Proposition 8: Let the spin begin

Proposition 8, which bans gay marriage, is leading -- but definitely still in play. But the pro-Proposition 8 people are already feeling like victors. And some Republicans, looking for a victory on a tough night, are joining in. The view from the Yes-on-8 side:

"We caused Californians to rethink this issue," Proposition 8 strategist Jeff Flint said. Early in the campaign, he noted, polls showed the measure trailing by 17 points. "I think the voters were thinking, well, if it makes them happy, why shouldn't we let gay couples get married? And I think we made them realize that there are broader implications to society and particularly the children when you make that fundamental change that's at the core of how society is organized, which is marriage."

The anti-Proposition 8 forces are still hoping the numbers turn around. "You decided to live your life out loud. You fell in love and you said 'I do.' Tonight, we await a verdict," San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom said, speaking to a roaring crowd. "I'm crossing my fingers."

-- Shelby Grad

Photo: Paul Sakuma/Associated Press

Comments

[Truth]

HETEROSEXUAL DICTATORSHIP "votes" to eliminate gay people's rights in 4 states. Haterosexuals in Florida, Arizona and California ripped away gay people's right to marry instead dictating all marriages mush be haterosexual. In Arkansas hateros eliminated gay people's right to be foster parents (even after ever poll said it would be a landslide in the other direction).

What other rights will gay people lose in the next election because of the heterosexual dictatorship?

[Daniel Burosh]

Sadly, it was the overwhelming support for prop 8 in the black community is what put Prop 8 over the top. (Whites slightly opposed it, and Hispanics split.) I know you'll delete this comment, but this still has to be said: Blacks still have quite a bit to learn about bigotry. And it's too bad Obama dodged the issue. I still supported him, but I find his rhetoric about 'inclusion' pretty empty.

[AnonCoward]

I don't know if anyone should take it as a victory yet--~2MM mail ballots that tend to break against prop 8. Besides, with tensions this high on both sides, anything under ~50,000 votes and one side will call for a recount. And either side will be sure to be back in a few years if they lose. Supreme court will have to rule on this soon enough.

[Charles E. Martin]

I hope Prop8 is defeated. I am 100% in favor of extending rights to all of our people, regardless of their orientation. I see these people (gays), and I think- "There but for the grace of God, go I". Permanent relationships wil help stem the spread of AIDS. Good luck to them.

[Californian]

Today I am proud to be an American again, but ashamed to be a Californian.

[Frank]

Congratulations America for electing a President who sees nothing wrong with throwing live babies in the trash!
There are bad times ahead for America!

[Mark]

Discrimination is live and well and still living in America. Maybe someday the dream where all Americans are treated equally will come true. That day is not today.

[Eric]

Memo to Gavin Newsome: Whether you like it or not, Marriage is between one man and one woman. Garriage is different and will never be the same, whether you like it or not. You can uncross your fingers now - your political career is over.

[Barbara McDonald]

What Daniel said. I'm a white heterosexual older woman living in NC. I was born in California and grew up there; I still consider it home.

Although I am exhilarated by the presidential win, I am saddened by my native state's vote against justice and fairness for people who are born to love and live with a partner of the same sex. The distortions of fact that were spread by the pro-prop-8 believers once again leave our "different" brothers and sisters outside the circle of cultural acceptance.

Now that we have done what some people believed was impossible -- elected a black man as president (who, aside from being black, is intelligent, prudent, and visionary) -- we must begin working again to entitle same-sex couples as legal marrieds.

[R J M]

The day a government is allowed to intervene in the basic civil rights of mankind (hetero or homosexual) is the day that we spit on the glory and grace that founded this country. Defeat of Prop * is not only a spiteful reminder of the second class society some people live for but dare do I ever wish my country to direct its resources. If you dont like gays... move along. If you think you are better, move to Singapore. Hell, youll even pay less taxes.

The Statue of Liberty should add one more line to its scroll : Bigots not welcome!

[David]

Can someone please tell me what his religious beliefs have to do with my rights as an American? I haven't heard a convincing answer yet.

[American]

Sound judgment prevails despite the state's liberal leanings. That speaks volumes. My faith in California has been restored.

California - and America - have spoken.

[MARVIN]

This is a sad day for the nation. Why can't we find some better people to run for President. Not a very good selection this election or the last 4 elections.

I hope prop. 8 wins, ban same sex marriage everywhere. There are no rights
here, Marriage is between a man and a woman.

[Honor]

Deviant behaviour, such as homosexuality, can never qualify for the noble status of Marriage. Marriage is a holy union of Man and Woman which insures the survival of the human race.

[Agent of Chaos]

To Supporters of Prop 8: Congratulations!

To them I ask, what are you going to do for an encore?

Book burning?

Pink triangles?

Camps?

Ovens?

[misanthropicus]

Considering the LA Times' reknown integrity and non-partisanship, I expect soon an editorial headline like: "To All The Californian Yahoos Who Voted For Measure #8"... followed by a cascade of invectives...

[Questionmark]

I'm a real, true-red conservative. That means I believe that judges cannot be allowed to conjure up fundemental rights in the State Constitutions from thin air, --which they certainly did last Spring. But it also means that I believe that everyone's personal life is their own business, --certainly not a concern of the government -- and I would fight for an open right to marry as fiercely as any "activist" in SF. I am very disappointed that California voters believe that discriminating against gays in marriage is the right thing to do. Further, I believe that what pushed Prop. 8 over the top was a lingering resentment against judges who fabricate rights when there is no historical or rational legal argument that they exist. By doing this,the CA Sup. Ct. drove voters to rise up in resentment, and let to the passage of this bigoted Cont. Amend. In this case, I am fully, 100% behind the position of the left. When will the clueless Liberals learn that one step forward on divisive social measures through the Courts usually means two steps back due to the natural resentment created when unelected judges impose their view of how things should be instead of leaving it to the people and their representitives. By doing this, you have now set us back at least 20 years -- that is the earliest we will be able to get this idiotic Constitutional Amendment off the books.

[me]

It is sad to hear everyone talk about how homosexuals should not be able to marry. In a country that has battled discrimination in so many ways, it is amazing to see that peopel are still so small minded. Whatever happened to separation of church and state? There is absolutely no grounds to banning gay marriage that extends beyond religion. If we cannot have religion in our schools why in the world are we able to have it in every aspect of our government. Who are you people to judge the lives of others and make decisions on what they can and cannot do. I believe that in itself is going against what your religion teaches. It is not our jobs to dictate everyone elses lives or judge them. Homosexual people want to have the same rights as everyone else and be able to marry and adopt and be foster parents, and they should have every right to do so. It truely makes you ashamed in a sense to be a part of a country that is recognized for its freedom and greatness. A country that despite that, finds it okay oppress certain groups because they are living life the way they want to.

[Angela]

America made history on No 4th! However, Some of our restless Californian's are stuck in a box. What kind of box...I can't call it. However, with change comes progress and to have some heads so far buried to take us back to where you may feel "BLACKS" are little of nothing and that "GAY" equals AIDS...there needs to be not only some grassroots up front and personal education on what the real deal is, those living in a glass house...shouldn't throw stones. Being in your personal box; is your choice, but the ways of the past will get you nowhere. Broaden your outlook on life and stop placing people in corners where you think they might fit for your intent and purposes! Are you the one who is quick to say..."some of my closest friends are BLACK or GAY"? Then when need be stab us dead in the back, because your hatred does't allow you the BOLDNESS to say it not to the weakest of the lot but the strongest; and in my heart that would be all of us! No matter the complexion of ones skin, the preference of a friends partner or if we have a mental or physical disability we are here to stay! Hatred has got to go...take a deep look in the mirror; better yet your soul.

[Andrew]

We can never underestimate the hatred and sadistic cruelty that most Americans feel towards others.

This is an electoral cross-burning.

[Barack]

To those that think gay marriage would stem the spread of aids, try again. If anything, it spreads it. It creates a delusion of safety for some. Men have always been the most challenged when it comes to fidelity. Figure it out. Two fidelity challenged people don't make for a safe union. It is common knowledge among gay men that fidelity is not defined as no extracurricular activity from time to time. Fidelity is just coming home after the next tryst. Its acceptable.

[OCHomo]

Memo to Eric at 4:05 AM: look at the Presidential voting results from California; statewide, Obama took over 60% of the vote according to the current count. While gay marriage is admittedly a divisive issue, the state as a whole may be more progressive than you think (or want). Newsom may not be departing the state quite so soon. And as for the gay marriage issue, look how much closer this race was than Prop 22. 61% of CA voted in favor of that proposition, right now we're sitting at around 52% in favor of Prop 8. Minds are changing as more people stop relying on old prejudices or something someone at their church told them to think. We'll get there...

[Grant Gochin]

Discrimination, hate and lies were preached from the pulpits of the Catholic Church, the Mormon Church and the Fundamentalist Christian Churches. The stupid and ignorant who have no means of thinking for themselves listened to the lies spewed by their religious leaders and voted to amend our constitution to include hate. Civilized people need to understand the evils of religious mindlessness and we need to enforce the separation of church and state.

[Al Spencer]

Homosexuals (Oops, I suppose I should say Gays) were born into this society, which holds to Gods institution of marrigae being between a man and a woman. Why try to change it? You are able to do as you please. If you want certain rights, draw legal documents addressing that issue to provide for yourselves before hand. By the way, as far as Blacks are concerned (see previous comment), we didn't vote from a position of bigotry. Race is quite different from sexual preference.

[China Rider]

The underlying issue attendant to Prop 8, ( and the myriad homosexual "rights" policy and legal debates ), finds itself residing in a single word at the end of all paths and struggles: "Normal".

Nuance it any way you wish to, goodness knows the circumlocutions manufactured to get around it are labyrinthine, but the simple facts are that the homosexual lobbies in their various guises have long ago abandoned any pretext to seeking tolerance and acceptance of an "alternative lifestyle" and have opted instead to pursue nothing less than the perfect legal codification of homosexuality as "normal", and in no way legally discernable from the human species' heterosexual norm.

Society long ago now has made it clear to all but a very few fearful souls that it has little serious interest in the private lives of homosexuals any more than it does in the private lives of everyone else. The homosexual lobby has been so preposterously successful in this pursuit that it is literally illegal test people for AIDS without consent - and this for a transmittable disease that is always fatal.

A famous person once wrote, "You can't always get what you want, but if you try, sometimes, you get what you need." Gavin Newsome can take the biggest legal club in the world, grab the biggest public address system he can find, sneer in the face of as many as wish to endure his contempt as he may, and it will never, never, ever change the basic truth: homosexuals are just that - homosexuals. Nothing more, nothing less. And they will never be "just the same", never procreate, never be a sustainable "race". And they don't need to get married.

What homosexual couples need is the legal civil union contracts that permit them to inherit, share health care and other insurance benefits under legal contract, and to be accorded hospital visitation privileges granted family members or legal next of kin. This is an accommodation that both they and society at large can live with in harmony - as is evidenced in the number of states where such accommodations have already been extended by huge majorities of the electorate. It is not perfect, but there is not, and never will be, a perfect solution for every circumstance - or for those who refuse anything else.

[Steve]

The best place for a Child to have a happy stable life is with a mother and a father who lover each other. Let's make sure every child in the world understands that Marriage is the way to ensure that their children will have the greatest gift of all. A Mother and a Father. We kept both of those as oiur societal definition of a family today!! Great Day for California!!

[Holly]

Majority rule is not intended to have the power to take away people's civil or human rights. This is a very sad day in California, but I know that all these laws will be overturned when the US Constitiution is upheld. State constitutions can not override the US Constitition.

[Steven]

I agree with what Mark wrote.... Marriage is for man and woman, gays... sorry but it is not biblical, you can fool yourselfs by making your own like Mark said... garriage. and for AnonCoward to say ""There but for the grace of God, go I", 2 things... huh? that statement did not make sense no matter how many times i read it. God will not bless that, this is what he has to say about homosexual found in 1 corinthians 6:9-10: ASB version 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." So in closing, why should god bless or give his grace to something he condems? its like you just said "god please bless or give us grace to go out and commit sin".

[ronster]

The people are speaking. In America there is a thing called democracy. It is VERY close, but it seems that MORE people want to retain the idea that the word MARRIAGE is between ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN.

Clearly by the comments of this very blog, there is a lot of hate to go around... on BOTH sides.

YES on Prop 8 - Voting Any Other Way is UnNatural.

[Kimley]

As a homosexual you have the right to live any way you choose and nobody wants to take that right from you. BUT you do not have the right to change the definition of marriage. Sorry!!!

[Steven]

I have to agree with Agent of Chaos and PBJ, marriage was formed for MAN and WOMAN, not man and man or woman and woman. they can have something like garriage, but marriage is a holy bond, and most importantly it is biblical. example: (Ephesians 5:22-23)" "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it", he did not say: husbands, love your wife and/or husband." no he said husband love your wife, wife = woman, yes some will probably twist gods word around to try and justify it and say wife can also be a man. Sadly today people love to twist the words of God to justify or to make themselves feel better so they dont have to change.

[J. Kitchener]

"...at the core of how society is organized, which is marriage":

Are we to believe that social organization is based on marriage, all the way down? This shows either naivite, or blissful unawareness of social reality, or total misguidedness, or wishful thinking (possibly all of the above...)

[Pete Cosmos]

You can blame the Blacks, you can talk about misinformation, but people really aren't this stupid. BOTTOM LINE: Most of us do not want homosexual marriage. You can impune our motives and call us names and guess why we think that, but you don't know me, you don't know my mind. You tar and feather just like the bigots you accuse us to be.

No, I don't want it. Not in my state, not in my country. I have thoughtful, reasonable, and deep reasons why, but who cares? No matter what I say, you'll just call me a bigot and dismiss me. Go ahead, make my day.

[Gene F]

Im ashamed that over $70 million was wasted on this non issue. How many shelves at a food bank could have been filled or how many extra beds in a homeless shleter could have been created or how many extra school meals for needy children could have been provided? The list goes on. To those who supported 8, your time would have been better spent protesting the war for example where innocent people and our brave troops are dying every hour.

Im putting my faith in the Federal government to step in and provide some common sense and fairness much like it did in the '60s!

[Robert D.]

It's a sad irony that on a great night that white supremacy has appeared to be beaten back that heterosexual supremacy would rise up and take away rights from people who simply love each other and want to get married.

[Rocket 88]

Shame on you, California, for your bigotry and narrow-mindedness.

[Joe]

CONNECTICUT was a bright spot FOR equality last night. In rejecting a Constitutional Convention (PROP 1 in CT) Connecticut, in effect, CONFIRMED the RIGHT of its gay & lesbian citizens to MARRY. The Roman Catholic Church (by far the biggest church in CT) urged its members to vote "yes" - everyone in CT knew that Gay marriage was THE issue that supporters of a convention had in mind. Connecticut now joins its New England neighbor, Massachusetts, in ensuring marriage EQUALITY. It may take a while but I've got to believe that Californians (of ALL colors & ethnic backgrounds) will, someday, reverse this sad development: having now enshrined INEQUALITY in its Constitution.

[Robert Harper]

Questionmark: 5:40 a.m. poster

I am one of those clueless liberals who thinks you are 100% wrong about the courts. If I were black, and I am not; if I were a woman, and assuredly I am not -- ask my wife of 49 years -- I would be saying a prayer of gratitude to the Warren Court, the most forward thinking court in the past 100 years. My guess is that you don't like activist courts because they force you to admit you are wrong. Activist courts almost always reflect the angels of our better nature, something that politicians do not always do.

[bjl]

I am a single mother. My son is grown now. He is a successful, caring, responsible young man. I am so proud of him!

Supporters of Prop 8 justify their desire to legalize discrimination by saying that every child deserves a family. I agree. But then they go on to define "family" as being limited to "man and woman." I've got news for those folks: my son and I were and are a family. No wrong-headed constitutional amendment, and its disingenuous and hateful sponsors, will ever change that.

[JohnRJ]

There is a part of me that carries the template created by my mother and father, that a man and woman are "husband & wife" through the sanctity of marriage. It is imprinted on our psyches, representing normalcy and the 'natural order of things'. But there is also a part of me that realizes how selfish and phobic it is to deny the warmth of this ritualistic bond to those who don't fit my highly personal concept of marriage. I know several gays who I'm sure are very hurt by this choice of the voters. In this regard, we've made them second class citizens and de facto outcasts. I'm no more comfortable with seeing two men or two women kissing than most other heterosexuals. It goes against our genetically and hormonally imposed preferences. But I'm terribly disappointed that we haven't evolved beyond that deeply ingrained prejudice.

[James]

Unbelievable, all the people who rally around the flag and constantly talk about our "freedoms" and how we're "free" and how we live in a "free nation" have decided to eliminate these freedoms for a portion of our population.

Where is peoples autonomy? Who are these people to say who others can marry? I don't eliminate their right to attend whatever phoney-baloney church they want to go to.

You're all a bunch of jingoist knuckle-headed tools

[Toni]

Someone named Honor states above: "Marriage is a holy union of Man and Woman which insures the survival of the human race." So... do you believe that people like me who are infertile and had to adopt our children shouldn't be allowed to marry because we're not procreating? How about older people who are past childbearing age? Should they be prevented from remarrying? In the words of the Holly Near song: "I ain't afraid of your churches, I ain't afraid of your temples, I ain't afraid of your Jesus; I'm afraid of what you do in the name of your God."

[CA MFT]

It is sad to realize that the majority of Californians feel so insecure with themselves and their beliefs that they feel threatened by differences in others. Heterosexuals are already doing an excellent job of undermining marriage. As a heterosexual marriage and family therapist I have never seen any signs that lead me to believe that heterosexuals are any better at having healthy quality relationships than anyone else. When are we going to realize that insisting that one group is better and more deserving than another only leads to conflict and war? When we stop feeling superior to others, maybe we can learn to appreciate differences and live in peace.

[nosoupforyou]

I am a white heterosexual Jewish woman and a Republican. Yes, I really do exist.

I'm beyond thrilled that Obama will be our President. I might need to rethink my party affiliation. Lol.

I also voted against prop 8 and will be deeply saddened if it passes.

However, I would like to note that not being allowed to marry, while a large issue of civil rights and equality, should not be compared to gassings, mass murder and camps.

That is offensive.

[Chris Green]

Neither the right of children being put up for adoption to have both a father and a mother nor the right of a person to marry whomever they want, whenever they want, are constitutionaly guarenteed freedoms (for example, a 55 year woman cannot marry a 14 year old boy nor can a 40 year old man have 5 wives). These privileges have always been legislated according to what people think is in the long term interest of society.

However, I'm glad, that, in this case, the right of children to have both a father and a mother was given precedence (by the will of the people) over the right of a person to marry whoever they want.

A legel marriage is simply an agreement between the state, and two people (of opposite gender in CA) for the purposes of raising children, period. They don't have to love each other, they don't have to be attracted to each other. They DO have to take care of that kid and I think children will be much better served in environment with both genders. Regardless of your sexual orientation, race, or political views, anyone can sign up for that agreement, even if traditional marriage is the law in your state. That is equal protection under law. A homosexual person may not want to take part in such an agreement (although I hope many do if they want to raise children in CA), but that is his or her choice.

[Human Like You]

I have been with my partner for 4 years, and we have friends that have been together over 20 years. What gives bigots the right to tell us what rights we are entitled to ? Nothing. This is discrimmination written into State Constitutions. Those who voted for this should pray and ask God why their preachers and politicians tell them it is OK to deny their fellow citizens legal rights that they take for granted. The ability to conceive does not make you a good parent, a good spouse, or a good voter. Same sex couples will have to spend thousands of dollars to draft legal documents to guarantee the same rights and protections that a drunken straight couple in Las Vegas can get with a $55 marriage license. That is discrimmination pure and simple. You cannot dictate or legislate love. Love will triumph in the end.

[Anna]

Today is one of my happiest day finally we will have a president that will take care of our country. But sad but yet hopefull that Prop 8 will fail. Its is unfair to not allow all people no matter of there sexuallity marry. There are millions of married Gay and Lesbian couples at this moment who are very happy being married. Who gives you the right to remove that happiness. Anyways when have you ever heard of a Elemantary school teach children whom they can marry. What ignorant people are you to think that School will teach small children to marry same sex. That is a choice that one make when they are adults not as a small child in Elemantary school. Anyway Gays and Lesbian will remain together even if the Prop 8 wins or not. So it really does not matter....we will be happy no matter what happens at the end..

[Me]

Criminal capital punishment is entirely appropriate for the capital crime of sodomy.

Electric chair would be best.

On cable TV at high noon for nationwide broadcast.

It's Adam and Eve.

Not Adam and Steve.

[Kurt]

I personally believe gay people have a right to be just as miserable as everybody else.

[Davo]

To vote against the rights and personal happiness against someone else because they are simply not like you in a secret ballot is to be the coward of cowards.

The Prop 8 supporters had to lie repeatedly to pull this off, and everyone knows it. There is nothing REMOTELY CHRISTIAN about what you have done. Imagine if interracial marriage had been decided this way. Bigots, you have a lot to learn. until then, you are simply cowards who did the wrong thing.

[Wayne]

I'm severely disappointed that Proposition 8 is going down. I'm in love with 3 women and desperately want to marry all three. If marriage is defined as only between 1 man and 1 woman in California, what chance do I ever have?

Some of my friends in the group Siblings Marrying Siblings (SMS) are quite put out as well. Who do the tyrannous majority of 'breeders' think they are? How dare they deny me my right to marry the women I love or to deny my friends the right to marry their brothers and sisters.

The march for EQUAL RIGHTS for ALL will continue! Not just for those who want to define marriage as between "2 non-related people who love each other"!

[Nurro Denthyme]

This is disgusting.
Absolutely disgusting.

What is "marriage"? Is it universal and legal? If yes, then why doesn't it apply to all who wish to partake? Is it spiritual? If yes, then why should we allow the government to have a say, when for a very long time now we've claimed there should be a distinct separation of church and state?

Here's the bottom line for me, personally:
If you people have a problem with us just trying to be a little more like everyone else, why? Your creepy 2000-year-old tome has no place in this, for the bigots. For those with REAL reasons, as suggested by an individual in an above comment, please tell us, because I haven't seen anything but blind faith and religious regurgitation. Please speak so we can know better.

I know there are those contrary to this, but I for one view the situation like this: We don't want to become better. We just want to be as good as everyone else.We are the disabled kids on the bench at a basketball game, dreaming of being star players, when we know we'll never have the chance. And when someone proposes a disabled-only b-ball court, the next nest thing, so at least we can dream... It's shot down.

It hurts to be gay, America. Knowing that your genes won't pass on. Knowing you'll never have the joys and hardships of parenthood. Knowing that if you ever do find a connection with another person, it will never be the same, and others will only wish death on you. You've given us a problem. You've given us pain. You've taken our hope. You've taken away our only effort to try to be like you. And you haven't given us a way out. You've left us. We just want to be like you.

[Honesty]

I'm right with the realist here, how many millions of dollars were spent in pro or con of this proposition? Dollars that could of gone to way more productive causes that save lives. It's a shame that we still have to have these petty fights over who has what marriage rights. ITS A SHAME, that the only way to get peoples lazy asses out of bed and participate in some sort of cause is over this stupid proposition. Why don't people see? Why doesn't the government see? These are not the major problems we should be spending so much money on, people are suffering severely, some dying. Forget this, give them the marriage rights so we can move along and perhaps find the "strength" (ohhh the strength) to actually make a difference in our lives. Enough Said.

[Corey]

Barack: Yes ; Prop 8: Yes. The American people have spoken and today is a great day. I think people's concept of bigotry is so one-sided. Why persecute those who believe marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman? At this point, I am fine with allowing similar benefits to be awarded for same-sex partners, but don't call it marriage! People aren't being bigots - they just feel that the institution of marriage - something very sacred, developed by God and important to them is being re-written. Life is all about choices. Let people choose HOW they want to live. But don't call people a bigot if they are expressing an opinion that is important to THEM. Let's not use the term bigot loosely when it is convenient for us.

[Dave]

Gays will always have the right to be whining idiots

[Mark]

I am grateful every day that I am not Christian. I have studied two millenia of their self-righteous intolerance resulting in the torture and killing of those who do not heel to their social preferences. They are still at it to the best of their ability. In a country where freedom of religion is supposed to be a fundamental right, my life is constantly assaulted by their political agenda, which is rooted in hypocritical, fear-based, hate laced self-gratifications. Be like them, or be damned to suffering by their intolerance.

The life of spirit, of communion with the great universal consciousness from which our existence arises, has nothing to do with a grasping desire to control the lives of others. Christians can only find redemption, it seems, in persecuting those who are not like them. But then, that is the very root of their own beginnings, a pain-rooted psychology that has persisted through centuries of Catholic and Protestant spite fests down through fantastical 19th century inventions of which Mormonism is only one.

I may be gay and constitutionally enshrined now as a second class citizen, but I will go to my grave better off at heart in than anyone who voted yes on Prop 2.

[David Geffeney]

This is a bit of a travesty. To think that the sacred vows are limited to a sound traditional union between a man and woman is troublesome. We need this no on 8 victory so that we can then begin to add unions between adults and kids, relatives, and polygamists too. Finally we can land on my equal rights to marry my kangaroo. I love my kangaroo.

So will the gays be allowed to continue using "domestic partnership" to gain all the legal rights of married people? My gay friends, just apply for domestic partnership to get the rights.

I guess you god loving people out there can be smug with your victory. You should be ashamed that you don't allow us abominations to enact our desires and get to call it marriage.

Don't mind the gays for stealing the rainbow from you fundamentalist Christians either.

[David Geffeney]

This is a bit of a travesty. To think that the sacred vows are limited to a sound traditional union between a man and woman is troublesome. We need this no on 8 victory so that we can then begin to add unions between adults and kids, relatives, and polygamists too. Finally we can land on my equal rights to marry my kangaroo. I love my kangaroo.

So will the gays be allowed to continue using "domestic partnership" to gain all the legal rights of married people? My gay friends, just apply for domestic partnership to get the rights.

I guess you god loving people out there can be smug with your victory. You should be ashamed that you don't allow us abominations to enact our desires and get to call it marriage.

Don't mind the gays for stealing the rainbow from you fundamentalist Christians either.

[katherine]

Prop 8 disgusts me. Minorities have been judged and ridiculed and denied rights since the beginning of time. However, the majority of these laws against minorities have been lifted in recent years and the fact that this one hasn't been is absolutely appalling. Whoever created this proposition is the biggest bigot, closed minded, unfeeling person I have ever heard of, and honestly, like many priests is probably gay themselves and doesn't know how to deal. And kids should be kept out of this A) The people creating this prop probably don't associate themselves with gay people so how would their kids even know about any of this? B) Kids need to learn all lifestyles that exist in the world. Not be given some one sided story, that if they are gay would make them feel like there is something wrong with them. I really could go on for hours if I didn't have to go to work. I'll be back to post more later tho. NO ON PROP 8!!!!!

[fern]

Vive la canaille!
Chuck Colson great politician from the Nixon era, convicted felon for his part in the watergate, new born christian and friend of Tony Perkins. Perkins who doesn't care about who is president good or bad as long as the power of the church remains. As one Roman catholic pope publicly stated, "the Vatican is no democracy" and so are all the churches, if you're not a believer, you're a heretic. The government allowing priests to openly influence politics in their sermons exhorting people to vote yes on prop 8, just like the immans and mollahs in Pakistan, Afganistan, Irak exhorting their people to kill Americans.
This is the death of democracy as the world has known it.
If Obama cannot redress this situation I see a bleak future for America and the rest of the world.

[Randy]

No hate, no bitterness, just common sense. A fair democratic process has been exercised and the result is a constitutional amendment. There is no need for finger pointing or fault finding. This is why we have a democratic government and not a junta, politburo, dictator, or tyrant.

[Craig]

Prop 8 is not about people having the right to be maried, it is about children having the right to have balance in their homes and for people to have the right to teach their children what they want and not give contol over to the state.

[Craig]

Prop 8 is not about people having the right to be maried, it is about children having the right to have balance in their homes and for people to have the right to teach their children what they want and not give contol over to the state.

[Grandblvd03]

If they would have promoted civil unions instead of gay marriage it might have passed, but civil unions wasn't good enough. All or nothing = nothing.

[Randy]

Well we told King George he was immoral. What gave us that right. The Bible. You believe the Bible and what it says or you don't. Those who don't well what do they believe in. I'll tell what and the only premise that is possible without the Bible and that is "might makes right". Whose might and whose right. The Govm't that whose. That will make us all slaves again just like under King George. Those who vilify and call Bible believers names can always go to the Bible and point there where it says feed the hungry, you are your brothers keeper, be humble, the golden rule. To those who do not believe the Bible where can I go to point to and say this is what you believe and how you should be. Do I point to the corrupt Govm't? Do I point to you and ask do you believe such and such and that’s ok cause you feel or believe it. Without the Bible for moral judgment then it's just like it was when Jesus came to earth it's the Romans running things and might makes right. Jesus had to die and rise from the grave to change us and wake us up to the fact that every human is loved by God and you or your Govm't do not have the right to abuse a fellow human being. The only justification for civil rights it the bible. On the web what the Bible says about homosexuality http://church-of-christ.org/homosexuality.htm As Christians we must preach and teach what the Bible says not what we feel or think. Sin is Sin.
http://GospelVenice.com

[Nathan]

The United States Government needs to support people who are willing to take the responsibility to raise children... where do we expect our next generation to come from?

I do not oppose Civil Unions, but I see that as a country we need an institution that applies specifically to people who are willing and able to have children and bring future citizens into this world.

Marriage is that institution... We cannot apply the same title to two people who cannot produce the resource of human life. This needs to be recognized... and it has been in California.

[Linda Hurd]

While it is clear, many in the United States no longer believe the Bible is the Word of God, it does not make it so. God is God and will judge the earth whether anyone believes it or not.

God truly loves those who practice homosexuality, but he does call men having sex with men and women having sex with women detestable. See Leviticus 18:22. It's not because He doesn't love people who do these things, it's because He knows it is destructive for the individuals, for families, for children and ultimately for nations.

I pray America will wake up before God brings His judgement on us as He will certainly give us what we want. Ezek 22:31 states "Thus, I have poured out my indignation on them, I have consumed them with the fire of My wrath; THEIR WAY I HAVE BROUGHT UPON THEIR HEADS", declares the Lord God.

[Bill]

I'm not from California, so I haven't been exposed the the media blitz and emotional appeals from both sides of this issue.

I am a concerned American and am even more concerned after reading these blogs. I am not a bigot. I do not hate anyone. I am religious, but I am not a fanatic nor do I believe that anyone who knows me could consider me one.

I would have voted for Prop 8. This would not have been because of intolerance, bigotry or hate. It is because I believe that marriage is not a man-made institution. I "...believe marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children."

I believe that when we attempt to redefine something so fundamental to society as the family, that we are tampering with things beyond mere mortal wisdom. The line from Fiddler on the Roof comes to mind: "Pull out a thread,,. where does it end? Where does it end?"

Similarly, I believe that the earth is a divine creation and I would vote for measures which preserve the environment.

I'm sure that some people voted for prop 8 were motivated by hate. I want those who voted against Prop 8 to know that some of those who voted for it were motivated by other principles. These may or may not be principles which are in your database.

[Randy]

The Government tried to legislate immorality. The Government cannot legislate morality and/or DOH! immorality. You can't force morality or immorality on a people unless your Stalin, Hitler, Mao, etc. You must respect Catholics, Protestants, Jews and Moslems and their beliefs. This should never have been an issue as the Gays didn't invent marriage. Let the Gays invent their own thing and leave the rest of society alone and have some respect.

[Henry]

Thank you California. Proposition 8 shows exactly what our president-elect has tried to instill in the American citizenry, YES we can. When the courts try to overrule the people voice, YES we can tell them what we think. YES we can voice our opinion, despite our elected officials say. YES we can make a difference in the streets and on the phones. YES we can define marriage between one man and one woman.

[Anonymous Lesbian]

Well I'm so SORRY to hear so many HATEFUL PEOPLE in America!! Im Glad to be an american on this beautiful DAY!! OBAMA has made History and I am glad to be an AFRICAN AMERICAN on this beautiful AMERICAN DAY! I'm also proud to be a LESBIAN of Chicago and if we don't get marriage we will have civil unions....OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH IM PROUD TO SAY "YES WE CAN" And "YES WE DID " OBAMA/BIDEN 08

be mad!!!! your President is Black and he is here to reconcile Rep and Dem GET WITH IT!

[CA MFT]

I am curious here. Will banning gay marriage prevent gays from having and raising kids? To what extent will you go to prove that people are 100% men and 100% women before allowing a license to be issued? Does this mean that someone who was genetically born XXY will be banned from marrying anyone? Haven't any of you "Christians" ever heard of the Golden Rule? No limits or demands were placed on you; how can you justify putting limits and demands on others? The scare tactics used by the Yes on 8 fanatics were ridiculous. Has any teacher ever told any child who he or she should marry? What if we outlaw Christianity, based on all the pain and suffering caused in its name over countless generations?

[Randy]

"Liberals" like to think of themselves as "intellegent". Name calling and using flawed logic is not intellegent. Accusations against Christians killing people in the name of God: The athiest governments of Stalin, Hilter, Mao and Poll Pot killed more peope in the 20th century than all the Christians, Jews, and Moslems have ever killed in the entire history of mankind. Throw away the Bible and then all you have left is athiests and might makes right. If your mighty then you can do what you want. Where is the credo the book the written beliefs that athiests use to jusify calling someone a bigot or calling someone wrong. Where is their definition of right and wrong and/or bigotry? Where do they have it? Do they have it written down somewhere or are they more like weeds growing wild. What are they relying on to justify what they say. Their own selves I guess which if we have that kind of society then we have anarchy and if we don't have the Bible with moral tenets then we are left with the corrupt Government having the final say on things and those with the most might to decide what is right. We must try to be better not worse and grow and if you go athiest thats been done and you clearly see the results. Murder mahame and slavery.

http://SCBCVenice.org

[Lightwing1]

To Corey:

If, as you assert, marriage is sacred and religious, then why should the state have any say in it at all? The reality is that the state does define marriage through law. Laws of this country should not be based on religious beliefs. If so, then which religious ideals should they be based on? Whose religion gets to set precedent? Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hare Krishna, Scientology?

There is a reason for separation of church and state and it is based on reason, not spiritual subjectivity. The Puritans came to this land because they wanted to escape religious persecution - by those who wished to coerce their beliefs on them. They wanted a place to live freely and practice their beliefs as they chose. This country was founded on those very principles.

So now you are saying that your religious beliefs trump the civil rights of those you disagree with? You are the very scourge the Puritans were fleeing. You enjoy the benefits of the forward thinking of our founding fathers. Why cannot all citizens enjoy this benefit - because your religion says not?

I pity you and all who voted for this heinous piece of discrimination. You will not prevail. Freedom for ALL will win the day no matter how many years it takes, no matter how many times you fight against it. Cherry picking civil rights will not stand. The God I believe in loves all of his/her children - INDISCRIMINATELY.