Shots fired at Toys R Us in Palm Desert; 2 dead

Shots rang out today inside a Toys R Us store in Palm Desert, killing two and causing shoppers at the busy store to scramble for cover.

Palm Desert Councilman Bob Spiegel told The Times that based on early reports, two rival groups shopping at the store had some kind of argument and then shots were fired. Two men were killed in the exchange of gunfire, he said.

Sara Frahm, 25, of La Quinta was shopping for electronic toys at the time of the shooting. She told The Times she heard two women fighting and swearing in an aisle next to her. She said employees went to break up the fight and that all of the sudden a number of people yelled, "He has a gun!" She said she heard six or seven shots.

Mike Stitt of Yucca Valley was shopping with his wife and two children when he saw two women fighting and calling each other names. Both were with men. One of the men pulled out a gun and shot it in the air, then shot the other man in the back, Stitt told The Times.

In a statement, Toys R Us stressed that the shooting appeared to stem from a "personal dispute."

"We are outraged by the act of violence that occurred this afternoon in Palm Desert, CA, and by the fact that anyone would compromise the safety and security of our customers and employees," the statement said. "Our understanding is that this act seems to have been the result of a personal dispute between the individuals involved. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to associate the events of today with Black Friday."

Riverside County sheriff and fire officials responded to a report of the shooting at 11:32 a.m. at the toy store in the Desert Crossing Shopping Center at 72314 Highway 111, said Cheri Patterson, information officer for the Riverside County Fire Department and Cal Fire, based in Perris.

Dennis Gutierrez of the Riverside County Sheriff's Department confirmed the fatalities but said detectives were still trying to figure out what happened. He said no arrests have been made and no weapons have been recovered.

"This was an incident between these two individuals," he said.

Details about the shooting were still spotty, but witnesses said the scene at the store and nearby businesses was chaotic.

"We had a bunch of people who came in around noon," Jeff Valare, manager at the World Gym across the street from the Toys R Us, told The Times. "They looked distressed. One woman had an infant in her arms and was crying. They were telling us they heard five or six gunshots. They were inside the Toys R Us and fled out the back."

Glenn Splain, another worker at the gym, told the Associated Press that some Toys R Us customers "were crying, tearing and shaking. ... Some people got into a fight. ... One of the guys here thought it was over a toy, but it got louder and louder and then there were gunshots."

Saul Diaz, who works as an assistant manager at the Jiffy Lube next door to the Toys R Us, said he was speaking with a customer when a stampede of 45 people ran in. Some looked distraught, some were crying.

"They were running fast, straight into the car bays. There was a couple of ladies with little kids, about 3 years [old]. They were all pale. The kids were shouting, 'Mom, I'm scared.' We immediately closed the store," Diaz told The Times. His staff locked the front doors and closed the car bays. "We took everyone into a basement bay, where we keep inventory," he said.

The Desert Sun quoted a Palm Desert city official as saying the shooting might have been caused by bad blood between two groups of shoppers. "There were two groups inside that had issue with each other," said Assistant City Manager Sheila Gilligan. "And the two men inside pulled their weapons and shot each other."

Daniel Watson told KPSP-TV that his wife was shopping at the store and called him on her cellphone about the time the shooting began. "She was scared, you know, and she told me to tell the kids that she loved them," Watson said. He told the station that his wife hid under a clothes rack.

-- Michelle Maltais, Richard Winton, Molly Hennessy-Fiske and Andrew Blankstein

VIDEO: Video of the shooting scene from KESQ-TV.

PHOTOS: Photo gallery of the shooting scene from The Desert Sun.

Comments

[russell]

Kinda breathes new life into the war on Christmas.

[Jeremiah Haynes]

Sad, very sad to see something like this happen. What's going on in the world right now? Many things seem so crazy.

[B Shears]

I like how the Toys R Us shoppers scrambled into another business: 1. Go to my car and drive home or as far away as possible to safety 2. Check out another business, let things cool down and continue bargain hunting.

[Drewbob]

Good reason more people should have concealed gun permits AND carry

[syscom3]

"bad blood between two groups of shoppers" ..... can we assume that is politically correct speech for saying two rival gangs were in the store and they decided to settle issues?

[Dumbo]

Was there a store sign that read "No shooting" ?

[tom]

no wonder the world despises us.

[nigel]

awesome!...this country is fast becoming a third world cesspool,,and nothing can stop it. ...shoot out at the Toys R Us,,,,I bet the two partys involved were 'Gangstas".....how proud their children must be.

[GEAH]

Russell, that is one of the funniest comments ever!

[Lucifer]

that sure cannot be good for business. also if enough of these retailers get sued, they are going to learn to get control of their black friday crowds.

[Jackington]

What has our country come too? First the trampling death at Wal-Mart and now this? Our society values cheap chinese-made junk over human lives.

[Richard Stanke]

If only Barrack Obama was there, he could bring the dead back to life and make sure everyone gets a free toy at the store's expense.

[jake]

One can only hope that the two killed were the two shooters. Let's here it for a "zero sum" gang scorecard.

[Alan]

At least they shot each other. Just think of it as evolution in action and be glad no one else was hurt.

[Fran]

And to think, if they had just waited, the toy would have probably been marked down 50%.

[Chad]

@ Richard Stanke - LOL!!!

Obama would lick the gun shot wounds, and in turn heal them and their broken hearts over the toy battle. Then unicorns would swoop in, and give all the shoppers free rides. And thats a big deal, because unicorns never let ANYONE have free rides.

[Luther]

Richard. Enough already! The election's over and these kind of comments ad nothing to the conversation. Get on with your life.

It is indeed sad that these kind of violent confrontations happen at Christmas or any other time. But I've been around long enough to have seen it all before - over and over again. And no, Nigel, they aren't always "gangstas". Sometimes it's just that nice guy down the street who's packing a gun out of fear.

[Billy Rob Johnson]

All the more reason that Toys R Us employees should be armed. That way, the employees could have killed the two troublemakers before they were allowed to shoot each other. Seriously, the guy playing Geoffrey the Giraffe could conceal a semi under that costume.

[Cedar Posts]

Charleston, SC more than 70 store owners super guled out of their stores. Details at Cedar Posts

[Karl in Burbank]

This story can't be correct...you arent allowed to carry a gun in California!

[Valerie]

Were they fighting over the last Wii?

[c earl jr]

Stanke...

How's that pronounced...? You must've really been teased a lot... We're sorry...

If the article was about mating marmot, I guess that would also garner the same response from you...

Wow...

[knowsbetter]

Christmas controversy has nothing to do with this article, or any events detailed within. In fact, "war" on Christmas has nothing to do with gun battles in toy stores at all. Thank God for freedom to bear arms and, freedom of speech!

[shana]

how depressing.. holidays are supposed to be a joyful time, yet store employees are trampled, customers shooting at each other, xmas driving is the worst ever, and the economy collapsed due to unchecked greed.

maybe in these tough times the citizens of this country will see the light and curb government spending, illegal benefits.. and focus on our own needy, our own countries problems.

[Kent Lacoste]

Drewbob wrote:
Good reason more people should have concealed gun permits AND carry

This story is the exact reason we DON'T need more people carrying concealed weapons. We'd probably hear about this kind of thing happening way more often. "I don't get my toy, so I'm going to shoot you,". How ridiculous. Grow up people.

[JD]

Of course you need a gun when you shop at Toys R Us.

[Hilary Smith]

A Walmart employee in New York was trampled to death today by a stampede of bargain shoppers. Consumer culture at its best.

[REPO4SALE]

Little people fight over little things with BIG guns.

Big people fight over BIG things with little pens!

Difference between "animals" and "rich citizens"....

[Foclipz]

Two people are dead FOREVER for spending their money like lemming cus the local news says everybody is shopping today. Prices are only going to go down before and after christmas. is it that important to get a piece of chineese made crap?. Those two guys are in the morgue at the hospital on their way to the county's morgue. Cold and starting to stiffin' up. Their pupils are wide and the blackness of the pupil staires into space. where is their souls at? Are they at the gates of the home of God? Or ar they in the fire pits of hell?---? What is going on? This is just too much---death is AMERICA

[Peter]

What was SARAH PALIN doing moosehunting in Toys-R-Us???

[Jacko Dituglio]

All this over material things being sold at a lower price. People need to get a life. How about if we all bought NOTHING for Christmas and taught everyone that the holiday is NOT about presents but about the BIRTH OF JESUS, and being with the ones you love. And if your kids ask why did they get anything, tell them straight up, YOU CAN'T ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU WANT, THAT'S THE WAY LIFE IS. They need to learn that at a young age, so they won't be angry and miserable when they grow up and don't get what they want. Even if you do get your kids something, but it's not exactly what they want, same thing applies. Tell them that Santa can only do so much. What matters is, not what you give or get, but the thought that goes with it. If I got nothing, I would not care, I never have, because I got what is most important to me, my health, and my family.

[NoBlackFriday]

What is the point of hurting people to get the latest games? I agree with Jackington, our country is a mess.

[rudibob]

is 'black friday' a racial term?

[Bryon]

Phew... thank God that people are allowed to carry guns in this country. I'd hate to think how unsafe I'd feel if people weren't allowed to arm themselves while going out in public.

[Danny]

Geez. At least in World War I they had a Christmas truce.

[don]

another reason why the desert area should be avoided. the old days of palm springs are long gone. just another gang area now.

[mars]

richard stanke,another crybaby repub...get over it

[Mark]

"bad blood between two groups of shoppers" --- whomever said this, should be fired from whatever they do, for being an absolute politically correct idiot. --- And yes, as someone above noted, this and the Walmart deadly stampede, have a definite Third-World quality.

[plankbob]

Posted by Richard Stanke: If only Barrack Obama was there, he could bring the dead back to life and make sure everyone gets a free toy at the store's expense.

And if George Bandar Bush were there he could declare Mission Accomplished and surge on over to KBR Us.

[Thomas M.]

It's shame there are people who choose to take the fault of others and displace them onto Plresident Obama. Mr. Richard Shanke is clearly an individual with issues regarding the outcome of the election. A poor individual who can not focus on the issue at hand, this explain in part why you and other will not work to better our nation. Millions more American believe along with President Elect Obama we can change our country for the good. Yes we can!

[david]

"gun and carry permits?" That would be a hilarious scene. A bunch of people pulling out their guns to make it a good old fashion shoot out. It'll be like Black Hawk down, a true American fantasy come true. Or wet dream. It'll be like playing PS3, CoD4; the shoot out to rescue the hostages in the building. Or like what they do on the CIS ... finding out who caused the shooting for the toy or drug deal? Great story line. I can see a cool script coming out of this.
All joking a side will they really allow the inventory to run out? Will that be in the best interest of the business?
People in other country fight over rice, flour, and water. We fight over plastic junk.

[strange1]

is this from the "onion"? I thought California had strict gun control laws! /sarcasm

[ghrog]

Good on both of 'em.

Took each other out of the gene pool.

[Sean K]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess the shooters might have been bald-headed hispanic males. Does that make me a racist? And what if I'm right? All I know is when I see a tattooed bald-headed hispanic male nowadays, I cross the street. I wouldn't hire one for a job and I wouldn't allow one in my house. And if that makes me racist, so be it.

[Darwin]

Come to me my children...come to me. I know that I will give a lot of awards in the next few months

[anth]

Ahh it's great to see American humor still exists. As an Aussie in LA I was getting worried you guys could never laugh at your fellow countrymen's own stupidity like we do.

[fpdbilly]

Darwin.

[ifonly]

If only George Bush had been there, he could have taken credit for "liberating" the Black Friday shoppers.

[Christianne]

In the ever expanding hedonsitic greed for a bargain, yet another Black Friday tragedy occurs. This incident only reinforces the world's view that we are a violent and ill country who is going into decline. What a world. Jesus weeps for the USA.

[SKETCH]

Considering the number of people that find it exciting to go shopping on black friday, it is surprising that there are not more stories like this. It is a surprise there are not more instances of this NOT on holidays as well.

[cmgrigg]

What exactly does conceal and carry do to help this situation? America common sense has left the building.

[Steve]

What PC from the LA times.."bad blood between two groups of shoppers" ..... can we assume that is politically correct speech for saying two rival gangs were in the store and they decided to settle issues?"

LAT will never report if it's Brown on Brown gangs or Black on Brown gangs, but you can bet it wasn't Mormon missionaries collecting for the defense of Prop 8 and a bunch of West Hollywood types shooting it out.

[T]

THIS IS NO SUPRISE PEOPLE LOOK AROUND YOU.
(2 Timothy 3:1-7) 3 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. 6 For from these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

(Matthew 24:36-40) 36 “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be.
WE ARE LIVING IN DAYS OF NOAH.... NO ONE IS TAKING NOTE AGAIN....
THERE ARE THOSE THAT ARE FULLY AWARE... AND BECAUSE WE ARE TAKING NOTE OF BIBLE PROPHECY WE ARE PREPARED.

[marian]

I read the back of an american greeting card..made in china! AMERICAN greetings.yeah..that should warm americans hearts..why does the government or anyone ask why our economy is so downhill and washed up??because American companies and paychecks.. are really in China...what a shame..and shame that our ..government ,whoever..lets the companies get away with it..someone else said we are like a third world country..we really will be if american companies take more americans jobs to china..maybe its already too late ,china will rule and we will be peons..about the toy store shooting...people are becoming more like cavemen...and I guess they let anybody live in palm desert nowdays.

[asanath]

Tom, no, actually you despise us perhaps, but the world? Not really. At least, not those rational beings that are not simply attaching their misanthropic views to selective groups of humans as you appear to be. By the by, these sorts of incidents happen world wide in case you haven't noticed....it's not an American thing, it's a human thing.

[George]

So they shot each other like a western? pulled out their guns at exactly the same time and died together?

[Margie Gignac]

This is truly a very bad sign of the times. So much hate, so much greed. Why can't we all get along? Is a Made in China toy worth shooting someone for?

[Gertrude D. Needlemeir]

Well, that sucks.

Electronics isle? were they fighting over who got the last Furby/Tickle Me Elmo/Tamagotchi/Nintendo Whatsitcalled?

People are animals when it comes to crap like that, which is why I didn't go out today.

A man was crushed under a door at another department store, an Employee.

I'm somewhat disappointed in Humanity when they act like rabid dogs trying to get the last scrap of meat that is a Black Friday Sale, or any other major Sale.

#1 Reason why I don't like shopping.

[Chip Young]

Was it necessary for the store to say it wasn't related to Black Friday?

[joel palmer]

Well since it apopears that both deceased were gang members, police will find NHI (no humans involved)

Where is the outrage? When will community leaders act? Or are several generations likely to thin the ranks by gunshots?

[John Davis]

Rival groups? Oh you mean Rival Gangs.
Why is it that the only people that can carry guns are Gang members?
It is time to allow honest citizens to carry weapons to allow us to defend ourselves against these evil thugs.

[joel palmer]

Thinning the herd!

[BrainDeadUnite]

Ho, ho, ho Meeeerrrry Christmas! Some of your comments are an absolute hoot and quite creative. Keep em' coming.... at least until God decides to bestow His blessings upon the soon-to-a-reality-near-you nuclear holocaust and bake this nut-house to a deserving crisp! Ho, ho, ho....

[BrainDeadUnite]

Hey Jeremiah Haynes, you that desperate for some answer? Will this do: all of you people live your puny existance in some kind of self-adoring bubble, you lie, steal, kill and even bop each other in the A** for sexual entertainment, you pervert holidays into mass rampages for Chinese made trinkets and with all of this behavior you basically piss on Gods sandals then you wrack your feeble little brains in wonder why life is so out of balance. Hmmmmnnn????
Like mentioned in my previous post here, keep the funny stuff rolling, being than this planet is running on short time all you got left is the few laughs you can extract out of your own stupidity. Shop on retards, at this rate "Black Friday" is well underway to meet 'Bloody Red Saturday'.

[Neighbor]

Two down...a few thousand more to go. Were getting there.

[UltimateToronto.com]

When you need to bring a gun into the local toy store, you really need to self-evaluate your life.

[Shopping Warrior]

Sure it's good if the violent criminals kill each other, but not in my backyard toy store! Instead of just theft detectors, there should be metal detectors and homeland security barriers and checkpoints so people who are psychopathic criminals do not bring their violence to our family stores! All criminals convicted of murder beyond a doubt, should be executed by firing squads of others waiting to be executed in prison! Then if they are illegal immigrants who happen to have committed murder, their carcass should be repatriated to their home country in the cheapest cargo space available to save tax-payer money.

Those hateful and sick criminals must be eradicated from society for the good of humanity!

[Slim]

If only Barrack Obama was there, he could bring the dead back to life and make sure everyone gets a free toy at the store's expense.

Posted by: Richard Stanke | November 28, 2008 at 01:31 PM

Stanke, Dick,

bitter much ?

[rfkolbe]

Anyone ready to talk about too many HANDGUNS yet?

[George Busch]

Where was Homeland Security? I thought this was one of their responsibilities?

[Elder Loki]

This is darwinism in action. Two idiots shoot each other in a Toys R Us and spare us their moronic progeny. Good riddance. At least no REAL people were hurt. On a side note, who the heck brings a gun to a Toys R Us anyway? Maybe he had a raging giraffe phobia. Nah, probrably just an idiot.

[mzfitz]

TOO MANY GUNS IN THIS WORLD. WE CAN'T STOP STUPID PEOPLE FROM BEING STUPID BUT WE CAN STOP THEM FROM USING GUNS IF GUNS ARE CONTROLLED. TOO MANY GUNS AND TOO MANY ANGRY LOW LIFES

[Jack]

Scorecard

Gangbangers = 0
Darwin = 2

[Tdog]

"Our understanding is that this act seems to have been the result of a personal dispute between the individuals involved. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to associate the events of today with Black Friday."

Like most shootings, the people involved knew each other.

Posted by: Drewbob | November 28, 2008 at 01:23 PM

"Good reason more people should have concealed gun permits AND carry"

We can only hope that everyone who would pull out a gun in anger will take each other out in this fashion, but unfortunately, it is the innocent who usually suffer. It's catch-22. The people who would be best suited to carry concealed weapon are the ones who do not want to.

[Tdog]

"Our understanding is that this act seems to have been the result of a personal dispute between the individuals involved. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to associate the events of today with Black Friday."

Like most shootings, the people involved knew each other.

Posted by: Drewbob | November 28, 2008 at 01:23 PM

"Good reason more people should have concealed gun permits AND carry"

We can only hope that everyone who would pull out a gun in anger will take each other out in this fashion, but unfortunately, it is the innocent who usually suffer. It's catch-22. The people who would be best suited to carry concealed weapon are the ones who do not want to.

[Jeff]

To say that this could possibly be an incident between rivals who had bad blood before the incident and that it would be inaccurate to associate the events with Black Friday is totally bogus and is only to save Toys-R-Us and the annual Black Friday event face. Fights happen every year over the deals that are presented on this day. It was only a matter of time before the annual fist fights that are inevitable turned into an all around shoot-out. I hope the women that started the fight (obviously over a great deal) and then let their men finish it for them are proud of themselves.

[Tdog]

"Our understanding is that this act seems to have been the result of a personal dispute between the individuals involved. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to associate the events of today with Black Friday."

Like most shootings, the people involved knew each other.

Posted by: Drewbob | November 28, 2008 at 01:23 PM

"Good reason more people should have concealed gun permits AND carry"

We can only hope that everyone who would shoot someone in anger will take each other out in this fashion. It is a catch-22. The people who are most qualified to carry a concealed weapon are the ones who do not want to.

[To all the people trying to make this about race...]

This was just two idiots that lost their lives and compromised other people's safety over something that was not worth it. If anybody even mentions "gangstas"
or Barrack Obama in their irrational diatribe that just underscores how racist and pissed off some of our fellow Americans can be. The people involved weren't even African Americans; regardless of that their race shouldn't even matter. Lives were lost. We should let the investigations conclude before we make our own judgments.

[Travel Bavaria]

Amazing - what's next in America?

[DeVioSsSs]

Ahhh...there IS a God! People like this didn't need to be here anyway!

[Randy]

How are those tough handgun restrictions working out for ya?

[AJ]

No weapons recovered? So were these the shooters or not?
We need to get control of our tempers.
People there is nothing in the store that is worth your life.
There is no insult that is worth another's life.

[AJ]

No weapons recovered? So were these the shooters or not?
We need to get control of our tempers.
People there is nothing in the store that is worth your life.
There is no insult that is worth another's life.

[aurelia]

Russell what do you mean ? I know i hate the mass marketing and the lost meaning of true x-mas ,but all that ! jesus I am scared.

[Diana]

Quote: "Good reason more people should have concealed gun permits AND carry
Posted by: Drewbob "

Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. If more people in the store had guns, more people would be dead. This is a good reason why we should join every other developed country and stop legally selling guns to practically anyone.

[David]

"If only Barrack Obama was there, he could bring the dead back to life and make sure everyone gets a free toy at the store's expense."

And McCain and Palin would have dropped a nuke on the entire city; so, what is the point?

['brit']

remember america its your right to defend yourselves... it says to in the constitution, right.... to 'bear arms'?

[Tate]

At least they just killed each other. Gang bangers should all shoot each other, but not in a Toy Store. Low life pieces of human waste. They both had guns and both illegals aliens. "California is the place to NOT be!"

[John]

Yay Americans and their guns! So glad everyone can carry them and just shoot anyone.

[aimee foster]

I was there for an hour and 1/2 earlier in the morning !!! :( I am shocked and saddened this happened at this wonderful store. It is a few blocks from my home. So sad. Such a beautiful area. I'm driving by there this morning to say a prayer for those who were there and scared by it all.

[anonifold]

"Jeremiah Haynes" erm...there witnesses they probably got evacuated to there.
You know they'll probably have to give statements and stuff.

[Vito]

And a new American tradition is born, the exchange of lead at Christmas.

[Bob T]

Unbelievable, what's wrong with these people? Why do these idiots think it's their right to react with this kind of stupity? They need to put the women involved in state prison as accomplices to these murders and for their reckless disregard for the safety of the children and other patrons of the store/shopping center. Anyone who acts without regard for innocent people in this manner needs to be permanently removed from our society. Can we bring about a new Devil's Island for these morons?

[Ken Camp]

Richard Skanky wrote: "If only Barrack Obama was there, he could bring the dead back to life and make sure everyone gets a free toy at the store's expense."

Yeah, and if it were Bush he would carpet bomb all of Palm Desert with millions of Americans cheering.

Ken Camp, Los Angeles

[Sinclair]

@drewbob So your solution to the murderous problem of allowing your citizens to own guns, is... more guns! Brilliant!

[Billy]

ALL OF THE SUDDEN? Jeez. Don't you guys write for a living?

[DUBB CEE]

LOL..WHO TAKES GUNZ TO TOYS R US? THEY BOTH DESERVE TO BE EXACTLY WHERE THEY ARE RITE NOW ...WAY TO GO SMILEY N JOKER!

[member personal info?]

@Jackington and Fran: According to the report, it wasn't a shopping dispute. Read the article.

[Tania]

What next? Metal detectors in toy stores?

[Sarah]

So lets see parents going shopping for there children and they thought shooting eachother was a better deal. Really though why didn't they think about there kids before they did that. The mothers what were they thinging? They should be at fault to they had to of known the men had guns in a TOY STORE!!! Need I say more....