LAPD braces for Prop. 8 protest in West L.A., vows to be prepared*

More than 3,000 protesters marched near the landmark Los Angeles California Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Westwood today to protest the church's strong support for Proposition 8. Santa Monica Boulevard is closed and nearby traffic is gridlocked.

Opponents of Proposition 8, which outlawed gay marriage in California, were waving banners and chanting. A similar protests occurred on Wednesday night in Hollywood and West Hollywood.

Los Angeles Police Department officials say they won't be caught off-guard as they were last night, when they were required to call a tactical alert after a few members of the mostly peaceful crowd got out of hand. The protest is scheduled to begin at 2 p.m. off Santa Monica Boulevard.

In the wake of the passage of the state proposition banning gay marriage, Wednesday night saw thousands protest in West Hollywood and Hollywood, forcing police to shut down some streets and the LAPD to call a citywide tactical alert that required officers from one watch to stay on duty during the next watch.

At least seven people were arrested, four at the intersection of Hollywood and Highland, where one man jumped on top of a police car. Television cameras captured one protester struggling with officers and being struck on the legs by batons.

The Mormon temple is apparently being targeted because of church members' funding and support of the proposition.

* Update: Another protest is planned for later this afternoon in West Hollywood near the Pacific Design Center. The MTA says streets will be closed and buses rerouted. Details from the MTA statement:

Metro has received word that there will be additional Prop. 8 demonstrations this afternoon and evening and [L.A. County Sheriff's Department]  will be closing San Vicente from Melrose to Santa Monica Boulevard starting at 4 p.m. until the streets are cleared, which could go into the late evening. There will be no traffic including buses allowed to go north on San Vicente.  During this time, Metro will need to reroute buses to Robertson to go north and then east on Santa Monica Blvd.

**Update 2: Metro corrected their earlier statement, saying the Sheriff's Department currently has "no formal plan to close San Vicente Boulevard between Santa Monica Boulevard and Melrose Avenue this evening."

-- Richard Winton and Rong-Gong Lin II

Photo credit: Barbara Davidson / Los Angeles Times

Comments

[james]

See Mormons? See! This is what happens when you push your wacky beliefs into everyone's private lives!

[Blue]

That sure makes sense -- blame those wacky Mormons. I get it, they are an easy target -- and their temple is in an affluent part of town. I dare these guys to do their protest at the First A.M.E. Church. African-Americans voted by a 40 point margin (70% to 30%) in favor of Prop. 8. It was their support that put this over the top.

[Blue]

By the way, it's the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints. Not Church of the Latter-day Saints. The difference matters to Mormons.

[Todd Clem]

An oppressed group need look to other oppressed groups to see how they managed protests and organized civil disobedience. Coordinated protests that can draw media attention and be effective without violence or idiots running off on there own would provide a clear message without having the majority of people who voted against them nodding there head at the tv showing idiots running off on there own proving there point. Organization is required, I would love to see the churches catholic, Mormon, etc. completely surrounded on a Sunday preventing services take the fight to those that fought you ruining someones drive home who voted with you can quickly backfire.

[Dave]

I am still waiting for someone to show me one right the gays lost because they can't marry. Marriage itself is NOT a right. Gays still have ALL the legal benefits and then some. The only thing they can't do is use the term marriage when they form relationships together. They can't refer to the relationship as a marriage. Big deal. They have EVERYTHING else. Why do they insist on ruining what thousands of years of traditional marriage means (for everyone else) just so they can be called "married".
The ONLY reason for such a desire (to be called "married") is to be accepted by the non-gay community. Except for the name, Domestic Partnerships give gays the same rights as anyone else. That's why GAYS DON'T NEED TO BE MARRIED. It's just not necessary.
The people decided. Having a rally is fine, but don't get violent and don't vandalize property. The sore losers that are going after the LDS church for this loss are miss directed and are hurting their cause in the long run. I have respect for gays, but I won't have respect for anyone who resorts to violence just because they don't like the outcome of the election.

[busytimmy]

Hey Blue, we will confront this bigoted and discriminatory amendment wherever necessary. Prop 8 has stained our constitution and jeopardized equal protection for all of California's citizens. May the wisdom of our supreme court prevail and may freedom for all again reign in our great state. Stay cool protesters!! The police are not our enemy!

[BroadCoalition]

I wonder if the protests will target any other groups who contributed to Prop 8. Catholic churches, Evangelical churches, Jewish groups, African American neighborhoods... Probably not.

[BroadCoalition]

Wacky beliefs? I guess most Americans, a majority of the New York Supreme Court, almost half of the California Supreme Court, and most countries in Europe and the world hold the same wacky beliefs.

[kylewestla45]

It makes perfect sense to target the mormons. Youre obviously misinformed. A majority of the YES on 8 campaign was directly funded the the church. The campaign spewed lies and misinformation directed at minority communities in order to gain support for the proposition.

I thought lying was a sin? The mormon LIED and broke one of their own commandments. SHAME on you.

[JM]

Wow, this sort of protest seems to make the points of the Yes on Prop 8 crowd. No wonder religious people feared that gay marriage would threaten their rights. Seem like the wrong tactic. But shoot yourself in the foot if you wish.

[Tim]

The supporters of Prop. 8 successfully convinced voters that children would be affected by same-sex marriage. Unfortunately, more children will be affected now that this discrimatory initiative has passed. Even if legal challenges succeed, the implication that a majority of people do not support gay rights will have a profound impact on children, likely making matters worse for children who are gay, transgendered, or questioning their sexuality. According to a U.S. government study, youth who fit this category are two to three times more likely to commit suicide than other young people (Report of the Secretary's Task Force on Youth Suicide). Those are the facts. Passing this initiative has affected a lot more young people than defeating it would have.

This election was more than just marriage, as the Yes On 8 campaign liked to tout. Indeed, this was about equality. And moreover, it was about teaching young people tolerance. And California, you failed.

It's a sad day and age when Canada is more progressive than California.

[Ken P.]

Unfortunately, this type of protest only reinforces the opposition to gay marriage. But Obama and the black community owe gays on this issue. Otherwise, why should gays support the Democratic party?

[FightOn]

Let the taxing of all churches begin; the lines have been drawn between reality and fanatsy. Reality; gay EQUAL RIGHTS have been taken away; FANTASY pray to your god; that he comes and rescuse you from you very own stupidity.

[L.A. Times Copy Desk]

Many thanks to reader Blue for catching the error. We've updated the post with the correct name of the church.

[jake]

I fell in love with a brazilian girl, and we're getting a k1 visa to get her into the country for the purpose of marriage, then green card and eventually dual citizenship, show me one gay person who can do that
plus haven't we learned yet that separate is inherently unequal? are we really doing this all over again?

[Valentina]

Hey Blue,

The Mormons were the major funders of the pro-8 initiative ($20Million last I heard) --it wasn't a random choice to protest at their temple.

And there should be protests at Knights of Columbus halls, too, since they also gave big money.

[Lola C]

I think that it is terribly sad that this passed. No matter what anyone says the bases of this all is that it is two human beings wanting to be "Married", to make a vow to one another, to live their lives as a couple in lawful union no matter their Gender. Someone made comment there is no need for gays to be married, but them why is there need for non gays to be married then? After a certain amount of years it would be common law right? It is about the principal. We want to marry the ones we love. I married my husband because I truly love him and want to spend the rest of my life with him. I want a ceremony for friends and family to cry at, laugh at, be a part of. I wanted to take his name and be his lawful wife. Why cant two human being of the same sex experience this too? In this dictionary the word love doesnt say..oh yeh, but all this can only be between a man & woman. All those against gay marriage, how does this affect you? What do you care? You dont know the couples, you arent in their homes, in their lives, sharing anything with them. Most likely you will never cross their path. Would you ever want a ban put on what you could or could not do? What if a proposition was brought up that you cannot marry past 30 or 25, too bad. Or what if you could not have kids or have pets or live with a person or anything. You would never want your rights as a human being taken away. Why are we doing this to them? Do you feel better knowing you hurt people, you shattered their dream, you took something away? I am disgusted to think that there are those out there that infringe their own beliefs on someone else and damage in the meanwhile, selfishly thinking nothing of it.

[chapulin]

Why isn't anyone protesting in front of an African American church? 75% of African Americans voted YES on Prop. 8 and supposedly for RELIGIOUS reasons. Talk about hypocrisy. They vote for Obama, a pro-choice liberal (that means he's in favor of abortion, which last I checked was frown upon by organized religion) but deny gays the opportunity to marry based on religious beliefs. Anyone who says that African Americans didn't vote for Obama simply because of his ethnicity is flat-out lying. The African American community wasn't concerned with anybody else's rights or with any issues. By the way, where has the story on this matter that appeared on the L.A. Times website yesterday gone? Can't find it anywhere.

[Lola C]

I think that it is terribly sad that this passed. No matter what anyone says the bases of this all is that it is two human beings wanting to be "Married", to make a vow to one another, to live their lives as a couple in lawful union no matter their Gender. Someone made comment there is no need for gays to be married, but them why is there need for non gays to be married then? After a certain amount of years it would be common law right? It is about the principal. We want to marry the ones we love. I married my husband because I truly love him and want to spend the rest of my life with him. I want a ceremony for friends and family to cry at, laugh at, be a part of. I wanted to take his name and be his lawful wife. Why cant two human being of the same sex experience this too? In this dictionary the word love doesnt say..oh yeh, but all this can only be between a man & woman. All those against gay marriage, how does this affect you? What do you care? You dont know the couples, you arent in their homes, in their lives, sharing anything with them. Most likely you will never cross their path. Would you ever want a ban put on what you could or could not do? What if a proposition was brought up that you cannot marry past 30 or 25, too bad. Or what if you could not have kids or have pets or live with a person or anything. You would never want your rights as a human being taken away. Why are we doing this to them? Do you feel better knowing you hurt people, you shattered their dream, you took something away? I am disgusted to think that there are those out there that infringe their own beliefs on someone else and damage in the meanwhile, selfishly thinking nothing of it.

[Danny Boyo]

Has no one taken the Gay Mormons feelings into account?

[Eric]

Separation of Church and State. They have should have the right to call their relationships of love a marriage as well. This is ridiculous it's just a term, why should the Government block a "term" from people?

I think it's our duty as citizens to protect the first amendment. This country was built on religious freedom.

People have vandalized property for even dumber reasons than this.

[Bert Green]

The Mormons are a legitimate target of this protest. But it does not stop there, in downtown LA there is a boycott coming of businesses that supported Yes on 8.

[Robert Kalonian]

Tuesday was a dark day in California's history. Voters elected the first black President with one vote while taking away the fundamental rights of Gay & Lesbian Californians with another. In the same election, voters gave chickens and pregnant pigs more rights and protections under state law. These are dangerous times with dangerous consequences. A simple majority (and a group of tax-exempt churches) should never be able to revise the Constitution to take away fundamental rights from a group of Americans. Perhaps we should start mandating history lessons for voters!

[Brenda]

Actually, Dave, marriage is a LEGAL contract that's governed by the states. If it was just a religious bond, then people wouldn't need to get a marriage license in order to be legally married. For example, a heterosexual atheist couple can get married without a church member even being involved in the process. It's got nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with legal rights. Civil marriage is a very different thing from a religious marriage.

And that's what a lot of people against gay marriage aren't getting. No one's forcing anyone to go beyond their accepted religious beliefs, or to be a part of something that also goes against their religious beliefs. All gay couples want is the legal protection that the marriage license provides.

Besides, as a friend of mine put it, Catholics aren't running around trying to get California to amend the state constitution to ban divorce, even though it's against their religious creed, so why is marriage between people of the same sex treated so differently.

[CG]

Dear Dave -- you were almost correct. Civil unions are governed and recognized by some individual states. But, unlike you straight, married folks, gay participants in civil unions do not receive any federal benefits. No right to social security. No right to a federal pr military pension. And so on....it's not the same as marriage -- not under the federal law. And that is worth fighting for!

[joe martin]

See Homosexuals! see this is what happens when You can't accept the that the people have voted and now this is the LAW...but You can't accept this can You? You are just a bunch of winers and cry babies! Go buy yourselves a Island and You can do what You please like live in debauchery and filth and have your own immoral anthropocentric laws.

[Steve]

African Americans were once told that they had to drink from separate water fountains. Was that fair? Was that just? "It's all the same water". Of course it was not fair, nor was it just. SEPARATE IS NOT EQUAL.

[Tony]

Prop 8 looks familar with those anti-interracial marriage, even now, 50% divorced in same race marriage, 80% in inter-racial marriage, 90% in inter-racial with black. But now, we elected an inter-racial president, so equal right for all.

[Sandra Guzman]

All religions believe that homosexuality is WRONG not just the Mormons - you need to protest at every church in the State -To you people who demand, stamp your feet and wave your fists cause you can't have your way - THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN! THE MAJORITY HAS SPOKEN! Get over it. You homosexuals already have equality - you can form civil unions which give you the same exact rights as married people get. You just want to 'NORMALIZE' homosexuality and it's not going to happen. Religious people will never, ever go your way - The Holy Bible as well as all religons' books say it is wrong and goes against God's plan.

[Grubal Muruch]

I saw this guy in the video, carrying a sign that read, 'God made me gay.' Well the same sign could be used, by adding your 'particular choice of inappropriate and antisocial (and I might add sinful) behavior.

Examples; 'God made me a thief' or 'God made me an adulterer', or even'God made me an alcoholic'. Choose your own moniker. Whatever your weakness (sin) is.

Trying to blame the Deity is another way of not taking responsibility for our choices and behavior !

[Shannon]

Dave -

Would you feel that way if you were gay? Because it could have just as easily been you who turned out to be gay and not me. It's the luck of the draw, my friend.

My marrying another woman one day will affirm the institution of marriage and its importance, not ruin it. It's an institution built on love. I have loved someone who happens to be of the same gender as myself with all my heart, and someday I will marry someone of the same gender. And I would like it to be called a marriage so that our children will know that their parents' relationship is just as recognizable and respectable as any other.

The passage of Proposition 8 sends the message that my relationship is not as good as yours. How would you feel?

[rabmal sadat]

THE PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA HAVE SPOKEN .. WE DO NOT WANT YOUR SAN FRANSISCO VALUES ... SO DO WHATS RIGHT AND MOVE ON BECAUSE THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN

[Dave]

Just to clarify... Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints donated to protectmarriage.com, but the church itself didn't donate anything. No church funds were used to promote prop 8.

[smo]

Dave,

Marriage is a right you have and gays do not. Have you heard of the separation between church and state? In the USA, we have freedom from religion. If marriage is a civil institution, it must not discriminate. Gays are not ruining anything. Your marriage will be perfect fine and protected under whatever faith you believe in. Heres a quote from an editorial," Any amendment banning same-sex marriage is unconstitutional; not because it injects the Constitution with discrimination, but because it injects it with religion in the form of sanctity"

[EJ]

The California voters spoke in 2000 (61% in favor of Prop 22), and again this week (52% in favor of Prop 8). Protest all you want, it won't change anything.

You are wasting your time protesting in front of the Temple...why not spend your time doing something useful?

[David]

to BLUE it doesnt really matter what the church is called and saying "The difference matters to Mormons" does not really matter to theose protesting. Mormons should just ride their bikes back to UTAH ,instill their beliefs into those who 'choose' to believe their crap.

No one has the right to say what makes you happy is wrong you are not living their life so it should not matter to you unless it affects you or somone directly.

[Robert]

Tax the churches! Tax the churches! Tax the churches!

[Americanadian]

Stop spinning your wheels by protesting in front of the LDS temple or a Knights of Columbus. Those groups will never accept gay marriage. Done. The people you should be focusing on are the Democrats and Obama supporters who voted Yes. Do you honestly think that every Obama supporter voted No? If so, you are dumber than you look. LA County voted overwhelmingly for Obama yet Prop 8 passed. Do the math, people and start realizing that the party that professed hope and change failed you.

[Gah]

Idiots. Why don't they head down to South Central and protest against black people? And all the latinos? I mean, they voted 70% to pass 8.

Gay people already have the right to marry....people of the opposite sex!

[Ryan]

The LDS Church did not directly fund the campaign for proposition 8. Members of the Church voluntarily donated their time and money to the support of this initiative.

[Ann]

I'm a straight woman, but I support these protests as long as they don't get violent.

I'm not sure what the Prop 8 supporters mean by saving marriage. Gay couples have been getting married in CA for months now; has the sky fallen? What am I to fear? My relationship with my husband is the same as before.

This proposition is one of the many reasons why I don't take my 9-year-old to church. And by the way, she thinks it's a free country and that gays should be allowed to marry.

[Please no more gays!!!!]

Gays have to accept the idea that traditional marriage is for traditional "people" and you don't need to get married to show love to the person you Love!!! But when comes to raise kids...it s a diffrent story because kids don't want to see Mama wearing daddy's pants and daddy with moma's lip stick on it !!!! Crazy world !!!

[Jillian]

This issue isn't about homosexuality it's about DISCRIMINATION!!!

It is as abhorrent to accept discrimination based on sexual orientation as it was to deny women the vote last century or to discriminate based on age, race, or the particular substances people choose to put into their bodies.

It is simply unacceptable to have laws created that are based on certain ideals or moral standards when the outcome of those laws is to cause misery and loss of opportunity to people who've harmed no one and who live productive lives respecting the rights of others.

Get your minds off what they do in bed (it's none of your business) and fight to eliminate discrimination!! While you’re at it ask your legislators why we don’t control marijuana with the *same laws* we use for alcohol!

[JULIA]

When an effigy of Sarah Palin hanging by a noose was hung from a house as "Halloween Art" widely publicized by a gay couple, and refused to take it down after protest, I gleefully voted yes on 8.

[JTS]

Joe Martin, you basically summed up pretty well what the Yes on 8 crowd feels but doesn't say. In the end, same sex couples will be awarded the right. The Proposition is unconstitutional just like the one that was struck down in 2000. It's not a matter of IF they will have equal rights, but WHEN?
History will judge those who supported this proposition harshly. I guarantee it.

[BudSD]

We're trying to organize some of these protests in San Diego County, too. Gay men and women will not tolerate discrimination! Good luck up there, today.

[JOE]

All those, whether Homosexual or heterosxual, who are crying and whining out there need to be good citizens and respect the LAW...the people have spoken again and again...this mob mentality only demonstrates how you wish push your sexual orientation on others...You are no different than Evangelicals who prostelytize when they have been told " no thanks " to their religious views.

[Christian Voice]

Using your freedom of speech to voice your opinion is your right. Forcing the rest of society to recognize and legitimize your alternative lifestyle through marriage, which is not a right, is just plain WRONG. It is time to accept that your lifestyle does not reflect the moral and ethical standards of american society. You are free to pursue your lives elsewhere, try Iran.

[John Q Public]

Marriage is between a man and a woman. If you want to call it a "garriage" or a homosexual union, go ahead. It's a free country. But don't call a dog a pig. A marriage is a marriage. Make up your own name for a union between the same sex....grow up people! You can't have everything. It's just like that commercial "I want it toasted AND untoasted..." It's ridiculous...

[srla]

Yes, the vast majority of Americans consider the core Mormon beliefs to be wacky. And odds are, if they knew more about those beliefs, they would find them even more odd (polytheism, the ability of men to become Gods, etc). Obviously Mormons are sensitive to this as they hardly publicize those beliefs and attempt to (somewhat disingenuously) characterize themselves as mainstream Christians.

The point is that a group so far from the mainstream is unwise to try and impose their beliefs on any minority group. It doesn't take a genius to realize that if religious beliefs are allowed to influence law and limit constitutional rights, then Mormons themselves have one of the biggest targets on their backs down the line, precisely because their own beliefs are so far from the mainstream. This is why our founding fathers embedded core rights into state and Federal constitutions - so that the whim s of the majority at any time in history would not be allowed to limit the rights of a minority.

And while it is hugely disappointing and ironic that such a high percentage of African Americans voted for Prop 8, it is the Mormons that contributed over 75% of the funding of Prop 8, much of that money from out of state. It is only right that a light now be cast on them and their true beliefs. They should not be allowed to manipulate from the shadows and, as a group, deserve any negative publicity they now receive.

Of course, a percentage of LDS members spoke out against their church's support of this measure, and I very much appreciate their courage to stand up against bigotry.

[Dave]

When referring to california, my understanding is that a domestic partnership gives all the same rights as anyone that is married. Sure, it's going to be different today when you leave the state so why not make a domestic partnership law that is the same for all the states (and gives all the legal rights) without using the term marriage at all? Why ruin marriage for everyone else?

[julie]

Your beloved Obama defines marriage as "between a man and a woman." Oh yes he did. Biden defined it the same way.... Perhaps if gays stop hating women and hanging effigies of Sarah Palin from a noose in West Hollywood calling it halloween art, you could have gained some "respect." I'm a liberal Democrat and was turned off by the effigy in West Hollywood and took it as an attack on married women and mothers and women running for office. I'm not a Mormon, I don't go to church, I voted YES on 8. Blame your in-your-face mayor trying to shove it down our throats and go around the people.

[Brent]

Not sure if any of you have heard of this guy. He played a pretty importmant part of American history. Here are just a few things he said while he was alive. George Washington:" It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible" "It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors."

God loves all and God created marriage. You be the one that tells Him He didn't know what He was doing! As for me and my house, we will bet everything on Him!

[jamal]

Blacks voted 7 out of 10 for yes on 8. I am proud of that. I guess you will protest at us next. Then the pope will be next. Give it up.

[Fred Behrmann]

I'm willing to bet that there would be alot of Mormons willing to handle security at the Temple. Can't think of anything funner than waitng for a bunch of militant, deviant, perverted people, angry that their disgusting perverted lifestyle has been rejected by the majority, to come looking for a fight.

[FredW]

It was correct to enact Prop 8. Anything different would jeopardize our freedom of religion.

Inter-racial marriage affirms marriage.

Amendments for traditional marriage are passing all over the country. The GLBT community needs to do some real soul searching to figure out why this is. Perhaps it's their intolerance for any opposing views that is creating this backlash.

[Suzi]

Some of the comments I'm reading are inane. Yes, 74% of African-American women in California voted for Proposition 8, however, African-Americans in total make up about 6.5% of the state's population. That didn't tip the vote. What tipped the vote was an advertising onslaught fueled by financial contributions made by Mormons at the request of their church (estimates upward of $15 million). The advertising was intentionally erroneous and fear-inducing, and lied without remorse. In the past month, we have heard civic and educational leaders intentionally misquoted, or quoted out of context, we've had electronic attacks on the No On 8 website, we've seen children's images used in misleading advertising without their parents' permission... the list goes on and on. Is it any wonder gays and lesbians are mad? We've been cheated AND demeaned. Separate and similar is NOT equal.

[bill]

they protests will only increase the firm resolve on the yes on 8 ground-look at illegal immigration protests-they backfired

[Christian Voice]

Using your freedom of speech to voice your opinion is your right. Forcing the rest of society to recognize and legitimize your alternative lifestyle through marriage, which is not a right, is just plain WRONG. It is time to accept that your lifestyle does not reflect the moral and ethical standards of american society. You are free to pursue your lives elsewhere, try Iran.

[Nadine Perry]

These riots show that we're here and we're still queer and no proposition is going to change the way we see ourselves or the way God sees us regardless of what those close minded Mormons think.

The reason why they are protesting Mormons the most is because Prop 8 passed with $20 million of Mormon money. Thats why. They were behind the lies and decit. This is especially disgraceful coming from a religious minority who has been persecuted by the majority. They're hypocrites and should be ashamed of themselves.

Gays will always and forever be equal. In the end after you weather the storm, equality and justice always win.

Trust me, I know. I am a gay black female and I know what Im talking about.

[Doug O]

I am a Mormon. I believe in marriage as it should be, between a man and a woman. There is no physical way for the gay community to reproduce and create family bloodlines. That is not hate, that is nature. I don't care if you believe in God or not, you cannot ignore this fact of nature. The strength of society rests on its most fundamental organization: the family, and the perpetuation of families to strengthen the human family bond. Children have every right to be raised in a family with their biological father and mother. Society has corrupted the family institution with all sorts of wrongs; infidelity, abuse, selfishness, and neglect, and even more heinous crimes in some cases. The family does not need to be further degraded through the redefinition of marriage. It is not a step forward, it is a step backward! Instead of all of this focus on gay marriage we should be focusing on building up the family and supporting fathers and mothers in becoming the best fathers and mothers they can be for their children so that the cycle of healing can grow and continue within the natural bloodline of the family. Imagine a world in which this was the overwhelming focus! Instead we fight over redefining marriage, and abusing our spouses and children. The Mormon Church supports the building up of better fathers, mothers, and children. How can you criticize that?! How can you call that bigotry? Gays have rights, but marriage is not a right that can be given by anyone but nature for the purpose of building the human family and perpetuating bloodlines. Sorry, but this is nature, not hate. If you want to fight this order it will come back to hurt society at large. When in the earth's history has the gay lifestyle ever been allowed to flourish without the eventual decimation of that society? Empires and kingdoms, cities and nations have fallen that have embraced this. How many times will we have to go through this cycle. When the family is not respected, the society suffers. Don't mess with nature, because nature has a way of getting you back. Again, that is not hate, or discrimination, it's nature.

[Nick D.]

The bottom line is that we will not be treated as second class citizens. The equal rights amendment in our constitution was put there to protect minority groups from the tyranny of the majority. THAT is why we will be protesting as often as possible from here on in, so that the world can see that we will not be silenced by a majority vote. America might still be segregated if left simply to the majority vote. Women in America might not yet be allowed to vote if it was left simply to the majority vote. Interracial couples might still be fighting this VERY SAME FIGHT if it was left simply to the majority vote. Hate and prejudice, whether from a majority or a minority, will not be tolerated in America or in California thanks to our constitution. THAT is why we have the equal rights amendment and THAT is why we will fight this in the courts till we are finally treated as EQUALS.

SEPARATE BUT EQUAL IS INHERENTLY UNEQUAL! ITS TIME TO LEARN FROM HISTORY AND MOVE THIS COUNTRY FORWARD!

[Steven Ru]

Prop 8 means that California follows Mississippi. Sweet! Seriously, now that we have been shown the way, and that it is legal, people should look more to whom else we can take things away from. Perhaps we should go back to the old days and not let those Japs marry the whities. God, look what happened when Spaniards married Native Americans. We got Mexicans.

[Matt]

I just want to point out two things to those protestors:

1 - The majority who voted in California for this proposition voted for Proposition 8. That means that the majority believe marraige to be between a man and women. That is how our nation works, by the majority.

2 - Do you really think that sitting outside of a Temple in protest is going to change the minds of those who believe that marraige being only between a man and a woman is an eternal (not just something we made up, absolute truth) principle?

If you really want to change what the majority voted for, then start campaigning, in an organized and logical way like those for prop 8 did, for the reversal of the law. These protests just make you look silly.

[Larry]

The hateful, misinformed lie-mongers failed to ask one simple question before going on their attack: What would Jesus do? I'm no biblical scholar (I don't believe in ANY fairy tales), but the answer is clear to anyone with an open mind. If the "Big J" were around today, he'd probably be *leading* a protest. Those of you taking to the streets: Right on! Just keep it non-violent.

[Raul]

I think only a man and a woman should have the right to marry. I am atheist, but I just believe this. The purpose of marriage is to have a family and offspring. Call it whatever else, but not marriage.

[Youngster]

What happened to the famed American Democracy? The people have spoken, accept it. I don't like the fact that Obama is the President, but the people want him, so they will get him.

If you want Government by mob rule, move to Africa.

[julieb]

Jeff at 1:10 pm. that was brilliant. you are funny too. These people don't realize that Obama himself said marriage should be between a man and a woman. Biden too! Jeez they already get all the rights of marriage through domestic partnership laws already on the books. I'm liberal. I voted yes on 8. I live in W. Hollywood. bwaaaaa

[Bill]

Groups such as the LDS should clean their own homes before they go imposing their adopted norms on others. Polygamy as practiced by some of the more extreme members of this religion is much more harmful to society than gay marriage could ever be. Besides the effect on the children, everyone fails to mention that the only way many of these men can afford multiple wives and a large brood of offspring is by letting us, the taxpayers, pay for them through welfare, food stamps etc. Although the "mainstream" Mormons may not practice polygamy, I have never heard a prominent figure from among them, such as Mitt Romney come out and openly and forcefully condemn their brethren for practicing it. At most we get silence on the subject. This is hypocrisy at it's best. This church has an agenda and I'm not quite sure what it is....

[Valentina]

Anyone who thinks it is only Gays who are protesting the passage of this UNAMERICAN law is crazy. I'm a heterosexual woman who is absolutely disgusted by this, and many of the families in my neighborhood were also very much against this law.

[Action Jackson]

Either the idea ofTraditional Marriage was going to be forced on one group of people or the idea of same-sex marriage was going to be pushed on the other group of people. Either way in and election there are going to be winners and losers. That is the democratic process. You can't say that Prop 8 passing is uncostituional because now it is a part of the constitution. "We the People" spoke and "We the People" decided on how the constitution should be written. This is the way it should have been done and this is the way it was done. I was more than willing to accept the outcome either way.

The majority of people have spoken about how they wish to have the issue of marriage defined. Can we please move on from this.

[Lewis]

It's time to FIGHT!!!
We will get nothing by asking.
Throw a wrench into their lives, just as they have done to ours.
I AM NOT a 2nd class citizen.
I DARE any religious whack job to tell me different to my face.

WE MUST FIGHT!!!!!

[Irishman]

It was with great sadness that I read that Prop. 8 was passed yesterday. I was reading the LA times website for months for updates and just hoped that it would be defeated. To be honest, you needn't worry that much as it looks like support for gay marriage is greatly increasing. After all, it was only won by a very slight margin. What about those votes that are sent in the post and haven't been counted? Don't they count? Also, demonstrations are great but just don't get violent, that will only serve to worsen your overall standing. Good luck though!

[Robert Kalonian]

I find it laughable that all the bigots on these blogs conveniently leave out their real names. What's wrong? Are you afraid of being cast a bigot or too narrow-minded to accept that there are people in this world who do not share your views and beliefs? Did you ever take the time to read what your fellow bigots said when other minorities were fighting for equal rights under the law? Let me tell you, you sound a lot of like. Try listening in history class next time!

[anon]

I voted yes on prop 8 because I believe that marriage is only between a man and a woman. If gays and lesbians want to legally be locked into a marriage-type legal relationship, then let it be called domestic partnership or something. And have the Calif legislature write such a law.

The only reason why gays and lesbians are pushing for "marriage" is because they want to legitimize their life style and legally push their beliefs on to people who are not of their life style. People's life style are not my business and I don't want to intrude on theirs, but don't push their beliefs on to me.

[Brad O.]

I find it hillarious how many are blaming the LDS Church when only 2% of the voters in California are LDS. After you hypocrites are finished practicing bigotry against the LDS Church, you can focus on the other 50% of the voters that believe that marriage should be defined as between a man and a woman. I voted Yes on 8 and I support gay rights.

On a second note, I can see that the L.A. Times is being as slanted as ever even after Proposition 8 has passed with a 4% lead. To L.A. Times staff: I will never subscribe until you start reporting both sides of the story rather than trying to sway voters.

Brad O.

[Chris]

You are not born gay, it is a choice. There is not one piece of scientific data to support the "born gay" claim. The people once again have spoken. I say if any judge overturns this he/she should be hung from the nearest tree.

[Carl Watkins]

It amazes me that homosexuality hasn't been found a public health menace by the California Health Department. They are huge advocates of not smoking! But homosexuality is a lifestyle far more lethal than even cancer! The average homosexual male dies at the age of 42; homosexual female, 44. This is due to the acquired diseases from the activities promoted by this lifestyle. Why is the Health Department so silent over this? And why should the California constitution (public policy) ever be made to encourage such a dangerous and lethal lifestyle? It's not in the best interest of the public. There is no good reason, other than to appease the interests of a powerful lobby!

[Brian S]

For anyone who does not understand why the Mormon's are being targeted...It is because Mormons were, by far, the biggest funding source for the Yes on 8 proposition. Not First AME church, or any other organization.

[Nate C]

Get it out. Lash and gnash and do whatever else (within the bounds of the law) you need to.

Then let's all take a deep breath and start trying to heal some of these wounds.

Please.

[me]

It's not a right, get over it. You lost. The people have spoken (oh wait, that only works when it's in your favor, like judges, right?)

[Amy]

There were mormons who gave to both causes... their religion believes in Freedom of Choice at the VOTERS booth. Barbara Young was in the news up in Sacramento (She is NFL Steve Young's wife and she gave to the No on eight campaign. $50,000. She goes to those Mormon churches the No on 8 are protesting at.)
So to blame a church because its members gave to one cause or another is rediculous. Someone said the LDS CHURCH gave money. They don't do that. They never have. The Mormon PEOPLE who gave... were just Americans involved in a political process. A lot of Catholics gave too, and nobody is screaming at the Pope or the Catholic church. This is like the THIRD vote on this issue in the state in the last few years...and EVERY time the Majority of California's voters have been against gay marriage. There aren't that many Mormons in that state to sway that vote.
PEOPLE voted YES on Eight.
If people keep protesting at the LDS churches property there is going to be law suits. IN fact the NO on 8 people should be in trouble for that horrible commercial they made of young 19 year old missionaries breaking and vandalising in a gay couples home. That is the biggest LIE I have ever seen this campaign.

PS the wacky beliefs of marriage btw a man and a woman are pretty much the norm for the whole world for milliniums of time...and aren't a MORMON concept.

[NotBlue]

Some argue that gays do not lost any rights if not allowed to marry. The simple fact is that if one group is allowed, but another is not, that is plain and simple discrimination. And to those that think "civil-unions" are just as good, let's all think back and remember...hmmm...separate is NOT equal. Duh????

[Friend]

Have we really lost the ability to know right from wrong, or have we lost the ability to care what is right or wrong? Morality is now a dirty word. If it were not for religious freedom, and the desire to live our religion (which to me means love and tolerance for the sinner, but not for the sin), this country would not harbor such ability for those with alternative lifestyles to voice their views. However, the people have spoken and our voice has spoken once more to protect the sanctity of marriage. Let no self-righteous judges presume to take away the people's voice.

[Robert]

Kudos to LAPD and LASD for their handling of last night's protests! I was in the crowd for several hours as we marched from West Hollywood to Beverly Hills to Hollywood to Fairfax, and the officers and deputies couldn't have been more professional. Thank you, Sheriff Lee Baca, Captain Buddy Goldman and Chief Bill Bratton!

[Rebecca]

The Mormon Church as a whole didnt donate any money to Yes on 8. all the donations came from individuals that happened to be mormon. and those individuals only raised 1/4 of the money. what about evangelical churches, jewish churches, and internet donations that raised the other 3/4ths? these people are only targeting the mormons because they are least liked out of all the goups. it would be funny if people showed up to surround the LA Temple on sunday. because no one would be there. duh. church services arent held in the temple on sunday.

[Bing Do]

I don't understand how anyone intelligent can actively participate in religion. Sorry, but I am not from the US. You know, in some parts of the world, they believe in witch doctors. Many religious Americans would find that laughable, yet they cannot see the absurdity of their own religions.

Outside of that, I think denying rights to same-sex couples is pure bigotry. Sure, the 'popular vote was cast, but I'm sure the popular vote in 1840 would have been 'for' chaining up black people.

[joe the plummer]

I voted yes not because I am against gay marriage (I could really give a hoot). I voted yes because the way that sleaze Gavin Newsom reacted when the CA supreme court ignored the CA voters and allowed gay marriage. "Whether you like it or not" was a great line to inspire many to vote down this issue. Its not the job of elected officials to rub issues that the majority disagree with in their faces. There is a right and a wrong way to go about things when your a public figure, and acting like a 3rd grader on a play ground sticking your tongue out and screaming "neener neener neener" is not professional. That guy is such an idiot. Since the voters in SF care little about this guys values (slept w/ his campaign manager's wife and still kept his job), or the terrible job he's done to clean up the city's streets (turinng the place into a "refuge" city didn't exactly help with the city's already sketchy areas) I hope this final straw that buries him politically so that we never have to see is sleezy smirk on campaign adds when he tries to run for governor, congress, senate, president. If I were homosexual I would distance myself as far away from that idiot as possible, b/c he hurt your efforts on this issue far more than he ever helped.

[Joe]

The only disgrace to marriage is the heterosexual people that abuse the priviledge they have. How many people in America have to get divorced before we realize the institution of marriage is antiquated.

If you want to get married, go to your religious leaders to have a ceremony. I don't understand why the government is even involved with this. If the government shouldn't be encouraging or accepting somebodies lifestyle (homosexuality) then they should be encouraging or licensing other peoples chosen lifestyle (having a family). There is nothing in the bill of rights that says you have the right to be married.

If you are going to open the instituation of marriage for one group, then it is good for all. My religion says it is wrong to kill animals for food. Am I advocating everyone share my beliefs and be a vegetarian? Absolutely not because I am tolerant of other people's choices. You have no right to impose your religious views on a group of people. Last time I checked, two homosexuals getting married will have no bearing on you own marriage. If anything, it will make us heterosexuals look like idiots because all we do is marry and divorce.

Mormons, cathotics, atheists, muslims, jews and everything in between, all have got divorced. Did the disparage the institution of marriage? The government needs to step out of our lives. If people choose to get married, leave that in the church not the courthouse.

I propose a new proposition on the ballot for the next election to abolish marriage altogether.

[Cal in Orange County]

Wow...Mormons are less than 2% of the population in California (almost 1/2 of them children) and yet they're taking the blame for the failure of "NO on Prop 8".

Look at the math, over 52% voted "YES on Prop 8", yet less than 2% of the population gets the whole blame for Prop 8 passing. Sounds a lot like Germany in the 1930s blaming all their problems on the Jews. Now who are the ones radiating HATE?

[evan]

i don't understand how people don't find it hilarious that so many prop. 8 supporters insists that they still have all the rights just under their own category (domestic partnership). Its laughable that these people fail understand that "separate but equal" was deemed wrong in america almost half a century ago.

But while we're at it I am for constitutional ammendments against the following groups that slightly annoy me.
-People that still write checks at the grocery store
-People that have super bright headlights on SUVs in the middle of the city
-People that save entire rows of seats at the movie theater using combinations of sweaters, purses, and hats

[Vivien]

Shame on the Los Angeles Times for allowing hate speech on their comments board. I guess unless you're black or Jewish or Sarah Palin, you're fair game for the death threats and urging of suicide as written by the Neanderthals on this board.

That said -- I'm a complete believer in reciprocity. Any gay or lesbian who does any business or hires or speaks civilly with any Mormon, Black Christian who voted Yes, Orthodox Jew who voted Yes is ridiculous. Just as the bigots have their so-called right to deny us a fundamental human right, we have the ability to simply not spend any money or associate in any way with the idiots.

I don't care about your stupid God. I'm not a member of the ridiculous Abrahamic faiths and my religion has ZERO issue with homosexuality. I'm an American citizen and citizen of California who has paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes, created jobs for hardworking people and spread millions of dollars through out the economy in the form of my business expenditures and payroll. What I will be doing within the law is simply making sure that this money is no longer spent with any of the above idiots and moving much of my business operations out of this state to more welcoming climes.

No equality. No money. Simple ... Good luck, morons, trying to close the deficit without my funding. Keep it up and there are plenty of people in India, Brazil and China who can do the work I need done. That way you can be self-righteous morons without my money. I hope all Gay people do the same.

BTW ... I laugh when I hear Christians talk about their moral superiority.

This coming from a church (Mormons) that endorsed pedophilia, polygamy, discrimination against blacks into the 70s and another church (Catholic) that houses the greatest concentration of child molesters in the world.

Yeah right. God's law. May I remind you morons of a passage from your own holy book -- something about casting the beam out of your own eye before you cast the mote out of mine. I live for the day that you are judged.

[godsmack]

Thank for you for the protests! Keep strong LGBT Community! Slow and steady wins the race.

[Greenpoint Guy]

Dave writes:

"I am still waiting for someone to show me one right the gays lost because they can't marry. Marriage itself is NOT a right. Gays still have ALL the legal benefits and then some. The only thing they can't do is use the term marriage when they form relationships together. They can't refer to the relationship as a marriage. Big deal. They have EVERYTHING else. Why do they insist on ruining what thousands of years of traditional marriage means (for everyone else) just so they can be called "married".
The ONLY reason for such a desire (to be called "married") is to be accepted by the non-gay community. Except for the name, Domestic Partnerships give gays the same rights as anyone else. That's why GAYS DON'T NEED TO BE MARRIED. It's just not necessary.
The people decided. Having a rally is fine, but don't get violent and don't vandalize property. The sore losers that are going after the LDS church for this loss are miss directed and are hurting their cause in the long run. I have respect for gays, but I won't have respect for anyone who resorts to violence just because they don't like the outcome of the election."

Now, Dave, pretend it's 1929 in Germany and the National Socialist Party has just come into power. Change "gay" in your post to "jew" and "marriage" to "own businesses".

See how that sounds.

[Action Jackson]

Bill-

The Polygamists are not Mormon. They are not allowed to be a part of the church. It is because the LDS church believes that marriage should be between 1 man and 1 woman. Those wishing to practice polygamy are kicked out to the church and often start their own religions.

If you are going to start accusing the Mormon's of something, you should probably get your facts straigh.

[tara]

Obama: marriage is between a man and a woman.

[Cesar]

How would anyone feel if they told you that you cannot get married. All they want to do is get married legally under the eyes of the law. It's so simple. Why do people not understand that. Traditional marriage IS NOT between a man and a woman, it is between two people that love each other. That is what marriage means. Those that were in favor of Prop.8 are just afraid that things are changing. Like Bob Dylan said, "the times, they are a-changin."

[Mike]

"The ONLY reason for such a desire (to be called "married") is to be accepted by the non-gay community." - Dave The fact that you don't feel you should have to accept "the gays" is exactly why the word matters. Or do you propose changing the definition of discrimination in the state constitution as well? You ask "Why do they insist on ruining what thousands of years of traditional marriage means..." well let me turn it around. How do gay couples being "married" ruin your or my straight marriage? They don't. It's fine for you to think the gays are icky, but it's not fine for the constitution to single a group out for separate, and by your own admission, less acceptable treatment.

[joe martin]

" I am disgusted to think that there are those out there that infringe their own beliefs on someone else and damage in the meanwhile, selfishly thinking nothing of it. Why cant two human being of the same sex experience this too? In this dictionary the word love doesnt say..oh yeh, but all this can only be between a man & woman"....Lola C.

IN RESPONSE: HUH!?!? That's why there are moral laws...according to your unlogical reasoning child molesters can do what they want right? Hey all they were doing is LOVING? what about the necromancer? He LOVES the corpse right? MY POINT IS THIS: THERE MUST BE MORAL LAWS TO GOVERN SOCIETY AND LIKE IT OR NOT THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED AND BASED IN JUDEO-CHRISTIAN WORLD VIEWS. YOU JUST CANNOT ERASE OR CHANGE HISTORY MUCH LESS REVISE IT ACCORDING TO YOUR PREFERRED MATRIX OF SOCIALOGICAL UPBRINGING. EVEN IN NATURAL SCIENTIFIC LAW IT IS PLAIN TO SEE THAT A VAGINA WAS MADE FOR A PENIS MUCH MORE THEOLOGICAL UNDERSTANDING.

[Troy]

I can proudly say that I am glad to be a Calfiornian today. Finally, the people said enough is enough to this foolishness. God made male and female. If he wanted men to be men or women to be with women....he would have designed it that way. He didnt. To the people that say that gays have no rights....please, spare me! You cant say anything towards or about gays without being classified as a hate monger or homophobe. Bottom line, homosexuality is wrong! And all of you people who are living that lifestyle will have to answer to God for your lifestyle. As an African - American I am appalled that you will try to equate this with civil rights. Gayness is not a race or religion...it is a choice. People do not have the choice to determine the color of their skin....they do have the choice to be gay or not. That is an individual decision.
I do not want your 'lifestyle' shoved down my throat. You dont like the laws in California? Leave and take your filth with you. Go to Mass, Ct, or Canada, and live happily ever after in damnation. Prop 8 was a fair and square battle that confirmed what has been the deal since time began. Marriage is a union between a man and woman. Animals can seem to grasp this, why cant you?