Prop. 8 protest heats up with charges and counter-charges

If you thought the Prop. 8 protest was cooling down, think again. Here's another effort by backers of gay marriage to focus on one of the big Prop. 8 supporters. From AP:

A California gay rights activist has filed a complaint accusing the Mormon church of failing to report the value of the work it did to support the gay marriage ban. Fred Karger, the founder of Californians Against Hate, submitted the complaint Thursday to the enforcement division of the California Fair Political Practices Commission. Karger alleges that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ran phone banks, produced commercials and provided other services that must be reported as contributions to the Proposition 8 campaign. The initiative, which amends the state constitution to ban gay marriage, was approved by voters this month.

Meanwhile, Yes on 8 forces plan a Friday news conference to decry the "outrageous campaign of blacklisting, harassment, and intimidation against supporters of the Yes on 8 Campaign.  Churches have been defaced.  Employers of donors and volunteers for Yes on 8 have been intimidated into firings, and forced resignation of employees who simply exercised their constitutional right to participate in the political process."

LAist sees signs the street protests are thinning out.

--Shelby Grad   

Comments

[Waldemar PEreira]

Wao! This is the people who caim for tolerance? If the were disagry with Prop. 8, why they call the people to vote???? Why they recognize it????

Gay activist are so violents!!

[echo1]

The reports of "protests thinning out" are incorrect. I was there last night, and several hundred people marched from that block, down Melrose, La Brea, and Beverly.

[John]

These protestors are a bunch of thugs!

[Jim]

Funny, I seem to remember the Yes on 8 camp sending letters to businesses that supported No on 8 threatening them with blacklisting, harassment, and intimidation if they didn't give money to Yes on 8... Nice to know they can dish it out but not take it.

[Ilbert]

I find it amazing that gays would so vindictive. Their conduct clearly demonstrates that they are not a dispossed people if they can get people fired and can get away with defacing houses of worship. I note that they are not attacking churches and synagogues that supported the opposition to Prop 8.

[Sandy Dandy]

All of this just shows gays are too stupid to 1) realize their substantive rights were unaffected by the vote (CA family code sec 297.5) and 2) too selfish, spoiled and indolent to respond appropriately to disagreeing persons.

What do you do when you disagree with your partners? Throw a hissy fit and stomp around?

or maybe you resort to violence and terrorism...way to gain legitimacy...as far as I'm concerned, no group who responds as you have should ever be given power.

[Bayou Vol]

Wow, Jim...that accusation came from left field...making up some more convenient lies are we? please substantiate yourself before spouting off.

[Renee]

Gay activists are thugs or violent? That is such a joke. If you watch the news, it says "PEACEFUL PROTESTS". Gay people are demanding equal rights because that's what we all deserve. They don't tell you who to marry, you should have given them the same respect. Yes on 8 supporters are nothing more than a bunch of bigots. Your numbers are shrinking and the new generation knows it's wrong to hate people just because they are different than you. So enjoy your hatred now because in the future, they will prevail and you will still be an ugly hearted person.

[LaLa]

Ilbert:

Vindictive???? Really????? Sit down for just a second and think about how you would feel if the church and their "sheeple" decided to take away YOUR civil rights. Not everyone on EITHER side of this issue has acted honorably; the majority of the gay and lesbian population is ANGRY and DISAPPOINTED and feel BETRAYED by those people who live with us and gladly accept our contributions to society; including our talents, our businesses, and most especially our tax dollars!!!

Of course they aren't attacking the churches who opposed Prop 8 - THOSE aren't the bigots and discriminators!!!

Yeesh!!

[Joey Melech]

Violence is wrong. Defacing property is wrong. However, there rights have been taken away. I have actually participated in leading a big no on protest last friday in long beach. I'm straight, but I think this is just another excuse to write religion in our constitution. I as a catholic, am appauled by the intolerance other's have shown. I wish they could just give everyone the right to marry, and religious people could just have a symbolic marriage in their own church. Please don't counter me with "WHAT'S NEXT HORSES MARRYING HUMANS?!?!?!". Beastility is totally different, you can not get a horse to consent. I'm sorry but Prop H8te is exactly what it is, hateful and discriminating. Yes it's wrong how some homosexuals are carrying on, but you have to try to put yourself in their position, everyone think's what the African-Americans did was courageous in the 1960's, what's the difference?

[PhilZ]

The Mormon(tax-deductible) church has spent millions fighting gay marriage initiatives across the country. They hate gay people and have taken it upon themselves to deny gay people their civil rights. It should not be suprising when the protests start up and the people start fighting back. A national boycott of the big-spending supporters of Prop 8 is underway and gay people will never give up.

This issue is not going to go away just because a bunch of homophobes run some commercials and scare a narrow majority of the voters into inacting unconstitutional laws. The Mormons should mind their own flock.

[Heather]

To protest the passing of prop 8 is to protest democracy. The people passed it and that is all there is to it. Anyone can give money or time to a cause they feel is worth it- that is a part of our freedom, so complaining that some people gave this or that is ridiculous.

[Jaela]

http://www.america.gov/st/democracy-english/2008/May/20080623194736eaifas0.658703.html

Go there. Read it.

"All democracies are systems in which citizens freely make political decisions by majority rule. In the words of American essayist E.B. White: “Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half the people are right more than half the time.”

But majority rule, by itself, is not automatically democratic. No one, for example, would call a system fair or just that permitted 51 percent of the population to oppress the remaining 49 percent in the name of the majority. In a democratic society, majority rule must be coupled with guarantees of individual human rights that, in turn, serve to protect the rights of minorities and dissenters — whether ethnic, religious, or simply the losers in political debate. The rights of minorities do not depend upon the good will of the majority and cannot be eliminated by majority vote. The rights of minorities are protected because democratic laws and institutions protect the rights of all citizens."

[Randy]

An allegation has been made. It's either true or not true, marching in the streets and starting a culture war is not justified. There are two clearly divided sides and no apparent middle ground. We have a legal system, a democratic initiative process, and rational minds that can determine the facts. Vandalism, blockading places of worship, and constant expressions of rages are not called for. Civil disobedience was demonstrated by Gandhi and Dr. ML King, Jr. It was the British Imperialists and the Southern racists that responded with violence. Yes on 8 advocates are not in the streets creating chaos and police riots. There is a serious misunderstanding of what civil disobedience is among the anti-8 crowd.

[gopman]

llbert writes: "I note that they are not attacking churches and synagogues that supported the opposition to Prop 8."

Is that really a surprise ? Those churches didn't attack them, so why should they attack those churches ?

Remember, what goes around, comes around. The Yes on 8 folks were blackmailing No on 8 supporters before the election. Now, it's time for karma.

[Jhon Centurri]

10,000 people of all persuasions turned out in NYC on Wednesday night. Hardly a "thinning out". Just wait until we really get organized! Yes on 8 bigots will fall and heads are gonna roll.

[Jim]

Bayou Vol,

See http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hZmLBrL36NObNyMR0ghXN7vB5hYwD940GN1G0

[Bruce]

Inevitably what will happen is that -- gay or straight -- all recognized relationships will register as "domestic partnerships" instead of "marriage" and in the spirit of true equality, you will all screw yourselves out of federal tax benefits!

[Jonny]

Let's face it, Mormons have been the targets of much of the protests (though not all). And they have been historically been persecuted, disparaged, and had their civil rights violated many times (have No on 8 supporters ever been invaded by the United States Army?). But the Church, and their members (some of whom very publicly disagreed with what their Church leaders said) felt this was not a wise change for an institution older than any government, even democracy itself. And we believe there is a protection for our society in leaving the current definition as is.

People can say the Mormons are gay-haters. Funny, I am Mormon, I don't hate gays. I don't agree with their actions or lifestyle, but then again I would say the same thing about the female co-worker who I share an office with who is recently divorced and chooses to have many sexual relationships with other men or chooses the bar scene and heavy drinking on the weekends. She knows how I feel about her actions and and I know where she's coming from. We work well together and can even talk about personal stuff together. If she happened to be lesbian or bisexual, same thing. I would still ask how her partner's doing even if believe that marriage is between a man and woman, just as I ask her how her boyfriend is doing even though I believe it best if a sexual relationship should be between a married couple. This is a stand on principle, not an attack on those people who are homosexual. I know right now this comment will be ripped, but I hope many will take it with the sincerity it was written.

And Bruce, if domestic partnerships is what this all comes to, that's fine. I'm not married because of tax benefits (just as I suspect many No on 8 supporters don't feel the way they do because of tax benefits). Maybe that's how our taxes will be raised to pay for the bailout and the TRILLIONS in debt owed by our country, not to mention the BILLIONS in California ;)