Proposition 8 exit poll: Whites oppose, blacks support, Latinos divided

Californians went to the polls today on the divisive and deeply emotional issue of same-sex marriage, with early exit poll data showing the state's voters closely divided along lines of religion and political affiliation.

With the polls still open, it is too early to project the outcome, which would amend the California Constitution to ban gay marriage. But preliminary data showed that Democrats and independents were tending to vote against Proposition 8, while Republicans were in favor of the measure.

The proposition was trailing among white voters, but was ahead among black voters. Latino voters were closely divided.

People who said they attended religious services weekly were overwhelmingly voting for the measure, while those who said that they occasionally or never went to religious services were voting no.

Voters older than 65 voted mostly for the proposition, while those in the 18-29 range voted against it.

Read more on the article here.

--Jessica Garrison and Cara Mia DiMassa

Comments

[Pat Bridgman]

NO ON 8
Why yes on 8? if your argument is that its against god then does every husband or wife that commits adultry deserve to die? and it does say an eye for an eye right? so thinking that way gangs going back and forth killing is perfectly okay because its an eye for an eye..
"an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".. Gandhi
VOTE NO ON PROP 8..
gay people have feelings too.. they are individuals like you and me.. they are you and me just they want to spend their lives with someone of the same sex.. if you are a man you know that girls appear differently to all men.. some love sexy little girls.. some love big girls.. some love asians.. it is preference.. it is how you are born.. it IS how gay people are born.
please lets not discriminate..

[Xenia in Canada]

Hey, if 8 passes, we'd be more than happy to welcome all the people affected here to British Columbia, where we're all freedom-loving - kinda the way America it seems only likes to claim it does. Come on up north of 49! :)

[Jonathan]

It's not discrimination.

Pre same-sex marriage times, any man, gay or straight, could marry any women (provided she would have him). Likewise, any woman, lesbian or straight, could marry any man (provided she could find one she was willing to put up with). Regardless of your sexual preference, everyone had the right to marry someone of the opposite sex (without regard to race, religion, color, nationality, and, yes again, sexual preference, etc). Equal rights all around--everyone can marry someone of the opposite sex.

No one, neither straight nor gay, had the right to marry someone of the same sex. Still equal rights all around. If straight men could marry other men and gay men couldn't, that would be discrimination. If straight men could marry women and gay men couldn't, that would be discrimination. Vice versa on the women--same principle.

To be able to marry a person of your same sex is a new right and one that hasn't been available to anyone until recently. Certainly gay people are interested in having this new right. Many straight people aren't interested in it at all and don't think that anyone should have it. Some clever straight people may decide there is some sort of financial/tax advantage/loop hole making it worthwhile to be married (if only temporarily). And more official marriages also means more official divorces so the lawyers are also happy. Regardless, it is a new right that will be available to both straight and gay people.

There are other issues that no one currently has the right to do but there are some segments of society that may want them: polygamy, polyandry, incest, pedophilia, cannibalism, driving on the left side of the road. Certainly, there will be a proposition constitutionally prohibiting these if a set of judges makes one of the above a new "right" for everyone to partake of.

Regardless of whether you approve or disapprove of this new right of a same-sex marriage, don't play the discrimination card. It's not.

[Mina]

When you take your vows, you are promising to GOD and no one else how you will treat your spouse. Therefore no one else has the right to tell someone who they can or can't marry. I am sick and tired of people who call themselves Christians trying to do God's job. Crack open a Bible, people. ONLY God can judge. When you die you will have to stand in front of God and tell Him why YOU felt you had the right to stop someone (in God's name, no less) from marrying who they chose. You are to LOVE your neighbor and nowhere in the Bible are there exceptions to that commandment. Perhaps more time actually LIVING God's word more and less time trying to do His job would make this world a better place.

[Richard]

Yes Steve, I would support Phillip Buble relationship if the dog in question could answer for himself and was a consenting adult. As it is now dog's are considered property and thus could never consent to such a relationship.

[LG]

Yes on Prop 8 - Marriage IS a religious thing! Why does a gay person even care to be held under religious laws when they laugh in the face of God by disobeying His very laws? This is not a "right" to arry who you want....it's a priviladge to be right under God, by your commitment to God through marriage. If you are gay....you aren't commited to God....you are commited to "self".

What I don't understand is why the government is so involved in the church when there is "supposedly" a separation of chuch and state. Where does the governemtn have a right to interfere with te churh and its laws? Why would a preacher be forced to marry anyone! Even man and woman go through counseling before marriage....those who don't and end up in a justice o the peace....are not truely married under God and usually end up divorced. This is sad. Marriage is no longer looked at as a lifelong commitment to another human being under God.....but simply a way to be able to share your retirement check or get better insurace rates. here is God in that? This is the ONLY reason there is marriage....because biblical traditions call for a man and a woman to unite!

Gay marriage in this country is just one more abomination to that holy sanctification of marriage and what God stands for through marriage. If you are preferring a life of homosexuality.....you are making a statement of preferance.... that turns your back on God. It is said in the bible that no gay person will inherit the kingdom of heaven. Why then would anyone who has chosen this lifestle want anything to do with God, through the holy union of marriage?

[Teddy]

I am completely against Prop 8. I am gay, and am entering into my 11th year with my partner. The fact of the matter is that WE ARE MARRIED emotionally and Proposition 8 will never change that. Instead, it takes away and precludes many of the rights that you mo fos who are for 8 take for granted like joint property, inheritance, and the right to make medical decisions on each others behalf.

I really do not care about the religious institution of marriage. I really do not care about kids in schools being taught about gay marriage or gays in general. Proposition 8 in effect diminishes the separation of church and state, and therefore diminishes the so-called religious freedom that has been used to justify this hateful and despicable proposition, because the state can now regulate religious ceremonies. What is next? One sect of Christianity being the official state sanctioned sect of Christianity?

As for the entire exposure of kids to sexuality, I am absolutely most of you let your kids watch violent TV shows, and movies like SAW. Yet, you have a problem with kids being taught about a particular minority group (and yes it is a minority group) whose sole distinction is that they love someone different or in a different way than you. You are a bunch of hypocrital morons. I hope your kids become mass murders and do you in.

[Jennifer]

If everyone's really so worried about marriage, abolish divorce.

In fact, we might as well put all of God's laws back into practice. It's all in Leviticus, right? "Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you." God hates Red Lobster. Forget about the gays, San Francisco's going to burn in hell for clam chowder!

[jael]

ARE ALL OF U VOTERS ON NO FOR PROP 8 BLIND!!!!!

ILL TELL U HOW THEASE ABNORMAL PEOPLE EFFECT OUR FAMILY BY SHOWING OUR CHILDREN BY EXAMPLE ITS OKAY TO LOVE UR OWN SEX AND MARRY THEM FOR EVERYONES INFO SAMORA AND GOMMORAH IS A TRUE STORY, IF THIS PROP 8 PASSES IN FAVOR OF THE FREAKS WE ARE GOING TO SEE GREAT CALAMITYS HIT CALIFORNIA BUT THE WORD HAS CAME TO PASS THAT IN THE FUTURE MEN WILL FALL FOR ONE ANOTHER AND TURN FROM THIER NATURAL WAYS WOMEN WILL BURN WITH LUST FOR ONE ANOTHER THIS IS HOW WE WILL KNOW THE TIME IS NEAR FOR HIM TO RETURN JESUS! BE ASHAMED PEOPLE AND TURN AWAY YOU ARE BEING GREATLY DECIEVED YOU ARE SHOWING OUR INNOCENT CHILDREN ABOMINATIONS, PLEASE YES ON 8
YES ON 8
YES ON 8
YES ON 8
YOU LIBERALS DONT BE FOOLS U AS WELL ARE BEING DECIEVED!
YES ON 8 WE DO HATE8 ON SAME SEX MARRIAGE!

[tanya]

Wow really? Passing prop 8 will lead to Marrying your relatives? I voted no on Prop 8 because discrimination is wrong. Incest is illegal because it leads to child deformities. Genes that are too similiar creating off spring cause genetic defects, obviously the people that believe that are inbred if they really believe that gays marrying each other is the same thing.

[londa]

This vote should have never been for the people to decide, it's a cruel, thrown in the face attempt to get the results without taking the blame from the public.

When it comes to a public vote and what one thinks is "right" for me, that really scares me.

It is most ridiculous that issues such as this are time wasting, hate enducing tactics by our government when alcohol is freely sold to the public that causes health problems, family crisis, car accidents, death and tobacco is sold freely for use even though it causes all types of health problems, yet we spend time and millions of dollars saying whether or not this is "right'.

Anyone who vote YES on Prop 8, should be ashamed.

Londa

[James Nease]

The only reason this is an issue is because the state took upon itself the right to control and regulate marriages. To solve this totally dissolve governments influences from marriage make it purely a ceremonial/religious matter with no tax benefits or political standing just social acceptance.

Therefore, you are granted rights under the first amendment to marry what you wish... Wanna marry the same sex? Sure go ahead find a church that will do that for you! Wann marry seven wives? Go to Utah they'll do it for you. Wanna marry your pet gerbil? Find someone to provide the ceremony and enjoy the PVC pipe!

Marriage =/= function of the goverment

If so we would still have prima nocta

[Ugly American]

You people ALWAYS say keep religion out of this issue - you really want religion out of this Proposition 8 argument, huh? FINE! Let's take religion out of it and argue from a leftist, atheist perspective that I'm sure your liberal palates can appreciate.

You remember the "Law" of Evolution that you successfully force down our children's throats every day in school, right? Well, exactly what biological purpose do homosexuals serve? Where do they promote the "fitness" of our specie? How do they propogate the progeny into the next generation? Your own "Lord Darwin" predicted that natural selection should progressively eliminate confounding factors such as homosexuality that would reduce individual female fecundity and overall specie fitness. DARWIN DESPISED HOMOSEXUALS. Look it up.

You say that this gay marriage issue is not going to be forced on our children in public school? Take the above policy example as a historic parallel - you liberals wanted Creationism and/or Intelligent Design out of the public school curriculum completely and want the "Law" of Evolution taught as the only possible explanation. You've succeeded. Congratulations. Now why should I believe you even for a nanosecond that my "opt-out" right as a parent won't be taken away "for the common good"?

You people are hypocrites - "stay out of my bedroom Uncle Sam", but when you want your agenda force fed to society you are all too eager to use the government and the courts to try and forcefully change society.

This whole homosexual movement is based on a psychological dysfunction of your sexual identity, as well as the simple fact that homosexuals "don't feel loved enough" by society. Listen, just because your Daddy did't love his queer son / daughter doesn't give you the right to legislate from the bench so that you can now force society to become your surrogate parental figure in your adult life. Love is not love if it is taken, under threat of legal penalty, or through indoctrination of our children in the social incubators you call the public school system. You people used to hide in closets and now you hide behind the activist courts to further your agenda. Just take a look at Canada and how they treat priests and pastors who dare to quote the Bible's "homophobic hate speech." And you say it won't happen here - yeah, right.

Thank God the conservatives still own most of the guns. When the revolution comes we'll be ready. Will you?

[Joe Bishop]

Voting yes on prop 8 has nothing to do with discrimination. It's all about preserving traditional marriage. 30-40 years ago this was never an issue and never would've been considered. What once was tolerated was later accepted and now is being embraced. Our founding fathers would turn over in their graves to think that this is even an issue.

"YOU LIBERALS DONT BE FOOLS U AS WELL ARE BEING DECIEVED!
YES ON 8 WE DO HATE8 ON SAME SEX MARRIAGE!

Posted by: jael | November 04, 2008 at 10:09 PM "

Yes, well at least we deceived liberals will go down with respectable grammar, spelling, and capitalization.

[Kathleen]

How can people not understand that civil marriage has nothing to do with religion or church?

My son, who was born in California, deserves the same right to a civil marriage as your straight children do. I am crushed to think that California of all places is going to ammend their constitution to strip my child of his right to a civil marriage. My heart is absolutely broken.

You can have your religious weddings, whey can't my son have his civil wedding?

[Tristan]

Im a confirmed Catholic, In recognition that everyone sins, all mortal sins are the same, and Each brother and sister's sin is unique, I vote no on prop 8. Besides, Who am I to change state law due to my own religion. To do so is selfish :(

Tristan. Age 18

[MIke5050]

PROP 8 is going to PASS! Thank God. The Bible says that homosexuality is a SIN. If you don't agree, you don't believe the Bible. You can't make up your religion. God loves ALL of US, but, he has rules and expectations. He doesn't want men sleeping with men. He calls that an abomination and says that NO HOMOSEXUAL will enter the kingdom of Heaven. How can you deny that ? It's written ALL throught the Bible. This is not my opinion, it's Gods!

[Hailey]

Haha! i love how in the picture theres a old lady with a yes sign and a teenager with a no sign and then theres a dud wit a Mervyns sign! lmao! he must feel so awkward! haha!

[John]

The majority of the people speaking on behalf of passing Proposition 8 do so based on some concept of "marriage began as a union ordained by God". What is implied there is YOUR god. Apparently Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and others should NOT be allowed to marry - their "traditions" are not the Christian traditions "on which this country is based". How ludicrous! We are a nation of many diverse beliefs - something which has ALWAYS been our strength. Throughout history, this great country has led the world simply because we value the diversity of beliefs and opinions of our citizenry. Yet when it comes to "gay marriage", so many of our brethren just lose their ability to think straight (no pun intended). You think the "gay lifestyle" is against God's wishes - so is divorce, eating shellfish, and many other things. Other religions believe none of these things. Who are you to impose your religious views on the rest of the country? You may think that yours is the "one true religion" - so everyone else who does not agree with your views is inferior and should not have the same rights as you? Our ability to value the differences in opinion of all our people is what sets us apart from religious theocracies across the world. Ensure that the United States of America continues to be the shining light in this world, the country which treats everyone in this nation as equals under the eyes of the law, regardless of political, relgious, racial or other differences!

[Marie]

Marriage is such an odd word. If Prop 8 passes, I would like the division of Church and State to be made perfectly clear, as it would seem not many in California understand it. Religious authorities should no longer be able to hand out civil marriage certificates just as the state doesn't hand out religious marriage certificates. Be married before a judge and before your preacher, they are separate... And marriage is -just- a word.

[Jdizon]

It's really sad to see the comments on here. I am engaged and it turns out that people who voted Yes on 8 have no idea what it feels like to have no support in marrying the one you love or to have any benefits. Is it really fair? What it comes down to is homophobia. It will be a long struggle for us to be equal. It's okay for a straight couple to love and be married but not Gays, Lesbians or Bi? I am very happy to see others who voted NO, and it tells me that one day it will happen. Same sex marriage may not be equal now, but if Barack Obama as being the first Black president has finally made it here - then I'm hoping that everyone will someday realize that Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals, Transgendered Individuals deserve the same right to marry.

[Jeremy]

When are you people going to stop letting your invisible friend and book of fairytales and myths tell you what to do? Think for yourself!

[tara]

Isn't it great that gay people already get all the benefits of marriage through the "domestic partnership" law? How wonderful they get the exact same rights! That's what it's about right? Even Barack Obama and Joe Biden say publicly that marriage should be between a man and a woman. In fact, I agree with BArack Obama on that.

[no right]

it is NOT about the right to marry who you want! It is about the moral issue of homosexuality. Is it right or wrong? if that were true that everyone has the right to chose who they want to marry than shouldn't a brother be able to marry his sister? shouldn't cousins be able to marry? how about a father and his daughter? Biologically homosexuality is WRONG!!! You can't procreate and have babies if you're a homosexual. It wasn't God/Nature's purpose for a man and another man to have sex because they can't have children. So for the purposes of reproducing and making sure that humanity continues to thrive, homosexuality is not the answer!

[Erika]

i don't think this prop should have even started. who does it affect besides people who are gay. for people who vote yes on prop 8, how does this affect you? how does people who are gay getting married affect your life? it shouldn't. it doesn't even involve you
NO on prop 8

[dylan]

It's pretty simple really. People originally got the idea of marriage from where? There minds? no. they got it from the Bible. even if you don't believe in it, the Bible was written and it was accepted by just about EVERYBODY. That is why marriage is what it is today. If you don't agree with that, how else did it happen, and why didn't homosexuality show up until more advanced civilizations, and homosexuals in those civilizations were mocked? because all knew that it was wrong. I don't agree with mocking homosexuals, but i don't agree with letting them marry when they don't need to. the only reason they would need to marry is for legal benefits, hence the domestic partnership.

[Brandon Picardal]

if im not allowed to get married then straight people should only be allowed to marry once.
How dumb is that. we have hearts too you know and dreams as well.

[Benjamin]

That is so incredibly bizarre in that Barack Obama is very vocal about his support of gay folks. It's weird that African Americans would be so opposed to Same Sex Marriage after they know that the President that the majority of them are electing is very supportive of the gay community. The California African American community should be ashamed of itself if they vote Yes on prop 8. They know better.

[LD]

Blacks support Prop 8?
This is unbelievable to me-- the fact that they who have cried and been discriminated against would now stand and discriminate against another group.

I am ashamed- especially on a historic night like tonight!

[Tariq Aziz]

Everyone IS being treated equally. Everyone has the right to marry someone of the opposite sex! What is discriminatory about that? I can marry a woman, while a woman can marry a man.

Many in the gay community want to tear down marriage, family, and religion. You're lying if you say that you don't want children taught about gay relationships in school. You know you do! You want your activities to be taught as a normal thing that everyone should consider for themselves.

What you're trying to say is that God was wrong when he made you a man or a woman. God wasn't wrong and you've made a choice to be gay.

Don't believe in God? Well, how about natural selection? How does "I was born gay" work with natural selection? How can a population that doesn't reproduce offspring maintain and even increase their population?

So God is wrong, and so is Darwin. Where do you go from here?

[Dio Brando]

A vote for Prop. 8 is a vote to have people like Matthew Shepard and Harvey Milk murdered in cold blood(as they were).

That fits every bit as much as gay marriage apparently forcing children to learn that they should not be forced to follow the Christian faith if they're not Christian.

[Eddie]

As a Christian, context must be brought to the Christian view concerning homosexuality: Christians maintain the ability to distinguish people from their actions. That is, we do not hate gay people, we simply believe that what they do is wrong and has a negative influence on society; like the illegal use of drugs or polygamy.

We hold this to be true not on our own accord, or prefernce for a morality of our own choosing, but rather one that orignates from a divine source - God. If you belive in God, there is no dispute that the act of homosexualtiy is wrong - just as sexually peverted acts of adultery, beastiality, and child molestation are wrong. We believe it is a perversion, not a right or freedom.

No other human being is granted the "right" to engage in such behavior, then merely make the claim that they were just born that way. Niether my wife, nor the judicial system, will accept the excuse that I was just born with the adulterer and/or child molestation gene. "I'm sorry judge, forgive me, I was born that way." It simply would not fly, nor is it excusable.

The Bible says that there is coming a day when people will call that which is good evil, and that which is evil good. I'm sure there are many of us who would agree that we are witnessing that day. Homosexuality is wrong. And simply put, if you don't repent and change, you will not be with God. God sends noone to hell; the gates of hell lock from the inside. Christians tell you that because they love you. That's what real love is: It voices what needs to be said, not what you would prefer to hear.

It amazes me how those who label themselves as tolerant, and who procalim that Christians (along with every other religion on the planet) are intolerant, are so intolerant of the alleged intolerant.

[christobal hernandez]

as a latino, catholic i definitely voted NOOOO on 8 no matter what i believe as a catholic, church and state MUST be seperated, this country was built on freedom, freedom of religion, so just because my god says its wrong doesnt mean you have to follow it, thats absolutely ridiculous its actually embarrassing that this type of prop is even on the ballot do we really not have any bigger issues to worry about than if a man wants to marry a man? LET them they not making me marry someone i dont want to they not affecting my life... oh and all you "FREAKS" saying oh what about the children what am i going to tell my children? how can i explain that to them? its YOUR JOB TO PARENT YOUR kids! SO PARENT THEM!!! dont shy away and take away a groups BASIC CIVIL RIGHTS cause your embarrassed to have certain conversations with your kids, just tell them what you believe and raise them how you want to they gonna have to be their own person and see the world so no sense in sheltering them it will only make them look bad later.... NO ON PROP 8 is the clear choice... unless your a bigot

[Peter G]

It will be a sad day for California if Prop 8 passes. As many people believe that marriage is between a man and woman. From the India to royalty of the past, marriage was used as a political and monetary form to ensure the livelihood of a family. Strategic marriages between two royal family enhanced their strength in control of a kingdom or a country. For fixed marriages, it was about what one male can give to the family of another, women were treated as chattel and property. So to all who says marriage is a tradition of man and woman on the basis in god's eyes. Don't be fooled by the religious rhetoric. How do we know that the bible wasn't edited and is from a point of view of a man who believed that God spoke to them.

Also, California is moving backward by voting yes on Proposition 8. Since the late 1800's to the 1940's, California made it illegal for blacks, asians, malay to marry whites. Who knows, maybe in the future, bigotry and hatred may rear its head and try to bring back discrimination through marriage. Oh wait that's going to happen now if Prop 8 passes.

[julie88b]

Thank you Canada for your kind offer to let gay people go to Canada. I think the liberals would rather bash this great country. But the people have spoken. Twice. We don't want gay marriage no matter how high you shriek!

[Timothyvoiceofreason]

Protect marriage from what exactly? When will we move forward from this? Vote no.

[Chris]

I think its hilarious all the kids on here saying "I'm 15 and say yes on prop 8, its just wrong". I would hate to be brainwashed by religion.

There's a reason why you kids cant vote yet.

[Benjamin]

Those of you who make bigoted scriptural interpretations of the Bible not only do the Bible a disservice but you do God's gay and lesbian children a major disservice. The Bible does not use the word or name homosexual. It cannot be found within its passages. There is nothing in the Bible that says that the people of Sodam and Gomorah were homosexual. Nothing whatsoever. The people of Sodam were incredibly mean, selfish, filled with hate and jealousy. They hated the poor. That reminds me of some of the self-righteous churches of our day. I can see Jesus saying to those who would reject and take the civil rights away from a portion of God's children (his gay and lesbian children) depart from me I really never knew you.

[JordanJ]

Last time i checked America was one nation UNDER GOD!!! Thats in the constitution, and its what the country is founded upon. We try to define what this country is and what it stands for, and yet something like gay marriage is even on the ballot. It really makes me sad that its became something we compare with civil rights. Your born black or white, your not born desiring to have sexual relations with your same sex. It may be a temptation that you have, but that doesn't make it ok to act it out. So lets say I'm born with a violent tendancy, and its hard for me to control my temper, does that make it ok for me to beat my wife? In essence thats what we're saying about gay marriage, that its ok to just do whatever we feel like and not try to control ourselves. We've lost sight of so much in this country, and its a very scary time. Comparing homosexuallty to beasteality is not that far fetched or unfair, its a wrong choice in both cases and an abomination. If you just plain don't believe in God then there's really nothing i can say to you that will matter, but if you do then I really can't understand how you think it'd be ok for gays to be married, and really to say that what there doing is fine.

[Jaime Sue]

Whose religious freedom is at risk here? Some people think their god should define marriage not just for themselves but for everyone. It is not anyone's right to force their religious beliefs into the lives of others. It's appalling that all these religious organizations have gathered together, not to promote tolerance, love, compassion, not to do anything to help people but rather to spend MILLIONS of dollars trying to take away the rights of others. NO ON 8!

[Perry]

I am completely giddy and overjoyed with the results so far which show that Proposition 8 will pass! YESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!! Major major happiness! I don't want gay marraige to be shoved down the throat of my children. And besides, this isn't about tolerance of gays. I am tolerant of gays and even support civil unions. Gay marriage is a tenet of marxism. The plot to destroy the remaining values and what little union still exists in the USA involves the destruction of the family. And gay marraige is all about that. Yes on Prop 8! Save our union! Save our family! And no, I am not even religious, not even in the slightest. So judge me if you will or call me a liar or think low of me, but at least I know I'm telling the truth.

[maggie]

Ok, if marriage is only for men & women then stop using it, the word, for describing anything else coming together. I call it the M word, its ok to use it for everything else but God forbid two consenting taxpaying gay human adults want to do it. Prisoners, some murderers, never to leave a jail cell can get married to someone on the outside but not two same sex taxpaying adults. Also why dont we put our money where are mouth is and put up a ban on divorce if heterosexual marriage is so perfect and for those who dont seem to be aware, gay people have children everyday, it just isnt that difficult to figure out. One more thing if I cant have equal rights then I really think I shouldnt have to pay equal taxes, more taxes, I get to pay single. And one more little thing, when that old book was written by whom is still a big question to me, we needed to populate the world at the time, we're damn populated now and if that doesnt work for ya then you need to be reading every word of that book and live it, every passage and stop picking and choosing what passages you get to live by. My life is between me and God and Im not worried, Im not keeping rights away from other humans in the land of the free, ha! Gay marriage doesnt hurt anyone in any way, if anything it makes a more stable society. Isnt that one of the pros of marriage? Really people come on already and stop letting fear run your life. How would you like it if someone told you that you couldnt marry the person you love? God knows whats in my heart. I dont fear God for one second. Im one of the biggest liberals in the land, like Jesus liberal. I believe in peace, love and treating those the way you want to be treated. Im not a child and dont need to be treated like one. Im gay, was born that way and I believe 100% that God made me this way. If, if Im wrong and God really wants me damned then thats between God and me and no one else. So once again with all the problems in the world, starving children, homeless families, people dying because they have no health insurance, people without utilities, vets. needing tons of body rebuilding equip. etc. pick your problem, was the 70, + million dollars used to stop a bunch of harmless queers from getting married a really good use of the money. All I know is God is watching. Peace to you and yours, Maggie

[Kilo]

Doesn't divorce destroy the family?..single family households?..what about kids raised in Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, or Taoist, or Wiccan families...shouldn't those kids be protected too?

[teaaa]

YES on prop 8.

Same sex marriage is not a civil right.
Civil rights are to guarantee fundamental rights for individuals of all races. Race is an unchangeable human trait, defined by DNA and observable at birth. Homosexuality is not observable at birth and is therefor a "sexual orientation." If sexual orientation is categorized as a civil right, then so is pedophilia, polygamy, and incest.

And although the homosexuality may look like it has nothing to do with pedophilia and polygamy, statistics show that the countries that have already legalized same-sex marriage has seen moral decline. In the netherlands (legalized same-sex marriage in 2001), incest and polygamy's legalization soon followed their same-sex legalization. Denmark also accepted same-sex unions in 2004 (just four years ago) and the school system produced a sex education CD for high school students that contained explicit portraits of homosexual sex as well as threesome sex.
source: www.brusselsjournal.com/node/301

In addition, elementary students in Massachusetts are role-playing being lesbian and gay. This baffles me; i never role-played being heterosexual when I was younger, why should schools be encouraging such behavior at such a young age?

Marriage is also a union between a man and a woman, originally defined by the church. Even without marriage homosexuals who are living together receive the health care benefits and others that heterosexuals get. If it was originally defined by the church, then why try to change the definition a few thousand years later just because of a minority of people?

[concerned]

in ocean grove nj, a lesbian couple signed up for a wedding on a nice piece of property on the beach owned by a church. When the church found out they were homosexual, the church respectfully found another accommodation for the couple. The couple sued the church for the right to marry on the church's property.

In Newton MA the high school held a "gay day" with activities on ALL students' agendas.

A kindergarten teacher in CA brought her students to a lesbian wedding.

These have already happened. Who was it again that was saying that gay marriage doesnt affect me?

[Troy]

Voting YES on Prop 8 will not remove anyone's rights. Everyone still has the right to marry someone of the opposite sex. Gay people just choose to not exercise that right. There are many rights that people have that they choose to not use, there is nothing wrong with that.

[Tina]

I've been teaching for 21 years in primary grades. NEVER EVER do I discuss marriages. I would NEVER vote for HATE which is what this is about as it is a vote for DISCRIMINATION.

I am a PROUD supporter of the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNTIED STATES OF AMERICA and the PURSUIT OF LIFE LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. ....EQUALITY FOR EVERYONE PLEASE.

Your children will be better for it knowing that if they end up being gay, they can live a happy life with all their dreams satisified.

THIS IS NOT A THEOCRACY...didn't we FIGHT to get rid of the THEOCRACY in ENGLAND.

RESPECT other people and don't impose your religious morals on the rest of us please.

GOD loves me more because I treat everyone as equals. : )

[Humanity]

I think what this all comes down to is whether or not you believe that the institution of marriage is from God for a sacred purpose of raising families to honor him. As a person of faith, I believe that our creator gave us marriage . It is spelled out clearly in the scriptures I read. It began Adam the father of humanity. He has wiped out civilizations that have turned their backs on him. - Its so sad to see people put their faith on the back burner, just to be politically correct. - In the last days things that are evil will be thought of as good.....and things that are good will be thought of as evil........isnt that the truth..

[nicole]

everyone is equal.
people have the right to marry anyone they want to; black, white, asian, gay, straight, etc.
in the opinion that children NEED both a "mom" and a "dad," think about single parents, and divorced couples. i mean, two straight people that are on the brink of hurting each other have more of the right to get married than two gay people who love each other? who has the right to define love? who defines marriage? marriage should be about love and the union of two people as one. California was one of the first places in the United States that performed gay marriages. In my opinion, California is ahead because of that. We are innovators. We create change and have more tolerance for all kinds of people than other states do. California is diverse and our ideas and ideals are mixed; that's why I like living here. We all have our own opinions, but we have to step outside ourselves in situations like this.
Also, I would like to see an argument for Prop. 8 that doesn't mention religion and the "sanctity of marriage." i mean, sure your religion says that gay people go to hell, but hey, I'm Catholic myself, and i don't believe that. If gay people are bound to go to hell, why are they here in the first place? no offense to anyone, but really.
Did your teachers really teach about marriage in school? because me and all other kinds of kids were never taught about it. we all went to different schools. Love is undefined. Marriage is romantic. but who "teaches" marriage? to me, that's insane. we were taught what's right and wrong, but to vote for or against Prop. 8 goes against what we think what's right and wrong and what we were taught what's right and wrong. people are just people. you never really know.
Our generation is more accepting than the older generations. i mean, i'm 15 and almost every person i asked at school would vote NO on Prop. 8 if they had the chance. i still have hope for this though. you never know. maybe this issue might pop up again when we're older. maybe then we'll win this.
everyone is equal, we are created in the same way, we all have the same feelings, we have to help others who are ignored and discriminated in the world, we are people. and we are equal.

[Zack]

" Posted by: Brittany Bee | November 04, 2008 at 08:56 PM

"i am a hispanic female. in her 40 s and i voteted no on 8 i belive that no one should tell anyone who they can marry ." quoting someone

Your not telling who you can marry your saying what marriage is. Thats the problem, marriage isn't between a man and a man or a woman and a woman.If you want to be blind sighted and say that its marriage go ahead, but you should not allow a law that requires others to call something that it isn't."

The above was a quote from what I believe to be the most ignorant person of this subject on these comments.

Do you really believe marriage is just between a man and a woman? You say, that we should not allow a law that requires others to call it something that it is not. Well, let's read the dictionary definition of MARRIAGE.

marriage

mar·riage [ márrij ] (plural mar·riages)

noun
Definition:

1. legal relationship between spouses: a legally recognized relationship, established by a civil or religious ceremony, between two people who intend to live together as sexual and domestic partners

2. specific marriage relationship: a married relationship between two people, or a somebody's relationship with his or her spouse
They have a happy marriage.

3. joining in wedlock: the joining together in wedlock of two people

4. marriage ceremony: the ceremony in which two people are joined together formally in wedlock

5. union of two things: a close union, blend, or mixture of two things
Civilization is based on the marriage of tradition and innovation.

6. card games king and queen of same suit: in card games such as pinochle and bezique, a combination of the king and queen of the same suit

Now, through any of these definitions, do you see anything about man and man, or woman and woman, or man and woman? The simple answer is NO. I have heard MANY different opinions on this subject, from classmates, people on websites such as these, and of course people are entitled to their opinion. Am I also able to say people are ignorant of specific subjects upon which they are typing, yes. You mam, are ignorant on the subject. You say, marriage "is" or "should" be between a man and a woman; well where do these accusations come from? Some say from "TRADITION", others say from "GOD". You know what I say, if LEGAL rights are taken away from any one party, they should be taken away from ALL parties. Let it be known, that I am in NO WAY a racist, sexist or any other demeaning term for the following statement. If these legal rights shall be taken away from Homosexuals, then let's also take away women's right to vote. Before women's suffrage it was "TRADITION" for women not to vote. Let us also, take away African American FREEDOM to do as they please, this was also "TRADITION" before Martin Luthor King made a most needed change. The list can go on. The last thing on my mind that I believe needs to be heard, is the fact that most people who vote yes on prop 8 do it for the main reason of being afraid. They are afraid that their children will be subject to the teachings that being homosexual is "O.K.". They are afraid that their children will be taught this subject EVEN IN SCHOOL. My simple answer to this is, cast a ballot to reform the SCHOOL TEACHING SYSTEM. I was speaking with a high school teacher in my organic chemistry class today, when we were having a kind debate on proposition 8, and the subject of children being taught in schools popped up. He informed me that the subjects that teachers can actually teach their students are VAGUE. There are loopholes that professors can go around without being lawfully convicted, and in turn, teach meaningless things to children in schools. My final summary is to say, do not waste your time on something that WILL COME with change. Adaptation is the easiest accomplishment of mankind. We have adapted and evolved for MANY MANY years, and sooner or later, everyone will conform to something. I hope this clears up much debate about this issue, as voting has already passed. I am a simple 20 year old student at American River College. I am pre-medical and of course have my own opinion. I hope you all do too, and make the choice that best suites your BELIEFS! THANK YOU ALL, good night.

[Andrew]

Congratulations Obama. Yes on 8! From an evolutionary point of view, gay marriages just don't work.

[joseph Maverick]

Yes on Prop 8! its not about gay marriages, its about the kids... whats next? these people have kids and then they raise these adopted children or children they have from previous relationship into a home with two moms, two dads? It is a proven psychological requirement that children need both mother and father role models in their life.. Kids are often teased in school who are subjected to gay relationships for parents and voting no would increase the traditional values that we are raised on by have a normal home setting for our children and the culture they are raised in... you say it doesn't effect me? well it does... our kids should have to be subjected to your decisions...

[Richard Eisenman]

Dave Albulario: this is dumb. You can still go down to city hall and get a civil union with the same legal rights. You won't get to waste
Gavin Newsome's time and tax payer money having him preside over your ceremony, but big deal. Prop 8 doesn't outlaw your getting a gay marriage in any of numerous churches (like the american Episcopalian church) that support the concept.

If anything is a violation of church and state separation its Gavin Newsome performing what are essentially religious ceremonies on the steps of city hall. The only thing goverment should be doing for couples is collecting fees, stamping forms and issuing and recording licenses for marriage, civil unions and other legal entities.

Don't come crying to government for emotional support of your lifestyle choices. If you want emotional support, go to the church of your choice. The mormons don't expect city hall to sanctify them, why should you?

[Brian]

I'm disgusted that this discrimination is even happening. Talk about a step back in personal freedom! I'm a happily married straight man and I don't see any positive justification for this proposition other than letting religious fanatics keep thier heads buried in the sand a little longer. Wake up parents!! If you don't already know this, your kids have already learned about homosexuality from TV, Movies, Print, friends, and YOU. If you're not a good enough parent to help your children understand what biological sexual preferences mean, then SHAME ON YOU!! but don't punish and discriminate against an entire group of people because your parenting is inadequate to prepare your children for life. Schools will teach your kids things in the classroom sure, but they'll learn a whole lot more outside the class that you cannot protect them from. GET OVER IT Welcome to the human race.

[saturniscapri]

I voted YES!! on prop 8 not because i feel women should only be with men or being gay is wrong. I voted that way because i dont want my child exposed to this in any shape or form and getting mixed messages in school. Also, yes this IS discrimination, BUT this is religious belief( no same sex union). What gives gays and lesbians the right to come in and force their ways onto something that is sacred UNDER THE LORD,, the same lord that does not recognize or will bless this same sex " marriage" I think they are just doing it to try to slap the church in the face because the churches have always turned their backs on this sort of thing...

[Katie]

it is so entertaining to me that straight people feel threatened by gay marriage..as a young, straight, single woman, living at the beach in southern california, gay marriage is the LEAST of my worries! Grow up and grow a brain and heart, people...get out of the dark ages and stop drinking the kool-aid! and you religious finatics- stop being so hippocritical...maybe you all will never learn that though.. however...at least we have Obama now!!!!!

[Ang]

Prop 8 claims to "protect marriage." Who are they kidding? Whose marriage specifically is being protected?
The truth is if we really want to protect marriage, we would not try to stop two consenting adults who love each other to legalize their commitment. Any comparison to bestiality, incest, etc is just plain ignorance.
Prop 8 is regressive and it is discrimination.
Good for everyone that had the common sense to vote NO.

[LAX]

Religious rights or gay rights...one of them has got to give. Both cannot exist in the same domain.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91486191

[alex]

people wake the hell up, i dont care what religion u are or what ur religion said. you dont have the right to tell someone what they can or cant do. this country isn't ran on a theocracy, and just becasue ur religion is against gay marriage doenst mean u can make others follow what u believe. it doesn't effect you in any way shape or form, and for any people that say children need parent figures you just sound stupid, there are tons of single parents, and its been found that gay parents do just as well as strait parents, go check up on the facts. All you religious people are selfish and are oppressing other people while complaing that your rights are being oppressed? please get a clue and stay in your church, i dont tell you what to do, you shouldn't tell others what to do.

[Lester G.]

In the end, it's all about the WILL OF THE PEOPLE. Since the WILL OF THE PEOPLE voted "No" for Gay Marriages last time, this 2nd nail in the coffin should, ultimately, be respected.

We live in a D-E-M-O-C-R-A-C-Y after all.

[MissC]

Marriage is a beautiful thing. It's a bond between two people who love each other and will be faithful till death do they part. When marriage is between a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, this simply destroys the meaning of marriage. I acknowledge that gays and lesbians have rights, but to consider their unity a "marriage" is an abomination to creation itself.

Adam was made for Eve and Eve for Adam (As God created us to be)
Protect marriage and YES on Prop 8. If it doesn't pass, welcome to the beginning of the end of the true meaning of marriage.

Sooner or later, who knows brother and sister (incest) should have legal rights to marriage too? and then what if man and dog come too?

It's unnatural. Children from gay or lesbian parents will be confused about themselves, the world, everything! And if the children learn that it's normal to be gay or lesbian, even though they have the choice to pick either straight or gay/lesbian, they will probably inherit what their parents chose. And more generations will become gay....

There goes the demise of America if PROP 8 doesn't pass!!

Marriage is sacred and should not be ripped of its intended use.

[Lauren]

What is next? Take away a gay person's rights to celebrate Christmas?

NO on 8.

[Sidris]

For those of you who contend that same sex marriage will lead to marriage between relatives - get a clue! Marriage between relatives aka *incest* was outlawed for medical reasons. Genetic ones to be more succinct.

Those of you who contend that same sex marriage is "unnatural" or against God's law need to get a clue, too. What's better? A traditional marriage with the nuclear 2.5 kids who live in poverty and abuse or a non-traditional union based in love and with fully contributing members of society?

Those who voted Yes on Prop 8 and who base their beliefs upon the hypocrisy of religion are the ones who need to be written out of the Constitution.

Wise up, you stupid, cruel God fearing fundamentalists.

[Dave in NC]

As a former Californian I have been interested in the results of the vote on this proposition. I am saddened to see that my favorite state, the state that leads the rest of the country when it comes to progressive thinking might defeat this proposition. As a straight male, I would feel NO THREAT if gays/lesbians are granted the same rights that I have. In fact I feel MUCH MORE THREATENED by the reality that we still, as a population, find it acceptable to deny rights to certain segments of the population based on arbitrary criteria. For those of you who make the religious argument I have two comments.
1) NONE OF YOU KNOW WHAT GOD "WANTS" OR "THINKS". You only know what other human beings purporting to speak for God want or think.
2) You should actually read the Bible, which you claim guides you on these matters...read it from cover to cover. You will find that it is a book full of contradictions, absurdities, archaic ideas with a few beautiful and insightful passages thrown into the mix. Read it from cover to cover and you will find as I have that it really can't inform us intelligently on most modern matters

[Bruce R'. Miller]

Yes, these are the same arguments that people were making way back in 1947, just before California ruled that anti-miscegenation laws were unconstitutional. The churches were saying that if blacks were allowed to marry whites then soon the churches would be forced to marry brothers and sisters and pets and farm animals or else they would lose their tax exempt status. Give me a break.

[Reid]

Proposition 8 is a blight on the bright promise California has always represented, and every decent Californian has a moral imperative to continue the fight for equality and freedom. No one of us can ever be truly free so long as any of our neighbors are condemned to live as second-class citizens, deprived of the rights so important to the American experience, simply because they are different from the majority.

Can we overcome bigotry? Yes we can. Can we continue to fight for equality even if this soulless proposition passes? Yes we can. Can we bring California back from its moral abyss? Yes we can.

Prop 8 is wrong, and we will never give up, we will never stop and we will ultimately return California to the ranks of civilized society. Can we persevere for as long as it takes?

Yes we can.

[Diego Bernal]

I would like to make 4 comments here:

1)I am a nearly Orthodox Catholic who has PROUDLY voted NO on Proposition 8 for the following reasons: I am an ARDENT supporter of the constitution and civil rights. It makes no sense to me whatsoever that we would deny civil rights to anyone because of religious reasons. Also, gay people are BORN gay. Therefore, I refuse to believe homosexuality is a sin since I believe God is incapable of error. People say that homosexuality is a sin, I honestly believe it is a test for us religious people to see if we accept all of God's children.
2) I am absolutely appalled that this discriminatory "Jim Crow" like piece of filth legislation could pass in what is supposed to be the most progressive state in a country based on equality for all. Every single one of you that voted Yes should be arrested to attempting to deny someone's civil rights. Its unbelievable to me that you likely call yourselves "American"
3) As for my homosexual brothers and sisters, you will not need to put up with the ignorance much longer. If this passes, all you need to do is take it to the Supreme Court (after Obama assigns his first justice) which will legalize gay marriage across the entire US.
4) All of you that are suggesting that it is comparable to marry a blood-relative or even an animal to marrying someone of the opposite sex had better never use that argument when trying to make your case; you will be laughed at and if I have to explain to you why then you should consider never voting on anything until you find out.

[Steve Friederang]

Look at it this way. Maybe we should have a referendum on renaming an orange a cactus. Or maybe we should never make decisions as to whether something is right or wrong. For example who decided polygamy is wrong? Or that killing someone for money is wrong. Doesn't everyone have the right to make a living?

We have a right to decide that homosexual marriage is not marriage just as we have a right to state that people can't have sex with children or stuff oranges in one another's gas tanks. I know I'm sounding flippant so LET ME ARGUE THE OTHER SIDE for a moment. I think people should be given equal rights under the law and by employers and government. If I get a job and am single (no matter what I do in the bedroom and with whom) I should be able to get the same health insurance coverage for whomever I choose as does a married person with the same experience and education and time with the company. I should be allowed to shop, eat, work wherever anyone else does. The Christian's I know have mad the mistake of making this a Biblical issue of loving the sinner and hating the sin God calls an abomination.

This the definition of marriage is not an issue of "gay" rights. It should be simply an issue of rights. We should not legislate morality, but we have a responsibility to hold ourselves to definitions. Marriage is a legal union between a man and a women. Homosexuals need to call their union something else. But don't get me wrong, all people deserve the same rights and hold the same responsibilities. If a homosexual sashay's into a classroom bragging about the sex he had with his man last night he should be fired just as a heterosexual who bragged about his sex acts should be fired. We don't always have a right to advertise what we do in the bedroom. We do have the right to values and employers, even public employers have a right to uphold those values.

The bottom line is that homosexuals have some reasonable griefs. But that doesn't men they are a race of people to be treated differently by the law. This campaign asked us to equate treatment of homosexuals with racism. Someday someone is going to strive for quotas of gays in the workplace. This is not civilized. That would open the door for people who are insomniacs to lobby for quotas to be allowed into college ahead of those who sleep just fine. Behavior does not constitute race or additional freedom. Just being a member of a group who prefers the company of like sex people or even loves them doesn't give them any more rights to the term "married" or any other legal term than if a group of motorcycle riders or thumb suckers or those who are entranced with stamp collecting might have.

Ok, so you are sexually attracted to someone of the same sex -- and you want to live with that person for the rest of your life. The law doesn't prevent that. It does prevent some other rights I enjoy as a heterosexual and that is wrong. Nut we maintain the right to tell those with male anatomy they need to stay out of the women's restroom and that marriage defines a male-female relationship as it has for thousands of years.

We need to treat each other with respect in and out of the law. My hope is that this issue is resolved by allowing anyone, regardless of whom they love, to have the same rights at the workplace and other areas of society and law. If that's not enough then one group of people is asking for more rights, including the right to take on the legal definition that defines another group. And then that's not fair.

Marriage has been defined throughout time as a union, legal and spiritual, between a man and a woman. A similar expression of permanence and love may be invented to define the relationship between homosexuals, but this word is already taken so homosexuals need a new word.

That seems pretty simple. Just as giving all people the same rights under the law seems simple. I love my son, but I'm not asking for anyone to allow me to marry him. I love my dog, but I'm not asking for any relationship I might have with my dog to be called marriage. I love my friends of both genders, but, even I were to have sex with someone of my gender it's simply not marriage.

We have words to describe relationships for a reason. It's not just Biblical, it's the historical definition of the word and the relationship that I don't want to give up.

I think the thing that bothers most Christians is deeper than the word or the act. It's that they don't like to see the Bible taken away from our culture. But that doesn't give us the right to abrogate any rights -- just to fight for what is ours -- clearly the historical definition of this word to describe a specific relationship we also believe is a covenant that should be protected by law.

So let's fight for equal rights together without portraying one relationship as another. And let's both work toward this in love. Let's find injustice and fight it together and let's find opportunities to improve the state of our world without trampling on one another. Even Christians, whom homosexuals have learned to mistrust (sometimes for the good reason that they forgot God's word to love EVERYONE) have to agree with that.

[bar]

Once again we find people with more money than brains hoping to impose their religion and notions about morality on others. The tragedy is that it looks like this piece of crap will pass. So ironic, on a day when America took a great stride away from discrimination, that Californians choose to constitutionally treat some people as second-class citizens, people who are law-abiding, taxpaying, productive and assets to society. It's a shame. Today I'm proud to be an American but embarassed to be a Californian.

[christina]

Yes on 8!! I am so Glad this is happening!! I am so tired of Gays pushing their agenda everywhere. Do what you want but I dont want to see it in everyshow I watch. I dont think its natural. Homosexuality has not been considered norm like ever, no matter what decade or centurey. It may have been tolerated but over all rejected. You call that hate fine but its what I believe and marriage is sacred and should be taken seriously.

[Heterosexual Mormon]

HAHA. You people actually believe God destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah!!!

[Anthony]

Let us get a few things clear here. To claim that God "said" being gay is against his wishes is just a lie! No where in the Bible do the words of Jesus Christ say anything about homosexuality. The words of man in the Bible do so. Next, there is a famous document that the churches in America need to re-read. It is called the CONSTITUTION. Our constitution clearly states the SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. The only reason to deny gay people the right to marry OTHER GAY PEOPLE is only based on religious views. To then legislate ones religious views in to law is a clear violation of our constitutional rights as Americans whether you like it or not. You want to call yourself a true American, then lets see you stand up for the rights of other that you may not agree with on a personal basis. Next point; Marriage is BOTH a religious ceremony and a LEGAL state contract. You can get married all you want in a church, but until you file that paper in the court, you are not married. The fight here is not over getting married then in a church. The fight is for the same legal right as far as the over 1,000 legal rights afforded to married couples. Next, to claim that same sex marriage will teach children that being gay is acceptable is absurd and it's only basis is that being gay is a choice. Most ALL gay people were born to and raised by STRAIGHT parents. If it were a choice then we have only straight people to blame. Finally, it is even more absurd to continually spout the bile of "sanctimonious nature" of marriage would be harmed if gay people are allowed to marry. Please explain to me then where is the sanctimony of marriage when Britney Spears or any one for that matter can get married to a perfect stranger in Vegas, in front of an Elvis impersonator while drunk???? Wake up America. It is fundamentally wrong for any group to dictate the rights of another group based on personal beliefs. When churches start dictating policy you end up with countries like Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan!! Aren’t we fighting against that kind of government in a war as we speak????? How can we as a country fight for the “rights” of foreign people under such a government and yet at the same time seek amendments to limit the same rights of any group of our own citizens!!!!

[Carl Watkins]

One of the biggest concerns about California's position on gay marriage is its effect on public health. We must realize that statistically the life expectancy of the average homosexual male is only 42 years, and for the average homosexual female, only 44 years. Homosexuality is a bigger threat to human life than smoking, drinking, or cancer! We spend millions of dollars discouraging smoking, yet others spend millions of dollars promoting a lifestyle which is an even greater threat to health - homosexuality - saying that it is normal and healthy. What hypocrisy! If proposition 8 fails, because of court mandates, California essentually endorses one of the most unhealthy practices known to mankind. Our laws should be adopted to protect us from such vices, not encourage them!

[Tomoyo]

There is only one question I can think of for those who supported Proposition 8:

Seriously, why do you care?

There is never any argument in your favor other than, "Because it says so in the Bible." If we're going to write laws based on the relevant portions of the Bible, then we ought to have a law prohibiting children from taking smack about their parents under penalty of death. The penalty for adultery should be stoning, and while I can't quite remember the details about the one involving tying up a woman and sending her fifty yards out of camp to see if she gets a spot on her thigh (or something to that effect), let's stick that one into our Constitution as well. From now on, medicine will be replaced by a gold snake on a stick, and anyone who works on Sunday will not live to see Monday.

There are some things in the Bible that seem to float out the window because they "do not pertain" to a modern, civilized society. Funny how there are other, equally wacky things that you refuse to forget so easily. I suppose the distinction must be the "ick" factor. Either that or you all think your children are somehow more special than those of the ancient Israelites.

Proposition 8 is a gesture whose implications may outlast the people who voted for it, but it will not outlast their children. You are not protecting them from anything; thanks to this whole fiasco, no one has to teach your kids about gay marriage because it's been rubbed in their faces over the last few weeks like a big, spit-covered palm. Ponder the ultimate futility of this gesture, and I'll thank you to cease dropping religious turds on public property.

[david]

if marriage was not to be defined as a union between a man and a woman then i wonder if marriage could be defined as a union between a man/ a woman and an animal... (ex: like a dog or a cat). How does the homosexual community define their marriage anyways? Humans are part of the animal kingdom so bestiality in terms of marriage isn't really a question of ignorance is it? If marriage weren't to have set of absolute definition then somewhere on the line i'm afraid bestiality too will have its own "right" to be included in the category of marriage...

[Michael B]

I like what you say, Alex (2 posts up)

"...please get a clue and stay in your church, i dont tell you what to do, you shouldn't tell others what to do."

Hey, wait...are you sure you're not telling church people what to do?

"...please get a clue and stay in your church."

[hmw]

I can't believe it-- i can't believe this is passing-- I thought we were a more progressive state than that-- I just can't believe this violation. It's basic civil and human rights. I'm so sorry for this ignorance-- I wish I'd done more to oppose, I thought it was in the bag.

Not all of us are biggoted hate mongers.

So sorry guys.

-27 year old straight white female

[Wonderwhy]

I guess I am just wondering why someone wouldn't vote YES on 8? Does it violate the rights of same-sex couples? Does it make it impossible to live and love as a homosexual couple? I am for equal rights for all people and couples but I believe that marriage is between man and woman! As a gay man, I have no desire to adopt a heterosexual tradition just to "feel" like I am "normal." I can love and live happily with the man I love while fighting for equal rights without trying to infringe on a spiritual tradition. We can even go buy a ring and plan a wedding! I just don't get why the focus of our fight has to be on definitions when their are bigger fish to fry! I also HATE that attempt to connect gay rights movements with other civil rights moevements! Trying to get the right to be called married to your lesbian partner is not the same is trying to make it illegal for a police department to hose you in the face, hang your ancestors, and put your couisn in jail because hes a colored boy!

[Tom]

Propositon 8 adds Section 7.5 to the California State Constitution:

"7.5 Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."

California recognizes and provides rights for same sex committed relationships which are called domestic partners in California Family Code Section 297-297.5. There has been some confusion about domestic partners. The actual text of California Family Code Section 297-297.5 is provided below:

"297.
(a) Domestic partners are two adults who have chosen to share one another's lives in an intimate and committed relationship of mutual caring.
(b) A domestic partnership shall be established in California when both persons file a Declaration of Domestic Partnership with the Secretary of State pursuant to this division, and, at the time of filing, all of the following requirements are met:
(1) Both persons have a common residence.
(2) Neither person is married to someone else or is a member of another domestic partnership with someone else that has not been terminated, dissolved, or adjudged a nullity.
(3) The two persons are not related by blood in a way that would prevent them from being married to each other in this state.
(4) Both persons are at least 18 years of age.
(5) Either of the following:
(A) Both persons are members of the same sex.
(B) One or both of the persons meet the eligibility criteria underTitle II of the Social Security Act as defined in 42 U.S.C. Section 402(a) for old-age insurance benefits or Title XVI of the Social Security Act as defined in 42 U.S.C. Section 1381 for aged individuals. Notwithstanding any other provision of this section,
persons of opposite sexes may not constitute a domestic partnership unless one or both of the persons are over the age of 62.
(6) Both persons are capable of consenting to the domestic partnership.
(c) "Have a common residence" means that both domestic partners share the same residence. It is not necessary that the legal right to possess the common residence be in both of their names. Two
people have a common residence even if one or both have additional residences. Domestic partners do not cease to have a common residence if one leaves the common residence but intends to return.

297.5.
(a) Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources
of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.
(b) Former registered domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they
derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources of law, as are granted to and imposed upon former spouses.
(c) A surviving registered domestic partner, following the death of the other partner, shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources of law, as are granted to and imposed upon a widow or a widower.
(d) The rights and obligations of registered domestic partners with respect to a child of either of them shall be the same as those of spouses. The rights and obligations of former or surviving registered domestic partners with respect to a child of either of them shall be the same as those of former or surviving spouses.
(e) To the extent that provisions of California law adopt, refer to, or rely upon, provisions of federal law in a way that otherwise would cause registered domestic partners to be treated differently than spouses, registered domestic partners shall be treated by California law as if federal law recognized a domestic partnership in the same manner as California law.
(f) Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights regarding nondiscrimination as those provided to spouses.
(g) No public agency in this state may discriminate against any person or couple on the ground that the person is a registered domestic partner rather than a spouse or that the couple are registered domestic partners rather than spouses, except that nothing in this section applies to modify eligibility for long-term care
plans pursuant to Chapter 15 (commencing with Section 21660) of Part 3 of Division 5 of Title 2 of the Government Code.
(h) This act does not preclude any state or local agency from exercising its regulatory authority to implement statutes providing rights to, or imposing responsibilities upon, domestic partners.
(i) This section does not amend or modify any provision of the California Constitution or any provision of any statute that was adopted by initiative.
(j) Where necessary to implement the rights of registered domestic partners under this act, gender-specific terms referring to spouses shall be construed to include domestic partners.
(k) (1) For purposes of the statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, and any other provision or source of law governing the rights, protections, and benefits, and the responsibilities, obligations, and duties of registered domestic partners in this state, as effectuated by this section, with respect to community property, mutual responsibility for debts to third parties, the right in particular circumstances of either partner to seek financial support from the other following the dissolution of the partnership, and other rights and duties as between the partners concerning ownership of property, any reference to the date of a marriage shall be deemed to refer to the date of registration of a domestic partnership with the state.
(2) Notwithstanding paragraph (1), for domestic partnerships registered with the state before January 1, 2005, an agreement between the domestic partners that the partners intend to be governed by the requirements set forth in Sections 1600 to 1620, inclusive, and which complies with those sections, except for the agreement's effective date, shall be enforceable as provided by Sections 1600 to 1620, inclusive, if that agreement was fully executed and in force as of June 30, 2005."

[Xavier]

For you Christians and Jews out there who voted No on Prop 8,
"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. " -Leviticus 18:22.

GOD says no. not too hard to understand that in marriage you share one bed. therefore, you voted to legalize sodomy. you go against GOD, you go against all that is GOoD.

if you knew GOD, you would know that the most satisfying life is lived by not violating His basic moral principles.

[Laura]

If Jesus were alive he would have voted No on Prop 8 because Jesus and the GOD are all about free will and choice.

For all those trying to force your religion and your opinion on other people, read the damn new testament or stop calling yourselves Christians-God is not about judging unless you're a strict old testament believer, in which case once again, stop calling yourself a Christian.

Judge not lest ye be judged, sound familiar, when you stand before God, he is going to know whether you judged people in your heart or on your ballot.

[Naulon]

Homosexuality is a conditioned sexual addiction. It's a perversion of how sexual development should take place. It doesn't happen naturally; it happens by gays introducing young children to the perversion. It's immoral. Allowing gays to marry sanctions the perverted behavior and gives impetus to the spread of the perversion to other innocent children. Homosexuality then destroys their lives. Homosexuality should be defined a psychological disorder as it was 50 years ago and treated as such.

[Dustin]

You say God loves you because you treat all people equally. Wrong. God would love you no matter what you do, even if you killed someone. Someone else said that there are no set morals, and that morals are just personal beliefs. There are morals. Who are we to punish murderers if to them murder is okay and normal? There are things that are inherently wrong and right. What you liberals call "progress" is actually moral decline. It's important that we as a nation maintain the highest standard of morals as possible. We are all free to believe what we want to believe. I believe marriage is only between a man and a woman. I have the RIGHT to believe that and vote that way. For those who don't believe this affects others, just look at Massachusetts. There's now books in schools teaching guys how to masturbate other males and how to perform oral sex on another guy. It is my RIGHT to decide that that is innappropriate, and that I don't want anything even remotely close to that entering my children's school.

[JQ]

I vote yes on Prop 8. Gay marriage doesn't bother me first of all. But the fact that gays are wanting to force change on Christian values just to accomodate them, is not right at all. If they want to get married, they should just have a civil union. Don't ask a church to bend their values just so they can have a nice church wedding. And as for children, the discussion on being gay should be between them and their parents, peers, etc. But not at school. Marriage shouldn't even be a topic at school. And whatever happened to separation of church and government? If this prop doesn't pass, that's just another way the government can control the church. We already took religion and prayer out of school. Yes, church is separate from government, but is government really separate from church. If so, prop 8 should pass.

[Dustin]

Everyone needs to read the constitution. I promise you you will not find anything in there about separation of church and state. What is says is that there shall be no state church, meaning the state cannot force us to be a certain religion. But this country was founded upon Christianity, hence "In God We Trust", and "One Nation Under God." Don't confuse "progress" with moral decline. People somehow fail to see the connection between the prevalence of pornography, the permissiveness of immorality, violence, and homosexuality in the media (TV, Internet, etc.), and the growing evil in the world. I don't deny that SOME people are born with homosexual tendencies. You can argue that that is how God made them. But some people are born with a short temper, that does not justify anger and acts of violence. I was born with heterosexual tendencies, but that doesn't mean that everything that could be considered heterosexual is acceptable (incest, rape, pornography). We are all born with different tendencies and weaknesses. We have to learn to deal with them and overcome them.

[Argggh]

If Proposition 8 passes, what a heartbreaking setback it will be for equal rights. Still, it's progress. In eight years, we've gone from a huge majority in favor of banning gay marriage to a bare majority. And with young people supporting gay marriage more than older people, it's only a matter of time.

I can't help but think that more courage--or any courage--on the part of Democratic leaders would have helped the cause. I only heard Dianne Feinstein in radio ads against Prop 8, and even that was kind of lukewarm. Where are the elected leaders on this? Stop playing it safe--it's time to lead already.

As for the exit poll numbers, if they're accurate, how ironic would it be that the same night that we make history by electing a person of color to the White House, some of the new voters that came out for him may have provided the margin that sank another civil rights measure?

[Daniel]

Marriage existed long before Christianity came about. You Christians who think it's your personal ceremony for your particular religion are dead wrong. Look it up people. It's impossible for your children to become corrupted by gay marriage unless the intolerance is instilled in them by their parents. Your God didn't invent marriage. This is A-M-E-R-I-C-A. You can't give the moral majority the right to vote on the rights of the minority. You can NOT enforce your particular morality upon any other person. Go ahead. Try to deny another person the right to do something you can do. But prepare for a long battle which you will lose. It's what's going to happen. You can either deal with it and become enlightened, or shut it out and remain in the Dark Ages. Prepare for war, Religious Right, because the enlightened and peace-minded, not the God-Fearing Hypocrites, will eventually overcome.

[Jamie]

Funny that most over 65 voted for the proposition while those 18-29 mostly voted against it. The younger group are at stages of their lives where they're much more likely to marry, so it seems those over 65 are dictating matters in other people's lives that shouldn't involve them.

[dt]

Let's ban the consumption of cows because it is a sin to eat beef to Hindus. Or how about banning the consumption of pork. Since eating pork is sinful to orthodox jews and muslims. Don't we want to protect the sanctity of the cow? Where will we stop when we start writing religion into law? Just because we are a democracy does not mean that the majority is always right. The majority was not right when we endorse slavery, prevented minorities & women from voting, or institutionalize racism with the separate but equal crap. It is unfortunate that eventhough America has moved so far with the election of Obama, Californians may be stuck in America's prejudicial past.

[Equality]

Learn to read your Bible in its original languages -- Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. Also educate yourselves on the context of the time period in which such words were written. The Bible tells quite a different story than you've been taught through all the mistranslations. Only then will you truly understand God's message of LOVE.

As for children being taught about gay people in secular schools, that is a deliberate, fear-mongering lie. ALL parents may opt their children out of any class they wish to, and that will not change. When a "Christian" group must lie in order to push its agenda, you must seriously question the morality of their argument.

Anyway, I am all for children learning about the world they live in. Had I not been taught IN SCHOOL that black people and Jews and other minorities were just like me, I would have grown up to be a hateful bigot like the rest of my family. Sometimes school is the only place children can learn not to hate.

I grew up in a Christian (and bigoted) traditional nuclear family, was never exposed a day in my childhood to gay people (that I know of), and somehow, though I am female, my first crush at five years old was on a girl. My attraction has ALWAYS been towards my own sex. I was not molested, and I love men. There is no predictor in my past that would have pointed me in this direction. I don't know why ANYone would CHOOSE to live a life where being yourself means you'll be hated.

I've been with my partner 12 years. When we held our commitment ceremony ten years ago, I never even thought about the fact that it wasn't "legal". But there are about 1400 state and federal rights automatically granted to married couples that I was barred from enjoying. When California legalized gay marriage, that granted about 400 state rights to married gay couples, but some 1000 federal rights are still inaccessible. This is strictly a CIVIL issue -- I would be perfectly happy if the U.S. called ALL marriages 'civil unions' and let the religiously inclined people solemnize their vows in a church, synagogue, etc. I would also be perfectly happy if the U.S. removed ALL rights granted to couples through marriage, so long as it applies to all people equally. But Proposition 8 is designed to deliberately write DISCRIMINATION into the California constitution. "Separate but equal" is NOT equal. It is unconstitutional.

If Prop 8 passes, I feel confident that it will be overturned eventually, probably by judges like those who legalized gay marriage in the first place. You can't keep conflicting ideals/laws in the same constitution. One is wrong. Some will complain that the law is "shoved down their throats", but many felt the same when slavery was abolished, and women got the vote, and when anti-miscegenation laws were overturned. Sometimes a law NEEDS to be rammed down the throats of people who refuse to acknowledge the intent of the writers of their own constitution.

Last thing - please stop with the slippery slope nonsense. Prop 8 is about whether or not to eliminate gays' right to marry -- nothing else.

[Lopunny]

You have failed me, California.

[Not_LosAngelian]

People in favour of the proposition are either are engaging in rather weak forms of argument to rationalise what are nothing more than irrational fears and prejudices.

Some have said that this is an affront to their religious freedom. It isn't. Someone mentioned the "pilgrims", but seem to be a bit confused about why they left England. They left England for religious freedom; the Anglican Church in the 1600s had a lot of power and tried to deny the rights of dissenters to practise their religion as they saw fit. And as the Church and State were effectively won, the power of the state backed up the Anglicans.

The USA was founded on the principle of a separation of State and Religion. Voting against proposition 8 doesn't affect that - Gay Marriage doesn't affect that. The state is giving gay and lesbian couples rights, but it will be upto the individual churches whether they wish to perform religious weddings. They can still teach they think it is wrong. And parents can still teach their children they think its wrong. I'm sure many supporters of marriage consider such views morally reprehensible, but they aren't trying to stamp on rights.

Voting for proposition 8 is actually an affront to the values America stands for - its about imposing the views of the religious on the non religious. Its about giving the churches power over the state which is not what the founding fathers wanted. They wanted separation. Of course people's religion affects their morals which affects their views on such issues - but your freedom is to hold these views not to impose them upon others. Gay marriage will not affect you or your family; you can turn the other cheek. Its very difficult for gay or lesbian people to do so when denied such a basic right.

Its also a really poor argument to say "gay marriage.. what next? Bestiality? Incest?". I'm sure similar things were said when Inter-racial marriages were first allowed, or when people were allowed to divorce and re-marry. But we don't yet have such things do we. Bestiality is fundamentally different as the animal cannot give consent - and the same with under-age marriages. Forbidding intra-family marriages is ultimately due to biology: the probability of deformities means we tend not to be attracted to close family members. But its also likely that such marriages would be the result of the abuse of power so again a case can be made to forbid it. These cases are hence fundamentally different to gay marriage where its about two freely consenting adults, the union of which would not harm anyone.

I hope most of you can understand this as a lot of the posters seem barely literate, to put it bluntly.

[Dave Dixon]

Give us numbers LA Times!! Let us descipher them ourselves! We can handle it, and you can let use think! Love to learn something ourselves from you.

[jason]

Marriage between a man and a woman doesn't mean anything anymore when greater than 50% of amrriages end in the first 7 years. I say if the gay /lesbian couples want the misert of divorce why not let them. Marriage is a contract enforced my the State it is only preformed in your church. God should be left out of Politics.

[Matt]

In response to saturniscapri comment: 'What gives gays and lesbians the right to come in and force their ways onto something that is sacred UNDER THE LORD' ...
What gives RELIGION the right, to slap their rules and regulations on marriage?! Do you think Christianity invented marriage?! That before Christianity came about, in what, 200ad, marriage didnt exist?! Ofcouse it did! Marriage goes back to Greek times, who as it happens, allowed same sex marriage.
Just because Christiany came along, and put one some of their own (man made) rules on it, what gives them the right to say who anyone enters a lifelong bond with.
Prehaps under you're intereptation of the bible God doesn't recognise same sex marriage, that's fine for you to believe quietly and ultimately that's up for God to decide, not you or anyone else.

[hadrian]

In almost every case where someone is supporting this crap, they are citing some crazy christian reason or some vengeful God with the same rules that screwed up the middle east so bad.

I definitely think we should vote on Christian's civil rights, especially as they are the ones wanting to curtail everyone else's.

The evangelicals seem to not understand that separation of church and state protects us all. Yes, it is about time they learn that.

I'm a heterosexual who supports all love and commitment. I'm also pagan though, and I'm about ready to toss some of them to the lions.

[Nodtveidt]

This is kind of disturbing. The election of Barack Obama showed that we as a nation have taken a step in the right direction...yet the results thus far on Prop 8, and all the negative comments here, have shown that we still have many, many more steps to take. The religious views of one group of people have no right to dictate the rights of another group of people. Gay marriage is never going to hurt your pre-existing traditional marriage, and I challenge anyone here to prove otherwise.

[Lina]

well.... now the HUMAN being I love and want to spend my life with CANNOT be recognized by the state of CA ....

DOMESTIC PARTNERSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WE NEED SAME RIGHTS AS MARRIAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cece]

10 REASONS GAY MARRIAGE IS WRONG:

1) Being gay is not natural.

- And real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester,
air conditioning, tattoos, piercings and silicone breasts.

....

2) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay.

- In the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

3) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior.

- People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract. Lamps are next.

4) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all.

- Hence why women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

5) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed;
- And we can't let the sanctity of Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage be destroyed.

6) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children.

- So therefore, gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our population isn't out of control, our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

7) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children,
- Since, of course, straight parents only raise straight children?

Gay marriage is not supported by religion.

- In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

9) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home.

- Which is exactly why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms.

- Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.