Prop. 8: Backers on Southside and Eastside overcame foes on Westside

The battle over Proposition 8 in some ways came down to a battle between west and north versus south and east.

A Times database analysis of Proposition 8 voting in Los Angeles County shows some clear geographic divides over the issue of banning gay marriage. The database team produced a variety of interactive maps designed to help understand Proposition 8 balloting in L.A. and across California.

Here are some highlights:

WESTSIDE: Voters rejected Proposition 8 on the Westside by a large margin. About 66% of voters in Beverly Hills voted "no," as did 78% of Santa Monica voters. In Malibu, 69% voted no. Opposition was also heavy in the hillside corridor west of downtown from Echo Park and Silver Lake to Hollywood and West Hollywood, and also in the Mid-Wilshire, Fairfax and Beverly Center areas. That strong opposition to the measure jumped over the Hollywood Hills to the affluent "south of Ventura Boulevard" crowd and even farther north.

SOLID SOUTH and EAST: Some of the strongest support for Proposition 8 was south of downtown L.A., among black and Latino voters. In Compton, 65% of voters said "yes," as did 60% in Huntington Park, 61% in Inglewood and 63% in Lynwood. Similar levels of support were evident in predominantly Latino cities to the east, including Whittier, El Monte, Baldwin Park and Pomona.

ASIAN VOTE: Several cities with large Asian American populations -- Monterey Park, Alhambra, Temple City, San Gabriel, San Marino and Cerritos -- backed the measure. (Some of these cities also have sizable Latino populations.)

ALONG THE COAST: In the South Bay, the biggest opposition was along the coast. The beach cities -- Redondo, Manhattan and Hermosa -- all voted "no" by healthy margins. But on the Palos Verdes Peninsula, all four communities approved Proposition 8 (Palos Verdes Estates, however, did so by a thin margin).

FAR WEST VALLEY: The 101 Freeway corridor generally voted no: Agoura Hills, Calabasas, Hidden Hills and Westlake Village.

City with the largest "yes" percentage: INDUSTRY, 82% (but only 18 voters)

City with the largest "no" percentage: WEST HOLLYWOOD, 86%

Full analysis of L.A. County Prop 8 votes by city is available here.

-- Shelby Grad

Comments

[hangen]

whew, there is a God. Prop 8 almost did not pass.

[Lulu]

Amen to you Edward, as far as the Gays and Lesbians you can as the court to validated your sin but or hearts will always be true to God.

[Sue B]

hey, don't they have any relatives that are gay? 10% are.

[Ken Thompson]

I'm tired of the gay community attemping to tie the issue of gay marriage or so called "civil rights" to blacks civil rights fought for in the 60's. It offensive to me and other black people when gay people try to make that link.

Now, I could it see how prop 8 would be a civil rights issue if gays were a particular skin color, let's say like yellow or pink, that would easily identify them as being gay, and we were telling them that they could not get married.

As for me, I was not influenced by the mormons or catholics to vote "yes" on prop 8. I did it for my own personal beliefs.

[Richard]

I am a straight, married man who voted NO on Proposition 8. I am sick of so-called religious people telling me what constitutes "traditional marriage" and that somehow by respecting others with the same rights and responsibilities under the law that my heterosexual marriage is somehow threatened! That is utter nonsense, creating some false "personhood" for the "institution" of marriage. Marriage is a legal contract between two individuals who want to recognize their relationship under the law with the legal rights that come with it, nothing more or less.

If you want a religious ceremony, go for it. The court's decision did absolutely nothing to force gay marriage into churches. I am sick of people using their bogus religious beliefs to push bigotry on others. The next thing you know, these people will be pushing to discriminate against the LGBT for housing, then employment, schools, medical attention....after all, it seems all you need to AMEND the CONSTITUTION of California is a vote of 50.1% of the people who show up on election day.

It's a shame the constitution can be amended by a sham of an initiative process and such a narrow vote by such narrow-minded people. Constitutions are supposed to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority. Ballot initiatives are now being misused for all kinds of nefarious purposes. If we allow this to continue it's only a matter of time before everyone finds themselves in some category of minority being pushed around.

[Clemmiez]

There are MANY churches of various denominations and many Jewish congregations who fully support the right of same sex-couples to marry. And many who don't. However, the last time I checked, while granting freedom of religion to the people, our country governed under secular law. Your God is not better than my God. Your beliefs are not more moral or better than mine. To each his own to practice their own way, but not to shove it down the throats - or voting ballots - of others. Prior to November 4, churches in California had the right to not perform same sex marriages. No church would have been forced to do so as the scare tactic ads suggested! What gay or lesbian couple would want to get married where they weren't wanted anyway? Also, in most European countries, straight couples are required to have a signing of marriage papers and civil ceremony at the local town hall prior to a religious wedding. The clergy does not have legal power to marry people. Church/temple weddings are purely ceremonial. It is only in the United States that ministers, rabbis, priests, etc. have the power "invested by the state" to legally marry people. Though we too, have can have civil weddings (by choice) at city hall. Or if you feel especially entitled by the "sanctimony of marriage" you can get married by Elvis in Las Vegas.
Prop 8 is indeed a civil issue. Domestic partnerships in the United States (contrary to those in Europe) do not cover many of the rights that marriage does. Rights of inheritance, life/death hospital decisions, adoption, tax status, pension, property rights, and health and auto insurance plans are automatic legal benefits of the word "marriage". Therefore, gay & lesbian couples and their families are second class to those who are married. (Heterosexual couples who choose –ooh, there’s that word again - not to marry are in the same boat by the way.)
My mother and grandparents went through the Nuremberg Laws in Nazi Germany. Go look it up. Basic rights they and their forbearers had for a hundred years were wiped out. My 8 year old blonde, blue-eyed mother was physically removed and forbidden to swim in the town swimming pool where she had been playing with her friends. She was -one day to the next - no longer allowed to go to the public school she'd been attending; my grandparents had to let go of all female employees under the age of 35 who worked for them. They were no longer permitted to marry anyone who didn't have "Jewish blood". And that was just the beginning. Here in the United States, Brown vs. the Board of Education was a ruling set forth by the Supreme Court. If it had been a majority vote, those southern states would probably still have separate black and white schools, housing, restaurants, etc. And this was here, in AMERICA in our lifetime. As one poster said, "It truly is amazing the damage that old-world homophobia, educational and social ignorance, and religious dogma can do when joined together". And, like womens right to vote, desegregation, and apartheid, it will take more time, but it will change.... This inane proposition that never legally should have been put on the ballot will be overturned.

Full marriage recognized: Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, and US States: Connecticut, Massachusetts, and California (on hold for the time being).
Legal partnerships similar to marriage (with identical rights)Sweden, Denmark, UK, Czech Republic, Slovenia, Hungary, Finland, Portugal

[Bernard]

It has been so interesting to see the open arrogance of some white gay folks condemning and singling out the black community in this debate. Their "you went through it too, now support my civil rights.." is beyond arrogance. Especially when they hop in their mercedes and auto lock the doors after... for some white gays; it is imperative you become accountable for your racism. In fact, if you had been more accountable for your racism before the election, and spent time reaching out to the black community in neighborhoods other than silverlake and laguna beach, you might've had more support. Again, auto locks...
Oh, and how about that Michigan Womyn's Music Festival? Another shining example of civil rights? Not if you are the letter T in the acronym. Puhleeeze....
I only wish that the conformity worshiping marriage activists within the gay community would spend as much energy, time, and effort lending a helping hand to the thousands of young gay youth who are homeless runaways, the trans people murdered, the black lesbians discriminated against in the workplace, as they spend on trying to conform to the flawed institution of marriage, and getting even more priveledge in the straight world in the form of tax breaks, ect...
So, in closing... If you are white, drive a benz, live in WEHO or the Castro district, ect... please be very careful when you relate your struggle to the Black Civil Rights Movement. Please take a moment to examine the differences between your struggle and the Black Civil Rights Movement next time you auto lock your doors in South LA.

[Joseph]

USA Today published an article recently in which Sir Elton John spoke about his position on Proposition 8. John clarified his position on Prop 8 while attending the annual benefit for the Elton John AIDS Foundation. He was accompanied by his longtime partner David Furnish, whom he joined in a civil union in 2005. John was quoted as saying, "We're not married. Let's get that right. We have a civil partnership. What is wrong with Proposition 8 is that they went for marriage. Marriage is going to put a lot of people off, the word marriage."

John went on to emphasize that civil unions grant same-sex couples the same rights afforded to married heterosexual couples. He stated, "I don't want to be married. I'm very happy with a civil partnership. If gay people want to get married, or get together, they should have a civil partnership . . . the word marriage, I think, puts a lot of people off. You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil partnerships."

Now, that’s what you call “pride”.

[Tee]

YES ON 8 !

We will never stop fighting for what is right!

[Joanne]

Re: "Prop. 8 organizers should have sent Latinos to convince Latinos, blacks to convince blacks, etc. Quit pretending that all minority groups are one big happy family."

They need to stop pretending that everybody non-white is the same, and part of one unit. Newsflash: You don't have to be white to be an individual.

And I think that outlook is why the No on 8 campaign failed. They thought they had a larger percentage of the white vote than they did, and they didn't think they needed to do any outreach beyond white people. Gays come from all socioeconomic backgrounds and races, so why is the dominant view of gay people limited to white people from West LA and San Francisco? I don't think gays will secure their rights until the image of gay people becomes more broad and realistic. Most Americans don't really know that much about you.

[Danielle]

I have read the majority of comments concerning prop 8 and I would like to state my opinion as well, because as we all know these are just opinions. As an educated African American woman in a doctoral program, who attends church, I also have a relationship with God, the one who ordained marriage. I feel that this debate is out of control, kind of like our country is right now. We are supposed to be one country under God, but we have become divided. Slavery was wrong under the pretense of race and genetic superiority. We as a nation had to come to this awareness and correct the problem, because all human beings are created equal. The topic at hand is marriage, a vow that is made between a man and a woman before God in holy matrimony for the purpose of procreation, and to continue the family which is our primary socialization process. The question has been posed numerous times as to why can't we just leave the homosexuals and lesbians alone to form their unions and let them be happy? We have in the form of being accepting and inclusive with granting civil unions, separate but equal. the problem as I see it is you want your union to be called a marriage when clearly it is not for the purpose of procreation nor is it holy or God ordained matrimony. Homosexuals and lesbians don't want to conform to societal norms, they want to be seen as different and accepted for their differences. We see you as different and don't want your views shoved down our throats as though it is normal. So if you can't make up your minds as to be inclusive of the norm, then separate but equal is being accepting and tolerant. Prop 8 has made this voice clearly defined and distinctive when you make your choice to be different.

[Joanne]

No group voted for or against Prop 8 by 100%. People of all races voted for the measure and against it.

The media want to pretend that all minorities voted yes and all white people voted no. It's a lie. Just like they lied when they said that Latinos would not vote for Obama, or that Jews would not vote for Obama. I have an idea. How about just holding accountable the INDIVIDUALS who voted for Prop 8 regardless of of what race they are. But one must have some working brain cells to be able to do that.

[peopleagainstpeoplewhoprotest]

I'm not suprise at the numbers at all. Latinos and Blacks are one happy bigot klan group. But just like prop. 187 (ban illegals aliens), prop 8 will be overturned by the courts. This is how California works--disregard the will of its citizens.

[Lamotte]

Those who are threatning to "get ugly" (whatever that mean) on the no to 8 side obviously do not understand that if the yes to 8, keeping marriage between a man and a woman, forces decide to "get ugly" in return, the no to 8 forces wouldn't stand a chance in battle.

[drjaneebg]

Laura V., I agree with this tactic in one sense. At the same time, I don't believe most African Americans or Latinos would feel safe going into thier own communities asking for votes on a Proposition like 8. There is still too much homophobia and hate. While there has been too little education the topic in many of these cultures is simply taboo. When we say marriage they hear and see SEX.

[Ann]

When are we going to start taxing churches? Sooner rather than later, I hope!

[Marc]

The real threat to our society isn't gay marriage, it's this horribly un-American, simply ugly way our entire community is now torn apart with finger pointing. Everywhere I go now, in California, I wonder -- "What neighborhood is he from? How did that neighborhood vote? Was he among those who took my rights away?"

Nothing good will ever come from Prop 8 - except, perhaps, for a backlash against it and the resolve to overturn it, either in the courts or at a future election. The Yes-on-8 crowd -- at least those who actually live in California -- will come to sorely regret this, if they don't already.

[Ann]

I hope these protests go on until this stupid proposition is overturned! Allowing gays to marry doesn't affect my relationship with my husband, nor does it hurt my child. The proposition is wrong because it shows how intolerant people can be, especially so-called Christians. I can't believe how bigoted people are against gays, even in the great state of California. I voted No on Prop 8 in Alhambra, and yes I'm half Asian (Japanese, not Chinese).

[Zach]

Mr. Do-Gooder needs to educate himself on what the courts are for. Contrary to what right-wing pundits say, the courts EXIST to check the people and the lawmakers. The judges are "un-elected" so that they'll maintain some shred of impartiality and make decisions without having to worry about pandering for re-election. No, the people do not get to rule the nation (and its minorities) without interference any more than the politicians do. Sorry if you don't like our Founding Fathers wisdom in establishing that!

[Jeff]

Prop 8 NO demonstrators should go into South L.A. and try to exercise their rights to free speech with the local 60+% YES advocates. This would make some good video on all the local network news channels.

[cbk16]

This has nothing to do with civil rights, since Gays already have civil unions and all the benefits straight people can get. Even Elton John said Gays redefining marriage is silly, that he is happy with his civil union. This is just a excuse for Gays to bash the churches that believe in the bible. If Christians go against what is said in the bible, or Islam goes against the Koran, there would be no religion, which would make many of these protesters happy.

[Nicole]

I think it's important to note where this article came from. Digg is an ultra-liberal online publication. I find it interesting that even liberals have stooped to pitting races against each other. Personally, I think Prop 8 should not have passed, however focusing anger and rage on the issue is such a stupid way of reacting to this. Quit hyping each other up. Gay marriage will eventually be passed, civil rights unfortunately don't always just appear overnight. Ask anyone who's a member of a race or people who have been oppressed. Anger and hatred are huge problems in this country right now. Even the people that used to claim to be "the open-minded" ones have become closed minded to anything other than what THEY believe in. Don't be a part of this problem. Please, I implore you. Our future depends on it.

[cbk16]

Even Elton John said changing the definition of marriage is not going to work, that he is perfectly happy with his civil union. This who thing is not about civil rights, Gays can have equal treatment under the law and equal benefits, it is about changing the definition of marriage, so future generations don't see any difference if a boy wants to marry a boy or a girl. The majority still want our children to know there is a difference, that it is good for a child to have a mother and a father growing up. Equating this with the Black 60's struggle for civil rights is apples and oranges.

[cbk16]

Should the 53% of Californians that voted for traditional marriage boycott all businesses that donated to defeat prop 8? If apple computer donated to defeat prop 8 should the majority dump our IPOD'S? If gay marriage is defeated two times in the most liberal state, the vast majority of the country is not supportive of this issue. It wasn't just a small religion giving some money, it was many people that were against this, Obama helped out, since 70% of African Americans that came out to vote, were against Gay marriage in this most Liberal of States.

[Mr. Do-Gooder]

The bottom line is that in the State of California, your vote doesn't count unless a select group of people say it counts. Un-Elected Judges make laws in this state, and laugh in the face of millions of voters in every election. California is neither a Democracy, or Democratic Republic. It is a Dictatorship ruled by 7 Un-Elected State Supreme Court Flunlkes.

[Leslie]

I am shocked at the ignorance and homophobic rants of people that believe they should have any vote to discriminate ! Firstly, there is a separation of church and state. Second, The constitution was written to protect minorities from majority oppression, Third, it is important to realize that if you allow people to vote on others civil rights no group will be immune from losing their rights. I believe we could get a majority to take away your rights: For example whether Blacks or Hispanics should be allowed to get married or own property. Keep in mind that a majority can strip anyone of their rights if you allow voters to decide what is constitutional. Remember Black people did not get rights from voters they have rights because of legislatures and the courts. Frankly, if you allow voters to decide on minority rights they would not have any! Please keep in mind that if you take away my rights we will vote to take away your rights!

[johnson]

ok i am really confused. since when is church and state no longer separated? i voted no on prop 8 not because of cival rights(believe me i am all for the rights of minorities) but mainly because of the main contributors of pro prop 8 were churches. i tis really alarming to imagine that a church from utah asked nation wide to have contributions for yes on 8 amounting in over 2 million in funds not to mention the countless other churches doing the same. if it were not for a contitution regulating rights, you would not be able to practice your religion in this great state. get over yourselves and let the minorities of all sects marry. be it gay lesbain black asian latin or god forbid white. i truely see in the very near future prop 8 will be deamed unconsitutional. we all need to realize that one minority does not deserve better(more) rights than another. enough with all the african american bashing. di any of you stop to think that maybe a lot of the voters did not understand that voting yes on prop 8 meant no to gay marriage. because i actually had to ask a few friends to help me and them understand what the yes vote and the no vote meant.. wake up people and realize this is the 21st century and it time to help minorities be part of society

[David]

it seems the more educated voted no on 8.

[Anon]

Yes, tolerate different views by making sure that other people can't do something you don't agree with.

[Raquel]

The thing is, Gays do have the right to married only it can be someone of the same sex. Therefore, no civil rights have been violated. You do have the right to marry.

[Johnson]

It has been a tradition to regulate marriage in the USA. There are laws regarding age at marriage, how many people you can marry, what type of species you can marry, etc. Why is it so hard to admit that marriage between two males or marriage between two females is inherently wrong? Even if you don't agree with me, the majority of Californians do, deal with it and live in a society with laws and regulations that are chosen by the majority.

[Sam]

If I were African-American I would be angered by the comparison the gay community makes between their "civil-rights movement" and the movement in the 60's. No one can control the color of their skin. I was amazed to see the overwhelming support of Prop 8 by the African-American community. I wish the white community could be like that. Also, stop calling people who oppose gay marriage "bigots." It's not helping your cause at all. Vandalizing churches and verbally attacking those who don't agree with you goes against your call for "acceptance" and "tolerance." Also stop making up lies about the Mormon and Catholic churches...

[John G]

I voted "no on 8", but after seeing all of the protests, Mormon-bashing, Black and Latino bashing, I want to change my vote to "Yes."

I think the gay community's true colors have come out as the most intolerant people in this country calling everybody bigots, homophobes, and just about everything else under the sun.
I don't want to see children brought up with that kind of hate.

[Jake Benson]

Dear Charles,

You said:

"I am upset that they are considering overturning our elected results. You cannot hold an election and then turn around and decide our voice doesn't count."

O'rly? So president Bush got elected the first time because of the people's vote, right? Wrong. Our country is a Republic, not a Democratic one. So there are some measures that sometimes override the popular vote, whether for good or bad.

Having said that, "The People" aren't always smart, as clearly shown historically in the South when they would use the same excuse "but the people clearly want blacks to be segregated."

Why are you so biggoted Charles? Gays are not responsible for the corruption of marriage; divorce is. So please go home and open up a nice can of BLAME YOURSELF!

[N_C]

To Si nosotros podemos,

Barrett is not wrong. Votes under 30 voted strongly against Prop 8. Voters over 60 (or maybe 65) voted strongly for Prop 8. I too am waiting for the old bigots to die off so marriage can be equal for all. It will happen and within the next 15-30 years. I will be joyful when it does.

[me]

keep on protesting like you did with the mormon temple and watch your supporters fade away. pissing off people who don't support you won't help change their mind, and pissing off your supporters will only hurt you as well. it was a prop that passed by the majority. stop complaining and being poor sports and get back to the drawing board to find a way to win. i support equal rights and am straight. do what needs to be done to win the fight, but realize that you lose friends and supporters by making everybody pay. food for thoughts.

[John]

Zach,
Obviously you have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to Mormons.
"This would be a great time to deny the Mormons their religious protections. Their's is not a religion. They do not have a theology. If they do, it is secret. If it is secret, it is for good reason. The writings of their prophet-so called-are the ravings of a lunatic and are thus under lock and key, never to be made public again."

Zach - for your information, it is a religion - it is called the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints. None of the writings, including but not limited to, the Book of Mormon are secret and can be read by anyone. I seriously doubt you get any of your information from a credible source. BTW - I am sure you and many others are not aware that polygamy was outlawed by the Mormon Church on Oct 6, 1890, 118 years ago

It is the right of Mormons, Catholics, Jews, all other religions, Blacks, Whites, Latinos, Asians and all other races to believe that Marriage is ONLY between a man & a woman. We have the right as Americans to vote and share our beliefs. It is not your right, or any one else's to steal the votes of those who supported Prop 8. It would seem that the only way people like you Zach have to fight is to spit your vitreous filth and slander from your mouth.

Next time before you post a comment get your facts straight!

As far as the LA Times story, I don't see any mention of the Central Valley stats where 75% of the voters in many counties supported Prop 8. Does that mean farmers overwhelmingly support Prop 8. I guess so!

[Bertha]

guys I think there is some heterphopia on this board j/k

[Tracy]

REBUTTAL to ignorance of what's next "marrying three people or your pet"

Not true. In countries where same sex unions marriages are allowed, this has never been the “next step”. However, under current law, anyone who is married is most definitely allowed to have as many husbands or wives as they desire, through a process called “divorce”. There are no laws against that (yet).
As for pets...i have yet to meet a dog that can walk down the aisle in a dress or tuxedo, or sign a contract.

[Virgie90232]

TO ALL OF THOSE WHO SAY 'GET OVER IT' because it has been voted on twice. First of all, it should never have been voted on a few years ago. That is one of the reasons it was overturned in the courts. You should have gotten over it then. But no, instead you decided to spend a lot of money and put out a bunch of lies to support putting it on the ballot again. Again, it should never have been allowed to be voted on. You guys need to get over it because it again will be overturned. You may try again and again, but each and every time it will be overturned. You may eventually get the picture and for once do your research before doing something stupid. Suggested readings in the catagories to included, but not limited to: Both U.S. and state constitution laws, history of marriage, biblical history, sociology, civil rights history, biology, just to name a few. Also you should start doing your own thinking instead of listening to the lies put out by your churches. Also you should realize the consequences of your actions. You have moved this to a national ilevel and even the world is looking upon your stupid actions. This is NOT GOING AWAY, instead it is growing. Take heed to this weekend's national protests in cities across this country. Now imagine that these events are going to get more and more people involved with open minds. So in some ways, I thank you for putting it on the ballot for you have sped up the process for us in reaching our goals. It also has put in the limelight on how the separation of church and state does not exist in our country.

[Jeff]

protectmarriage.com
if you want to understand the yes on 8 people

[Pam]

Kids are they ones that will reap the consequences of alternative lifestyle marriage. No kids should purposely not have a father or mother. Thats another reason marriage should be protected.

[Debbie Downer]

Those who voted yes on prop 8 are either twisted, hateful people or uneducated...plain and simple. This is a losing battle and these people are trying to shove their point of view into people's throats. They are trying to write the narrative that Californians believe that this is the will of the people. A slim majority is not the will of the people. This is a LGBT minority made up of all kinds of people, male and female, white, black, latino, and asian. They are a strong minority and are quite used to namecalling, fearmongering, and cruelty. They also make up the fabric of our society. You just can't see them, you can't easily recognize all of them and please be assured that when your time comes, your going wish they were on your side.

[Lou]

every child has a RIGHT for a mother and father. How sad it would be not to have that experience. This right needs to be protected.

[Leonardo]

Marriage needs to be protected. Please stand up to the assults on marriage.
Please have tolerance for a view different than yours
thanks everyone

[BERT]

I am straight & I voted no on Prop 8. I don't believe in Religious, I don't believe in God. To me religion is a weakness of the human race & and I don't believe that smart/intelligent people go to church. Seriously, they are guided by some "God" or some kind of "power" that nobody ever saw. Their Bible & books were written by other humans. They keep telling people what their "God" (a ghost) thinks is right & wrong. Like people who doesn't have a religion like me are sinners/monsters, that Gay people should not marry, that only married straight couples should adopt children. Gimme a break. I always have been tolerant of their believes. If they want pray for a ghost thats their right, even if a I think that is stupidity & ignorance. But what I can't tolerate is Society letting them manipulate politics. I am a American, I pay taxes & make me sad to see that California let those church folks manipulate the way we want to live. If Gay people wants to get married that is a right they have. They pay taxes just like every American. People this is the 21st Century. It is about time to separate Church from politics/civil rights. Enough of this no sense

[bob]

marriage won't make gays equal, they can't reproduce, it is unnatural, thats why it is wrong and a no brainer. marriage is for opposite sexes-union in order to reproduce

[Julian]

I am a gay, Christian, Latino. Based on the broad brush strokes used to paint people into voting patterns by ethnic classifications how do you think I voted on Prop 8??? You may be surprised to know, I voted Yes on 8. We all are more complex than being gay/straight, white/ethnic minority, religious/non-religious, highly educated/under educated. We are a series of experiences and influences that shape our value system. With a yes or no vote, sometimes you have to decide which of your competing values will take precedence. In the end, I believe Yes on 8 was the right thing to do for preservation of cultural/religious freedom, and I don't think it hurt my equal rights as a gay man since every legal protection is still available to me through Civil Unions without the label of Marriage. Gay marriage cannot be equated with equal/human rights when under the law the rights are the same just with a different name. That is the huge difference between this and previous Civil Right struggles. There's also something to be said for the will of the people. The court overtuned voters wishes (Prop 22), which is the only reason Prop 8 even reappeared. For those that want to complain that in a Constitutional Republic it's not always the will of the people (which is true), they must also examine history and the Constitution, which never intended to let Judges legislate from the bench.

[TomInMB]

re: "The beach cities -- Redondo, Manhattan and Hermosa -- all voted "no" by healthy margins. But on the Palos Verdes Peninsula, all four communities approved Proposition 8 (Palos Verdes Estates, however, did so by a thin margin). "

No mystery here. It's likely the aforementioned "Asian vote".

In the last 20 years, the 4 towns on the PV peninsula have acquired a very large Asian minority -- about 23% of the total 64000 residents.
Palos Verdes Estates has the smallest Asian minority, about 17%.

The 3 beach cities are predominantly *not* Asian : Manhattan (89% white), Hermosa (90% white), and Redondo (79% white, 14% Latino).

[skeet]

devi is that your name? i seen your comment and i would like to tell you that the way the law is written right now the only people that would vote no on prop 4 are pediphiles because that is who it protects. gay marriage is immoral and against the bible thankfully enough people of this state still realize that.

[Glenn]

smo, out of love and respect for you and your position, I watched what you recommended:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVUecPhQPqY
Both you and Mr. Oberman need to take a step back. You are missing the big picture.

[Glenn]

Martin, you wrote, "The state constitution cannot deny rights, everyone is equal." Really? Think about what you are saying. That is neither the way that I understand it, nor the courts, nor those who are behind bars. On the contrary the state denies rights all of the time, and if we overextend our rights, we forfeit some of our equality. Just try driving down the left side of the street, and you'll see what I mean.

[BL]

I can't believe what I hear from the gay community and it's supporters when it comes to it's opponents. You ask for tolerance yet your intolerant, you ask for compassion yet you hate, you ask for understanding yet you won't listen. Any true believer doesn't hate gays, in fact it's quite the opposite. Any true believer should love you as Christ loves you. That doesn't mean that a Christian should have to accept your lifestyle anymore than the lifestyle of a pedophile or physical abuser or a crack head, a lifestyle opposed to the God of the bible. We are commanded to love and try and share the truth to those in sin and it's not my truth or your truth there must be an absolute truth. The Bible has that truth and you can't take a piece of the Old Testament or New Testament and take it out of context to align with your argument. Look at the whole book because scripture interprets scripure. Your lifestyle is a choice and you can't expect it to be condoned because you call it a civil right. I am hispanic and i didn't choose to be hispanic and all the prejudice that comes along with being hispanic. You choose to be gay and suffer with guilt and strive for acceptance because of your choice. The miracle is that the knowledge you would receive from the Holy Spirit upon true conversion would change your lifestyle as it would the pedophiles or abuser or crack head, and you would change immeadiatly from gay to heterosexual and be on the other side of the fence so don't hate. As far as the laws of the land and the Constitution if we would align our laws with biblical truths and examples it would be a country of strength and pride and honor like it was when founded. God bless.

[Jay]

I am disgusted at the fact this issue has been made into an issue of race. Often times Black are told not to pull the race card, but shouldn't the people who install that imaginary rule apply that to themselves as well? The facts are facts, but the finger should not be pointed at other races because of their believes. I believe that the majority of people who our Pro Prop 8 are similar to me. They were raised and taught that homosexuality should not be excepted in their homes and religion. Personally I am not homophobic, but I don't believe that homosexuality is right. So as a result, I voted in favor of Prop 8. Another fact is that religion has always been involved in the law making. So if the majority of minorities follow religions that are against homosexuality, then the outcome of their votes is no surprise.

I've read comments of people saying that Blacks should be supportive because of our struggle for civil rights. 1) You can't just expect Blacks to just jump on the ban wagon for your cause and you've made no effort to get the support of Blacks. 2) Most Blacks believe that homosexuality is a choice and being Black is not a choice. The civil rights movement was about Blacks being treated differently because of something they have no control over. So Blacks civil right are totally different from Gay marriage civil rights. There for how can you expect the two groups to relate? 3) Another issue is that you can't ask for Blacks to fight for your struggle when Blacks are often still alone in their struggles today. You don't see gay marriage protesters protesting with Blacks in issues like The Jena Six, or The Rodney King Beating. Instead they are quick to bring down issues important to us like rap music and putting strong opinions into issues like Michael Vick's. Not to support what Vick did, but if you can but energy into fighting for dead dogs, then you can put energy into supporting Blacks with their issues for support for your own issue.

[smo]

If any of you against gay marriage can open your mind for one second, get passed the bigotry and cynicism, I dare you to watch this inspirational commentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVUecPhQPqY

[smo]

I read this letter online and am copy and pasting it here since it seems relevant,"

"
Letter: Keep discrimination out of constitution

Chico Enterprise-Record
Article Launched: 11/01/2008 12:00:00 AM PDT

California voters should reject Proposition 8 because it would enshrine discrimination in our California Constitution. Marriage is a civil contract between two people issued by government to its citizens. Many people choose to celebrate, enrich, enhance or sanctify their marriage bond in a church or site of worship. That's the tradition of traditional marriage.
However, houses of worship do not grant marriage. Marriage is a governmental function, and as such, California government must treat all people equally. Put another way, you may get married in a church, but you have to get a license from the county office in Oroville to make it legal.

Opponents of same-sex marriage concern themselves with the sexual orientation of other people. Most Californians don't share that concern, and we must not tolerate discrimination of any kind by our government.

California is on the cusp of joining the rest of the nation in electing a transformational leader who will move California and the nation ahead. Why would we surrender now to the fear mongering of those who would take us back to the days of divisive, discriminatory bans against certain classes of people? Why would we allow intolerant religious bigots, mostly Mormons, but others as well, write discrimination against people who love each other into our guiding document, our Constitution? This doesn't sound anything at all like the California I know. Vote no Proposition 8.

— John Drzal, Chico"

[Urban Agent]

The median household income for those LA County municipalities that voted No on Prop 8 is $90,000 (excluding Long Beach/LA too much variance within the city). Quit scapegoating Latinos and Blacks..the issue is about class and money.

[Si nosotros podemos!]

To Barett:
Question: If you're waiting for white conservatives to die off, won't white liberals all die off, too? Seeing as that more minorities backed prop 8 and we'll end up taking their place, how does that help you? It cracks me up that you white people see everything through varying shades of whiteness when California is so much more colorful...

[LA Land Fan]

This proposition shouldn't have been on the ballot in the first place. The state constitution cannot deny rights, everyone is equal. Those of you who are for prop 8, did you not read other peoples comments here? See Phil Stevens comments. It is referring to the fact that the bible says a lot of things, so why don't you follow every thing it says? Because you pick and chose what is convenient for your argument. And none of you pro-prop 8 has given any real reason how this would be bad for "traditional" marriage, considering it has a 50% success rate. How would letting gays marry degrade your marriage? And if you truly cared about "traditional" marriage, you would be outlawing pre-marital sex, divorce, birth control (sex is only for procreation), and refusing marriage to people who don't want kids. Basically you guys are bible-thumping idiots with no ability to think for yourselves, just regurgitating the same lame talking points. And by the way, there is homosexuality in nature, why don't you google it and learn something. If it was up to the majority, then black people would still be slaves. I'm glad at least the younger generation gets it, I can't wait till you ignorant people pass on.

[Martin]

Prop 8 shouldn't have been there in the first place. Marriage is a union of a white man and a white woman, period. All these civil rights should be thrown away. How dare you, black and asian folks, dilute the sacred institution of white people's marriage? Pace v. Alabama should be reinstated.

/s

[nialla]

So the will of the people only counts when you agree with the results?

[WCH III]

It sounds to me that Tim Charles has presented a challenge to gay rights protesters. He suggests it is unfair that no demonstrations have been organized in South LA.

My question to Mr. Charles is this, "Are you implying that we might be afraid to protest in the black community?" You comment that "its just easier to pick on the Mormans (sic)." There are certainly a number of churches in South LA that have crossed the legal boundaries of their role as spiritual adviser.

Were it not for various interpretations of The Bible by The Church, homosexuality would not be the abomination it appears to be. Your faith cannot win under the laws of our nation. History and Biology will prove that this is a Civil Rights issue.

Well anyway, for many people in LA, Compton is much easier to get to than Westwood.

[John]

Jessica

You obviously flunked out of school or don't know how this country has progressed. No a last word is not the last word. Otherwise, Armenians would not be still allowed to buy houses in the central valley, Rosa Parks would still be sitting in the back of the bus and slaves would still be slaves etc.. This is a democracy. The "majority rule" is often described as a characteristic feature of democracy, but without responsible government it is possible for the rights of a minority to be abused by the "tyranny of the majority". (wickpedia). Sweethart God bless your soul and go back to school, and not Sunday school regular school.

[Tom]

Although I voted No on Prop. 8.; I accept the outcome of this vote and don't see much point trying to challenge it legally right now. It will come up again in another 10-15 years.
In the meantime, I do however support the organized protests against the Mormon, Catholic, Evangelical and other religious organizations that donated massive amounts of money to the Yes campaign to impose their views on others. It's time everyone realized that these organizations are intolerant, bigoted and are a threat to liberty. Groups like MoveON have been highly successful in countering the Republican party in the political arena; we need a MoveON organization to act as a permanent opposition to the religious right.

[Matt]

The will of the people does not always sync with the Constitution. Roe V. Wade, Brown v. Education. Especially that last- people voted for segregation laws. People voted for Hitler! The vote is a healthy check on our Courts, but the Courts are a healthy check on votes.

Animals that mate for life : swans, wolves, bald eagles. In every case, there are rare causes of homosexual pairings. It's rare, but not against God or nature...If nature forbade it, it wouldn't happen. Humans are not outside of nature, folks. It is arrogant to think so.

We don't want marriage to upset your religion or your values. We want to protect our kids and spouses with life insurance, with inheritance, with being able to be there in the hospital.

They don't teach straight marriage in schools, why should you teach gay marriage? You shouldn't.

And any church that gets involved in politics should loose its tax eempt status. Churches are for God, not for politics, so if the Church interferes in earthly things, it should pay earthly fines.

And sorry we don't believe you're not homophobes. To us, we are fighting for legal rights. You tell us we are against god, nature, "the order of things". That rhetoric sounds like hate, so forgive us for thinking it.

[Phil Stephens]

For all those who quote the bible, here is a letter to Dr. laura you should read

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

[stwsr]

Excuse me, but let's talk about race for a second. There are many minorities in Northern California, especially the Bay Area with its large population of Asians. Why did Prop 8 get defeated in those areas? Because the population in Northern California tend to be much more civic- and socially-minded than the self-obsessed populus of Southern California. Heck! Even Santa Barbara county voted no on Prop 8 and LA didn't. Explanation? Perhaps one can conclude that religious freaks and bible thumpers don't quite have the edge when it comes to intellect and tolerance.

[joe h]

Gays do have a right to marry...if it's someone of the opposite sex. Don't even compare Prop 8 to denying blacks the right to vote, blah blah. Heck, blacks overwhelming voted for Prop 8.

[amhopper]

"If you voted for this Proposition or support those who did or the sentiment they expressed, I have some questions, because, truly, I do not understand. Why does this matter to you? What is it to you? In a time of impermanence and fly-by-night relationships, these people over here want the same chance at permanence and happiness that is your option. They don't want to deny you yours. They don't want to take anything away from you. They want what you want—a chance to be a little less alone in the world.

Only now you are saying to them—no. You can't have it on these terms. Maybe something similar. If they behave. If they don't cause too much trouble. You'll even give them all the same legal rights—even as you're taking away the legal right, which they already had. A world around them, still anchored in love and marriage, and you are saying, no, you can't marry. What if somebody passed a law that said you couldn't marry?

I keep hearing this term "re-defining" marriage. If this country hadn't re-defined marriage, black people still couldn't marry white people. Sixteen states had laws on the books which made that illegal in 1967. 1967.

The parents of the President-Elect of the United States couldn't have married in nearly one third of the states of the country their son grew up to lead. But it's worse than that. If this country had not "re-defined" marriage, some black people still couldn't marry black people. It is one of the most overlooked and cruelest parts of our sad story of slavery. Marriages were not legally recognized, if the people were slaves. Since slaves were property, they could not legally be husband and wife, or mother and child. Their marriage vows were different: not "Until Death, Do You Part," but "Until Death or Distance, Do You Part." Marriages among slaves were not legally recognized.

You know, just like marriages today in California are not legally recognized, if the people are gay.

And uncountable in our history are the number of men and women, forced by society into marrying the opposite sex, in sham marriages, or marriages of convenience, or just marriages of not knowing, centuries of men and women who have lived their lives in shame and unhappiness, and who have, through a lie to themselves or others, broken countless other lives, of spouses and children, all because we said a man couldn't marry another man, or a woman couldn't marry another woman. The sanctity of marriage.

How many marriages like that have there been and how on earth do they increase the "sanctity" of marriage rather than render the term, meaningless?

What is this, to you? Nobody is asking you to embrace their expression of love. But don't you, as human beings, have to embrace... that love? The world is barren enough.

It is stacked against love, and against hope, and against those very few and precious emotions that enable us to go forward. Your marriage only stands a 50-50 chance of lasting, no matter how much you feel and how hard you work.

And here are people overjoyed at the prospect of just that chance, and that work, just for the hope of having that feeling. With so much hate in the world, with so much meaningless division, and people pitted against people for no good reason, this is what your religion tells you to do? With your experience of life and this world and all its sadnesses, this is what your conscience tells you to do?

With your knowledge that life, with endless vigor, seems to tilt the playing field on which we all live, in favor of unhappiness and hate... this is what your heart tells you to do? You want to sanctify marriage? You want to honor your God and the universal love you believe he represents? Then Spread happiness—this tiny, symbolic, semantical grain of happiness—share it with all those who seek it. Quote me anything from your religious leader or book of choice telling you to stand against this. And then tell me how you can believe both that statement and another statement, another one which reads only "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

You are asked now, by your country, and perhaps by your creator, to stand on one side or another. You are asked now to stand, not on a question of politics, not on a question of religion, not on a question of gay or straight. You are asked now to stand, on a question of love. All you need do is stand, and let the tiny ember of love meet its own fate.

You don't have to help it, you don't have it applaud it, you don't have to fight for it. Just don't put it out. Just don't extinguish it. Because while it may at first look like that love is between two people you don't know and you don't understand and maybe you don't even want to know. It is, in fact, the ember of your love, for your fellow person just because this is the only world we have. And the other guy counts, too.

This is the second time in ten days I find myself concluding by turning to, of all things, the closing plea for mercy by Clarence Darrow in a murder trial.

But what he said, fits what is really at the heart of this:

"I was reading last night of the aspiration of the old Persian poet, Omar-Khayyam," he told the judge. It appealed to me as the highest that I can vision. I wish it was in my heart, and I wish it was in the hearts of all: So I be written in the Book of Love; I do not care about that Book above. Erase my name, or write it as you will, So I be written in the Book of Love.""
- Keith Olbermann

[geena varezzi]

I am Latina and I voted No on Prop 8 but not because I'm in favor of same sex marraige- but becaise I believe that the path we set upon to change our consitution is a dangerous and that the process used in this election was flawed-
The lissue should have gone through the legislative process and then gone to a vote of the people-- than I would have voted Yes--

[Seadog]

SORE LOSERS! Just give it up. Your fighting is aginast SEXUAL Rights, not Human rights. Gays can vote, they can work, they can do everything, just not get married. So leave Marriage to us NORMAL people and be happy with Civil Unions.

[PDuff]

You said, it, Gordon!

"The United States is not a pure Democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic..."

Uneducated people of the mostly crappy parts of L.A., please put down the worn-out Bible, go visit a used bookstore and avail yourself of a basic history book so you can learn about the roles of the executive, legislative and judicial branches. Mob rule is just not how this country works, sorry!

Sincerely,

A former AP American History student (and yes, I passed!)

[Angelita]

If we vote one way and we win or lose and the other group doesn't like it then they challenge the Prop in court. Then why vote at all? What's the point? Lots of Props lost or won. I don't see the other side protesting or running to complain in front of the judge. I don't see any Republicans challenging Obama. And I'm sure many Republicans are really really unhappy.
Maybe we shouldn't have Props to vote for anymore? If the majority does not count, maybe we should have a monarchy? Let the king decide for us, like in the Middle Ages?

[Tim Charles]

For those protesting the Prop 8 results; get over it....the majority has spoken. But if you want to keep protesting....gee! I wonder why you don't protest in the streets of Compton instead of in front of the Morman church. I guess its just easier to pick on the Mormans. But you may need to be reminded of the voting breakdown in the LA Times below:
"Some of the strongest support for Proposition 8 was south of downtown L.A., among black and Latino voters. In Compton, 65% of voters said "yes," as did 60% in Huntington Park, 61% in Inglewood and 63% in Lynwood. Similar levels of support were evident in predominantly Latino cities to the east, including Whittier, El Monte, Baldwin Park and Pomona.
I'm waiting for the next news flash that you've organized a major protest in front of a large black church in Compton (Black ministers were among the strongest supporters). Maybe you could get a few hollywood celebrities to join you!!

[Cara]

I really don't understand the "Yes on 8" argument.

Look, if your particular church does not want to marry gay couples, no one is going to make it -- but why take your particular church's religious arguments and apply them statewide???

I mean, wouldn't we all find it offensive if the Catholic Church managed to ban divorce in California, and turned premarital sex into a felony? Or what if it became a misdemeanor to eat anything that wasn't Kosher???

So what's the difference, guys? There are some Christian Churches who will marry gay couples, and other religions as well -- so why are you inflicting your particular brand of religion on people of other faiths???

And how can this discrimination possibly "protect" traditional marriage??? During those months when California allowed gay marriages to occur, exactly HOW MANY married couples do you know who divorced because of it??? NONE!!!!! Your "traditional" marriage is perfectly well protected no matter what other folks do.

Very few people are mentioning that this entire fight almost exactly parallels the fights against legalizing interracial marriage... Then, too, we had vague "it's just not right" or "we must protect" arguments, with no logical reason given...because the real reason is an emotional one.

[Evalin Greene]

Wow.

Just wow.

For Prop 8: Marriage isn't some sacred practice. It was a historical transfer of property be it land or human. Don't have one foot in/one foot out about your morals/ traditions. It's something you THINK is sacred to whatever flavor of diety your choose. Facts and history first before you lament about current state of affairs.

Anti Prop 8: How dare you equate this with civil rights? I don't see any burning crosses, or detainment camps in your neighborhoods!
This is a moral issue and you have the right to get a slice of what America promises, freedom; but you do not have the right to loop yourself with people who foughtfor the right to be human, in the eyes of the law.

[Harley]

This is NOT about equal rights. It's about trying to change the definition of a well established and commonly understood word. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Period.

You can't call a triangle a square and expect people to accept it. Be a triangle, folks! Reject the historical institution of the square if you don't like it, and fight for all associated rights.

Geez!

[Devi]

It's interesting to me that generally speaking, the same people who are telling the gay community and its supporters to get over it are the same ones who over and over again put and vote for parental notification for underage girls. If they TRULY believed the voters had spoken, then maybe they should follow their own objections, lead by example, and stop putting bills like Prop 4 on the ballots when every time it's been presented, it's been voted down.

[Gordon]

The United States is not a pure Democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic.

The founders of this country were smart enough to realize that what is right isn't always what is popular.

That is why they laid out the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Anyone arguing that "the people have voted and that should be the end of it" apparently feels that mob rule supersedes the Constitution. Equal rights are guaranteed to all Citizens and the popular vote isn't worth a damn if it infringes on someone's basic human rights.

Proposition 8 denies religious freedom to churches (who are now barred from marrying gays even if they want to) and denies equal protection under the law to a minority based on their sexual orientation.

It is therefore a violation of both the 1st and the 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States, if you think mob rule is enough to pass laws in direct contradiction to the Constitution, then you are sorely mistaken.

[Jeff]

Since when is marriage a right? Can you marry an animal then? How about marrying a minor? Where does it all stop? The bottom line is we live in a democratic society and the people have spoken. I did not vote for Obama, but I must accept that he is our next president . . . the people have spoken. You can always have your say, but you can't always have your way!

[Karen]

Why is the LA times condoning the terrorist actions of this activitst group? They have hacked websites, vandalized property and made daily threats against people of faith. When are we going to say enough is enough?

[kristin]

It's not just a religious issues. Most Asian-Americans are not religious, but most of them voted in favor of Prop 8. There were many white, religious voters who voted against Prop 8, too. At the core, it is about gay marriage.

[Latin Lady]

Upfront I would like to state that I am a straight Latin woman raised Catholic who is first generation in this country (my entire family was born in Latin America)

Now...what is up with the Latin community voting Yes on 8? I am ashamed of my community for not supporting another minority groups civil rights. Understand that a person civil rights should not be influenced by any religous sect.

We must keep a strong seperation of church and state so that a person's civil rights are protected. Religion must not dictate how a person (religous or not) should be able to live their lives. And if this is the case, then lets call out all the latin men who cheat on their wives, all the latin women who have pre-marital sex that end in pregnancy, you get the message. Let us not be hypocrites!!!

[Julie]

Matthew,

That is like saying, "Yes, you can ride on the bus, but you have to sit at the back of the bus..." and another, "Yes, you can drink water but you cannot drink it from the same fountain that I am."

You are downgrading a certain group because of certain differences!

Civil union is not the same as a marriage!

What difference is it to you "hetereosexual couples" anyways? This isnt going to take away any GIVEN right to you. Let us be happy with the one person that we have decided to live our life with just as you have!

[Clint]

It is sad to read all of the hate-filled and stupid comments directed at gay men and lesbians in this forum. Yes Prop 8 won... because of bigotry and lies. But if you think for one second that we are going to give up the fight then you are more ignorant than your bigoted comments let on. This battle has just begun and I, for one, am perfectly willing to let it get ugly.

[Anon]

Please have courtesy to refrain from slandering a church you really have no idea about.

[Matthew]

I could not have said it better Edward! I also look at nature and I have never seen any homosexual animals. Everything has a a fundamental reflection of nature...male fits the female. Look at anything on your desk, pens, usb jacks, plugs on the wall, electric circuits. I mean I hate to get so basic but its all fundamentals. Like Edward said, put gays on an island for 40 years and what happens. No life will be created on that island. Just a bunch of sandy...never mind!
By the way what is wrong with a civil union? Why must you have what my wife (a women) and I have? You have everything we have except the name, marriage. Why not leave that alone, that is what this is about just the name. You can go down to the court house today and get a civil union license and live happily ever after!

[Joe of Hollywood]

If we were to go by vote totals, Prop 22 in 2000 passed with 61% of the vote. Prop 8 in 2008 passed with 52%. If the trend of the population towards support for same sex marriage continues, it is statistically possible for another ballot initiative to overturn Prop 8 in as little as four years. The activism and energy that is being generated by the protests is enough momentum to make this happen. The visibility of the protests and of gay men and lesbians in general is only going to help educate people. I predict that Prop 8 has a shelf life of ten years, at best.

[yours truly, Johnny Dollar]

Voters have spoken. "Never validate poor behavior."

[yours truly, Johnny Dollar]

"Thousands March in Protest of Prop 8."
again, the Lost Agenda Times has the wrong headline.
Correct headline would be:
"Millions and Millions Don't March/Have Spoken on Nov. 4."

[Barrett]

Once all these old bigoted dinosaurs have died off the change will come. Additionally, it is clear that the more educated you are the more likely one was to vote in opposition to PROP 8. This is yet another example of the less than unlighted electorate.

I think the next ballot measure should be to prohibit anyone over 60 from having sex, there no value, nothing good can come of it and it is biblical

[Nathan]

So, the real story is about the affluent white population, once again, asserting its power over the poor and minorities. If rich white people want it, they will get it, even if they have to force it down everyone's throats. After all, the opinion of the majority of minorities is more valuable than the opinion of the minority of the majority.

But, I forgot, those rich, white people have helped us out, so we owe them now and so we should just agree with them even if it violates our consciences and goes against our cherished cultural understanding of how marriage is defined.

[Aloannca]

So…the way I see it is that a high majority of people who have been victims of prejudice…are now voting for prejudice towards another group of people. Seems to me like they have quickly forgotten how it feels. If you are a minority and have any memories about the negative experiences you have suffered, you should be ashamed of yourself for voting for Prop 8. I am a married white straight female with children and I cannot imagine denying ANYONE the right to have this happiness. Get over yourself and stop supporting any form of prejudice.

[Charles Levin]

This would be a great time to deny the Mormons their religious protections. Their's is not a religion. They do not have a theology. If they do, it is secret. If it is secret, it is for good reason. The writings of their prophet-so called-are the ravings of a lunatic and are thus under lock and key, never to be made public again. There are no hermeneutics, no study of the book of mormon, and no commentary or historical criticism. Why? It is forbidden. Why? This is a crack pot polygamist's dream that does not require faith in God or Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit. Joseph Smith renounced them in order to create a new way. That way is the book of Mormon. A ridiculous comic book stolen from the Old Testament and filled with Zane Grey cowboys and indians and Jews and Jesus. This, I repeat, is not a religion, but a hoax. They shot Smith for the rapist he was. That is the theology of this Church. Serial Rape.

[Zach]

A tale of one city within the story of a state. Los Angeles didn't pass Prop 8 alone and people should remember that before getting all riled up about how the blacks or latinos done the gays wrong.

[Zach]

A tale of one city within the story of a state. Los Angeles didn't pass Prop 8 alone and people should remember that before getting all riled up about how the blacks or latinos done the gays wrong.

[Zach]

A tale of one city within the story of a state. Los Angeles didn't pass Prop 8 alone and people should remember that before getting all riled up about how the blacks or latinos done the gays wrong.

[Charles Levin]

Where does the Mormon and Catholic church get off defining marriage as a state which exists only between men and women. No church can directly or indirectly circumscribe anything in the laws of this land. The measure should never have been on a ballot, and certainly, not voted on. You cannot vote to take away the civil rights of another group of human beings. That is unconstitutional. You cannot vote by pleibiscite to claim privilege over societal norms. Say I wanted to define circumcision. Just for laughs. Or perhaps birth. Birth must be between a mother and her child, her male child. Problem?

[Edward Williams]

Does our vote really count these days, when we have to vote twice to go against the same issue? The people have spoken through Prop #8 and that should be the end of this issue but it isn't. The people have spoken, God has spoken and that should settle it, but we have people in the gay community that are just like the people of Sodom and Gomorrah that are insistent on pushing their will upon us.

The Bible condems this lifestyle as sin in Leviticus 18 and Romans chapter 1, just to name two. The Penal Code describes Sodomy as a crime, a Felony in fact all over the world Sodomy is a crime and yet we are asked to legalize a criminal act. This is an unnatural act and we need to repent and turn from wickeness, why is there even a question on this topic.

The courts have already granted too much in delving out civil unions and now they want more, when is enough enough; can we come back to morality in this nation and stop being afraid to tell this community of homosexual individuals they are wrong? We have no problem telling the robbersy suspect he is wrong, we have no problem telling the rapist he or she is wrong and there is no problem identifying the child molester as a criminal but when it comes to sodomy we become blind. Incidently that is what happened to the men who wanted to have sex with the angels in Sodom and Gomorrah, the angels struck them blind and today they still have not regained their sight.

Can we man up and tell the Governor he is wrong, the Calfiornia Supreme Court they are wrong and the bleeding heart liberals they are wrong? Oh, we did already, we voted twice and said it loud and clear it is sin! Marriage is between a man and a woman ONLY, if you placed the homosexual males on an island and left them all there for 40 years would there be any increase in their society or would the numbers fade away? Marriage is for procreation and not for your recreation, so we need to understand that marriage is a Judeo/Christian institution and there is no biblical or secular foundation to support that homosexuals are born as gay individuals as a Black man is born or an Asian man. We were a country that had a level of morality but we have lost our way.

America wake up and come back to God. God bless

[vito]

I wish the gays would grow up and accept defeat. They need to be men about this but then I remember that they are gay...
Vito