Prop. 8 foes go to city halls -- and to South Coast Plaza

After major protests around California last weekend, Proposition 8 foes promise to be out in force this weekend for what they hope will be a national demonstration against the ban on gay marriage.

Activists are planning to take their protests against the passage of Proposition 8 and similar measures nationwide Saturday. They have lofty goals for the event, which will take place outside city halls, state capitols and the U.S. Capitol in Washington.

Proposition 8 amends the California Constitution to define marriage as between a man and a woman. Similar measures were also passed in Arizona and Florida.

Jointheimpact.com lists protest sites across the United States. In the Southland, they include:

• Long Beach City Hall on Ocean Boulevard

• Los Angeles City Hall on Spring Street

• Pasadena City Hall on Garfield Avenue

• Riverside City Hall on Main Street

• Ventura City Hall on Poli Street

In Orange County, the protesters have decided against picketing a civic building and instead will converge on a place perhaps just as important: the South Coast Plaza shopping mall on Bear Street in Costa Mesa.

There was a small protest Monday at the corner of Centinela Avenue and La Cienega Boulevard in the Ladera Heights area, but it drew only a handful of protesters, participants said.

-- Alexandra Zavis

Comments

[Susan Wattles]

I am a heterosexual married woman living in south Orange County. I was FERVENTLY against Prop 8 and wanted to express that to the world. I contacted the No on 8 campaign to procur a sign and bumper sticker and somewhere to attend a protest...to no avail. I was confronted daily by a barrage of Yes signs and saw only home-made No signs (I made one) and saw only one No protest which was a few high school kids on a corner. Where were all the protestors then? Why are they only coming out on the streets now? Maybe if their presence had been known before the election it could have had an impact. Now they are having to fight against something that has been voted on and passed which seems like a losing battle and the wrong way to cause an effect.

[stacy turn]

GET A LIFE, PEOPLE!!! Why don't you use this energy to do some good in the world?????

[mark]

BOYCOTT Utah
i have written all the sponsors of the Sundance Film Festival asking them to exert the pressure to move Sundance outside of Utah this year.
Sponsors are listed here
http://www.sundance.org/festival/press_industry/releases/2008-01-14-sponsors.asp

These companies KNOW gays/lesbians, do they suppose the people they KNOW will remember of forget who stood with us while OUR families were attacked and who didn't?
If you thought the later, you don't know gays/lesbians....I still won't buy FL orange juice or Coors beer decades later.

[Audra]

Susan- Here in OC, I saw numerous rallies on street corners, etc. I attempted to contact no on 8 for a sign as well. By the time I wanted one, they were sold out. Remember that no on 8 did not have nearly the funds that yes on 8 had.

As for people rallying now. Why shouldn't they? Why should we hide in the shadows and accept our fate? We should make sure our voices are heard as long as we can!

[patricia]

I'm thoroughly disgusted by the behavior of folks who lost the battle on prop 8.we the people have voted on this issue twice now and the protesters are acting like a buch of whiney, spoiled children. would those of us who voted yes on 8 be out marching in the streets against them if we lost...no way. protesters are using hate speech against those of us who have religious or moral beliefs about same-sex marriage. they are the bigots who will tolerate no less than evrything they want, when they want it. do they really think that interfering with traffic & people trying to get to their jobs or pick up their kids are going to join their cause when they have absolutely NO regard for all the incovenience they are causing us? No one's being prevented from loving who they want to love & civil unions give them legal & financial protection. when I started seeing swastikas on the no on 8 protesters signs I realized they have definitely gone over the edge. we must not let the noisy minority be allowed to overturn the people's vote & legislate from the bench. don't they realize california's in a desperate economic situation & we need to focus on more important issues? the election's over, you lost, deal with it & grow up!

[Sally Jones]

I agree with you Susan, but we were caught off guard by the Mormon Church, et al. Also, in the OC, many of us still live in fear of the H8, and that's why a minorities rights shouldn't be put up to a majority vote.

[Cal]

Susan folks like you are angels. I agree that the No on 8 campaign was totally unprepared. I think there was disbelief that a law like this could ever pass in California where people normally stand up for civil rights, not for taking them away.

[Jean]

Whether some individuals want to admit it or not, homosexuality and marriage really do not have anything to do with each other. Having mass temper tantrums won't change that.

A large part of the problem is that many of us have allow a few to redefine the language. I never allow my children (or anyone else) to do that. Once that happens, things start to get murky, unclear, and rather distorted.

I, for example, do not call a person crooked, or bent, or warped. I really don't know what a "straight" person is. As opposed to what?

A lot of people are simply not willing to go along with an "anything goes" attitude. To deliberately decide to engage in deviant behavior and then demand that everyone else condone it is fairly outrageous.

There are other ways to get attention. That type of behavior is simply not an appropriate way. At some level, homosexuals undoubtedly know this. Nevertheless, now it is time to act up again.

[john]

You didn't see us Chrisitans protesting all over the place and spewing venomous insults when the God-hating state supreme court overturned prop 22! We moved against the evil with our vote! Gays just think the laws of the land should not apply to them. They think they are special. God does not think so. Most likely this comment will not end up posted since it is not politcaly correct and supportive of evil.

[Debby]

Audra,
It is well documented that the No on 8 people had MORE funds than the Yes people. No- approximately 38 million, Yes- approximately 32 million... I would be interested to know how each group spent their money. There were way more yes on 8 signs out there, so maybe the No group spent more on TV ads. I don't know. I just know that the argument that the "yes" people "bought" the victory doesn't hold up when the donations are compared.

[Donna]

Are we becoming a socialist state when the will of the people can be overturned by the minority. I have taught my daughter to be accepting of people who are diiferent than her not only in color that she can see but beliefs as well (she is olnly 10 so haven't gone into sexual orientation stuff) But I have also taught her that you must be a good sport when you lose and not whine and cry. I think some parents forgot to teach that to their children and they think if they throw a big enough temper tamtrum they will get what they want. Spoiled children become dissatisified adults.

[science_based]

When you get past the media spin, and 30-second sound bites, and examine the real impact to our laws and freedoms...same-sex marriage would dramatically reduce our freedom of speech and our freedom of religion, taking us back to the dark ages where people are harassed and persecuted for expressing their beliefs and opinions. One can already see these tendencies in the response of the No on 8 extremists to the outcome of the vote. Same-sex marriage is a regressive social issue if there ever was one.

[Leticia]

GET OVER IT. LIFE GOES ON, IS A DONE DEAL. GET OVER IT. CRY BABIES!!!!

[Young]

That's right Patricia, protesting after a loss is not very persuasive. Really more like a turn-off.

[Renae]

Well put PATRICA!

I agree with you 100%. This is the second time this has passed, so that means over half of CA is against gay marrage... How hard is that acept?

I used to not have anything against gay people at all, but now their behavior is changing my mind.

[Joe]

Stacy, why don't you use that negative energy and turn it around and do some good of your own. I'm tired of all the pots calling kettles black.

[UmmmmmNo]

Someone said the "Yes" side had more money... not true. Look at the figures, the "No" side actually had MORE money than the "Yes" side. The "No" side was simply complacent with an early lead. Frankly, shame on the entire "No" side for not being better organized. Hopefully now the "No" side will get its act together.

[Sally Jones]

Dear Patricia,

Thank you for explaining so clearly with your words why some people voted yes on 8 - you aren't very kind to others, and you're ignorant about how any and all social movements make head way - like your and my ability to vote as women. Please go educate yourself, regardless of your feelings on 8. We need you to understand history.

[Joshua]

Patricia,

You may have voted as citizens on the issue twice, but since when does America vote on which groups of people should and should not be afford rights? How would you feel if we all voted to outlaw your right to drive because we didn't like your eye color? I bet you would be upset and you would adamently protest and appeal to the courts for protection. If you would do the same thing if your marriage or your rights were attacked, why shouldn't we? James Madison, the author of our Constitution, said that the Constitution is there to protect the rights of the minority from the tyranny of the majority. The majority becomes a tyranny when it decides and uses the ballot box to take away rights afforded to minority groups.

[therationalist]

Patricia: Thank you for your support of civil unions and "legal and financial protection". When can we expect those rights and protections to arrive? I'm really looking forward to them. You know that we aren't even protected by federal hate crime legislation at the moment, right?

[Kat]

Audra...I'm sorry to say but this issue is never going to go away. Rights were taken away and they are not just going to lay over and play dead.

[Jack]

Swastikas are saying those who voted Yes are Nazis. Gay people have finally decided this is enough. We will fight tooth and nail for decades if we have to. And I mean NAILS. We aren't invisible anymore, America better get used to it. We aren't gonna sit in our dark closets with no sunlight, we are gonna march upon those who intend to keep us down.

[Mmm donuts]

Patricia, to you this is an inconvenience and you think we should shut up and go to the back of the bus. Calling us bigots really is just ignorant and shows a lack of understanding of the term. One positive thing for you at this moment in history: you have a personal insight into how the men of the early 1900s felt as women fought for the right to vote. You understand how many white Southerners felt who fought to suppress black people. They felt just as self-righteous as you do now, and no doubt they gave the same advice to the minorities in their days: shut up, quit whining, and accept your lower status.

[David Gerrold]

So, some people are inconvenienced by the protests. They're saying, "You lost, stop whining, get over it." Would those same people have said the same thing to Martin Luther King or Gandhi? What they really mean is "go away, go back in the closet, stop making me uncomfrortable."

No.

This isn't just about gay rights, and it's not about marriage -- it's about the majority trying to take away the civil rights of a minority. If we allow this ugly precedent to stand, who's next? Arab-Americans? Jews? African-Americans? People with disabilities? Who's next?

The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled more than once that "the tyranny of the majority" cannot stand, cannot be used to revoke the rights of others.

So the protests are inconvenient? Too bad. That's how change comes about, by taking a stand against intolerable circumstances. The Supreme Court has also ruled that marriage is a sacred and fundamental right, part of the guarantees of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Until all Americans are able to enjoy their fundamental rights, the protests will continue. Get over it.

[mike moore]

Patricia, you dumb twit, we're here, we're queer, and we're not going away.

you better get used to a lot of inconveniences, because you shown the gay community how much you hate us (because YOU telling ME that I can't marry the man I've loved for 22 years is a hateful thing to do, pure and simple), and now we know we have real enemies out there, and we are only gonna fight harder now.

[Bruce Butler]

I attended the protest at the Saddleback church on Sunday the 9th. There were well over a thousand people there, not the 200 or 300 hundred reported by the press. Let's all go back again for the next few Sundays, until our equal rights are restored. We need to make an example of the rev. Rick Warren, who emailed his 10,000 members, and encouraged them to vote for prop. H8. This will get him where it hurts the most, in his collection plate. I'm sure that many of his congregants will want to attend another place of worship that is more peaceful. So, see you all there once again. Sunday, Nov. 16th, at 10:00AM
Address: 1 Saddleback Pkwy, Lake Forest, CA 92630

[jason]

Patricia,

thanks for your comments.

this is what is looks like when people have their rights taken away. they tend to not like it. they tend to get angry. they tend to protest. they tend to speak out against the injustice.

i'm sure many letters to the editor where written in your exact format during the civil rights struggle and when women fought for their right to vote.

congrats on your wit

[in_awe]

Patricia: The point of these protests ARE to inconvenience you. Much like the bus boycotts and sit ins inconvenienced people in the south during the civil rights movement. Our battle is one and the same, and to us this is the MOST important battle that we can fight right now. The economy, or any other issue in the state right now is dwarfed next to the injustice and bigotry that we have had to endure in the face of this election. Unfortunately there are still people like you who believe that our rights can be taken away with a simple, however much wiser and experienced minds in the legislature disagree with you. It our duty to make our voice heard as LOUD and CLEAR as possible, so that the people with the power to undo this injustice hear us, and bring their conscience with them to the bench. May God have mercy on California in this dark hour.

[Guy Burgess]

Boycott Utah!!

http://digg.com/politics/BOYCOTT_UTAH

Also don't forget to remind the black community how much they have let us down after all we've done for them!

Picket your local black churches. I'll be showing up in Oakland this weekend...get all your friends out!

This shall not stand!

[Guy Burgess]

Boycott Utah!!

http://digg.com/politics/BOYCOTT_UTAH

Also don't forget to remind the black community how much they have let us down after all we've done for them!

Picket your local black churches. I'll be showing up in Oakland this weekend...get all your friends out!

This shall not stand!

[Stonecipher]

At the very least, maybe this thing convinced a few people to become voters:

http://stonecipher.typepad.com/the_stonecipher_report/2008/11/the-folly-of-my-non-voting-ways.html

[Fetrovsky]

Proposition 8 didn't take any rights away. Marriage has always been a man and a woman. Proposition 8 was just a clarification because the constitution was ambiguous. Homosexual couples can get official recognition as life partnerships. Now get off the streets and work or something... the economy needs it.

[SFchristo]

Patricia wrote, "I'm thoroughly disgusted by the behavior of folks who lost the battle on prop 8.we the people have voted on this issue twice now and the protesters are acting like a buch of whiney, spoiled children."

What if you had voted twice about taking the rights of blacks and whites to marry AFTER the courts had decided it was against civil rights?

That's what's happened here. A slim majority has voted in discrimination. That is not acceptable. Marriage equality is here to stay. Its not going away in Mass. or Connecticut. It is not an experiment in Spain, Belgium and South Africa. It is the new wave of civil rights.

By voting in 8, you have awakened a giant.

[jen]

STOP PEOPLE for a moment and think about how it must feel to vote for something and have it approved, and then have to see and hear over and over again from people who lost. Yes, you LOST. The state has spoken and is not yet ready for the sodomites to stain the sacred word of marriage.
BUT>>>NOT TO WORRY SODOMITES.
In time, with the support of Hollywood, you will grind enough people to a point where they accept your unnatural actions. You will sneak your corrupt ways into the school system and right when they are done teaching evolution, they can mention mutations and gays. DO NOT FRET. It is clear by programs on tv like Gossip Girl, Family Guy, Simpson's, 70s Show, etc. that your time will come to be accepted. It won't change the fact that your actions are unnatural. Be patient, as it's only a matter of time.

[Roxanne]

Like Susan, I'm a heterosexual married woman living in south Orange County. I voted no on 8 and tried to convince as many people as I could to do the same. We didn't quite get it this time, but if Prop 8 has done anything it's convinced me that I need to be a stronger, louder, more active supporter of gay rights. I'll be protesting, donating, and making as much noise as necessary until we get this horrible bigotry out of California's constitution.

[John]

Audra said,
"I attempted to contact no on 8 for a sign as well. By the time I wanted one, they were sold out. Remember that no on 8 did not have nearly the funds that yes on 8 had."

According to the LA Times the No side collected about $2,300,000 more than the Yes side did. NO-$38,400,000 (rounded), YES-$36,100,000(rounded).

Nobody's "rights" have been taken away. Only the definition of marriage has been restored to what it has always been. There are a lot of relationships that do not fit the definition of "marriage." You cannot marry your sister or brother or child. In some states you cannot marry your cousin.

What the GLBT groups want is to expand the definition of marriage.

[CaliG]

I think we were unprepared because we expended so much effort in the gay community getting Obama elected. I gave the max allowed and phone banked every weekend. It's a shame this make Obama's vistory so bittersweet.

[Protesting in LA]

Go to protest8la.wordpress.com for more info on Saturday's protest here in LA.

[dharmazi]

To all the people vote for no for prop 8:
Just be prepared if your son/daughter will be gay, and your grandchildren will marry to his/her pet. Human race will be eliminated in 6 generations.

[Charlotte]

I am not gay, and this is not a gay issue, this is a clear violation of church and state, period. No on from the yes side has been able to give me any legal reason why 8 should have even existed, let alone passed, other than using a bunch of bible and religious crap.

GIVE ME ALEGAL REASON......there is none, and to try to put nature and having kids etc. is not a real excuse either as many married people either don't have kids or can't......
So please everyone, gay or straight, we need to fight this because we know what happens when you have a theocracy....just look at the Middle East. Keep fighting and I can bet that there will be a ton of straight people at the rallies as well......Yes, much should have been done before Nov. 4th, but I don't think anyone realized how brain washed with religious nonesense 52% of our population is.....

Our country is less than 300 years old, we are still evolviving towards a "more perfect union" and this is one of the fights that we have to fight, straight and gay, in order to erase just a little more intolerance from our laws. We should not blame individuals or certain races who voted Yes, but we should question the religious mega powers, who with their tax exempt status, have focused tax free money toward promoting intolerace....and forcing their religious ideologies on unsuspecting citizens.

In another 40 years or so, we may see our first gay president, and that would make this country even better than it is now.

[Kirk]

Why weren't we protesting before the vote you ask? Mainly, because we saw the Yes on 8 campaign ads, which gave Californians the most ridiculous reasons, unsubstantial reasons to vote in favor of the measure. We did not believe that 21st century voters in California would go along with their smear campaign. Protect the sanctity of marriage? Let's reflect on that sanctity in the case of Pamela Anderson and on alternate weekends Kid Rock or Tommy Lee. or on the sanctity of all 6 of Liz Taylor's marriages. Protect the children? This message sponsored by the Catholic church and the Mormon church which both have a track record of NOT protecting children. And then, California's top politicians made commercials appealing to the electorate not to support this initiative. It was shocking to see the extent of support the initiative got, and they still cannot give one tangible reason why it was important to add this discrimination to the Constitution. Why do we march now? To let those people know that we will not be silent when you come to discriminate against us. Didn't know we had to before, but we sure know now.

[Scott B.]

"GET A LIFE, PEOPLE!!! Why don't you use this energy to do some good in the world?????"

The same could be said about the millions of money the coalition of churches spent on the Yes campaign. If they could band together for something GOOD such as, oh, working against child abuse or helping the poor or providing computers in all schools or...

No, instead they choose to rally around a cause that effectively limits the civil rights of one segment of the population.

Any law or amendment or article or whatever you want to call it that begins with "Eliminates the rights of..." is obvious discrimination.

The pro-Gay marriage camp has never, ever wanted - nor tried - to change any church doctrines, or what is being taught in school. All we wanted to do was make it legal in the state. NOT in any church. And the Supreme Court was specific about not mandating that the churches change anything.

And not everyone is a "Christian" - so for them to constantly push their beliefs on the rest of the population is an insult to all the other religions that are followed in this country.

They're just afraid of gay people. Whatever. Regardless of what they do, gay people will still get married, will still have families, and yes, will still raise children.

We're not going anywhere. All this is, is a slight detour in the road to freedom.

[Deborah G.]

Susan- i think many people were caught off guard- gays and straights alike. personally, I knew it was going to be close, but didn't imagine it would pass and how I would feel when it did. I woke up excited and moved with the election win of Obama (brought to tears) and then feeling deflated and depressed about gay rights being stripped. I now feel a personal commitment to the gay rights movement, and am ashamed that I didn't galvanize my friends, family, community with the campaign.

It reminds me of the Japanese Admiral, Isoroku Yamamoto who said on the attack on Pearl Harbor, "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

This is what is happening to the gay rights movement.

[B]

Dear Patricia and those blind to the real issue at hand,

You say that the people have voted. They may have. But gay marriages were already legal in some areas of California before the November 4th election. In addition, the California Supreme court ruled in favor of the No on 8 views before the measure was even in consideration to be on the ballot. So in essence, by placing Prop 8 on the ballot and supporting it, Yes on 8 is going against the court system in place in California. So before you complain about us going against the people's vote, you should look at yourself and ask why you are going against the California Supreme court ruling.

Also, you dare talk about the inconvenience WE against prop 8 are causing you. There are over 1400 rights given to married couples in the state of California. By taking the single right of marriage away from gay and lesbian couples, you are in essence taking away these 1400+ rights. By saying civil unions are the same as marriage is like saying apples are the same as oranges. Separate IS NOT equal. Period. In case you forgot, maybe you should read up on Brown vs. Board of Education.

Speaking of education, if you went to middle or high school in the US, you learned about Rosa Parks, Booker T. Washington, Martin Luther King Jr., the fight for women's sufferage, Cesar Chavez, and the treatment of the Japanese during WWII. We teach this in our schools in hopes that the future generations of Americans will learn from our past and not make the same mistakes regarding discrimination as our ancestors have. How can you teach lessons in American history regarding discrimination against (what you call) a "noisy minority" and how wrong it was when you continue to do the exact same thing today? Think about it...

It may be true that history repeats itself. In that case, I say bring it. For every civil rights movement in American history has resulted in victory for the minority at hand. From the times of slavery until November 4th, 2008, African Americans have been looking for a sign that they can point to that shows that equality has become a reality. So, we say bring it. We will prevail and we will not stop fighting, whether you like it or not. Whether it is a fight lasting one year or 100, we will continue to fight.

And if you want to talk about the more important issues, then why did you support placing Prop 8 on the ballot in the first place? The amount of money going into this single proposition is nothing but absurd. When there are ballot measures dealing with health care, education, public transportation, crime control, and disabilities, where was your money then? If the religious extremes want to use "the children" as grounds for forwarding the Yes on 8 campaign, then I expect to see just as much money, time, and effort supporting ballot measures affecting our school's education than were spent supporting Yes on 8.

I'm not a religious person at all. I have many, many friends of diverse faiths, but I personally do not believe in that stuff. The difference is, you don't see me trying to push a ballot measure that stops them. Just like I am fighting so hard to allow gays and lesbians to be married in the state of California, I would fight equally as hard for churches to reserve the right to perform such marriages.

We're not the ones who need to grow up. It is people like you who need to realize we are in the 21st century. Wake up and revisit your US History books, for until people like you begin to learn from the mistakes of our past, our society can never move on to tackle the real issues at hand.

[Justin]

Patricia,

Let's turn the tables a bit. First of all, being homosexual is not a choice, but to be fair, let's say that it is a choice, just as your religion is a choice. Now suppose 52% of the population voted to take your right to an education away because of your religion. They think that your religion is wrong and that by having you interact with other students, our children will grow up confused and uneducated. They believe having you in our schools would ruin one of the most important and fundamental institutions of this country. Instead, they would put you in an "alternative education program" where you learn much of the same thing, but your degree would not be valid anywhere except within your own school. Would you just sit there, grow up and deal with it?

Lucky for you, you are part of the majority, and that would never happen to you. But unfortunately that happened to same-sex partners across California. An issue that takes away rights should never be left to the public for just a mere majority vote, or for any vote for that matter. Many people claim that marriage is not a "right," but if you had your right to an education taken away--if you had your right to marry taken away--you would complain.

We are not asking for more than what is deserved. There are bigots on both sides of the issues, but we are not people who are fighting to take rights away from you. We are just asking to have the same right to marry the person we love. "Separate, but equal" is never equal in this country. Civil unions do not equate with marriage. But if people didn't fight for civil rights decades ago in the same way that we are fighting now, we would never have seen the election of our next president. Our country would be colorless and years behind.

Are the protests an inconvenience? Perhaps to the 52% of California who voted Yes on Prop 8. But to the other 48% (who by the way still matter in this state), the protests represent hope, perseverance, and the struggle for equality.

[John in SF]

Patricia - and others -

If the majority voted to take away freedom of religion, do you suppose that people would just "get over it".

If the majority voted to take away woman's right to vote, do you suppose that people would "just get over it".

If the majority voted to take away the right to keep and bear arms, do you suppose that people would "just get over it".

If the majority took away the right of straight people to marry who they wanted, do you suppose the poeple would "just get over it".

Americans are so jaded by Bush administration's abuse of our civil rights that they don't understand when people actually stand up and demand that their rights be recognized.

Oh, sorry for any inconvenience that our side has caused you. I guess it's not polite to actually believe in the Constitution (which by the way, requires a 2/3 vote of each house of the assembly and then a Constitutional Convention in order to be revised...)

[Charles]

The gay community is missing the point here. The biggest opposition to Gay marriage is not about Nazis, civil rights, or bigotry. They may view this through a secular prism, but we are not talking about an entirely secular institution here.

To many people in America, Marriage is more then just pen on paper. in virtually every faith and creed, Marriage is a sacred pact with God (Or Gods) and is often viewed as one of the most sacred spiritual unions that can be achieved on earth. In some religions, such as mormonism, Marriage is even neccesary to achieve eternity or whatever reward is promised (No, I'm not Mormon, just stating)

While you may see trying to institutionalise Gay marriage as simply a matter of civil liberties, these people see this as a direct attack on their God, and they will not change their mind about this, and you simply cannot "reeducate" people from religious canons that are considered sacrosants. The Episcopal Church in America is in Schism right now over this very Issue! If you think protesting these people Churches, Temples, and holy places will somehow change their minds, you are dead wrong. If anything, they won't just think you are attacking their Religion and Deity, they will know it and your opposition will just get fiercer.

[Pie-Kun]

Isn't this ironic?

All these Christian Conservatives have become fighters for voters. Hey, where were all you guys when Al Gore won the popular vote? Oh that's right, you were asking the Supreme Court to declare Bush the winner.

How would you guys feel if the majority of voters decided that Churchs shouldn't get tax-exempt status? How about if voters declared that no mention of God should appear in any government building? Wouldn't be clamoring for the majority then, would you?

The fact is that the popular opinion for inter-racial marriage when the Supreme Court legalized it was nearly THREE IN FOUR AGAINST IT. Just because the majority thinks it does not make it right.

[Belle]

So, suddenly marriage is a basic human right - says whom!? 4 elitist, activist judges, and the homosexual lobby? Makes me cringe everytime I read that phrase. They make it sound like they have had this ‘right’ since the beginning of time - when in actuality, it was bought and paid for last May… that doesn't make it a 'right,' it makes it a backdoor workaround/override by bullies who didn't have the courage or confidence to try the front door, as dictated by the democratic process.

Speaking of 'rights,' we should ALL be incensed that the actual and true basic human and democratic ‘rights’ of the people of CA were completely ignored when this act of judicial defiance took place. Just because it’s suddenly declared ‘legal’ doesn’t make it right, or 'a right'

Now that the election has been held, the true rainbow colors of the 'tolerant' are glaring through... tagging churches under the guise of "free speech?" interesting brand of tolerance they disclose. Sounds more like juvenile delinquents incessantly chanting, "agree with us, or else!"

And, Robert Redford (owner of Sundance) most certainly didn't contribute to Yes on 8... of all people why punish him? If you ask almost anyone who lives in Utah, they all would prefer that the Hollywood film festival and ensuing outsider crowds leave the state altogether anyway. The non-Park City UT residents, see a boycott by outsiders of a forseeably perfect ski season as a good thing -make sure you clearly understand your target before you take aim :) That is actually pretty funny - another totally irrational path.

So schemers, let's be strategic, what can you go after instead? since you claim the mormon church is disproportionately responsible for the big 52% win, (talk about the miracle of the loaves and fishes!) then why don't you boycott the LDS church?

Maybe start with poisoning the food in their welfare program? Then you could cut off their humanitarian service aid to world disasters... You know they truly are so "hateful" to help all those non-mormon earthquake and flood victims. From what I understand their church is consistently the 1st responder on a moments notice, anywhere in the world - yup, go after them. They are such despicable haters, and certainly deserve to be punished, punished, punished!

hopefully you all noted the fed-up sarcasm - I say, "enough!" For those of you who didn't notice until now... Sorry if you missed it, but the election that decided all of this... uh... it was last week.

[Wes]

The courts exist to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

If this country's destiny was left up to the "will of the people" by a vote, slavery would have been around for another 100 years, we would still have Jim Crow laws and people from mixed races wouldn't be able to marry.

Nobody says you can't have your religious beliefs. You are welcome to them. As a matter of fact, I will FIGHT for your right to worship and believe as you wish. BUT, you can't force your religious beliefs on me or on the state. I will also FIGHT to prevent you from forcing your religious beliefs into law.

America is not, has never been and, God willing, never will be a theocracy.

Proposition 8 does not amend the California constitution, it revises it because it denies equal protection under the law to a group of people. A revision to the constitution must be approved by 2/3 of the legislature AND a vote of the people.

[goddesslo]

mmmdonuts, in_awe, joshua,
Well spoken.

H8ers,
How dare you take YOUR religion and cram it up MY nose through your ballot choice.

[Rob]

To the GLT communities, keep up the good fight, don't give in and don't give up. I live outside CA, but I'm rooting for you. Rights should never be put to a bare minority vote, its not how our American Democracy works, never has been, indeed our Democracy was designed to protect minorities from just this sort of thing. To all the angry people telling GLT's to "get over it", perhaps you should spend some time meditating on that, no one is asking you to like anything, your just being asked to NOT interfere with the rights of another individual. Hang in there GLT, I think your going to win, and those who follow the god of war only have a generation left in them, they are on the decline as people are finally waking up and getting past hate, ignorance, and intolerance.
Peace.

[Tiffany]

It really saddens my heart to see that there are people who are forcing their opinions on votes that already have been voted by the majority of Californians. Marriage is not something you call out for one's equal rights. This is a privilege that is given by God and I just don't understand why gays/lesbians are not accepting this fact. We've already voted twice and each time people clearly expressed how they want to define marriage: a union between a man and a woman. If you truly believe that your rights are taken away from this proposition, have you ever thought of those who had to fight for their rights in this country? Myself being an Asian American, the first thing that I have to face is all types of racial discriminations. Have you every thought of MY rights in this country without stereotypes and racisms that others throw at my face every day? Then should I do the same as those of you who are calling out for your "equal" rights for marriage? Personally, I believe this is ridiculous fight that you are doing by wasting your time and others'. It also seems like the majority of protesters are whites who haven't even thought of issues like racial discriminations that people are dealing with on their daily lives (oh yes, you are white and you don't feel the tension and hear any racial remarks from others).. If you so badly want your equal rights as you claim, why don't you also fight for the rights of others before asking yours? You are just being selfish and have complete narcissistic view of yourself that only your rights and your freedom are the MOST important thing in this world.
Why don't you wake up and smell the reality? and stop being egocenturic people.

[Prof Mo]

SFchristo, by the same-sex marriage community rejecting the democratic process is the problem. In a democracy, the majority rule. If you don't like, move out. I'm an African-American and I strongly resent comparing homosexual rights with those of women and blacks. I get discriminated without event talking to you. Even children who don't care about sexual orientation get discriminated against because of their skin color.

[Let them eat licenses]

BEFORE THIS GOES TO FAR WE MUST PROTECT DIVORCE FROM THE GAYS! PLEES DONAT TO GODS CAWS! HTTP://PROTECTDIVORCE.ORG/

[let them eat theocractic nanny statism]

"Now get off the streets and work or something... the economy needs it."
yes, stop pursuing equal rights. instead spend all weekend doing something productive, like watching focus on the family, reading your ann coulter, listening obediently to michael weener, and other Allgemeine SS approved activities. reeducate yourselves! speak only rightspeak! think only rightthink! onward Christian Wehrmacht!

[Let them eat a superiority complex]

"Myself being an Asian American, the first thing that I have to face is all types of racial discriminations. [discrimination]" Yes, "asians" are smarter than "whites", according to the usual stereotypes. Such social opprobrium must be halted! Put another constitutional amendment on the ballot!

[JB]

Marriage is either a religious institution, in which case the government has no business making laws because we have a separation of church and state in this country, OR marriage as a civil union is a legal agreement that confers certain rights.

Civil unions that are recognized by the State as conferring certain rights can not exclude individuals or certain populations because we have a Constitutional right to equal protection under the law.

THIS is why no matter how many initiatives are passed, unless America changes the Federal Constitution, this ain't gonna fly. States aren't allowed to pass laws that contravene the Constitution - we fought a Civil War to decide that a while back.

[John in SF]

Tiffany and those who believe this is not a rights issue -

What is really sad is that even though you have experienced discrimination, you are willing to discriminate against others. One would think that the people most likely to be sympathetic to discrimination would be those who have experienced it first hand. It is truly sad that you know what discrimination looks like, yet you inflict it on others.

I also wonder why you and others ask why we put this on the ballot. LGBT people did not put this on the ballot. Why would we ever expose our rights to a referendum? When the Supreme Court finally recognized our fundamental right, why did your side not just "get over it" as you and your allies ask of us?

Why don't we just go along with majority rule? Well, because the courts in CA and all over the nation have ruled for decades that the right to marry is a fundamental right. Courts had to "redefine" marriage to include slaves, mixed race couples, and - now - LGBT. Marriage is a fundamendal right for everyone, not just for straight white people. Did you know that Barak Obama's parents could not have legally wed in many states? Think of that!! If Supreme Courts had not "redefined" marriage in the middle of the 20th century, our current president-elect might never have been born!!

Fundamental rights are not given by majority rule, they are given in the Constitution, and --- if you actually read the CA constitution --- you will see that a majority ballot initiative process can't be used to revise the Constitution.

Even if you could revise the constitution that way - would you WANT to start taking fundamental rights away from any one group? Why not put the fundamental rights of Asian Americans up for a vote next? Or African Americans? or Women? Of course we should never do that. And we should never have tried to take fundamental rights away from LGBT people.

It is so sad that our people know so little about history, civics, and love.

[John]

Jesus, what a socialist society we've become! In the time of our grandparents, the majority ruled women weren't worth of the right to vote, until those activist judges overturned the will of the people and allowed those sinful women to vote! Read your bible! God created men to rule. How dare you?

[David]

While we're at it, I'd like to protest Obama's win last Tuesday. McCain was the right choice. How could people be so blind? I want to start a protest march this Saturday. WHO'S WITH ME? I don't care what the voter's decided, it was clearly the wrong decision. Meet me at the corner of Highland and Melrose and we will march for justice. What's the procedure for suing the federal government over this voter based decision? Any help would be appreciated.

[George]

Januray 2, 2009. The Utah Jazz will be playing here at the Staples Center vs the Los Angeles Lakers. We need to boycott this game. Empty seats will speak volumes. LAKERS FANS UNITE!

http://www.nba.com/lakers/schedule/

[Raha]

To Guy Burgess: I am black and gay and voted no on prop 8. Blacks make up only 6.2% of the population in California and less than that are registered to vote and less than that actually voted. So, stop blaming the black vote. If none of them voted, it still would have passed. This is a religious issue. Religion should never be allowed into poitics

To the rest of you: The majority should never be allowed to vote on the rights of the minority. If so, Women would still not be able to vote or demand equal pay for equal work, interracial marriage would be illegal, and slavery would still be in effect. Those of you who voted yes on 8 were completely out of line. Keep your religious beliefs in your home and stay out of mine

[Betty]

The only "righteous" man from Sodom (Lot) had sex with both his daughters. The bible was written by humans, people. If you were gay you would be for equal treatment. The people on tv that seem the most angry also seem like repressed gays. Gay sex is hot.

[cc]

Why is it legal in California to marry ones own first cousin but gay people who just want to marry their beloved are no longer afforded the privilege that they were legally granted??? To take away ones' legal right and privilege is horrible. To amend the constitution for such is a massive mistake.

It is ignorant to even utter the words "domestic partnerships and civil unions give all the same rights". If that is so and the issue is being pushed, then "marriage" may go away and you too can have a domestic partnership or civil union. Then you will see it is not the same. Then you will not be able to have your federal tax benefits, survivorship benefits of social security, etc. Although gay marriage does not currently afford those benefits, one day it may be possible. So...maybe you pushing to dissolve ALL marriages is not such a bad thing. Keep going then all may have the same rights one day after all.

Another important issue: please stop saying that gay marriage will promote bigamy, incest, marriage to animals etc.. THIS IS SO STUPID AND IGNORANT! Straight people already allowed the incest thing under CA. law (see first comment). Want to protest something? Try that one and leave marriage alone. Notice I did not say gay marriage? Separate is not equal.

[expat]

Hear this, Patricia and all you other bigots, "the people" may have voted on this twice, but "the people" don't get to take away the civil rights of minorities. If they did, we'd still have segregated lunch counters in the Jim Crow South.

Get used to the protests and get ready for the boycotts. Look forward to harassment every day until your bigotry is defeated once and for all.

[expat]

Redefine marriage? What exactly is wrong with that? If this country hadn't redefined marriage a century ago, black people wouldn't be able to marry black people. And, when Barack Obama was born, his parents couldn't have gotten married in 16 states.

When your definition of marriage is hateful and bigoted it should be redefined.

And, by the way, your bigoted and hateful church won't have to bless gay marriages any more than the Catholic Church has to bless marriages of divorced people. So get over your bigotry.

[dopa-ness]

lets think about this in a different light, other than religious (which has no place in politics) or civil rights (since some people still believe that the homosexual community don't count as civil servants deserving of equal rights)...
let's look at it as the institute of marriage:
if marriage is SO sacred between a man and a woman, why is there so much abuse of it??!! i am completely heterosexual, but i respect the RIGHTS of ANYONE who wants to get married because they are in LOVE!!! just as much as the "yes on prop 8" people respect the rights of those of others who want to marry for money, political ties, or to gain citizenship. what's so sacred about that? what's so sacred about a heterosexual couple that gets married, only to end up in divorce before the wedding is even paid off? why are you even fighting so hard to "protect" something you don't even really care about? you think being heterosexual makes marriage sacred, while being homosexual makes it an aberration? get off your high horses and understand that marriage is about LOVE and respect, not about homo or hetero sexualities!!

[dopaness]

and as i read through these posts...

"Now get off the streets and work or something... the economy needs it."
~~~on another note, this quote is just plain ignorant. just about every homosexual i know is extremely successful (probably due to the fact that they are made to feel they must prove themselves in the workplace). to say they are merely on the streets protesting and need to get to work? really. find a better argument.

as for the asian american post, i, too, am asian american. what discrimination do you speak of? that's we're too smart? that we're too exotic? that we make our children (heaven forbid) study and get good grades? those are the only stereotypes i usually hear, and i don't think we need to start a riot over trivial stereotypes such as these...unless you would like to be thought of as stupid and ugly with idiot non-studious children...who's calling who egocentric now?

"It also seems like the majority of protesters are whites who haven't even thought of issues like racial discriminations that people are dealing with on their daily lives (oh yes, you are white and you don't feel the tension and hear any racial remarks from others)" ~~~and now the majority of homosexuals and their supporters are white? WHAT? NOW who's being racist? fyi, asian american homosexuals are LESS likely to come out of the closet because they have the least supportive families...you might have a 4.0, but if you're gay, you're out of the family...can't bring shame to the ancestors, you know! narrow-minded bigots, just like you!

"I'm an African-American and I strongly resent comparing homosexual rights with those of women and blacks. I get discriminated without event talking to you. Even children who don't care about sexual orientation get discriminated against because of their skin color."
~~~so, what you're saying is it's okay for you to think you're better than homosexuals because you're non-homosexual, but it's not okay for another race to think they're better than you because you're not of the same race? homosexual rights are not the same as the rights of women and blacks? because what? women and blacks are better than homosexuals? is that what you're saying? i LOVE the hypocrisy!! classic!!

[Tracy]

I just want to compliment Jen, the "Sodomite" poster, on possibly writing the most ignorant comments I've ever read in my life. I am surprised she knew how to fill out this form. Actually, I'm amazed she even knows how to get online or turn a computer on, for that matter (maybe someone did it for her). I applaud her for showcasing the level of logic that the people who voted for 8 hold.

Don't worry sodomites, one day Jen will live in the awful land of sodomy and she won't know what to do with herself. (If we're lucky, she'll move somewhere far, far away. Maybe somewhere over the rainbow ?)