LAPD braces for Prop. 8 protest in West L.A., vows to be prepared*

More than 3,000 protesters marched near the landmark Los Angeles California Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Westwood today to protest the church's strong support for Proposition 8. Santa Monica Boulevard is closed and nearby traffic is gridlocked.

Opponents of Proposition 8, which outlawed gay marriage in California, were waving banners and chanting. A similar protests occurred on Wednesday night in Hollywood and West Hollywood.

Los Angeles Police Department officials say they won't be caught off-guard as they were last night, when they were required to call a tactical alert after a few members of the mostly peaceful crowd got out of hand. The protest is scheduled to begin at 2 p.m. off Santa Monica Boulevard.

In the wake of the passage of the state proposition banning gay marriage, Wednesday night saw thousands protest in West Hollywood and Hollywood, forcing police to shut down some streets and the LAPD to call a citywide tactical alert that required officers from one watch to stay on duty during the next watch.

At least seven people were arrested, four at the intersection of Hollywood and Highland, where one man jumped on top of a police car. Television cameras captured one protester struggling with officers and being struck on the legs by batons.

The Mormon temple is apparently being targeted because of church members' funding and support of the proposition.

* Update: Another protest is planned for later this afternoon in West Hollywood near the Pacific Design Center. The MTA says streets will be closed and buses rerouted. Details from the MTA statement:

Metro has received word that there will be additional Prop. 8 demonstrations this afternoon and evening and [L.A. County Sheriff's Department]  will be closing San Vicente from Melrose to Santa Monica Boulevard starting at 4 p.m. until the streets are cleared, which could go into the late evening. There will be no traffic including buses allowed to go north on San Vicente.  During this time, Metro will need to reroute buses to Robertson to go north and then east on Santa Monica Blvd.

**Update 2: Metro corrected their earlier statement, saying the Sheriff's Department currently has "no formal plan to close San Vicente Boulevard between Santa Monica Boulevard and Melrose Avenue this evening."

-- Richard Winton and Rong-Gong Lin II

Photo credit: Barbara Davidson / Los Angeles Times

Comments

[Pierce Devol]

God Loves all People, Whoever it was that says all religions believe homosexuality is wrong, in North Hollywood and West Hollywood there is a coalition of churches who fought that band!

God Loves everyone, even the Mormons who passed that act of De Jurre Segregation.

[jason]

We in the gay community should also be protesting in front of the black churches. Don't give the black community a pass on this. They are heavily influenced by Christian fundamentalism.

[wendy]

joe martin, what you said is despicable. you should be embarrassed. i can see this proposition has brought out the worst (along with the best) in people. that people can't get over themselves (you're anthropomorphic as anyone else joe), and realize that allowing gay people to get married will not affect anyone else's life, marriage, children, or their children's educations just amazes me. Intolerance is not acceptable.

[Jessi]

In case you ignorant people haven't realized yet. Mormons accounted for only 2% of the YES vote. That leaves 98% of the YES votes left to everyone else. Why can't you all pick someone better to blame. Maybe you need to realize that the majority of society has chosen a YES vote.

[brettrix]

Marriage isn't a right... so amending the Constitution to define a term is perfectly legal.
can't gays call it something other than marriage? if you have the same protections and benefits in a civil union, why would you even want it to be called a marriage... they usually end in divorce.

maybe we can come up with a nice term for gay marriage - how about gayriage?

[Tom]

75% of Kern County voted for Prop. 8. Many other counties were nearly that close. The Mormons did do much to fund Prop 8, but they did not make anyone agree with them. 52% of the state agreed with them. Trust me, the Mormons would love it if they could be that successful in getting people to agree with them. Look at all the guys on bikes, it is not like they don't work at it. This was not a Mormon issue. How many of the huge percentage of Blacks that voted for 8 are Mormons, or have ever set foot in a Mormon church? A lot of the Christians just took a brief truce, and now that Prop 8 is over with, are right back to preaching that Mormons are a wackazoid cult.

If this was a Mormon issue, then polls show that 65% of America is solidly Mormon. If that is the case, I am opening me a bicycle factory.

[SUE]

I HAVE an IDEA!!!!

SINCE the WHOLE 70,000 dollars of money raised for YES PROP 8 came from someone who believes in God...and Traditional Marriage....
from some CHURCH in the world...
...LET's just PROTEST against BELIVERS in GOD...and CHURCHES...and ANYONE who thinks differently than US...
That would show the CHRISTIAN MORMON MUSLIM CATHOLIC JEWS!

(If I had a sarcastic emotioncon, I would add it here!)

Now we can all act like godless Communists...
who actually support Gay Rights but not freedom of religion...

MOVE to RUSSIA
You can sleep and marry whoever you want and they'll burn down the churches they don't agree with you.

IF one more person SAYS MORMON....
LIKE HITLER said JEW....I am going to PUKE...

[evy]

Christian Voice, as a heterosexual woman, I don't appreciate one religious view (yours) dictating what is moral/immoral. It's amazing how much as a society we've progressed (as evidenced by Tuesday's Presidential acceptance speech) and yet some still insist on being devisive and opressing another minority group. Humans are Humans with basic inalienable rights. It's time to EVOLVE, fellow Humans.

[AR]

Marriage is sacred, so quit complaining. Election was held and all of you losers lost. People have spoken. Court and government should not decide on what marriage is. Court and government should call it a legal partnership and develop a definition for it, and then apply all the rights they want. But marriage should stay with churches, temples, etc. Government should issue partnerships licences and not marriage licences.

So all of you losers quit complaining, get off the streets and just move on.

[Lane]

Religion is man made. Someone's religious beliefs should not rule out others rights. I agree we should target the churches for all their injustices. I think we need to attack them big time. They are the enemy and we should attack them non-violently, but in ways that will give them less power. Jesus has killed more people than he has saved.

[Jake Hess]

If you look at homosexuality from a Christian perspective, the Bible calls it a sin, pure and simple. If you are a Christian than you 'BELIEVE' what God says.

If you're not a Christian, you don't believe the Bible, therefore you will not accept what God says. Therein lies the difference. Having said that, If your a Christian you 'know' that God calls it a sin like other sins (alcoholism, adultery, lying, etc. etc.) and therefore should consider such a person as, 'a sinner before God that, needs to turn to Him.

[Johnny]

James - So...what are those "wacky" beliefs you speak of? Is it just that mormons have VALUES??? Is that what you can't live with? Maybe you should learn a little more about the church before you open your ignorant mouth!

[Hugo]

Who cares what the majority thinks, the majority makes mistakes all the time, and when they do, the minority must fight until they get equality.

If we deferred to the majority all the time, the civil rights movement never had happened.

If you yes on 8 homophobes want to protect family, go ban divorce.

[Ben]

Good for you BudSD. But remember, its not just gay men and women who will refuse to allow this discrimination to stand... Its 47 (and growing) percent of CA residents. Its the young and free. Its anyone who looks back on how far our country has come in accepting its minorities as equals, and is unwilling to let things slide back to those times past that we feel so ashamed of now. Demographics are changing, and times will change alongside. Bigotry is aging, and equality is taking its place. Prop 8 WILL fall eventually, and as JTS said, history will judge its proponents harshly.

[So Sick of This]

This entire situation is pretty sad. First let me say I am an African American woman, Baptist and I voted Yes on 8. From the way I see things, this is not a fight over rights this is a fight over the word "Marriage". Everyone I know who also voted Yes on 8 are entirely for equal rights for Gays. The two sides just have different views on how to achieve this.

At its core, marriage is a religious ceremony and has been since the first marriage was performed thousands of years ago. The state has afforded rights to this institution and that's what the fight should be about. However, the fact that marriage has been assigned certain rights does not negate the fact that it is, always have been and still is a religious ceremony!!! While I realize that it has to be hurtful to realize that people who believe in God have to believe the homosexuality is wrong. That's where the separation of church and state begin. As a Christian I am taught that marriage is between a man and a woman. This is what God has deemed. However, as an individual who believes in fairness I do believe that Gays should have the same rights as straights. However, just leave religion out of it and call it whatever you want.

I keep hearing discrimination and bigotry. When I honestly think that most of the ignorance and intolerance is coming from the Gay community. The refusal to respect Religious beliefs is very sad and offensive. The truth of the matter is, if there was a prop on the ballot to expand the rights of civil unions/domestic partnerships so that they are the same as hetero marriage this issue could finally be settled. However, if the Gay community continues to attack religion (which is ironic since what they're fighting for is the right to use religious terminology), I will continue to vote against it. Not because I see it as being oppressive to a group of people but because I will always stand up for my Religious beliefs.

"Marriage" is a term used by Religions to signify the union of a man and woman in matrimony, what's wrong with asking you to come up with your own? One that doesn't infringe on my beliefs?

[Cora]

I seriously doubt that we would be celebrating today the promise and hope of President-Elect Obama had the laws of segregation, touting "separate but equal", governed his childhood, young adulthood and family life.

Gay people are simply a minority that the far-right now uses to instill fear into its masses and rally them to take up arms in a false armageddon. Scary Gay people are really just like a mirage in the desert- only when you get up close to us, you see we are working parents with mortgages, car payments, school loans, with parents close to retirement, and kids in school. We are professionals, blue-collar types, artist, trades people, and, yes, in the military. We worry about the future of our children and sacrifice for them on a daily basis. Marriage is in fact a right. A right to deal with all of these challenges and responsibilities with the same legal leverage that our straight counterparts have.

So, are civil unions and marriage the same thing? No, because while "separate but equal" may suggest that the service rendered is the same, it explicitly says the individual is somehow deficient. And that is not equality before the law.

[junya]

I have a phd and I believe in God. I also believe in the sanctity of marriage as a union between a man and a woman which would result in a family. SF showed how loud they'd be if 8 was not passed. They already took a kindergarten class to a gay wedding and called it "educational." OBAMA BELIEVES MARRIAGE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN. He said he did, as did Biden. This is not a civil rights issue. How dare you say being gay is the same as being black. There is nothing perverted about being black.

[Robert Kalonian]

Re: Look at the math, over 52% voted "YES on Prop 8", yet less than 2% of the population gets the whole blame for Prop 8 passing. Sounds a lot like Germany in the 1930s blaming all their problems on the Jews. Now who are the ones radiating HATE?

Cal: You're an idiot and cleary desperate for a good comeback for comparing Jews, who were butchered and murdered for doing nothing wrong, to Mormons, who like you said made up 2% of the electorate but poured tens of millions into a campaign to write hate and bigotry into our Constitution.

[mtnjak]

I'm so amazed at comments like "See Mormons? See! This is what happens when you push your wacky beliefs into everyone's private lives!" The PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA not just mormons have spoken here. And they also spoken in Arizona and Florida. Whatever happened to liberals who used to preach tolerance of others ideas and beliefs? I guess tolerance is only ok as long as it's liberal ideas and beliefs.

[joe martin]

VIVIAN: If You don't like it move to Iran.

[James]

There is a famous saying in this country:

'History is on our side'.

Look at the % of people aged 18-30 that voted No on 8. It is only a matter of time until Gay and Lesbian people get full rights all over the US.

Religious folks, you better hope Jesus comes back and clarifies his position (he's been MIA these past 2000 years). If not the youth will change everything. Your time is running out, and your ugliness will be a wart on the history of American civil rights..

The youth of this country is the Change we can believe in.

[TKW]

Every claim made by someone in a position to officially represent the "Yes on 8" campaign was substantiated by a direct reference to the source, or a specific example of something that actually occurred. Sorry, but you can't say the same about the opponents to Prop 8.

[Action Jackson]

For all those wanting to boycott businesses that supported Prop 8, I say then that all those that did support prop 8 should boycott business that were in opposition to Prop 8.

Why don't both sides STOP THE HATE and move on.

[Josh]

I am a gay in Utah. I do not feel I am discriminated by those around me, especially the Mormons since I am surrounded by them. They are nice and polite with me. As far as Mike and I are concerned, I guess I feel Mike and I know we love each other. The term 'marriage' says no where in there that it is a love binding agreement. Hetrosexual couples get married all the time and don't love one another. So by saying we want to marry because then it shows we love one another, why should I care what anyone else thinks but the two of us? He knows I love him and vice versa. We own a home together and if we separated would have a whole legal battle with the house just like anyone else would. We also both have a living will directing our assest to one another in the event of a death. I feel I have all the same rights as my neighbors. We respect others opinions and the law. We make sure we have the laws we are entitled to by educating ourselves. Why can't we just agree to disagree?

[Nate C]

"But while we're at it I am for constitutional ammendments against the following groups that slightly annoy me.
-People that still write checks at the grocery store
-People that have super bright headlights on SUVs in the middle of the city
-People that save entire rows of seats at the movie theater using combinations of sweaters, purses, and hats"

-- evan

Hilarious! How about some others:

-People who take forever to leave their parking stall, when they know you're waiting to pull in.
-Grunty-dudes at the gym.
-People who rinse their hands but don't use soap after peeing. (Seriously, you might as well just keep 'em dry!)
-People who have to try every sample at Costco, and leave their cart blocking the aisles to have their free vitamin-gummy-bear.

...people that sill write checks at the grocery store... awesome! :)

[Vivien]

The country was not founded on Christian values as promoted by the modern day inquisitors in the Christian churches today. I laugh at the people on this board who obviously never read an iota of American history. Check out what Deism is ... and then come back and tell me this maps to the Mormon or Catholic or Cripsy-on-Jesus evangelical faiths of today.

Some highlights on the history of the oh-so-moral people in the Christian faith:

1. The Dutch church endorsing slavery
2. The Catholic church endorsing slavery
3. The Mormon massacre of settlers in the Mountains Meadows massacre
4. The Mormon exclusion of blacks and Indians from their church
5. The splinter Mormons who 'marry' young girls against their will forcing them to join their sick harems
6. The Catholic support of Nazism and the subsequent assistance of Nazi war criminals' escape post-WWII
7. The KKK membership of many Christians in the American Deep-South
8. The forced conversion and child abduction perpetuated by Mormon, Catholic and Evangelical missionaries in the 3rd world
9. The bilking of millions of dollars from gullible old people by the Evangelical preaches Jim Bakker, Jerry Falwell, Pat Roberston
10. The blaming of 9/11 on gays by Pat Robertson
11. The Inquisition and Salem Witch Burnings

Need I go on???

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" ...

I guess you morons never made it past the Old Testament.

[Brian]

There is no difference between this issue and blacks having to sit in the back of the bus. In 10 years from now, anyone who supported Yes on 8 is going to look like a pathetic KKK member does today. If the government didn't recognize marriage AT ALL, then it wouldn't be an issue. No gay wants the pathetic Mor(m)on Church or the Catholic Church to marry them, just the government like ANYONE ELSE. Anyone who believes otherwise is going to look like a backward redneck hick in time if they already don't. Most of the Yes Vote came from the POOR and UNEDUCATED areas of LA.

[Maria]

Whether it's Muslims, Catholics, Jews, Mormons, or Protestants we are just as rabid about stopping this insanity as the Gay community is in pushing their agenda.

You will find an equal and powerful reaction to whatever you do! Bring it on we're ready.

[Ed Kimble]

Instead of protesting in front of a Mormon church, we should be protesting in front of the IRS offices for not immediately stripping tax exempt status from the churches who spent more than $40 million on Prop 8 and Prop 4. If churches can afford to spend this kind of money sowing hatred, they can darn sure pay some taxes. And right now the state of California can use all the tax revenue it can get. END THE TAX FREE RIDE FOR CHURCHES!

[stever]

>> "Marriage" is a term used by Religions to signify the union of a man
>> and woman in matrimony, what's wrong with asking you to come up
>> with your own? One that doesn't infringe on my beliefs?

I think that is well thought out, but I come to a different conclusion: if the word "Marriage" is such a strong religious-only word, why does the state of California use it? I hereby suggest that the word "marriage" be removed from civil laws such that there is no such contest for the word. Each religion can use it in their own context.

[Rick]

I grew up in Boulder Colorado in the late sixties/early seventies, no, not here in California but I'm sure it was the same across the country. Those were difficult times in many ways with the entire nation trying to find itself and establish a new identity.

This being said, throughout my public education in Colorado (and I'm sure it was the case here as well), personal choices were never brought into the schools...not once was religion, marriage, sex or even race discussed, we focused on the core education we needed as K-12 students and our personal decisions were left up to us.

The difficult situation the gay marriage proponents have laid before parents like myself (I have a son and a daughter in the public school system), is that these topics, and the personal agendas of individual educators, are being presented to our children without any regard for my families beliefs or desires. This fundamental right was taken from me.

Personally I wish we could return our public forums to the state that they were in when I was growing up, an environment where children were shielded from these topics and could make decisions (religion, political, sexual preferences, etc.) for themselves without others trying to push their own agenda.

In my case both my son (in Junior High) and my daughter (K-5) came home after their respective teachers discussed homosexual relations (my son) and gay marriage (my daughter) as something that should be considered as appropriate "lifestyle" choices and the students should consider them as such. I was dumb-founded. I spoke with the district officials and they gave a lot of lip service but in the end said that they couldn't do anything about it. When I grew up, this would not have been tolerated at all...in fact the teacher would have been dismissed immediately...not that they were discussing gay issues, but for discussing something other than reading, writing and arithmetic.

In the end, I supported Prop. 8 in that it was an essential step to return my freedom as a father to discuss these very personal and individual choices with my children by myself without outside influences that I may or may not agree with , that right has been restored. For those who feel hurt, I feel badly for them and wish they could have enjoyed the legal status they had without pushing their agenda upon my children...if they had left the parenting to the parents (gay or heterosexual), we would have seen a completely different outcome.

[liz]

There was actually a protest against the mormon church last weekend in Salt Lake City featuring mormon mother's with gay children. The irony is that mormons claim they came to the west to escape persecution and persue religious freedom. Now they use their power and money to the tune of 20 million dollars to deny other people their freedom. Not only that but they are using their members donated tithing money that is supposed to be going towards building temples and humane efforts. They are not the only group who used power to spread hate, but they are one of them and they should be held accountable for their actions.

[Gavo]

The Mormon church IS wacky. But they are in no way wackier than any other church or religion. They deserve ridicule as much as all of the other faiths do. And they deserve condemnation when they try to impose their beliefs on others.

[So Sick of This]

One final comment, for all of you who think God will judge me harshly for voting yes on 8, why would he/she when all I'm doing is following his/her word.

It's also sad that people who disagree with you are determined to be hate filled bigots. If that's the case I could say the same thing about those who voted No on 8. However, I won't because the truth of the matter is I do understand your struggle, I just wish you could try to understand where I was coming from as well. This will never be settled until there is a compromise on both sides.

[Nils]

Gays go against God ? There is no God you dopes , its an invention for scared , bigoted idiots . Its to justify the selfish and ignorant behavior that you 'Christians ' and other child abusing herd followers use . And they should be called MORONS and not Mormons anyway , their "founder" , a con artist , was visited by the 'angel Moroni . Go look it up . Love and kisses

[Sashland]

Amidst all the noise and punditry everyone seems to miss the point: marriage is not a right, it is a LICENSE granted by the state.

Its is a societal construct, a legal entity, created and administered by government agencies. Policy makers (elected officials) both create and implement the policies. The Public Good and the betterment of society are the subjective goals. That means the majority rules.

Gay Marriage advocates have attempted to ENFORCE their views through Judicial decisions. The voters then react to overturn the change in policy enforced by the Judiciary, sometimes twice.

Gay Marriage advocates should have been working on convincing society at large of their cause rather than antagonizing the public by Judicial end-runs.
They need to convince society that it should change, not try to force it.The law is not on their side and it s the wrong method. Their arrogant approach probably set back their cause by 20 years now that they have helped create the reactive Federal Ban and State Constitutional bans.

Now they have to deal with dissolving "marriages" and the legal mess they purposely created...

[Nate C]

"75% of Kern County voted for Prop. 8. Many other counties were nearly that close. The Mormons did do much to fund Prop 8, but they did not make anyone agree with them. 52% of the state agreed with them. Trust me, the Mormons would love it if they could be that successful in getting people to agree with them. Look at all the guys on bikes, it is not like they don't work at it. This was not a Mormon issue. How many of the huge percentage of Blacks that voted for 8 are Mormons, or have ever set foot in a Mormon church? A lot of the Christians just took a brief truce, and now that Prop 8 is over with, are right back to preaching that Mormons are a wackazoid cult.

If this was a Mormon issue, then polls show that 65% of America is solidly Mormon. If that is the case, I am opening me a bicycle factory."

-- Tom

HAHA - this one gets my vote for funniest post yet. I mean, "writing checks at the grocery store" was good - but this is hilarious! "It's not like they don't work at it." =D

Can I be a co-owner in that factory? We'd need to invent a bike that doesn't snag slacks and protects your ties from splash-backs.

[LnRN]

Well, how about this...all the churches that contributed money and preached about the evils of gay marriage and riled up everyone about the virus of homosexuality...lets petition the state and federal government to remove their tax exempt status. I do believe there are federal statutes that expressly forbid religious institutions from interfering or contributing to political issues.

how do you like that?

[Greenpoint Guy]

Ours is a system of checks and balances.

The majority can "speak", but the courts exist as a check and balance to protect minorities.

The courts decide whether or not a majority ruling is constitutional, i.e., whether or not it treats a minority class of citizens in a seperate, or unequal way.

The California courts have already ruled once that a law passed by the majority regarding gay marriage was unconsitutional.

They will no doubt do so again.

The majority is simply going to have to learn how to accomodate the minority.

That's the American way.

[Patrick]

Civil rights should never be left to popular vote. Where would slavery be, segregation, women's rights? Thank God they were not left to the popular vote. The more a group of people is oppressed, the quicker someone will step in and do what's right -- and in this case, it will be the courts. And now, we've been pushed hard enough that it will go national, with a "liberal" White House, Congress, and soon to be Supreme Court. Thanks for voting yes on prop 8.

[Jake Hess]

Evy,
You suggested 'homosexuals' are a 'minority group. Once again it could be said,
thieves are a minority group, adulterers, and even murderers.

If we look at the subject from a spiritual perspective, than we have to look at 'what does the Bible say? On the other hand, if we begin to separate the many differences that abound, (from a humanistic viewpoint) than why not include those who have, perverse appetites. to be fair. they would have to be considered minority groups as well. How far do, we as a society, carry this argument?

[Dean]

Dave.

"I am still waiting for someone to show me one right the gays lost because they can't marry. Marriage itself is NOT a right. Gays still have ALL the legal benefits and then some."

There are still circumstances where DPs are not given the same consideration as spouses. When a loved one is hospitalized the spouse is the first one notified and often the only one allowed full access visitation and decision making. Marriage is a state sanctioned legal standing. If someone wants to assign spiritual, holy,God given status to it for their own purposes that 's fine. Otherwise, as far as the state is concerned, it is simply a legal status. I don't see why gender has anything to do with that.

[Lisa]

Seriously?? All of this..seriously?? There are two sides to everything...Personally I say if they want to be married and be miserable like some 60% of the population then let them...it's their lives let them do what they want...plus the sanctity of marriage has already been destroyed by much of hollywood and those lovely couples that cheat on each other day in and day out...yeah that's a sacred institution...

However, I'm pretty sure there is supposed to be a separation of church and state...people will always vote based on their values that often times are influenced by their religion...just like the people that voted no on prop 8 are voting based on their values...
Protesters, you can't make it seem like the values of people who voted yes don't count, and only your values do because THAT is unfair also...we had an election to make this issue get handled as fairly as possible, and unfortunately for you prop 8 was passed...attacking churches to prove a point to the state only makes you look irrational & hateful...and aren't you protesting hate??

Remember, this is the real world and MOST of the time things don't go your way...you can't help what the majority decides so just live and let live and be a good person...geez..

[JSinIrvine]

Well, since the MORmON church has decided to inject themselves into the legal & political system by putting so much money into prop 8, I think it's time to rescind their cult.. uh, I meant their "church's" tax exempt status.

Be afraid, bible thumpers. With a liberal democrat president and a large majority in both houses of congress, it might happen....

I hope it does. It would be nothing but sweet justice for you bible thumping bigots.

[Joel]

The bottom line is that the same democratic process that produced Barack Obama as President also passed Proposition 8. You can't pick and choose your democracy.

[Clark]

Dave, see Jake's comment. That's just one example. In order to have all of the same rights that marriage brings, gays and lesbians must pay exorbitant legal fees along with the domestic partnership paperwork. This is NOT equal treatment under the rules of the constitution. Perhaps we should all send our legal bills to the State of California and ask them to pay the lawyer fees for setting up Domestic Partnerships. If nothing else, it will soften the blow.

There are legal challenges to this "amendment". By belief is that it WILL fall, likely sooner than later. It stinks to high heaven and flagrantly contradicts other portions of the constitution. "The people decided." ?!?!? Again, you seem to mistakenly believe that with a simple majority rules declaration that you win. LOL. Thank goodness the framers of the Constitution saw fit to address this. The fact that this "amendment" took place with only a slight majority and before the State Legislature voted on it (and 2/3 voted "yes" on it) strikes me as suspect in itself. People voted "yes" after being told a lot of lies. Now that everything is in the light of day, let's see how well it holds up.

And to all of the people who decry the actions of "activist judges", I suggest you go back and revisit your American History and the functions of the different structures of U. S. Government. It is the job of judges to INTERPRET constitutional law. They don't just make this stuff up. It's all written down in the Constitution already. You like to call them "activist" only when you don't agree with their interpretation. Annoying isn't it? When that pesky Constitution keeps getting in the way.

Finally, please explain how a gay marriage suddenly invalidates or affects a straight marriage. Will you suddenly become divorced?

For what it's worth, I also deplore the violence.

[Kate]

Junya, if you have a PHD you know obviously went to enough school to understand that homosexuality has been around as long as humanity has... it isn't a choice, it isn't wrong, and its not perverted.

Legal marriage IS a civil right in our country... if it wasn't they wouldn't have to make laws and govern it.

[Martha]

Church of LDS members have donated about 40 percent of the $22.8 million raised to pass the initiative since July 2008, according to Frank Schubert, campaign manager for ProtectMarriage.com, the primary backer of the "yes" campaign.

Other religious groups have contributed, including a Catholic fraternal service organization – the Knights of Columbus – which donated more than $1 million.

But no group has given more than the Mormons.

I repeat: NO GROUP has given MORE than the Mormons.

[Kyla]

I think only a man and a woman should have the right to marry. I am atheist, but I just believe this. The purpose of marriage is to have a family and offspring. Call it whatever else, but not marriage.

Very well. If the only purpose of "marriage" is to breed, then let's restrict it to only fertile couples who intend to reproduce. Post-menopausal females will no longer be legally allowed to marry. If you've had a vasectomy or tubal and want to remarry, too bad. Survivor of testicular, ovarian or uterine cancer? Nope. Any couple seeking a marriage license will be required to be tested to prove fertility and any marriage that has failed to produce a child within five years will be automatically annulled. Seems fair to me. No offspring=no marriage. The old, infertile, unable and/or unwilling are, of course, welcome to shack up as they wish and can share what legal protections are left to the nonreproductive.

The truth is lots of heterosexuals get married for lots of reasons other than reproduction, but nobody's suggesting (yet) that they not be allowed to marry just because they can't or choose not to have children.

[Ben]

I am still waiting for someone to show me one right the gays lost because they can't marry. Marriage itself is NOT a right. Gays still have ALL the legal benefits and then some. The only thing they can't do is use the term marriage when they form relationships together. They can't refer to the relationship as a marriage. Big deal. They have EVERYTHING else. Why do they insist on ruining what thousands of years of traditional marriage means (for everyone else) just so they can be called "married".
The ONLY reason for such a desire (to be called "married") is to be accepted by the non-gay community. Except for the name, Domestic Partnerships give gays the same rights as anyone else. That's why GAYS DON'T NEED TO BE MARRIED. It's just not necessary.
The people decided. Having a rally is fine, but don't get violent and don't vandalize property. The sore losers that are going after the LDS church for this loss are miss directed and are hurting their cause in the long run. I have respect for gays, but I won't have respect for anyone who resorts to violence just because they don't like the outcome of the election.

Posted by: Dave | November 06, 2008 at 12:37 PM

hey dave,

Then why it was a big deal when Rosa Park so brave to sit in front of the bus? I mean, she have the right to ride the bus but just have to sit in the back. Yes, gay still have the same benefit but that doesn't make it right.

I'm not comparing black discrimination to gay discrimination. I just want to give an example to Dave that he is wrong.

[kevin]

hmmm, protesting hate on one group by focusing hate on another group. that makes a lot of sense...

[Nunya]

Adam and Eve.....NOT Adam and Steve....

How do all the homosexuals and lesbians think they got on this earth...if it wasn't for their parents, a MAN and a WOMAN....they would not have even been conceived .....the only exception to this is invetro fertilization and that is for women who have trouble getting pregnant....not a gay couple who can't have kids... because GOD didn't create them to have children and populate the world that way.....

i am a Christian and not a Mormon...i think that the protestors should go to the other churches and groups as expressed like the other notes left here....

[An American]

Wow, the people have voted in a majority in favoure of prop 8. Our country is run on the majority and the majority have spoken, if this prop is so unconstitutional and bigoted, the federal supreme court would have done something about it. I dont belive prop 4 should have failed, but you dont see me throwing a temper tantrum in front of abortion clinics. THIS IS AMERICA WHERE WE VOTE FOR WHAT WE WANT, AND THE MAJORITY HAVE VOTED IN FAVOR OF PROP 8, GET OVER IT!

[Amused and Saddened]

It's been both amusing and a bit disheartening to read the anger that begets even more anger, from both sides.

The advertising to vote for 8 didn't make people vote Yes any more than the advertising to vote against 8 made people vote No. People voted their conscience. Anyone with trouble wants someone or something to blame. In this case, anyone unhappy that 8 won wants to blame the easiest target, which is seems has become the Mormons.

[ronnie]

in response to 'dave' who truly believes that marriage isn't a right and that gays haven't been denied any rights.....

wikipedia has a page explaining civil unions. here are some major differences:

1. civil unions are not recognized by the federal government.
2. civil unions are not recognized in all 50 states, denying many rights if they need to move or should be traveling in another state.
3. the rights granted by civil unions very from state to state, some not offering any at all.

If the federal government does not have to recognize civil unions, any right given by a civil union can be challenged in a federal court.

You want us all to believe that marriage is strictly a religious union, but it is also a legal union that affords straights many rights that aren't awarded to gay civil unions. I didn't look into the specifics but there are over 1,300 specific rights that married couples have that civil unions don't recognize.

Anyone that thinks this is equal is deluding themselves. It is sad the lies and untruths that have been told. Shame on anyone who voted for Prop 8 thinking that civil unions were exactly the same without doing the research.

I will love who I love, with or without your approval; but as long as I am a tax paying citizen, I don't appreciate my taxes paying for legislation that denies me rights ensured to me by the constitution of the United States and the constitution of California.

[BirthdayBoy]

For those who are targeting the Church of Jesus Chirst of Latter Day Saints.... here is the Churches official statement.

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-releases-stories/church-responds-to-same-sex-marriage-votes#continued

[Wondering about Speilberg]

Has anyone else heard anything about Steven Spielberg planning to move any future movie operations he is involved with to Massachusetts?

[Concerned about California]

I heard another protest is scheduled for Saturday. Does anyone have information on this? We have a caravan from Palm Springs coming...

[John Coleman]

This reminds me of the vote we had in Ireland last summer, on the EU Lisbon Treaty. We voted No, yet are being told to go back and do it again and this time get the right answer. It seems to certain people and causes, democracy is only to be respected when advancing their own agendas.

[larry mason]

Why are the whiners opposing a democratic decision by the people of California? Then the attack against a church is foul and barbaric. Convince a majority that your position is correct unless you are too lazy or intellectually bankrupt. Of course for the emotionally stunted it is much more fun to make an ass of oneself in the streets.

[Mark]

How sick that the voices of tolerance are directing such hatred towards a religious minority. Wacky beliefs? 46 states now prohibit same sex marriage, 30 of them by constitutional amendments. In the 27 states that enacted constitutional amendments before Nov. 4, the average "yes" vote was 69%. Gays can go on shouting that 52% of Californians are bigots and that 69% of people in 27 other states are bigots. Go right ahead. You are damaging your cause with your childish antics like little kids in a sandbox. Marriage is for people of opposite sex. Gays have all the rights of marriage through domestic partnerships and California has the strongest anti-discrimination laws in the nation for homosexuals. Go to work and act like respectful citizens instead of cry babies.

[Fred]

Gotta love those nutty Californians. This is more entertaining than anything on TV.

[Marty]

No one is denied his/her rights by Prop 8. Everyone has the exact same right. To have your marriage recognized by the government, you need to meet certain conditions. One is that the marriage be between a man and a women. It's not exclusive to heterosexuals. Homosexuals' rights are not infrnged upon because there are limits on who they can marry. Those limits apply to eveyone who seeks to have their marriage recognized. A gay person would certainly not want to be married under this condition, but s/he is not denied the right to be married. Someone who loves to drive fast is not discriminated against because there are speed limits. The limits appy to everyone. If you feel the limits on marriage should be removed, don't say it's because it denies someone his/her rights. Also, be prepared to remove any other limits (age requirements, blood-relations, multiple partners, etc.)

[Peter]

How about pedophilia, polygamy ? They want to get married too ? Lets grant rights to them as well, they were born like this !!! Teachers having sex with students should be accepted as a norm. So, whoever wants to get away being immoral lets blame it on equality, God, and justice, right ??? There should be a limit and we as the people have drawn the line. Get over and share your love with each other, and leave us alone or you will make the matters worse. Get a life.....elections are over!!!!!!!!!

[Brad]

I am reading that the definition of marriage is between a man and a woman and this is established by religion... well right there lies a problem. Yes there are a lot of rights provided by domestic partnerships and civil unions but not all of the same rights...

A marriage may also not be considered a right - insisting gay people are not losing any rights since marriage isn't a right- implying that it is what? A privilage - no matter what you call it, if one group has the access to the privilage/right and one group is called out and not allowed access ... you have discrimination.

Telling us to get over it - the people have spoken is still wrong. Yes we are run by majority votes, however taking away rights/privilages/changing a constitution to include this is discrimination just like it was at the beginning of the civil rights movement.

I'd be perfectly happy calling my relationship a civil union or domestic partnership if that's what the others have as well. Since there is a separation of state and religion - change all of these marriages into what they truly are - government signed legal documents i.e. civil unions / domestic partnerships. Everyone would have the same rights and the same name.

As for those who so callously must hold onto the word 'marriage' and it's religious conotations can then take your civil union legal document to your place of worship and claim to all your friends and family you are married.

[evan]

ok, thought experiment time:

suppose that the government had a legal distinction for "baptised person" didn't matter what religion, so long as they were some kind of baptised. That person then had certain rights and distinctions under the law that a non baptised person didn't have. Then someone unreligious came along, and said, i want those rights too! So the government said hmm.. i don't know. well ok, you can be known as a "select" person, which is by and large the same thing, different name. Then there was a big fight over unreligious people should have to go by a different name in the eyes of the law.

Here's my point. Isn't the problem with this that government got itself involved with some religious ceremony in the first place? Isn't that the dumb part?

And i'm sure people will insist that it is necessary for society to operate. okay fine. how about the government calls NO ONE married and considers everyone in a domestic partnershi, then leave it to the mormons, catholics, and first churchs of hippism to decide who they want to marry?

[Cupertino]

Well now, quite a handful of you bigoted Prop8 supporters are ignorant beyond belief, but then again bigotry and ignorance always went hand-in-hand, as history repeatedly shows again and again.

I hope you can take solace and celebrate in the next few years of having unjustly removed the right to marriage from fellow Californian residents, because anyone with even half a brain can see that time is not on your side. Those aged 18-24 voted overwhelmingly to defeat Prop 8, and those aged 24-early 30s voted significantly against Prop 8, regardless of ethnicity.

So by all means homophobes, put on your blindfolds and celebrate in denial of the inevitable while you can.

[joe martin]

"Religion is man made. Someone's religious beliefs should not rule out others rights. I agree we should target the churches for all their injustices. I think we need to attack them big time. They are the enemy and we should attack them non-violently, but in ways that will give them less power. Jesus has killed more people than he has saved." AR

IN RESPONSE: Your supppositions are ridiculous...typical of heathen mob mentality...You should understand Christianity before making any judgements...JESUS NEVER KILLED ANY ONE BUT HE WILL SEND YOU TO HELL FOR YOUR UNBELIEF AND UNREPENTANT HEART THAT HATES HIM.

[nick_r]

You know what would really help?

If every person who voted Yes on 8 -- or who has opposed gay rights in any other form -- could just come clean and admit that the reason they voted that way is that THEY'RE JUST NOT COMFORTABLE WITH GAY PEOPLE.

Because at the end of the day, THAT'S the reason. Not because of any "traditional marriage" nonsense. Not because gays "can't reproduce" (that argument is beyond ridiculous given that plenty of straight couples can't reproduce either and are still allowed to marry). Not because the Bible says so. All these supposed justifications are merely a crutch.

Please, just have the guts to admit that gay people make you uncomfortable. Because that's something that can be dealt with. That's something we can make progress on. Don't hide behind a make-believe wall.

[Randy]

So the protest is against the voters who said, 'yes'? The protest is against people who care about their families? The protest is against redistribution of wealth to advertising executives? I'm confused, maybe that's why this looks like emotionally underdeveloped people rolling on the ground and screaming, 'I do what I want, and you do what I want to'. This is about people who were born that way and never grew up.

[Adam Ingersoll]

I know many religious people (Black folks especially) who feel genuine compassion towards gay people. But they're deeply religious, they don't believe or don't understand the biological basis for homosexuality, they think it is a sin, they pray for the souls of gay people, they believe that God doesn't want them to encourage sin, they love their children and were swayed by the manipulative pro-8 ads, and so with a heavy heart and/or confused head, they voted yes.

I think these folks are horribly misguided, but I don't hate them. I hate those who voted Yes on 8 because they hate gay people. There might be some religious roots to their original hatred, but mostly they just hate people who are different. You know who you are. You are enjoying seeing gay people hurting and upset over this. By the way, I have never know anyone who hated gays who didn't also hate other groups and didn't on some level hate themselves. You might be the first, but I doubt it.

I remember when I had issues with gay people. (I was 12 years old....what is your excuse?) Then my mother started very painfully coming out of the closet. I'll spare you the details, but I bet you would no longer think of being gay as a choice or a sin if you had been through it. My mom ended up in a monogamous loving relationship with the same partner (who helped raise me) for the next 20 years. My mom passed away a year ago after a battle with cancer. She didn't have health insurance when she was first diagnosed because she wasn't covered on her partner's plan due to Illinois state law at the time. She would have been more likely to be able to get the treatment she needed earlier if laws and backward thinking like Prop 8 didn't exist.

I support those who have taken to the streets over this outrage.

[Truth]

I didn't realize lack of embracement of personal inclination could be considered a civil rights issue or let alone oppression. Discrimination is DISCRIMINATING against something outside of a persons will or control (race, ethnicity, gender). Not wanting imposition of personal choice to a society as a whole is called wisdom!

[Dave in Hollywood]

Oh please people. I'm a gay Mormon and the Mormon church deserves what it gets. It's all free speech, even if someone calls it a protest or hate or whatever.

A protest at the Mormon temple is completely appropriate because the Mormon Church via its members donated the majority of the money and time spent to pass Prop 8.

The Mormon church has won the battle but lost the war. Time and history will not be kind to the Mormons and I'm sure they are fine with that. Every action has its consequences. So let the consequences happen.

[Clark]

Thankfully, the world is better off with people like "Please no more gays!!!!" leading the literacy charge . Dude, even Obama is against Prop 8.

[Michael]

Ultimately, the problem is that what some people like to do in private has become equal to a race or ethnicity. Many, like those whose race or ethnicity has caused them to struggle in this country, don't appreciate that. Others have what they believe to be the word of God saying the unintended use of a man or woman is sin. God has not told them he changed his mind so they see same-sex couples a unrepentant sinners. Gays interpret that as hatred. ULTIMATELY, what we have here is what divorce court calls 'irreconcilable differences.' It may be time for red and blue to get a divorce.

[Ray]

Here's the real problem....everyone for prop 8 keeps saying, "I believe this" and "I believe that", when in reality it has no relevance! This is America...land of the free...and the only thing that matters is what individuals believe for themselves!!!

[Keith Bickford]

Dave, you're wrong. My partner and now husband (my marriage still appears to be valid. For the moment) DO NOT have all the benefits or responsibilities, let alone "and then some." And gee, if I didn't know better, you would be arguing in FAVOR of same sex marriage. If it's no big deal, why are you so angry about not giving us that RIGHT to be equal? Otherwise, it's just like telling a person of color that they should only go to their own neighborhoods, because it's just as good as yours.

Marriage, unlike what you seem to think, is purely a secular, civil institution. You are welcome to get married in a church, or not. And you're welcome to live in your marriage according to your religious beliefs, or not. But it is NOT a religious institution. Nor has it been what you seem to think it is until the last 100 or 200 years. Before that, a woman and his children were the property of a man, and marriages arranged by either the family (or the king, or the chief, or the landowner) were the rule of the day.

[Dennis]

The solution to this is easy. Stop having the government issue "marriage" licenses. Turn them into parnership contracts for everyone, including straight couples. "Marriages" will only be conducted in Churchs and if a some specific denomination wants to perform marriages on gay couples then they are more than welcome.

That way gay couples have their state and federal rights since you entered into a legally biding partnership contract and the marriage portion becomes a seperate ceremony that occurs in a church that has no federal or state rights attached.

[Weena Dalby]

Sandra Guzman, please do not speak for my religion. Not all religions say homosexuality is wrong. Buddhism promotes tolerance and peace towards others. Treat others like you you like to be treated, were you in their position. Hmmmm, I think the Christians have a similar proverb!

May karma bite back with the spite you spew out.

[Brian W.]

Whose is pushing whose beliefs on who here. I suspect this prop is at least partially a rebellion against our glbt driven state government. In San Diego, firefighters were forced to work on some gay pride day, against their will. There is a difference between protection of the minority and the minority influencing all of society.

It is such a surprise this happened in West Hollywood :)

[Anastacia]

As a Catholic, I find it funny that the people that often quote the Bible regarding this issue conveniently forget the existance of Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, Scientologists and Agnostics. Why should they have to follow the Bible if it is not in their religion? Hence the separation of church and state people!

Marriage is not "sacred" in civil law. Marriage is "sacred" in the bible.

Marriage is a religious institution, not one that belongs in civil law. Here's an idea:

Take off Marriage wording for ALL current civil "marriage" licenses. Keep Marriage in the churches.

That way straight, gay, black, white, legal, illegal has the right to have a legal and recognized union with the person or their choice.

[sunnysider]

Irishman: What's your real name? Hypocrite. And I wonder why people don't use their real name...maybe because many of the people - including several on this blog - who advocate "tolerance" and "say no to H8TE" are hating on people who have a different opinion or who are from a different background, or because they belong to a church or have religious beliefs and all of these things for some reason qualify them to now be persecuted. Wow, I thought no on prop 8'ers wanted progress. When the noonprop8 blog says things like "egg all the Yes on 8 houses tonight" etc. it would be a little scary to put yourself in that line of hate. Unfortunately there are crazy people out there who use illegal means to intimidate/persecute others - it's not safe.

[Emil Sarcasian]

Rush Limbaugh has 3 ex-wives.
John McCain divorced his first wife so he could marry his mistress.
Newt Gingrich has 2 ex-wives (and married his mistress to make wife# 3).
These individuals have been vocal in their support of this ban. Isn't hypocracy wonderful?

Lawsuits and marches will not solve anything. California gays need to organize some sort of boycott or strike.

[Dan]

Whatever you views on gay marriage, religion should not dictate civil law.
The Mormon Church was one of the biggest donors for Proposition 8.
Voters were misled and lied to. Nevertheless
69% of young voters opposed Proposition 8.
Justice delayed is not Justice denied.
Either the California Supreme Court does the right thing and throws out Proposition 8 as unconstitutional since it's not an amendment but a fundamental revision (by taking away a constitutional right) or the next generation, together with fair-minded older people will make sure that justice delayed is not
justice denied.

[Jake Hess]

Where does the argument, 'that people are hateful and judgmental ' merely on the basis that, their beliefs and morals will not allow them to except wrongful behavior? Why is it "hateful" to intellectually believe (what the Bible teaches.)

How is that perpetrating hate. I may add, as well, 'what action is being taken during the belief process, that points too a hateful action?

[xxxray]

To those who voted Yes on 8: May your gay children (current and future) forgive you for not allowing them to be equal in marrying the person they love as you have been able to do so. You are making your own children second class citizens. How stupid is that?

[Phillip]

I am responding to an earlier comment in CAPS:

2 - Do you really think that sitting outside of a Temple in protest is going to change the minds of those who believe that marraige being only between a man and a woman is an eternal (not just something we made up, absolute truth) principle?
FYI - THE NO ON PROP 8 PEOPLE ARE SIMPLY NOT SITTING OUTSIDE A TEMPLE TO PROTEST. THERE IS A PRESS CONFERENCE THAT IS PLANNED, WITH ALL MAJOR STATIONS COVERING, TO RAISE AWARENESS AS TO WHY IT WAS WRONG (BECAUSE IT TOOK A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT AWAY FROM ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT EVERYONE IN THE STATE HAS) TO PASS PROP 8 IN CA.

If you really want to change what the majority voted for, then start campaigning, in an organized and logical way like those for prop 8 did, for the reversal of the law. These protests just make you look silly.
AGAIN, THE USE OF THE TERM "PROTEST" IS USED LIGHTLY. THESE ARE EDUCATIONAL PRESS CONFERENCES TO GET SOCIETY TO REALIZE THAT A BASIC FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT WAS TAKEN AWAY FROM A GROUP OF PEOPLE.

[jake]

It is an absolute shame that we are unable to fully celebrate the victory and the significance of Barack Obama's win because of this Proposition that takes away the rights of another minority group. It is shocking to me that in this day and age and the fact that we have freedom of religion that this would be the result.

All of us, gay and staight, must fight because this is a basic civil right

[Bryan]

I didn't choose to be gay, but I choose to love and not be hateful toward those that don't understand what they are doing. I hope someday someone in your life changes your opinion before you damage your own personal relationships. WWJD? Jesus shows unconditional love. Try to remember that instead of the hate.

[Cal]

Gays really need to start protesting at straight weddings. Let them know just what it feels like to have people screaming at you because you want to be with the person you love.

[Holly]

"As a NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN- I can tell you that OUR culture has recognized "two-spirit" (aka gay) people since the dawn of time. Our culture has welcomed two-spirits in everyday life for CENTURIES.

So YES, gay marriage DID exist in this country at one time.

So YES MY CIVIL RIGHTS WERE TAKEN AWAY FROM ME, largely in part by a group of people MY people helped shelter when they escaped from the white man as slaves.

THANKS FOR THE PAYBACK! Oh wait, we're used to people taking everything we have and GIVING NOTHING IN RETURN.

As to the Mormons, don't they need to worry about the men having 4 or 5 wives in Colorado City, Arizona or Hilldale, Utah? Doesnt that invalidate the sacred bond of marriage?"

[CSant]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints did not donate one penny from it's own funds. That supposed $20 million came directly from it's members. If you have a problem, go protest in front of their homes, not at the temple. The last ad published by the "No on 8" campaign was rude, crass and a direct attack on a single faith. You want lies? Missionaries don't do anything that was portrayed in that clip. The opposition talked of tolerance, yet where was tolerance when it came to the beliefs of those in support of prop 8? Why didn't they single out other groups that were involved in the protect marriage coalition? Where was tolerance when a group of opponents started taking down my signs for yes on 8? Marriage = one man and one woman! Thats the way it was from the beginning, and thats the way it shall remain. Thank you California for standing tall even when that choice wasn't perceived to be "politically correct"

[Dirt Master]

Being gay is a deviant behavior which should not be tolerated. Sexual preference is a choice. If you chose to be a deviant immoral person then you should be shunned upon by society like pedophiles are.

[LeeAnn]

I'm sorry, but we can march and protest however and against whoever we damn well please! We were protested against, advertised against, and ultimately voted against! You have no right to complain about the way in which we go about attaining equality. The civil rights movement wasn't pretty either!

[MECR]

I find it very interesting. If Prop 8 had not passed, you would not have found those of us who supported it out in the streets acting uncivilized.

[Kram]

Here is the deal people.

Mormons, good Mormons who follow the example of Christ, do not hate anyone. What we are seeing here is religious freedom and a total lack of tolerance from the opposition......and they would make the same claim.

Mormons have the right to stand for what they believe in and voice those beliefs in this country. After all, a church that claims to have the whole truth would lose credibility if it did not stand up for this issue so good for them for taking a stand.

Protests are good! Gay people are good people as a group, we all know that. Some of the most compationate, nice and loving people on the planet. Those who oppose prop 8 that are nice, compationate and loving will show tolerance to the Christian Faith (Mormons!) and those who claim to have the entire truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ need to do the same. Tolerance is a two way street and I have yet to see the Yes on eighters display a lack of tolerance to the degree some of the No on eighters have most recently. As for the peaceful protests, keep it up and god bless America and the right to demonstrate.

[CCG1969]

I hate to bring this up, but up until about 10 years ago, gays (and yes this includes my friends who support this too) didn't care about marriage or the term marriage. They lived in bliss. What difference does it make? And they agree, they all live together and they call eachother their husband or wife, many people here do it too who are heterosexual and have been together for a long time. Marriage is a piece of paper that's it. You still have all the same legal rights as a husband or wife if you live with the person. Is the only reason for this piece of paper to prove a point? Heterosexuals don't use it to prove points? In fact most people are quite happy living together. My friends who are gay don't understand this at all because they are quite happy as they are and as I do, just believe it's a ploy to get more attention. Gays have the same rights as heterosexuals do in regards to civil rights. It has nothing to do with that piece of paper, lets get real folks.

[Bryan]

The more comments i read the more i realize prop 8 opponents just don't understand what marriage is. It is a commitment between man and woman and GOD. If you don't beleive that then you shouldn't get married, i don't care who you are. If you take any component out of the equation it doesn't equal marriage. Prop 8 has always been about maintaining it's definition. Realizing any new definition will be taught in schools has always been secondary, however a very important point.

[Tera]

I live in Texas and have followed Prop 8 for several months. I am disgusted that this passed. Marriage in the eyes of the church is suppose to be between a man and a women, this is true. However the rights that the gay community want have little to do with a church marriage. It is the legal right to make medical decisions, about collecting social security and pension programs. This simply is not possible with a domestic partnership or civil union. Plus this is a violation of separation of church and state. By a law being placed because the "christian bible" says marriage is between male and female that is dictating that we as Americans need to believe that. My best friend is gay and lives with her wife in LA and I support them in everyway I can and if a bunch of crack pot narrow minded people think they can stop them they are wrong. Give it a couple of years because if a group of people can get a prop on the ballot without legislation to ban gay marriage don't you think that the Gay community can do the same to overturn it.

[Cheryl]

Many of you keep saying that no rights have been lost and that civil unions provide equal rights. You are wrong and this is why.

TAXES. Step into my shoes when it is time to file my taxes. Single or Married? Crap. I have to check single. Is that equal? Ok, next. Enter your deduction for taxes paid on your home. Crap, only one of us can claim the house. Kids together? Screwed again. HEALTH INSURANCE. Contrary to your belief most employers in this country do not provide health insurance for unmarried couples and those who do make the employee pay major taxes on the health care because they are not married. My partner pays an extra $200 a month on top of the cost itself. Is that equal? DEATH. Sorry, you can not claim the body because you are not family. Sorry, you can not post the death notice because you are not married. Sorry, you can not inherit the house because you are not family. Sorry, you cannot collect social security or the pension because you are not married. Kids together? Sorry, you cannot raise them anymore. Walk a day in my shoes and then tell me what my life is like. Things may be better for a gay couple in California than in Missouri but they are NOT equal.