care of my children while I'm away I'm in shock! Why our my children being tought about homosexuals in kindergarden while I'm deployed?
How can you talk of Homosexuallity like the Civil Rights Movement?? You were not born a homosexual you chose to be a homosexual. What the heck is going on back home???

[corntrader19]

Homosexuals and Lesbians: I am sick and tired of your whining about tolerance and comparing your struggle to equal rights movement. How dare you compare your perverted lifestyle to that of a racial minority?! Minorities everywhere should be outraged that you have stolen their campaign. The "born gay" myth you are trying to spread is a lie. God said you chose to be that way (Romans 1:26). We are not hateful because we don't want you flashing your sick lifestyle in front of us. The only hate that is being spread is the hate that you are spreading.

[Geo]

"Ron Prentice, chairman of ProtectMarriage.com, wrote in a statement. "Tragically, some opponents of Prop. 8 who claim to cherish tolerance and civil rights are unabashedly trampling on the rights of others."

No one trampled on these people's rights!!! No one stopped them from making a stand on what they believe. No one censored their speech or took any rights away from them. People are reacting in an appropriate way to having their civil rights removed from the constitution!!! This guy really doesn't get it and doesn't want to take responsibility for his groups actions. What does he expect? Gays and their supporters are suppose to just keep supporting businesses and individuals that feel they do not deserve equal treatment under the Constitution. He took Constitutional rights away from people!!!!
Bigots are generally stupid ... this guy obviously thinks we are all just as as dumb as the folks who think they can take the gay dollar AND support gay inequality.

[the q]

This seems to me to be a Martin Luther King vs. Huey Newton strategy on winning the hearts and minds of the public.

King was moderate and peaceful and made massive progress in getting blacks "equality". Of course it took time and an amazing amount of patience in light of the bigotry and racism rampant in America.

The boisterous tactics of the Black Panthers perhaps impeded this progress as white America was revolted by the violence and venom of this movement.

The more vociferous and hateful the gay political tactics, the more alienation and consternation occur in the straight community.

I will give you the "straight" dope...most folks that I know voted yes on 8, but paradoxically would support the idea of legal, civil "unions", wherein those couples would have all the "legal" rights as heterosexual couples.

Gays and straights are much too hung up on the word "marriage" and however much you want to moan and kick and scream at the injustice, from a strategic political viewpoint, in the short term, gays should give up on the word "marriage" and work hard to get a comprehensive national law recognizing civil unions.

As a political strategist, I believe that YOU ARE pissing off alot of straight folk which obviously you need to persuade to vote in your favor.

Dressing up in drag on the steps of S.F city Hall and having that lunatic Gavin Newsome screeching about "whether you like it or not" did not help you cause.

Its obvious that the "gay" agenda is having traction, the voting percentage against gay marriage has greatly narrowed in the last 8 years.

By following a smarter, less confrontational political agenda and emphasizing civil union recognition in all 50 states FIRST, the road to having social approval of gay "marriage" will be much shorter than you think.

In short, the gay leadership and their tactics are too much like Cleaver, Newton and X and not enough like MLK.

You guys lost an election and gay marriage was abolished, whether in the words of Gavin Newsome "you like it or not".

The real issue is how to prevail.

Screaming intolerance, boycotts, and indignation do nothing politically to enhance the chances of overturning 8, but rather enhance the idiot opposition who uses this outrage to further rally the brainless voters.

Change your tactics and you will change the vote.

Read carefully some of the thoughtful comments here which take you to task on your strategies instead of disregarding them with your anger and bile.

After all the proof is in the electorate's pudding...and you lost. Unfortunately.

Please feel free to politely disagree with me.

[dep]

This is in regards to: You gotta love the African American religious folks who use the Bible to support their opposition to gays and gay marriage.

Clue to the clueless: The Bible condones slavery. Repeatedly.

Posted by: Margit | November 13, 2008 at 01:48 PM

Dear Margit

First, we must recognize that the Bible does not say God supports slavery. In fact, the slavery described in the Old Testament was quite different from the kind of slavery we think of today - in which people are captured and sold as slaves. According to Old Testament law, anyone caught selling another person into slavery was to be executed:

"He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:16)

So, obviously, slavery during Old Testament times was not what we commonly recognize as slavery, such as that practiced in the 17th century Americas, when Africans were captured and forcibly brought to work on plantations. Unlike our modern government welfare programs, there was no safety-net for ancient Middle Easterners who could not provide a living for themselves. In ancient Israel, people who could not provide for themselves or their families sold them into slavery so they would not die of starvation or exposure. In this way, a person would receive food and housing in exchange for labor.

So, although there are rules about slavery in the Bible, those rules exist to protect the slave. Injuring or killing slaves was punishable - up to death of the offending party.1 Hebrews were commanded not to make their slave work on the Sabbath,2 slander a slave,3 have sex with another man's slave,4 or return an escaped slave.5 A Hebrew was not to enslave his fellow countryman, even if he owed him money, but was to have him work as a hired worker, and he was to be released in the year of jubilee (which occurred every seven years).6 In fact, the slave owner was encouraged to "pamper his slave

[angela]

To the No on 8 community:

A few hundred years ago, a group of what was then largely perceived as "hooligans" threw a bunch of tea into Boston Harbor. Technically, what they did can be best described as vandalism.

And today, we look back upon these "hooligans" as patriots who had the courage to make a huge noise against a corrupt establishment.

A few years later many of these "hooligans" were at the start of an all-out war against the same oppressors. And, we look back upon this war with great pride and admiration.

Look, don't hurt anybody and start a war. But there is a harbor that needs a bunch of tea tossed in. PROTEST PEACEFULLY but LOUDLY in the way that would make MLK proud.

History will remember you as being on the righteous side.

[Paulo]

I'm from Brazil land am not gay. I agree with boycott of the gays in CA. They are correct fighting for the their rights. The better way is affecting the pockets of the tyrant religious and supporters of them.

The gays need to list all the business that supported the Yes Prop 8 and do a campaign via internet, radio e tv asking the people to boycott them. And also to register all the business competitors of this that supported it and do campaign in favor of them.

Other point to affect many Hispanic families there is to demand that illegal immigrants be deported to their countries or then that the reform of the migratory law be voted by American citizens too. Thus many Hispanics would be affected too why they have friends and families that are illegals there.

And also would be good the gays to realize a movement to tax churches there. They have so many money to manipulate people and spend with small things, but they have not money to help poor people. Why do they not spend their money to save lives in Africa and other parts of the planet?

Now I leave some important messages of Mahatma Gandhi to the Christians:

1) "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. The materialism of affluent Christian countries appears to contradict the claims of Jesus Christ that says it's not possible to worship both and God at the same time."

2) "I don't know nobody that has made more for the humanity than Jesus. In fact, there is not nothing wrong in the Christianity. The problem are you, Christian. You don't know to live its proper teaching."

[cee-jay]

I agree with Lamotte. And Ten_DC, I've read those laws as well and totally agree.

This isn't a Civil Rights issue, it is a moral issue, AND the morally correct have won.

[Giselle]

Chris- In your post you say gay people can "choose" to be gay. I am curious can you tell me how as a heterosexual woman I choose to become a lesbian?
I'd love to find out, or at least choose to be bi.
There are so many more good looking women in LA, I'd love to have my "choice" of them. Unfortunately at this point I haven't figured out how to change my sexual orientation.
Can you tell me how?

[Christians for Life]

To Tem_DC,

You are right on! What you said is totally true, and so well spoken!

[Teena]

Dino you can't send African Americans back to a place they never been. You're about 200 years too late. If you don't know your history maybe you shouldn't speak on it.

[Christians for Life]

God gave marriage to man and woman as a religious, holy, spiritual, and sacred covenant, to create children. So yes, Prop 8 IS all about religion and GOD!!!! "Same-sex" couples cannot make children, and therefore have not been granted the marriage covenant by God. This is a deliberate attack on the church, and on God Himself! You homosexuals, and supporters of them, are wrong to impose your sinful, detestable, abomination of a lifestyle as "marriage", and if you fear and respect the Lord our God at all, you will cease your support of overturning Prop 8.

The Bible says:

"Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." Romans 1:22-27 (NIV)

"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." Leviticus 18:22 (NIV)

"for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine" 1 Timothy 1:10 (NKJV)

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV)

[yinbin]

You do not have to be tolerant of people who are INTOLERANT of you. Period. I really hope the supreme court will once again void this unfair proposition. Basic rights of an (innocuous) minority group should never be subjected to the whims and tyranny of a largely uninformed majority.

[Next issue]

Prop. 8 won. Next item of business.

[Jeff Griffin]

Every day that our Supreme Court doesn't step in and remedy this injustice to gay people, their anger and resentment will become more widespread and violent. What I don't understand is why it's taking the Court so long to make such an obvious decision. You don't affirm a basic human right for 3+ milliion Californians, and then, not even six months later, allow a slight plurality of eligible voters to eliminate this right, or even worse, pretend it never existed. That's simply outrageous, and as far as I'm aware it's unprecedented in our state's history.

[Jim Angone]

I LOVE TO HEAR THE SUPPORTERS OF PROP 8 DECRIE ALL OF US WHO ARE PROTESTING THE PASSAGE OF 8 AS "unabashedly trampling on the rights of others".

WHY WOULDNT WE FIGHT FOR A BASIC RIGHT, GUARANTEED BY THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE, BUT DENIED BECAUSE OF THE REPEATED ATTEMPTS BY SUPPORTERS OF PROP 8 TO PREY ON THE PREJUDICES AND UNFOUNDED FEARS THEY HAVE OF TWO PEOPLE, OF THE SAME SEX, HAVING THEIR MARRIAGE RECOGNIZED BY THE STATE, NOT RELIGION, SO THEIR RIGHTS AS A MARRIED COUPLE ARE GUARANTEED.

TAKE AWAY THEIR RIGHT TO MARRY AND SEE HOW THEY WOULD JUSTIFIABLY PROTEST.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT INDIVIDUALS RIGHTS ALREADY GRANTED TO TOHER CITIZENS. YOU NAME ONE RIGHT ONE CITIZEN HAS , DENIED ANOTHER. THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT ALLOW THIS.

AS FOR LEAVING THE RIGHTS OF SAME SEX COUPLES TO MARRY TO THE VOTER, THATS A SLIPPERY SLOPE. WHEN DO WE HAVE THE NEXT PROP. TO VOTE ON THE RIGHTS OF AFRICAN AMERICANS, SPANISH SPEAKING PEOPLE, ASIANS, ETC.?

WE WILL NEVER LET UP ON THIS ISSUE, UNTIL JUSTICE IS DONE. IF YOU THINK YOU SEE THE FERVENT ATTITUDE OF THE PROP 8 SUPPORTERS, WAIT UNTIL YOU SEE THE UNRELENTING DEMAND BY SAME SEX COUPLES TO OBTAINING THEIR RIGHT TO HAVE THEIR COMMITMENT OF LOVE RECOGNIZED BY THE STATE.

[Rob]

It really is amazing to see the events unfolding from Canada and see the choas that is spiraling out of control down in CA. While no to 8 supporters push for what they feel is their right and may win. The end result may be more than you wanted. The very nature and integrity of elections will be marginallized and lessened since they can be overturned by a mass of people in protests and in the courts. The tolerance that is so desperately being sought will turn to disregard and intolerance due to the angry and vengence oriented attitude of the mob. I feel for the gay couples who want to to thier own family thing and through the process work through it. People have not a lot of sympathy for the angry shouting mobs who condemn others in their attempt to force them to capitulate to their viewpoint. You may win the battle but will lose in the court of public opinion and may even set your movement back for years as people dig their heels in against it. I think a back away from the ledge approach will yield more results.

[Eric]

Hi -- as a married male who voted against Prop 8, I'd just like to remind people to take this opportunity to really think about and confront the stupidity and cruelty of religion. Religion has no place in progressive, modern, free society.

[mrclmind]

"Gays have no idea what it really means to be treated as a second class citizen." Spoken like a true hetero. You have no idea what you are talking about. Do you know how many children are kicked out of their homes because they are gay? Do you know the suicide rate of Gay teens in this country? Can you honestly say you have never known of gay bashing, and gay hate crimes? It's all over the place. The reason people are in the closet is sheer self preservation, not because they think it's a fun place to be. You have absolutely no idea what it is like to be gay, yet you think you can espouse such rhetoric. It's this kind of talk that keeps us where we are. People thinking that there is no problem just because they choose to look the other way. If it's not happening to you then it doesn't matter, right?

I'm over it. I've been all about taking the high road for the past 44 years, and I'm done with it now. I don't need to apologize for myself, nor do I need the approval of the straight community. Gays have more disposable income during a recession than any other demographic, and we have every right to spend it where we see fit. It is one of the few places where we do have power in this world.