Proposition 8 exit poll: Whites oppose, blacks support, Latinos divided

Californians went to the polls today on the divisive and deeply emotional issue of same-sex marriage, with early exit poll data showing the state's voters closely divided along lines of religion and political affiliation.

With the polls still open, it is too early to project the outcome, which would amend the California Constitution to ban gay marriage. But preliminary data showed that Democrats and independents were tending to vote against Proposition 8, while Republicans were in favor of the measure.

The proposition was trailing among white voters, but was ahead among black voters. Latino voters were closely divided.

People who said they attended religious services weekly were overwhelmingly voting for the measure, while those who said that they occasionally or never went to religious services were voting no.

Voters older than 65 voted mostly for the proposition, while those in the 18-29 range voted against it.

Read more on the article here.

--Jessica Garrison and Cara Mia DiMassa

Comments

[Jim]

Jared, try reading ALL of Romans (and preferably the entire New Testament) before concluding that St. Paul would have wanted the government to define marriage for all religions. The letter is about much, much more than a one-sentence statement of an ancient prejudice from a man who never actually met Jesus, and is actually much more a cry against government-defined belief systems.

I'm far more interested in what Jesus, who was not fallible like his followers, had to say about homosexuality. Sadly, no one ever quotes HIM on the subject. Oh, yeah, that's because he preached love and inclusion, and never once spoke out against homosexuality.

[Jared O'Connor]

I'm so glad prop. 8 passed!!!!!!!!!! Marriage is between a man and a woman ONLY. Some people here say that God loves gays. God does, BUT he wants them to change from their wicked ways. Look up romans 1.
Romans 1:26-27 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

[Gary Gregory gpower2llc]

Everyone keeps saying that they will not teach this in schools, but what about sex education class, if this get voted down, what are they going to teach my children in sex education. I feel as a parent, it is my responsibility and right to inform my children, not the state. Besides, voters have voted down this initiative twice now, and instead of admitting defeat, you take to the streets and use harassment, and try to strong arm people to see it your way. The beauty of living in America is that everyone has the right to freedom of speech and has a constitutional right to their own opinion. Because someone believes in morality and a higher being, and in the bible it clearly states that a marriage is between a man and a woman, does not mean that that person is wrong. Not everyone needs to see the world through your eyes, and because they don't believe in gay marriage you cannot equate that to hate. That is just simply ridiculous.

[OrchidIslander]

Nice lead in to this article! Whites oppose it, blacks support it. Let's see, blacks make up 6.7% of California's population, while whites are closer to 70%. Not exactly comparing apples to apples. No wonder white gays have been dropping the "N" bomb so easily.

[anna]

"raised in CA"...YOU GO!!! and "huh?"...YES! I WOULD!! 1000% YES!

[Candice]

And to all those people talking about a child should have both a mother and a father, cause it's psychologically damaging, then I say single parents shouldn't be aloud to parent either. You are all retarded. I can't believe they still make people like you. It's 2008. I get so frustrated with blind ignorance and hate. I think all you morons are a waste of space.

[Candice]

Screw you all who say it's unnatural, that it's tradition. Since the beginning of time!?! You are all idiots!

Since the beginning of time there have been homosexuals. King's who have rewritten the bible l like King James. In fact, a lot of men chose to marry only to bear children. If they had sperm banks back then, marriage would probably always would have existed.

Even if it was "tradition", that's not a good thing. It's tradition in a lot of countries for women to be second only to their husband.

It was tradition for centuries to own slaves. To only marry in your own race.

That was always one of the best things about America, maybe not always first, but we always grow up, get brighter, and realize our stupidity and bigotry. Why are there so many people left that breed hate and fear?

[adele_H]

This article isn't accurate. I did my own survey before deciding (I also foreseen this happening 2 yrs ago). Everything this article said was the opposite w/ my experience. All the minority youths that I know & ones I asked between ages 16 to 25 said they don't want gay marriages in their society nor for their children. None attend church. True enough, Blacks, Latinos voted YES bute so did alot of Asians, and we have alot. I am 50/F, Polynesian born in S.F raised in Hawaii & the Bay Area. I attend services maybe 3 x's a year. A female cousin on the Chinese side of my family is gay. My uncle on the Hawaiian side who was the last of the ancient Hawaiian dancers (who is dead and in our history books) was str8 gay. My good friends on the islands are gay, transgender & sex changes. Hawaii is known for that & most were models when we were in our youth. Later I became an HIV counselor in the Bay Area. I'm now a Youth Counselor also, but work w/ minorities. I voted Yes b/c this is going to be their world, the youths. I lived my life to the fullest already, and everybody did fine w/ male/female marriages ONLY. Not all gays want marriage. I asked many. This is why I can't see it as the ultimate sin anymore. There are alot of spiritual 'minority' gays who adore God & don't dare break his commandments. Some said they were married to God, others say they don't want to be pushed into marriage by any partner & living 2gether is fine. But much older gays (in Sf) that I worked w/ demand their rights in marriage & said it's only fair. Majority were Caucasian. 2 yrs ago after my only teen son was murdered & I kept praying for spiritual knowledge & to understand, my son popped into my dream out of nowhere & pointed towards the sky. I seen a huge glorious church & I was like an ant. It was on fire & in the long window of the steeple I could see ppl struggling to get out. I turned to my son to tell him we have to pray for God to save the ppl, but he was gone. I ran close to the church & dropped on my knees & started praying. The bottom half of the chuch was covered in black smoke but all of a sudden doors burst open & I could see ppl pouring out. I looked around to see anyone I knew but what shocked me was that it was all white ppl. They were all around me like giants but not one cared that the church was burning. They were all laughing & going about their way. I seen gay men, men in suits, women & I felt pain in my heart. When I woke up I was crying & could still feel the pain in my heart. A week later I seen the first man who ran out in court. It was like deja vu. He was a racist D.A & when I went to talk to him, I seen the disregard for God in his eyes. Gave me the creeps. My son & I always had spiritual dreams that came true. he seen his own death & exactly how it was going to happen. The media covered it.

--> The point is a female's body was created to sexually interact w/ a male, not male on male, etc. The constitution is an order of supreme law based on the instructions from the supreme-being of our universe. Laws, governing, & taxes all originated from the laws of God, which he designed to maintain order & structure thru out the land & time <--

[Andrew]

"The California Supreme Court understands how important it is to lift these people up, and confirm and celebrate their quest for 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.'"

Im sorry, but thats not the courts job. The Court decides each case on a legal basis, not on whether any one group should be given special treatment based on past experience. For example, if the Courts look this approach, why whould they not give the Irish reparations for treatment when we immigrated here in the 19th Century? Why not give special treatment outside the law for the century of Oppression doled out to blacks? Gay and lesbians are people with certain rights available to all citizens. To be singled out for special treatment is negating in effect their citizenship because it would make them different from the average Joe (the Plumber). Legal basis is on Prop 8's side, even if a humanitarian decision is available. Sorry folks, this is not a battle for the courts, but the court of public opinion.

[Latasha]

I'm apalled and angry. I have read about 100 of the comments on here, and feel the need to address a repeated statement that's been made on this blog that I find extremely disturbing.
First and foremost, why are people - gay or straight - comparing the Prop 8 on gays to that of being African-American? Making such a comparison is offensive!
As a heterosexual, 34 year old African-American woman, let me get something straight. I find it not only insulting, but also humiliating, that there are people comparing the discrimination of gay people, and the discrimination that has oppressed African-Americans for over 300 years. There is no comparison.
Being gay is a choice based on gender.
Being African-American is by nature; a race of beautiful people, created by God, whose skin pigmentation happens to be of color.
Being gay is not of God nor created by Him; in fact, it's not natural at all.
The discrimination against African-Americans is based solely from someone's judgment of another persons' skin color, stereotype, economic class - which has been inflicted on us by society. African-Americans were stolen from home land (Africa), brought to another country against their will, forced to do hard manual labor without compensation, sold on auction blocks, separated from families adn Black women were raped - all an infliction by society. The discriminated against African-Americans was a systematic development to mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually break us down as human beings. As a race of people, African-Americans were belittled, ignored, disgraced, disrespected and refused of our rights and freedom - none of which had to do with our sexual orientation. It was among those reasons and others, in regards to the mistreatment of African-Americans, that led Thomas Jefferson to write the Declaration of Independence. It has also been written and researched that there were Black people during Biblical years, and written in the Holy Book, also known as, the Bible.

However, gay people were not forced to be gay. No one put a gun to your head to make you that way. Gay people say that being gay is normal. Well, if it is as normal as you say, then why aren't the rights for gays specifically stated in the US Constitution? If being gay is normal, then why can't two women or two men in a physical relationship conceive a child naturally like that of heterosexual couples? If being gay is so normal, then why isn't it written in the Bible?

It is absurd and un-natural for a man and man and a woman and a woman to be in any type of relationship - other than friendship. The mere consideration of giving gay people the "right" to marry when they choose, and are not forced, to adopt that type of life style is a slap in the face to God. It is in His will for a man and a woman to come together - as opposites - to bless us with the gift of creating life in that of a child.

Gay people cannot create a life. Gay people are not normal. Therefore, they should not be given the right to marry as if they are.

[Huh?]

What is it with the sibling marriage obsession, "Yes on 8" posters?

Don't you understand the dangers of consanguinity and the autosomal recessive genetic diseases that would affect the offspring of such unions? That has nothing to do with two non-related adults trying to merge their finances, take care of their kids in a stable union, leave inheritances and social security benefits to their beloved.

People, you also don't undersand that civil unions are only recognized at a state level. That means no joint filing of federal taxes. That means no social security benefits to our partners if we pass away. That means estate taxes on our inheritances because only spouses or children are considered legal heirs without such penalties.

We just want those basic benefits as community members, as taxpayers, as workers who earned every penny of our social security benefits just like any straight person. People, this is about economics. This is about civil rights.

Stop with the ignorance, face the fact that you are scared of change and you simply aren't empathetic enough to consider what it would be like if you were gay? If your sister/brother/child were gay? Do you think that you would feel the same way?

[Layne]

I do believe it is possible to hold conservative views while at the same time not interfere with the rights of other people at the same time. Discrimination is a sad thing so is the results of this proposition.

[Raised in CA]

First, I appreciate all the folks that have essentially stated that they are upset that the "evil" religious empire won. And that those whose opinion is "more" right will go to the Supreme Court (whom we all know that one man knows better than the whole majority) and sue to have their way... just like they did a few years ago.

Let's go ahead and trample our right to vote and democracy. Oh by the way, the right to vote in the United State is older than ANY right that we have been given in the Constitution. Let the Judge decide...that's what I want. Who cares about my right to vote.

You know, I didn't vote for Barack Obama. I was disappointed. But, I respect the vote of the majority who stated that is their choice for president. Serving in the military, I would FIGHT to ensure that Barack Obama's orders to me as Commander in Chief to FIGHT. I may not agree with him, but he's my boss. But I"m not going to the Supreme Court to sue to get my way. The Majority of Americans voted for him. And so spoke the Majority of Californians, not just Mormons, Catholics, Blacks, Jews...they were Californians. Respect that.

So, the fact that people are happy that Barack Obama won (oh, he doesn't support gay marriage either) and upset that Prop 8 won would like to have their cake and eat it too. They are celebrating and tearing down the democratic process in the same breath. Why?

So don't bring down the Christians, the Blacks, the Mormons, and whomever you don't agree with and tell them that they are Nazis and bigots and haters and any other name that you can think of. Because as much as the "No on 8" movement tried (oh.. and that campaign spent MORE than the Yes on 8) you still couldn't convince the majority of Californians that it is RIGHT to have a gay marriage. And laws are created by the people. And people make laws by what they determine to be right or wrong. Obviously, the people has spoken. LIve with it or denounce your citizenship and go elsewhere.

[mike schliky]

prop 8 should be thrown out based on the separation of church and state. plain and simple. When are these "religous" and "family values people going to realize the hatred in their hearts. Jesus himself would sanctify gay marriage. He was a nice liberal fellow you know!

[A Transsexual Male]

I am a Transman from SF. And I support Prop 8 the ban on Gay Marriage. I identify as a Heterosexual male. I have many Gay friends, but believe that marriage is sacred and should be a union only between a man and a woman. I voted Yes on Prop 8.
My friends keep bugging me to attend rallies and marches and to hold up signs. I won't do it. I'm not conservative either.
Gay's have Domestic Partnership which gives the couples the same rights as a married heterosexual couple. I would be in support of Gay Marriage if there were a requirement such as 5 years in a relationship. Many of the Gay marriages I have witnessed have ended within months. This is a mockery in my opinion. And this is my reason for supporting the inclusion of the amendment. I can legally marry a woman, but would do so only after an adequate engagement. So 5 years in a Domestic Partnership as a qualifier and perhaps I would support Gay Marriage.

[Helen]

Neal,

When you say that the Mormon Church could have spent its money better on feeding the homeless, well, I am sure the Church agrees with you, because it did not fund prop 8 -- and it continues to devote vast amounts of money to humanitarian services around the world. Individual members, however, did fund prop 8 with their own funds. Some members funded the opposition.

[Helen]

There are a lot of comments here pointing out the hypocrisy of Blacks and Mormons voting for Prop 8 when they have faced so much discrimination themselves. Good point. Since that is the case, maybe we should consider that Prop 8 was NOT about discrimination. Maybe it was about something else -- like protecting religious liberty from people who sue churches that don't condone their lifestyle. Just a thought.

[dana]

I find it ironic that a population that has a 70% out of wedlock birth rate votes that other people who actually want to get married can't. Blacks have decided that that they need someone to be better than. Most Blacks voted yesterday and the overwhelming number of them think that they are the only ones who have ever been discriminated against.

[esquire415]

The U.S. Constitution is a secular document. It begins, "We the people," and contains no mention of "God" or "Christianity." Its only references to religion are exclusionary, such as, "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust" (Art. VI), and "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" (First Amendment). The presidential oath of office, the only oath detailed in the Constitution, does not contain the phrase "so help me God" or any requirement to swear on a bible (Art. II, Sec. 1, Clause 8). If we are a Christian nation, why doesn't our Constitution say so?

In 1797 America made a treaty with Tripoli, declaring that "the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." This reassurance to Islam was written under Washington's presidency, and approved by the Senate under John Adams.

The framers of our Constitution in 1787 wanted no part of religious intolerance and bloodshed, wisely establishing the first government in history to separate church and state. Personal religious views are just that: personal. Our government has no right to promulgate religion or to interfere with private beliefs.

The separation of church and state is a wonderful American principle supported not only by minorities, such as Jews, Moslems, and unbelievers, but applauded by most Protestant churches that recognize that it has allowed religion to flourish in this nation. It keeps the majority from pressuring the minority.

America is one nation under a Constitution. Although the Constitution sets up a representative democracy, it specifically was amended with the Bill of Rights in 1791 to uphold individual and minority rights. On constitutional matters we do not have majority rule. For example, when the majority in certain localities voted to segregate blacks, this was declared illegal. The majority has no right to tyrannize the minority on matters such as race, gender, religion, or in this case, sexual orientation.

Not only is it unAmerican for the government to promote religion, it is rude. Whenever a public official uses the office to advance religion, someone is offended. The wisest policy is one of neutrality. Our government represents all of the people, supported by dollars from a plurality of religious and non-religious taxpayers.

Under the "due process" clause of the 14th Amendment (ratified in 1868), the entire Bill of Rights applies to the states. No governor, mayor, sheriff, public school employee, or other public official may violate the human rights embodied in the Constitution. The government at all levels must respect the separation of church and state. Most state constitutions, in fact, contain language that is even stricter than the First Amendment, prohibiting the state from setting up a ministry, using tax dollars to promote religion, or interfering with freedom of conscience.

The words, "under God," did not appear in the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954, when Congress, under McCarthyism, inserted them. Likewise, "In God We Trust" was absent from paper currency before 1956. It appeared on some coins earlier, as did other sundry phrases, such as "Mind Your Business." The original U.S. motto, chosen by John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson, is E Pluribus Unum ("Of Many, One"), celebrating plurality, not theocracy.

The first four Commandments are religious edicts having nothing to do with law or ethical behavior. Only three (homicide, theft, and perjury) are relevant to current American law, and have existed in cultures long before Moses. If Americans honored the commandment against "coveting," free enterprise would collapse! The Supreme Court has ruled that posting the Ten Commandments in public schools is unconstitutional.

Our secular laws, based on the human principle of "justice for all," provide protection against crimes, and our civil government enforces them through a secular criminal justice system.

Ignoring history, law, and fairness, many fanatics are working vigorously to turn America into a Christian nation. Fundamentalist Protestants and right-wing Catholics would impose their narrow morality on the rest of us, resisting women's rights, freedom for religious minorities and unbelievers, gay and lesbian rights, and civil rights for all. History shows us that only harm comes of uniting church and state.

America has never been a Christian nation. We are a free nation. Anne Gaylor, president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, points out: "There can be no religious freedom without the freedom to dissent."

[Equality4All]

I can't believe some posters here still living in the Old Testament. Jesus preached love, forgiveness, and acceptance. If you are truly a Christian, then be like Jesus. Follow the 4 Gospels and nothing else. Also, just believing God and going to Church does not make you a Christian. People are saying it's unnatural, well animals mate with their siblings and with their parents and offsprings, that's natural right? So you mean to say incest is ok (lots of it in the Bible)? Your logic does not hold. BTW, it has been proven that there is homosexuality in the animal kingdom.

How does this affect heterosexual couples? Will straight men and women suddenly feel compelled to marry someone of the same sex? Who has the right to 'define' marriage? Your God? Your bible? Millions of Americans don't accept this arbitrary, religious definition. The inherent religious prejudice of the many is not a valid reason to deny a basic human right to the few. It is utter discrimination and in violation of a basic human right.

It's not up to someone's religion to define marriage for the rest of us, and your arguement that defining marriage in a way other than the definition that you have chosen to assign it will somehow be damaging to society is faulty because not everyone subscribes to your limited definition of marriage. And do you have any evidence to back up your claim that allowing gays to marry will, in fact, have the effects you claim it will?

Let's say my religion is against inter-racial marriage. So I would impose this on people who do not share my belief because I think it will affect me even though there is no evidence that it will. They are the minority so I don't care if it affects their lives as long as it doesn't affect mine. I can dictate how others should live their lives because I think my lifestyle and religion is better than theirs. Nice!

[Anya]

I suppose those who supported prop 8 still don't get the whole SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE thing.

[Jim]

Christians are free to practice their religion in this country but not free to infringe on my civil rights as a united states citizen with their religious beliefs. Im a gay Buddhist and I do not force them to be vegitarian, practice chanting and breathing, avoid causing suffering to themselves and all sentiant beings. why should they be allowed to force their belief that shrimp eaters should be killed, o

[maggie]

It is not ok to discriminate so yes the laws will be put in place ie. Mass. Gays are equal to straights there. Gays are not equal in most states and on a fed. level either. Social Security. I had to make up a special will and special paperwork so I can see my partner in the hosp. and if her family decided to prevent this, it has been done in many cases. See Rosies website, she has a horrendous story about a gay couple that were together for many years and one had a brain aneurysm burst with minutes of life left and didnt have the special paper with them and the hosp. wouldnt allow her partner or their kids in to say goodbye so she died alone. Is this what you want for your kid? Could have been your kid. Do you feel good about this? Really? You want discrimination for your child or grandchild if they are gay? It is religious beliefs that makes it ok to discriminate againt gays. We pay equal taxes so we deserve to live equally. Gay people exist everywhere in the world so why wouldnt you want your kids to know that. We are never going away, you may have one yourself, dont you want the world to be good for them? I dont know any gay whose parents planned to have a gay child. We need to stop with the book thing, it was written thousands of years ago and we have been picking out of there whatever is needed to control people, it was a rule book for the times. Obviously two people of the same sex cant make a baby. Soooo!! Does everything on the planet have to make offspring. Gays want everything straights do, nothing more. We do everything straights do including the kid thing in very creative ways. We hate pedophiles and child molesters just as much. We dont want humans marrying animals-non consenting partners. If you intend to keep this up then at least "allow" us not to pay equal taxes. Either Im an American 100% or not. This is the craziest thing ever and what a waste of money, 70+ million dollars with all the real problems in the world!

[anna]

well this has been fun but prop 8 passed so...sorry. oh and a lesbian left a comment above stating that if prop 8 were to not pass i would be afraid to leave my home. so now we're saying gays are violent? you people are so confused. and please don't tell christians what the bible says and what it all means because if they are true christians then they have already read it and probably know it better than you. who's supposed to say whats right and whats wrong if we can't judge things against the word of god. oh and yes...i am narrow minded...thank you for noticing. the path i am on is straight and narrow, but i am on it. and for all of you, including some christians, that say only god can judge, you need to read the whole bible and not just one over-used verse. try it...because your wrong. your job is to judge...not sentence...others by their fruit and to hold each other accountable. how sad that theses days we're to scared to do that. this is all very sad! so bring on the bitter comments but i'm done with this site.

[Equality]

Toph said: " Why do gays and lesbian what to get marry anyways? They can't have kids naturally. If they just want to live together and spent the rest of their lives together, that is fine, it is totally their business that no one else should denies their rights, but why make it legal which will totally change the way our society functions."

Toph, I want to marry my partner so that I can be entitled to the 1400 state and federal rights and responsibilities that are guaranteed ONLY to married people (NOT to people in pseudo-marriages like 'domestic partnerships' or 'civil unions'). These include the right to visit my partner in the hospital, the right to pick up a sick child from school without a full interrogation, the right to get on my partner's insurance without jumping through a dozen hoops that married people don't have to, the right to automatically will my property to my spouse in the event of my death, and many, many more.

Why make it legal? To protect people who would otherwise be hurt. The only thing about society that will change is that more people (and their children) will be better protected.

[Equality]

Aileen wrote: "Gay people are allowed the same rights as Married people, but Churches and schools are not forced to accept it! Don't think for one minute that a gay couple is not going to sue a church for not marrying them if Prop 8 did not pass--and the church loses their tax exempt status for their beliefs. I love my lesbian sister, would I go to her marriage--Of course not! Do you not remember about Sodom and Gomorrah?? It states very definitely that homosexual acts are wrong--Am I infringing on their rights? Sin is sin--there is no justification."

1) Domestic partnerships and civil unions do NOT guarantee the same rights as married people. At best they OSTENSIBLY guarantee many of the 400 state rights, but gays are still barred from enjoying the other 1000 or so that federal law gives to married couples. And still they're not applied equally. When you signed up to get on your husband's insurance, did you have to provide to the insurer a copy of your wedding license? Financial records to that prove you'd both co-mingled funds and lived at the same residence for at least two years? Of course not, because the insurer simply took your word. In addition, if I should die, my partner is barred for two years from adding a new partner on her insurance policy while a heterosexual may marry the next day and add his or her partner immediately. Is that "equal", Aileen?

2) No church is going to lose its tax status because it refuses to perform gay marriages. Separation of church and state guarantees that, and it isn't changing. Why any gay person would want to ruin their most important day antagonizing a hostile religious institution is beyond me. Stop listening to scare tactics and THINK!

3) You wouldn't attend your lesbian sister's wedding because she is gay? That's your right - but how sad!

4) The story of Sodom and Gomorrah is about hospitality to strangers, not condemning gay sex. Remember how Lot offered the hostile gang of rapists outside his door his daughters instead of the male angel lodgers he was accommodating? Despicable as Lot's choice was, they rewarded his hospitality to them by blinding the mob before they could hurt anyone, and then guided Lot and his family away from the city before God destroyed it. As for why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, the Bible never specifies the sins of the inhabitants. Keep in mind that "to'ebah", the word used to condemn homosexuality as an "abomination", is the same word that applied to ritually impure acts like wearing clothing of two different fibers, planting two different crops in the same field, sitting where a menstruating woman has sat, and many more. Christ did away with those old laws and gave a new commandment that summed up how people should behave: Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself. If you deny gay people the right to marry, you are ignoring the Golden Rule and hurting good people who are not hurting you.

5) I, as a gay person, respect that the word "marriage" is sacred to religious institutions, and I've no wish to infringe on that word. The government could certainly create a new word like 'civil union' that applies to ALL couples who wish to live in a committed relationship and raise families, be they gay or straight, and reserve 'marriage' for people who want to further consecrate their union in a religious institution. But since they have not yet given us that choice, we simply ask for all the same 1400 state and federal rights that protect existing "marriages". It's not the word we're after, it's the rights - like inheritance, hospital visitation, property rights, etc that are all guaranteed automatically when a wedding is performed.

I hope some that voted for Prop 8 will read this and understand why their support is important to us. We pay taxes that support schools and religious institutions so that they may in turn give back to the community. We already support you. Please help support us. Peace.

[Jennifer]

Well, I think a lot of people that voted against prop 8 were the young people. I recently graduated form college and I can say that my university was liberal. You get taught that everything is basically acceptable . I think being gay is not physical rather a spiritual battle. I know of people who have battled it and I myself thought at one point if I was gay. But, with the help of God I realized I wasn't. And yes passing such proposition would affect children. Sometimes I believe gay people misunderstand their feelings of love and compassion for someone of the same sex. I think it's totally normal to feel deep love for someone of the same sex because of the person they are and because we were meant to love people regardless of sex. But, it doesn't mean you want to get physically intimate with them. I heard of a girl who faced this same issue when she had declared herself gay, now she's totally straight. She thought that because she deeply cared about this girl, she was gay. I feel our society really isn't physical. When I mean physical is that it's weird for a guys to hold hands or girls to be hugging a lot , simple stuff like that. But, it's not weird, they do it in some places in Europe. We are very physical people, we love to feel loved and special. I feel like gay couples want to get married to be considered the same as everyone else. And yes there humans and have feelings and deserve to be treated with respect. But, I don't believe in gay marriage. Marriage is between a men and a women. It was created to unite both sexes and so they could have babies. I think I've heard that they have the same rights as married couples except it's not called marriage. Why do you fight so hard to be accepted by society? That's really what it all is about, it's about being accepted for being homosexual when it comes down to it. If I were gay, which I'm not, I'd be happy with having protection and not looking for people's approval. Look African Americans were slaves, but before that they were free. Everyone had been free at some point. Now gay marriage, has it ever exited since the world started? I think you know the answer. And yes, in the future gay marriage might be legal here and all over the world. But, it doesn't make it right.

[Michael]

To Toph

So should we also vote to Null the marrage of Male and Female couples that can't have kids naturally. I mean that is on the not Normal factor.

[Jose]

i think that people should let this go now. the voters of California have voted! it was left up to Democracy and whether or not you like the outcome of it, it is done. let it go - besided Gays and Lesbians have all the same rights in a legal stand point. they still get a tax credit and everything alse that comes from being a domestic partner. marrige is and will always be a religios act!!!

[NEAL]

It's a shame that groups that have traditionally bitched and moaned about being disenfranchised can be supportive of such a blatantly discriminatory proposition. Can anyone say MISCEGENTATION? It wasn't that long ago that laws prevented blacks and hispanics from marrying whites. It wasn't that long ago that blacks were forced to sit in back of the bus and drinlk from a "whites only" soda fountain. And it's tiresome for someone to remain bigoted under the cloak of religion and "because the Bible says so." Whose Bible? Certainly not my Bible. If the Mormon Churcha dn the Catholic Church (under the guise of the Knights of Columbus) wants a say so in political and how I choose to live my life, then perhaps the church should start paying taxes. I can think of much better ways the churches could have spent the monies raised in support of the proposition - how about providing shelter to the homeless, feeding the hungry and disenfranchised, tutoring a child, mentoring a child, volunteering at an animal shelter...that would have been better spent.

[Toph]

This comment mentioned by someone earlier sums it all up perfectly, have a read:

I have nothing against gays and lesbian but why do they have to change the whole soiety and teach our children that it is normal. It is not normal, it is definitely not mother nature. If same sex marriage is legal, then it is okay for brothers and sisters to get marry? Why do gays and lesbian what to get marry anways? They can't have kids naturally. If they just want to live together and spent the rest of their lives together, that is fine, it is totally their business that no one else should denies their rights, but why make it legal which will totally change the way our society functions. I definitely do not want to let my kids think it is normal, although I think it is okay, BUT definitely NOT NORMAL.

[gorelick]

All of this is very interesting, but who's the little hottie in the photo?

[worried]

I hope these bigots' children end up gay, I would like them to have a taste of their own medicine.

[Michael]

Aileen
you overlook the many other parts of the Bible where it says not to eat shellfish or wear tow different kinds of cloth (also in Leviticus) or even the 10 Commandments themselves that say, for example, not to covet they neighbor's property--when is the last time someone was denied their rights just for envying someone else's car?

[Aileen]

Wow! what great comments both sides have! Kudos to the ones who are againsth Prop 8--Great responses! Did God intend for Man and Woman only to be married? Can a screw fit into another screw? And make a bolt? Oh,No?? But aren't your arguments that we don't know what God intended. Yes, of course we know what He intended. Have we distorted the truth? Of course, to suit our needs. Have we gone back in time to discrimination in regards to color, race, sexual orientation? No! Gay people are allowed the same rights as Married people, but Churches and schools are not forced to accept it! Don't think for one minute that a gay couple is not going to sue a church for not marrying them if Prop 8 did not pass--and the church loses their tax exempt status for their beliefs. I love my lesbian sister, would I go to her marriage--Of course not! Do you not remember about Sodom and Gomorrah?? It states very definitely that homosexual acts are wrong--Am I infringing on their rights? Sin is sin--there is no justification. God said that the more you take Him out of our lives, the more he will abandon us--It has happened in our public schools with more shootings and killings. We have to get back to Him! No matter how you feel about it!

[slp]

To those people of color who supported the ban. Thank you so much for stabbing your GLBT brothers and sisters in the back. After years of oppression, look who becomes the oppressors. Instead of backing a fellow minority, you decide to use Obama's election as an opportunity for pay-back. I hope your proud of yourself.

[chris]

I am tired of here all this "God said" BS. Did god tell you that personally? No? Oh you read it in a book that was written two thousand years ago? Well 40 years ago if a black man tried to run for president he would have been laughed off stage. Times change. People change. Homosexuality has been around longer than your bible. Alot of you voted for Obama who's main campaign slogan was "Change" yet you fear change. You talk about forcing other peoples views on you but as I drove around town I saw all these parents pimping their kids out on the street corner holding up their "yes on prop 8" signs. You don't want your kids to be taught about gay marriage in school, which isn't gonna happen anyways, because you want to raise your kids to be just like you. Close minded Jesus freaks. Did you have kids so that they could grow up to be their own people with their own minds or just to be a carbon copy of yourself. I think forcing your views on your children is more damaging then them learning other views and making up thief minds for themselves.
I have a 9 year old son and I have gone to alot of functions at his school, let me tell you, there are a few gay parents that are much better parents than some of the people I have seen there. Some parents just don't show up. They don't take part in the childs life.
You say a child needs to be raised by a man and a woman, well that just doesn't happen. I have many friends that are single moms. Two loving gay parents are much better than a deadbeat dad that never shows his face.
If you can't tell I voted no on 8 but apparently there is so much fear out there that controls your lives prop 8 passed.
The funniest part is that all you people that voted for prop 8 also voted for prop 2. So you care more about animal rights than human rights.
I want a proposition that stops people that live their lives based on a two thousand year old book from breeding.

[Shan]

I chuckle at all the comments from these religious people about what their GOD has told against gays. Specially those from the black folks out there considering the wide spread problem of children born out of wedlock, fathers with children with multiple partners and divorce. I guess their god is fine with that. Also dont forget Pastor Ted Haggard, the straight guy caught paying for gay sex and meth. You Christans are a bunch of damn hypocrits.

[Bob Rumin]

All of you people who voted yes on 8? You are all COWARDS.

You're terrified that "the gays" are going to somehow destroy a vision of a perfect little society that you hold so dear.

Well, I've got some news for you: Same-sex couples WILL eventually get the right to marry, whether you like it or not. It will happen. It may take a while, and it may have setbacks like this week's, but you are POWERLESS to stop this progress. Women eventually got their rights, racial minorities eventually got theirs, and gays and lesbians will get their rights as well one day. You simply cannot stop it.

So flail your arms and scream and shout all you want about how unnatural and wrong it is, but a decade from now you'll finally give up trying to prevent it.

And any African-Americans who voted no on this issue should be ashamed of themselves for moving to STOP equal civil rights. What has gotten into people's minds?

[NN]

Don, sorry to break it to you, but yes you are a religious nut. Stop imposing your Bible on the rest of America. God belongs in church, and should keep out of our statehouses and legislatures.

It is shocking and disappointing that bigotry has prevailed in California of all places.

And to all the black voters in California voting Yes on 8, you don't deserve Obama, and November 4 was not your day. Obama was a triumph of the civil rights movement. Obama opposed Proposition 8, the Defense of Marriage Act, and any "Marriage" amendment to the constitution. By voting on yes on 8 you are denying others the same rights you want for yourselves. Shame, shame on you.

[Larry Faulkner]

" kNOw Prop. 8" was the word that opened surprisingly intimate and deeply felt conversations with my neighbors in Liemert Park. Everyone I met was (at the very least) respectful and thoughtful in their objections to same sex marriage and those on the other side were passionately supportive of the absolute right to chose our most important person.

In that mix, I understood what marriage might be: Waking up every morning to the most beautiful person in the world.

BeYouToFullness in making that choice.

[Santanna]

I feel as if people broke into my house and rifled though my things. Nice people, religious people, calmly not hatefully discussing what is enough for me. Item by item judging what is obscene for me to have. Not that the item is obscene but that my possession of it is obscene. Carefully with a smile they made piles and then industriously took away what I shouldn't have. As they left they were surprised by my stricken look. One slapped me back to reality and said "Don't be a whiner, you get what you deserve because of what you are". He would have a point. I should know what is allowed me by now.

This is how I feel today. Those that voted yes on 8 mission accomplished, we are the dog you kicked.

[Male40]

I voted Yes on 8. I voted for this item for several reason, one that runs deeper than the issue itself.First, in terms of democratic actions, the question was put on the table for a vote by the people of california and the final verdict was issued. In turn, this an ideal method to contest the decision of ONE court, one judge, who dissented on this issue. The people of californoa have expressed their opinion for this issue and, I suspect, the issue will be fought in the courts and they will persist to push this topic even further in the face of a democratic method of voting. At this point, who wants to throw the final vote out and never take into consideration the expressed answer of a majority?? We might as well rescind the final vote for Obama, or hundreds of other measures on the ticket. In fact, lets us not wste the time and money and just allow the courts to legislate the final vote for all of us, in every ballot. I belive this path will only take us along detours, u turns, and dead ends without a final, definitive resolution to this topic.

Nonetheless, I feel this is a loud call for the defense of marriage, between a man and a woman, as this has been defined, lived out, and practiced over thousands of years across nearly every nation on earth. Yes, it is true, that we make this argument based on religious grounds, or based on tradition, or based on our personal lives as we were raised by our mothers and fathers, or based on our natrual instinct to become families and raise children. This is the way of life for millions of couples and families in America and, rightfully so, we act to protect this definition from those who seek to unravel this definition that has been a main pillar of our great society, one that has been at the core from generation upon generations in America and, frankly, throughout the entire World.

[Paul]

did the last poster really just use the phrase "separate but equal?" wow....haven't we learned anything? how do you think history is going to view you guys?

[Equality]

Branden said: "For those that say gay marriage won't hurt anyone, including religions, just look to Europe and Massachussets for examples. Religious based adoption agencies were shut down because they asserted their beliefs, teachers have been fired because they wouldn't discuss gay marriage in schools (marriage isn't even a school issue, but when gay marriage was allowed it was mandated to be taught in some curriculums), clergy have lost their licenses both to marry and practice, religious institutions and charities have lost their tax exemptions, etc."

The slippery slope argument again. The adoption agencies you mentioned were not "shut down" -- they voluntarily ceased parts of their operations because the state imposed on them the requirement that they not descriminate while receiving public funding. They were free to continue operating on private funds, which meant smaller operations. As for the teachers, if their religious beliefs conflict with the secular school which is subject to state regulation and funding, there is nothing preventing them from teaching at a privately-funded religious school whose rules agree with them. No clergy have lost their licenses to perform marriage ceremonies; that is a lie. The state does not interfere with a religious institution's operation and only gives it tax benefits because of its positive community outreach programs; but those institutions may discriminate as they like without losing funding.

In short, all of your examples don't hold a drop of water, and thus you've no valid argument for preventing gay marriage.

[na]

One step forward with Obama, and one step backward with a Yes on Prop 8.

Shameful that bigotry isn't seen as on par as racism.

[TheTruthHurts]

How ironic. Blacks who rightfully spent the evening in tears of joy on a night symbolic of their long road to equality in this country are the very same voting block that was key in defeating the equality of gays and lesbians. Look into your mirrors as you celebrate this message of inclusion that is so integral to this historic election and find an explanation as to why you would become such a roadblock to the equality of others. The hypocricy is ugly and bigoted.

[Albatros]

I think everybody should marry everybody else, then we are all happy. From now on, everybody within USA borders is Married to each other. I don't think we should stop at gay marriage, how about threesome and foursome and so on...

[Todo]

Goodness, I'm sure glad that my being an atheist instead of a Christian makes my sense of moral ethics so much more clear and unbiased. Yup. Get over yourselves, all your self-righteous drivel isn't fooling anyone.
I really am glad that I'm atheist, just so i can stick it in your faces that the so called "Christian brainwashing" you all think is the cause for the passing of this law was not the reason for my voting for it. I just haven't lost my sense of right and wrong.
How has the desire for tolerance changed so drastically, and instead turned into a blatant disregard for what our base morals are?

[Equality]

A poster named J.R. wrote: "In conclusion, if Prop 8 does pass, homosexual couples will not loose one single legal right under the law, nor will they loose one single obligation under the law (yes domestic partners are also subject to alimony). If Prop 8 passes, the only thing homosexual couples will loose is a title."

Allow me, a gay woman in a domestic partnership (but who wants to marry!) to educate you. A domestic partnership is NOT equal. I'll give you JUST ONE example from many many MANY: When my partner tried to add me to her insurance, we had to provide bank statements proving we'd co-mingled finances for at least two years, we had to prove we'd lived at the same address at least two years, we had to provide a copy of our Domestic Partnership certificate, and IF, god forbid, I should die, my partner would be ineligible to add a new partner to her policy for AT LEAST two years. Contrast that with married couples, who did not have to provide a copy of their marriage license, nor proof of residence or duration of it, nor proof of co-mingled finances (and what if a married couple did NOT co-mingle finances? my sister and her husband do not!), nor any other thing that domestic partners were singled out for... and a heterosexual person could lose a partner and remarry the next day and add their new spouse to their policy without a two year wait just to prove that the relationship is 'real'. And Domestic Parterships only OSTENSIBLY grant (with just as many obstacles!) the ~400 STATE rights of marriage, but NONE of the ~1000 FEDERAL rights. Tell me again how this is EQUALITY???

There is NO "gay agenda". There is NO conspiracy of evil gay people who are seeking to undermine religion. Many of us are also religious! People who try to convince you of such silly things are only trying to further dehumanize us, and it's no different than bigots who declare Jews or blacks sub-human so they can justify their hatred. In seeking marriage, we are NOT in any way defacing what that word means to religious communities. We simply want the same rights automatically granted through marriage that you get. You can rewrite 1400 laws to enforce equality, or you can include in the word 'marriage' a group that was formerly excluded so they can automatically enjoy those rights. OR... you can simply call all marriages CIVIL marriages or CIVIL unions, and those of a religous persuasion can solemnize their union further in their houses of worship. Any of those would work, so long as all people are treated equally.

In short, there is NO attack on the word 'marriage'. If Prop 8 passes, heterosexuals will enjoy the rights they always did, but thousands will specifically be denied those same rights. All the other arguments for Prop 8 are straw men - homosexuality will NOT be taught in schools, nor any of the other rubbish. I can't "teach" anyone to be gay - they either are or they aren't. Again, the fact that the Yes on 8 proponents needed to lie to you in order to further their agenda should tell you something about their morality.

One more thing - over 50% of heterosexual marriages end in divorce. Any of you who are divorced and voted for Prop 8 did not respect marriage in the first place and have no leg to stand on when trying to defend that institution. Jesus never once condemned homosexuals but loudly condemned divorce. Think on that.

[Adrian]

NONESENSE!!!!

5,376,424 voted yes for Prop 8
4,879,010 voted no
total CA voters 10,246,434

Blacks make up 6% of CA electorate or 614,786 votes out of the 10,246,434.
70% voted yes for Prop 8 or 430,350.

The gap between total yes and total no votes is 506,414!!!

BLACK VOTERS WERE NOT THE DECIDING FACTOR!!!

Only if you assume 100% of blacks or 614,786 voted no, then the initiative would have failed. But let's be realistic.

PLEASE PLEASE blame the 5,376,424 who voted yes! The vast majority of whom are white as they make the biggest share of the California electorate

[maggie]

To those who are trying to save the children from us queers, I dont know any gay who "decided" to be gay by watching, reading gay anything. You're saying its a choice, so by saying this you're saying your being straight was a choice. I no more chose to be gay then you chose to be straight. God wants us to love ourselves as he made us. Feeling comfortable being out everyday actually has just become comfortable to me. It was actually something that took a long time to figure out. God knows whats in my heart. I could pretend to be straight to make all those homophobes more comfortable but then Im lying to God and not living the way I was intended to live. Homophobes seem to forget that gays were children once too. Raised as if we were straight. Assuming we would find a partner of the opposite sex and marry. When my poor mother found out I was gay she did every thing she could to "snap" me out of it and included "blaming" herself thinking she did something horribly wrong. I grew up in small town Iowa . Not an out gay anywhere around so who influenced me to "become" gay? All it did, not knowing anyone else gay was to make me horribly afraid someone would find out the "horrible" secret. Living my life to make others more comfortable. Thats the sin! Well you can keep trying to push us back into the closet but were not going. Being gay doesnt hurt anyone. Not being true to yourself does. I want my equal rights, marrying the adult person I love, Im an American too! Civil unions mean nothing in most states and you cant carry them across state lines. The medical insurance companies Ive worked with, most do not allow domestic partner benefits. Luckily I found one that does but they consider it income for me to cover her so guess who gets to pay more taxes because were not husband and wife. One last thing, my mom didn't plan for a gay child either but she got one so you might just get one too. Wouldnt it be lovely if there was no discrimination against he or she and that the child had good out and proud role models? I wish I would have had someone gay to talk to growing up knowing I was different. Teenage suicide includes alot of picked on gay teens. Thats ok with God huh? Its not a choice, who would choose to be discriminated against? Really? You think we do this? All the wasted money to discriminate against a small group of people. Really was it the best way to use it? From churches no less. Wow is all I have to say. God is watching and I wonder what he's thinking. This really is a control issue. A few get to control others and for some reason feel better about themselves. Very sad way to live. Well as Rosie says, Peace out!!

[Winner]

YEAH WE WON ! ! ! Good wins again, thats twice in a row. Man its good to be alive in California. Seeing that the majority still favors the long held tradition of marriage is kind of heart warming.

I want to thank every one of you "NO on 8" people for simply driving home the point again, and again of how those people who cry out for tolerance, are in fact the least tolerant of all. Well bravo, and congratulations, your harsh remarks and "hurtful" comments have done you all a world of good in showing how you are the more accepting out of us. I bet half of you don't even know what the term "Bigot" means.

[Scott Gilbertson]

People forget that laws regarding the behavior of a societies citizens stem usually from the "Religion" of the land. Our country has laws based on Judeo - Christian "Commandments". Since Most of Our Founding Fathers were of one Christian sect or another the "Laws" of the land usually reflect the religious views of the governed. Where today's citizens have difficulty is that an ever growing number of the populous is straying away from the faith of their fathers. Instead of seeking a faith that fits their beliefs so many Americans simply opt out of religion altogether. Such persons tend to allow an attitude of whats best for me, as opposed to whats best my family or for society as a whole to rule their lives and thoughts as to how to conduct themselves. The test is simple would the world benefit from all people living a certain lifestyle or from abstaining from it! Ask yourself? Think about the world, not just yourself. A world full of Married couples, troubles and All, is an eternal plan unending. A world of Gay relationships Ends in a Generation or two. The Gay Life style cannot survive without heterosexual relations - Heterosexuals can do just fine without gay marriages or any other such relations. Gay people add a lot to our society not because they are Gay but rather because they are People. The rights for which our Gay friends have sought after have been misdirected. Instead of rights the Gay society wanted an exclusion or exception from the rules. Societal rules have always been that two men or two women living together are for all realistic purposes - Roomates - Gay or Straight thats the rule of society. Society then says if you want to be married you must marry someone of the opposite gender - Gay or Straight that is the rule. Gay society has attempted to change the rule by changing the definition of marriage, Californians have spoken that marriage is a union between a male and a female. Any other relationship is a roomate situation. Marriage is another one of those religious practices which have crossed the lines from Church rule into our society thus becoming a set of laws from which our society seeks guidance on the rules of life. It is an optional rule for those who wish to participate in it, but if we do we must all obey the laws of marriage. If we opt for some other relationship thats ok too in America. That is the set of "Rights" afforded to all - Gay and Straight. By allowing Gay Marriage - a union of two same gendered individuals roomates become a married couple. Would roomates not desiring to be married become a married couple in those states with common law marriage rules?

Gay partners need to unite - Come up with a term suitable to them and create a law for Same Sex Couples - then have The Governator sign that relationship into Law for Same sex Couples only. You make the rules you enjoy the benefits of the laws - Equal but seperate from Marriage. If you put your heads together you might even get a few "perks" tossed in which make the old Married folk jealous!

We Californians wish the Gay community well - Now that you are out of the closet enjoy your individuality - don't try to be just like the straight people of America because your not - You are Gay! So act Gay, be Gay, rejoice in your
choice and do what the straight world has done for thousands of years - Make the best of the siuation you are in and accept majority rule. If you still are not happy then be persuasive to the majority and work to gain converts to your cause. - It only took the Blacks 148 years from being made free to the get to the Whitehouse. Mr. Obama did not go the route of past Civil rights leaders, instead he offered something "better" was lovingly persuasive, out funded, out campaigned, out manuevered the established White Politicos of the day and obtained the prize he sought. He - Changed Perhaps the Gay Community should "Change" as well.

[CB]

Goodness Teacherlady, your argument was just so poignant, and well constructed that I cant see why anyone wouldn't agree with you and your view of the world.
What a lame excuse for a cutting remark, I bet you thought you were pretty clever.Why don't you and the pool of "intellectuals" you hang with go and cry about how the world is unfair because some people are still trying to keep a semblance of decency in existence in this state.
And please don't respond because the extent of your intelligence has already been displayed and its obvious you have nothing of worth or value to add to the discussion.

[Gabriel]

YES YES YES to ban gay marriage. Essentially this is semantics but really it's about specific rights such as who gets what when who dies and things like only family members allowed to visit hospital patients, etc.
Gays need to be acknowledged as such in a legal binding manner (such as standing in line to pay for your newborn's birth cert.) so that above problems are mitigated. But, saying they are an equal to the VERY proper manner of marriage as that of being BETWEEN opposites is absolutely false and as such is an outright lie.
I vow to speak the truth to any child, adult, or other and will NOT under any circumstances be told I have misspoken.

[Kit]

The passing of prop 8 indicates a deeper issue that both straights and gays must face. The absurdity of the bible and religion all together. Imagine if "christian" society actually followed Leviticus literally:

People with "familiar spirits" (witches, fortune tellers, etc.) are to be stoned to death. 20:27 (Hey should we go stone and attack psychics?)

Handicapped people cannot approach the altar of God. They would "profane" it. 21:16-23 (Hey cripple folks can't come near the altar)

Don't do any work on the day of atonement or God will destroy you. 23:29-30 (yup like that is gonna happen)

God tells the Israelites to make slaves out of their neighbors and their families. The "heathens" and "strangers" are to be their possessions forever. 25:44-46
(Wait is that what God told racist slave owners as well?)

Women are dirty and sinful after childbirth, so God prescribes rituals for their purification. If a boy is born, the mother is unclean for 7 days and must be purified for 33 days; but if a girl is born, the mother is unclean for 14 days and be purified for 66 days. This is because, in the eyes of God, girls are twice as dirty as boys. 12:1-5

A priest can only marry a virgin. No harlots, widows, or divorced women will do 21:13-14--that's a real funny one

There are a few good universal passages like proverbs, but most of the bible is full of contradictions, violence, incest, giving up your daughters to a perverted mob, and other absurdities. Most importantly, it's 5,000 yr old FICTION!

I hope the battle does not end here. In the meantime, GLBT folks as well as straight supporters in California, should create a tax boycott campaign. Since GLBT are treated like second class citizens, don't pay taxes.

[Branden]

Also, aren't all those criticizing the Catholics and (more especially, and venemously) the Mormons also guilty of the same hatred they accuse others of? Mormon Mafia? Bigots? They're merely taking a stand for what they believe in, just like those who are fighting for gay rights. While they may have supported Prop 8, I know many people in both religions who are more than willing to fight just as hard for gay and lesbian couples on other issues. Those who wouldn't.. Those are the bigots, and you can have at them as you will.

[Branden]

Sorry, but I too have to say that voting yes on Prop 8 is the right step. No, I don't like that it takes away certain necessary rights for gay and lesbian couples. I do not believe marriage is a right, but I do believe anyone should be able to bestow their benefits on one other individual, that you should be allowed to let your loved one in to see you when you're hospitalized and many other such rights. Let's face it, marriage is just the fast track to these rights that are being denied to those who deserve them. They need to be guaranteed to gays and lesbians without infringing on what we deem to be an institution created by God. God's institution, God's rules.

For those that say gay marriage won't hurt anyone, including religions, just look to Europe and Massachussets for examples. Religious based adoption agencies were shut down because they asserted their beliefs, teachers have been fired because they wouldn't discuss gay marriage in schools (marriage isn't even a school issue, but when gay marriage was allowed it was mandated to be taught in some curriculums), clergy have lost their licenses both to marry and practice, religious institutions and charities have lost their tax exemptions, etc. There are other worries too, but those are far too sensitive and controversial to bring up outside of a religious setting.

In short, forget gay marriage, but not the rights that gay couples are entitled to.

[Austin]

If you voted yes on proposition 8, but laughed your ass off to Will & Grace: screw you. You can't pick and choose what you like from the gay community.

This reminds me of the 1950's

"I really like that song mister negro, but could you please not use that drinking fountain?"

Or how about this?

"Women don't have the intelligence to vote. The only skill they have is in the kithen."

And to the people who argue that marriage is a sacred religious institution: I can legally marry a hammered prostitute on the Vegas strip and have it annulled the next day. Is that okay? "Yes, only if it's between a man and a woman." I see.

All men are created equal (except for the gay ones).

I was born in this country. I'm a tax-paying American Citizen. If you want to keep marriage a strictly religious practice, then give up your insurance and government perks.

[Richard]

Greed in right wing politics has found yet another way - actually an old way - to influence people - through fear - under the guise of religion. The Mormon Church Mafia and Roman Catholic hypocrites need to - at the VERY least - lose their tax exempt status. If we allow them to dictate law under the "fear" of religion, the promotion of the backwards belief that man and dinosaurs co-existed a mere 6000 years ago, is only the tip of the iceberg. What we have seen now - a church sponsored proprostion to promote hatred and bigotry - is inexcuseable for anyone who calls themself a "Christian".

[Katherine]

"More than 1,400 legal rights are conferred upon heterosexual married couples in the United States. By not being allowed to marry, gays and lesbians are denied these rights." (about.com, legal benefits of marriage)

That, an unbiased website, says it all--civil unions deny citizens of the United States of America the rights granted to all heterosexuals who choose to exercise them. If there was a viable alternative (don't say anything about civil unions, those grant only a fraction of the rights of marriage and are not valid once a homosexual couple crosses state lines) then we would be able to focus on the religious aspect of this debate, but right now it is a blatant legal inequality.

I challenge all supporters of Prop 8 to do some research on the domestic partnership benefits in your state and compare them to the enormous benefits of marriage. Don't just follow the conservative herd--look into the real issue and think for yourselves.

[Reid]

For those who say "I respect and accept gay people, but they shouldn't have the right to marry," it's like saying

"I respect and accept black people but they don't have the right to live in my neighborhood"

or
"I respect and accept latinos, but they don't have the right to police protection"

or
"I respect and accept foreigners, I just don't think they're human beings."

We're not animals. We don't want to marry our mothers and fathers. We are humans. We ask for human rights. And Prop 8 is about hate. Period.

[David]

I can't believe there is so much HATE in this world. for people to get out and vote YES to eliminate what others consider their happiness. Shameful!

I would like to see what you'd have to say when one of your children turn out to be GAY. What goes around comes around people. good luck to ya!

[stacy]

Hey ICU 4WHATUR, You have forced your moral beliefs on us. Why do you think we would even want to bring kids into this? That is your sick thinking. Twisted truths were used to scare the sheep of the world and they just simply followed the flock instead of getting to the truth of the matter: Civil rights. I hope for your children's sake they do not have the gay gene. I am sure you would be a very supportive parent.

[MauraHennessey]

So nice to see that California has embraced religion and godliness....and established a religion that controls pblic policy and morality.
Mormonism: the official religion of California

Since the yes on * people bought the lies and hyperbole hook, line and sinker.

Perhaps the next proposition will be to define who is really Christian and may use the term.

[Aaron]

This proposition if it wins, was won using ignorance and prejudice. I fully believe that the light is still there at the end of tunnel, offering equality and the persuit of happiness regardless of sexual orientation and I know that I will live to see it. We have to remember that the same people that voted Yes on this are the same people that voted for Bush twice! Saddened? Yes. Surprised? No.

[Caitlin]

wow... the ignorance of some people. i cannot believe people actually think that legalizing gay marriage will destroy society. we functioned exactly the same when it was legal as we have since the bans have occured. and just because a gay couple gets married, that does NOT mean that other peoples' children will be harmed. and i'm sorry but homosexuality IS natural, no matter what one may feel. no one CHOOSES to be gay. didn't God make each and every one of us in his own image? and didn't God say that He alone has the right to judge us and that we will each have our turn in front of Him? how do you think He will judge YOU knowing that you judged His beloved creation and denied them certain rights that come with being a human being and an American citizen? and Maria Isabel... show me exactly where in the US CONSTITUTION (first of all, learn to spell it) it says that gay marriage is not allowed. if you can show me that i might believe you. until then i will keep considering you a complete imbecile.

and to contradict the belief that allowing gay marriage will lead to incest and bestiality, wow. first of all, bestiality is disgusting and makes no sense whatsoever. second of all, who's to say that banning gay marriage won't one day lead to a ban on interracial marriage? it's the same idea and it makes absolutely no sense at all.

i would highly appreciate it if people would research ideals and propositions before voting on them and would think before they post something that sounds absolutely ridiculous!

[ICU 4WHATUR]

I dont want to restrict any persons rights. That includes my rights to what I want my children taught and exposed to in school. Get married, but dont force your way of life on the rest of us. Yes on 8.

[Christopher]

Drug dealers, wife beaters, child molesters, rapists and murderers all have the right to get married but gays can’t? What a pathetic place and time we live in when people chose to support those who bring harm to others rather then support those who just love each other. Try explaining that to a child.

[Michael]

I AM SORRY TO MY SISTER - MY BROTHERS, MY FRIENDS/ BUT IF I AM EXCLUDED I WILL EXLUDE MYSELF FROM YOUR BS MARRIAGES

Posted by: johnandadam | November 04, 2008 at 08:58 PM

I am with you on this one....

[Stacy]

Yesterday California voters gave cows, chicken, and pigs new civil rights, but took away the civil rights of their fellow man. Shame on you who voted yes on 8.

[erin]

i can't believe how many nearly unintelligible comments are being left in support of prop 8....thanks for perpetuating a stereotype i've long upheld: that you sheep in the religious right are blindly following along a path directed by people in power who count on you being too stupid to educate yourself and learn the difference between right and wrong. well done.

[mcg]

The title and content of this blog post (and article) cannot be supported by the exit polls. Yes, *among those polled*, whites did not favor the proposition. The problem is that the exit polls do not coincide with the final tally! If you add up the exit poll numbers, you find that they interviewed more "no" votes than "yes". If you reweight to reflect the final outcome, then all races supported the measure.

[mcg]

The title and content of this blog post (and article) cannot be supported by the exit polls. Yes, *among those polled*, whites did not favor the proposition. The problem is that the exit polls do not coincide with the final tally! If you add up the exit poll numbers, you find that they interviewed more "no" votes than "yes". If you reweight to reflect the final outcome, then all races supported the measure.

[Dan]

I have difficulty believing the mindless drivel being spouted out by the proponents of Yes on 8. Have any of you sheeple done any research on the history of marriage? I especially loathe the pundits with their quotes from Leviticus when just sentences after it supports rape and slavery. Unnatural? Look at nature, homosexual behavior occurs there too. Polygamy? That is natural. Monogamy is actually an 'unnatural' state.

Sanctity of marriage? Oh god. Save. Me. From. Idiots.
Heterosexual couples have already dragged good ole 'pure' sanctity out into a backalley and clubbed it over the head a couple million divorces over.

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9893/gay000306marriageed01darl3.jpg

[Will Partridge]

Down with judicial activism, eh? It's wrong to override the democratic process?

Well, you may recall another time a supreme court overruled the will of the people--when the U.S. Supreme Court invalidated segregation in Brown v. Board. That's what Supreme Courts do when they are at their best: guard against a tyranny of the majority, and invalidate acts of (popularly elected) legislatures.

Now, imagine what would have happened if the United States Constitution could have been amended by popular referendum--imagine a constitutional amendment banning racially integrated schools. Bad times. But then, blacks today might not be in such a hurry to foreclose the civil liberties of another minority.

[D Wain]

My fellow Americans just voted to take away my rights as a human being. My family is devastated. Who is safe?

[Michael]

sad to see that the two main groups (african americans and latinos) that have to constantly fight against discrimination have overwhelmingly supported to write discrimination in the constitution

[Diana S.]

my parents and i are latino and we voted no on 8. i think alot of people keep focusing on other people's marriges and what not that they don't focus on their own.

my mom is hard core catholic. but she understands that if you love someone you feel like taking the next step is a good one. no one should be able to tell another that they can't marry someone.

plus everyone keeps saying that "oh they will teach our children about gay marriage being normal."

i turned 19 yesterday Nov. 4th and growing up and going to public school we didn't even get taught about heterosexual marriage in school.

i believe that marriage doesn't necessarily have to be a religious commitment. it should be a commitment to your significan't other.

[Juan]

"i have nothing against gay ppl, in fact i'm friends with some. but it actually is gonna be taught in schools & churches are gonna be forced to perform gay weddings. its redefining the whole constitution. look at europe. they've legalized gay marriage & thats led to polygamy and now even siblings can marry. they're already messed up and i dont want america to end up that way."

Me Too,

Dont know where you went to school, but here in California....we didnt get to listen to squat about sex-ed unless our parents signed off on it. Churches are NOT going to be forced to do weddings, it is the churches right to accept or refuse. As far as polygamy, it is obviously not a current society thing...but it was fully allowed in the bible.

The sad part, is that many voted with this kind of misinformed mentality. step out the box people.

For the record... I'm a Father, Husband to a Wife and Catholic. This was one family that went No on 8.

[Mabel]

Yes to Proposition 8.
It is not true that straight people are not affected by gay marriages. This changes everything, and, therefore, affects everyone. It changes the way children will be brought up and the things that society will value. It changes how children think and what they will perceive as truth.
I respect the agency of any individual, as long as it doesn't go against truth and affect others. That is when something must be done.
America is a nation built by God and protected by Him.

[Mike]

Divorce is denigrating to the sanctity of marriage and is damaging to our children. LET'S OUTLAW DIVORCE NEXT! And then Adultry!

All you people that voted to carve your religious beliefs into our State Constitution have dealt a serious blow to the American ideal of governance. The Constitution is there to protect all citizens rights and property, not to restrict the rights of a specific minority. Prop 8 makes me sick.

[nessa]

I agree with you chippy :D The government shouldn't control who you marry. We are all humans, we should have the same rights. You don't see people prtoesting against straight marriages. Did we vote on your marriage? NO. If voting no is against religion, God will still love us either way. He is the one who made us & he can accept our actions and choices. If God was strictly against it, then why doesn't he eliminate everyone that is bi or gay a long time ago? Makes no sense. I'm glad the percentage has gone down :D If it passes, get married at a different state & still live in California. Like Vages for example. Think about it. & it won't be tought in chilrens education either.

[Eric]

For all you who voted no on prop 8. How are your views toward polygamy? Based on all of your rationales for voting no: equal rights, religious freedom, civil rights, etc., we should allow a man and two women or visa versa to marry. You can spout equality forever, and you can have it in a civil union. Just don't call it a marriage. The reason we don't allow it, it because we make a moral judgment that it is wrong. Do we allow a man and a dog to get married, or a man and a cat? NO, we are making the judgment that we don't want to call that a marriage. Not saying we hate those people, we are just drawing lines in the sand. I can disagree with a person's actions while not hating them.

[Yonci]

IS HOMOSEXUALITY RIGHT IN GOD'S EYES? (Do we really care?)

I've been reading many passionate comments made from both sides of the PROP 8 argument and I understand why the views are so opposing.

There is a moral disagreement. Is homosexuality wrong in God's eyes? Is it a sin? My belief is yes. The reason? I believe in God and that His word is 100% accurate and infallible. As humans, we are so used to living our lives according to FEELINGS and EMOTIONS. "If it feels good-do it" or "Lookin' out for No. 1".

Many people who are engaging in the homosexual lifestyle make the claim that they are Christians or love God, but live directly in conflict to His commands. They mistake His love and kindness for an ability to overlook sin. He DOES love us, but not while we are living in sin. Because He is so holy, he cannot dwell where sin is.

So is homosexuality a sin? The Word of God clearly says so. It is up to each person to believe if the Word of God is 100% true or if it is only partially true (or perhaps it is not true at all).

I can say from personal experience, when I am living a life that the Lord says is pleasing, I am able to experience a joy I can not discribe. When I'm living in sin, I'm miserable.

The thing is, the Devil makes sin look and feel REALLY good. He whispers in our ears, "Homosexuality is not REALLY a sin. It's just love for another person. How could a loving God deny someone the right to love another?"

Well, until we get to Heaven, we won't know all the reasons behind God's laws, but I do know this, true peace comes from living in His will. There have been numerous stories about people who turned to the Lord for salvation and he freed them from the bonds of their sexual sin.

Someone made a comment on here about having a relationship with cats and dogs. Sounds silly to say but, homosexuality (in the Bible) is listed among other sins like incest and beastiality, but only because of our "modern way of thinking" it is considered acceptable now. It used to be looked at in the same light just a few decades ago.

If you do not believe in the Word of God, this comment is not for you. For those of you who do, I encourage you to get into the Word of God and study what He says about it. It breaks His heart. He carefully designed woman for man that she would complete him. He wanted them to reproduce so that they could bring up the next generation to follow Christ.

I wish everyone the peace that only God can give.

[Gary]

The bible says it is a sin to be gay. Why would anyone want to argue what was created by our lord above who gave his life for us to live. Men were given a penis to associate with a woman's vagina, not man on man. It's bad enough that there are domestic partnership's, why insult our lord even more and call it a MARRIAGE!!!! Why influence our kids to think that it is okay to be gay? You say it doesnt affect our kids but it does. All kids watch TV! Prop 8 is about preserving MARRIAGE the way it has been for the past centuries? Why now in 2008 is this issue trying to be changed? Leave Marriage the way it was created. I can go on and on, but it's pointless, the gay community is trying to brainwash our minds and our kids minds to take the Satanic route! YES on PROP 8, 52% to 48%, accept it and move on.

[Free Dumb]

Gay marriage goes on nicely in most European countries & has for a long time.
Take a trip. Look around. They are better off for it & the state makes more money.
All you chimps that voted yes will be judged for your actions.
You bought into the false scare tactics using kids.
America goes backward while the rest of the world advances.

Enjoy the dark ages, hypocrites.

[Jose]

WOW, I've been all over the world, served my country 8 years, I"m a 27 year Hispanic, Catholic raised male. and after reading throught the majority of comments on here I am just SADDENED at the ignorant minds of most people on here. Why are sooooo many people afraid of LOVE???? If two people love each other why can they not have the right to legally spend the rest of they're lives together???? I laugh at the religious argument, because ALL MY LIFE, I have been taught to love one another and accept one another. Gays are going to have they're own UNION ceremonies ANYWAY! AT LEAST give them the right to enjoy full legal benifits from it. Its not like the STRAIGHT people can handle Marriage either, remind me again, WHATS THE DIVORCE RATE IN AMERICA???? enough said...

[Seth]

With the passage of Prop 8, the big dog of California has declared it won't be wagged by its tail.

Prop 8 takes nothing from the homosexuals; they can still do whatever they want, they simply cannot call it whatever they want.

Society has a legitimate interest and right to define and endorse an institution that is the source of productive, healthy citizens, namely the family based on the one-man one-woman marriage. Furthermore, society has a right to resist and discourage self-destructive behavior, like smoking and homosexual behavior (sorry folks, check the numbers).

When you look at places where homosexual "marriage" has been tried, you find they don't choose it in large numbers. Instead, they use the societal endorsement to further break down resistance to questionable behavior, such as prostitution, drug abuse, euthanasia, pedophilia, etc.

They claimed they wanted tolerance; when they got it, they moved on to endorsement. California is right to draw a reasonable line.

[Colin]

75% of gays in california voted for barack obama.

75% of blacks in california voted in favor of prop 8.

on a day when we advanced the struggle of civil rights for blacks by years, we knocked the struggle of civil rights for gays back by years.

i'm gay and voted for barack obama. nice to know that blacks are looking out for me too.

[Lenin]

Marriage is an institution in which interpersonal relationships (usually intimate and sexual) are acknowledged by the state or by religious authority

This was a state measure had nothing to do with religion!!

Religion and State are separate.

Voting Yes wasn't the right choice.

[Nathan]

A California domestic partnership is a legal relationship available to same-sex couples, and to certain opposite-sex couples in which at least one party is at least 62 years of age. It affords the couple virtually all of the same substantive legal benefits and privileges, and imposes upon the couple virtually all of the same legal obligations and duties, that California law affords to and imposes upon a married couple.[2]
Enacted in 1999, the domestic partnership registry was the first of its kind in the United States created by a legislature without court intervention. Initially, domestic partnerships enjoyed very few privileges—principally just hospital-visitation rights. The legislature has since expanded the scope of California domestic partnerships to afford many of the rights and responsibilities common to marriage. As such, it is now difficult to distinguish California domestic partnerships from civil unions offered in a handful of other states.

If I Vote, obviously in the future, to support Gay Marriage, will the activists please include a Measure/Prop that allows the state to recognize HETEROSEXUAL DOMESTIC PARTNERSHIP.

Just a thought.

[BoiLyric]

Last night, we witnessed history with Barak Obama being elected President of the United States of America. It's about time that this country step down from the steps of hipocaracy. Now we wait for the out come of Proposition 8 that strips away certain individuals civil liberties...there seems to be a dichotomy here.

The Constitution of the United States calls for the seperation of church and state for good reason. A group of people cannot dictate morality when their moral compass is swinging in the wind.

I hear people saying that allowing gay people to marry is wrong, but in ancient societies homosexuality was not frowned upon and was not considered abnormal...actually it was quite the opposite.

Gay people as tax payers should have the same rights as heterosexual married couples. Marriage is a right and not a privelege and should be granted to all people...straight and gay.

[James]

The Black Community didn't just tell us to sit at the back of the bus, they freakin threw us under the damn bus!

[ChrisGreen]

This is why I voted 'YES' on prop 8:

A legal marriage by the state of CA is a agreement between two members of the opposite gender and the state for the purposes of child rearing. Thats all it is. Child rearing is principle reason moderns states got involved regulating marriage in the first place. To the extent that having both a father and a mother is the optimal envronment to rear a child (and I believe it is), legal marriage (as regulated by the state) should ONLY be between a man and a woman.

The two partners don't have to be in love; they don't have to even be attracted to each other. A gay man and a lesbian can legally get married with the goal of raising a child, and as long as they were absolutely committed to that child and their working relationship, and I would be perfectly happy. In fact, anybody, regardless of race, gender, religion or ethnicity can marry a member of the opposite sex and have (or adopt) children.

State marriage, is about the responsible rearing of children in the best possible envronment and that requires the different strengths and perspectives that both genders bring to the table.

[Kuka18]

I have to say after what we experienced yesterday, it was clear to me that this prop 8 was NOT going to pass. I don't understand why it should.

I am a Christian, I strongly believe in God and try to build a relationship with Him. I read the Bible (not regularly, but very intensely) and I really don't understand why Christians of CA are so concerned about same sex marriage. If the government or the law was imposing that on churches, I would understand the movement. But this is just a civic right we are talking about here. This is allowing gay couple to be married in the eyes of the law, not in the eyes of the church (cause I don't want to say in the eyes of God since I don't know anything about that).

I gotta confess I have got my fair share of dilemma with homosexuality. I am not exactly celebrating it. I still have a hard time seeing it as something normal. My religion does affect my conception of norms so it's kind of logical that I don't find it normal. It is true that the Bible says "You shall not lie in bed with someone of the same sex". But It also says "You shall not partake in arts" (arts being considered as evil), "You shall submit to your husband" (and we all know that time has past, unless a woman wants to submit to her man) and many other things that Christians and non Christians alike do. I'm a sucker for arts and the Lord knows ain't no way I can submit to a man! So maybe in the eyes of God, I'm like a homosexual. Now if people who hate arts had a prop to ban arts, would it be voted? It would sound ridiculous right?

Like someone else mentioned above, gay marriage has nothing to do with heterosexuals. It doesn't affect their lives in any way (in fact let me correct that, it can only affect their lives -in a good way- if someone they love is gay). So what's our problem? Christians? Straights? What's going on? There was a time Christians (protestants, catholics, evangelists, mormons, etc.) where persecuted and deprived of rights. What is it that today, you are the persecutors for another minority group? Does Christianity and condemnation work together? Can't we allow fellow human beings to have the same rights as us? A gay person cannot visit their partner in the hospital, share insurance, inherit their partner's property when they die or any other right married couple have just because you don't like who they are in love with (yeah, not just having sex with)?

Man, that's messed up. If we were able to elect a black man this year, because of his vision, not in spite of his skin color, why can't we let people who are different than us have the same right as us? We are all the same, we are all one. It doesn't matter who we are in a relationship with. We all deserve the same right under THE LAW!!!

Peace and ONE Love!!!

--K1

[Vanessa]

Same sex marriage is not equal to the same discrimnation as interacial marriage. I'm highly offended by this. i am a child of an interacial narraige, and I recently got marriage interaicially. There's is NO SIMILARITY. STOP USING THAT CARD. GAYS ARE NOT A RACE, IT'S A LIFESTYLE that they have chosen and nobody has taken that right away. They shouldn't have the same title as a straight couple. If homosexuals don't believe in the Bible they shouldn't want to get married anyways.. don't you know it's a religious covenant. Call it something else and not marriage please..

[Staff]

If it is wrong to deny Gays the "right" to love one another, why don't we let Pedophiles have the "right" to love little kids too? Seems like we must all HATE pedophiles since we don't let them do whatever they want?

We should just let the whole world go to pot, because some people don't know how to exercise their rights.

[someguy]

god has no say in the law.