Proposition 8: Let the spin begin

Proposition 8, which bans gay marriage, is leading -- but definitely still in play. But the pro-Proposition 8 people are already feeling like victors. And some Republicans, looking for a victory on a tough night, are joining in. The view from the Yes-on-8 side:

"We caused Californians to rethink this issue," Proposition 8 strategist Jeff Flint said. Early in the campaign, he noted, polls showed the measure trailing by 17 points. "I think the voters were thinking, well, if it makes them happy, why shouldn't we let gay couples get married? And I think we made them realize that there are broader implications to society and particularly the children when you make that fundamental change that's at the core of how society is organized, which is marriage."

The anti-Proposition 8 forces are still hoping the numbers turn around. "You decided to live your life out loud. You fell in love and you said 'I do.' Tonight, we await a verdict," San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom said, speaking to a roaring crowd. "I'm crossing my fingers."

-- Shelby Grad

Photo: Paul Sakuma/Associated Press

Comments

[Truth]

HETEROSEXUAL DICTATORSHIP "votes" to eliminate gay people's rights in 4 states. Haterosexuals in Florida, Arizona and California ripped away gay people's right to marry instead dictating all marriages mush be haterosexual. In Arkansas hateros eliminated gay people's right to be foster parents (even after ever poll said it would be a landslide in the other direction).

What other rights will gay people lose in the next election because of the heterosexual dictatorship?

[Daniel Burosh]

Sadly, it was the overwhelming support for prop 8 in the black community is what put Prop 8 over the top. (Whites slightly opposed it, and Hispanics split.) I know you'll delete this comment, but this still has to be said: Blacks still have quite a bit to learn about bigotry. And it's too bad Obama dodged the issue. I still supported him, but I find his rhetoric about 'inclusion' pretty empty.

[AnonCoward]

I don't know if anyone should take it as a victory yet--~2MM mail ballots that tend to break against prop 8. Besides, with tensions this high on both sides, anything under ~50,000 votes and one side will call for a recount. And either side will be sure to be back in a few years if they lose. Supreme court will have to rule on this soon enough.

[Charles E. Martin]

I hope Prop8 is defeated. I am 100% in favor of extending rights to all of our people, regardless of their orientation. I see these people (gays), and I think- "There but for the grace of God, go I". Permanent relationships wil help stem the spread of AIDS. Good luck to them.

[Californian]

Today I am proud to be an American again, but ashamed to be a Californian.

[Frank]

Congratulations America for electing a President who sees nothing wrong with throwing live babies in the trash!
There are bad times ahead for America!

[Mark]

Discrimination is live and well and still living in America. Maybe someday the dream where all Americans are treated equally will come true. That day is not today.

[Eric]

Memo to Gavin Newsome: Whether you like it or not, Marriage is between one man and one woman. Garriage is different and will never be the same, whether you like it or not. You can uncross your fingers now - your political career is over.

[Barbara McDonald]

What Daniel said. I'm a white heterosexual older woman living in NC. I was born in California and grew up there; I still consider it home.

Although I am exhilarated by the presidential win, I am saddened by my native state's vote against justice and fairness for people who are born to love and live with a partner of the same sex. The distortions of fact that were spread by the pro-prop-8 believers once again leave our "different" brothers and sisters outside the circle of cultural acceptance.

Now that we have done what some people believed was impossible -- elected a black man as president (who, aside from being black, is intelligent, prudent, and visionary) -- we must begin working again to entitle same-sex couples as legal marrieds.

[R J M]

The day a government is allowed to intervene in the basic civil rights of mankind (hetero or homosexual) is the day that we spit on the glory and grace that founded this country. Defeat of Prop * is not only a spiteful reminder of the second class society some people live for but dare do I ever wish my country to direct its resources. If you dont like gays... move along. If you think you are better, move to Singapore. Hell, youll even pay less taxes.

The Statue of Liberty should add one more line to its scroll : Bigots not welcome!

[David]

Can someone please tell me what his religious beliefs have to do with my rights as an American? I haven't heard a convincing answer yet.

[American]

Sound judgment prevails despite the state's liberal leanings. That speaks volumes. My faith in California has been restored.

California - and America - have spoken.

[MARVIN]

This is a sad day for the nation. Why can't we find some better people to run for President. Not a very good selection this election or the last 4 elections.

I hope prop. 8 wins, ban same sex marriage everywhere. There are no rights
here, Marriage is between a man and a woman.

[Honor]

Deviant behaviour, such as homosexuality, can never qualify for the noble status of Marriage. Marriage is a holy union of Man and Woman which insures the survival of the human race.

[Agent of Chaos]

To Supporters of Prop 8: Congratulations!

To them I ask, what are you going to do for an encore?

Book burning?

Pink triangles?

Camps?

Ovens?

[misanthropicus]

Considering the LA Times' reknown integrity and non-partisanship, I expect soon an editorial headline like: "To All The Californian Yahoos Who Voted For Measure #8"... followed by a cascade of invectives...

[Questionmark]

I'm a real, true-red conservative. That means I believe that judges cannot be allowed to conjure up fundemental rights in the State Constitutions from thin air, --which they certainly did last Spring. But it also means that I believe that everyone's personal life is their own business, --certainly not a concern of the government -- and I would fight for an open right to marry as fiercely as any "activist" in SF. I am very disappointed that California voters believe that discriminating against gays in marriage is the right thing to do. Further, I believe that what pushed Prop. 8 over the top was a lingering resentment against judges who fabricate rights when there is no historical or rational legal argument that they exist. By doing this,the CA Sup. Ct. drove voters to rise up in resentment, and let to the passage of this bigoted Cont. Amend. In this case, I am fully, 100% behind the position of the left. When will the clueless Liberals learn that one step forward on divisive social measures through the Courts usually means two steps back due to the natural resentment created when unelected judges impose their view of how things should be instead of leaving it to the people and their representitives. By doing this, you have now set us back at least 20 years -- that is the earliest we will be able to get this idiotic Constitutional Amendment off the books.

[me]

It is sad to hear everyone talk about how homosexuals should not be able to marry. In a country that has battled discrimination in so many ways, it is amazing to see that peopel are still so small minded. Whatever happened to separation of church and state? There is absolutely no grounds to banning gay marriage that extends beyond religion. If we cannot have religion in our schools why in the world are we able to have it in every aspect of our government. Who are you people to judge the lives of others and make decisions on what they can and cannot do. I believe that in itself is going against what your religion teaches. It is not our jobs to dictate everyone elses lives or judge them. Homosexual people want to have the same rights as everyone else and be able to marry and adopt and be foster parents, and they should have every right to do so. It truely makes you ashamed in a sense to be a part of a country that is recognized for its freedom and greatness. A country that despite that, finds it okay oppress certain groups because they are living life the way they want to.

[Angela]

America made history on No 4th! However, Some of our restless Californian's are stuck in a box. What kind of box...I can't call it. However, with change comes progress and to have some heads so far buried to take us back to where you may feel "BLACKS" are little of nothing and that "GAY" equals AIDS...there needs to be not only some grassroots up front and personal education on what the real deal is, those living in a glass house...shouldn't throw stones. Being in your personal box; is your choice, but the ways of the past will get you nowhere. Broaden your outlook on life and stop placing people in corners where you think they might fit for your intent and purposes! Are you the one who is quick to say..."some of my closest friends are BLACK or GAY"? Then when need be stab us dead in the back, because your hatred does't allow you the BOLDNESS to say it not to the weakest of the lot but the strongest; and in my heart that would be all of us! No matter the complexion of ones skin, the preference of a friends partner or if we have a mental or physical disability we are here to stay! Hatred has got to go...take a deep look in the mirror; better yet your soul.

[Andrew]

We can never underestimate the hatred and sadistic cruelty that most Americans feel towards others.

This is an electoral cross-burning.

[Barack]

To those that think gay marriage would stem the spread of aids, try again. If anything, it spreads it. It creates a delusion of safety for some. Men have always been the most challenged when it comes to fidelity. Figure it out. Two fidelity challenged people don't make for a safe union. It is common knowledge among gay men that fidelity is not defined as no extracurricular activity from time to time. Fidelity is just coming home after the next tryst. Its acceptable.

[OCHomo]

Memo to Eric at 4:05 AM: look at the Presidential voting results from California; statewide, Obama took over 60% of the vote according to the current count. While gay marriage is admittedly a divisive issue, the state as a whole may be more progressive than you think (or want). Newsom may not be departing the state quite so soon. And as for the gay marriage issue, look how much closer this race was than Prop 22. 61% of CA voted in favor of that proposition, right now we're sitting at around 52% in favor of Prop 8. Minds are changing as more people stop relying on old prejudices or something someone at their church told them to think. We'll get there...

[Grant Gochin]

Discrimination, hate and lies were preached from the pulpits of the Catholic Church, the Mormon Church and the Fundamentalist Christian Churches. The stupid and ignorant who have no means of thinking for themselves listened to the lies spewed by their religious leaders and voted to amend our constitution to include hate. Civilized people need to understand the evils of religious mindlessness and we need to enforce the separation of church and state.

[Al Spencer]

Homosexuals (Oops, I suppose I should say Gays) were born into this society, which holds to Gods institution of marrigae being between a man and a woman. Why try to change it? You are able to do as you please. If you want certain rights, draw legal documents addressing that issue to provide for yourselves before hand. By the way, as far as Blacks are concerned (see previous comment), we didn't vote from a position of bigotry. Race is quite different from sexual preference.

[China Rider]

The underlying issue attendant to Prop 8, ( and the myriad homosexual "rights" policy and legal debates ), finds itself residing in a single word at the end of all paths and struggles: "Normal".

Nuance it any way you wish to, goodness knows the circumlocutions manufactured to get around it are labyrinthine, but the simple facts are that the homosexual lobbies in their various guises have long ago abandoned any pretext to seeking tolerance and acceptance of an "alternative lifestyle" and have opted instead to pursue nothing less than the perfect legal codification of homosexuality as "normal", and in no way legally discernable from the human species' heterosexual norm.

Society long ago now has made it clear to all but a very few fearful souls that it has little serious interest in the private lives of homosexuals any more than it does in the private lives of everyone else. The homosexual lobby has been so preposterously successful in this pursuit that it is literally illegal test people for AIDS without consent - and this for a transmittable disease that is always fatal.

A famous person once wrote, "You can't always get what you want, but if you try, sometimes, you get what you need." Gavin Newsome can take the biggest legal club in the world, grab the biggest public address system he can find, sneer in the face of as many as wish to endure his contempt as he may, and it will never, never, ever change the basic truth: homosexuals are just that - homosexuals. Nothing more, nothing less. And they will never be "just the same", never procreate, never be a sustainable "race". And they don't need to get married.

What homosexual couples need is the legal civil union contracts that permit them to inherit, share health care and other insurance benefits under legal contract, and to be accorded hospital visitation privileges granted family members or legal next of kin. This is an accommodation that both they and society at large can live with in harmony - as is evidenced in the number of states where such accommodations have already been extended by huge majorities of the electorate. It is not perfect, but there is not, and never will be, a perfect solution for every circumstance - or for those who refuse anything else.