Prop. 8 causes Westside traffic misery

Hundreds of people protesting on the Westside over the passage of Prop. 8 are causing gridlock in a part of L.A. already famous for bad traffic.

The Times' Tami Abdollah reports that the gridlock is gripping streets around the Westside. She said it took her a half-hour to go a mile. She said most major streets -- including Sepulveda Boulevard, Barrington Avenue and Olympic Boulevard -- are jammed. Side streets around the area are also clogged with cars. There is major congestion through Beverly Hills as well.

Details:

• Portions of Santa Monica Boulevard are closed between Beverly Glen and Westwood boulevards.

• Portions of Westwood Boulevard are also closed north of Santa Monica Boulevard.

• Portions of Ohio Avenue are closed east of Westwood Boulevard.

• The closures have caused major congestion on Wilshire Boulevard, a part of which was closed.

• The eastbound Wilshire Boulevard offramp from the 405 Freeway is closed.

These closures change as the protesters move through. Some streets open then close again.

--Shelby Grad

Photo: Barbara Davidson / Los Angeles Times

Comments

[Randy]

How much will this cost? Why do these protesters have the right to spend city and state money by walking in the street and blocking traffic. Why should commuters be inconvenienced in this way? Wasn't the election expensive enough?

[steve]

the more i see these protests the more and more firm and stronger I feel we need to protect marriage. I will do all I can. it is a moral issue not a civil issue.

[susan]

Acting selfish in this way is NOT helping their cause. They didn't like the results of the voting process and how bring misery to the streets -- many people are saying they're acting like spoiled brats, plus wasting our police resources, and causing people major delays in going home to their families, plus in case of emergency. They could protest off the streets, but blocking traffic is backfiring. I voted against Prop 8 but if they make life miserable again, I'll reconsider.

Many are turned off by their message that their right to marry is just like blacks and Latinos being allowed to marry across race -- that totally disregards the strong religious teachings of many, blacks, Latinos, conservative Christians, etc.

I understand how they'd find the Mormon church hypocritical, since that church allows polygamy, and it's creepy that an older man can marry multiple young girls. But that's not what's going on here in LA at the local Mormon church or in California -- that church gave to a ballot measure just like other churches do, including the Catholic church against abortion rights. People can disagree but making life miserable at rush hour for everyone backfires.

Some conservative Christians and Orthodox Jews and Muslims oppose gay marriage because if it's legally equal to traditional marriage, churches that refuse to marry gays as opposed to their principles can be prosecuted. Plus many don't want teachers to be forced to include gay sex and marriage in the health and social studies classes that are required in schools, and in the stories used in elementary curricula to teach civil rights tolerance. If those exemptions are written into a future version of the law, lots of problems can be avoided. Blocking traffic is NOT going to help anyone.

[Daisy]

Well...on the bright side, we were saved from a riot on election night. Can you imagine what would have happened if Obama had lost? Thank you foreign donors for helping America elect Obama.

[srla]

I have to drive right through all that mess now, but I'll gladly put up with the inconvenience.

I've heard so-called legal experts on local new proclaim that Prop 8 was not a Constitutional revision but rather an Amendment because it was short and "limited in scope".

By this same logic a ballet proposition to ban Mormon marriage should pass muster too, as it would be equally "limited in scope". Of course, the sole problem with this hypothetical proposition is that such an amendment would violate the equal protection provision of the State Constitution and therefore would constitute a constitutional revision. As a revision, it would have to pass a 2/3 vote in the state legislature to be allowed on the ballot.

The same is true with Prop 8. This legal reasoning should be simple for an objective individual to understand. A gay marriage ban has been ruled to violate the equal protection provision (as would banning Mormon marriage). therefor it should be clear that Prop 8 will be ruled an illegal revision of the California Constitution.

[Sarah Beth]

The protesters even caused the Los Angeles Temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to close today for the safety of worshipers. I'm glad I got the message from my church group that was planning to go that the temple had been closed. Traffic would have been a mess and I would not have been able to get inside tonight anyway.

[Fred]

Protest all you want because the PEOPLE have spoken and they have decided that your abominable actions are repugnant enough to deny them the dignity and honor of marriage. Bring it on liberal drones - the PEOPLE will fight on in their churches, synagogues, and mosques.

[greg johnson]

I hope the proponents of prop 8 now feel like their hetero marriage is more special and sacred. I do not understand how my ability to marry my husband in any way harms my hetero neighbors. If their relationship is so fragile, that two people committing to each other in love, could destroy it ... makes you wonder.

What kind of hatred do you have inside of you to want to hurt us this much ?

It is tragic that the proponents of prop 8 had to lie and misrepresent to ram their hatred through the election. What I don't understand is why don't they pick one of the ten Commandments and rally around that. How about "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor". Homosexuality is barely mentioned in the bible. Why pick that. If it was such a horrible thing, why isn't it one of the Ten Commandments ? Why single homosexuality out ? Why not the equally strong ban on eating shrimp (Leviticus 11:9-12) ? Why pick us to hurt ? I don't understand.

[Maggie]

You might want to update this. Intersection at Wilshire and Santa Monica is closed. Sort of a big news story, you would think.

[James Wilson]

Are you kidding me? Gay marriage is unlawful in California, get over it. Don't these protestors have jobs? Yes on Proposition 8 passed, live with it. If you want to marry your lesbian or gay lover, move to CT or MA. Not in our backyard...ever.

[Jim]

Why on earth were the on-ramps to the 405 from Wilshire and Santa Monica closed?! No one could get on to the 405. It seems that congestion might have eased if the police had allowed people to get on to the 405! It took 2 1/2 hours to get back to the Valley, and only through circuitous routes to Sepulveda. I'm done venting!

[caliislove]

Same sex couples rights (which have been granted in 2 other states, including this one) were put up for a "majority rules" decision. That is illegal, unconstitutional. I hate it when people who do not even have a domestic partnership feel they can safely say that DPs are the same as marriage. Domestic Partnerships are not the same as marriage. The rights granted by DPs do not extend beyond state borders. Marriages do. Domestic Partners must be 18 to marry...but straight couples can marry if they are under 18 with their parent's permission. With marriage, those in the armed forces stationed away can marry via proxy...there is no such equivalent for domestic partnership. And same sex partners are charged $40 to file a DP, while straight couples over 65 are only charged $10. That's not the same, that's not equal. That's discrimination. That's wrong. and that's illegal. The riots are only the beginning.

[Gryph]

The same thing happened back many years ago when then-Governor Pete Wilson vetoed legislation that would prevent discrimination toward gays and lesbians in housing and employment.

I know, I was one of the marchers. ;-)

West-side drivers (which I also am) will just have to put up with it for as long as it lasts.

After all, no matter what you think of Prop 8 or gay marriage, its clear that we gays and lesbian Americans mostly view this as an attack on our families, including even our children. Think of how ticked off you would feel if that happened to you.

[Jere]

It's about time the religions are held accountable in the laws eyes for their misdeeds. Take for example, David Koresch, Jim Jones, Jimmy Swaggert, and other Law Abiding Religious Citizens of this country. Perhaps, while they are pointing the accusatory finger at Gay Marriage, perhaps they should look at themselves first. I do believe, and know for a fact that most of the child molestations (pedophilia) comes from the churches themselves. Perhaps they don't want us to come together, because it could spoil their fun....

[Stuckintraffic]

i voted no on 8 and i completely support the protestors but why don't they go do this in orange county...

[mario]

If you don't like traffic then you should have voted NO on 8!

[mario]

If you don't like traffic then you should have voted NO on 8!

[H. Craig Bradley]

Sore losers! The Gay community lost at the ballot box on the first initiative in 2000 and again with Prop.8. They lost in Oregon a couple years ago, as well. You can not force a majority of the population to agree with or accept you. That must be earned in each individual case. Also remember, equal treatment does NOT equate to equal results.

Doing end runs through the courts in an attempt to overturn the will of the people only causes more hard feelings. So, don't be doing that. And yes, leave the MORMONS alone, or suffer fire and brimstone.

Remember Sodom and Gomorrah in the Book of Genesis? Only Lot escaped with his life out of the entire population of two towns . That was not bigotry, it was judgement. Please, Don't let it happen to you.

[Concerned Driver]

Do these idiots really think causing this kind of disruption is going to make me sympathetic to their cause? Nope. This is the second time the people have made this choice. Live with it.

[DAVE PHILLIPS]

Next time LA law enforcement grants a parade or protest permit, why not allow that to occur during mid-afternoon. That way the protestors would be forced to join the rush hour conjestion which was so maddening for tens of thousands headed both to and from work tonight -- for the civil rights of a few thousand who apparently can't accept the results of a direct democratic vote on Prop 8.

[joey]

Come on! Do you people realize that Mormons only made up for 2% of the YES vote. That leaves 98% of the YES vote to others. Maybe it should tell you all a little something about having family VALUES. Something you all agreeing on the NO vote know nothing about.

[Darla Clancy]

What does the Mormon Church have to do with the passing of 8? I know our Catholic church really was focusing on the pass. Also, exit polling shows that black and hispanic voters voted 70% in favor of prop 8. There isn't a BIG following of blacks and hispanics in the Mormon church. I don't understand why a bill has to be passed twice and people still don't get that majority wins.

[Dan]

I'm looking at it through my window on Barrington. Its utter gridlock. Lots of ambulences and firetrucks cutting through the mess. I just rode my bike through it, its gridlocked down to 20th, all through the Westside. Looks like I won't be celebrating my roomate's birthday tonight, good luck out there.

[tom grant]

Marriage really is a special relationship between men and women; this is not a liberal or conservative political 'position' regardless of religious affiliation...I can hear the screams of the self-righteous already, but: did it ever occur to you that you're actually wrong? Male and female exist for specific reasons. OK, start yelling. PS, I'm a Democrat.

[Norman]

Taken from a quote as a diverse group of US military men/women became US citizens: "Diverse as your backgrounds may be, you all now have one thing in common: You are all Americans," said U.S. Army Gen. Ray Odierno, the top American commander in Iraq. "You represent the very best of all that our nation stands for: freedom, opportunity, equality and service."

The best that a nation has to offer and here in California in this 21st Century, we've passed a measure to insert hate into our state constitution. Shouldn't all people have equal rights? Where's the justice in excluding the rights of a certain group such as the gay community?

First we didn't learn our lesson with inequality for blacks, then women, interracial marriage, now the gay community. Let's be the progressive state and offer equal rights to all our citizens.

[Anna]

I work in this area and do delivers around here, so I've been sitting in traffic all day, but regardless, I am truly ecstatic that this has spurred such a reaction. I was sitting in my car with a smile on my face, truly excited that the gay community will not admit defeat. Imagine, a frustrating day of non-stop traffic, and I was elated.

[hanfrina]

HEY L.A.!?! ...

... GOOD to SEE your LOUSY LAPD swinging CLUBS again on CNN. NOT good PR for S. Cal.!?!

- How about TAXING all CHURCHES now?!? As a FORMER GAY MORON, I say "DO IT!!!" Bring the RICHEST, most ANTI-GAY/HOMPHOBIC/HETEROSEXIST/HIERACHAL PATRIARCHY to-it's-KNEES!!!

[Johnsonville]

Not the way to get people to sympathize with your cause. Pisses more people off. Now they have to deal with extra traffic because of a protest because people didn't vote the way you wanted them to.

[gaf]

yes on 8 ! live with it !

[Mike]

Blocking traffic and disrupting traffic flow here on the westside is just hacking people off.

[Chris]

Do gays not have jobs? No wonder unemployment is goign through the roof...they are busy trying to shove their values down everyone else's throats.

Funny how gays are the first to cry when they don't get what they want, and have no respect for other's views. I think the real hate is that gays don't value anyone's opinion but their own.

[Kelly Johnson]

Yes, you are correct; this is a Democracy and you are very politically savvy in your assertion...of the obvious. But consider this: The majority, in this case, is voting on the RIGHTS of a MINORITY. Herein lies the problem with Democracy. This is the 'tyranny of the majority' that Alexis de Tocqueville of France, who wrote "Democracy in America" (which is required reading for any US Politician), warned us of. It is not the freedoms that America grants that concerned Tocqueville, but the lack of protection for minorities that majority rule almost guarantees. Proposition 8 is the case in point. Are you still following me? That is why we have civil rights movements, which are rarely won by a vote of the majority. For example, in 1967, 16 states were against interracial marriage, (ethnic minorities, you should perk your ears up on this one) and the MAJORITY of Americans were also AGAINST interracial marriage. It took a U.S. Supreme Court decision, not a majority vote, to overturn that and make interracial marriage legal. Are you making the connection between the examples I have given that you should be? If it were up to the majority, interracial marriage would be illegal. This is about constitutional rights. This is about equality. This is less about marriage, and more about discrimination. The constitutional RIGHTS of a minority cannot be decided through a vote from the majority. If you agree that our legal system should look this way, then you'd better pray that you don't find yourself in a minority based on your life decisions one day.

[David Blackburn]

Keep up the good work with the demonstrations! Hopefully, the Supreme Court will annul Proposition 8. If not, they might accept the definition of the word marriage, declare marriage as unconstitutional within the state and then annul all marriages! This could be the national fight we've been waiting for!!!

[Sam]

The gays certainly were going after the Mormon teenage missionaries in San Francisco ten years ago when I was there. I’m not Mormon but I saw it right there on market street by the UN plaza. If the current Mormon’s message is so wrong why did 52 percent of the other people in California side with them? Let me guess, the majority electorate are gullible dupes and the three percent who are gay along with Sen. Feinstein and the philosopher-king LA Times editorial board know what's best for society and children. The “unfairness” to the 3 percent who are adult and gay is very fair to the 97% who are heterosexual children not yet sexually aware going to Pop Warner football practice and 5th grade slumber parties and who don’t need to be confused by mandatory education for sexual practices by a very small numerical minority. What? I’m a gullible dupe of the Mormons too? Egad!

[bus rider.]

It took me 4 hours to get from 4th and Wilshire (Santa Monica) to 5th and Broadway(DTLA) on the Rapid 720 at 3:50 today. I with out a doubt could of walked home in that time.

[Mrs. GGB]

Why my husband and I both voted AGAINST Prop 8:

We do not live in a THEOCRACY and it bothers us that people are willing to change our state's Constitution to eliminate another citizen's right to marry the person of their choice, even if that person is of their same gender, based on religious dogma. In this country we all have the right to practice a religion OR to abstain from any and all religious affiliation if we so choose. To legislate from a religious perspective is the same as forcing everyone to live by the rules of a particular religious belief, whether they share that belief or not.

If we look at this issue from a religious perspective, we could also argue that to IMPOSE a particular religious tenet on the People through legislation or constitutional amendment is to deprive the People of their God given FREE WILL. Freedom of choice. When God commanded Adam and Eve to not partake of the forbidden fruit, He also gave them a choice: to follow His command OR to ignore it. That is our God given FREE WILL and no one, NO ONE has the right to take that away.

For those who believe that homosexuality and gay marriage is a sin, guess what? We all have the right to condemn ourselves to hell by our behavior if we so choose. FREE WILL. God's laws cannot be legislated by the State just as the State's laws cannot be legislated by God (or someone's interpretation of God).

Finally, my biggest beef with Prop 8 is that it's just another way for religious extremists to keep shoving their beliefs down everyone else's throat. The relationship between God and man is between that man and his God. Not between that man and everyone else's interpretation of God. To those who believe that their religion is the only one true way to God, where does that leave everyone else who doesn't believe the way they do? Worry about your own salvation and let everyone else do the same. Believe what you want, but leave the rest of us alone. If your church refuses to acknowledge gay marriage, fine, don't let gays marry in your church, but there's no reason why they should be denied marriage by the State.

If you believe that homosexuality is a sin, fine. You have the right to teach your kids that homosexuality is wrong if you want to, but the rest of us have the right to teach our kids that homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality. By the way, the last time I checked, kids still have to get their parent's permission to participate in sex education classes, where marriage is typically discussed. They also have to get their parents permission to attend a field trip, including a field trip to a gay wedding (like the kids in the Yes on Prop 8 t.v. ad).

If you want to live in a THEOCRACY then go and join the Palin's secessionist group in Alaska and form your own country. Leave the rest us alone!

[Zack]

The Mormon Temple was a target not because a few Mormons voted for Prop 8, but because the Church of Latter-Day Saints provided between 30% and 50% of the money funding the "Yes on 8" campaign. That's right, a California initiative was hugely funded by a UTAH Church. I have no problem with Californians deciding a California issue -- I have huge problems with an out-of-state group having a say removing my rights to equality.

[Melissa]

People keep saying that it's "the will of the people" and that homosexual couples should just deal with it - that the will of the people have spoken.

Funny thing - in the 1950s, the Supreme Court spoke out against the will of the people in a little case called Brown vs. Board of Education. It allowed black children to go to white schools. The decision was screamed as creating law from the courts. It was called immoral. It was called disgusting. All of the things that the yes-voters for Prop. 8 now say about homosexual marriage.

Just as the California Supreme Court decision, the U.S. Supreme Court was right to vote against the will of the people.

Being a democracy does not mean you rule by mob. Our constitution protects minorities against unequal and unfair treatment by the majority.

Those of you who voted yes on Prop 8? You just lessened the value of ALL of our marriages on Tuesday. Shame on you.

[Heidi Stevenson]

So many people are saying that those who voted yes on prop 8 are discriminating againts gay people's rights. More than anything, they are following their consciences. Marriage cannot be redefined. It came before society and culture and was a commandment from God. Everyone has the right to marry, just not to redefine what marriage is. Marriage constitutes the union of a man and a woman. Legalizing gay marriage would still not make it a marriage. We would all just have to pretend that it was a marriage.
In his "Letter from Birmingham Jail," Martin Luther King wrote, "A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law."
Here we have a quote from one of the greatest fighters for equality. According to his profession, his beliefs, and his dignity, he would also have been against gay marriage because it does not square with the moral law or the law of God. It is out of harmony with God's law.
To blame the passing of Proposition 8 on the Mormons is interesting. Should we view this as a condemnation or a commendation? There was and will continue to be a coalition of churches who wil stand up for familiies and lawfulness. But the funds supplied will not be through church organizations. The funds will be voluntary contributions by individuals to causes they believe in. This was the case with Proposition 8. And if you noticed, those who were grass-root campaigners for Proposition 8 were all peaceful and courteous. The same cannot be said for the opposition.
Overall, people of faith, who are against gay marriage, do not discriminate against their gay friends, colleagues, or the gay populatoin in general. They are actually the most accomodating and understanding. But as Christians, Muslims, and Jews who believe in the writings of the prophets and the teachings of the Lord, we cannot and will not change our views about the sanctitiy of marriage being between a man and a woman and the preservation of the traditional family.

[dooraa]

I find it truly sad to read the comments of so-called "Christians." Especially the one who whines that he/she is trying to "get home to see their families." Suck it up, you just did your very Satanic best to make sure that "these people" can't even start a family, much less be with the one they love. Jesus would be so very proud...with one exception: He never said ANYTHING about gays...EVER. True, there is something in Leviticus (right above the one about eating shell fish being an abomination as well), however if you do believe that Jesus is the Son of God and The Lamb of God, then you must understand the concept of "Old Testament Law" and "New Testament Law," therefore you are bearing false witness.

Let's see if you can wrap your heads around this: this is not about Churches other than when they have brought themselves in. Churches only house ceremonies, they do not grant or take away rights. This is about gay couples (tax paying, consenting adults, who never harmed you) wishing to be treated with human dignity and respect. Churches who don't want to marry gays don't have too. It's actually in an law. Have you read it?

So, once again, suck it up! You might be getting home a little later, but these people have had rights taken away from them based on a series of well crafted, well financed, unconstitutional lies.

By the way, don't get too upset when this gets overturned, and it will be. Messing with the constitution is meant to be a long laborious undertaking (Constitutional Conventions, votes through Houses of government, pesky little things like that) and none of the proper avenues were taken.

So stop your whining and look to see what you have brought upon yourselves. Enjoy:)

[Jane]

just to clear some things up:
Susan (3rd from top) Mormons no longer practice polygamy. They officially disavowed polygamy as a practice in 1890 and currently excommunicates any Latter-day Saint who embraces it. I honestly can't believe that people still think they do.
& to Zach (36th from top) The LDS religion is not a "utah church" it was started in New York and now has been accepted and is practiced around the world. Their headquarters are in Salt Lake City but their concerns, teachings & beliefs of what is right, moral, & sacred aren't stopped by a border & I doubt your beliefs, etc aren't either

[Juston]

Susan,

The Mormon church does not allow polygamy. You may be thinking of some non-mormon groups.

In fact, it is likely that those who do practice polygamy were hoping prop 8 would fail and that it would lead to the eventual recognition of their polygamist marriage.