Gay celebrities' reaction to passage of Prop. 8

Ellen is sad, Melissa is angry. And don't even get Mr. Sulu started. Reaction from gay celebrities over the passage of Proposition 8 is beginning to come in. A sample from Reuters:

Comedian Ellen DeGeneres said she was "saddened beyond belief" at the decision by voters to ban the newly won rights of gays and lesbians to marry in California. But singer Melissa Etheridge sounds downright angry. Etheridge, 47, who did not get to marry her partner Tammy Lynn Michaels before the Nov. 4 ballot, suggested in a blog post that she would no longer pay her California state taxes because, as a lesbian, she did not now enjoy the same rights as as other Californians. "Okay, so I am taking that to mean I do not have to pay my state taxes because I am not a full citizen," Etheridge wrote.

George Takei: "There are going to be heartbreaks, setbacks and sacrifices to be made. But we will soldier on."

The Times' database team has found some interesting new ways to examine the Prop. 8 vote:

• 12 counties voted to ban gay marriage by 70% or higher, down from 28 in 2000.

• The only county voting no on Prop. 8 that had more registered Republicans than Democrats was tiny Mono County.

Check out those maps and the rest of the election database.

—Shelby Grad

Photo: Associated Press

Comments

[Manda]

Born Gay=Follow the Ray
Born Straight=Refuse to Hate
I'm Straight but not Narrow. Prop 8 was discrimination topped with a glob of ignorance.
Someday people will look at Prop 8 as unappealing as Jim Crow laws. The Pro-H8ers will see the shame in their grandchildrens eyes. I just feel bad that were stuck in this 'It's ok to H8' stage right now.
=(

[Khosman]

obamas victory will not end bigotry or hate, because the black ppl are one of the most racist ppl on earth and they will simply bring this forth.

[Barron]

On The Gay Topic We Expect to be quiet most of the time about the subject. HOW IS THAT FOR THE LONGEST TIME PEOPLE WERE SCARED TO ADMIT THAT THEY WERE GAY, WHY I WOULD SAY THAT IN SOME WAY THEY KNEW IT WAS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE LIFE STYLE. GOD CREATED US IN HIS IMAGE AND HIS LIKENESS. IF SOMETHING IS ACCEPTABLE WHY WOULD YOU HAVE TO HIDE IT. EVERYTHING THAT GOD CREATED WORKS ACCORDING FOR THE PURPOSE IT WAS CREATED FOR BUT MAN AND WOMAN. HE COMMANDED MALE AND FEMALE IN EVERY SPECIESTO BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY AND REPLENISH THE EARTH. . WE ARE THE ONLY CREATION THAT GOES AGAINST THE GRAIN OF GOD. FURTHERMORE, IN GAY COUPLING, EXPECIALLY WHERE CHILDREN ARE A PART OF THE UNION, HOW CAN WE ALLOW CHILDREN TO SEE THIS AS AN ACCEPTABLE LIFESTYLE WHEN THEY ARE TOO YOUNG TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE. THEY ALSO SEE THESE RELATIONSHIPS ON TELEVISION. I CALL THIS MIND OBDUCTION, BECAUSE THE CHILD IS EXPOSED TO SOMETHING THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND. THE QUESTION THEN, IS - ARE WE FORCING A GAY LIFESTYLE ON OUR CHILDREN?

[khosro]

i am not gay but don't understand what's the big deal with gays marrying. what a silly arguement that marriage (this unpleasant and generally absolutely miserable experience for the 2 peope involved) should be only between a man and a woman. unless you believe in baseless cocepts such as God and the divinity ...

[Diane]

You're Zealots - get some help!

[JC]

Lisa,

Well said...er um....posted :-D

[Lisa]

People what does the BIBLE, God's WORD, not men, God's Word say about this. A sacred union is between a MAN and WOMAN. Period. end of story

[JC]

Diane,

His values are revealed in his Word. He has spoken to US (all of us) personally through His Word. This issue is not, as you would like to have people believe, about discrimination against a minority class. It is preserving the understanding of marriage (as God established it; you should read Genesis) and it is preserving a standard of morality and values. And, God didn't "physically" write the Bible, but He most certainly DID communicate His Word to us through His scribes. If you don't believe this, then what church do you go to? The Church of Satan (which Anton LaVey founded)?

No, Diane, there are NOT so many interpretations. There are many translations. And Genesis is very clear, "A male shall not lie with a male as one who lies with a female/wife; it is an abomination". Pretty clear and NO rabbi, who knows his Sacred Hebrew, would argue as you are.

Your "pick and choose" argument more aptly applies to YOU, as you are picking and choosing, altering and corrupting God's Word to accommodate your sin.

You need to read Leviticus. The laws are given to the Jews and apply in increasing tiers of purity. However, while the moral laws are given to the sons of Israel, the last verses clearly indicate that ALL the nations who did the things that God was prohibiting the Jews from doing, DEFILED themselves in doing those things. What that means is God considered it a SIN no matter WHICH nation was doing them. And the tiers of applicability are A) Laws that apply to everyone (such as the moral laws), B) Laws that apply to Israel and non-Jews abiding IN Israel, C) Laws that apply to Jews ONLY, D) Laws that apply to the priest tribe of Israel and D) Laws that apply to the High Priest of Israel. Your spouting the "gay propaganda" shows how naive you really are on this issue.

Your Bible tells you that I was not given the job of judge? So, I guess you believe it gives YOU the job of judging, as you are judging all Christians, Mormons and Catholics as being haters. Doesn't sound you like practice what you preach. Nevermind that you are completely rendering the passage incorrectly. You should try reading it again, all the way through. You also seem oblivious to the fact that I am not judging you. I am telling you what God's Word has clearly said on the issue. God has ALREADY MADE the judgment against homosexuality. If I state what the Bible says, I am not the judge, God is. And considering that you call God a liar (and you ARE calling God a liar), I have no doubt that you have NO relationship with Him. No, your god is a little god, named Sappho. I will leave you with what John said in one of his epistles, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." Between the two of us, Diane, I am not the one denying my sin. You are.

[Diane]

JC - Unless you have actually spoken to God and he told you personally that his values are that you must discriminate against a minority group of people will I even give your message any credence. God did not write the Bible, it was written by many different people hundreds of years ago when the Earth and it inhabitants were very different than they are today. There are so many interpretations of the Bible out there how do you choose what to believe? People like you pick and choose what you want to believe. If you take every word so literal then I ask you to to re-read Leviticus and tell me that everything written there must be abided by. If not then convince me that you are speaking directly to God and he has told you what he wants. Sorry JC there are too many holes in your theory. My Bible tells me that you were not given the job of judge or jury so your judgement of me has no merit with me or God. The awesome relationship that I have with God is mine alone and has nothing to do with you. If you want to believe that somehow you are better than me go ahead - but you will have to answer for that the next time you see the big Guy. Your journey through life wearing those blinders does not harm me, you are only hurting yourself.

[JC]

To Diane:

I have tried two times to respond to your post. Apparently the moderator is seeking to protect you from the "emotional 'harm'" of the Truth. Suffice it to say, laws exist to tell people what is acceptable in society. My values are better than yours ONLY because my values are the values that God has communicated to us in His Word. So, really, they are HIS values and, YES, HIS values are better than yours. As someone who claims to go to church, you should actually try reading HIS values and work on conforming your beliefs to HIS Word and not the other way around.

[Diane]

JC - So you are saying we should just sit back and let everyone tell us how to live our lives, that we are nothing compared to you? If I tried to take away your right to attend your church, get married, any of the rights that are 'guaranteed' to you as a citizen by way of the constitution, would you not complain, would you just sit back and let it happen? What makes you better than me? What makes your values any better than mine? You don't know me and don't know how I live my life. I'm college educated, go to church, have an awesome family, never been arrested, volunteer in my community, pay my taxes - what makes you better than me? Did I get to have a say in who you married? Maybe I should get to vote away your marriage, how would you feel? Where is your compassion for your fellow human beings? How does gay marriage hurt you personally? Don't you think there is already too much hate in this world without trying to spread more? Please, just stay out of my life and out of my bedroom and I'll stay out of yours. But as long as you toy with my life, I promise not to go away, I will fight for my constitutional rights, not the phony ones just voted in by Prop 8, but the ones the founding fathers of this country guaranteed me when they drafted and signed into law the Constitution of these United States. I would also appreciate it if the Mormom & Catholic Churches would stay out of my life and tend to their flocks and honor the constitution by not getting mixed up in politics and civic issues.

[JC]

What I find interesting is that all of the "angry" homosexuals and their angry supporters are suggesting that church groups, which supported Proposition 8, should lose their tax status and individuals, who supported Proposition 8, should be targeted for protest and boycot and harrassment, etc.

Considering that one of the arguments that supporters of Proposition 8 were making centered around the concern that - if Proposition 8 failed - homosexual activists would use their "equal" status (for marriage) to force their values upon everyone else AND they would use the status to persecute churches and individuals with sincerely held religious beliefs.

Prop 8 won and what is the response from the gay community (and their supporters)? They are attempting to force acceptance of same-sex marriage on people IN SPITE of the fact that Proposition 8 won AND they are attempting to persecute churches AND individuals of sincerely held religious beliefs for supporting and voting for Proposition 8.

All of you homosexual activists and supporters are doing is proving those concerns to be true.

Didn't you "promise" that would "never" happen?

[Diane Singleton]

Yup - your holier than though attitude makes me nauseated. I do follow God, along with his words that one shall not judge another, that is his job. You and I must not follow the same God though, mine is not so hateful and poisonous as the one you write about. My God is about love. It is not your place to tell me how to live my life, whether I am a Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Atheist or otherwise. I am a tax paying citizen of this country and I should be entitled to all the same rights as all other citizens. The law of this country is based on the constitution and not the Bible. You wanna live by the Bible, be my guest, I'm not trying to stop you, but don't try to push it on me, just like I won't try to make you marry a gay person - deal?

[Juli]

I think it all comes down to the fact that we're a democracy and the majority voted. If you want someone to blame, don't blame all of the Christian faiths who have donated money. Blame the 50%+ of your friends and neighbors who checked the box yes. They didn't do it blindly, they wanted marriage to be defined as a union between one man and one women. Maybe they didn't want to get destroyed like Sodom and Gomorrah when they participated in homosexual activity.

[ReadYourBible]

This comment is for "Yup"...First of all, it is not "your" personal God and the Bible was not written just for "you" specifically. I am constantly amazed by people who proclaim to be Christians, but preach a form of hate. What is more, they turn others away from Gods word, something you should never do. Yes, homosexuality is a sin and so is lying, judging, not loving your neighbor as yourself, not loving God with all your heart, etc. Guess what? You too have done some of these things and deserve the wrath of God because of it. All men fall short of the Grace of God. And remember Grace is an "undeserved gift" from God. Thus, you have no right to judge another human either by faith or in life. You would be surprised, but some of those people with whom you believe are not saved, actually are saved. Salvation is given through the Grace of God, no person can save themselves like so many want to believe. The Bible is very clear on the "elect" and the "elect" will be a peculier people from all walks of life. Sin is inevitable in all of us and this is why Jesus is so important in our lives; he died for our sins. But belief in Jesus can only come from God's grace as man naturally has hostility toward God and Jesus. Good can only be done through God; no man does good in the flesh without God. Thus, from this, we can conclude that no one truly knows who is "saved" and who is not for the Bible is clear on the man who "boasts" of his salvation is not necessarily the man who is actually "saved". For to be in salvation is to understand that all of us are falling short every day of our lives and we need to keep in Gods word as much as possible, to love each other as much as possible, and for those who know the "truth" to pass this "truth" on and expose people to the Bible when we can as a good thing, not to preach hate. It is not your place nor anyone elses place here on earth to do such a thing and to think that you should is to take on a power that is "God like" and only belongs to God himself. With this said, I truly believe a real Christian is one who would not take the Bible in part, but in totality as no man is to add to or take away from Gods word. So for those who purely argue "homosexuality" as a sin, you need to wake up, as many things are proclaimed to be sins in the Bible and instead of focusing on another's sins; I suggest we all focus on our own. After all, a true Christian knows this life is not about our time on earth, but rather our time in Heaven with God.

[Judy]

I just want to say for all of those people who voted "yes" on the ban for gay marriage, you are indeed eliminating rights and to prove my point; I would like to vote via a new Proposition on a ban for heterosexual couples right to divorce. I think we should eliminate the right because of several things: (1) it's against God and the Bible says so; (2) it is ruining the sanction of marriage; (3) it is permitting heterosexual couples with children to separate thereby causing the child or children to not have both a mother and a father at all times; (4) it is being taught in some schools and this is wrong; and (5) the divorce rate is approx. 60% suggesting that too many people are getting divorced. Somehow, I bet your thinking would change if gay people overwhelmingly voted "Yes" on a ban for divorce thereby eliminating the heterosexual right to get divorced. Really, look at the facts, it's almost the same exact thing. I mean why should heterosexual people complain if this ban passes; we have a good reason and if all of the gay population were to vote "yes" on this ban it means we are being Christian and good since heterosexual people shouldn't be getting divorced anyway, your Bible tells you so. And if gay people vote "yes" on the ban and it passes; heterosexual people have no reason to fight this in court I mean only heterosexual people can get married in the first place, and in order to preserve the sanction of marriage, you need to stick it out no matter how bad your marriage is. Sorry! If this happened we would see heterosexual people rioting everywhere complaining about their rights and how dare gay people take them away, especially via a majority vote on a Proposition where gay people can't understand what it means to be married to begin with, right? But those gay people aren't loosing any rights...oh no. Now, if you think this scenario is ridiculous so is your vote on "yes" on the ban for gay marriage. Also, for those of you arguing how legalized gay marriage will ruin the sanction of marriage as indicated above; heterosexual people have done a fantastic job at accomplishing this already, no need to get gay people involved. And as far as your arguments regarding family and how perfect things are in heterosexual homes, we both know it is a bunch of lies. If we were to poll most heterosexual homes with children we would find: (1) a majority of homes with a parent that has a substance abuse problem (either alcohol or other); (2) verbal or physical abuse to children conducted by one parent typically the father; and/or (3) one parent who is presently having an affair on their spouse. Ask around, most homes (unfortunately) are not the "Leave it to Beaver" families that many heterosexual people might like to think they are and this has nothing to do with gay people. So I don't even want to hear about how perfect you think the sanction of marriage and family presently is because we both know this level of perfection doesn't even exist in our society, which is why "Leave it to Beaver" is a TV Show...it's make believe!

[Yup]

Kimberly, sounds like you are the one playing God. You talk like you know God by saying how he loves everyone, and that is true. But dont you know what the bible says about homosexuality? You might, but of course you probably dont want to acknowledge that part because it will go against your opinions about gay marriage. So of course you believe they should get married, because you are liberal. God doesnt make mistakes but the bible does say we are all born as sinners. And what is homosexuality? Oh my its a sin according to the bible. And I hear they are born that way...which I believe to. We all will be born with sin in our nature, it is your duty to change that here on Earth. And Gays should NOT be bashed at all, I dont approve of that either. I treat my Gay friends equal as far as friendships go. Doesnt mean I have to turn against God and support all that they do. My God still comes first. But we can be friends reguardless of anything else. I think this will be my last response on this comment section. I hope everyone that reads this gets their facts straight, and if they talk about the bible, KNOW your bible. Especially the people who say they are Christian and support gay marriage, that totally makes no sense according to the word.

[Yup]

Thanks Diane. Typical response. I am narrow minded. Actually I do look at the situation on both sides. Thanks for your incorrect assumption though. I also have gay friends, some of which who dont believe in gay marriage as well. WOW! So I am not judgemental or narrowminded. I follow God, which is to much for you I guess. When the text is in your face about homosexuality and you choose to disobey, you clearly show the God of self in you. Jump on the bus full of people who believe they have a better way of how marriage works other than God. And if you want to talk about the world not running on the bible, then leave it alone and stop taking stuff out of it and trying to change it into ways God disapproves of. Talk about insulting people of the faith. Marriage is biblical and was there before America. God wont recognize it, so once again you defeat the purpose. God loves us all, your right. and he sends no one to hell. You send yourself there by choosing to be against the laws of God. Now instead of assuming that I believe the world revolves around my system, just know I am protecting marriage and I have that right to, with good reason, and if you hate me for that, I still love you.

[Get it Right]

Dear boo freakin hoo,
I don't wish to anger you, but as a historian, I feel you should check your history. While you make a point that both Mormons and Jewish peoples have had death orders placed on them because of their religious beliefs, homosexuals had a death order as well in Nazi Germany, and by most estimates, up to 15,0000 Homosexuals were put into concentration camps. True, it wasn't as large a number as the members of the Jewish community who were put to death, but one must consider, that the Jewish community was also quite a bit larger than the Homosexual one.
If you are going to use historical arguments in your reasons for bigotry, please make sure that they are accurate ones.

Get it Right

[kimberly Nez]

Who are any of you to play god with someone elses life, I completly and passionetly believe that if gay and lesbien people want to get married and have families why the hell shouldn't they, they are people just like you and me they bleed the same color. they cry and get mad just like us....God dont make mistakes does he? These people are born this way some hide it because of people like you, do you think if people could choose at the beginning they would choose to be gay bashed and talked about. These are human beings that should have the rights of others, I have several friends that are gay and lesbien and they are no different than I am. This pisses me off. God loves all of us no matter what are color or religion or who we prefer to sleep with. people are afraid of what they dont understand. we need to make these people understand that god made us and he dont make mistakes...My heart goes out to all of the gay and lesbiens around the world that thought they could come to america because we are the land of the free..just to find out that we are just as ignoant and close minded and the next republican.......I hope all of you get a chance to expirence what I'm able to.....I truly am sorry. * Kimberly Nez in Utah and definetly not mormon......*

[Diane Singleton]

I totally disagree with Yup - the world does not run by the Bible, the laws do not come from the Bible, not everyone believes in the same God and some so not believe at all - why should the world revolve around just your belief system? The world is a diverse place, not like the narrow mindedness of some. Stop trying to rule the world.

[gerryb]

i am a straight woman who has been married for forty five years and am so saddened that everyone does not have that same right. i would hope by now people would stop judging others. please check out keith obermans show on nov. 10th, his thoughts were beautiful on this subject.

[Yup]

One nation under God. Correct. And God is against homosexuality. Correct. And God will not recognize gay marriage no matter if any proposition passes. If we were all gay we would eliminate the human race because there would be no children. Correct. Many people who say they are Godly, create their own God to benefit their ways by believe parts of the bible, and ignoring the rest (about homosexuality) Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper." During our time on Earth we are suppose to defeat the sin in our life so that we can enter heaven. Your test is NOW, but hollywood is playing with our mind using tactics that Adolf Hitler used to make something considered sinful and evil to God, look beautiful and loving and to accept who we are even if it is against Gods will, but the bible says we are born as sinners, it is your duty to walk the right path.. Will we listen to God or Hollywood? ‘Shout loudly with all your strength! Sound the alarm! Tell my people about the wrong things that they have done. Tell them how they have neglected to obey my commands. They are so proud of the way that they practice their religion. They come to the Temple every day. They are glad to hear the words of my laws that somebody reads. (Although they do not think that they should bother to obey them.) In fact, they consider my commands to be of no importance. But how eager they are to give me honour in the proper manner! How they love all that happens in the Temple!’ God bless America and especially California.

[Emily Trefethen]

This is a response to the post by equality. I am a Mormon. I loved reading your post. I have been so sad at all the hatred being spread around towards you and towards me. (I must articulate however that I do not in anyway feel our plights are equal, I know what you must go through is much more difficult and painful!) While I support proposition 8 I have felt that that alone is not enough. I think you make such a compelling argument about equal rights and the 1400 that are associated with the word marriage. You should have the same rights. It is imperative for our country to heal and find a mutually respectful solution to this problem. Most responses I read do not explain either side rationally or respectfully. I want you to know that your respectful post has lifted my spirits because I am deeply concerned for my sister who loves her partner very much and I do want them to have the same rights that I am afforded with my husband. All of my Mormon friends that I have talked with feel the same way as I do. If there was legislation that would support that in a another way besides changing the definition of marriage I would and will support it 100%! Is it possible for this to be enough I wonder? Will the homosexual community feel like this is equality while the religious community will not feel their religious beliefs being threatened? This I do not know, but I pray for daily!

[Huw Davies]

It makes me feel very angry that straight people feel they can make decisions for Gay people.

The vote should be re-run but with only Gay Americans voting because this is the group that is affected by this law.

Hearing all the religious arguments makes my blood boil. If a gay person is atheist or a non Christian religion what the heck gives the Church the right to interfere with their lives. Christians didn’t invent marriage for goodness sake.

I have a vacation (previously) booked to California this holiday season so I'm going to use the time to educate as many of those 52% people as I can who believe that it is ok to push their beliefs on to other people.

Huw- The Netherlands

[Mike]

I agree, there should be a separation between church and state. But now the state was trying to mess with the church by taking there sacred marriage from them. It works both ways.

As said previously, It should be taken to court and should be put under something like but not limited to, civil unions, domestic partnership and whatever. Just not marriage. The gays should be intitled to all privlages that the marriages come with.

[Jane Don]

This is a case where the GLBT community got ahead of itself and was foolishly overconfident. I knew months ago that Prop 8 would be defeated and frankly I'm happy about it. Flies are caught with honey and not vinegar. The GLBT community has an "in your face" approach which mandates acceptance in lieu of being labeled a "bigot" or " closed minded". Anyone who dares to question why someone who wants to be a man would keep her uterus and get pregnant, is insulted by the members of this community. We must all go along with the freak show parade that has been created by the "pregnant man". As a medical professional, I find the very term laughable. So too would anyone who knows the details of male and female anatomy and reproduction. Now we are all reading about the violent protests in California, the blaming of minorities ( especially Blacks) for the passage of Prop 8 and the harassment of the Mormon temples and Catholic churches. The genius Melissa Etheridge has brought up the idea of not paying taxes. I'm loving it all. There are none so blind as those who will not see that this is not the way to go about convincing others that you are to be taken seriously. And at the end of the day, seriously! Marriage is between a man and a woman. Have your civil unions or whatever, but leave marriage alone. The LGBT community is a minority community for a very good reason. There can never be such a thing as a same sex marriage.Accept it the same way you would if Prop 8 had lost. You guys aren't looking too bright right about now.

[Anne G. CANADA]

Come to the north my friends....CANADA loves you.

[really?]

what happened to the separation of church and state? sure many religious people oppose gay marriage. but , you know what, it doesnt really concern them, unless they have a gay marriage. i'm straight, but it makes me very angry that the government has the right to choose who you can marry. i think that gay people should not pay their taxes. if you dont have all of the rights that other citizens have, are you really a citizen? why should you have to pay for a government that discriminates against you?

[Mike]

Look! some of you think Mormons were the main cause of this! The Gay community along with Newsom caused this! I have no problem with you guys being together. I have a problem with you guys trying to use the word marriage. It has been taught in the religious community that marriage is between a man and a woman. A lot of religious people hold that sacred. And now your trying to take that right from them. For every right that is given, another is taken away.

A better way to have the right is to use a different word. But still have all the rights as a married couple does. I do believe that you are intitled to those rights. I do feel bad that it did pass, but felt it was brought about the wrong way.

[Bobby Jones]

"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 to heterosexuals. This doesn't mean God doesn't love heterosexuals, it's just that they need more supervision." - Author Unknown

[Sonia Martinez-Romaih]

It's all about the word "marriage". To religious, straight people the word "marriage" is sacred. Why do gays and lesbians insist on calling their unions "marriage"? When we all know that "that which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet.". I know this may sound crazy but I would venture had the courts approved "civil unions" with all the benefit of being married - there would have been no Proposition 8. The problem is that gays and lesbians whether they admit it or not want to belong to the middle American white married couple club when they haven't been invited to join and never will be. I would think it would be more important to obtain the rights married couples have without the label.

[Dora Glasberg]

Religion has inflicted
more horrors on this planet
than can be catalogued here.

[lil c]

i believe that all gay and lesbians couples/people should be able to express theirselves ..and have a family like everyone else..we are people too...we are no harm to others...!!!

[JT]

It's funny how the GLBT community is throwing a tantrum like a two year old. You were defeated. Get over it. If you had won, you would have expected everyone to abide by the vote, right? Well, Democracy isn't something you rely on just when it goes your way. The people have spoken. Move on.

[curlz]

what diffrence does it make to these people.....I mean, why should it have to be such a big deal. people are so weird, what the hell are they so afraid of. that the gays are going to take over and "convert" them. so stupid. live and let live....i mean, it shouldn't be illegal to love someone and to be able to commit to that person no matter what. there was a time when a white person cannot marry a black person. look around people, times have changed it's time to evolve. and what the hell are you basing your vote on....religion, is this the same religion you banned from your school. ....don't be a hatter, equal rights for everybody, that means everybody.

[stynium]

Hanfrina: I AGREE..

Make a proposition to tax the MORMON CHURCHES who MADE THE PROPOSITION. Hit them hard where it counts. Wake up!

Gay from Singapore.

[Diane Singleton]

Merriam Webster defines marriage as such: 1 a (1): the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2): the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage b: the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c: the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
2: an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected ; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities
3: an intimate or close union

Nowhere do I see the word sacred, holy, from God, etc. Marriage is a civil contract between two people - period. If marriage is so religiously sacred - why are atheists and agnostics allowed to marry? Also, if marriage is so sacred why do married people so abuse it?

The argument to ban gay-marriage because of religious belief is weak at best, and saying that it opens the door to other things only muddies the water and does not address the real issue of equal rights for every citizen of a democratic society. If the US was ruled by a religious entity with laws and a constitution that mandated religious beliefs, then I'd understand that position. But, the US is not a religious enitity, it is a civil society with a constitution that is supposed to guaranatee equality to every person - not just those of a religious persuasion. The constituition states that no law can be passed by the people that discriminates against the fundamental rights of other individuals or groups. The fact that the hateful, discriminatory Prop 8 was passed by a vote of the people was unconstitutional - hopefully in the near future a just democratic society will realize this and right a terrible wrong.

Its sad that the day this country achieved a monumental victory, hate still raised it's ugly head. The one step forward that was achieved on Tuesday means nothing as we took two steps back in voting for hate and fear in California, Arkansas, Arizona and Florida. When will this country learn that hate is not a value we can afford. There are bigger worries in a world where thousands die daily because of ignorance, hate and intolernace. Why can't we as a nation transcend this culture of hate and embrace the values of love, respect and tolerance?

[boo freakin hoo]

If all the celebs and gays are so upset by all of this, then move to Boston, Mass. Take your hate, your ignorance, and go get "married" there. You all cry over the fact that you lost "civil rights", but the truly educated know that civil unions, which are still valid, provide the SAME rights as marriage. I am sorry if you do not find the term "civil union" as pleasant as marriage, but if it is anything else other than a MAN and a WOMAN, it cannot be called marriage.

For the ignorant protestors who are picking on the Mormons...don't forget that besides the Jews, the Mormons are the only other religious group who had an extermination order called out against them. You want to talk about persecution? Boo hoo, you cannot call your unions marriage...come talk to me when the government passes an extermination order against your life.

[jodi lee]

I guess the question is, What do we do next?
Im from australia, and if your guys in the all-powerfull US of A cant get some equality, how are we here going to expect our little butt-sniffing Prime Minister to change his thinking.

Doesnt it just make you wanna scream

[Sympathetic]

Equality -- thanks for your thorough and well written explanation on the differences in rights received in marriage as opposed to domestic partnership. I really sympathize with your (and other gays) quandry and think you're absolutely right when you say there should be another name for marriage that would give you the same rights as everyone else, without offending those that consider the word 'marriage' sacred. I don't live in a state where there were any ballot measures such as Prop 8, but if I did, I would certainly vote against it. Best wishes to you.

[J Russell]

Yes!!! This is exactly what I was thinking.
Okay, so if we are not treated as equal citizens, why should we pay taxes?

The fact of the matter is that the government should not leave a matter of rights up to the people. If the government had allowed voters to decide about segregation and slavery, can you imagine the result?

[To Equality]

While I can appreciate your argument, I still believe that redefining the meaning of Marriage does put us on a slippery slope. Once the line is moved, that opens the door for us to keep moving it to satisfy the whims of the next group. Granting marriage rights seems harmless enough, but that is not where the story will end. I do agree that civil unions should include the other rights of marriage.

The LA unified school district policies regarding gender identity confirms to me that this is moving in the wrong direction. If a boy desires to be known as a girl, the school must abide by that. Including calling the student by his female name, using female pronouns and they also have the discretion to allow him (oh, excuse me, HER) to use the female facilities, such as the locker room and girls bathroom. So, who's rights are being trampled on? His or the other people that have to redefine everything to satisfy his desires, the girls who have to share their lockerrooms with him? The teachers who can be disciplined for calling him "he"? Let him be gay, that's his own business, but forcing everyone to play this game of pretending he's a girl is not a "right" though apparently in Los Angeles and San Francisco it has been deemed to be one. Face it, calling a Toyota a Corvette doesn't make it so, no matter how badly you want it to be true.

And as an African American, I whole heartedly disagree with the comparison of homosexuality to race.

[eddie]

amazing to me that a convicted murderer on death row has the right to marry but not me.folks its homophopia,flat out.you dont believe in gay marriage,then dont marry a gay person!we will win,the law and the constitution are on our side,and gays are alot tougher than you phobics realize.i dont believe in relegion,so i dont go to church,i dont call for the abolishment of it.

[Josh]

I see a lot of discussion about rights here, but fail to see what actual 'rights' are taken from gay people by the passing of Proposition 8. I don't see anybody advocating different drinking fountains for gay people or making gay people sit at the back of the bus.

In fact, according to the ACLU, ALL rights extended to married couples are extended to domestic partnerships except for those rights which are federally derived. In the case of the federally derived rights, "Right now, the federal government wont let any state extend these federal benefits to same-sex couples, no matter what the relationship is called." Check it out:

http://www.aclu.org/getequal/rela/california.html

Oh, and by the way, notice how heterosexuals are not allowed to enter into domestic partnerships. Discrimination or definition?

[Carol J. Merletti]

My heart goes out to Melissa, Tammy, Ellen and her wife, and to each of the 18,000 same-sex couples who were recently married. As a Massachusetts justice of the peace, who has married many gay and lesbian couples, I am saddened to hear that California voters have chosen to ban same-sex marriage in their state. This is truly disheartening.

When gay marriage became law in Massachusetts, the sky did not fall down upon us, nor would it have fallen on California. What was done to these couples was done out of ignorance, and while I cannot do anything to undo the sadness that they must be feeling at this time, I will do whatever I can do to help them.

Every time I marry a couple who is in love regardless of the color of their skin, religion, or being gay or straight, I go home to my husband (Yes. I am straight and I am married!) and son feeling great about myself because I made another couple in love happy. That is what love is all about. I love what I do. Marrying people, no matter who they are, gives me a sense of pride. I believe that this reflects on my website at www.weddingofyourdesire.com. Look at the diversity of the couples in the photos. That is what it is all about. Why people cannot see past that is beyond me. Shame on California voters!

Same-sex couples must stay the course and continue to fight the fight. While they shouldn’t have to do this, they should go to a state where gay marriage is legal and get married. I proudly say that I for one would be very happy to officiate the nuptials of any same-sex couple who comes to Massachusetts. Their marriage may only be recognized in Massachusetts and Connecticut as legal, but at least it will be a legal marriage. The downside of this will indeed be a result of a loss of revenue for California as Melissa said, but the upside of this is that perhaps this may make voters think twice by reversing Proposition 8.

Carol J. Merletti
Wedding of Your Desire
www.weddingofyourdesire.com

[Liz in CA]

Wow, Bernard Sussman, you sound like you're the go-to expert on prison relationships. Your family must be so proud of you.

[Dan]

Bernard . . . I'm pretty sure Melissa isn't serious. She was just trying to make a point. It doesn't seem fair to deny someone a right but then expect them to pay the same taxes. However, we're not morons--we know we still have to pay taxes.

Harry in LA . . . I think the real argument is that the Supreme Court spoke--marriage ISN'T only between a man and a woman--and YOU can't deal with it.

You should both read the post above by "Equality." And I don't mean skim through it with a closed mind. I mean really read it and try to put yourself on the other side for a moment.

I fully respect your religious and personal beliefs, but there is a separaration of church and state in this country, so you really can't use the Bible to defend the definition of marriage. Marriage means a lot to each of us, and it means differenet things to each of us. But at the end of the day, it is a legal document that provides certain rights. There is no religion involved in that.

[Kirk]

I think its now time for the Gay strike my friends Florists, Wedding Planners, Wedding Bands, Jewlers, Dress Designers, Hair Stylists to stand up and JUST SAY NO until this is OVERTURNED

[Bernard J. Sussman]

If Melissa Etheridge has her way, many thousands of California gay men and lesbians will end up being prosecuted for tax evasion.

And when they refuse to pay their taxes, they'll be sent to jail. The gay men will be locked up with other gay men. The lesbians will be locked up with other lesbians.

I am sure the prospect of such a dire punishment will be a persuasive deterrent.

[rassick]

Im deeply upset that America has taken a huge step in the wrong directions by stripping thousands of its citizens of equal civil liberties. "One nation under god"? except if your gay, i take it they will be editing the pledge of allegence.

My thoughts are with all of those beautiful couples who married and are now left in a legal limbo.

A friend from Ireland

[Franc]

Unfortunately you really have to call this one: 70% of the African-Americans voting for Barrack Obama and a bridge to the end of discrimination in America elected to enshrine gay-hate into the California State Constitution. Apparently African-Americans think it's okay to discriminate so long as they are not the ones being discriminated against.

[Equality]

TO ALL WHO DO NOT SUPPORT GAY MARRIAGE:

I think you're good people, like me. I pay my taxes that support my schools and religious institutions so they can give back to the community. I don't hurt anyone and only try to help. I oppose people who try to infringe on religious freedoms, and I don't seek to infringe upon what "marriage" means to you. I appreciate that most of you DO approve of 'domestic partnerships' and 'civil unions' for gay people, but please listen to why that doesn't work.

The federal government gives married people about 1000 rights. The state gives them about 400 additional rights. The reason the government is involved in marriage at all is to promote and protect stable, happy families as basic units of society. Obviously marriage is not solely for procreation, as we do not remove that right from you if you are infertile, elderly, or choose not to have children. When you marry, you are automatically entitled to those 1400 rights, including the right to visit a spouse in the hospital, be added to your spouse's insurance policies, acquire property with your spouse and automatically inherit it if your spouse dies, and many more. These 1400 rights are not simply and easily written up in a single civil document, nor always enforceable; for instance, a person under a state's domestic partnership can't force the IRS to give him the tax breaks afforded to married couples. It is extremely complex and doesn't always work; I am aware of gay people whose partners died and the deceased's hostile family successfully asserted their ownership of everything in spite of the contract, leaving the survivor destitute. Imagine children being involved, and a deceased partner's hostile family takes your children from you because your civil contract didn't stand up in court proving you were next of kin! In Arkansas, the majority just voted to prohibit unmarried people from adopting, meaning a gay person can't even adopt their partner's children to ensure that if their partner dies the children will remain with the surviving parent they love!

'Civil unions' and 'domestic partnerships' permit OSTENSIBLY most of the 400 state-afforded rights of married couples, but NONE of the 1000 federal ones, and I can tell you from personal experience that the state ones are NOT equal. Just one example is that to get on my partner's insurance policy, we had to provide my certificate of domestic partnership, copies of financial records proving we had co-mingled finances and lived in the same home for at least two years, and more. If I died, my partner would have to wait at least two years to add her new partner to the policy to prove the relationship was 'real'. Married people don't even need to provide a copy of a marriage license, and if their spouse died today, they could add a new spouse tomorrow. This is only one example out of MANY.

Other rights are specific to helping children of married people, including ensuring automatic inheritance rights, the right of a non-blood related parent to pick up a sick child from school, alimony and child support to help with their care in the event of divorce, and many more. No matter the makeup of the family or how it comes to be -- be it traditional nuclear, or grandparents raising their grandchild, or a blended family resulting from divorced people remarrying, or single parents, or adoptive parents, or childless couples, or gay couples -- ALL of these people deserve the same rights so they have the best chances of happiness and contribution to society.

What I would like to see the FEDERAL government do is create one proto-marriage type of relationship ('civil union'?) that applies equally to all people who want it, including granting them all 1400 of the rights and responsibilities that "married" people currently enjoy, and then simply leave the word "marriage" for religiously-inclined people who want to further consecrate their relationship according to their religions. I think that is what the MAJORITY of us all want. Unfortunately, the federal government is currently leaving the issue to states to decide, so we are stuck wrestling for the one word that currently encompasses all 1400 of those rights, and that word is "marriage". Granting the existing rights encompassed by one word to a minority is a lot easier than changing 1400 laws to encompass them. That's really all there is to it, see?

I understand many of you are afraid that legalizing gay marriage will lead to your children being forced to learn in school that homosexuality is "normal". I will be the first to agree with you that homosexuality is NOT "normal" - the parts don't fit and we can't make babies. But consider that in one out of every 100 live births, a child is born with ambiguous genitalia (intersexed). If God creates 1% of babies that way, why do we then do surgery to "correct" them to one sex or the other and make them "normal"? God made me abnormal too - I'm among the small percentage of people whose wiring is crossed so I'm attracted to my own sex. My abnormality doesn't lead me to hurt anyone. The worst law I've ever broken is the speed limit. Learning that homosexuals exist isn't going to turn any child homosexual, but it will help the small percentage born with this abnormality to feel less alone. That's really the worst that could happen.

As for the slippery slope arguments that legalizing gay marriage will automatically lead to legalizing polygamy or incestuous marriages, those forms of marriage existed throughout most of recorded history but are too impractical or undesirable for the vast majority of Americans to even consider. As for legalizing gay marriage leading to legalizing people marrying pets or children, these can't even give informed consent. Please stay off the slippery slope; the ONLY topic we're asking you to agree on is legalizing gay marriage.

We gay people and our families are being hurt by laws as they stand, and all we are asking for is the concession that the word "marriage" include us so we may enjoy its rights - and responsibilities. I will leave you with the words of Mildred Loving, who wrote this forty years after her 1967 legal case struck down laws barring interracial marriage:

"Surrounded as I am now by wonderful children and grandchildren, not a day goes by that I don't think of Richard and our love, our right to marry, and how much it meant to me to have that freedom to marry the person precious to me, even if others thought he was the "wrong kind of person" for me to marry. I believe all Americans, no matter their race, no matter their sex, no matter their sexual orientation, should have that same freedom to marry."

Peace.

[hanfrina]

... As a former GAY MORMON, who was West Coast Editor of Radio & TV at Billboard Magazine in L.A. ('79), I suggest my fellow LGBT'ers & their supporters start Props to TAX ALL CHURCHES in CALIFORNIA!!! Especially the LDS CHURCH, which used $15-MILLION, to DEFEAT gay marriage!!! WAKE-UP!!!

[Edgar]

Prop 8 is the law. Wether you like it or not !- Newsom.

[M.Bustillos]

California: We give chickens rights, but take away the rights of gay people.

[Harry in LA]

Who cares what these people think.......The Majority of Californians spoke and Marriage is between a Man and a Woman and NOTHING ELSE. NOW DEAL WITH IT.........

[TD]

good for you, Melissa. i would join you if i could.

[Butch]

Mormons = the new American Taliban
We will legislate that all believe as we do!

[Jeff Griffin]

If our state Supreme Court does not step in and do their job, the Stonewall Riots will be forgotten in comparison.

The Equal Protection Clause of our state constitution cannot be simply ignored by amendment, even if a majority of people wish to ignore it.